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  1. #1
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    Default Medicare for all

    WASHINGTON—Sen. Bernie Sanders will introduce legislation on Wednesday that would expand Medicare into a universal health insurance program with the backing of at least 15 Democratic senators — a record level of support for an idea that had been relegated to the fringes during the last Democratic presidency.

    Sanders acknowledged that the plan would be costly but pointed to the experience of other industrialized countries that provided universal coverage through higher taxes. The average American paid $11,365 (U.S.) per year in taxes; the average Canadian paid $14,693. But the average American paid twice as much for health care as the average Canadian.

    https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2...d-support.html

    Employers who provide health insurance would most likely see savings. Every working person could pay in through payroll taxes. I think all that will be covered is a little ambitious. You could make other cuts to programs for healthcare for the poor as all would have insurance.
    Proverbs 30:8Remove untruth and lies far from me.
    Give me neither poverty nor riches.
    Just let me consume my portion of food

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  3. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by midman View Post
    The money for HC must exist beyond taxes since it's being paid.
    "Beyond Taxes".

    Just under half the country has a net negative tax liability as it is while 53% carry the entire load for all.

    Even doubling the effective rates would not come close to paying for Medicare for all.

    Average spending per medicare patient per year is around 11,000.00. For a typical family of four the you're talking about needing to collect 44,000.00 annually in Taxes just to stay even.

    In contrast current cost of insurance per person is around 4,000.00.
    Don't Blame Me I voted for Cruz! Without the 1st & 2nd Amendments the rest of The Constitution is meaningless
    THE DEFICIT

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  5. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    "Beyond Taxes".

    Just under half the country has a net negative tax liability as it is while 53% carry the entire load for all.

    Even doubling the effective rates would not come close to paying for Medicare for all.

    Average spending per medicare patient per year is around 11,000.00. For a typical family of four the you're talking about needing to collect 44,000.00 annually in Taxes just to stay even.

    In contrast current cost of insurance per person is around 4,000.00.
    Typical WildRose seriously flawed logic, but you know that.
    THIS IS UNDER THREAT

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  7. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    "Beyond Taxes".

    Just under half the country has a net negative tax liability as it is while 53% carry the entire load for all.

    Even doubling the effective rates would not come close to paying for Medicare for all.

    Average spending per medicare patient per year is around 11,000.00. For a typical family of four the you're talking about needing to collect 44,000.00 annually in Taxes just to stay even.

    In contrast current cost of insurance per person is around 4,000.00.
    If everyone were covered by Medicare it wouldn't cost $11,000 per person because you'd have younger, healthier people in the system.

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  9. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by jezcoe View Post
    Link to those good plans?
    I provided you a link that covered it already.

    Here even when Politifact rates the republican claims as only half true they do so on the basis that many were in their opinion incomplete, didn't do enough, or that they only bent the cost curve downward marginally.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...d-dozens-solu/

    Obamacare however never even attempted to control costs by limiting physician or pharmaceutical liability which would be essential parts of actually reducing costs as on average about 10% of every dollar spent with physicians is spent by them on malpractice insurance.

    It also did nothing to address "defensive medicine" which is estimated to cost consumers in excess of 45Bn Annually.
    Don't Blame Me I voted for Cruz! Without the 1st & 2nd Amendments the rest of The Constitution is meaningless
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  11. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by midman View Post
    Typical WildRose seriously flawed logic, but you know that.
    If that were true you could demonstrate it.
    Don't Blame Me I voted for Cruz! Without the 1st & 2nd Amendments the rest of The Constitution is meaningless
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  13. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyC123 View Post
    If everyone were covered by Medicare it wouldn't cost $11,000 per person because you'd have younger, healthier people in the system.
    That's the same assumption made by the proponents of Obamacare which of course didn't prove to be true.
    Don't Blame Me I voted for Cruz! Without the 1st & 2nd Amendments the rest of The Constitution is meaningless
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    That's the same assumption made by the proponents of Obamacare which of course didn't prove to be true.
    No, the problem is that younger, healthier people are not buying insurance. You don't really think it will cost as much to provide healthcare to someone in their 20's as it would for someone in their 60's, 70's, and beyond, do you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    If that were true you could demonstrate it.
    It's already been bought up. I'll let others listen to you crap.

    ''So you go nothing''......in 3..2..1...
    THIS IS UNDER THREAT

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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyC123 View Post
    No, the problem is that younger, healthier people are not buying insurance. You don't really think it will cost as much to provide healthcare to someone in their 20's as it would for someone in their 60's, 70's, and beyond, do you?
    If they aren't buying insurance how will you force them to pay exorbitant amounts into "Medicare For All"?
    Don't Blame Me I voted for Cruz! Without the 1st & 2nd Amendments the rest of The Constitution is meaningless
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  21. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    If they aren't buying insurance how will you force them to pay exorbitant amounts into "Medicare For All"?
    The same way they are currently paying into Medicare.

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  23. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyC123 View Post
    The same way they are currently paying into Medicare.
    That's not going to work because the tax would consume the paychecks of a huge percentage of the population.

    One of the biggest criticisms is that we spend on average now 10,000.00+ per person annually on health care.

    Even if "Medicare for all" could cut that cost by a quarter that's 7,500.00 per person, per year in addition to the taxes currently being paid.

    You really think a young, healthy person can or would be willing to add that to their tax bill?

    It would be the biggest disincentive for the young and healthy to even look for a job in history.
    Don't Blame Me I voted for Cruz! Without the 1st & 2nd Amendments the rest of The Constitution is meaningless
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  25. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    Horse hockey. The supposed plan from The Heritage Foundation was a page and a half long and produced by one contributor. It was never endorsed by THF and it was dead on arrival in congress being rejected by both parties.
    That's incorrect, it was not just one guy. There was an 11-page document published by the Heritage Foundation and the plan was called "The Heritage Plan". You can download it and read it if you like -

    http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/1989/pdf/hl218.pdf

    The Heritage Plan was praised by conservative James Kilpatrick -

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?i...nsurance&hl=en

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  27. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyC123 View Post
    That's incorrect, it was not just one guy. There was an 11-page document published by the Heritage Foundation and the plan was called "The Heritage Plan". You can download it and read it if you like -

    http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/1989/pdf/hl218.pdf

    The Heritage Plan was praised by conservative James Kilpatrick -

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?i...nsurance&hl=en
    The original plan was written by Butler and one other person and it never went anywhere. It had zero support in the house and only a handful of senators were even willing to give it a vote and it never even got out of committee.

    What you're linking to isn't even the original plan it's the guide for a lecture series Butler was promoting.
    Don't Blame Me I voted for Cruz! Without the 1st & 2nd Amendments the rest of The Constitution is meaningless
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  29. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyC123 View Post
    That's incorrect, it was not just one guy. There was an 11-page document published by the Heritage Foundation and the plan was called "The Heritage Plan". You can download it and read it if you like -

    http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/1989/pdf/hl218.pdf

    The Heritage Plan was praised by conservative James Kilpatrick -

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?i...nsurance&hl=en
    What Heritage had to say on the subject.

    .. .The Obama health-care law "builds" on the Heritage health reform model only in the sense that, say, a double-quarter-pounder with cheese "builds" on the idea of a garden salad. Both have lettuce and tomato and may be called food, but the similarities end there.

    This is why we at the Heritage Foundation respectfully ask President Obama and his acolytes to stop misrepresenting our research. We think this massive health law is abominable and should be repealed. And until Congress repeals it, lawmakers should starve this monstrosity of taxpayer funds. ...
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...041802727.html
    Don't Blame Me I voted for Cruz! Without the 1st & 2nd Amendments the rest of The Constitution is meaningless
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  31. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    That's not going to work because the tax would consume the paychecks of a huge percentage of the population.

    One of the biggest criticisms is that we spend on average now 10,000.00+ per person annually on health care.

    Even if "Medicare for all" could cut that cost by a quarter that's 7,500.00 per person, per year in addition to the taxes currently being paid.

    You really think a young, healthy person can or would be willing to add that to their tax bill?

    It would be the biggest disincentive for the young and healthy to even look for a job in history.
    The tax would be offset by the savings from not having to buy health insurance, pay deductibles, etc. Yes, young people would not get as much benefit as older people, but they are currently paying into Medicare and SS and not getting benefit from it. People will still work because they're going to want to buy a house, a car, raise a family, etc.

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