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  1. #1
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    Default For God's sake...

    Can we please stop discussing science in the Religion Forum? We have threads on evolution (science) UFO and nukes (science) and continual demands for evidence (science).

    In every Biblical story someone waltzes in to talk about evidence and, therefore, science.

    Keep in mind, atheists are not the only ones who use the Bible as a science book, fundamentalists started everyone down this path.

    In each in every story, something spiritual is in play. The spiritual interacts with the physical already in place.

    As much as I would like the Religion Forum to thrive, science does not belong here. Can we please begin discussing the spiritual elements inherent in Bible stories?


    Psst! Koushi! If you say, "No, " be forewarned I'll respond with a hug! Ah, what the heck, why wait?

    (In case there are doubts, the OP title is meant very quietly, and very, very respectfully.)




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  4. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by smyrna View Post
    Does this mean you won't be posting the lyrics to Father Christmas this year?
    That's a beautiful song.
    .

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  6. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImRightYoureWrong View Post
    Buddhism sort of revolves around the nature of being in the world as an observer, generally speaking, rather than dogmatic viewpoints of things that can objectively be studied.
    I've come to the understanding that Buddhism is more of a philosophy rather than a "religion". While that may not hold true for all forms/sects, I think the underlying principles are more philosophical than religious.
    The great enemy of truth is not so much the lie (deliberate, contrived and dishonest) but the myth (persistent, persuasive and unrealistic).

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  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayJay View Post
    Actually, itís nothing at all like saying this.
    Apparently religious beliefs that contradict modern science are only worth duscussing as long as we dont bring up those pesky scientific facts. Also, apparently evidence and proof don't belong in this forum.. we can only repeat bible verses here. If your spirituality depends on rigorous alignment with scientific findings, you don't belong!

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  10. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    I've come to the understanding that Buddhism is more of a philosophy rather than a "religion". While that may not hold true for all forms/sects, I think the underlying principles are more philosophical than religious.
    I'm sure you can find many different opinions. There are some buddhist sects who believe in various God's pantheistic...also, there's beliefs about rebirth and nirvana.

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  12. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriweather View Post
    If you don't understand, perhaps read more carefully. I am pointing out there are science discussions and there are philosophical discussions.

    Demand for proofs and evidence is a requirement of science, not of philosophy.

    Having been there for years, I understand how science becomes a part of how one looks at Biblical accounts and becomes part of one's being or spirituality. History, language, and culture should also enter into spirituality and how one perceives Biblical accounts. For example, upon reading God got mad at all humans and flooded the planet had me thinking, "Hmmm. That's not my experience of God. Not only that, science says a planet wide flood could not have happened." Instead of jumping to the conclusion there is no God, or the Old Testament God is a tyrant I research the language, history, and culture. This also took me into reading about the art of storytelling, and was reminded that the Bible is not a dictionary, encyclopedia, or a collection of news accounts. Lasting stories had a purpose, a purpose that goes right over the heads of some 21st century English speaking humans who don't know a fraction they should know before making and voicing such a conclusion.

    So don't talk to me about science. Having been there, I pretty much know how much science you use. And, it is not a lot.

    Its also a matter of people saying how good and loving god is and then that's stuff in the old testament.
    Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea.

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  14. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    I've come to the understanding that Buddhism is more of a philosophy rather than a "religion". While that may not hold true for all forms/sects, I think the underlying principles are more philosophical than religious.
    Buddhism, in original form, WAS a philosophy, not a religion. Prince Siddhartha, aka 'The Buddha' was not a God. He was as human as any other.

    THINK --> The Wright Brothers did not invent human flight, they 'merely' codified how it had always been possible using materials that have always existed. Cavemen could have flown.

    Similarly, Siddhartha 'merely' explained the nature of karma and reincarnation as (he said) they have always existed. Cavemen could detached themselves from fleshly desires and freed their souls.

    Many Buddhists today 'pray' to Gods they do not believe in, eg a statue of the fat buddha, a statue of Siddhartha after enlightenment etc., and will freely tell you their 'prayers' are simply focused meditation.

    As you seem to have guessed, other branches, eg Tibetan Buddhism, have evolved into venerating the Gods, sometimes including living people, as actual Gods. Whether this was done to 'keep it simple' for the ignorant masses, or as an evil plot to assert absolute political power, could perhaps be debated.

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  16. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriweather View Post
    Wrong. Possibly the reason you see me as "all over the place" comes from not understanding what I've been saying. This is an example of not only not being on the same page--it's an example of not even being in the same book.

    When you understand what I am saying, perhaps we can talk again.
    Meri, you’re doing it again.

    When so many different people, with different backgrounds and experiences, are “failing to understand what you are saying”, maybe it’s time to start looking at the common thread...you and your methods of communication.

    So let’s make it simple...why shouldn’t science be discussed in a religion forum?
    • The unexamined life is not worth living.
    • Wisdom is knowing how little we know.
    • The arguments stay the same...only the sides making those arguments change.


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  18. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayJay View Post
    Actually, it’s nothing at all like saying this.
    Should the story of Noah be included in a science textbook then?




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  20. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImRightYoureWrong View Post
    Apparently religious beliefs that contradict modern science are only worth duscussing as long as we dont bring up those pesky scientific facts. Also, apparently evidence and proof don't belong in this forum.. we can only repeat bible verses here. If your spirituality depends on rigorous alignment with scientific findings, you don't belong!
    Again wrong. I'm so sorry.




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  22. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobulis View Post
    Its also a matter of people saying how good and loving god is and then that's stuff in the old testament.
    Yes, God is good and loving. Why aren't we able to see that in Old Testament stories? Has anyone else here ever attended a Jewish worship ceremony where God's goodness in these stories shines brilliantly? Jews understand the intent of these stories--and approach them from a very different perspective. It is so refreshing to see the Old Testament in daylight rather than through a dense smog.




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  24. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImRightYoureWrong View Post
    Apparently religious beliefs that contradict modern science are only worth duscussing as long as we dont bring up those pesky scientific facts. Also, apparently evidence and proof don't belong in this forum.. we can only repeat bible verses here. If your spirituality depends on rigorous alignment with scientific findings, you don't belong!
    Quote Originally Posted by Meriweather View Post
    Again wrong. I'm so sorry.
    It's unfortunate that you ignore what you literally type:

    Can we please stop discussing science in the Religion Forum? We have threads on evolution (science) UFO and nukes (science) and continual demands for evidence (science).

    In every Biblical story someone waltzes in to talk about evidence and, therefore, science.

    Keep in mind, atheists are not the only ones who use the Bible as a science book, fundamentalists started everyone down this path.

    In each in every story, something spiritual is in play. The spiritual interacts with the physical already in place.

    As much as I would like the Religion Forum to thrive, science does not belong here. Can we please begin discussing the spiritual elements inherent in Bible stories?


    Psst! Koushi! If you say, "No, " be forewarned I'll respond with a hug! Ah, what the heck, why wait?

    (In case there are doubts, the OP title is meant very quietly, and very, very respectfully.)


    We aren't stupid Meri. We can read.

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  26. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriweather View Post
    Should the story of Noah be included in a science textbook then?
    That's the whole point, Meri - no it shouldn't be.

    But there are Christian politicians in certain states that *want* it to be!

    The discussions we're having here - well, I say "we," - I'm more of an observer ; ) - are with those fundamentalists who believe the earth is only 6,000 years old, that dinosaurs lived at the same time as man, etc. and that a global Flood for over 180 days wouldn't have killed every living thing on the earth.

    Several public schools in many states are actually teaching this crap.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health...ernatives.html
    "Let joy and innocence prevail."

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  28. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriweather View Post
    Yes, God is good and loving. Why aren't we able to see that in Old Testament stories? Has anyone else here ever attended a Jewish worship ceremony where God's goodness in these stories shines brilliantly? Jews understand the intent of these stories--and approach them from a very different perspective. It is so refreshing to see the Old Testament in daylight rather than through a dense smog.
    Because some people in this world have different perspectives on the 'intent' and different beliefs over the text. You know like virtually every aspect of religion. People have different beliefs. This isn't an echo chamber. What you call 'daylight' others view as wrong and/or contradictory interpretation.

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  30. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayJay View Post
    Meri, you’re doing it again.

    When so many different people, with different backgrounds and experiences, are “failing to understand what you are saying”, maybe it’s time to start looking at the common thread...you and your methods of communication.

    So let’s make it simple...why shouldn’t science be discussed in a religion forum?
    Is evolution a religion?
    Are nukes a religion?
    Should the Bible be used as a science textbook?

    Which seems more logical:

    a. Let's go to the Religion Forum and discuss religion.
    b. Let's go to the Religion Forum and discuss science.
    c. Let's go to the Religion Forum and discuss politics.

    Those who think I am saying, "Don't even mention science, politics, trivia, etc." I find too ludicrous to even acknowledge. I'm merely pointing out this is forum is, first and foremost, for Religious Discussion, with everything else more incidental to the primary religious topic. Secondly, I am pointing out the Bible is a religious book, not a science textbook, so it shouldn't be treated as a science book, but as a religious book.




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  32. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriweather View Post
    Should the story of Noah be included in a science textbook then?
    Sure...if you want to analyze why a global flood was extremely unlikely to have occurred as described.

    Now...would you like to try again?

    Maybe we’ll generalize the question...why do you think philosophy and science are as unrelated to each other as math and grammar?
    • The unexamined life is not worth living.
    • Wisdom is knowing how little we know.
    • The arguments stay the same...only the sides making those arguments change.


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