think about the kids that drop out of school at 16. In today's society, not only are they screwed academically, but they don't have any skill at all for a trade.
We have the worst possible situation.
My point was that training for a specific career line early in life as opposed to waiting until as late as their late 20's may not necessarily be a bad thing.
__________________ Obama promised up change and hope. He came through on this. Things have CHANGEd for the worse and we HOPE he won't be reelected.
What happens if you change your mind? Predetermining a career path that early can create more problems than it solves. Economic circumstances can change resulting in the vocation someone has been prepping for (or has been in the workplace for ten years) could become obsolete.
That's always the case, no matter what. In that case, we set up retraining. That doesn't seem to be a problem in countries where they do this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grapabeaux
The simpler solution is to motivate the student to plan out an academic and career path and have requirements that they be well-rounded individuals, not mere cogs in the machine.
That is what we are supposedly doing today. It is not working.
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What happens if you change your mind? Predetermining a career path that early can create more problems than it solves. Economic circumstances can change resulting in the vocation someone has been prepping for (or has been in the workplace for ten years) could become obsolete.
The simpler solution is to motivate the student to plan out an academic and career path and have requirements that they be well-rounded individuals, not mere cogs in the machine.
That's a pretty widely held belief here in the US.
As a result our schools are producing well-rounded burger flippers and insurance agents. Meanwhile we are importing doctors engineers and scientists, not to mention electronic goods and just about everything that requires technical skills to manufcture.
think about the kids that drop out of school at 16. In today's society, not only are they screwed academically, but they don't have any skill at all for a trade.
We have the worst possible situation.
It doesn't take skill to ask if people would like fries with their order
__________________
“Freedom of expression is the matrix, the indispensable condition, of nearly every other form of freedom”
-Justice Cardozo.
My point was that training for a specific career line early in life as opposed to waiting until as late as their late 20's may not necessarily be a bad thing.
Or on the flip side, it's a terrible idea. People who went to college during the dot-com bubble studied CompSci due to the perceived demand for such skilled workers, and after the bubble burst what happened to them? People were getting canned, in the period of only four years.
You want to extend this by 1) making the training period longer, thereby increasing the probability that whatever they are preparing for may become useless, less in demand, or even obsolete, and 2) failing to give them a baseline education that would prepare them for other jobs, thereby essentially delegating upon them a set of skills they will be hard-pressed to forget (to relearn another trade) because of the tender years at which they studied this trade
The American college education is unique, when compared to other countries' educational systems in that students can become doctors even if they majored in something like Music, and not biology, or they can become derivative traders even if they majored in biomedical engineering, and not economics. Whereas in other countries, students are forced and basically pigeon-holed into their future careers at young ages, we have a system that maximizes future career flexibility. Thus, it is not an aberration in our country to have a lawyer head a hedge fund, or a engineer become a CEO, or even doctors to get a job programming computers. Such a system not only maximizes career flexibility, but introduces new perspectives into industries that might otherwise lack them due to the differing disciplines of the people involved, thereby increasing creativity and innovation.
__________________
“Freedom of expression is the matrix, the indispensable condition, of nearly every other form of freedom”
-Justice Cardozo.
Last edited by Zanger; November 3rd, 2009 at 10:43 pm.
Whether we actually go to a German system or not, I think there is a pressing need for students to think about their future at a younger age. I teach in a rural school district, with a pretty weak academic record. Few students go straight to a four year college, even fewer go to a competitive one. The majority of our students continue to live at home after graduation. About 50% of our college bound seniors go straight to the community college down the road, but only a few of them make it through. I teach freshman. Most of them have no clue what they want to do for a living. I didn't either at that age, but at least I was motivated to get into a good college so I would have a lot of options. Most of my freshman are only aiming for the local community college, which only requires a HS diploma. So a large number of our kids are only aiming to get a 65. There's a huge difference between the effort and skills required to get a 65 in high school, and what it takes to make it through even a community college. By the time kids decide they might want to go somewhere better, they are already too far behind, and they already have too many years of poor grades. We do have a Vo-tech program, and while that is usually for the weaker academic students, we often find their their work ethic does not improve when in a vocational environment. They are lazy in the classroom, they are lazy in the shop class.
So we need to do something to wake these kids up, let them know that it's competitive out there, and they are going to have to learn to do something good enough that someone would be willing to pay them to do it. Of course, I have the kids explain to me, "Why work harder, my parents make minimum wage, and we get our apartment paid for, our food paid for, we've got all we need, and my parents drive a nicer car than you" tough to argue with that. I agree that if you've got the work ethic, you will be ok even if you start your career track late. But we're starting on a career track late, without the work ethic.
My kids went to German school for a few years when they were young. My biggest problem with the system is that the kids are separated at such a young age. Then you are either smart and go to Gymnasium or you are dumb and go to the num-num school. What about those who are late bloomers? They have already been labeled less intelligent and in this case, it often becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
My kids went to German school for a few years when they were young. My biggest problem with the system is that the kids are separated at such a young age. Then you are either smart and go to Gymnasium or you are dumb and go to the num-num school. What about those who are late bloomers? They have already been labeled less intelligent and in this case, it often becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
I wonder just how many kids that is though. Kids who are slower or less motivated earlier in their education, but academically kicking butt later on in HS or college. I know judging from my schools honor roll, that most kids who don't make honor roll as a freshman or sophmore, don't make it as a junior or senior. Typically it goes the other way, where our junior and senior lists are shorter than the freshman and sophmore lists. My perception is, most of the students grades is effort. A less skilled kid who really sticks with it, is generally at least able to get a B in our system. I would think especially so if they had the deadline for the split looming, the motivated kids would find a way to get where they needed to be on time. And if they really can't, then they probally shouldn't be in the same class as the more elite students.
And if done properly, putting someone in a vocational track isn't a punishment. My brother in law tried to do the academic track, ended up working at Subway until he was 25. Then he went to a technical college for two years, now he makes more than I do. If he had been put in the technical track earlier, he could have been making that kind of money a lot sooner.
As a teacher, I see no educational benifit to having a student with a 40% average sitting in the same classroom as the kids who are actually trying to get A's and B's. The only reason they make that kid sit in the classroom all year long, is because they have no where else to put them. But no one can explain to me the educational benifit to that student, and to the other students in the room.
Obama promised up change and hope. He came through on this. Things have CHANGEd for the worse and we HOPE he won't be reelected.
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