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  1. #1
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    Default The Old Testament - a study thread

    As I mentioned in a previous thread, I'm reading the Bible - King James Version - from beginning to end.

    Still working on Exodus. I've got to the point, Chapter 24, where Moses is on Mount Sinai being instructed on how to build the Ark of the Covenant - all in gold.

    And of course all sorts of things from Genesis and Exodus have puzzled me... many of which I've asked about before, including God's logic in sending a flood to wipe out all mankind and all animal kind - but then saving Noah's family who are all still part of original sin...so He accomplished nothing by that flood except to kill a lot of people...original sin and man's wickedness was still in the world...

    Then there's the story of Joseph. There's going to be 7 years of famine in the land, so Joseph's father - Jacob aka Israel - brings all his people into Egypt to serve the pharaoh - which is the start of their slavery.

    And I've asked about that before too....Moses keeps telling Pharaoh to let his people go, but God - GOD - keeps hardening Pharaoh's heart so that the Egyptians have to endure the 10 plagues.

    And then after he lets them go, God AGAIN hardens Pharaoh's heart so he chases after them with his army and is drowned in the Red Sea. None of that was Pharaoh's own doing - God did it all...

    But, I have asked about all that before so let's start some new questions...

    When God is telling Moses to tell the Hebrews to "get out of Dodge," he tells them to "borrow" jewelry from the Egypians, and is specific that they are only going out to "worship" their God - implying that they'll return and, presumably, bring back all those jewels with them.

    So is God telling Moses and the Hebrews to lie to the Egyptians? And...they're pretty well-treated slaves, if the Egyptians allow them to borrow jewelry...
    "Let joy and innocence prevail."

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  3. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex McAlpine View Post
    More or less. At this point I'm just trying to finally read the Bible all the way through and don't want to get bogged down on a single point.



    And this is what confuses me about God's logic. Admittedly people can be extremely stupid (I've had evidence of this in my personal life just recently!) but it seems to me if you've got an actual God talking to you who has proved to be a God, you don't go messing around and disobeying him. He's shown his power... but if God talks to you as a prophet as he did to Balaam, I don't understand that one king continuing to try to get him to curse the Israelites when Balaam blesses them three times. I'd've thought that King would have said, "How can we get this powerful God to like us???



    Thanks, you and Meri also, for that info.

    I'm still working on Numbers.... right now only have time for a couple of chapters a day.


    Meri has some interesting insights but her talent is more broad in nature and leans heavily on a solid Catholic foundation. It is not to belittle her or Catholicism but it is known that Catholicism does not rely 100% on what scripture does say it also brings in outside teachings and interpretations which can be debated as to their accuracy.

    Although I am a Baptist I also try to be 100% what scripture does say even to the point of having disagreements with some of my Baptist fellows.

    The Word of God is where we are to learn of God and all His revealed ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    African-Americans were enslaved here in America for approximately 465 years. Would you classify their descendants today as "foreign workers"?
    The United States is odd in so many ways that it is problematic to use as a norm. Remember that the US is an entire nation of immigrants bound together by a document. Most countries are effectively tribal with "citizenship" passed solely through blood. This was true even for the "tribes" of "Israel." They were "foreign" in the sense that they were not a part of the Egyptian people, neither culturally, or through blood.

    As a side note, the numbers would be much more impressive if we could prove that Genesis was composed 400 years before Exodus, but we can't so the fact that the numbers basically add up is somewhat a moot point.

    Another side note, "America" isn't the same as "the Americas." Slaves did not enter what would be the United States until Jamestown in 1619 and then it was only a few in number.


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  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbut1 View Post
    It is known that Catholicism does not rely 100% on what scripture does say it also brings in outside teachings and interpretations which can be debated as to their accuracy.
    This is true of Judaism as well, I believe? They've got their Old Testament and then they've got their Talmud which is something different?
    "Let joy and innocence prevail."

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    I've finished Numbers!

    33:4 For the Egyptians buried all their first born, which the Lord had smitten among them; upon their gods also the Lord executed judgements.

    Reading this literally, is the Bible saying that the gods of Egypt actually exist, and that the Lord punished these "lesser" gods (i.e. Egypt's 'mythology' of Isis, Osiris, etc. etc.

    I'm trying to remember God's words from Genesis onward to Numbers. Did he ever say, "there is no other God but me," or did he just say, "Thou shalt have no Gods before me?" Meaning their actually are other "small gods" (to quote Terry Pratchett) in existence, but God wants those other gods to wither and die so that he gets all the worshipers?
    "Let joy and innocence prevail."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex McAlpine View Post
    I've finished Numbers!

    33:4 For the Egyptians buried all their first born, which the Lord had smitten among them; upon their gods also the Lord executed judgements.

    Reading this literally, is the Bible saying that the gods of Egypt actually exist, and that the Lord punished these "lesser" gods (i.e. Egypt's 'mythology' of Isis, Osiris, etc. etc.

    I'm trying to remember God's words from Genesis onward to Numbers. Did he ever say, "there is no other God but me," or did he just say, "Thou shalt have no Gods before me?" Meaning their actually are other "small gods" (to quote Terry Pratchett) in existence, but God wants those other gods to wither and die so that he gets all the worshipers?
    Well that comes to multiple different ways to perceive this.

    When dealing with God the creator of all there is in fact only ONE God.

    Yet satan is also called the god of this world meaning he currently has power confined to this terrestrial domain, He however is limited by the creator whom created him. Satan cannot out power God or Gods creation so to God he is not a God but a part of Gods creation. To mankind though satan possesses more power than us and compared to our eyes and abilities satan is mighty powerful but he still can only do what the creator allows him to do. He cannot go beyond the limits God has placed upon him anymore than we can with the limits God has placed on us.

    The above is not to say God created evil, contrary God created consistently and just like God gave mankind a choice to love Him or not, He also gave the created angelic hosts that ability to choose, satan chose to rebel against God and convinced mankind that it was a good idea.

    Take this same idea to the gods of Egypt they are not real like Satan is but to the perception and belief of some of mankind they were real because they allowed them to be real in their minds. Those Egyptian gods had no power except what mankind allowed to be done in their name wether real (the action done) or imagined. The people of Egypt believed in their gods so to them they were real and God by bringing the 10 Plagues systematically destroyed the power of at least 10 of their gods. (once you know and understand the interconnectiveness of the Egyptian Pantheon you will see that all of the Egyptian gods were destroyed by the power of the ONE true God exampled by Moses).

    In fact it also says in scripture that God made Moses a god in the eyes of the Egyptians, how about that little nugget.

    Exo_7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
    Now God did not give Moses all of the power of God so that Moses can exist outside of the stream of time or know all things and understand all things. God gave Moses great power but that power was from God and it went back to God when God was done with Moses.

    You getting the difference?

    God is and has always been, EVERYTHING we see know and understand in this world comes from Him and NOTHING can be done outside of the perameters God has established. Even Jesus Christ the Son of God was confined to act and behave within the construct that God has allowed.

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  13. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbut1 View Post
    Well that comes to multiple different ways to perceive this.

    When dealing with God the creator of all there is in fact only ONE God.

    Yet satan is also called the god of this world meaning he currently has power confined to this terrestrial domain, He however is limited by the creator whom created him. Satan cannot out power God or Gods creation so to God he is not a God but a part of Gods creation. To mankind though satan possesses more power than us and compared to our eyes and abilities satan is mighty powerful but he still can only do what the creator allows him to do.
    Interesting.

    Your explanation is interesting, also. Thanks!
    "Let joy and innocence prevail."

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