Enough of the Math & Science Equine Feces

[buflineks]

What sciences go above and beyond what you think should be basic knowledge?

In Science, anything beyond Biology. In Math, anything beyond Algebra.

[buflineks]

Portfolios? ARe they middle school students or stock investors? Mandatory volunteer work? Isn't there already something like that? I do believe it's calledah yes probation & community service. I thought volunteer work was supposed to be just that--something to help out & make the helper feel good doing it on a voluntary basis. This is sort of like calling "food stamps" and "WIC" charity--they are forced out of the taxpayers' hides and they don't feel so great about forcibly donating.

It is the "Rage" here in my state. In order to graduate, you have to have so many hours of "volunteer" work completed. Kid you not.

The "portfolios" require a "Senior Project" which nothing more than a childish attempt to create a **** poor thesis. I kids who have "written" their "Senior Projects" soley by "cutting and pasting".

[buflineks]

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I can see individual PARENTS sitting down & having kids explain what they want to gain from a college education before pursuing it, but an "educational plan" in middle school? I'm happy I didn't have to submit my plan to be a veterinarian back then.

You and I agree, jkm.

My daughter knows that a college education is valuable. I have a step-son who has no desire to go to college ( he's a freshman this year). However, we have discussed with him the possibilities of trade schools and various other opportunities. He has flat out told us, he doesn't know what it is he wants to do with his life. So we don't push him. We only require that he take the required courses and do his best. We don't expect straight A's ( although he does currently have a 3.45).

My daughter who is an 8th grader, wanted to be an Architect from the time she was about 5. However, as she has gotten older and found out how much Math and Science are involved in that, she has decided that she doesn't want to do that any more. At this point she knows she wants to go to college, but she doesn't know what for. But if she decides for a liberal arts degree, then what is the point in her having to take classes that will in no way benefit her in that pursuit?

[Hadassah]

After what my son told me he learned about Elizabeth Cady Stanton, I am inclined to agree with you.

[Doci-Do]

You and I agree, jkm.

My daughter knows that a college education is valuable. I have a step-son who has no desire to go to college ( he's a freshman this year). However, we have discussed with him the possibilities of trade schools and various other opportunities. He has flat out told us, he doesn't know what it is he wants to do with his life. So we don't push him. We only require that he take the required courses and do his best. We don't expect straight A's ( although he does currently have a 3.45).

My daughter who is an 8th grader, wanted to be an Architect from the time she was about 5. However, as she has gotten older and found out how much Math and Science are involved in that, she has decided that she doesn't want to do that any more. At this point she knows she wants to go to college, but she doesn't know what for. But if she decides for a liberal arts degree, then what is the point in her having to take classes that will in no way benefit her in that pursuit?

I'm glad your daughter won't be any where near the blue prints of a house. If she can't handle basic concepts like trigonometry, physics or calculus I don't want her deciding the load a roof in the house can take.

BTW, liberal arts degrees are worthless and are the epitome of all the indoctrination talk I've heard in this thread. At least math, trigonometry, calculus, linear algebra and discrete mathematics are free of such political bias.

[Meriweather]

BTW, liberal arts degrees are worthless and are the epitome of all the indoctrination talk I've heard in this thread. At least math, trigonometry, calculus, linear algebra and discrete mathematics are free of such political bias.

Languages, grammar, computer applications, art, music, and physical education are also free of political bias. Further, just because it is possible to include political bias in history and government, doesn't mean that it is always taught that way--or that all students agree with the slant that is presented.

I am not against math, but I think more students would take greater interest in it, and pursue it further if so much of it wasn't being crammed down their throats in such a short period of time.

[Doci-Do]

Languages, grammar, computer applications, art, music, and physical education are also free of political bias. Further, just because it is possible to include political bias in history and government, doesn't mean that it is always taught that way--or that all students agree with the slant that is presented.

I am not against math, but I think more students would take greater interest in it, and pursue it further if so much of it wasn't being crammed down their throats in such a short period of time.

Thirteen years is really "crammed down their throats in a short period of time"?

Really???

BTW, computer applications are highly mathematically intensive and rightfully warrant a rigorous math curriculum.

Art and music are full of politics.

I've never seen a college student major in grammar.

[Meriweather]

Thirteen years is really "crammed down their throats in a short period of time"?

Really???

Really.

Have you ever been in a middle school or high school math class and noted the pace they move the students through the material? The reason many students struggle is because they are not given the time to understand lesson A before lesson B is being presented.

The average brain develops quickly enough for the average child to learn to read at about age six. It is also being shown that all pre-teens and young teens may not have the brain development yet that enables them to learn and understand higher math concepts.

It's difficult when a teacher is between a rock (students who are not yet developmentally able to readily understand algebra) and a hard place (a school district/State) that insists math lessons be taught at a sprint-- admitting flat out they know some students won't be able to keep up.

Teachers want students to love and appreciate the subject being taught. Math, contrary to what most students believe, can be appreciated, even loved,--given time.

I am not saying we should slow down students who can take math at a sprint, completing Calculus by their Sophomore year. I am saying there is no reason to make math so overwhelming for so many.

[Meriweather]

BTW, computer applications are highly mathematically intensive and rightfully warrant a rigorous math curriculum.

Art and music are full of politics.

I've never seen a college student major in grammar.

At the college level, yes. I'm speaking of middle school and high school levels. At this level, I have not yet seen our art and music teachers introduce politics in teaching the basics of art and music.

As far as majoring in grammar, it is a strong part of all languages and linguistic studies even in college. (I know this, because my daughter has a double major in these.) At the middle school and high school levels, grammar is a large part of their English curriculum.

[jkm]

I'm glad your daughter won't be any where near the blue prints of a house. If she can't handle basic concepts like trigonometry, physics or calculus I don't want her deciding the load a roof in the house can take.

BTW, liberal arts degrees are worthless and are the epitome of all the indoctrination talk I've heard in this thread. At least math, trigonometry, calculus, linear algebra and discrete mathematics are free of such political bias.

Worthless...OK I graduated from a liberal arts college where business administration was strictly a minor. A few graduates are attorneys, one in personal injury in Florida, the other criminal defense, a Mr. Richard Eustis, who has shown up at least once on The O'Reilly Factor. A guy friend of mine from Atlanta is also an attorney. A young woman with a sociology degree...full of liberal indoctrination, sure, but oh well...is a paralegal. Her best friend is a professor of English. Another English major last I heard had a sales territory with Smith Kline Beecham. Cedric had to have an ability to speak clearly as well as express himself articulately in writing to convince potential customers of why they should be interested in SBs products. I am not employed in my field, foreign languages, but am doing something else & giving a one year certificate as a medical interpreter some thought.

Not everyone is meant to be technical professionals, or doctors, or scientists. They should not all be expected to complete the same math & science courses as those who wish to go on in those professions.

Personally, I think the two years of algebra and one of geometry are enough for any student, college prep or otherwise, and one year of biology; one of chemistry; and one elective of the student's choosing should do it for science.

[AeroEngineer]

Everyone should be taught physics and rudimentary calculus (perhaps in the same course) before graduating highschool.

I'd venture to say both are more pertinent to the real world than chemistry.

[buflineks]

BTW, liberal arts degrees are worthless and are the epitome of all the indoctrination talk I've heard in this thread. At least math, trigonometry, calculus, linear algebra and discrete mathematics are free of such political bias.

Really?

What are my political leanings based upon my Degrees? Btw, I've always gone to public school. I am the son of a public school teacher.

Liberal arts degrees are worthless. I know of several VP's and CEO's who have Liberal arts degrees.... yeah...they are the "epitome of worthless".

"Indoctrination"? Really? How about people who are informed enough that they understand the basics of how our government works and the basics of history upon which it was built?

Nah.... more math and more science so people are unable to form opinions and don't give a damn until it too late.

[buflineks]

. If she can't handle basic concepts like trigonometry, physics or calculus I don't want her deciding the load a roof in the house can take..

Since you think that study of History and Government are "worthless" I don't want you voting or deciding matters that involve taxation or foriegn policy.

Deal?

[gwhughes]

Who understands more about taxation, the mathematician who does his own taxes and sees how much he overpays the government each year, or the historian who gets his rapid refund check from his accountant each year?



BTW, I took physics, chem2, advanced biology, calculus, and advanced English in high school. The basic principles of calculus and physics have served me best over the years in relationship to my career.

[lkz]

You make it an this or that for history and science. I don't see why that should be the tension.

The real issue with science and math (more science than math) is the elementary teachers tend to be more liberal arts oriented and are weaker in the sciences. Our kids are not taught the beauty of science until late in their educations if at all.

My daughter went through very good pubic school elementary and intermediate school with only a so/so science education. I pulled her out and put her into a private school that had a science instructor who loved science.
She now loves science.

She had fantastic elementary and middle school teachers on English and History, I just wish I had realized sooner that she was not being shown the beauty of science.