Abortion Debate

[camarozz]

gotta go, abortion topics make me sick.

[Andrew_980]

For those who claim that the fetus is not a human being what do you call that girl, born at 26 weeks gestation?

A premature baby, out of the womb.
If you want women that are that far along to have it removed and put on life support instead of killing it i can see your point. It is still not the same as a 1 to10 week long pregnancy though, those are not going to make it

[Hadassah]

A premature baby, out of the womb.
If you want women that are that far along to have it removed and put on life support instead of killing it i can see your point. It is still not the same as a 1 to10 week long pregnancy though, those are not going to make it

that premature baby, if the mother's water hadn't broken 2 days before, would have still been in the womb, where some claim that she wasn't human. The ONLY two differences in her and the 1 to 10 week baby in the womb is age and location. there is no "magic point" where she became human after her conception. She was a created human being at conception, created by the union of egg and sperm.


And believe me, your scenario would be preferable to death, however, those who call for abortion in the case of health to the mother call for the death of the baby, not the placing of the baby on life support. Partial birth abortion ring a bell?

Abortion is often based on how someone FEELS. Not on reality and facts.

[DRS]

If people kept to that attitude, women would never have the right to vote and blacks would still be slaves. We change what we can, when we can. Unfortunately, there will always be people who consider blacks to be less than human, and people who will always think of unborn children as less than human, cancers even, who deserve to be killed for the sake of their mother's lifestyle. You don't keep silent about the truth just because there are jerks in the world.

If we kept that view people would not have treated women and people of colour as being less than human

If we will kill one another to protect wealth and self then the unborn can not expect any better.

[Andrew_980]

that premature baby, if the mother's water hadn't broken 2 days before, would have still been in the womb, where some claim that she wasn't human. The ONLY two differences in her and the 1 to 10 week baby in the womb is age and location. there is no "magic point" where she became human after her conception. She was a created human being at conception, created by the union of egg and sperm.


And believe me, your scenario would be preferable to death, however, those who call for abortion in the case of health to the mother call for the death of the baby, not the placing of the baby on life support. Partial birth abortion ring a bell?

Abortion is often based on how someone FEELS. Not on reality and facts.

Reality and facts are often subjective.

[Hadassah]

If we kept that view people would not have treated women and people of colour as being less than human

If we will kill one another to protect wealth and self then the unborn can not expect any better.

I have been thinking about this and will answer this in the other thread shortly, ok?

[Hadassah]

Reality and facts are often subjective.

then I guess your post is subjective.

[jkm]

And if that 'new conception' came about as a result of rape or incest....? Still going to call her lazy or irresponsible.....?

And why the magic pronouncement that "life begins at conception".....?? Human ova and sperm cells are living tissue - tissue which is modified solely for the purpose of producing a fetus. When that tissue is destroyed, the opportunity for those cells to develop into 'new life' has been removed. So why not rail against males who masturbate...?

Go to post 2215 in "Forcing Catholics to Act Against Their Faith" thread. I expounded my position on exceptions to this rule. Good grief, does no one make distinctions any more?

And what does a guy masturbating have to do with anything? Obviously, a sperm that meets no egg isn't going to form new life. Also quite obvious if a fertilized embryo cannot implant, it cannot live.

There are exceptions to every rule, but some want open unfettered access to abortion, and it isn't generally the exceptions the "pro choice" are arguing in favor of having this unrestricted access, but the majority who didn't think to practice birth control or keep their members to themselves.

[Andrew_980]

then I guess your post is subjective.

Is jesus being the savior and part of god a fact?

To the jew is it a fact? to the hindu?

Subjective "fact" and "reality"

[Hadassah]

Go to post 2215 in "Forcing Catholics to Act Against Their Faith" thread. I expounded my position on exceptions to this rule. Good grief, does no one make distinctions any more?

And what does a guy masturbating have to do with anything? Obviously, a sperm that meets no egg isn't going to form new life. Also quite obvious if a fertilized embryo cannot implant, it cannot live.

There are exceptions to every rule, but some want open unfettered access to abortion, and it isn't generally the exceptions the "pro choice" are arguing in favor of having this unrestricted access, but the majority who didn't think to practice birth control or keep their members to themselves.

don't you know that women should be able to do anything they damn well please, even if it means killing another human being inside their body?


I have the utmost compassion for anyone in a position where they feel they need an abortion. I understand how scary it is finding out you are pregnant, even when you want to be, and if your S.O is a jerk, or your parents aren't supportive, or even God forbid, you become pregnant as a result of rape or incest. But feelings and situations are no cause for deliberate killing. Where I get angry is the unreasoned defense of this killing and support of treating women like they are idiots.


btw, your post was awesome.

[biggles53]

No, we would not say the woman is lazy or irresponsible in the case of rape. Pro-lifers hate the injustice of rape just as much as we hate the injustice of abortion. However, the question still goes back to, are the unborn human. You can go to any embryology text book and find that science proves that from the moment of conception that they are human.

Umm....they're "human" well before that. Every cell in your body, whether a reproductive one or not, carries all the information necessary to make a new "human". Your point is irrelevant....

If they are human, we can not kill them just because they were concieved in rape. The unborn entitiy is not the aggressor, the rapist was. The unborn is just as much an innocent victim as its mother. We have to ask how we should treat innocent human beings who remind us of a painful event. Just as we can not kill a two year old who reminds us of a painful event, we can not kill the unborn for the same reason.

The pro-lifer is not forcing the woman to carry her child, the rapist is. We just don't want to see another injustice done.

How easy it must be to make such a pronouncement for someone else in that horrible position...

On the second statement, you are confusing parts with wholes. Unlike the embryo, which is already a whole human organism, sperm and egg are merly parts of a larger human organism. An embryo has the capacity to develop into a fetus, infant, toddler, teenager, and a adult. In the case of the sperm and egg, each dies in the act of contributing its part to the makeup of a new, whole living organism- the embryo.

You need to go back to biology class...

It makes no sense to say you were once a sperm or a somatic cell. However, the facts of science make clear that you were once a human embryo.

More biology needed...

[Guvnah]

Where does the Bible prohibit, nay mention, abortion Haddie...?

Why do non-believers ask this?

You don't care about the bible anyway.

And I'll bet you've already seen the exegesis of this issue, so you already know where it DOES.

Apron tugging is all this is.

[Hadassah]

Why do non-believers ask this?

You don't care about the bible anyway.

And I'll bet you've already seen the exegesis of this issue, so you already know where it DOES.

Apron tugging is all this is.

um, where does it? Can you provide me a link, because I have never studied the Bible on this issue because it does no good to argue with an atheist using the Bible.

[Andrew_980]

um, where does it? Can you provide me a link, because I have never studied the Bible on this issue because it does no good to argue with an atheist using the Bible.

Well in all fairness any other religion too......

[Guvnah]

A premature baby, out of the womb.
If you want women that are that far along to have it removed and put on life support instead of killing it i can see your point. It is still not the same as a 1 to10 week long pregnancy though, those are not going to make it

They most certainly will "make it" -- in the environment for which they are designed at that developmental stage of their lives.

Leave them where they are, and they will continue to live. LIVE. They are alive at that point. Fully alive and thriving in their natural environment. Expecting them to continue to live in some other environment is as absurd as someone shoving you in a liquid uterine-like environment and expecting you to live.

The concept of "viability" people seem to want to use for "letting" a baby live is rooted in ignorance of the developmental stages of the human life. The fetus is perfectly viable where it is. Leave it there. And don't argue for killing it.