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  1. #1
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    Default Which Bible stories do you find most problematic?

    It seems to me many people quote the implausible story of Noah’s Ark as one of the reasons for their loss of faith.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriweather View Post
    It seems to me many people quote the implausible story of Noah’s Ark as one of the reasons for their loss of faith.
    I haven't read the bible so I guess I shouldn't reply, but if Adam and Eve had three sons then how did mankind continue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    I think ALL Biblical stories are problematic if you take them literally. I've always figured the Bible shouldn't be read in the same way you'd read a history book... essentially, it's a collection of parables. The essence of faith is in discovering the message each story is trying to convey... not in looking for evidence of it's historical veracity.
    It does remove a lot of rational conflict if you understand the majority of these stories as mythological/metaphorical. Find the underlying meaning and significance, and stop trying to wrap one's head around how they could make sense literally.
    You're messin' with the wrong wolf, baby/Darkness gonna break your light - ​Dorothy, "Missile"

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackWolf View Post
    It does remove a lot of rational conflict if you understand the majority of these stories as mythological/metaphorical. Find the underlying meaning and significance, and stop trying to wrap one's head around how they could make sense literally.
    Exactly... just take the whole evolution v. intelligent design debate. People who hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible say evolution is bunk because the Bible says God created everything in six days. But the Bible also says that with the Lord a day is as a thousand years (2 Peter 3:8). So if a day can be as a thousand years, why not a billion years? When you're talking about infinity, what relevance does any time scale have? Once you accept that logic and then look at the sequence of events in the creation story of Genesis, then it starts looking more and more like science.

    Day 1 - Let there be light.... the Big Bang and stellar formation. Day 2 - The Earth is formed, oceans appear. Days 3 & 4 - Plant life develops. Days 5 & 6 - Higher level animal life appears, first in the sea, then on the land. Finally, man appears. When you take a wider angle view with this interpretation, I figure we're still on Day 7.

    I remember as a kid sitting around a campfire listening to my Grandfather tell his stories... and being somewhat precocious, I was trying to poke holes in what he was saying....that couldn't happen...why would he do that? Gramper, that doesn't even make sense.... and I remember him smiling patiently, touching that side of his nose and saying... "Maybe so, little man... but you should never let the truth get in the way of a good story."

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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriweather View Post
    It seems to me many people quote the implausible story of Noah’s Ark as one of the reasons for their loss of faith.
    For me the teachings on the Holy Spirit are the most problematic.

    By that I mean it is the one teaching that I have a difficult time wrapping my limited human brain around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasereese View Post
    I haven't read the bible so I guess I shouldn't reply, but if Adam and Eve had three sons then how did mankind continue?
    Just because people didn't make it into the story does not mean they did not exist. I've read many theories on this, and the one that makes the best sense to me is that Adam (which means man) was a tribe of man. As the tribe grew, it divided into two more tribes, that of Cain and Abel. In the story of Cain killing Abel, we may have an account of the first war, where Cain, in essence, massacred the tribe of Abel.

    I believe the person(s) who told the story in Genesis were brilliant and taking an entire history of very ancient man, condensing it into a story form that could be easily retold and remembered. In other places in Genesis, we pick up clues that there were a great many more people in the world than one couple could have produced in a generation or two.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Drawz View Post
    How long can you tread water?
    The record, without divine intervention is around 85 hours.

    With divine intervention or a good flotation device you could last many times that number of hours especially if you have some fresh water to drink.
    Don't Blame Me I voted for Cruz! Without the 1st & 2nd Amendments the rest of The Constitution is meaningless
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackWolf View Post
    That explanation was for his disciples. Why seek to confound others, and over so important an issue as their eternal souls?
    Again, read the citation and the commentaries and it's pretty clear at least to me and I hadn't even red it in over thirty years.

    Much of what is given us freely will be taken from us, lost, or simply unappreciated and tossed away.

    It is the few that takes those blessings, hangs onto them and grows them into something they can then share with others.

    It is the people who squander what is given them that endanger their souls, not those who appreciate god's gifts and multiply them to help others.
    Don't Blame Me I voted for Cruz! Without the 1st & 2nd Amendments the rest of The Constitution is meaningless
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasereese View Post
    I haven't read the bible so I guess I shouldn't reply, but if Adam and Eve had three sons then how did mankind continue?
    They married and were fruitful. If you read on there were other survivors of the flood beyond Noah's family.

    While Noah became the object of the story, it appears that his was not the only Ark.

    Also, if we take the stories literally their lifespans were several times that of modern man ostensibly due to a purer genepool which did not suffer decay producing ever growing rates of malformed and/or stillborn babies that we see under the same kind of conditions today.
    Don't Blame Me I voted for Cruz! Without the 1st & 2nd Amendments the rest of The Constitution is meaningless
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    The record, without divine intervention is around 85 hours.

    With divine intervention or a good flotation device you could last many times that number of hours especially if you have some fresh water to drink.
    That's impressive, of course it would still leave one almost 200 days short of what was required. And let's not forget, according to the story, everything not on the Ark was drowned dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasereese View Post
    I haven't read the bible so I guess I shouldn't reply, but if Adam and Eve had three sons then how did mankind continue?
    Adam had more than three sons. He begot many children.

    And he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he begot sons and daughters. So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died (Genesis 5:3,4).

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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    They married and were fruitful. If you read on there were other survivors of the flood beyond Noah's family.

    While Noah became the object of the story, it appears that his was not the only Ark.

    Also, if we take the stories literally their lifespans were several times that of modern man ostensibly due to a purer genepool which did not suffer decay producing ever growing rates of malformed and/or stillborn babies that we see under the same kind of conditions today.
    What was the point of the Flood?

    If you're going to repent yourself that you made man, and kill every man, woman and child and every animal - then do it!

    But to let people survive - the same sin-tainted people who will just go have more sin-tainted babies... you're going to wind up exactly where you were before you decided to flood the earth to destroy sin-tainted people.

    So murdering millions of people accomplished absolutely nothing.

    God was pretty stupid...
    "Let joy and innocence prevail."

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  28. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex McAlpine View Post
    What was the point of the Flood?

    If you're going to repent yourself that you made man, and kill every man, woman and child and every animal - then do it!

    But to let people survive - the same sin-tainted people who will just go have more sin-tainted babies... you're going to wind up exactly where you were before you decided to flood the earth to destroy sin-tainted people.

    So murdering millions of people accomplished absolutely nothing.

    God was pretty stupid...
    He could have not created the tree of knowledge thereby preventing the need to kill off most of humanity. That was a pretty dumb mistake as well.
    .

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    Of course, a literal view of Genesis is where most of these problems arise.
    The great enemy of truth is not so much the lie (deliberate, contrived and dishonest) but the myth (persistent, persuasive and unrealistic).

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  32. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by tzor View Post
    I always find the story of Noah's Ark most humorous. Here is a person confined to a ship with no way to see the whole outside world, yet alone measure it (when it would later ground itself he still had to send out birds to see if it was safe to open the door) and yet he was able to tell that the water was 15 cubits above the "submerged mountains" ... what was he using? Sonar? (And no he can't plumb the water even assuming he was over the mountains in the first place because the hatch was sealed shut.)
    The Genesis account including the flood was dictated to Moses.

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  34. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRS View Post
    The Genesis account including the flood was dictated to Moses.
    Moses had a hard time getting 10 words written down.

    Here is the Jewish view of the story. The tl;dr summary is the following:
    Everywhere in the bible where it says "hatorah" – it means "the law." There is one exception, in the Book of Nehemiah, where he mentions "hatorah" – referring to the Pentateuch: “And Ezra the priest brought the Torah before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month” (Nehemiah 8:2).

    This is the first known use of "hatorah" to mean "the Pentateuch" as opposed to "the law". The practice caught on. Thus, apparently, later generations of rabbis misread the passages in the Torah where Moses received "hatorah" as meaning Moses received not "the law" but "the Pentateuch."


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