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  1. #1
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    Question What Is Served in Exposing Sexual Harassers in Sports & Entertainment?

    And what do you guys think is the objective of those doing the exposing?

    To change the behavior in Hollywood, or, in the case of sports, see reforms in Women's Gymnastics in particular?

    See various personnel canned & unable to work the moviemaking or coaching/sports medicine again?

    Prosecution in court?

    Prevent parents from signing kids up for acting classes? Or auditions? Or gymnastics?

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  3. #2
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    Exposing these individuals is not orchestrated therefore there is no single objective.

    Women and men now feel empowered to bring to light these predators. Of course there will be false accusations and some will be motivated for nefarious purposes but I believe the majority are genuine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponge Bob View Post
    And what do you guys think is the objective of those doing the exposing?

    To change the behavior in Hollywood, or, in the case of sports, see reforms in Women's Gymnastics in particular?

    See various personnel canned & unable to work the moviemaking or coaching/sports medicine again?

    Prosecution in court?

    Prevent parents from signing kids up for acting classes? Or auditions? Or gymnastics?
    I really can't answer your specific questions, but I would like to say this. When I was coming up it was normal for males to not be inhibited around each other. The same with the females.

    I guess TV gave us the weird inhibitions over the years. If a family went camping, the males would shower together & so did the females.

    When I was in the 6th (I think) grade, we had a field trip one day to the YMCA for swimming. A school bus picked us up & took us there. When we got there I started putting on my swim trunks & a man came up & said "no trunks here, take them off", so I did.

    I told a very good friend that (he's much younger than me) he said "Duck, I do not believe that". I just said "whatever". A few weeks later, he asked his father (my age) about it. His father said "yes, I went swimming there for years & we couldn't wear trunks". He apologized then.

    If a guy was stationed on a Navy ship as I was, they didn't think anything about changing clothes & walking naked around the other guys.
    Last edited by The Duck; November 27th, 2017 at 11:27 pm.
    This week under President Trump the DOW reached over 23000 & we're talking about something Trump said. WOW!

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    There is no one answer, but in an ideal world what is served is a collective shift in perception - we all understand and accept that men are not entitled to women's attention, affection, or bodies, and that women are not obligated to provide men with any of those things.
    One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato

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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Duck View Post
    I really can't answer your specific questions, but I would like to say this. When I was coming up it was normal for males to not be inhibited around each other. The same with the females.

    I guess TV gave us the weird inhibitions over the years. If a family went camping, the males would shower together & so did the females.

    When I was in the 6th (I think) grade, we had a field trip one day to the YMCA for swimming. A school bus picked us up & took us there. When we got there I started putting on my swim trunks & a man came up & said "no trunks here, take them off", so I did.

    I told a very good friend that (he's much younger than me) he said "Duck, I do not believe that". I just said "whatever". A few weeks later, he asked his father (my age) about it. His father said "yes, I went swimming there for years & we couldn't wear trunks". He apologized then.

    If a guy was stationed on a Navy ship as I was, they didn't think anything about changing clothes & walking necked around the other guys.
    I'm on the FB page of a suspense author, and one of his recent books was based in part on the man's swimming portion of his gym class in Illinois back in the '50's or '60's.

    He stated the same thing you did--the boys' swim classes were conducted minus swim trunks. It was just the girls who wore swimsuits.

    I don't know that any of the sexual harassment complaints--minus Kevin Spacey--are about inhibitions between members of the same sex, though. Most involve what should have been barriers between members of the opposite sex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponge Bob View Post
    I'm on the FB page of a suspense author, and one of his recent books was based in part on the man's swimming portion of his gym class in Illinois back in the '50's or '60's.

    He stated the same thing you did--the boys' swim classes were conducted minus swim trunks. It was just the girls who wore swimsuits.

    I don't know that any of the sexual harassment complaints--minus Kevin Spacey--are about inhibitions between members of the same sex, though. Most involve what should have been barriers between members of the opposite sex.
    You're correct.
    This week under President Trump the DOW reached over 23000 & we're talking about something Trump said. WOW!

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  13. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponge Bob View Post
    And what do you guys think is the objective of those doing the exposing?

    To change the behavior in Hollywood, or, in the case of sports, see reforms in Women's Gymnastics in particular?

    See various personnel canned & unable to work the moviemaking or coaching/sports medicine again?

    Prosecution in court?

    Prevent parents from signing kids up for acting classes? Or auditions? Or gymnastics?
    Why does there have to be an objective other than to hold these men accountable for their behavior?

    "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." - Saul Bellow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponge Bob View Post
    And what do you guys think is the objective of those doing the exposing?

    To change the behavior in Hollywood, or, in the case of sports, see reforms in Women's Gymnastics in particular?

    See various personnel canned & unable to work the moviemaking or coaching/sports medicine again?

    Prosecution in court?

    Prevent parents from signing kids up for acting classes? Or auditions? Or gymnastics?
    The purpose is to reduce that kind of bad behavior in the future. Sounds like you are defending the perpetrators. I'm undecided in terms of whether the persons preying on adults trying to get into the business should be harshly dealt with, but I have no doubts that the pedophiles attacking kids (i.e. Kevin Spacey and the Gymnastics doctors), if guilty, should have their careers totally ruined and destroyed.
    Last edited by perdidochas; November 28th, 2017 at 1:25 pm.
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis


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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis View Post
    Exposing these individuals is not orchestrated therefore there is no single objective.

    Women and men now feel empowered to bring to light these predators. Of course there will be false accusations and some will be motivated for nefarious purposes but I believe the majority are genuine.
    I see the word "empowered" too much regarding these accusations. It's become a buzzword.
    It doesn't take courage or power to level charges at someone that happened so long ago the person has no way to defend them self.

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  19. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by perdidochas View Post
    The purpose is to reduce that kind of bad behavior in the future. Sounds like you are defending the perpetrators. I'm undecided in terms of whether the persons preying on adults trying to get into the business should be harshly dealt with, but I have no doubts that the pedophiles attacking kids (i.e. Kevin Spacey and the Gymnastics doctors), if guilty, should have their careers totally ruined and destroyed.
    Huh?

    Where did I "defend" Weinstein? Spacey? Nasser--um, that creep TOTALLY repulses me. Where?

    Even Spacey's response was a bit bizarre in one instance to a young man who says he was molested at 14. "I don't remember that encounter."

    Um hmm. You've had so many encounters--and with UNDERAGED BOYS--you don't remember a particular one?! He can't even say he did or didn't? He just "doesn't remember?"

    I'm just throwing it out there what is the possible motivation of those making the accusations now--Aly Raisman doesn't even seem to want Gabrielle Douglas to have an opinion of her own, saying "You need to be in this with me"--and what is next now that the accusations have been made and in some instances people are out of jobs (Spacey, for instance, and I do believe Nasser is in prison). Some of these accusations are 20 & 30 years old, so I'm not sure if they can be prosecuted.

    Do they want to see less young people involved in these activities?

    Reform from within the activities or industries?

    What is next?

    Here's what I would like to see happen in women's gymnastics as I'm not as knowledgeable in the entertaiment industry:

    Those who are supposed to enforce certain rules, such as male personnel should not be attending to female athletes alone, particularly in a housing situation at a training camp, should enforce them.

    If that rule is violated, violator should be dealt with immediately, removed in the instance of abuse.

    Any and all who overlook violations and fail to report should also be removed from their positions & legally prosecuted when that applies.

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    Inappropriate conduct isn't exclusive to sports and entertainment.
    If someone behaves in an inappropriate manner - and the recent stories have been anything from lewd language to rape - what would make him think he has license to do that? I would say it's power - he has the power and ability to damage the reputation, withhold or terminate the job, possibly threaten harm to the victim.
    Someone who abuses a position of power should not be allowed to continue in that position of power. Any industry, whether it's sports, entertainment, media, politics, the corporate world, should address conduct. If a crime has been committed, it should be reported.

    I do see a problem with decades-old, or unverified or unverifiable allegations. The cases of the McMartin school, Tawana Brawley, the Duke lacrosse team were life-altering and expensive for those who were unjustly accused.

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  23. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponge Bob View Post
    Huh?

    Where did I "defend" Weinstein? Spacey? Nasser--um, that creep TOTALLY repulses me. Where?

    Even Spacey's response was a bit bizarre in one instance to a young man who says he was molested at 14. "I don't remember that encounter."

    Um hmm. You've had so many encounters--and with UNDERAGED BOYS--you don't remember a particular one?! He can't even say he did or didn't? He just "doesn't remember?"

    I'm just throwing it out there what is the possible motivation of those making the accusations now--Aly Raisman doesn't even seem to want Gabrielle Douglas to have an opinion of her own, saying "You need to be in this with me"--and what is next now that the accusations have been made and in some instances people are out of jobs (Spacey, for instance, and I do believe Nasser is in prison). Some of these accusations are 20 & 30 years old, so I'm not sure if they can be prosecuted.

    Do they want to see less young people involved in these activities?

    Reform from within the activities or industries?

    What is next?

    Here's what I would like to see happen in women's gymnastics as I'm not as knowledgeable in the entertaiment industry:

    Those who are supposed to enforce certain rules, such as male personnel should not be attending to female athletes alone, particularly in a housing situation at a training camp, should enforce them.

    If that rule is violated, violator should be dealt with immediately, removed in the instance of abuse.

    Any and all who overlook violations and fail to report should also be removed from their positions & legally prosecuted when that applies.
    Well, the OP, to me, was strange. It read like "why are we doing this, should men have their careers ruined for it."
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis


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  25. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackWolf View Post
    There is no one answer, but in an ideal world what is served is a collective shift in perception - we all understand and accept that men are not entitled to women's attention, affection, or bodies, and that women are not obligated to provide men with any of those things.
    Thank you captain obvious. Some men in position of power feel they need to compel women to do what they otherwise would not do because they believe they can get away with it. Why a man would want this and or feel comfortable doing this is beyond me, I've always been a "two way street" person myself. But some guys just don't care. I think it's good these people are being exposed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toll Collector View Post
    Thank you captain obvious. Some men in position of power feel they need to compel women to do what they otherwise would not do because they believe they can get away with it. Why a man would want this and or feel comfortable doing this is beyond me, I've always been a "two way street" person myself. But some guys just don't care. I think it's good these people are being exposed.
    I don't know the ratio of married to non-married of the women who were assaulted. However, I know that young women will do anything to get a job & keep it in the WH or Congress.

    If they're married, their husband may take care of that. If they're not married, they have to consider that they may have to go back home & face their family & friends as they failed. So they at times put up with it. Good for the ones who know that Trump will take steps to boot them out.
    This week under President Trump the DOW reached over 23000 & we're talking about something Trump said. WOW!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toll Collector View Post
    Thank you captain obvious. Some men in position of power feel they need to compel women to do what they otherwise would not do because they believe they can get away with it. Why a man would want this and or feel comfortable doing this is beyond me, I've always been a "two way street" person myself. But some guys just don't care. I think it's good these people are being exposed.
    Not so obvous, Sergeant-Major. Plenty of men operate from a position where they think they are entitled to these things from women, and get upset when they are denied.
    One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato

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