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  1. #1
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    Default Debate is over: Climate change not real

    It's been a good debate but it appears the CEC has settled the discussion. The newly born appreciate the world being handed off to them. Thanks Grandma. Thanks Dad!

    Quote Originally Posted by Reuters
    Trump administration tells EPA to cut climate page from website: sources

    U.S. President Donald Trump's administration has instructed the Environmental Protection Agency to remove the climate change page from its website, two agency employees told Reuters, the latest move by the newly minted leadership to erase ex-President Barack Obama's climate change initiatives.


    The employees were notified by EPA officials on Tuesday that the administration had instructed EPA's communications team to remove the website's climate change page, which contains links to scientific global warming research, as well as detailed data on emissions. The page could go down as early as Wednesday, the sources said.


    "If the website goes dark, years of work we have done on climate change will disappear," one of the EPA staffers told Reuters, who added some employees were scrambling to save some of the information housed on the website, or convince the Trump administration to preserve parts of it.

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  3. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by dantes View Post
    CO2 accounts for 9-30% of greenhouse effect. Water vapor for almost all the rest.

    Do you have a point?
    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    I'm criticizing you because you can't or won't even answer two very simple questions in support of your arguments.

    One molecule of water vapor is 50% more effective in absorbing radiation.

    Water vapor makes up roughly 10.6 times more of the atmosphere than CO2 so which is having the most influence over temperatures?
    This lines up mostly with what I posted before.

    You're not being terribly accurate. The absorption spectrum of H2O is pretty broad but most of that is irrelevant, we only care about the absorption of black body radiation of the Earth. You're right that water vapor accounts for more of the greenhouse effect than CO2.

    What's your point?

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  5. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by midman View Post
    As soon as it was apparent the solution was going to require a govt. major role, the wingers became apoplectic. It didn't make any difference that it was true.
    What is the solution? And, how will Government provide it?

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  7. #618
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    Again, if ALL the CO2 was removed from the atmosphere would the temperature of the Earth decrease or increase and why?
    Is it possible to use the Beers-Lambert analysis to prove the problem?

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  9. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by fava View Post
    Again, if ALL the CO2 was removed from the atmosphere would the temperature of the Earth decrease or increase and why?
    Is it possible to use the Beers-Lambert analysis to prove the problem?
    With less greenhouse effect, the temperature would drop, all other factors being equal.

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  11. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by dantes View Post
    This lines up mostly with what I posted before.

    You're not being terribly accurate. The absorption spectrum of H2O is pretty broad but most of that is irrelevant, we only care about the absorption of black body radiation of the Earth. You're right that water vapor accounts for more of the greenhouse effect than CO2.

    What's your point?
    No we were not discussing black body radiation you were discussing the absorption of IR radiation specifically when I initially asked you the question. CO2 has a very narrow absorption spectrum so it by definition isn't a black body.

    You're deflecting again.

    You claimed that CO2 is responsible for 9-30% of the greenhouse effect which isn't even remotely possible when water vapor has an effect 16 times greater.

    9x16=144 30x16=960
    Last edited by WildRose; September 13th, 2017 at 5:52 pm.
    Don't Blame Me I voted for Cruz! Without the 1st & 2nd Amendments the rest of The Constitution is meaningless
    THE DEFICIT

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  13. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    No we were not discussing black body radiation you were discussing the absorption of IR radiation specifically when I initially asked you the question. CO2 has a very narrow absorption spectrum so it by definition isn't a black body.

    You're deflecting again.
    Not deflecting at all, I just can't read your mind. Stop trolling and try to have a conversation.

    IR is a very wide part of the spectrum. The black body radiation of the Earth is really super important to this conversation. The absorption spectrum of CO2 is narrow, but it's dead center the radiation spectrum of the Earth (or close to it). The extent of overlap of the absorption spectrum and the radiation spectrum of the Earth is critical. Regardless, your initial question was about heat, which is no synonymous with IR radiation, not in the least. Ask better questions if you want answers. In fact, don't ask questions at all if you're trying to make a point. Just make the point.

    I've already state that CO2 represents about 10-30% of the greenhouse effect on the Earth. Water vapor makes up almost all the rest.

    What's your point?

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  15. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    That is what happened to Dr. Syun Akusofu. He was a founder and director of the University of Alaska Arctic Research Center (which includes the field of aeronomy) and the director of the Geophysical Institute for many years. The building that the Institute resides in is named for him; he was a world renown scientist. But after he retired, he voiced his opinion as an AGW skeptic and instantly, he became an outcast to the scientific community. Dantes is right ... Scientist do love to criticize each other, but if the opinion of one of them threatens to upset the apple cart (the money train) they can become downright vicious.
    What factual examples of this do you have? I'm not referring to any feelings you may have.
    Trump supporters have space bugs in their heads. It is the only explanation.

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  17. #623
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    It's the solar system, stupid.

    Don't tax the air.
    TRUMP WON 2016

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  19. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    No we were not discussing black body radiation you were discussing the absorption of IR radiation specifically when I initially asked you the question. CO2 has a very narrow absorption spectrum so it by definition isn't a black body.

    You're deflecting again.

    You claimed that CO2 is responsible for 9-30% of the greenhouse effect which isn't even remotely possible when water vapor has an effect 16 times greater.

    9x16=144 30x16=960
    Post your source that water vapor has an effect that is 16 times greater.

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  21. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by dantes View Post
    With less greenhouse effect, the temperature would drop, all other factors being equal.
    Other factors being equal include the factor of barometric pressure and the atmospheric envelope. If all CO2 was removed from the atmosphere, it would be replaced by volume of the other gasses and, most commonly water vapor. Since water vapor is a much better greenhouse gas that absorbs fingerprint radiation and emits black body radiation at much greater range than the CO2 range of complete absorption/emission of 10 meters, the Earth's temperature would rise.

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  23. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by midman View Post
    As soon as it was apparent the solution was going to require a govt. major role, the wingers became apoplectic. It didn't make any difference that it was true.
    yep, politically ideology should over ride science every time

    It baffles me at times
    “Wrinkles will only go where the smiles have been. ”
    ― Jimmy Buffett

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  25. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by fava View Post
    Other factors being equal include the factor of barometric pressure and the atmospheric envelope. If all CO2 was removed from the atmosphere, it would be replaced by volume of the other gasses and, most commonly water vapor. Since water vapor is a much better greenhouse gas that absorbs fingerprint radiation and emits black body radiation at much greater range than the CO2 range of complete absorption/emission of 10 meters, the Earth's temperature would rise.
    Why would water vapor replace CO2 in the atmosphere?

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  27. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by fava View Post
    You've got more patience than Job. The dude has no answers. He just knows he must defend authority. It is what leftists do. The authority makes the facts and the leftists follow them, no questions asked.
    Dude....You're a birther.
    Trump supporters have space bugs in their heads. It is the only explanation.

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  29. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by reflechissez View Post
    What factual examples of this do you have? I'm not referring to any feelings you may have.




































    Arrhenius
    Chladni
    Crick and Watson
    William Harvey
    McClintock
    Gold
    Tesla
    Rous

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  31. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by reflechissez View Post
    Dude....You're a birther.
    I am? Why? Just because I think you are not born on this planet?

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