School Choice (Voucher) is not the solution to the public education debacle

[lkz]

This is slightly (or way) off topic just had a conversation with a kid upset she made a 2090 on the SAT's. She intends to retake the test because she did so bad. There are still a large number of kids who are going to really blow the world away. The ones with drive just amaze me.

[lkz]

If you can not generalize the problem, you can not generalize the answers.
Not every school has the same problem. Not every student will do well in the best performing schools. Not every student will do poorly in the worst performing schools. The answers must be found locally and federal involvement in the schools only hinders that process.

Beautifully said.

[historynut]

I asked you what percentage of schools you thought were taking the "easy way out". You said less than 10 percent. The purpose of my questions was to help you realize that you are talking about a minute number of schools. Mission accomplished. But, I would NEVER, generalize that because these problems exist that it is systemic, which is something that you have implied in previous conversations that we have had.

Finality, Mission accomplished, you get my point.

I have never said I was talking about all the schools in the U.S. I have never said I was talking about all the schools in California.

I keep saying that I am talking about schools that I have first hand knowledge of.

You said I generalize because I state that the few bad schools in my area have the same thing in common - they are not doing the same things the good schools are doing.

And yes it is systemic, all the bad schools are not doing the same things the good schools are doing.

What is wrong with me pointing out that the all bad schools in my area are not doing the same things all the good schools in my area are doing?

I keep asking why all bad schools in my area are not doing the same things all the good schools in my area are doing?

What is wrong with that question?

You said parents should get together, organize themselves and be proactive in making the changes. So I ask what seems to me to be a reasonable question "Why all bad schools in my area are not doing the same things all the good schools in my area are doing".

What is wrong with asking that question?

To what end in this forum, why aren't you talking to your local press, actually try to get something accomplished.

When I was younger I did actually try to get something accomplished.

Now that I am older and can not move as good as before I go on the internet and try to get something accomplished.

At which time you tell me to get off the internet and stop trying to get something accomplished.

Nope, what I am attempting to do is to help you realize that there are always two sides to most stories and events. This is anecdotal, but one of the constants in my 30 years of teaching is miscommunication between schools and parents. Parents hear one thing from their kids and then they go ballistic, making the assumption that the school or the teacher or the administrator is "out to get their kid". It is a common concern expressed among the thousands of teachers that I communicate with on another forum. You may not always know, as Paul Harvey famously said...the rest of the story.

Yes there are two sides to most stories and events. But when I try to point out "the rest of the story" from the parents side I'm suppose to just shut up.

Again, did you have access to the testing regimen that he went through to determine his status. I don't know about California, but in Colorado, schools can't just staff a child into special education. BTW, if he was staffed special education, did he have a 504 or an IEP, and if he did, what is inability to communicate without a laptop a part of that. If so, then he was LEGALLY eligible to accommodations.

In grade school and jr. High the parents had copies of test results and a doctors note which is why he was allowed to use a laptop then.

Yes he was LEGALLY eligible to accommodations but without going to a lawyer most parents do not know what the school is required to do.

Well, and I don't mean to sound cold here, but that is poor parenting. Are you telling me that the school doesn't offer any information? Are you also telling me that this school just stuck this kid in special ed, no staffing meetings, no testing?
If so, the school has some serious legal issues.

http://www.cde.ca.gov/sp/se/qa/pssummary.asp

How is it poor parenting, the patents were fighting the school so the kid could use a laptop and fighting the school to get the kid out of special ed.

No the the school did not offer any information.

Yes the school just stuck this kid in special ed, no staffing meetings, no testing.

Yes the school has some serious legal issues.

Yes you can sue but most find it a lot cheaper to move* and quicker to move**.*$5,000 to $10,000 to hire a lawyer**Two to three years to fight it out in court. Most places you are lucky to get a court date in the same year that you file.

We agree, but given the sheer size of this system, did you expect it to be without problems? The question is, are these specific issues systemic and if they are, where is the proof?

No which is why I keep pointing out that all bad schools in my area are not doing the same things all the good schools in my area are doing

Again, as a parent, isn't it your responsibility to have this kind of information, I mean, if your child's education is important, shouldn't a parent have as much knowledge as they can?

Yes a parent should have as much knowledge as they can. A parent should not need to know all the legal requirements.

Are you just ball parking these figures and time frame or do actually have a citation that backs them up?

Check what I've listed before

So, you do think that public funds should be used for private schools?

Only if the public schools do not do there job.

From the California Department of Education...

Does the CDE validate private school diplomas?

No. The CDE does not have any authority to monitor or regulate private schools and consequently has no role in determining the validity or acceptability of private school diplomas. Colleges, employers, and military branches have complete discretion as to whether private school credits or diplomas are acceptable. Private high schools that are accredited by the Western Association of Schools and Colleges grant diplomas that generally are universally accepted.

Does the CDE evaluate or rate private schools?

No. CDE does not have any authority to monitor or evaluate private schools and has no ranking or rating system for private schools.

Do private schools have Academic Performance Index (API) scores?

No. The API, by law, applies only to public schools.

and the big one...

Do private schools follow a curriculum required by the state?

No. Private schools select and provide all curriculum, instruction, and instructional materials to students. However, to meet the statutory criteria as a private full-time school, the private school must, as stated in EC Section 48222, offer instruction in the several branches of study required to be taught in the public schools of the state to the same general degree of depth. While the State does not provide any educational curriculum, instructional or other materials, or standardized tests or assessments, to children who are educated privately, there are curricular guidelines in the form of content standards for each grade level accessible on the CDE Web site

[/QUOTE]

CA. Education Code 48222. Attendance in Private School
(Local district authority over exemption)
Children who are being instructed in a private full-time day school by persons capable of teaching shall be exempted. Such school shall, except under the circumstances described in Section 30, be taught in the English language and shall offer instruction in the several branches of study required to be taught in the public schools of the state.

Again, the information is available. I found it in about 30 seconds. If they just accept the NO as an answer to the transfer and do nothing to follow up, then it falls on the parents. The system is in place, if parents don't educate themselves on their rights under the law, then again, that smacks of poor parenting.

So if a parent knows that the law says there kid can transfer but do not know every legal requirement there are a bad parent.

Do you know every legal requirement of the Education laws in your state.

Yep, public money going to private schools, one of the main reasons that vouchers lose every single time.

Yep a public school teacher not wanting to let anyone say that a school is bad

Nope, you should wish for more parents to get it together, organize themselves and be proactive in making the changes they desire in their local public schools.
The school is what the community wants to make it. Vouchers don't work, see Milwaukee and Cleveland. You don't like the way your local public school is doing things, get organized and get to work. Now, based on what you have told me about some of the problems your local school district has, it sounds to me like many of the parents in that school have not even bothered to educate them on what is available to them. Perhaps that is the problem.

As I pointed out before did get organized, most of the public schools are good.

Only problem is when I try to talk about the few bad ones I'm told I don't know what I'm talking about and should shut up.

Try to talk about the problems in my area and told "You don't know about the schools in Ohio so you need to shut up".

No you did not get organized (70's and 80's), did not help make the schools in my area better, did not go to the meetings, did not go to the schools, did not talk to the teachers etc and you do not know the problems of the bad schools in my area. So maybe you should shut up.