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  1. #1
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    Default Blasphemy, or Speaking for God

    At this point in my life, I have rejected the concept of prophet as I understood them to be. A prophet spoke authoritatively for God, as God's spokesperson. Those who rejected the prophet were rejecting God.

    That said, I still hold on to a respect for spiritual witness, which is not always come in the form of divine authority. Like the principle of the Holy Spirit being present when two are gathered in God's name, so might the Divine commune with one being through another when they are gathered in humility for that purpose.

    So I am now going through what one might call a triage process of belief. What is valid, what is invalid, what is unknown, what is valuable? What denominations claim authority? Which religious ideas force belief? Which religious ideas invite spiritual communion with the divine, like an open book ready for God's writing to appear?

    To let the Divine write, we encounter a paradox. Once the book is open and words are put down by human hands, those words tend to exclude the possibilities of other words, and thus have a potential to deny some or all of the Divine. Sure, one may think the words penned are Sure. Yet humans are flawed, an honest person must know they could be wrong. This is where a steady process of sorting out witnesses and experience becomes appropriate, right?

    Thoughts?

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  3. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Was Caesar a myth? How about other historical figures who we believe existed but don't have any first hand written accounts of? Just because you believe religions are based on myths doesn't mean they ALL are based on myths.

    Though, to be fair, I do tend to lean toward the idea that most religions are based more on legends than historical facts. I mean, how much historical "fact" can you get from word of mouth stories told about some guy the majority of the religion's adherents have never seen, heard or known (except through the propaganda distributed by that religion)?
    The contemporary evidence for Ceasers existence is is pretty strong. There is no contemporary evidence of Jesus. None, zip, nada. Perhaps a man named Jesus existed.......but the whole supernatural thing is hard to swallow. The story is from a book with a talking snake telling us about a God that threw a temper tantrum and killed everybody on entire planet except a few...when He knew it was going to happen anyway!

    The only way to convince people to believe is 'faith'.
    "Hypocrisy is great when directed at the right people"
    -SpadeMarlowe-

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  5. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZslim View Post
    The contemporary evidence for Ceasers existence is is pretty strong. There is no contemporary evidence of Jesus. None, zip, nada. Perhaps a man named Jesus existed.......but the whole supernatural thing is hard to swallow. The story is from a book with a talking snake telling us about a God that threw a temper tantrum and killed everybody on entire planet except a few...when He knew it was going to happen anyway!

    The only way to convince people to believe is 'faith'.
    Then don't believe. No skin off my nose. For an unbeliever, you sure display a lot angst about it.
    The great enemy of truth is not so much the lie (deliberate, contrived and dishonest) but the myth (persistent, persuasive and unrealistic).

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  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    Give Luther's small catechism a read, I think you will find it well ordered and written for the logical mind.

    If I remember where you were previously you were a life long Mormon where you not?

    If that's correct I understand where you are now, feeling as though the church family you grew up with likely no longer considers you one of the flock unless and until you return.

    There have always been a lot of things I respected about the mormons but the secret nature of the temple rituals was just not something I could wrap myself around and some of Joseph Smith's writings seemed to clash with Christianity at least as I was raised to believe.

    Like a lot of young people I parted with the church not because of any one thing but I just didn't feel much like I belonged there or deserved to be there after my divorce which I considered to be the greatest failure of my life. I just didn't know how to face the congregation anymore particularly as I was watching my parents marriage fall apart as well.

    I'm not in the mind to go back to attending but I have spent several years reacquainting myself with the catechism and studying the bible more and more on my own and it's leading me right back to where I started.

    I wish you comfort and success in your quest.
    This is the most human, vulnerable thing I've seen you post on these forums. With respect, thank you for sharing it.
    One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato

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  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Then don't believe. No skin off my nose. For an unbeliever, you sure display a lot angst about it.
    To be fair, people do use religion as a lever of control and that can be extremely damaging. Myths can also hinder growth when we outgrow them. There are people pining for and missing out on vibrant relationships with their loved ones because their loved ones are hung up on their differences of belief, or because one of them does not fulfill the requirements of their belief system, even while otherwise being an earnest and decent person.

    There is a world of pain in myths when people outgrow them but are still expected to believe in them.

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  13. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZslim View Post
    The contemporary evidence for Ceasers existence is is pretty strong.
    Of course it does make a difference that he happened to be the leader of an empire. There are a lot of historical people we have actually no direct records of. Plato is a very good example of this. Socrates, Plato's teacher is even less known.

    Socrates (/ˈsɒkrətiːz/;[2] Greek: Σωκράτης [sɔːkrátɛːs], Sōkrátēs; 470/469 – 399 BC)[1] was a classical Greek (Athenian) philosopher credited as one of the founders of Western philosophy. He is an enigmatic figure known chiefly through the accounts of classical writers, especially the writings of his students Plato and Xenophon and the plays of his contemporary Aristophanes. Plato's dialogues are among the most comprehensive accounts of Socrates to survive from antiquity, though it is unclear the degree to which Socrates himself is "hidden behind his 'best disciple', Plato".
    Nothing written by Socrates remains extant. As a result, information about him and his philosophies depends upon secondary sources.
    Details about the life of Socrates can be derived from three contemporary sources: the dialogues of Plato and Xenophon (both devotees of Socrates), and the plays of Aristophanes.
    The same arguments that dismiss the life of Jesus can be equally applied to Socrates.


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