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  1. #1
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    Default Can God...?

    Raise the dead? Any exceptions if your answer is yes? Why not if your answer is no?

    I'm going somewhere with this question but I'm curious first as to who commits to what answer...
    They're not terrorists. They're just people bitterly clinging to their guns and Qurans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by optrader View Post
    So what would you know of God if there wasn't a written record of God, Jesus and his life that people could read and study and pass to you orally or by writing books of their own? How would you even know to search for the truth and existence of the one true God if such a record didn't exist?
    It is good to keep in mind that this written record was not written by God. It is a record of people's testimonies of God--and most were presented in story form--and eventually written down by people who heard the story from an earlier generation. There is nothing wrong with story form and much to commend. There is no need to limit ourselves to stories. Data presentation is sometimes as dry as dust, but it, too, is informative. Which would people prefer to read, which will they remember best?




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  5. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriweather View Post
    It is good to keep in mind that this written record was not written by God. It is a record of people's testimonies of God--and most were presented in story form--and eventually written down by people who heard the story from an earlier generation. There is nothing wrong with story form and much to commend. There is no need to limit ourselves to stories. Data presentation is sometimes as dry as dust, but it, too, is informative. Which would people prefer to read, which will they remember best?
    Its their testimony. Their witness right? Who are you to cross examine them in the context of Evolution?

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  7. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by optrader View Post
    I know it's futile to try and get answers out of you, but what the heck, I'll try again.

    How do you know what you know about God? Let me put this question in this framework: I never met Abraham Lincoln. I've never met anyone who met or knew Abraham Lincoln. I've never seen interviews on TV or you tube of people who met or knew Abraham Lincoln. Know why? Because Lincoln, and everyone who did know or meet him is dead! All I, or you know of Lincoln comes from WRITTEN, and thanks to a relatively new technology, photographic record of his life, which is READ and studied by people who orally have passed it to you, or have themselves written newer books based on other WRITTEN things about him which you, in turn have read.

    I'm going out on a limb here and asserting that God has not granted you an interview, directly whispered in your ear or sent an eyewitness of his existence and life in Heaven to give you first hand knowledge of and proof of his existence. Anything intellectualy dishonest about this?

    So what would you know of God if there wasn't a written record of God, Jesus and his life that people could read and study and pass to you orally or by writing books of their own? How would you even know to search for the truth and existence of the one true God if such a record didn't exist?

    I'd be glad to reason further if you care to, I started this thread to reason with believers. With your anti Baptist bias and IRYW's anti Christian bias, reasoning seems an uphill battle.
    Lol. There's a lot of **** written down that you don't believe. Do you believe in Zeus? Of course you dont. Because science explains thunder and lightning. There are 100s of religious texts that claim the truth. But, no, only your mythological God is real because it's "written down". Do you really just blindly accept written text? Or do you back up what you believe with concrete evidence?

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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImRightYoureWrong View Post
    Lol. There's a lot of **** written down that you don't believe. Do you believe in Zeus? Of course you dont. Because science explains thunder and lightning. There are 100s of religious texts that claim the truth. But, no, only your mythological God is real because it's "written down". Do you really just blindly accept written text? Or do you back up what you believe with concrete evidence?

    Case in point: the theory of evolution.

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  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriweather View Post
    It is good to keep in mind that this written record was not written by God. It is a record of people's testimonies of God--and most were presented in story form--and eventually written down by people who heard the story from an earlier generation. There is nothing wrong with story form and much to commend. There is no need to limit ourselves to stories. Data presentation is sometimes as dry as dust, but it, too, is informative. Which would people prefer to read, which will they remember best?
    We've covered this point somewhat in other threads. Of course I'm aware that God did not write the Bible in the same sense that he wrote the ten commandments, but "ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED BY GOD..." Every word of it! God could produce a book on the spot, but like in most things, God prefers to use people to accomplish his purpose. 1 Corinthians 1:21 comes to mind " For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."

    The Bible is only for believers to begin with. I've been going back and forth with a non believer, I do that at times knowing it's ridiculous. Of course when science is all you have to make sense of things, you have to defend it at all costs--- IT MUST BE RIGHT!! But as a believer Meri, I ask you, and all other believers: how can you explain ANY miracle in the Bible and make it possible with what we know of science? I started this thread with a simple question- CAN GOD? Your answer is yes---- BUT SCIENCE!!.... The foolishness of the world is to turn to it's own wisdom and knowledge and while science has brought us many great things, it has also been the greatest tool the world has used to proclaim THERE IS NO GOD!

    I asked Koushi, knowing full well he'd provide no answer, nor even attempt to answer. When he's stupified, he turns to insults. I'll ask you what I asked him: since God is not the author of confusion nor the father of lies, who benefits by the lie of creation which casts doubts on the power of God?(I'll add, as recorded by Moses)
    They're not terrorists. They're just people bitterly clinging to their guns and Qurans.

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  13. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImRightYoureWrong View Post
    Lol. There's a lot of **** written down that you don't believe. Do you believe in Zeus? Of course you dont. Because science explains thunder and lightning. There are 100s of religious texts that claim the truth. But, no, only your mythological God is real because it's "written down". Do you really just blindly accept written text? Or do you back up what you believe with concrete evidence?
    Many Jews and Gentiles witnessed first hand the power of God wrought by the miracles described in the Bible, yet still didn't believe. I can't do miracles, and in fact,Jesus said no more signs would be given. Even if I could perform miracles, like raising a dead person, I suspect you still wouldn't believe.
    They're not terrorists. They're just people bitterly clinging to their guns and Qurans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by optrader View Post
    We've covered this point somewhat in other threads. Of course I'm aware that God did not write the Bible in the same sense that he wrote the ten commandments, but "ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED BY GOD..." Every word of it! God could produce a book on the spot, but like in most things, God prefers to use people to accomplish his purpose. 1 Corinthians 1:21 comes to mind " For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."

    The Bible is only for believers to begin with. I've been going back and forth with a non believer, I do that at times knowing it's ridiculous. Of course when science is all you have to make sense of things, you have to defend it at all costs--- IT MUST BE RIGHT!! But as a believer Meri, I ask you, and all other believers: how can you explain ANY miracle in the Bible and make it possible with what we know of science? I started this thread with a simple question- CAN GOD? Your answer is yes---- BUT SCIENCE!!.... The foolishness of the world is to turn to it's own wisdom and knowledge and while science has brought us many great things, it has also been the greatest tool the world has used to proclaim THERE IS NO GOD!

    I asked Koushi, knowing full well he'd provide no answer, nor even attempt to answer. When he's stupified, he turns to insults. I'll ask you what I asked him: since God is not the author of confusion nor the father of lies, who benefits by the lie of creation which casts doubts on the power of God?(I'll add, as recorded by Moses)
    Now you’re calling the creation story a lie. Good to see you are coming to your senses

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    Quote Originally Posted by optrader View Post
    I asked Koushi, knowing full well he'd provide no answer, nor even attempt to answer. When he's stupified, he turns to insults. I'll ask you what I asked him: since God is not the author of confusion nor the father of lies, who benefits by the lie of creation which casts doubts on the power of God?(I'll add, as recorded by Moses)
    Quite frankly, it is Young Earth Creationists, optrader, who casts doubts on the power of God. Not only are they doubting God, they are doubting the goodness of truth. They not only seem disappointed in the fact creation did not take place in a literal six days, but ashamed it did not happen that way. Disappointed and ashamed of God is their legacy.

    I believe in the power of God, the power of truth. God does not need to create a world and all its contents in a measly six days to prove His power to me. As I've noted before, some of God's best work has been done over time.




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  19. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by optrader View Post
    Many Jews and Gentiles witnessed first hand the power of God wrought by the miracles described in the Bible, yet still didn't believe. I can't do miracles, and in fact,Jesus said no more signs would be given. Even if I could perform miracles, like raising a dead person, I suspect you still wouldn't believe.
    In other words, you believe bible just because "bible says so". Why don't you believe in Zeus?

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  21. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by optrader View Post
    We've covered this point somewhat in other threads. Of course I'm aware that God did not write the Bible in the same sense that he wrote the ten commandments, but "ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED BY GOD..." Every word of it! God could produce a book on the spot, but like in most things, God prefers to use people to accomplish his purpose. 1 Corinthians 1:21 comes to mind " For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."

    The Bible is only for believers to begin with. I've been going back and forth with a non believer, I do that at times knowing it's ridiculous. Of course when science is all you have to make sense of things, you have to defend it at all costs--- IT MUST BE RIGHT!! But as a believer Meri, I ask you, and all other believers: how can you explain ANY miracle in the Bible and make it possible with what we know of science? I started this thread with a simple question- CAN GOD? Your answer is yes---- BUT SCIENCE!!.... The foolishness of the world is to turn to it's own wisdom and knowledge and while science has brought us many great things, it has also been the greatest tool the world has used to proclaim THERE IS NO GOD!

    I asked Koushi, knowing full well he'd provide no answer, nor even attempt to answer. When he's stupified, he turns to insults. I'll ask you what I asked him: since God is not the author of confusion nor the father of lies, who benefits by the lie of creation which casts doubts on the power of God?(I'll add, as recorded by Moses)
    Wow. Still doubling down on your initial fallacy.

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  23. #56

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    Can God create rain? Of course he can then why do we think meteorology is true because Bible doesn't mention it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriweather View Post
    Quite frankly, it is Young Earth Creationists, optrader, who casts doubts on the power of God. Not only are they doubting God, they are doubting the goodness of truth. They not only seem disappointed in the fact creation did not take place in a literal six days, but ashamed it did not happen that way. Disappointed and ashamed of God is their legacy.

    I believe in the power of God, the power of truth. God does not need to create a world and all its contents in a measly six days to prove His power to me. As I've noted before, some of God's best work has been done over time.
    It seems to me Meri, that creating everything in six days is a lot more impressive than starting a process and then stepping back for billions of years and letting things happen. I know you're aware the theory of evolution is less than 200 years and there is absolutely nothing tying God to the theory in any way. It is man that created the theory and much later before any Christians claimed it was started by God. If God truly could have done ad Moses recorded, then his account becomes more than just a story, i.e. something pulled out of a hat to make it interesting. Moses account becomes plausible, and as it is only one of two main explanations accepted, it becomes a fifty- fifty toss up.

    What I'm really curious about is why Moses didn't just tell the truth about evolution? ( IF it was true) Did he come up with creation on his own it did God, who inspired ALL script ure, direct or inspire him to do it? The Bible claims directly that God can not lie but His word, or what many accept as his word, starts with the biggest lie of all " IN THE BEGINNING GOD..." This opening lie casts doubt on the entire rest of the book, yet you claim people who believe what is plainly written is what undermines God's power? I'm disappointed? Ashamed? Hardly...
    They're not terrorists. They're just people bitterly clinging to their guns and Qurans.

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  27. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImRightYoureWrong View Post
    Can God create rain? Of course he can then why do we think meteorology is true because Bible doesn't mention it
    The weather patterns were changed greatly after the flood. Prior to the flood there was no rain. There are many mentions if meteorlogic events throughout scripture. Not really a good example to make your point.
    They're not terrorists. They're just people bitterly clinging to their guns and Qurans.

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  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImRightYoureWrong View Post
    In other words, you believe bible just because "bible says so". Why don't you believe in Zeus?
    If there was evidence of Zeus, and if Zeus sent HIS only begotten son to die to redeem man, you'd have a valid point.
    They're not terrorists. They're just people bitterly clinging to their guns and Qurans.

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  31. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImRightYoureWrong View Post
    In other words, you believe bible just because "bible says so". Why don't you believe in Zeus?
    Now if you'd said Thor, that would be different because at least he's appeared in movies...
    They're not terrorists. They're just people bitterly clinging to their guns and Qurans.

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