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  1. #1
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    Default Medicare for all

    WASHINGTON—Sen. Bernie Sanders will introduce legislation on Wednesday that would expand Medicare into a universal health insurance program with the backing of at least 15 Democratic senators — a record level of support for an idea that had been relegated to the fringes during the last Democratic presidency.

    Sanders acknowledged that the plan would be costly but pointed to the experience of other industrialized countries that provided universal coverage through higher taxes. The average American paid $11,365 (U.S.) per year in taxes; the average Canadian paid $14,693. But the average American paid twice as much for health care as the average Canadian.

    https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2...d-support.html

    Employers who provide health insurance would most likely see savings. Every working person could pay in through payroll taxes. I think all that will be covered is a little ambitious. You could make other cuts to programs for healthcare for the poor as all would have insurance.
    Proverbs 30:8Remove untruth and lies far from me.
    Give me neither poverty nor riches.
    Just let me consume my portion of food

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  3. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    What Heritage had to say on the subject.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...041802727.html
    That was not the point of discussion. You incorrectly said the plan was a page and half and never endorsed by Heritage.

    The Heritage Plan called for a mandate to purchase insurance, so it had in common with ObamaCare a very significant component, and the one which is today most detested by conservatives.

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  5. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyC123 View Post
    The tax would be offset by the savings from not having to buy health insurance, pay deductibles, etc. Yes, young people would not get as much benefit as older people, but they are currently paying into Medicare and SS and not getting benefit from it. People will still work because they're going to want to buy a house, a car, raise a family, etc.
    Young people are currently paying 7.5% in total for MC an SS. If they work full time their employers often pay at least half or more of their insurance costs, many pay all of it.

    If you are under 35 the average income per person is under 35K, at current rates figuring in the standard deduction and claiming yourself as 1 exemption your weekly paycheck is already taking a 144.00 bite on Federal Taxes alone leaving somewhere around 550.00 in "take home pay".

    Even at the break even cost of 7500.00/yr that's another 144.00/wk coming out of your check leaving only 406.00.

    Now for younger workers in their first five or even ten years of employment 25k annually is a much more realistic figure. Subtracting just 20% of that in taxes currently that leaves a weekly check of just 382.00 for a full time employee, subtract even another 100.00 from that and it leaves you scratching your way through life on 282.00/wk.

    Again, it would be the biggest disincentive for young people to work in history.
    Don't Blame Me I voted for Cruz! Without the 1st & 2nd Amendments the rest of The Constitution is meaningless
    THE DEFICIT

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  7. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyC123 View Post
    That was not the point of discussion. You incorrectly said the plan was a page and half and never endorsed by Heritage.

    The Heritage Plan called for a mandate to purchase insurance, so it had in common with ObamaCare a very significant component, and the one which is today most detested by conservatives.
    The original plan was and it was not endorsed by The Heritage Foundation. One or two points of commonality does not make it the basis for Obamacare and the claim that it was is patently false according to Heritage.org.
    Don't Blame Me I voted for Cruz! Without the 1st & 2nd Amendments the rest of The Constitution is meaningless
    THE DEFICIT

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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    Young people are currently paying 7.5% in total for MC an SS. If they work full time their employers often pay at least half or more of their insurance costs, many pay all of it.

    If you are under 35 the average income per person is under 35K, at current rates figuring in the standard deduction and claiming yourself as 1 exemption your weekly paycheck is already taking a 144.00 bite on Federal Taxes alone leaving somewhere around 550.00 in "take home pay".

    Even at the break even cost of 7500.00/yr that's another 144.00/wk coming out of your check leaving only 406.00.

    Now for younger workers in their first five or even ten years of employment 25k annually is a much more realistic figure. Subtracting just 20% of that in taxes currently that leaves a weekly check of just 382.00 for a full time employee, subtract even another 100.00 from that and it leaves you scratching your way through life on 282.00/wk.

    Again, it would be the biggest disincentive for young people to work in history.
    The employer is paying for the employee's health insurance and that is a cost they would no longer have. So you could either place more of the tax burden on the employer, or the employer would be able to provide a raise to offset the increase in taxes to the employee.

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  11. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    The original plan was and it was not endorsed by The Heritage Foundation. One or two points of commonality does not make it the basis for Obamacare and the claim that it was is patently false according to Heritage.org.
    The 11 page document was published by The Heritage Foundation in 1989 and the plan was called "The Heritage Plan".

    The purchase mandate is more than just a minor point of commonality. It is the lynchpin in both plans and the one that conservatives hate now and were trying to get rid of.


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  13. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by peek-a-boo View Post
    I repeat.

    Zero chance this gains any traction.
    Stranger things have happened.

    For instance a few years ago a lot of Liberals said Trump had literally zero chance of becoming President.

    I'm just saying.....
    People will tell you anything but what they do is always the truth. P. J. O'Rourke

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  15. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyC123 View Post
    The 11 page document was published by The Heritage Foundation in 1989 and the plan was called "The Heritage Plan".

    The purchase mandate is more than just a minor point of commonality. It is the lynchpin in both plans and the one that conservatives hate now and were trying to get rid of.

    Let's see, we believe you or Heritage? Hmm not the toughest of choices.
    Don't Blame Me I voted for Cruz! Without the 1st & 2nd Amendments the rest of The Constitution is meaningless
    THE DEFICIT

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  17. #113
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    I look at it this way.
    MY reality is over the past 20 years i have paid over 1.5 million in fed/state taxes.
    No matter who is President,over the next 20 years i will pay the same ,if not more.

    If i had a CHOICE as to where my tax money would go...i would choose healthcare for all over, overfunding the military, nation building or farm subsidies.

    Never going to happen but would be nice if we had a box we could check on our tax returns as to where the money goes.

    JMHO

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  19. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter45 View Post
    Would the rest of the world need to pay to defend itself?
    What are you whining about? Oh! Bernie's free health care costs too much...even for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroBravoLambchop View Post
    I look at it this way.
    MY reality is over the past 20 years i have paid over 1.5 million in fed/state taxes.
    No matter who is President,over the next 20 years i will pay the same ,if not more.

    If i had a CHOICE as to where my tax money would go...i would choose healthcare for all over, overfunding the military, nation building or farm subsidies.

    Never going to happen but would be nice if we had a box we could check on our tax returns as to where the money goes.

    JMHO
    40 trillion more spending over ten years will raise your taxes three fold and also quadruple the debt.
    Might ought to think about where the money went instead of the pipe dream of where it is going.

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  23. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    Now for younger workers in their first five or even ten years of employment 25k annually is a much more realistic figure.

    You need to meet a higher class of younger workers.

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  25. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    I provided you a link that covered it already.

    Here even when Politifact rates the republican claims as only half true they do so on the basis that many were in their opinion incomplete, didn't do enough, or that they only bent the cost curve downward marginally.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...d-dozens-solu/

    Obamacare however never even attempted to control costs by limiting physician or pharmaceutical liability which would be essential parts of actually reducing costs as on average about 10% of every dollar spent with physicians is spent by them on malpractice insurance.

    It also did nothing to address "defensive medicine" which is estimated to cost consumers in excess of 45Bn Annually.

    Those aren'r plans, those are talking points.

    Health Savings Accounts is a red herring. Insurance Companies selling across State lines is held up as some sort of panacea, but there is no evidence that it would work. High Risk pools have to be heavily subsidized in perpetuity... so it will always be in danger of being on the chopping block.

    The Republicans don't have a comprehensive plan. They did... we have it.... but they won't admit it.
    Kakistocracy n. (kak·is·toc·ra·cy / kækɪsˈtɑkɹəsi) Government by the worst persons; a form of government in which the worst persons are in power.

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  27. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyC123 View Post
    The employer is paying for the employee's health insurance and that is a cost they would no longer have. So you could either place more of the tax burden on the employer, or the employer would be able to provide a raise to offset the increase in taxes to the employee.
    Trickle down doesn't work, remember? I see no reason for any business to voluntarily do this. Call me a pessimist.

    We already pay around 8% in payroll taxes now, right? What would that go up to?

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  29. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobulis View Post
    Good thing there's no theft involved.
    It's not theft to steal someone's IP? You seriously need help.


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  31. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by texashusker34 View Post
    It's not theft to steal someone's IP? You seriously need help.
    You want to get philosophical about it?

    Have you stolen something if the original owner still posses it?

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