Is it the role of our government to run the country like a charity? - Page 11

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  1. #1

    Default Is it the role of our government to run the country like a charity?

    This really seems to be the real question to ask regarding the immigration debate. Listening to Democrats this seems to be their philosophy on how government should shape immigration policy. While many citizens of this country believe that immigration policy should be merit based and be in our best interests. So is it the role of government to run the country (with a 20 trillion dollar debt) like a charity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle Keeper View Post
    I always appreciate your posts as they are often articulate and well thought out, although I'm not sure the picture is a rosey as you portray it. Yes most of the new immigrants I have met throughout my experience are (ostensibly - How well does any of us truly know someone else?) decent people, but I can say the same about most native born Americans as well. As someone who has grown up in an inner city and who still has friends/family there, I can also speak of negative experiences with new immigrants as well. I know of a number of anecdotal accounts of peoples occupations being negatively impacted by immigration. There is also a segment of the new immigrant population involved with drugs, gangs, etc. There is also an economic cost that is associated with immigration:

    Furthermore, as you may recall I live in one of those high tax states, and as you pointed out population density is one of the reasons for those high taxes. Immigration logically must play some role in that. Also on an anecdotal level I can tell you that trying to get an appointment with a pediatric Doctor in places like NY city and certain parts of NJ takes months. New immigrants have more kids than native born. Now let me be clear I'm not griping just trying to point out that it is not all peaches and cream as how I interpret your post. One last thing, I think the efficacy of Foreign Aid is very debatable.
    Its easy to argue the downsides of immigration. My point was that the decision on how Government implements immigration policy should be based on a dispassionate analysis of both negative and positive effects and how those effects can be used to best help the beneficiaries of Government Charity - the American citizens.

    Personally, I'm opposed to one bipartisan immigration policy - H1-B work permits - which puts me at odds with my Liberal peers. My opposition is not based on Nationalism, but on how that policy is used by employers to take advantage of middle-class professionals. I understand the advantage of H1-B; I laid out the industry argument in my post. But that advantage is outweighed by the follow-on effects to American professionals. Industry is crying out for more STEM professionals, even as they discourage young talent by suppressing professionals' salaries and hiring cheaper foreign-born workers (and, yes, they're not supposed to hire at lower wages, but they do, anyway). H1-B is how companies get around the Supply-Demand curve of Labor. And it hurts Americans' standard of living by driving down the benefits of self-improvement.

    However, I'm a lone voice in the wilderness on this subject. My Liberal peers and business-Conservative adversaries don't want to hear my side.

    So I agree - not everything about immigration is peaches-and-cream. But neither is everything a threat to the American way of life. And its up to our Government Charity to determine how to choose policies that benefit the most Americans.
    Its still not bad enough, yet.

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  7. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkyS View Post
    And one more thing:


    The REALLY funny part is that the reason Americans have become less tolerant of admitting the poor and the unskilled is because the left has been so OVERLY tolerant of letting the poor and unskilled ILLEGALS invade the country for decades, while pretending it didn't matter. California is seemingly doing all they can to foster it!

    If they had been as circumspect as they should have been, our tolerance for admitting the unskilled and the indigent of the world would be much higher, but we are AWASH in millions of poor illegals, already. We do not therefrom need more legal ones.



    M
    we are not talking about illegal immigrants.
    If we allow politicians to succeed by scaring people, we donít actually end up any safer. Fear doesnít make us safer. It makes us weaker - Justin Trudeau Prime Minister of Canada.

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  9. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkyS View Post
    I've already said several times that if you are from Haiti and you can prove that you will be an asset to the country immediately - instead of a liability - then you should be considered based on your merit, and Trump has not said you shouldn't. But the people we actually do get from Haiti are for the most part liabilities right from the start, because Haiti produces POOR and UNSKILLED people, almost exclusively. Why? Because it is a **** hole. - one of the biggest in the Western hemisphere.

    This is simply the history and the facts speaking. I'm fairly certain we long ago filled our need for poor and unskilled people.

    You guys can have all you want. How many should we sign you up for?



    M
    "Why are we letting people in from ****hole countries" direct quote.
    it didn't say why are we letting in unskilled people from ****hole countries.
    he said why are we letting in ANYONE from ****hole countries.
    If we allow politicians to succeed by scaring people, we donít actually end up any safer. Fear doesnít make us safer. It makes us weaker - Justin Trudeau Prime Minister of Canada.

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  12. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimpmaker View Post
    There has to be some kind of getting possible. Just allowing people to blindly walk in hasn't worked for decades.
    I agree.

    Time to abort the Diversity Green Card Visa Lottery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkyS View Post
    No one said all immigrants are coming for welfare. But even the immigrants who work full time are often low-to-no-skilled and we don't need them. We have a lot of low-to-no-skilled folks already that make too little to contribute anything to the coffers. We need immigrants who are highly skilled and ready to pay a ton of taxes.

    We're happy to take those.



    M
    "ready to pay a ton of taxes"

    Property taxes?

    Anecdotal I know, but I live in one of those "ton of taxes" states, and there is nothing to show for it being such a high tax state.

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  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkyS View Post
    No one said all immigrants are coming for welfare. But even the immigrants who work full time are often low-to-no-skilled and we don't need them. We have a lot of low-to-no-skilled folks already that make too little to contribute anything to the coffers. We need immigrants who are highly skilled and ready to pay a ton of taxes.

    We're happy to take those.



    M
    That's funny. I've known my share of the Haitians in the lab business.

    They don't up and quit like a number of the native born young people.

    Some also work jobs like dental assisting.

    After a year of looking for someone to fix a portion of one room in our apartment, the owner of the apartment found a crew--from Guatemala, and they did excellent work.

    IMO New immigrants need not necessarily be doctors or engineers. But they should have some explanation--maybe a sponsoring employer or a business they could start once they have enough capital--of how they plan to support themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilds View Post
    The founders were absolutely against a pure democracy.

    A republic requires the democratic process to elect its representatives.

    Now see if you can respond without an attempt at an insult.
    And that is where it ends.....electing our representatives.

    The goverment does not rely or run on democracy....some states attempts too but even then most of their attempts get overruled by the courts.

    We are Constitutional Republic. So embrace it lib.
    To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilds View Post
    The founders were absolutely against a pure democracy.

    A republic requires the democratic process to elect its representatives.

    Now see if you can respond without an attempt at an insult.
    No it doesn't

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle Keeper View Post
    Well I guess it is always easy to charitable when its not your money or your neighborhood.
    It is their money. And neighborhood. Ask them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeAndClear View Post
    Oh boy
    He got you there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianJudo View Post
    one in four small business is owned by a immigrant.
    over 30% of immigrant are college educated
    over 50% of immigrant work full time

    they are not in America for the welfare.
    They may not be coming for welfare or government assistance but many do receive it:

    https://cis.org/Report/Welfare-Use-I...ive-Households

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle Keeper View Post
    One of the things I have noticed is the very different rhetoric used when Democrat politicians and pundits talk about immigrants and how they want to come here for opportunity. Yet when talking about the frustrations of black Americans they say it is because there no opportunity for them. The other issue that you didn't mention is why are there so many homeless Americans if we so many jobs?
    Underemployment is not talked about much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sneaky SF Dude View Post
    No it doesn't

    I suppose you are right, representatives could be appointed somehow.

    But we use the democratic process. Hence, we are a democracy. Or to make you feel better, a democratic republic.

    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people are so full of doubts. -Bertrand Russell

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    Quote Originally Posted by LucyLou View Post
    Talk about letting people in all willy nilly, who knew Colombia's standards were set so low.


    Darlin', I could win Wisconsin Man of the Year in perpetuity.

    I can never be tried by a jury.

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  35. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilds View Post
    I suppose you are right, representatives could be appointed somehow.

    But we use the democratic process. Hence, we are a democracy. Or to make you feel better, a democratic republic.
    You are still focused on the wrong thing. It had nothing to do with choosing representatives or voting.

    It has to do with sovereignty.

    That is the difference.

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