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    Default How does someone become a liberal to start with??

    At some point in their life people come to a decision as to what they are and then rarely change after that...What influences a person to believe all the stuff the liberal Democrats stand for? America is the problem? Racists? Unjust? Socialism is the answer even though it has failed miserably throughs human history? Where does their information come from, late night comedians? Age 25 seems to be the deciding point. What can conservatives do to reach this group better?

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    When I was younger I considered myself to be Liberal, but the more I heard Liberals talk the harder it was for me to relate. Now I consider myself a Capitalist. Traditionally willing to vote Split Ticket, but with the way the Left has been acting that seems to be going to the wayside also. I agree with your comment about not changing back once you realize your leanings. That makes Trump interesting because he was a DNC supporter and seems to lean Left. I am just glad he made the choice to try and do what is right to try and help our country.
    Last edited by Evilwestsidefan; February 24th, 2017 at 1:28 am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4speed View Post
    At some point in their life people come to a decision as to what they are and then rarely change after that...What influences a person to believe all the stuff the liberal Democrats stand for? America is the problem? Racists? Unjust? Socialism is the answer even though it has failed miserably throughs human history? Where does their information come from, late night comedians? Age 25 seems to be the deciding point. What can conservatives do to reach this group better?
    You may find this interesting.



    Std youtube warning.

    Oh, btw. I have never been on the left, but I have always been a Classical Liberal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwind View Post
    You may find this interesting.



    Std youtube warning.

    Oh, btw. I have never been on the left, but I have always been a Classical Liberal.
    Very interesting graphic...Creative indeed....This is a topic worthy of discussion because of the implications for young people and their future.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilwestsidefan View Post
    When I was younger I considered myself to be Liberal, but the more I heard Liberals talk the harder it was for me to relate. Now I consider myself a Capitalist. Traditionally willing to vote Split Ticket, but with the way the Left has been acting that seems to be going to the wayside also. I agree with your comment about not changing back once you realize your leanings. That makes Trump interesting because he was a DNC supporter and seems to lean Left. I am just glad he made the choice to try and do what is right to try and help our country.
    Well said...Would hope we all would look for the best solutions no matter where they come from and think that is where Trump is...We must have a sustainable nation over the long term, jobs, security, freedom, and respect for the rule of law, and most of all a string family unit, the bedrock of society.....Right now the left dominates the younger age group and that must change for the good of the future....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwind View Post
    You may find this interesting.



    Std youtube warning.

    Oh, btw. I have never been on the left, but I have always been a Classical Liberal.

    Hits the nail on the head for me, thanks for posting this.

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    I have always been a liberal. I am an end of the Boom Boomer. I was raised by Greatest Generation Liberal parents, and I married a liberal Gen X from a liberal Boomer family (a mix of mid-9th and early 20th century immigrants). One side of my family are a mix of early 20th Century labor movement (Mineworkers and Railway Workers), agrarian, and some high level management of the railways. That side largely came to North America in the 17th century. The other side is 20th century immigrant/First Generation American. This side were in part refugees from the oppression of the Ottoman Empire.

    This mixture led to placing a high level of importance on the dignity of the individual, and social responsibility. No one in my immediate family or ancestors ever were dependant on any government programs or subsidies (including the farmers). As the 20th Century progressed, and the poor moved into the cities, individual assistance, and eventually assistance by local charities and religious organizations ceased to provide sufficient relief. As the Southern minorities battled for the repeal of Jim Crow, segregation, etc., individual effort in that regard was taken by the liberal organizations, not the conservative ones.

    As a believer in the primacy of the individual, and not of the corporate complexes, I could not imagine being anything but a liberal. As to the OP questions:

    America is the problem? "America" is not the problem, with the exception of the tendency for foreign adventures that ultimately prove unwise, which applied to pretty much every intervention since 1919 (except for WWII). Let's carve up the Ottoman Empire, which largely maintained internal stability in the MIddle Ease for 500 years until the Brits sponsored the Arab Revolt during WWI. Let's play chicken with the Soviet Union. Let's topple governments.

    Racists? There is racism. Cannot be denied. Not everyone is a racist, but if you advocate the primacy of one group, nation, religions, etc. over another, then there is something to look at. The issue is not racism, its jingoism.

    Unjust? There is certainly a perception that government tends to favor certain groups over another. If you can afford a lawyer, you get different treatment in the Court system. I can attest to that myself as a lawyer. If you can afford access, you are treated better.

    Socialism is the answer even though it has failed miserably through human history? This depends what you mean by Socialism. There has never been an actual "socialist" nation, because it always descends into communism. That is what has failed throughout history. Social democracy has not failed, as Western Europe can attest. Anything run amok is not going to work. See Greece as an example.

    What can conservatives do? They can show that they care about people, and not just business. Big Bill McKinley is no longer correct - the business of American is no longer (limited to) business. The more conservative concentrate their energies on "unleashing commerce" and forget about the worker, the more people are going to declare themselves liberal. The more conservatives try to dictate what is and what is not the province of personal decision-making, the more people are going to declare themselves liberal. What you decry is the extreme of liberalism and what we decry is the extreme of conservatism (which by the way is what we see as the current Washington regime). Interestingly, many "mainstream" conservatives agree that this is the extreme of conservatism. Not too many liberals thought that Barrack Obama was the extreme of liberalism. We pretty much found him to be centrist. Can anyone say that about DT?

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    They are making decisions with emotions, and not wisdom- I think a good decision involves both empathy and logic. However, liberals might make a decision based on all emotions. Part of the process I think includes preaching some politics very young in school, and preaching the beliefs early on; I know that we were following the Bush/Kerry election cycle in elementary school. Kids, especially those before 5-6 years old, are highly suggestible, so there's a good (but not 100%) chance that if they are taught one side of things politically (growing up in a liberal household. And I'm not innocent of that because I grew up in a conservative household) and that side happens to be the liberal point of view, then they are going to take that is truth until they learn the whole story. I'm now beginning to have empathy for the other side and see why they believe what they believe.

    That being said, some kids do not follow politics until college (I started getting into it around 2008, but only studied the general election, in 2012 I started following the primaries a little and this last time I followed from start to finish) and there is a lot of bias and indoctrination on college campuses, especially with universities.
    Last edited by FlameHeart; March 23rd, 2017 at 11:19 am.
    "Ignis aurum probat"

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlameHeart View Post
    They are making decisions with emotions, and not wisdom- I think a good decision involves both empathy and logic. However, liberals might make a decision based on all emotions. Part of the process I think includes preaching some politics very young in school, and preaching the beliefs early on; I know that we were following the Bush/Kerry election cycle in elementary school. Kids, especially those before 5-6 years old, are highly suggestible, so there's a good (but not 100%) chance that if they are taught one side of things politically (growing up in a liberal household. And I'm not innocent of that because I grew up in a conservative household) and that side happens to be the liberal point of view, then they are going to take that is truth until they learn the whole story. I'm now beginning to have empathy for the other side and see why they believe what they believe.

    That being said, some kids do not follow politics until college (I started getting into it around 2008, but only studied the general election, in 2012 I started following the primaries a little and this last time I followed from start to finish) and there is a lot of bias and indoctrination on college campuses, especially with universities.
    *Snort.*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson Corwell View Post
    *Snort.*
    >.>
    "Ignis aurum probat"

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    Lack of self-esteem, lack of confidence, mental illness, family dysfunction, early drug and alcohol abuse, physical' mental, and intellectual laziness, poor education, self-centeredness, irresponsibility, etc.


    Welcome to Nothing Burger, home of the Nothing Burger. Can I take your order?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4speed View Post
    At some point in their life people come to a decision as to what they are and then rarely change after that...What influences a person to believe all the stuff the liberal Democrats stand for? America is the problem? Racists? Unjust? Socialism is the answer even though it has failed miserably throughs human history? Where does their information come from, late night comedians? Age 25 seems to be the deciding point. What can conservatives do to reach this group better?
    There are a number of things I strongly disagree with in your premise. I think the biggest problem is that a great majority of people do not believe "all the stuff" but rather they assume a lot of the stuff without really thinking too hard on the problem. I don't think this is unique to liberals, but I think more liberals are under that category than conservatives.

    For most people the liberal education system (which is, ironically the exact opposite of a "liberal" education) pushes most young children towards the emotional side of the argument (conservatives often forget the "emotional" side of the argument but the reality is that conservatism is actually better for all the people and is actually the correct side of the moral argument). Some people seek out stronger supports to their positions and that in turn leads to the logical arguments. Others do not. It's not that their arguments are emotional but that they are and remain shallow.

    Knowing a number of liberals who are wonderful people I can see where they simply don't think things to their conclusions (either emotionally or logically) and hold on to shallow thoughts that don't stand up to scrutiny. This tends to irrational defense of these shallow thoughts, which in turn is also shallow.

    As I mentioned earlier, sometimes this happens with "conservatives" although not as often. I think we may see this again as we go through the Trump administration. Not everything that will come from it will be the ideal conservative or just the ideal thing. Everything needs to be logically (and emotionally) worked through to its logical conclusions no matter what those conclusions become.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ExDem View Post
    Lack of self-esteem, lack of confidence, mental illness, family dysfunction, early drug and alcohol abuse, physical' mental, and intellectual laziness, poor education, self-centeredness, irresponsibility, etc.
    Very interesting! Good picture...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dderatz View Post
    I have always been a liberal. I am an end of the Boom Boomer. I was raised by Greatest Generation Liberal parents, and I married a liberal Gen X from a liberal Boomer family (a mix of mid-9th and early 20th century immigrants). One side of my family are a mix of early 20th Century labor movement (Mineworkers and Railway Workers), agrarian, and some high level management of the railways. That side largely came to North America in the 17th century. The other side is 20th century immigrant/First Generation American. This side were in part refugees from the oppression of the Ottoman Empire.

    This mixture led to placing a high level of importance on the dignity of the individual, and social responsibility. No one in my immediate family or ancestors ever were dependant on any government programs or subsidies (including the farmers). As the 20th Century progressed, and the poor moved into the cities, individual assistance, and eventually assistance by local charities and religious organizations ceased to provide sufficient relief. As the Southern minorities battled for the repeal of Jim Crow, segregation, etc., individual effort in that regard was taken by the liberal organizations, not the conservative ones.

    As a believer in the primacy of the individual, and not of the corporate complexes, I could not imagine being anything but a liberal. As to the OP questions:

    America is the problem? "America" is not the problem, with the exception of the tendency for foreign adventures that ultimately prove unwise, which applied to pretty much every intervention since 1919 (except for WWII). Let's carve up the Ottoman Empire, which largely maintained internal stability in the MIddle Ease for 500 years until the Brits sponsored the Arab Revolt during WWI. Let's play chicken with the Soviet Union. Let's topple governments.

    Racists? There is racism. Cannot be denied. Not everyone is a racist, but if you advocate the primacy of one group, nation, religions, etc. over another, then there is something to look at. The issue is not racism, its jingoism.

    Unjust? There is certainly a perception that government tends to favor certain groups over another. If you can afford a lawyer, you get different treatment in the Court system. I can attest to that myself as a lawyer. If you can afford access, you are treated better.

    Socialism is the answer even though it has failed miserably through human history? This depends what you mean by Socialism. There has never been an actual "socialist" nation, because it always descends into communism. That is what has failed throughout history. Social democracy has not failed, as Western Europe can attest. Anything run amok is not going to work. See Greece as an example.

    What can conservatives do? They can show that they care about people, and not just business. Big Bill McKinley is no longer correct - the business of American is no longer (limited to) business. The more conservative concentrate their energies on "unleashing commerce" and forget about the worker, the more people are going to declare themselves liberal. The more conservatives try to dictate what is and what is not the province of personal decision-making, the more people are going to declare themselves liberal. What you decry is the extreme of liberalism and what we decry is the extreme of conservatism (which by the way is what we see as the current Washington regime). Interestingly, many "mainstream" conservatives agree that this is the extreme of conservatism. Not too many liberals thought that Barrack Obama was the extreme of liberalism. We pretty much found him to be centrist. Can anyone say that about DT?
    Interesting and thoughtful reply...Well written...Have to reply at some point...Thanks

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    Dear 4speed: The same way Christians believe in a message from God and God's laws as the supreme universal default, and then present it first as truth, then take objections and arguments afterwards; the Liberals believe the purpose of Govt is to establish the collective will and good of the people first, they push for this as the truth, then take objections and arguments afterwards. Liberals I know will say Govt is supposed to promote the general welfare first; the Conservatives I know will defend limits on Govt that cannot deprive individuals of liberty without due process; so the two sides focus on a different purpose of laws - the left uses Govt to establish rights and freedoms, the right cites Constitutional laws to limit govt from taking away rights and freedoms that naturally belong to people by default.

    The Conservatives believe rights and freedoms are inherent in human nature (as created by God), but the Liberals believe equal human rights are established by public law through Govt. That's the main difference. It's like the difference between atheists and secular nontheists who believe in proving things through science in order to establish truth; versus Christians and theists who believe truth is faith based and depends on agreeing through Christ on God's laws and universal truth that are independent of man's perception and laws/language REFLECTING these truths. So when you ask "how does one become a liberal" that's like asking what makes someone secular nontheist vs. what makes someone Christian or Deist or Muslim instead of atheist agnostic or other secularist. God/Nature makes us the way we are. And we spend our lives figuring out how to express these beliefs in relation to people around us from different groups or tribes in a diverse society. Some people change their minds and come out as a different affiliation, but these are all languages and means we use to try to "establish agreement" on laws that reflect our beliefs on truth, justice, liberty/freedom of choice, and peace/security for equal protection of the laws.

    Some people use religious or scriptural laws to establish truth, then use science and secular laws to back those up and apply to daily life. Others use civil and secular laws, including science, to establish truth, then see religious laws as optional expression.

    By Constitutional equal inclusion we should not discriminate by anyone's creed, but agree on truth and laws by consent of the governed, regardless if someone takes a religious, political or secular approach to expressing their beliefs. Unfortunately with today's politics and media, there is a unfair bias against Christians, Conservatives and Constitutionalists, while liberal ideology runs amok even embedding and establishing itself through govt and penalizing nonbelievers for noncompliance, because these "secular beliefs" are not counted equally as a political religion or creed.

    So there is rampant bias and discrimination going on, where liberal beliefs are allowed to be imposed through govt, because these are not treated equally as religious beliefs that govt can neither prohibit nor establish; while conservative beliefs are counted as religious and barred from the same due to Constitutional limits which the left does not enforce equally when it comes to liberal political beliefs.
    Last edited by emilynghiem; August 2nd, 2017 at 11:42 am.

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