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  1. #1
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    Default How do you separate yourself from all forms of cultism?

    The definition of cult; "a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing."

    There always has been a variety of categories of cults.

    There are entertainers who have gained a "cult following". Some of these cult figures may have died a long time ago, but are still venerated for having produced a unique style of music, drama, fashion, etc.

    There have always been political leaders who (for better or for worse) gained the support of many followers. You might refer to this type of phenomena as "a cult of personality".

    There are religious cults. Some cults are obviously "off the deep end". Others may be more subtle.

    I used to think that I was immune from all forms of cultism as long as I attended a fundamentalist bible believing Christian church.. A time came when I got a rude awakening. I found out that even in evangelical Christian churches there are people in leadership who supposedly have an "edge" over everyone else in regard to understanding and insight, but do not really deserve the praise of their followers.. I found that even among fundamentalist Christians, not all that glitters is gold.

    A question comes to mind: What do you have to do in order to separate yourself from all forms of cultism?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koushi Shinigami View Post
    Some of them are. The Westboro Baptists come to mind.
    I read somewhere that the Westboro so-called Baptist Church isn't a church at all, that all its parishioners, literally 100% are Fred's immediate family, their spouses and kids.

    Get a mail away degree, talk down to your adult kids, call yourself a church. When I was 8 my brothers and sisters had a clubhouse and called ourselves the Vikings club, but we weren't real Vikings, we were elementary school kids in a club. We also formed a motorcycle gang. To be a member you had to live in our street and have a banana seat bike with coaster brakes.

    Anyway that's what I read.

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  5. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I read somewhere that the Westboro so-called Baptist Church isn't a church at all, that all its parishioners, literally 100% are Fred's immediate family, their spouses and kids.

    Get a mail away degree, talk down to your adult kids, call yourself a church. When I was 8 my brothers and sisters had a clubhouse and called ourselves the Vikings club, but we weren't real Vikings, we were elementary school kids in a club. We also formed a motorcycle gang. To be a member you had to live in our street and have a banana seat bike with coaster brakes.

    Anyway that's what I read.
    I wouldn't say 'so called'. By every definition I can find they are a genuine baptist church. They also happen to be a cult. The two are not mutually exclusive.
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koushi Shinigami View Post
    I wouldn't say 'so called'. By every definition I can find they are a genuine baptist church. They also happen to be a cult. The two are not mutually exclusive.
    My point is that a mail-order degree and expressing one's loudmouth opinions to one's relatives makes one neither a church nor a cult.

    Can everyone with PhD call himself a university?
    Would you believe the claim?

    That said, my family lived in Amish country. They are such normal descent Godly people I sometimes forget/forgot the word cult includes them too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    My point is that a mail-order degree and expressing one's loudmouth opinions to one's relatives makes one neither a church nor a cult.

    Can everyone with PhD call himself a university?
    Would you believe the claim?

    That said, my family lived in Amish country. They are such normal descent Godly people I sometimes forget/forgot the word cult includes them too.
    He was ordained a minister be the Southern Baptist church and the Westboro Baptist church was founded by the East Side Baptist Church and Phelps was its pastor. That's a bit more than just a mail order degree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    When I was 8 my brothers and sisters had a clubhouse and called ourselves the Vikings club, but we weren't real Vikings, we were elementary school kids in a club.
    I'm a member of a group known as the "Lost Tribe of Accabonac" where everyone is a "chief" but no one is an "Indian."


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    Quote Originally Posted by tzor View Post
    I'm a member of a group known as the "Lost Tribe of Accabonac" where everyone is a "chief" but no one is an "Indian."
    We had a clubhouse, a secret handshake and Playboy magazines.

    The summer days were long,
    the sprinkler was cold & refreshing,
    we'd sit on blankets in the sun, and play spit or crazy-8's.
    Mom made us ice tea & taught us how to gather fresh sprigs of mint from the garden to put in it.

    When the sun went down, we'd play hide and seek or flashlight tag.

    Almost heaven.
    Where in the heck am I?

    Maybe I should have asked for directions.

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    You can make the plausible argument that Christianity was an obscure Jewish cult until Paul, Constantine, and a few thousand years provided a veneer of respectability.
    A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men. - Willy Wonka

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackWolf View Post
    You can make the plausible argument that Christianity was an obscure Jewish cult until Paul, Constantine, and a few thousand years provided a veneer of respectability.
    Yup.
    .

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    Forget Catholics and Protestants for a minute. Forget Fred Phelps, Joel Osteen, Pope Francis, Rick Warren, Constantine, Martin Luther, St. Francis, etc. etc. etc. for a moment.

    Question: Is the admiration that millions of people in this world have for Jesus Christ excessive and misplaced?
    Last edited by rt.101revival; March 21st, 2017 at 8:36 am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rt.101revival View Post
    Forget Catholics and Protestants for a minute. Forget Fred Phelps, Joel Osteen, Pope Francis, Rick Warren, Constantine, Martin Luther, St. Francis, etc. etc. etc. for a moment.

    Question: Is the admiration that millions of people in this world have for Jesus Christ excessive and misplaced?

    Your opinion said misplaced OR excessive. Now your asking misplaced AND excessive.

    Your asking Christians and athiest this question. What answer do you expect? I predict the members of a cult to claim it is not a cult. And vice versa from non-members.

    Ask a Jew that same question. If you get their honest opinion I'll bet it is yes on both counts.

    Given the predictability of the responses, would they have any impact upon you?
    Last edited by Koushi Shinigami; March 21st, 2017 at 9:23 am.
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackWolf View Post
    You can make the plausible argument that Christianity was an obscure Jewish cult until Paul, Constantine, and a few thousand years provided a veneer of respectability.
    Actually had they been a "Jewish" cult they would have been more respectable. Jews were probably the only group permitted to be "atheist" (That is to say allowed not to believe in and worship the Roman gods.) Paul opening up the obscure group to non Jews put them outside of the exception and thus reducing any possible respect.

    Bear in mind that one of the major sects was effectively eliminated by the destruction of the temple and one of the other minor sects was isolated, besieged and eliminated.

    Also bear in mind that like any new group (The Beatles for example) they were swiftly copied. The Gnostics adopted a lot of the externals of the followers of "The Way" as novel additions to their own secret society. This kept them in the eye of Rome for quite some time, long before the empire moved east with Constantine.


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  25. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rt.101revival View Post
    Question: Is the admiration that millions of people in this world have for Jesus Christ excessive and misplaced?
    There is admiration? I must have missed it.

    I could make a serious argument that most people cling to the "name" and not the "person." They would argue "what would Jesus do," by parsing the words of those who wrote about him decades later and almost always out of context. Even a few decades after Jesus' death Paul would say that it is only through the Holy Spirit within us that we can proclaim "Jesus is Lord."


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    Quote Originally Posted by rt.101revival View Post
    Forget Catholics and Protestants for a minute. Forget Fred Phelps, Joel Osteen, Pope Francis, Rick Warren, Constantine, Martin Luther, St. Francis, etc. etc. etc. for a moment.

    Question: Is the admiration that millions of people in this world have for Jesus Christ excessive and misplaced?
    Quote Originally Posted by Koushi Shinigami View Post
    Your opinion said misplaced OR excessive. Now your asking misplaced AND excessive.

    Your asking Christians and athiest this question. What answer do you expect? I predict the members of a cult to claim it is not a cult. And vice versa from non-members.

    Ask a Jew that same question. If you get their honest opinion I'll bet it is yes on both counts.

    Given the predictability of the responses, would they have any impact upon you?
    Perhaps it is more subtle than that. First, you cannot compare all types of admiration for Christ as equal. And, then, there is not only quantitative differences (intensity) but also qualitative differences (interpretations of Christianity.)

    So, people can be cultlike as professed Christ-believers, and yet there can exist Christ-believers who are open to differences and not dependant on extreme conformity for group cohesion.

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  29. #29
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    I have heard it said numerous times; "Jesus is Lord of all, or He is not Lord at all".

    If Jesus is not Lord, then He is just another cult figure.

    Here is something I posted as an OP here a few years ago; maybe it is appropriate now :

    "Who do you say that I am?"....................

    Luke 9:18-20; "And it happened as He (Jesus) was alone praying that His disciples joined Him, and He asked them saying, 'Who do the crowds say that I am?'

    So they answered and said, 'John the Baptist, but some say Elijah; and others say that one of the old prophets has risen again.'

    He said to them, 'but who do you say that I am?'"



    An age old question. Who is Jesus?



    There is the "Jesus" that Thomas Jefferson liked, who was a good guy but was powerless when it came to doing the miraculous.



    There is the "Jesus" who was a little bit more than "just a good guy"; some denominations describe Jesus as an angel who is higher than the human race, but not quite qualified for deity status.



    There is the "Jesus" who will assist the 12th Imam (or the Mahdi) when it comes time to kick infidel butt. The Islamic version of Jesus is loved in some parts of the world.



    There is the "Aryan Jesus" who was martyred when he was crucified by "Jewish Christ killers". The Third Reich loved that version of Jesus, so do some of the current white racist groups.



    There is the Jesus that has been fabricated by Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church; a pathetic figure who blew his chance to do something, so now Moon and his family (the "True Parents") has to step up to the plate and "establish the kingdom of God on earth".



    There is the Cadillac driving/Rolex wearing Jesus of the prosperity preachers on TV, of course.



    There is the "liberal Jesus" that some of the people in the U.S. Congress love; the one who is agreeable with government subsidized abortion, same sex marriage, and number of other abominations.



    There is the "Jesus" who is "bringing the chickens home to roost" on America (as per Jeremiah Wright).



    There is the Jesus who is just another " inventor of a religion"; no better and no worse than a number of other historical figures.



    It seems that there is custom made Jesus for every preference. Matthew 24:24; " for false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect".



    Will the real Jesus please stand up? I believe that one of these days, He will make Himself obvious to everyone. The artificial versions of Jesus (that are adored by many) will be revealed, as well.



    Is the Jesus through whom everything "in heaven and earth, visible and invisible were created" (Colossians 1:16), the real Jesus? Is the "blood of His cross" (Colossians 1:20) God's means of reconciliation?



    Or did Jefferson have it right? Or, are the Mullahs of Iran the experts on the identity of Jesus? Did the Third Reich have it all figured out? Is Sun Myung Moon the guy we should be listening to? What about the prosperity preachers on TV? Are the people who dismiss the gospel of Christ as a pack of fables the smart ones? Is the leftist Jesus that Nancy Pelosi (and some of the other loony-tunes in Congress) profess to follow the real one? Is the Jesus that hates America (as per Rev-a-rund Jeremiah Wright) the real Jesus?



    One thing is for sure. Not every version of the identity of "Jesus" is a correct version.



    Luke 7:21-23; "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
    Last edited by rt.101revival; March 23rd, 2017 at 12:22 am.

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