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  1. #1
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    Default These are bleak numbers of the have and have not's

    I was just reading this article and it is a terrifying number. I would like to see these numbers compared for today's American's to maybe 20 years ago for a comparison. I find it hard to believe it has always been this bad.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/13/here...etirement.html

    69% of American's have less than $1,000 in savings. Of that 35% have a few hundred dollars and 34% have zero. Only 15% of American's have over $10,000 in savings.

    Dig down a little further. Less than 13% have pensions compared to 25 years ago at 38%. And most know largely 401k's suck.

    This is a tragedy, I don't know what the fix is if there is any but it is a financial time bomb ready to explode.

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  3. #286

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snagglepuss View Post
    The $50 a month seems a quite low, but my family of 5 is able to live on a grocery budget of under $600, including non-food items, and we have kids with special dietary requirements (non-gluten) that are far more expensive than the regular stuff. I think the biggest difference for us is that we don't buy a bunch of the 'ready made' over processed crap that a lot of people buy, We make most of our stuff from scratch (or scratch-ish) with fresh ingredients and it tastes better, costs less, and is typically healthier.
    I pull a lot out of the backyard in the summer and can/freeze all the green beans, corn, tomatoes, peas and stuff, but I canít grow rice or mill flour. My wife concocts our household cleaners out of mainly vinegar and a bunch of products that all sound like they come from the era of silent movies, but I canít make my own lightbulbs. Iím legitimately impressed with your budget because I know exactly how far our money goes and what it costs to home cook with good ingredients.

    That website budget looked like it was put together by a high school class who were just guessing at what they thought stuff cost.

    $500/month=16.67/day
    4 humans @3 meals a day (assume they have those unicorn children Iíve heard about that donít get hungry between meals)=12 human feedings
    $16.67/12=$1.38 per feeding. >$6 per family meal. Thatís a hard mark to for me to hit, and I supplement with lots of non-store stuff. Not everyone can do that (more should, but thatís a digression).

    That assumes the family will spend no more than $20/month on
    shampoo, soap, toothpaste, laundry detergent, light bulbs, clothing, Band-Aids, etc.
    The budget also leaves no allowances for home/car maintenance.

    $50 for electric: can't include running clothes dryers and dishwashers in a 2/3bd;1-2ba family home, much less central AC/heat. The best months our bill is more than double that.
    Honesty is always the best policy.
    Steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world.
    Even our commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand

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  5. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toll Collector View Post
    Not everybody can pick and choose where they want to work. My wife worked management for Verizon. If she was offered a promotion to go to San Francisco what does she do, say no, I'd rather be in South Carolina? Similar to my job, it's location specific.
    If its not advantageous to her or your family? Yes, saying no is exactly what she should do.

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  7. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantax View Post
    The only people I know who fit that description all have one thing in common, lack of a college education or lack of a marketable skill beyond simple manual labor or retail.
    Don't really disagree. But I still think there's a fundamental flaw when you can work full time, do all the things right, and still not be able to get by.

    Not everyone can make $100k a year and have a college degree.

    Our society needs people to stock shelves at Wal Mart, serve burgers at McDonald's. They should be able to put food on their table for an honest day's work and not go broke doing so.

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  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueapplepaste View Post
    Don't really disagree. But I still think there's a fundamental flaw when you can work full time, do all the things right, and still not be able to get by.

    Not everyone can make $100k a year and have a college degree.

    Our society needs people to stock shelves at Wal Mart, serve burgers at McDonald's. They should be able to put food on their table for an honest day's work and not go broke doing so.
    If you didn't learn a marketable skill sufficient to command a wage high enough to live on, you didn't do everything right. You screwed up, royally.
    Self appointed forum Mark Zuckerberg, feel free to ask me if any news story is real or fake.

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  11. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toll Collector View Post
    I knew a couple living in NJ that made 70k each, had two kids, a mortgage, 2 cars, and lived week to week. No savings what so ever. And this goes back to the year 2000. They're family so this is how I know. I don't see what they're doing wrong. The house is an average cookie cutter split level. The cars are nothing special. Nothing they have stands out.

    Money don't go as far as it used to. Their food bill alone was between 1000-1200 a month. Kids are very expensive.
    Kids are crazy expensive. Even in NJ, I would think $140k 17 years ago would have been adequate. Who knows. Maybe lots of debt for college? (though that's an entirely different discussion as that will be the albatross around the next generation's neck that keeps them from moving up).

    I think that is a battle that goes on between the wealthy, not your average individual. That's how they show their peers how successful they are. Your average person/family just likes nice things. They feel they worked hard and want a reward. So they buy stuff. Sometimes too much stuff.
    Disagree 100%. I think its pervasive in society of always wanting the nicest thing. What they're trying to keep up with might be different. But its our consumer culture. Heck it's a large part of how our economy functions is people always buying crap.

    I think you described having a crap job.

    Our economy is broken for all but the tip top.
    [/QUOTE]

    Crap jobs should still pay a decent wage. Someone has to do the crap jobs.

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  13. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snagglepuss View Post
    I am not the tip top, and the economy works fine for me. Are there flaws with our economy? Sure. But your statement is demonstrably false.
    Perhaps a little hyperbole on my part. But the majority of America hasn't had a real raise in wages in 30+ years, while the top have had theirs skyrocket. That's a broken economy when a rising tide only raises one boat and the rest start to sink.

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  15. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantax View Post
    If you didn't learn a marketable skill sufficient to command a wage high enough to live on, you didn't do everything right. You screwed up, royally.
    Oversimplification that ignores reality.

    As I said, we need people to fill menial jobs. Do you think someone who is a janitor shouldn't earn enough to live on?

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  18. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueapplepaste View Post
    Oversimplification that ignores reality.

    As I said, we need people to fill menial jobs. Do you think someone who is a janitor shouldn't earn enough to live on?
    I think that mindset is also vastly overlooking the fact that there's a LOT of non-menial jobs that simply don't pay more than average and really not much more than minimum wage.

    I heard some idiot proponent of Trump's tax reform on the radio last night putting forth a 0% bracket for couples making $24,000 or less. Which, for individuals, works out to $12,000, less than half the minimum wage. Then the next bracket is 12%, so people earning less than minimum wage are going to be seeing a (pretty significant for them) tax increase on top of the already regressive social security and medicare/aid taxes. I'm not thrilled to see the GOP try to fob off another tax increase on the lower earners while decreasing taxes on 'job creators' whom will trickle down that tax break into a global labor market where nobody on the bottom in the US can ever hope to compete.

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  21. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueapplepaste View Post
    Kids are crazy expensive. Even in NJ, I would think $140k 17 years ago would have been adequate. Who knows. Maybe lots of debt for college? (though that's an entirely different discussion as that will be the albatross around the next generation's neck that keeps them from moving up).
    You would think 140k would be. But if you're not careful, money goes quick. Just on your average everyday life stuff. Phone plan, Netflix, high end cable, eating out a lot and going to movies. Those are just a few things but when you keep piling on, you run out of money and have nothing to show for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by blueapplepaste View Post
    Disagree 100%. I think its pervasive in society of always wanting the nicest thing. What they're trying to keep up with might be different. But its our consumer culture. Heck it's a large part of how our economy functions is people always buying crap.
    I don't disagree with you at all. We're probably just miscommunicating. What you said is exactly right, I just don't think describing that as "keeping up with the Jones's" Most middle class people just want nice things regardless of what anyone else has. It's those that live in the Hamptons and are rich that worry about keeping up and showing off.

    Quote Originally Posted by blueapplepaste View Post
    Crap jobs should still pay a decent wage. Someone has to do the crap jobs.
    Then people have to stop doing them until they pay more. No other way around it. For larger companies only, I think it is disgusting what they pay their employees. People like me end up paying for them anyway through government aid. Why should I or anyone else foot the bill? If you have the means, pay for your employees yourself. Send Walmart the bill for their employees government aid and see how quickly they raise that dollar an hour. But again, not every business can afford this.

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  24. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueapplepaste View Post
    Oversimplification that ignores reality.

    As I said, we need people to fill menial jobs. Do you think someone who is a janitor shouldn't earn enough to live on?
    No, I am fine with state and local minimum wages, what I oppose are one size fits all federal minimums. A janitor can get by fine on what he makes in my area. Housing is incredibly cheap around here.

    quick example

    https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...2_M33739-69486
    Last edited by zantax; October 13th, 2017 at 2:05 pm.
    Self appointed forum Mark Zuckerberg, feel free to ask me if any news story is real or fake.

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  26. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantax View Post
    No, I am fine with state and local minimum wages, what I oppose are one size fits all federal minimums. A janitor can get by fine on what he makes in my area. Housing is incredibly cheap around here.

    quick example

    https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...2_M33739-69486
    That is housing how about insurance gas and other day to day expenses.

    Now I have no problem with a federal minimum wage because it is the United States and going to state to state should not be like going from a 1st world country roads a 3rd world country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRS View Post
    That is housing how about insurance gas and other day to day expenses.

    Now I have no problem with a federal minimum wage because it is the United States and going to state to state should not be like going from a 1st world country roads a 3rd world country.
    We have busses too.
    Self appointed forum Mark Zuckerberg, feel free to ask me if any news story is real or fake.

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  30. #298
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    One thing is for sure.

    Itís really expensive to be poor.

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  33. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by adroit View Post
    If that. And even then, they don't really have control of the management company that runs the 401k. For example, I can pick all vanguard indexes with negligible fees, but the company that manages our 401k conveniently adds almost a percentage point on top of that.
    Wow that's horrible when I worked in the U.S. we had one 2040 Schwab fund with fees compared to Vanguard thankfully they didn't take on a percentage point. That's bad.

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  35. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by poorblackman View Post
    Anything under 500k a year doesn't go far.
    No wonder you consider yourself poor... If 500k is the poverty line.


    We are so lucky to live in the USA, and during an inter-glacial warming period with

    President Donald J. Trump as President





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