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Thread: Discussion of Liberty Ammendments and Article V Movement.

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    Default Discussion of Liberty Ammendments and Article V Movement.

    This thread is to discuss the Article V movement proposed by Mark on his show.

    There are other threads in "Washington Politics" to throw spears at the Article V idea. For the purposes of this thread assume agreement. This OP is about ideas for fans of the proposal, or folks who just want to hash out some ammendments for fun.

    The book and the movement's purpose is to educate and spread the word about using the States Power provision in Article V of the Constitution.

    This allows for the States to call a convention with the purpose to propose and ratify new ammendments to the Constitution without the Congress's involvement.

    The possibilities to do what Congress cannot or will not, namely curtailing yhier own power and tyrannical entrenchments are very exciting.

    Imagine term limits for Congress. Ammendments to basically repeal the faulty legal premise behind Obamacare.

    I see no reason we can't hash out our own ideas as we discuss and watch this thing evolve. And hopefully some of you have read the book as well, and know more of the ammendments proposed

    I realize this part of the forum is seperate from the main Hannity forum , harder to find perhaps for Levin Fans but maybe that will change with some self advertisement. I'm not aware of another Levin forum.

    Anyway I'm to edit this first post as I get more information and also post ammendment proposals below and othef information.

    Lets see if this board can be enlivened.

    Propose your own ammendments or discuss.

    There will be a list Levins 11 ammendments in post #3 (a work in progress I just got the book) under announcements, for reference. They are paraphrased and in my own words. A more general list of ammendments from all sources is in post #2

    If your ammendments have merit I'll add them to my post #2 for reference with your initials in parenthesis.

    Please keep your ammendments short and sweet. If they have merit it will be clear.

    If you want to discuss your ammendment state it first as it would read in ammendment form (concise), and discuss it below that or in parenthesis.

    My goal is to hash out both Levins proposals and ours and see how they look.

    Keep them as short as possible. Get right to the point and stop there.

    Hint: there are a million helpful ideas. Most would qualify as perhaps good law at best.

    Almost none of them would be structurally important enough for an ammendment.

    Ammendments should be powerful in keeping government operating as it should with balance and no opportinity for abuse.

    There are other threads in "Washington Politics" to throw spears at the Article V idea. For the purposes of this thread assume agreement. This OP is about ideas for fans of the proposal, or folks who just want to hash out some ammendments for fun.

    Data
    Last edited by Databyter; August 15th, 2013 at 2:10 am.

    Databyter
    "The most simple explanation is usually the correct one".

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    Proposed Ammendments. (members who suggested or inspired).

    1) Members of Congress will serve only 12 years (Levin)(Data)
    (I like a shorter term of 6 years.)

    2) Congress shall pass no law compelling a citizen to buy a service or insurance. Anysuch previous law shall be rendered nuetralized by this ammendment.(Databyter)

    3) repeal the XXVII ammendment.((Databyter)

    4) Congress shall have thier salaries reduced to average norm for a federal employee and frozen until such time as we have a balanced budget. (Databyter)

    5) Any taxing, restricting or requirements to register ammunition for legal arms will be considered an i fringement of the right to own and bear arms as authorized by the II Ammendment. Restricting magazine capacities except to meet State hunting guidelines is therefore alsk considered an infringement.(Databyter)

    6) Any law enacted by Congress will affect Congressional members and staff as well as every other Federal employee.(Databyter)

    7) Any income tax percentage rate shall apply to all citizens and business entities equally. There shall be no loopholes exemptions or exceptions.(Databyter)

    8) Supreme Court Justices shal have a term of service limit of 12 years. (Levin)(Sun)(Data)
    Last edited by Databyter; July 30th, 2013 at 1:44 am.

    Databyter
    "The most simple explanation is usually the correct one".

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    Reserved for events or announcements.

    1) http://citadelcc.vo.IInwd.net/o29/ne...ndmentsCh1.pdf
    This is a link to Levins first Chapter. The link is encouraged by Levin so no foul on copywrite.

    Data
    Last edited by Databyter; August 29th, 2013 at 6:48 pm.

    Databyter
    "The most simple explanation is usually the correct one".

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    I think another was a term limit for SCOTUS justices.

    They almost prop them up after they are deceased, particularly the liberal ones.
    "..they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,.."
    Elect a POTUS who knows this - Santorum, Lee, Pence or Cruz!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sun View Post
    I think another was a term limit for SCOTUS justices.

    They almost prop them up after they are deceased, particularly the liberal ones.
    I like it. Checking Constitutionality but put it in provisionally.

    Data

    EDIT: It's constitutional. I set it at 8 years to coincide with a double Presidential term and to provide a long enough term to allow for serious work and legacy.

    I used "consecutive" in the langauge to allow for multiple terms with a 4 year break.
    Last edited by Databyter; July 28th, 2013 at 3:22 pm.

    Databyter
    "The most simple explanation is usually the correct one".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Databyter View Post
    I like it. Checking Constitutionality but put it in provisionally.

    Data

    EDIT: It's constitutional. I set it at 8 years to coincide with a double Presidential term and to provide a long enough term to allow for serious work and legacy.

    I used "consecutive" in the langauge to allow for multiple terms with a 4 year break.

    Yes you did! I missed it, probably because it was your last point, and I read it when I woke up in the middle of the night (which I often do).
    "..they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,.."
    Elect a POTUS who knows this - Santorum, Lee, Pence or Cruz!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sun View Post
    Yes you did! I missed it, probably because it was your last point, and I read it when I woke up in the middle of the night (which I often do).
    You misunderstood me.

    I edited it in AFTER I saw your post and BECAUSE of your post.

    That's the way this thread is going to work.

    People propose and discuss and the worthy or onteresting ideas get edited in to post #2 with the credit to the proposer in parenthesis (Sun).

    You made the grade. Good ammendment!

    I took the liberty of setting common sense year amounts that are consistant with that type of pozition.

    Data
    Last edited by Databyter; July 28th, 2013 at 5:28 pm.

    Databyter
    "The most simple explanation is usually the correct one".

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    The interest is overwhelming me.

    Data

    Databyter
    "The most simple explanation is usually the correct one".

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    Perhaps it's because you have said we can post our suggestions and thoughts but we only get further discussion if YOU feel they have merit.

    Or maybe it's just no an interesting enough topic. Look at your other thread on the same topic in the main forum and it's basically just you and johnwk discussing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hereintheusa View Post
    Perhaps it's because you have said we can post our suggestions and thoughts but we only get further discussion if YOU feel they have merit.

    Or maybe it's just no an interesting enough topic. Look at your other thread on the same topic in the main forum and it's basically just you and johnwk discussing it.
    I expect it to pick up as the book is released soon and tbe movement starts gaining steam.

    Anyone can discuss any of the ammendments and post and edit thier own lists if tbey wish.

    I think my moderation of my own second post can be a focal point for some of tbe more interesting ammendment ideas.

    I don't necessarily have to agree with them, I am on the fence regarding some of my own proposals.

    The idea is to throw them up there and see what people think.

    Silly ones and unconstitutional ones won't be posted in my list. That is the filter.

    And you don't need to be a fan of the Article V idea to propose an ammendment that has merit.

    Do you have any ideas?

    Regarding the other thread it is not really an open discussion as much as a mistitled and erroneous premise (straw man) with Levins name on it.

    I'll put my own thread up there and let his die if he keeps repeating stuff that is incorrect on every level.

    Data
    Last edited by Databyter; August 6th, 2013 at 1:11 am.

    Databyter
    "The most simple explanation is usually the correct one".

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    Default Mr. Levin needs to answer some important questions about his Article V Convention

    There are many unanswered and unresolved questions concerning an Article V convention, and yet, Mark Levin has decided to jump on the Article V bandwagon which Madison warned us against:

    “You wish to know my sentiments on the project of another general Convention as suggested by New York. I shall give them to you with great frankness …….3. If a General Convention were to take place for the avowed and sole purpose of revising the Constitution, it would naturally consider itself as having a greater latitude than the Congress appointed to administer and support as well as to amend the system; it would consequently give greater agitation to the public mind; an election into it would be courted by the most violent partizans on both sides; it wd. probably consist of the most heterogeneous characters; would be the very focus of that flame which has already too much heated men of all parties; would no doubt contain individuals of insidious views, who under the mask of seeking alterations popular in some parts but inadmissible in other parts of the Union might have a dangerous opportunity of sapping the very foundationsof the fabric. Under all these circumstances it seems scarcely to be presumeable that the deliberations of the body could be conducted in harmony, or terminate in the general good. Having witnessed the difficulties and dangers experienced by the first Convention which assembled under every propitious circumstance, I should tremble for the result of a Second, meeting in the present temper of America, and under all the disadvantages I have mentioned. ….I am Dr. Sir, Yours Js. Madison Jr” ___See Letters of Delegates to Congress: Volume 25 March 1, 1788-December 31, 1789, James Madison to George Turberville

    BTW, here is a great article by David Limbaugh, Rush Limbaugh’s brother:


    Constitutional Convention Is a Dangerous Idea


    The article begins:


    “The left's assault on liberty never rests, so don't ever be sucked into supporting the dangerous idea of a new constitutional convention, even if its stated purposes purport to be limited.”


    JWK




    If the America People do not rise up and defend their existing Constitution and the intentions and beliefs under which it was adopted, who is left to do so but the very people it was designed to control and regulate?

    Last edited by johnwk; August 14th, 2013 at 9:55 pm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    There are many unanswered and unresolved questions concerning an Article V convention, and yet, Mark Levin has decided to jump on the Article V bandwagon which Madison warned us against:

    [
    [<snipped]
    John Madison is talking about a GENERAL CONVENTION.

    We are talking about Article V which is totally different.

    If you want to continue to spread misinformation do it on your disinformation thread.

    This one is to discuss the book and the ammendments not to argue about general conventions.

    Madison supported article V as you would know if you read Levins book.

    Data

    Databyter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Databyter View Post
    John Madison is talking about a GENERAL CONVENTION.

    We are talking about Article V which is totally different.

    If you want to continue to spread misinformation do it on your disinformation thread.

    This one is to discuss the book and the ammendments not to argue about general conventions.

    Madison supported article V as you would know if you read Levins book.

    Data
    I do not appreciate your insulting remark. The truth is, when Madison wrote that letter it was just after our existing Constitution had been ratified and there was a movement afoot by a number of States to call another convention under Article V to adopt amendments and add a bill of rights to the Constitution. Elbridge Gerry, George Mason, and Edmund Randolph were prominent leaders advocating this convention. However George Washington recommended that Congress draw up a bill of rights and send it to the States for ratification to avoid another convention. In response James Madison took up the cause in the House to have a bill of rights draw up and sent to the States solve the problem.

    On March 4th 1789 Madison and Washington’s efforts paid off when 12 amendments were sent to the states for ratification. SEE: Resolution of the First Congress Submitting Twelve Amendments to the Constitution; March 4, 1789

    ”THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added restrictive clauses should be added.”


    JWK



    If the America People do not rise up and defend their existing Constitution and the intentions and beliefs under which it was adopted, who is left to do so but the very people it was designed to control and regulate?


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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    I do not appreciate your insulting remark. The truth is, when Madison wrote that letter it was just after our existing Constitution had been ratified and there was a movement afoot by a number of States to call another convention under Article V to adopt amendments and add a bill of rights to the Constitution. Elbridge Gerry, George Mason, and Edmund Randolph were prominent leaders advocating this convention. However George Washington recommended that Congress draw up a bill of rights and send it to the States for ratification to avoid another convention. In response James Madison took up the cause in the House to have a bill of rights draw up and sent to the States solve the problem.

    On March 4th 1789 Madison and Washington’s efforts paid off when 12 amendments were sent to the states for ratification. SEE: Resolution of the First Congress Submitting Twelve Amendments to the Constitution; March 4, 1789

    ”THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added restrictive clauses should be added.”


    JWK



    If the America People do not rise up and defend their existing Constitution and the intentions and beliefs under which it was adopted, who is left to do so but the very people it was designed to control and regulate?

    What was being called for was another general convention.

    Madison was arguing FOR using the article V process as opposed to a general convention.

    As for general conventions I am as against them as you are.

    This is not the case under Article V

    Comicon is a convention as well. But it is DIFFERENT. Don't let tbe word "convention" always mean the same kind. There is no general constitutional convention in Article V and madison was arguing FOR the constitutional process rather than another constitutional convention.

    The bill of rights was offered up within and congruent with tbe same article V you are arguing against. What they were arguing against was a GENERAL convention, not an article V convention.

    It is true with the ink barelg dry that they wanted to do it the least complicated way and wih minimal turbulance as the ink was barely dry and the arguments still warm.

    However you keep talking about general conventions and interference from the Supremes and the Congress and this is FALSE which is why I say it is.

    I want to quote myself from my OP now.

    " There are other threads in "Washington Politics" to throw spears at the Article V idea. For the purposes of this thread assume agreement. This OP is about ideas for fans of the proposal, or folks who just want to hash out some ammendments for fun.Data"

    I'm happy to discuss these things on your thread OR mine in WAPO.

    I respectfully ask that you not spam THIS thread with the same criticisms because this thread is for fans discussing good ammendment ideas and assumes for the most part that you are onboard for tbe purposes of the thread.

    So propose an ammendment or critique whats up there please.

    But if you spam the same erroneous nonsense that you did in your thread even after empirical evidence to the contrary I'll see you in TTTM.

    You made your point. We disagree.

    You are welcome here. I am not a mod. But I request you not spam here as a favor to tbe world.

    Data
    Last edited by Databyter; August 15th, 2013 at 2:31 am.

    Databyter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Databyter View Post
    What was being called for was another general convention.

    Madison was arguing FOR using the article V process as opposed to a general convention.

    As for general conventions I am as against them as you are.

    This is not the case under Article V


    Data

    You appear to be confused regarding Article V, which allows for two ways, and only two ways, to amend the Constitution. Madison was in favor of using the first process outlined in Article V for amending the Constitution. Elbridge Gerry, George Mason, and Edmund Randolph were advocating the second process outlined in Article V, which is calling a convention to propose amendments to the Constitution which had recently been ratified. Madison wrote the George Turberville letter in response to Elbridge Gerry, George Mason, and Edmund Randolph’s desire for calling an Article V convention which is what Mark Levin is now promoting. Let us keep to the historical facts and timeline.

    JWK

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