Do You Believe In Evolution

[biggles53]

Sorry Mr. Tempus but once a Theory is proven, it is no longer a theory, it's a fact.

What.....!??

NO.

SCIENTIFIC.

THEORY.

IS.

EVER.

"PROVEN".

[biggles53]

actually there was a very interesting program on Discovery several years ago talking about that and it showed that things like The Grand Canyon actually was not a product of erosion but of a violent upheaval (that may have been The Great Flood). Geology in many cases do not support evolution.

And what, pray tell, has the formation of the Grand Canyon got anything at all to do with the theory of EVOLUTION....!?

much current science is contradicting itself in a lot of areas now adays. Just because current science can't explain something that doesn't jibe with what current scientists believe doesn't make it wrong...... current science at one time thought microscopic life was ludicrous.

Never say never.

Science has always "contradicted itself"........that's what it does...!!

That's how we have made our advances in knowledge....by science correcting former understandings with new ones.....

[jimmorris]

Except for 150+ YEARS of supporting evidence filling the libraries of several thousand universities and accepted as fact by the largest Christian denomination.

Actually, there is also 150+ years of evidence contradicting the theory of evolution. But this evidence is systematically ignored by those who do not wish to know the truth. And in many cases, the contradicting evidence is not only ignored, but actively suppressed. And don't tell me it is not actively suppressed. I have repeatedly read calls for such suppression in professional journals, and was personally required to sign a document stating that I realized that I would be fired if I shared my faith with any employee or client of my employer. I am now retired, and can speak without fear. I studied advanced biology during my university days. This study included a senior level course in genetics. As A part of this course, I studied thousands of mutations, but did not not find even one that was beneficial. But evolution can not possibly progress without beneficial mutations. The existence of such beneficial mutations is assumed, but cannot be demonstrated.

I have repeatedly confronted professional geologists with the evidence that the geological record does not show gradual change. In every case, their initial reaction was flat out denial. But when I pointed out the facts that prove this, every one of them finally admitted that these facts were not only correct, but that they had already known them. The only problem had been that they had never realized what they proved.

What the geological record actually shows is a long series of stable ecosystems, each of which suddenly appeared, flourished virtually unchanged for a long period of time, and then was suddenly replaced by a different stable ecosystem. This is NOT evolution.

[Mr. Tempus]

Sorry Mr. Tempus but once a Theory is proven, it is no longer a theory, it's a fact.

No, this is not how science works. There is no level above theory, it is part of the foundation of science that there are no proofs or absolute certainty, that is reserved for math. A theory is what we call hypothesis which have been subjected to repeated empirical testing and research and have held up.

[Antrel]

I've never understood the division between many members of Christianity and evolution. Even when I was a Christian, I believed in it. To me, it serves as an even more significant testament of God's ability.

"If you thought it was cool that God just made humans outta nothing, check out this complicated ****."

[meggers49]

As a hard core non-theist I agree with you.
The study and acceptance of evolution is not inconsistant with the idea that evolution is one of God's modus operendi for populating the planet.

exactly.

which is what we've said........... evolution could be......but if it is, God did it

[meggers49]

What.....!??

NO.

SCIENTIFIC.

THEORY.

IS.

EVER.

"PROVEN".

sorta makes them moot then, doesn't it? What make them, as unproven as they are, any more valid than belief in a deity? Nothing but your (and others) opinion.

Guess that means both of us ascribe truth in something intangible.

[meggers49]

I've never understood the division between many members of Christianity and evolution. Even when I was a Christian, I believed in it. To me, it serves as an even more significant testament of God's ability.

"If you thought it was cool that God just made humans outta nothing, check out this complicated ****."

i don't think they are mutually exclusive. I figure if God wanted us to be made out of nothing, we were and if he wanted us to evolve, we did. Either way, He was the one who did it and frankly, it doesn't matter a whit to me because I'm here, now and what happened a bajillion years ago is not something i'm the least bit concerned about.

[biggles53]

Actually, there is also 150+ years of evidence contradicting the theory of evolution. But this evidence is systematically ignored by those who do not wish to know the truth. And in many cases, the contradicting evidence is not only ignored, but actively suppressed. And don't tell me it is not actively suppressed. I have repeatedly read calls for such suppression in professional journals, and was personally required to sign a document stating that I realized that I would be fired if I shared my faith with any employee or client of my employer. I am now retired, and can speak without fear. I studied advanced biology during my university days. This study included a senior level course in genetics. As A part of this course, I studied thousands of mutations, but did not not find even one that was beneficial. But evolution can not possibly progress without beneficial mutations. The existence of such beneficial mutations is assumed, but cannot be demonstrated.

Really....??

Do you still get around on all fours...? Because the rest of us enjoy the beneficial mutation which first caused us to walk upright........!

How about the bacteria that mutate and become resistant to antibiotics...? Might not be too beneficial to us, but I'll bet they're laughin'......

Know anyone with sickle-cell anemia....? Beneficial? Well, they do become resistant to malaria as a result......

And I guess the killer is....how do you feel about the mutation which resulted in single celled animals becoming multi-celled...!?

Oh, and since you can now speak "without fear" (?), please trot out that evidence you have accumulated which disproves the theory. You may be retired, but surely not too old to receive a Nobel Prize....??

I have repeatedly confronted professional geologists with the evidence that the geological record does not show gradual change. In every case, their initial reaction was flat out denial. But when I pointed out the facts that prove this, every one of them finally admitted that these facts were not only correct, but that they had already known them. The only problem had been that they had never realized what they proved.

Again, please share your "facts"....

What the geological record actually shows is a long series of stable ecosystems, each of which suddenly appeared, flourished virtually unchanged for a long period of time, and then was suddenly replaced by a different stable ecosystem. This is NOT evolution.

Absolutely correct! Evolution is all about how organisms adapted to those changed ecosystems.......

Err....where did you say you got that degree again...?....

[biggles53]

sorta makes them moot then, doesn't it? What make them, as unproven as they are, any more valid than belief in a deity? Nothing but your (and others) opinion.

Simple.

EVIDENCE...

in truckloads....

Guess that means both of us ascribe truth in something intangible.

Nope. Only one of us....

[biggles53]

i don't think they are mutually exclusive. I figure if God wanted us to be made out of nothing, we were and if he wanted us to evolve, we did. Either way, He was the one who did it and frankly, it doesn't matter a whit to me because I'm here, now and what happened a bajillion years ago is not something i'm the least bit concerned about.

Hear that sound.....? That was another mind slamming shut.....

And for your information, evolution didn't stop a "bajillion years ago".....it is happening as we speak. Many of the advances we make in medical science, embryology, immunology, etc are due to an adherence to its principles and predictions....

[optrader]

Totally incorrect (apart from the bit about you being a non-expert I assume). Despite the efforts of many (largely fundamentalists of one religion or another) to bring down the theory over the past 150 years, not a single glove has been laid upon it. And this, despite the fact that it could be so eeeeeasily disproven on any of a number of fronts - it stands with its chin out, fists hanging by its side, and yet no-one has yet been able to hit it....

Without an underlying belief in God, there is absolutely nothing else to explain man except evolution. Just because I'm not an expert and approach the subject from a fundamental Christian point of view doesn't mean that every other person who doesn't believe in evolution is also a fundamentalist and therefore has no objective refutation. There is an abundance of evidence, but if you will only accept the direct appearance of God as your easy evidence, then I admit I can not provide such.

[Historian1912]

Just out of curiousity, how the heck do you falisify evolution? I'm pretty sure theories have to be falsifiable.

[Bonnie Lou]

i don't think they are mutually exclusive. I figure if God wanted us to be made out of nothing, we were and if he wanted us to evolve, we did. Either way, He was the one who did it and frankly, it doesn't matter a whit to me because I'm here, now and what happened a bajillion years ago is not something i'm the least bit concerned about.

Good day Meggers...I agree..Closed minds on either end of the evolution query have most likely come to the completion of their capacity for further knowledge. Blessings and May Peace be with You

[optrader]

What the heck do you think evolution is....!??

The idea that all life began when a clump of amino acids bobbing around in a primordial ooze or soup (whatever that is) was struck by a bolt of lightning and life was spontaneously created. This now living blob washed up on shore, couldn't breathe so after a few million years, it developed lungs. Then after getting extremely bored and needing to forage for survival (even though nothing else had evolved for it to forage on) some legs popped out to make its journey easier. Of course somewhere along the way, some eyes developed, though no oneknows why. Anyway, unable to reach the fruit, in the trees that somehow simultaneously evolved from the same blob of amino acids, it needed a way to climb so a few more eons pass and bingo, now it has opposable thumbs and a prehensile tail. The rest is history..

OR: that clump of amino acids brought to life by that bolt of lightning, depending on the ooze to be sustained, washed up on short and suffocated. NAH... too ridiculous!