Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 55
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Atlanta Ga.
    Posts
    39,087
    Rep Power
    18
    Post Like Stats

    Default This Is My Way To Prevent Some Church & Theater Shootings

    According to the news, the Tx. shooter parked his car across the street from the small church in a small town. He then walked across the street & started shooting, even before he got into the church.

    Then the killer walked into the church & started shooting randomly killing 26 & wounding 20.

    How could this have been prevented? First: we need to stop catering to political PC for good. This would be so Americans aren't afraid to tell authorities when they see someone of something suspicious.

    Second: churches need to immediately have safety doors, like those in schools & theaters installed. Doors which can't be opened from the outside after the sanctuary has all those that are probably coming to worship. Then you can get out, but not in.

    Third: Have one or two armed (preferably) off duty police officers, who are used to dealing with this sort of thing, stand at the main front doors. These guards can then get a look at anyone who is at the doors, wanting to get in after the service starts.

    This terrible murderous ordeal these worshipers went thru could have been prevented quick. If you don't look right, you don't get in the front doors & all other doors are already locked.

    I know some will say "well the shooter could have an accomplice to already be in to let shooter in ". My answer to that is to always have other guards cover the side doors too, looking for anyone who may be suspicious, that may be up to no good. Anyway these shootings so far have been a one man job, but for terrorism.
    Duck
    Last edited by The Duck; November 6th, 2017 at 4:34 pm.
    This week under President Trump the DOW reached over 23000 & we're talking about something Trump said. WOW!

  2. Sponsored Links


  3. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    West Georgia
    Gender
    Male
    My Mood
    Phlegmatic
    Ideology
    Conservative
    Posts
    6,379
    Rep Power
    12
    Post Like Stats

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Duck View Post
    You know Gimp, for years we've allowed the criminals to run around doing their dirty dealings assisted by the anti-gun liberals, because we just didn't stand up for our rights as citizens, to live by the 2-A.
    After the first time I was robbed, he was carrying a knife) I swore it wouldn't happen again. I've been carrying a gun in my lap every since. I refuse to be a victim.

  4. Sponsored Links


  5. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Atlanta Ga.
    Posts
    39,087
    Rep Power
    18
    Post Like Stats

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gimpmaker View Post
    After the first time I was robbed, he was carrying a knife) I swore it wouldn't happen again. I've been carrying a gun in my lap every since. I refuse to be a victim.
    Good for you Buddy.
    This week under President Trump the DOW reached over 23000 & we're talking about something Trump said. WOW!

  6. Sponsored Links


  7. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    is everything
    Gender
    Male
    My Mood
    Chilled like fine wine
    Ideology
    Independent
    Age
    40
    Posts
    89,610
    Rep Power
    50
    Post Like Stats

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Duck View Post
    According to the news, the Tx. shooter parked his car across the street from the small church in a small town. He then walked across the street & started shooting, even before he got into the church.

    Then the killer walked into the church & started shooting randomly killing 26 & wounding 20.

    How could this have been prevented? First: we need to stop catering to political PC for good. This would be so Americans aren't afraid to tell authorities when they see someone of something suspicious.

    Second: churches need to immediately have safety doors, like those in schools & theaters installed. Doors which can't be opened from the outside after the sanctuary has all those that are probably coming to worship. Then you can get out, but not in.

    Third: Have one or two armed (preferably) off duty police officers, who are used to dealing with this sort of thing, stand at the main front doors. These guards can then get a look at anyone who is at the doors, wanting to get in after the service starts.

    This terrible murderous ordeal these worshipers went thru could have been prevented quick. If you don't look right, you don't get in the front doors & all other doors are already locked.

    I know some will say "well the shooter could have an accomplice to already be in to let shooter in ". My answer to that is to always have other guards cover the side doors too, looking for anyone who may be suspicious, that may be up to no good. Anyway these shootings so far have been a one man job, but for terrorism.
    Duck
    None of these are bad ideas.

    They are, however, expensive ideas. Are you proposing legislation to require these ideas, or just making suggestions?

    Sometimes it is the people who no one imagines anything of who do the things that no one can imagine

  8. Sponsored Links


  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    is everything
    Gender
    Male
    My Mood
    Chilled like fine wine
    Ideology
    Independent
    Age
    40
    Posts
    89,610
    Rep Power
    50
    Post Like Stats

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Duck View Post
    Dad, your & Samm's posts describe exactly what I'm trying to say here. It almost sounds like two posters are worrying about "how much will the gov have to pay for this". This has nothing at all to do with the gov.

    Churches are self sufficient in their finances & certainly don't need the politicians to put in the budget next year to pay cops to be at every church to protect the congregations. That's ridiculous.

    I'm speaking of church pastors getting together now & finding ways to make their congregation secure when they come to worship, not the gov paying cops to protect them. I've already posted, that pastors of the second largest county around Atlanta have already done what I'm talking about. They're gathering to see what they can do to find ways to keep their people safe.

    I don't want a nutjob coming into my church & killing my family & friends. After Dylan Roof killed some of the congregation in Charleston, pastors should have then got together & found a security expert to show them how to protect them.

    I heard one woman from the Tx church say "our church is gone, we can't get new people, repair our church & start over again".

    If we leave it up to politicians to find a way to keep us safe (I hope that's not an option) they will say, "we'll take that into consideration". "We're going to look at that". "we have that problem on the table". "Yes, we'll kick that can down a long road for you". People who depend on the gov for their livelihood are up a creek without a paddle!
    Churches around the country are struggling to keep up their buildings and services in the face of reduced contributions. I know donations to my church have been down for years. It’s not a never-ending spigot of cash.

    Sometimes it is the people who no one imagines anything of who do the things that no one can imagine

  10. Sponsored Links


  11. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    The Last Best Place
    Gender
    Male
    My Mood
    Sanguine
    Ideology
    Get off my lawn
    Posts
    97,182
    Rep Power
    30
    Post Like Stats

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Funkenstein View Post
    None of these are bad ideas.

    They are, however, expensive ideas. Are you proposing legislation to require these ideas, or just making suggestions?
    Two points ... 1) as has been discussed, a church does not have to hire trained professionals (read: expensive) to provide security during worship, and 2) mandating that churches provide armed security is well beyond the authority of the government.

    "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." - Saul Bellow

  12. Sponsored Links


  13. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    is everything
    Gender
    Male
    My Mood
    Chilled like fine wine
    Ideology
    Independent
    Age
    40
    Posts
    89,610
    Rep Power
    50
    Post Like Stats

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    Two points ... 1) as has been discussed, a church does not have to hire trained professionals (read: expensive) to provide security during worship, and 2) mandating that churches provide armed security is well beyond the authority of the government.
    I've said this before, mostly in relation to mass shootings, but having untrained people with weapons during this kind of attack could very well make things worse. The guy who hit the church shooter last week was an NRA-approved instructor. There aren't many of those just lying around with nothing to do on a Sunday morning, you know?

    As for #2 - I was just checking on Duck's mentality.

    Sometimes it is the people who no one imagines anything of who do the things that no one can imagine

  14. Sponsored Links


  15. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Atlanta Ga.
    Posts
    39,087
    Rep Power
    18
    Post Like Stats

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Funkenstein View Post
    I've said this before, mostly in relation to mass shootings, but having untrained people with weapons during this kind of attack could very well make things worse. The guy who hit the church shooter last week was an NRA-approved instructor. There aren't many of those just lying around with nothing to do on a Sunday morning, you know?

    As for #2 - I was just checking on Duck's mentality.
    I suppose since I didn't reply to your post, you posted again, but this time you wanted to evaluate me, I suppose. I didn't realize that you're actually a Physician. I do have some other problems that you may help me with tho.

    I've already been diagnoses with "cognitive impairment" 12 years ago. They also said that my brain is deteriorating. I've had many seizures as well as mini strokes over the years. I suppose that's why my mouth quivers at times.

    Several times over the years I've gotten lost in an area that I worked in for decades. Day before yesterday, I got lost going to my brother's house, 7 miles from here, that I've been going to for more than 40 years.

    This thread was started because of my expertes. Yet like all my threads, it went over like a turd in the punch bowl. I wasted my thoughts & finger muscles, when I thought it may help church pastors to wise up.
    This week under President Trump the DOW reached over 23000 & we're talking about something Trump said. WOW!

  16. Sponsored Links


  17. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    The Last Best Place
    Gender
    Male
    My Mood
    Sanguine
    Ideology
    Get off my lawn
    Posts
    97,182
    Rep Power
    30
    Post Like Stats

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Funkenstein View Post
    I've said this before, mostly in relation to mass shootings, but having untrained people with weapons during this kind of attack could very well make things worse. The guy who hit the church shooter last week was an NRA-approved instructor. There aren't many of those just lying around with nothing to do on a Sunday morning, you know?

    As for #2 - I was just checking on Duck's mentality.
    Anybody trained by an NRA instructor (or other certified instructor) would be capable in stopping an armed intruder. Time after time, even an untrained (but probably practiced) armed citizen has stopped shooters ... sometimes by just demonstrating to the assailant that they are armed. Mass killers have one thing in common ... they like soft targets. As soon as it gets hard, they usually quit.

    "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." - Saul Bellow

  18. Sponsored Links


  19. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Spud Country
    Gender
    Male
    My Mood
    Jubilant
    Ideology
    Filthy Liberal
    Posts
    78,670
    Rep Power
    30
    Post Like Stats

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    Anybody trained by an NRA instructor (or other certified instructor) would be capable in stopping an armed intruder. Time after time, even an untrained (but probably practiced) armed citizen has stopped shooters ... sometimes by just demonstrating to the assailant that they are armed. Mass killers have one thing in common ... they like soft targets. As soon as it gets hard, they usually quit.
    What if the armed intruder had also been NRA trained and as a bonus US Military trained?

    Ah, as soon as it gets "hard" they usually quit. So true. Making it "hard" after they have wreaked their havoc, done their killing of innocents in the soft target is not of course prevention.

    We should be seeking prevention.

    As I said before, that very well may require revisiting and possibly revising the 2ND Amendment.
    =====

  20. Sponsored Links


  21. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    is everything
    Gender
    Male
    My Mood
    Chilled like fine wine
    Ideology
    Independent
    Age
    40
    Posts
    89,610
    Rep Power
    50
    Post Like Stats

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Duck View Post
    I suppose since I didn't reply to your post, you posted again, but this time you wanted to evaluate me, I suppose. I didn't realize that you're actually a Physician. I do have some other problems that you may help me with tho.

    I've already been diagnoses with "cognitive impairment" 12 years ago. They also said that my brain is deteriorating. I've had many seizures as well as mini strokes over the years. I suppose that's why my mouth quivers at times.

    Several times over the years I've gotten lost in an area that I worked in for decades. Day before yesterday, I got lost going to my brother's house, 7 miles from here, that I've been going to for more than 40 years.

    This thread was started because of my expertes. Yet like all my threads, it went over like a turd in the punch bowl. I wasted my thoughts & finger muscles, when I thought it may help church pastors to wise up.
    Sorry - I didn't mean your mental state. I know you have a couple of issues on that front and I don't want you to think I was coming at you for those.

    I meant "I wanted to know what Duck thought about what I posted".

    Sometimes it is the people who no one imagines anything of who do the things that no one can imagine

  22. Sponsored Links


  23. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    The Last Best Place
    Gender
    Male
    My Mood
    Sanguine
    Ideology
    Get off my lawn
    Posts
    97,182
    Rep Power
    30
    Post Like Stats

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LouC View Post
    What if the armed intruder had also been NRA trained and as a bonus US Military trained?

    Ah, as soon as it gets "hard" they usually quit. So true. Making it "hard" after they have wreaked their havoc, done their killing of innocents in the soft target is not of course prevention.

    We should be seeking prevention.

    As I said before, that very well may require revisiting and possibly revising the 2ND Amendment.
    There are never any guarantees when it comes to violence Lou. The assailant could be a complete dolt and still manage to kill a well trained guard. But the point is, if you donít have an armed guard, the outcome is virtually guaranteed ... a lot of innocent people are going to die.

    When the armed guard at the church in Colorado Springs confronted the guy who had killed two parishioners in the parking lot (in addition to several people at other locations where unfortunately, nobody was armed) he was stopped by a bullet to the leg as he was trying to enter the sanctuary where scores of worshippers sat helplessly in the pews. How many of them do you think may have died if she did not shoot him?

    Exactly what revision(s) would you propose be done to the 2nd Amendment that would prevent mass murders?

    "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." - Saul Bellow

  24. Sponsored Links


  25. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Spud Country
    Gender
    Male
    My Mood
    Jubilant
    Ideology
    Filthy Liberal
    Posts
    78,670
    Rep Power
    30
    Post Like Stats

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    There are never any guarantees when it comes to violence Lou. The assailant could be a complete dolt and still manage to kill a well trained guard. But the point is, if you don’t have an armed guard, the outcome is virtually guaranteed ... a lot of innocent people are going to die.

    When the armed guard at the church in Colorado Springs confronted the guy who had killed two parishioners in the parking lot (in addition to several people at other locations where unfortunately, nobody was armed) he was stopped by a bullet to the leg as he was trying to enter the sanctuary where scores of worshippers sat helplessly in the pews. How many of them do you think may have died if she did not shoot him?

    Exactly what revision(s) would you propose be done to the 2nd Amendment that would prevent mass murders?
    To completely prevent mass murders? As we both know that is not ever going to happen. Make them happen less often, well that is not an impossible prospect.

    Mind you I am just kicking around ideas.

    One thing about revisiting the 2nd Amendment that would be at the top of my "to do" list would be to eliminate any and all confusion regarding the "A well regulated militia ... "

    I could see it going either of two major directions, completely removing any reference to a militia while retaining the right of the people to keep and bear arms. Or making the right to keep and bear arms contingent upon gun owners actually being mandated to become state militia members and participate in state militia service in order to own those guns.

    One thing I see that is a hindrance in the quest to have the right to bear arms and having safety in there being so many arms is the, in essence, house of babel regarding any uniformity of laws across 50 states and our various territories.

    This might be the biggest and most difficult aspect of how I would like to revisit the 2nd amendment. It would be the only way to achieve uniformity of firearm laws would be to expand the 2nd that gives us the right to make the 2nd give the federal government the full power to regulate so that for example allowances and restrictions on possession of a gun after being the subject of a restraining order would be identical across all 50 and our territories. Or that mental health adjudications disallowing gun possession in Arkansas would be exactly the same in Maine. Or a big one for me as I have moved around a lot and have carried my guns all across America. I have not left the house with any of them in years because I have just been too worried about state laws or have not been able to find out sufficient information about different state laws.

    I hope this is the last state I will ever live in, and I am working on finding out about its gun laws and I intend to get a concealed carry permit here. But it would be nice to know that if I do get that concealed carry permit that it would be automatically compatible in every other state I might travel to. I don't want to have to try to find out if a different state has reciprocity regarding honoring such permits. A uniform Federal law out of the revisited 2nd would fix that, in my opinion.

    This would likely be a terrible fight with State Rights factions pitted against Federal Rights factions.
    =====

  26. Sponsored Links


  27. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    The Republic
    Gender
    Male
    My Mood
    Offended
    Ideology
    Get off my lawn
    Posts
    158,000
    Rep Power
    30
    Post Like Stats

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LouC View Post
    To completely prevent mass murders? As we both know that is not ever going to happen. Make them happen less often, well that is not an impossible prospect.

    Mind you I am just kicking around ideas.

    One thing about revisiting the 2nd Amendment that would be at the top of my "to do" list would be to eliminate any and all confusion regarding the "A well regulated militia ... "

    I could see it going either of two major directions, completely removing any reference to a militia while retaining the right of the people to keep and bear arms. Or making the right to keep and bear arms contingent upon gun owners actually being mandated to become state militia members and participate in state militia service in order to own those guns.

    One thing I see that is a hindrance in the quest to have the right to bear arms and having safety in there being so many arms is the, in essence, house of babel regarding any uniformity of laws across 50 states and our various territories.

    This might be the biggest and most difficult aspect of how I would like to revisit the 2nd amendment. It would be the only way to achieve uniformity of firearm laws would be to expand the 2nd that gives us the right to make the 2nd give the federal government the full power to regulate so that for example allowances and restrictions on possession of a gun after being the subject of a restraining order would be identical across all 50 and our territories. Or that mental health adjudications disallowing gun possession in Arkansas would be exactly the same in Maine. Or a big one for me as I have moved around a lot and have carried my guns all across America. I have not left the house with any of them in years because I have just been too worried about state laws or have not been able to find out sufficient information about different state laws.

    I hope this is the last state I will ever live in, and I am working on finding out about its gun laws and I intend to get a concealed carry permit here. But it would be nice to know that if I do get that concealed carry permit that it would be automatically compatible in every other state I might travel to. I don't want to have to try to find out if a different state has reciprocity regarding honoring such permits. A uniform Federal law out of the revisited 2nd would fix that, in my opinion.

    This would likely be a terrible fight with State Rights factions pitted against Federal Rights factions.
    Good Lord. You actually think this is a good idea.

    There is no confusion about the militia clause. The right is of the people. Not the people of the militia.

    There is only motivated reasoning.

  28. Sponsored Links


  29. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    The Republic
    Gender
    Male
    My Mood
    Offended
    Ideology
    Get off my lawn
    Posts
    158,000
    Rep Power
    30
    Post Like Stats

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Funkenstein View Post
    I've said this before, mostly in relation to mass shootings, but having untrained people with weapons during this kind of attack could very well make things worse. The guy who hit the church shooter last week was an NRA-approved instructor. There aren't many of those just lying around with nothing to do on a Sunday morning, you know?

    As for #2 - I was just checking on Duck's mentality.
    One case where that happened.

  30. Sponsored Links


  31. #45
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    The Last Best Place
    Gender
    Male
    My Mood
    Sanguine
    Ideology
    Get off my lawn
    Posts
    97,182
    Rep Power
    30
    Post Like Stats

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LouC View Post
    To completely prevent mass murders? As we both know that is not ever going to happen. Make them happen less often, well that is not an impossible prospect.

    Mind you I am just kicking around ideas.

    One thing about revisiting the 2nd Amendment that would be at the top of my "to do" list would be to eliminate any and all confusion regarding the "A well regulated militia ... "

    I could see it going either of two major directions, completely removing any reference to a militia while retaining the right of the people to keep and bear arms. Or making the right to keep and bear arms contingent upon gun owners actually being mandated to become state militia members and participate in state militia service in order to own those guns.

    One thing I see that is a hindrance in the quest to have the right to bear arms and having safety in there being so many arms is the, in essence, house of babel regarding any uniformity of laws across 50 states and our various territories.

    This might be the biggest and most difficult aspect of how I would like to revisit the 2nd amendment. It would be the only way to achieve uniformity of firearm laws would be to expand the 2nd that gives us the right to make the 2nd give the federal government the full power to regulate so that for example allowances and restrictions on possession of a gun after being the subject of a restraining order would be identical across all 50 and our territories. Or that mental health adjudications disallowing gun possession in Arkansas would be exactly the same in Maine. Or a big one for me as I have moved around a lot and have carried my guns all across America. I have not left the house with any of them in years because I have just been too worried about state laws or have not been able to find out sufficient information about different state laws.

    I hope this is the last state I will ever live in, and I am working on finding out about its gun laws and I intend to get a concealed carry permit here. But it would be nice to know that if I do get that concealed carry permit that it would be automatically compatible in every other state I might travel to. I don't want to have to try to find out if a different state has reciprocity regarding honoring such permits. A uniform Federal law out of the revisited 2nd would fix that, in my opinion.

    This would likely be a terrible fight with State Rights factions pitted against Federal Rights factions.
    The devil is always in the details, and while some of your suggestions are not totally without some merit, the proposal is chock full of details that reek with potential liberty stealing pitfalls. The more simple solution to the hodge-podge of gun laws across the nation is for all States to follow the US Constitution exactly as it is written. In other words, incorporate the 2nd Amendment just as the 1st, 4th, and 5th are incorporated. That way the States have no leeway to violate the individual right to keep and bear arm without due process, so you don't have to study up on a State's laws when you cross a State line.

    "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." - Saul Bellow

  32. Sponsored Links


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •