Who is the "god of fortresses" of Daniel 11:38?

[ROBERTENEAL]

Daniel 11:36-44 is a prophetic passage about a king who shall do whatever he wants, will blaspheme against God, and will exalt himself above everything that is considered sacred.

The only god that he will honor is "a god of fortresses" (v38).

Who is this "god of fortresses"?

[gpd®]

Daniel 11:36-44 is a prophetic passage about a king who shall do whatever he wants, will blaspheme against God, and will exalt himself above everything that is considered sacred.

The only god that he will honor is "a god of fortresses" (v38).

Who is this "god of fortresses"?


I am not seeing the word fortresses in my version.

Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

Are you asking in prophecy or in context?

[ROBERTENEAL]

I am not seeing the word fortresses in my version.

Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

Are you asking in prophecy or in context?

Prophecy. Is the "god of forces" a deity that is recognized by any religious group in the world today?

[free2B]

Prophecy. Is the "god of forces" a deity that is recognized by any religious group in the world today?

I dread to mention the word because it is translated with many meanings, but perhaps the struggle of the jihad, is the force referred to. just a thought

[JDdeliercourt]

I hate to be a name dropper but could it possibly be Satan?

[ROBERTENEAL]

I dread to mention the word because it is translated with many meanings, but perhaps the struggle of the jihad, is the force referred to. just a thought

A "god of fortresses" would have to be very militant.

[ROBERTENEAL]

I hate to be a name dropper but could it possibly be Satan?

Satan produces a lot of very attractive counterfeits that are known by a lot of different names.

Will the "willful king" of Daniel 11:36 embrace one of these counterfeits?
Daniel 11:37 ; "He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard of any god; for he shall magnify himself above them all".

So, he won't have any respect for God, or for anything that is considered to be a god. He won't like girls. He will be full of himself.

Maybe the "god of fortresses" that he embraces will be Satan himself.

[gpd®]

Prophecy. Is the "god of forces" a deity that is recognized by any religious group in the world today?

Looking through various commentaries and not finding any of the major teachers seeing this verse as prophecy.

Most scholars including Pentecostals refer to this person in context as Nebuchadnezzar himself.....not that history won't repeat itself though.

[Constantine the Great]

A "god of fortresses" would have to be very militant.

Not necessarily. The word fortress is a defensive term.

[ROBERTENEAL]

Looking through various commentaries and not finding any of the major teachers seeing this verse as prophecy.

Most scholars including Pentecostals refer to this person in context as Nebuchadnezzar himself.....not that history won't repeat itself though.

I have always thought of the "willful king" of Daniel 11 as the final Antichrist of Revelations.

There are always megalomaniacs who see themselves as a reincarnation of someone from the past. Saddam Hussein saw himself as a modern Nebachadnezzar. That is why the rebuilding of Babylon was so important to him.

[lwdc]

The goddess of fortresses could be Ashtoreth.

[ROBERTENEAL]

Not necessarily. The word fortress is a defensive term.

Daniel 11:39; "Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain".

Sounds like he will prefer to be on the offensive.

[CMike11]

the god of the cherubim who will make a treaty with him.

[gpd®]

I have always thought of the "willful king" of Daniel 11 as the final Antichrist of Revelations.

There are always megalomaniacs who see themselves as a reincarnation of someone from the past. Saddam Hussein saw himself as a modern Nebachadnezzar. That is why the rebuilding of Babylon was so important to him.

That's very good.

[meggers49]

The version I'm reading refers to him as the "god of strongholds". Being as the verses refer to the time of the end and other terms, I would suggest that it indicates prophecy. This chapter starts in Chapter 10 and continues into 11 and it seems as though it's giving the linear timeline of events until the end.

I'm going to have to read this again (with stronger glasses, I really need trifocals at the ripe old age of 51 1/2) and i'm going to need to draw a map with arrows to figure out who's where and when (cue the abbott and costello routine).

That said, I'm still not sure who the god of strongholds is, but it certainly seems that they are talking about THE anti-christ as it's referencing the end.

Also, this is the first place Daniel mentions the end of daily sacrifice and he mentions it again later in I believe it's Daniel 14. I submit that the daily sacrifice is the prohibition of Mass, which is known as the daily sacrifice. I believe it will be a time when Christian worship will be prohibited.

I'll ponder on it while I'm re-arranging my linen closet today.

[Harmonious]

Daniel 11:36-44 is a prophetic passage about a king who shall do whatever he wants, will blaspheme against God, and will exalt himself above everything that is considered sacred.

The only god that he will honor is "a god of fortresses" (v38).

Who is this "god of fortresses"?
When I read it, Rashi says that the king in this set of verses refers to the ruling of ancient Rome.

[Angryamerican]

It could be satan,and it is referring to babylon the great in the book of revelation.

I would say satan.

The end times.

[Gidon]

It could be satan,and it is referring to babylon the great in the book of revelation.

I would say satan.

The end times.

god of fortresses, god of force. which religion forces others to submit to their god?

a god of war

Daniel is talking about allah

[Angryamerican]

god of fortresses, god of force. which religion forces others to submit to their god?

a god of war

Daniel is talking about allah

Interesting.

[ROBERTENEAL]

god of fortresses, god of force. which religion forces others to submit to their god?

a god of war

Daniel is talking about allah

Daniel 11:37 says that this king will not "regard any god; for he shall magnify himself above them all". This would seem to indicate that he will magnify himself above everything that is referred to as God, including Allah. V38 says "a god that his fathers did not know".

I get the impression that he will either invent a brand new religion, or he will repackage a religion that is now in existence in way that will promote his agenda.

An example from history:
The "Reich Church" of Nazi Germany presented Jesus as a "god of fortresses". According to the propagandists of the Third Reich, Jesus Christ was actually as ancient Aryan warrior who saved the world from a Jewish takeover when he was martyred.

History is cyclical. The spirit of antichrist has been around for a long time and has produced a number of antichrist types at various times.

Was the Third Reich a shadow of a future empire?

[Gidon]

Daniel 11:37 says that this king will not "regard any god; for he shall magnify himself above them all". This would seem to indicate that he will magnify himself above everything that is referred to as God, including Allah. V38 says "a god that his fathers did not know".

I get the impression that he will either invent a brand new religion, or he will repackage a religion that is now in existence in way that will promote his agenda.

An example from history:
The "Reich Church" of Nazi Germany presented Jesus as a "god of fortresses". According to the propagandists of the Third Reich, Jesus Christ was actually as ancient Aryan warrior who saved the world from a Jewish takeover when he was martyred.

History is cyclical. The spirit of antichrist has been around for a long time and has produced a number of antichrist types at various times.

Was the Third Reich of shadow of a future empire?


Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

What religion subjugates Women?

allah akbar-arabic for allah is the greatest. exalted above all


Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

this guy honors a god alright. a god of war. allah is a god of war

[Jacob_Rising]

Daniel 11:36-44 is a prophetic passage about a king who shall do whatever he wants, will blaspheme against God, and will exalt himself above everything that is considered sacred.

The only god that he will honor is "a god of fortresses" (v38).

Who is this "god of fortresses"?It means that this man will be of great military strength and activity.

He will trust in his own strength of his military.

[lwdc]

this guy honors a god alright. a god of war. allah is a god of warSo is Mars!

And so is the Hawaiian god Kukailimoku, for that matter!

Your logical leaps are breathtakingly asinine.

[mgifford]

Antichrist!

[Gidon]

So is Mars!

And so is the Hawaiian god Kukailimoku, for that matter!

Your logical leaps are breathtakingly asinine.

And your forbearance overwhelming.

Never heard of a Hawaiian Empire that has marched across continents.

Mars is a pagan god but nothing about the subjugation of women in paganism. Actually quite the opposite.

So tell me which is more asinine;
Someone with something plausible, or someone who attempts to discredit the plausible with the non plausible?

[lwdc]

Mars is a pagan god but nothing about the subjugation of women in paganism. Nothing about the "subjugation of women" in that prophecy. That's just another one of your asinine interpretations of scripture. By saying "interpretation", I'm being charitable: "distortion" is a more apt term.

Actually quite the opposite.No. In both ancient Greece and Rome, men ruled. Care to name for me one female Roman senator (let alone a Caesar)?

Thanks in advance for the effort.

So tell me which is more asinine;
Someone with something plausible, or someone who attempts to discredit the plausible with the non plausible?Your assertion that the god in Daniel chapter 11 is unmistakably the "Allah" of today's religion of Islam is more asinine than anything I have ever asserted in these boards. Ever.

[lwdc]

allah akbar-arabic for allah is the greatest. exalted above allBy your breathtakingly asinine logical leaps, Jesus is, for Christians, the Antichrist, because He is to them the greatest, exalted above all, whose name is above all others.

Well done.

[Angryamerican]

I really think the god is satan.

[ROBERTENEAL]

I really think the god is satan.

Satan masquerades as an angel of light. He plays a lot of different roles, goes by a lot of different aliases, wears a variety of disguises, and produces a myriad of counterfeits.

Satan is the father of lies, has produced a lot of deceptions and is about to produced the ultimate lie; one that is designed to deceive "even the elect if possible".

As mentioned previously, history is cyclical; there have been many antichrists and there have been many deceptions. The scale of destruction and deception increases with each generation as history advances.

The ultimate Antichrist and the ultimate lie are yet to come, IMO. I also think that there are clues that we can derive from history that tell what the ultimate antichrist will be like, and there are clues that we can derive from history that tell us about the nature of the ultimate deception that will manifest itself in the days to come.

The "god of fortresses" will be part of a multifaceted lie that fools the whole world.

Maybe the ultimate deception will include a "god of fortresses" that is part of a religion that many people practice today. Maybe the "god of fortresses" will be a generic "Supreme Being" who gains worldwide acceptance. A repackaged and reinvented false Christ (such as the Aryan Jesus fabricated by the Third Reich) is a possibility.

Or maybe the "god of fortresses" will be something that goes by a new name. Perhaps the "god of fortresses" will represent an old concept, but will go by a new name.

There are a lot of possibilities. I would not even count out the possibility of a little green man in a UFO who has a lot of stories to tell.

[Gidon]

By your breathtakingly asinine logical leaps, Jesus is, for Christians, the Antichrist, because He is to them the greatest, exalted above all, whose name is above all others.

Well done.

Your display of contempt towards me in those last two posts shows your ignorance of the nature of Yeshua and how he is percieved by those who follow him including myself who happens to be ethnically Jewish.

Here's your first lesson:

Yeshua is not exalted above YHWH.

I'm not the only one in the world who believes that islam is possibly the religion of antichrist either. There is an ex PLO terrorist who is now a Christian(another reason for you to hold him in contempt) who believes this as well. his name is Walid Shoebat if you are so inclined to look him up.

Seriously, I hope G-d blesses you today.

[Angryamerican]

Your display of contempt towards me in those last two posts shows your ignorance of the nature of Yeshua and how he is percieved by those who follow him including myself who happens to be ethnically Jewish.

Here's your first lesson:

Yeshua is not exalted above YHWH.

I'm not the only one in the world who believes that islam is possibly the religion of antichrist either. There is an ex PLO terrorist who is now a Christian(another reason for you to hold him in contempt) who believes this as well. his name is Walid Shoebat if you are so inclined to look him up.

Seriously, I hope G-d blesses you today.

Yes that was very interesting.

He does seem to support your view.

Not sure if Islam is the religion of the anti-christ though.

I believe anyone rejecting Christ is the anti-christ.

I believe satan is the one that wants to exalt himself Above the heavens and above God and his angels.

Than satan will have gone to far.

[lwdc]

Yes that was very interesting.

He does seem to support your view.Uhm, no.

I was pointing out one (of many) of his logical fallacies.

Not sure if Islam is the religion of the anti-christ though.Me neither. In fact, it isn't, imo.

[ROBERTENEAL]

Your display of contempt towards me in those last two posts shows your ignorance of the nature of Yeshua and how he is percieved by those who follow him including myself who happens to be ethnically Jewish.

Here's your first lesson:

Yeshua is not exalted above YHWH.

I'm not the only one in the world who believes that islam is possibly the religion of antichrist either. There is an ex PLO terrorist who is now a Christian(another reason for you to hold him in contempt) who believes this as well. his name is Walid Shoebat if you are so inclined to look him up.

Seriously, I hope G-d blesses you today.

Which Islamic sect do you see as the religion of antichrist?

Will the Sunni and Shia branches of Islam have to reconcile before they can become powerful enough to become the "one world religion"?

[lwdc]

Your display of contempt towards me in those last two posts shows your ignorance of the nature of Yeshua and how he is percieved by those who follow him including myself who happens to be ethnically Jewish.

Here's your first lesson:

Yeshua is not exalted above YHWH.I never said He was. By the reckoning of many Christians, He is God, not "above" God.

Thanks for the "lesson".

I'm not the only one in the world who believes that islam is possibly the religion of antichrist either.You're not the only one in the world who is likely wrong that Islam is the religion of the Antichrist either. But unlike the others, you are convinced that it is.

In my opinion, you are wrong.

[Gidon]

I never said He was. By the reckoning of many Christians, He is God, not "above" God.

Thanks for the "lesson".

Fyi I do not believe in the oneness doctrine. I believe Yeshua is the Word of God. God is such a powerful being that His very word has its own personality.




You're not the only one in the world who is likely wrong that Islam is the religion of the Antichrist either. But unlike the others, you are convinced that it is.

In my opinion, you are wrong.

Fine. Disagree with me, cool. Just please do me a favor and leave the pack animals home.

asinine is a word that i wouldn't have threw at you.

[Gidon]

Which Islamic sect do you see as the religion of antichrist?

Will the Sunni and Shia branches of Islam have to reconcile before they can become powerful enough to become the "one world religion"?

No and they never will. Of course they could unite if they both bow down to the mahdi. He is their messiah. But he is our antichrist.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

the two horns Sunni and Shia


IMHO

[ROBERTENEAL]

No and they never will. Of course they could unite if they both bow down to the mahdi. He is their messiah. But he is our antichrist.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

the two horns Sunni and Shia


IMHO

As I understand the two primary Islamic sects, they disagree over the identity of the Mahdi.

The Shiites are looking for the return of the "12th Imam", who has allegedly been in a "state of occultation" for more than 1000 years. He is supposed to emerge from a well in the desert one of these days to take names and whup up on all of the infidels in the world.

The Sunni version of the Mahdi is different, they are looking for someone that appears to be more normal, who got here like everyone else.

If a man who claims to be the Sunni version of the Mahdi shows up, the Shiites will probably see him as a phony. And vice versa. I don't see the emergence of a Mahdi, or a 12th Imam as a means of reconciliation for Muslims of different persuasions.

[lwdc]

Fyi I do not believe in the oneness doctrine. I believe Yeshua is the Word of God. God is such a powerful being that His very word has its own personality.The Word is God. -John 1:1

You don't have to subscribe to the oneness doctrine to understand that. Trinitarians understand it as well (but that's a different thread).

Hopefully, you understand it too.

Fine. Disagree with me, cool. Just please do me a favor and leave the pack animals home. Do me a favor and allow me to contend for what I believe is the true faith of the everlasting Word when you come into the RF frothing with your "Islam is the beast (or insert whatever other biblical prophetic symbol here)" version of Christianity.

[Gidon]

The Word is God. -John 1:1

You don't have to subscribe to the oneness doctrine to understand that. Trinitarians understand it as well (but that's a different thread).

Hopefully, you understand it too.

Do me a favor and allow me to contend for what I believe is the true faith of the everlasting Word when you come into the RF frothing with your "Islam is the beast (or insert whatever other biblical prophetic symbol here)" version of Christianity.

are you a muslim?

I didn't stop you from anything.

[lwdc]

are you a muslim?No.

I didn't stop you from anything.Thanks.

[meggers49]

No and they never will. Of course they could unite if they both bow down to the mahdi. He is their messiah. But he is our antichrist.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

the two horns Sunni and Shia


IMHO

ok. interesting for the two horns. and the lamb would be the emblem of of the 'religion of peace', which isn't. ok...interesting concept.

[Jacob_Rising]

Daniel 11:36-44 is a prophetic passage about a king who shall do whatever he wants, will blaspheme against God, and will exalt himself above everything that is considered sacred.

The only god that he will honor is "a god of fortresses" (v38).

Who is this "god of fortresses"?October 31st 1917 General allenby of the British took Beersheba and the Holy lands away from the Otterman Turks 400 years to the day when they lost in on Oct 31st 1517.

In 1917 when the Britsih took Israel back, The Muslim year written on the coins of those Arab states was the HOLY YEAR OF 1335.

This was because this was the Muslim year 1335 which began in the 7th century.

Daniel 12:12 '' Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty five days.''

[ROBERTENEAL]

October 31st 1917 General allenby of the British took Beersheba and the Holy lands away from the Otterman Turks 400 years to the day when they lost in on Oct 31st 1517.

In 1917 when the Britsih took Israel back, The Muslim year written on the coins of those Arab states was the HOLY YEAR OF 1335.

This was because this was the Muslim year 1335 which began in the 7th century.

Daniel 12:12 '' Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty five days.''

Interesting stuff.

General Allenby and his troops fought the Ottoman Turks again after October 1917; Allenby's army fought the Ottoman Turks for the last time in September, 1918. This final victory over the Ottoman Empire was fought in the Mt. Meggido/Jezreel Valley area, the same place where the great "Battle of Armageddon" will be fought.

Napoleon' army had fought in the same place back in 1799. Napoleon studied the Biblical account of the battle that Deborah's army fought in that area, and Allenby studied both Napoleon and the OT account of Deborah and Barak.

There have been at least 34 "Battles of Armageddon" dating back to the 15th century BC. I think that #35 will be the big one.

[lwdc]

October 31st 1917 General allenby of the British took Beersheba and the Holy lands away from the Otterman Turks 400 years to the day when they lost in on Oct 31st 1517.The exact days are just guesses. For example, the Battle of Gaza to which you refer didn't end until November 7.

Even if your dates were exactly right (which they aren't)... SO?

In 1917 when the Britsih took Israel back, The Muslim year written on the coins of those Arab states was the HOLY YEAR OF 1335.

This was because this was the Muslim year 1335 which began in the 7th century.Wrong. 1917 was the Muslim year 1275. You're off by more than half a century.

You really shouldn't believe all the crap you read.

Daniel 12:12 '' Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty five days.''And given all of the above... SO?

[Jacob_Rising]

The exact days are just guesses. For example, the Battle of Gaza to which you refer didn't end until November 7.

Even if your dates were exactly right (which they aren't)... SO?

Wrong. 1917 was the Muslim year 1275. You're off by more than half a century.

You really shouldn't believe all the crap you read.

And given all of the above... SO?
Look up a Egyptian Milliemes, it's a coin the size of a nickel with a hole in the middle.

On one side of the hole states 1917 and on the opposite it states the moslim year 1335 which began on July 16 622 a.d.

This is a lunar calender and 1917 was the Muslim year 1335.

[Jacob_Rising]

Interesting stuff.

General Allenby and his troops fought the Ottoman Turks again after October 1917; Allenby's army fought the Ottoman Turks for the last time in September, 1918. This final victory over the Ottoman Empire was fought in the Mt. Meggido/Jezreel Valley area, the same place where the great "Battle of Armageddon" will be fought.

Napoleon' army had fought in the same place back in 1799. Napoleon studied the Biblical account of the battle that Deborah's army fought in that area, and Allenby studied both Napoleon and the OT account of Deborah and Barak.

There have been at least 34 "Battles of Armageddon" dating back to the 15th century BC. I think that #35 will be the big one.I read the account of the strategic battle that was copied from Johnathon when he came up from behind and his armour bearer and him had great success.

Actually I think that this story was the original spartan story, I think they might have stole the same strategy to create the famous Spartan story.

I remember some guy reading the bible late at niht and realizing that they were on the same property in the same position and thus used the same strategy.

[lwdc]

Look up a Egyptian Milliemes, it's a coin the size of a nickel with a hole in the middle.

On one side of the hole states 1917 and on the opposite it states the moslim year 1335 which began on July 16 622 a.d.

This is a lunar calender and 1917 was the Muslim year 1335.I stand corrected, 1917 was the Muslim year 1335, which leads me to the next question (which I asked in my previous post), to wit:

SO?

[Jacob_Rising]

The exact days are just guesses. For example, the Battle of Gaza to which you refer didn't end until November 7.

Even if your dates were exactly right (which they aren't)... SO?

Wrong. 1917 was the Muslim year 1275. You're off by more than half a century.

You really shouldn't believe all the crap you read.

And given all of the above... SO?Believe it or not, I didn't post what I posted for you Lwdc, I posted it for whetever it's worth for people interested in Daniel's prophecies.

It may be worth something to somebody who's studying the AntiChrist But my mind is allready made up on the issue, I did my search and I just thought I'de throw something in to the conversation.

SO?

As you say it means nothing to you, SO?

Given this insulting and obviously incorrect post of yours here, I should have also smarted off and rubbed it in your face but I didn't.

So?

So Stop reading my posts.

[lwdc]

Believe it or not, I didn't post what I posted for you Lwdc, I posted it for whetever it's worth for people interested in Daniel's prophecies.

It may be worth something to somebody who's studying the AntiChrist But my mind is allready made up on the issue, I did my search and I just thought I'de throw something in to the conversation.

SO?

As you say it means nothing to you, SO?I'm asking what it means to ANYONE, not me. Tell us, please, why exactly you think it is important that 1917 was the Muslim year 1335.

What does that have ANYTHING to do with a prophecy in Daniel that happens to contain the number 1335?

The year 1268 CE was the year 666 on the Islamic calendar. Ooh! What OT prophecy was fulfilled that year?

[lwdc]

It may be worth something to somebody who's studying the AntiChrist But my mind is allready made up on the issue, I did my search and I just thought I'de throw something in to the conversation. <SNIP>So Stop reading my posts.You make your own bed.

Posts are published in this forum so that people can respond.

[Jacob_Rising]

I'm asking what it means to ANYONE, not me. Tell us, please, why exactly you think it is important that 1917 was the Muslim year 1335.

What does that have ANYTHING to do with a prophecy in Daniel that happens to contain the number 1335?

The year 1268 CE was the year 666 on the Islamic calendar. Ooh! What OT prophecy was fulfilled that year?It's called a tidbit.

I could give you a long interesting ideal why I believe this is fulfilled prophecy but when I get through your gonna say,'' SO''

:razz: Let's start over Lw, Have I told you I loved you lately?

[justme]

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
--Ephesians 2:2

and the god of fortresses

Take a look at the history of the swastika and what it has represented and what it is now becomming. Scientists can now use it to bend light. It has been thought to be a symbol of the god of the air and also a blueprint for fortress. It can now be shown to bend light-- the mark of the god of forces if you like that translation.

[Poisonshady313]

Daniel 11:38

But he will honor the god of the fortresses when in his place; and he will honor a god whom his ancestors did not know, with gold, with silver, with precious stones and with desirable objects.

Footnote to Daniel 11:38

He will feign veneration for the gods of the fortified cities in his realm in order to cajole the people into submission.