Ask a Baptist

[cbut1]

I saw everyone elses so I thought I would jump in and offer answers.


Here is an answer to the question, why is the sky blue? God made it that way. :whistle:

[Reeder]

Why are Baptists called Baptists?

[CID_0687]

OK, I got one.

I know that the Baptists have no direct ties to the Catholic church like many of the other denominations do...but if the Catholic church was the original church then where do Baptists come in? There has to be a tie to Catholicism some place right?

[cbut1]

Why are Baptists called Baptists?


We have been called many names through the centuries but the main reason is because of following the Biblical example of Baptism.

Complete Immersion of a willing (meaning a person whom confesses Christ as their Lord and savior) candidate by the authority of the Church into the Body of Christ.

[cbut1]

OK, I got one.

I know that the Baptists have no direct ties to the Catholic church like many of the other denominations do...but if the Catholic church was the original church then where do Baptists come in? There has to be a tie to Catholicism some place right?

A good question let me consider the best way to answer so as not to inflame my good Catholic friends.

I'll be back to this one. :)

[CID_0687]

A good question let me consider the best way to answer so as not to inflame my good Catholic friends.

I'll be back to this one. :)
Cool.

[texan_rep]

I don't know if we'll be inflamed...

We might laugh, though...:whistle:

:razz:

[CID_0687]

Since there's so many of these...perhaps Pope Rayman should start an Ask a Pentecostal thread...I would do it, but it may get confusing for an Ask a Pentecostal Baptist Episcopal thread....:think:

[Reeder]

Since there's so many of these...perhaps Pope Rayman should start an Ask a Pentecostal thread...I would do it, but it may get confusing for an Ask a Pentecostal Baptist Episcopal thread....:think:

The "Ask a Pentecostal Pope" title may confuse some new-comers.

[cbut1]

I don't know if we'll be inflamed...

We might laugh, though...:whistle:

:razz:

:razz:

[RayMan]

Since there's so many of these...perhaps Pope Rayman should start an Ask a Pentecostal thread...I would do it, but it may get confusing for an Ask a Pentecostal Baptist Episcopal thread....:think:

Actually had a thread along those lines awhile back. Fell off the front page fairly quickly. Pretty much everyone around here who isn't Pentecostal seems to fall into one of two camps.

Either we are wrong in our doctrine and practice because the Pentecostal gifts passed away as soon as the N.T. was written, or, (and I won't mention any names :whistle:) the gifts of the Spirit are still available today but the modern day Pentecostal understanding and practice of the same are not the genuine article.

Funny thing is anytime your thread on "what is your religious affiliation?" gets bumped up it is clearly shown that there are more Pentecostals around here than any other single group. Makes me think that the gifts don't make us as devisive as some would have it since we don't raise a fuss about tongues, signs and wonders, and such like all that often.

Don't want to go on and on but wanted to answer your post.

[cbut1]

OK, I got one.

I know that the Baptists have no direct ties to the Catholic church like many of the other denominations do...but if the Catholic church was the original church then where do Baptists come in? There has to be a tie to Catholicism some place right?


Short version but I am willing to expand on this if needed or asked to.

Baptist believe that Christ established His Church upon Himself and gave shared authority to the Apostles (which is the first persons added to the Church) to go teach Baptise and teach. The First assembly in Jerusalem fell under persecution and many were scattered abroad and began to establish other assemblies. Those assemblies were all confirmed and taught further by the (Apostles such as Paul) through the many Epistles that are now contained in the Bible. Each new assembly that was established was done so by the authority of another assembly. This had gone on for a few centuries before a certain unifying character came unto the scene. This character didn't like the division that certain religious elements were creating and decided to hold a council to resolve the issues. Many pastors/bishops of many assemblies were called to this meeting a large portion showed up as requested. Some did not and thus maintained their independance from these procedings. Some that did go only did so to try and win the emporer to one side or the other of the arguments and only a few that went really tried to be unifiers. This is how we as Baptist see the foundation of the Catholic Church coming about.

We do not see it starting with Peter because Biblically there is not support for Peter being in Rome for such a purpose. There is tremendous amount of Biblical evidence that shows Paul in Rome and guiding the assembly there as with most of the gentile Churches. Our Baptist ancestry comes through these Churches that did not participate in these procedings and are the continuence of those assemblies started by the authority granted unto Paul and the other Apostles from the Church in Jerusalem.

This is the short answer. :D

[super cool ski instructor]

Okay I got a question...this is something I have wondered about all 29 years of my Baptist life.


Why are there so many green bean casseroles at the pot lucks? Surely people would realize that 12 other people are going to make green bean casseroles, and the world would not end if they just made a simple jell-o salad....

[RayMan]

Okay I got a question...this is something I have wondered about all 29 years of my Baptist life.


Why are there so many green bean casseroles at the pot lucks? Surely people would realize that 12 other people are going to make green bean casseroles, and the world would not end if they just made a simple jell-o salad....

Careful. You are traipsing on the ragged edge of heresy.

[Reeder]

Okay I got a question...this is something I have wondered about all 29 years of my Baptist life.


Why are there so many green bean casseroles at the pot lucks? Surely people would realize that 12 other people are going to make green bean casseroles, and the world would not end if they just made a simple jell-o salad....

Invite some Mormons over to the BBQ - you'll get some simple Jell-o salads (and some not-so-simple ones).

And speaking of Mormons and Baptists at the same BBQ together ---------> "Baptists at our BBQ" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0391104/)

[5thIDSoldier]

OK, I got one.

I know that the Baptists have no direct ties to the Catholic church like many of the other denominations do...but if the Catholic church was the original church then where do Baptists come in? There has to be a tie to Catholicism some place right?

Baptists have never been part of the Catholic Church. The church in Jerusalem in the book of Acts was the first church.

[5thIDSoldier]

Short version but I am willing to expand on this if needed or asked to.

Baptist believe that Christ established His Church upon Himself and gave shared authority to the Apostles (which is the first persons added to the Church) to go teach Baptise and teach. The First assembly in Jerusalem fell under persecution and many were scattered abroad and began to establish other assemblies. Those assemblies were all confirmed and taught further by the (Apostles such as Paul) through the many Epistles that are now contained in the Bible. Each new assembly that was established was done so by the authority of another assembly. This had gone on for a few centuries before a certain unifying character came unto the scene. This character didn't like the division that certain religious elements were creating and decided to hold a council to resolve the issues. Many pastors/bishops of many assemblies were called to this meeting a large portion showed up as requested. Some did not and thus maintained their independance from these procedings. Some that did go only did so to try and win the emporer to one side or the other of the arguments and only a few that went really tried to be unifiers. This is how we as Baptist see the foundation of the Catholic Church coming about.

We do not see it starting with Peter because Biblically there is not support for Peter being in Rome for such a purpose. There is tremendous amount of Biblical evidence that shows Paul in Rome and guiding the assembly there as with most of the gentile Churches. Our Baptist ancestry comes through these Churches that did not participate in these procedings and are the continuence of those assemblies started by the authority granted unto Paul and the other Apostles from the Church in Jerusalem.

This is the short answer. :D

Thats actually a pretty darn good synopsis, Cbut1.

[Gaby77]

Okay I got a question...this is something I have wondered about all 29 years of my Baptist life.


Why are there so many green bean casseroles at the pot lucks? Surely people would realize that 12 other people are going to make green bean casseroles, and the world would not end if they just made a simple jell-o salad....

All the Jell-o salads are that the Mormon pot luck next door.

[RayMan]

Thats actually a pretty darn good synopsis, Cbut1.

Very nicely done in my opinion. Thanks, cbut.

[cbut1]

Okay I got a question...this is something I have wondered about all 29 years of my Baptist life.


Why are there so many green bean casseroles at the pot lucks? Surely people would realize that 12 other people are going to make green bean casseroles, and the world would not end if they just made a simple jell-o salad....

Here is what I observe when it comes to our Baptist potlucks and the abundance of Green Bean casseroles.

See our Baptist women are so busy cleaning the house, feeding the kids, having womens bible studies, and on top of all of that making us Baptist men look so darn good. That the only time they have left for potlucks is to throw a quick couple cans of green beans and some other simple cans of quick fixins together and whalla a meal in a jiffy. :D

[cbut1]

Thats actually a pretty darn good synopsis, Cbut1.



Thanks

[cbut1]

All the Jell-o salads are that the Mormon pot luck next door.


I heard a joke one time about baptist inviting Jews over for a potluck BBQ. The Jews get to fellowsip with people whom respect them. The Baptist gets seconds.




:mrgreen:

[cbut1]

Ok I have to put the little guy down to sleep then head off to work for the rest of the day so please continue the fun and post any and all questions, I or some other well informed and loving Baptist will answer them each.

[THE LIGHT]

Why don't Baptists believe in speaking in tongues? I know that some do, but the majority is against it.

[mgifford]

Short version but I am willing to expand on this if needed or asked to.

Baptist believe that Christ established His Church upon Himself and gave shared authority to the Apostles (which is the first persons added to the Church) to go teach Baptise and teach. The First assembly in Jerusalem fell under persecution and many were scattered abroad and began to establish other assemblies. Those assemblies were all confirmed and taught further by the (Apostles such as Paul) through the many Epistles that are now contained in the Bible. Each new assembly that was established was done so by the authority of another assembly. This had gone on for a few centuries before a certain unifying character came unto the scene. This character didn't like the division that certain religious elements were creating and decided to hold a council to resolve the issues. Many pastors/bishops of many assemblies were called to this meeting a large portion showed up as requested. Some did not and thus maintained their independance from these procedings. Some that did go only did so to try and win the emporer to one side or the other of the arguments and only a few that went really tried to be unifiers. This is how we as Baptist see the foundation of the Catholic Church coming about.

We do not see it starting with Peter because Biblically there is not support for Peter being in Rome for such a purpose. There is tremendous amount of Biblical evidence that shows Paul in Rome and guiding the assembly there as with most of the gentile Churches. Our Baptist ancestry comes through these Churches that did not participate in these procedings and are the continuence of those assemblies started by the authority granted unto Paul and the other Apostles from the Church in Jerusalem.

This is the short answer. :D



It's difficult to read single space.

[mgifford]

Why don't Baptists believe in speaking in tongues? I know that some do, but the majority is against it.

I think you'd be very surprised at how many Baptists speak in tongues.

[RayMan]

I tthink you'd be very surprised at how many Baptists speak in tongues.

Yep.

Undercover Tongue Talkers. :mrgreen:

[THE LIGHT]

I tthink you'd be very surprised at how many Baptists speak in tongues.

That is wonderful!!!

Which brings up another question:

why the change?

[CID_0687]

Short version but I am willing to expand on this if needed or asked to.

Baptist believe that Christ established His Church upon Himself and gave shared authority to the Apostles (which is the first persons added to the Church) to go teach Baptise and teach. The First assembly in Jerusalem fell under persecution and many were scattered abroad and began to establish other assemblies. Those assemblies were all confirmed and taught further by the (Apostles such as Paul) through the many Epistles that are now contained in the Bible. Each new assembly that was established was done so by the authority of another assembly. This had gone on for a few centuries before a certain unifying character came unto the scene. This character didn't like the division that certain religious elements were creating and decided to hold a council to resolve the issues. Many pastors/bishops of many assemblies were called to this meeting a large portion showed up as requested. Some did not and thus maintained their independance from these procedings. Some that did go only did so to try and win the emporer to one side or the other of the arguments and only a few that went really tried to be unifiers. This is how we as Baptist see the foundation of the Catholic Church coming about.

We do not see it starting with Peter because Biblically there is not support for Peter being in Rome for such a purpose. There is tremendous amount of Biblical evidence that shows Paul in Rome and guiding the assembly there as with most of the gentile Churches. Our Baptist ancestry comes through these Churches that did not participate in these procedings and are the continuence of those assemblies started by the authority granted unto Paul and the other Apostles from the Church in Jerusalem.

This is the short answer. :D
Thank you.

[CID_0687]

Actually had a thread along those lines awhile back. Fell off the front page fairly quickly. Pretty much everyone around here who isn't Pentecostal seems to fall into one of two camps.

Either we are wrong in our doctrine and practice because the Pentecostal gifts passed away as soon as the N.T. was written, or, (and I won't mention any names :whistle:) the gifts of the Spirit are still available today but the modern day Pentecostal understanding and practice of the same are not the genuine article.

Funny thing is anytime your thread on "what is your religious affiliation?" gets bumped up it is clearly shown that there are more Pentecostals around here than any other single group. Makes me think that the gifts don't make us as devisive as some would have it since we don't raise a fuss about tongues, signs and wonders, and such like all that often.

Don't want to go on and on but wanted to answer your post.
Funny thing about denominations and doctrines...someone's always gonna have a problem with one or more of 'em...At least we can all agree that we're Christians...well....most of us can anyway.

[RayMan]

Funny thing about denominations and doctrines...someone's always gonna have a problem with one or more of 'em...At least we can all agree that we're Christians...well....most of us can anyway.

Yep. I try to stick with that which unites.

Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

[mgifford]

That is wonderful!!!

Which brings up another question:

why the change?

For years I've known Baptists that would visit Pentecostal churches regularly. There have also for years been Baptist churches that spoke in tongues.

I think the Baptist Religion is so wide spread and at the same time divided around the country, that nobody really knows from state to state who is different. Plus the Southern Convention is very spread out.

[super cool ski instructor]

Here is what I observe when it comes to our Baptist potlucks and the abundance of Green Bean casseroles.

See our Baptist women are so busy cleaning the house, feeding the kids, having womens bible studies, and on top of all of that making us Baptist men look so darn good. That the only time they have left for potlucks is to throw a quick couple cans of green beans and some other simple cans of quick fixins together and whalla a meal in a jiffy. :D

:))

[CID_0687]

I think you'd be very surprised at how many Baptists speak in tongues.
Before we joined the church we're at now, the pastor came over and had dinner with us to answer some questions for me. I've been to Baptist churches before, most of my family is Baptist, but my background is Pentecostal. This is one of the questions I asked him.

The answer I got was that Baptists don't necessarily NOT believe in the gifts of the spirit, they just don't put as much emphasis on them as Pentecostals/Charismatics do. And, I understood that. Being in the Pentecostal church I've seen people operating in the gifts of the spirit...but then I've also seen the mockery thereof as well. It's a very personal thing. Paul wrote that if one speaks in tongues in an assembly there should be an interpreter...I've witnessed this, I've also witnessed a person speaking in tongues and then interpreting their own tongue, now whether that was from God or not is between that man and God.

I've been in assemblies where someone has spoken in tongues and there's been no interpretation at all...And I've been where there was nothing but mockery of tongues...and you can tell the difference if you have discernment.

There's also different types of tongues, there's the prophetic, and the prayer language...but this is getting too deep I'll save this for another thread.

Bottom line is that many, I won't say all, but many Baptists do believe in the Gift of Tongues but they believe it to be a very private thing...and if done in an assembly, it should be without a shadow of a doubt from God.

At least that's my understanding.

[mgifford]

Before we joined the church we're at now, the pastor came over and had dinner with us to answer some questions for me. I've been to Baptist churches before, most of my family is Baptist, but my background is Pentecostal. This is one of the questions I asked him.

The answer I got was that Baptists don't necessarily NOT believe in the gifts of the spirit, they just put as much emphasis on them as Pentecostals/Charismatics do. And, I understood that. Being in the Pentecostal church I've seen people operating in the gifts of the spirit...but then I've also seen the mockery thereof as well. It's a very personal thing. Paul wrote that if one speaks in tongues in an assembly there should be an interpreter...I've witnessed this, I've also witnessed a person speaking in tongues and then interpreting their own tongue, now whether that was from God or not is between that man and God.

I've been in assemblies where someone has spoken in tongues and there's been no interpretation at all...And I've been where there was nothing but mockery of tongues...and you can tell the difference if you have discernment.

There's also different types of tongues, there's the prophetic, and the prayer language...but this is getting too deep I'll save this for another thread.

Bottom line is that many, I won't say all, but many Baptists do believe in the Gift of Tongues but they believe it to be a very private thing...and if done in an assembly, it should be without a shadow of a doubt from God.

At least that's my understanding.

I think you're right brother. Paul was talking about "Messages in Tongues To Be Interpreted", not the prayer language of the congregation. I guess that's the most misconceived belief in the Bible.

Paul was speaking of "Tongues and Interpretations" when he said that there must be an interpreter and in threes. I speak in tongues but I've never had the gift of interpreting tongues. You can have three messages, then three more and so on.

If there isn't someone with the gift of interpretation, YES, by all means, don't give a message, but speak in your "heavenly language" all you want. Paul possessed all "Nine Gifts" and knew all there was to teach us.

Good Post

[RayMan]

Any Baptists in the house?

[CID_0687]

I think you're right brother. Paul was talking about "Messages in Tongues To Be Interpreted", not the prayer language of the congregation. I guess that's the most misconceived belief in the Bible.

Paul was speaking of "Tongues and Interpretations" when he said that there must be an interpreter and in threes. I speak in tongues but I've never had the gift of interpreting tongues. You can have three messages, then three more and so on.

If there isn't someone with the gift of interpretation, YES, by all means, don't give a message, but speak in your "heavenly language" all you want. Paul possessed all "Nine Gifts" and knew all there was to teach us.

Good Post
That's right on.

That's why Paul said that it's better to speak in your native tongue...maybe someone can help me with the exact verse...but it was something along the lines of "I speak in tongues more than anybody......But your message will be more effective if speaking in your own language" I know that's not word for word, maybe someone knows what I'm talking about.

[mgifford]

That's right on.

That's why Paul said that it's better to speak in your native tongue...maybe someone can help me with the exact verse...but it was something along the lines of "I speak in tongues more than anybody......But your message will be more effective if speaking in your own language" I know that's not word for word, maybe someone knows what I'm talking about.

Six Times Not to Speak in Tongues
1 Cor. 14:18
Paul boasts of his ability to talk in tongues more than all others of the church, yet says there is a time and place for tongues.
Six Times Not to Speak in Tongues:
1. When not impelled by love (1 Cor. 13:1-3)
2. When in regular church meetings and no interpreter present (1 Cor. 14:5,27-28)
3. When it is time to give truth to the public (1 Cor. 14:6-13,19,23-25)
4. When invited to say grace at the table (1 Cor. 14:16-17)
5. When the whole church would like to speak in tongues and people are present who would stumble over such action (1 Cor. 14:23-25)
6. After two or three messages in tongues have been given and interpreted (1 Cor. 14:27)

[RayMan]

That's right on.

That's why Paul said that it's better to speak in your native tongue...maybe someone can help me with the exact verse...but it was something along the lines of "I speak in tongues more than anybody......But your message will be more effective if speaking in your own language" I know that's not word for word, maybe someone knows what I'm talking about.

1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

[CID_0687]

My mother in law spoke in tongues when coming out of surgery and at her mother's funeral. That's the difference in the prayer language and the "message of Tongues".
In a nutshell, yes it is. :think: Have we had a thread on the gifts of the spirit? I would think so if Ray said there was a kind of "Ask a Pentecostal" thread...may be a good thing to stir up.

[CID_0687]

1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

That's the one I was thinking about...thanks Ray.

And thanks mgifford for the verses you cited as well.

[mgifford]

In a nutshell, yes it is. :think: Have we had a thread on the gifts of the spirit? I would think so if Ray said there was a kind of "Ask a Pentecostal" thread...may be a good thing to stir up.

We've had several, but try another one.

[CID_0687]

We've had several, but try another one.
I believe I will...I'm going to do some research and make sure I've got everything together on this for the OP...I'll probably have it either late this evening or some time tomorrow.

[mgifford]

I believe I will...I'm going to do some research and make sure I've got everything together on this for the OP...I'll probably have it either late this evening or some time tomorrow.

Good for you, my friend.

[Lie Sniper]

Hi cbut,

Hey, why can't women be preachers?

:)):)):)) Just Kindin with ya!!
Have a good day!

[Lie Sniper]

Hey, I'm almost at 200 posts.

What number do you need to get, to officially be considered a loud mouth?

Never mind. I probably got there on post #1..:))

[RayMan]

Hey, I'm almost at 200 posts.

What number do you need to get, to officially be considered a loud mouth?

Never mind. I probably got there on post #1..:))

You're way ahead of the curve. :clap:

[buflineks]

Cbut,

Would you be able to recommend a site where a person could find the "tenants" of your faith? Sort of like when someone asks about catholicism, we send them to the Catechisms.

I have a friend in my Historical research class who is non-baptist and would like some information to get started with.
I believe her paper is going going to be about colonial American Baptists.

[THE LIGHT]

For years I've known Baptists that would visit Pentecostal churches regularly. There have also for years been Baptist churches that spoke in tongues.

I think the Baptist Religion is so wide spread and at the same time divided around the country, that nobody really knows from state to state who is different. Plus the Southern Convention is very spread out.

Wow that is great!!!

[Vradic]

Here's one I've been trying to get an answer to for a while, and not just from Baptists.

When and how, during the modern era, did the current practice of salvation by prayer begin? I know that prayer is useful and good. I know the ideas in the prayer suggestions I've often seen for "asking Jesus into your life" etc usually seem like worthwhile thoughts. But I don't see any examples of a prayer as the MOMENT of salvation in the Bible, and I'm wondering when that practice started.

I do see instances in Acts where one was saved by the Grace of God at the moment of Baptism, when they placed their Faith in him. And from what I know of Baptist doctrine, it seems Baptism is usually expected. However, they still seem to put prayer as marking the moment of salvation rather than Baptism, even though they don't seem to be saying one "earns" salvation by the prayer any more than one would think a corpse "earns" life by being buried (as per the image of Baptism).

I'm not so much asking for theological justification here, as if you have any idea when this started? Preferably with some kind of historical documentation, from either theological or secular sources. I just want to know.

[CID_0687]

Cbut,

Would you be able to recommend a site where a person could find the "tenants" of your faith? Sort of like when someone asks about catholicism, we send them to the Catechisms.

I have a friend in my Historical research class who is non-baptist and would like some information to get started with.
I believe her paper is going going to be about colonial American Baptists.
Although I am not cbut1 and have never played him on tv, this may be a good place to start.

This is the official Southern Baptist website.

http://www.sbc.net/

[CID_0687]

Here's one I've been trying to get an answer to for a while, and not just from Baptists.

When and how, during the modern era, did the current practice of salvation by prayer begin? I know that prayer is useful and good. I know the ideas in the prayer suggestions I've often seen for "asking Jesus into your life" etc usually seem like worthwhile thoughts. But I don't see any examples of a prayer as the MOMENT of salvation in the Bible, and I'm wondering when that practice started.

I do see instances in Acts where one was saved by the Grace of God at the moment of Baptism, when they placed their Faith in him. And from what I know of Baptist doctrine, it seems Baptism is usually expected. However, they still seem to put prayer as marking the moment of salvation rather than Baptism, even though they don't seem to be saying one "earns" salvation by the prayer any more than one would think a corpse "earns" life by being buried (as per the image of Baptism).

I'm not so much asking for theological justification here, as if you have any idea when this started? Preferably with some kind of historical documentation, from either theological or secular sources. I just want to know.
That's an excellent question Vradic...

I would assume the Biblical basis for this would be Romans 10:8-13

8)But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:

9) That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved.

10) For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

11) As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame"

12) For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile- the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,

13) for, everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." (NIV)

So, the confession would be the basis of the prayer...but if this is a modern thing or has been practiced since the beginning of the church I do not know.

Now I'll need to go research.

[Vradic]

That's an excellent question Vradic...

I would assume the Biblical basis for this would be Romans 10:8-13

8)But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:

9) That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved.

10) For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

11) As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame"

12) For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile- the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,

13) for, everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." (NIV)

So, the confession would be the basis of the prayer...but if this is a modern thing or has been practiced since the beginning of the church I do not know.

Now I'll need to go research.
I have had people use that passage as the theological basis for "salvation by prayer" before. But confession of faith in Jesus and his resurrection is usually made before others, isn't it? To me, however, it seems Paul is pickup up again on the same theme of Resurrection he covered in chapter 6.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
Rom 6:2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
Rom 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have become united with {Him} in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be {in the likeness} of His resurrection,
Rom 6:6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with {Him,} in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
Rom 6:7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
When one understands that Baptism is the burial in water of a sin-dead corpse who trusts in the Blood of Jesus to grant life, Baptism itself becomes a visible confession of one's belief in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, and our Faith in him.
(Paul had a very extended writing style. No wonder Peter wrote that some found his writing difficult)

I hope you do find some evidence of when "salvation by prayer" began to be practiced (or at least some historical evidence, whether or not one considers such instances the beginning). I can't trace it back further than about half a century, and I thought it went at least further back than that.

[CID_0687]

I have had people use that passage as the theological basis for "salvation by prayer" before. But confession of faith in Jesus and his resurrection is usually made before others, isn't it? To me, however, it seems Paul is pickup up again on the same theme of Resurrection he covered in chapter 6.

When one understands that Baptism is the burial in water of a sin-dead corpse who trusts in the Blood of Jesus to grant life, Baptism itself becomes a visible confession of one's belief in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, and our Faith in him.
(Paul had a very extended writing style. No wonder Peter wrote that some found his writing difficult)

I hope you do find some evidence of when "salvation by prayer" began to be practiced (or at least some historical evidence, whether or not one considers such instances the beginning). I can't trace it back further than about half a century, and I thought it went at least further back than that.
Half a century? :think: Maybe it was a Billy Graham invention.

But seriously, I am going to have to research that, and I'll get back with you on it.

You've brought up another point, about Baptism...I know that many people believe that if you have not been Baptized then you are not saved.

I personally have difficulty with that, to me Baptism is an outward expression of ones inner faith. It's a way, just as confession is, to tell the world I have decided to follow Jesus.

Many people are not physically able to be Baptized, but they can still receive Christ in their lives. Does not being Baptized make them any less of a Christian? I should hope not.

So this is my question, what is the basis of the belief that you MUST be baptized?

[CID_0687]

Here's one article that suggests that salvation by prayer started during the reformation.

Where Did the “Sinner’s Prayer” Originate?

The “sinner’s prayer” probably evolved, in some form or another, in the early days of the Protestant Reformation movement, as a misguided reaction against the Roman Catholic dogma of justification by means of meritorious works.

For example, Jacobus Faber (c. 1450-1536), who has been called “the father of the French reformation” (though he never formally left the Catholic Church), wrote a commentary on the epistles of Paul in 1512. (This was five years before Luther’s break with the Roman Church in Germany.) In this volume Faber argued that justification is obtained through faith without works (see McClintock & Strong, Cyclopedia, Grand Rapids: Baker, 1969, Vol. III, p. 441).

Later, rebelling against the “merit works” system of Romanism, Luther would contend that salvation is on the basis of “faith alone.” According to one biographer, Luther exclaimed:


“I, Doctor Martin Luther, unworthy herald of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, confess this article, that faith alone without works justifies before God” (J.H. Merle D’Aubigne, Life and Times of Martin Luther, Chicago: Moody, 1955, p. 56).

So convinced was Luther of this proposition that, when producing his own translation of the New Testament, he altered the text of Romans 3:28 to read: ”. . . a man is justified by faith only.” The word “only” is not in any Greek manuscript available. Luther even rejected the divine origin of the book of James because of its emphasis on “works,” in addition to faith.

To believe, therefore, that one may be justified from sin, by simply praying the “sinner’s prayer” as a substitute for obedience to the plan of salvation, is to labor under a delusion that is void of biblical support. Undoubtedly, many who offer the “sinner’s prayer” are exceedingly sincere. Sincerity alone, however, is unavailing (Prov. 14:12; Acts 23:1; 26:9).
http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/368-the-sinners-prayer-is-it-biblical

[cbut1]

Why don't Baptists believe in speaking in tongues? I know that some do, but the majority is against it.

First let me clarify that not all of those whom claim to be Baptist are Baptist. It has a vital impact on topics such as this to make that distinction.


I have never in all of my years of being a Baptist nor of studying Baptist history have I found or heard of the belief in the speaking in tongues as it is applied in Pentecostal circles.

Baptist do believe in the speaking in tongues as it is applied in scripture with the meaning being language or dialects of a language. For example the Americans, British, and Australians all speak the basics of the English language but it is definatly different dialects.

[cbut1]

It's difficult to read single space.

Try harder, nothing worth having comes easy. :)

[cbut1]

I think you'd be very surprised at how many Baptists speak in tongues.

Are you speaking on the behalf of Baptist or are you just adding your 2 cents?

[cbut1]

Any Baptists in the house?


:snooty:
Not at the time you asked. :razz:

[cbut1]

Hi cbut,

Hey, why can't women be preachers?

:)):)):)) Just Kindin with ya!!
Have a good day!



:razz:

[cbut1]

Cbut,

Would you be able to recommend a site where a person could find the "tenants" of your faith? Sort of like when someone asks about catholicism, we send them to the Catechisms.

I have a friend in my Historical research class who is non-baptist and would like some information to get started with.
I believe her paper is going going to be about colonial American Baptists.


I have a few sites that go to a couple of our sister Churches and they usually have a listing of what we believe on the page. Is that what you think she would like?

A good study indeed she is endeavoring into. There will be many obsticles though since we are fairly independant in our formation we don't have a big clearing house of info like you efficient types do. Let her know I will aid in any manner I can and if need be I can offer you both my personal e-mail.

I will contact a few of my more eggheaded brothers to make this quicker. :mrgreen:

[cbut1]

Wow that is great!!!



Don't get to excited. :snooty:

[cbut1]

Here's one I've been trying to get an answer to for a while, and not just from Baptists.

When and how, during the modern era, did the current practice of salvation by prayer begin? I know that prayer is useful and good. I know the ideas in the prayer suggestions I've often seen for "asking Jesus into your life" etc usually seem like worthwhile thoughts. But I don't see any examples of a prayer as the MOMENT of salvation in the Bible, and I'm wondering when that practice started.

I do see instances in Acts where one was saved by the Grace of God at the moment of Baptism, when they placed their Faith in him. And from what I know of Baptist doctrine, it seems Baptism is usually expected. However, they still seem to put prayer as marking the moment of salvation rather than Baptism, even though they don't seem to be saying one "earns" salvation by the prayer any more than one would think a corpse "earns" life by being buried (as per the image of Baptism).

I'm not so much asking for theological justification here, as if you have any idea when this started? Preferably with some kind of historical documentation, from either theological or secular sources. I just want to know.


I have never considered it in the way you presented this, I will spend some time on it.

Although I will say now that prayer is a byproduct of the action taken in ones heart. See the HS convicts our hearts of our sin, and the need for Christs righteousness, and the judgement to come. Our heart then compells us to seek Gods Mercy for our un-righteousness. The heart moves first then our mind and body follow.

A few verses that might apply here towards answering your question though.

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I get.

Luk 18:13 But the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote his breast, saying, God, be thou merciful to me a sinner.

Luk 18:14 I say unto you, This man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be humbled; but he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

[cbut1]

Although I am not cbut1 and have never played him on tv, this may be a good place to start.

This is the official Southern Baptist website.

http://www.sbc.net/



Don't bother with this because the SBC has accepted that they have their origens in the reformation (at least a good portion of them). No long standing True Baptist has ever accepted that nonsense.

[cbut1]

Half a century? :think: Maybe it was a Billy Graham invention.

But seriously, I am going to have to research that, and I'll get back with you on it.

You've brought up another point, about Baptism...I know that many people believe that if you have not been Baptized then you are not saved.

I personally have difficulty with that, to me Baptism is an outward expression of ones inner faith. It's a way, just as confession is, to tell the world I have decided to follow Jesus.

Many people are not physically able to be Baptized, but they can still receive Christ in their lives. Does not being Baptized make them any less of a Christian? I should hope not.

So this is my question, what is the basis of the belief that you MUST be baptized?



Who are you asking Vradic or Baptist?




or both :doh:

[cbut1]

OK all caught up I will see your responses in a few hrs.

[buflineks]

I have a few sites that go to a couple of our sister Churches and they usually have a listing of what we believe on the page. Is that what you think she would like?

A good study indeed she is endeavoring into. There will be many obsticles though since we are fairly independant in our formation we don't have a big clearing house of info like you efficient types do. Let her know I will aid in any manner I can and if need be I can offer you both my personal e-mail.

I will contact a few of my more eggheaded brothers to make this quicker. :mrgreen:

Thanks cbut.

I appreciate it and I know that she will.

[vir doctus]

The two of you are going to be the death of the English language...
:angel:

[Displaced]

Don't bother with this because the SBC has accepted that they have their origens in the reformation (at least a good portion of them). No long standing True Baptist has ever accepted that nonsense.

To be truthful didn't the Baptist originate from the reformation? Wasn't the London Confession of 1644 written by Anabaptist and Particular Baptist and a revision was signed by 107 Baptist churches in England in 1689.

Just saying that at one point every Baptist alive believed that reformation nonsense. A person could argue the founders are the "true baptist".

[mgifford]

Are you speaking on the behalf of Baptist or are you just adding your 2 cents?

My whole family have been Baptists probably way longer than you've been living. My grand parents, uncles and aunts, my parents, all my cousins, and many friends that are not now Baptists, but other.

However, you seem a bit testie, and I never argue religion, so I will refrain. Thanks for the reply.

[mgifford]

My whole family have been Baptists probably way longer than you've been living. My grand parents, uncles and aunts, my parents, all my cousins, and many friends that are not now Baptists, but other.

However, you seem a bit testie, and I never argue religion, so I will refrain. Thanks for the reply.

PS, I was Baptist until I was about 21, sent both my kids to Baptist schools from k-4 to high school. Then they started public high school in the 9TH grade. Since I did most of the "raising and homework" helping, I probably could say I am Baptist educated thru them...but for my Bible college degree from another religion school. LOL!

I like the Baptist folks, but not every one I meet, I guess. Anyway, you Baptist folks sure do get ill when "tongues" are mentioned. Is that arguing? I don't mean to.

[5thIDSoldier]

I think you'd be very surprised at how many Baptists speak in tongues.

And how many of us that don't because we see it as unscriptural, but I guess that is for another thread.

[mgifford]

And how many of us that don't because we see it as unscriptural, but I guess that is for another thread.

Probably so!

[RayMan]

And how many of us that don't because we see it as unscriptural, but I guess that is for another thread.

Where is the surprise in that? :mrgreen:

[CID_0687]

Who are you asking Vradic or Baptist?




or both :doh:
It's directed towards whomever would like to respond. :)

[cbut1]

The two of you are going to be the death of the English language...
:angel:



It is a good thing that we do not claim that to be our strengths. :D

besides what would you have to do if it wasn't to help correct us.





:hug:

[cbut1]

To be truthful didn't the Baptist originate from the reformation? Wasn't the London Confession of 1644 written by Anabaptist and Particular Baptist and a revision was signed by 107 Baptist churches in England in 1689.

Just saying that at one point every Baptist alive believed that reformation nonsense. A person could argue the founders are the "true baptist".


No they did not. There are some groups here in the US that are content within themselves to accept that, but they are not from the line of ancient Baptist if they do.

[cbut1]

My whole family have been Baptists probably way longer than you've been living. My grand parents, uncles and aunts, my parents, all my cousins, and many friends that are not now Baptists, but other.

However, you seem a bit testie, and I never argue religion, so I will refrain. Thanks for the reply.



I was just askin? I was wanting to make sure that someone didn't think your responses were Baptist if in fact you were not Baptist.

If one wants to take that as credentials then I am personally a 7th generation Baptist going back to nearly the founding of this country.

[CID_0687]

Don't bother with this because the SBC has accepted that they have their origens in the reformation (at least a good portion of them). No long standing True Baptist has ever accepted that nonsense.
So you're saying that Southern Baptists aren't True Baptists, now that's interesting. Would you mind going into more detail on that?

[Displaced]

No they did not. There are some groups here in the US that are content within themselves to accept that, but they are not from the line of ancient Baptist if they do.

"Ancient line of Baptist"

Care to elaborate or are you just going to say I'm wrong and stomp away.:naughty::snooty::razz::razz:

[cbut1]

Thanks cbut.

I appreciate it and I know that she will.


Here is a few sites that are relatively good.



http://www.pbministries.org/History/Origin%20and%20Perpetuity/origin_and_perpetuity.htm

http://www.pbministries.org/History/John%20T.%20Christian/vol1/history_of_the_baptist_vol1.htm


This one is the Church that my wifes uncle is Pastor of in Oregon.

http://www.newhopealoha.org/


This is a link to a listing of ABA (American Baptist Association) Churches.


http://www.abaptist.org/ABA/chlinksbychurch.htm

[RayMan]

cbut,
Would you consider David Cloud to be a good source of Baptist info for the folk here?

[cbut1]

cbut,
Would you consider David Cloud to be a good source of Baptist info for the folk here?



I don't know of the man but I can look into it.

[RayMan]

I don't know of the man but I can look into it.

He is an Independent Fundamental Baptist preacher. Prolific writer.

http://www.wayoflife.org/index.html


Thanks.

[Displaced]

If one wants to take that as credentials then I am personally a 7th generation Baptist going back to nearly the founding of this country.

LOL:lol::lol::lol:

You sure sound like a Baptist!!....LOL

Don't take offense all.:hug: It tickles me when folks start talking like that. Be sure to tell St. Peter in heaven that. He'll be impressed!LOL

I'll tell him I was raised in Southern Freewill Baptist and sang "Just as I am" every Sunday. LOL:dance:

[RayMan]

LOL:lol::lol::lol:

You sure sound like a Baptist!!....LOL

Don't take offense all.:hug: It tickles me when folks start talking like that. Be sure to tell St. Peter in heaven that. He'll be impressed!LOL

I'll tell him I was raised in Southern Freewill Baptist and sang "Just as I am" every Sunday. LOL:dance:

Was it always verses 1,2 and 4? We never sang the 3rd verse at the SB church I was a member of.

[CID_0687]

Was it always verses 1,2 and 4? We never sang the 3rd verse at the SB church I was a member of.
We've never sang verse three for any song at any Pentecostal or Baptist church I've been in, I've always assumed that verse threes where "bad luck" so we always work our way around 'em

[cbut1]

So you're saying that Southern Baptists aren't True Baptists, now that's interesting. Would you mind going into more detail on that?

Not completly, but there is more to the story.

Once upon a time here in the early stages of America most if not all Baptist Churches were in complete fellowship. Then some disturbing trends started to show up within some of the assemblies. At a gathering of the minds and (Persoanlities) some of these disturbing trends were brought out to the open to be discussed and hopefully corrected. alas with strong minded individuals that didn't happen.

Wiki actually has a very good accounting of it all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptist


Here is the portion that calls into question their validity as being still Baptist in doctrine.

Baptism
Southern Baptists maintain the historic Baptist practice of administering baptism only to persons who have reached the "age of accountability,"[44] and who have made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior (believers). They hold to the historic Baptist belief that immersion is the only valid mode of baptism. Candidates for membership in an SBC church must already be or become baptized believers. Some SBC congregations will accept previous baptisms by immersion from other denominations as being valid, provided that they were performed after the individual accepted Christ for salvation.


That is a big no no in Baptist work. The problem it poses is that if one accepts a Baptism from another denomination then it is tantimount to the admission of their validity and authority to administer NT Baptism. Baptist have always held that there is only One Assembly that Christ established with His Authority. Many men have bled and died in Baptist history holding up this very fundamental belief.


Just to add not all SBC Churches accept this lose application of Baptism and would be fine.

[cbut1]

"Ancient line of Baptist"

Care to elaborate or are you just going to say I'm wrong and stomp away.:naughty::snooty::razz::razz:


And you call me testy. :)

[cbut1]

LOL:lol::lol::lol:

You sure sound like a Baptist!!....LOL

Don't take offense all.:hug: It tickles me when folks start talking like that. Be sure to tell St. Peter in heaven that. He'll be impressed!LOL

I'll tell him I was raised in Southern Freewill Baptist and sang "Just as I am" every Sunday. LOL:dance:



If I am not mistaken I just carried on a thought YOU started.

[CID_0687]

Not completly, but there is more to the story.

Once upon a time here in the early stages of America most if not all Baptist Churches were if complete fellowship. Then some disturbing trends started to show up within some of the assemblies. At a gathering of the minds and (Persoanlities) some of these disturbing trends were brought out to the open to be discussed and hopefully corrected. alas with strong minded individuals that didn't happen.

Wiki actually has a very good accounting of it all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptist


Here is the portion that calls into question their validity as being still Baptist in doctrine.




That is a big no no in Baptist work. The problem it poses is that if one accepts a Baptism from another denomination then it is tantimount to the admission of their validity and authority to administer NT Baptism. Baptist have always held that there is only One Assembly that Christ established with His Authority. Many men have bled and died in Baptist history holding up this very fundamental belief.


Just to add not all SBC Churches accept this lose application of Baptism and would be fine.
OK...I guess that's why I'm in a Southern Baptist church then. Because I have to agree with that. I believe in Baptism by full immersion, and it shouldn't matter if it was done in a Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, or whatever denomination. As long as you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and it was in a Bible believing church then I don't see the issue.

That's almost like saying "My church is right, and everyone else is wrong."

That's simply not the case, there are some, and it's a very few, denominations that are completely wrong in their doctrine. But most have the same basic principles, and that's the main thing. If we can fellowship outside of our denomination then I see no reason why a baptism from another would not be accepted, we're serving the same God, have faith in the same God, and are striving for the same purposes.

[cbut1]

He is an Independent Fundamental Baptist preacher. Prolific writer.

http://www.wayoflife.org/index.html


Thanks.


I have run into that website before I will give it a go over.

One of the issues that I have run into with IFB is they tend to be more politically active and sounding militant in speach. That doesn't speak of their doctrine only their character.

[super cool ski instructor]

OK...I guess that's why I'm in a Southern Baptist church then. Because I have to agree with that. I believe in Baptism by full immersion, and it shouldn't matter if it was done in a Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, or whatever denomination. As long as you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and it was in a Bible believing church then I don't see the issue.

That's almost like saying "My church is right, and everyone else is wrong."

That's simply not the case, there are some, and it's a very few, denominations that are completely wrong in their doctrine. But most have the same basic principles, and that's the main thing. If we can fellowship outside of our denomination then I see no reason why a baptism from another would not be accepted, we're serving the same God, have faith in the same God, and are striving for the same purposes.

You and me, CID...we are in the same boat. I am a tried and true Southern Baptist, and I agree with everything you just said.

[cbut1]

OK...I guess that's why I'm in a Southern Baptist church then. Because I have to agree with that. I believe in Baptism by full immersion, and it shouldn't matter if it was done in a Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, or whatever denomination. As long as you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and it was in a Bible believing church then I don't see the issue.

That's almost like saying "My church is right, and everyone else is wrong."

That's simply not the case, there are some, and it's a very few, denominations that are completely wrong in their doctrine. But most have the same basic principles, and that's the main thing. If we can fellowship outside of our denomination then I see no reason why a baptism from another would not be accepted, we're serving the same God, have faith in the same God, and are striving for the same purposes.



I take it then that you didn't catch the implication to all other denominations in my post answering your first question. :whistle:







:mrgreen:

[cbut1]

OK...I guess that's why I'm in a Southern Baptist church then. Because I have to agree with that. I believe in Baptism by full immersion, and it shouldn't matter if it was done in a Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, or whatever denomination. As long as you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and it was in a Bible believing church then I don't see the issue.

That's almost like saying "My church is right, and everyone else is wrong."

That's simply not the case, there are some, and it's a very few, denominations that are completely wrong in their doctrine. But most have the same basic principles, and that's the main thing. If we can fellowship outside of our denomination then I see no reason why a baptism from another would not be accepted, we're serving the same God, have faith in the same God, and are striving for the same purposes.


Like I said not all SBC accept that, but many do.

[cbut1]

You and me, CID...we are in the same boat. I am a tried and true Southern Baptist, and I agree with everything you just said.



It is ok SCSI we still love ya. :D

[CID_0687]

You and me, CID...we are in the same boat. I am a tried and true Southern Baptist, and I agree with everything you just said.
I knew there was some reason I like you. :D

I'm really Pentecostal in my beliefs Ski, just happened to find my way to a Southern Baptist church one day.

And that's what it's suppose to be about, unity in the spirit.

Now, gimme a hug. :hug:

[CID_0687]

Like I said not all SBC accept that, but many do.
As should all churches IMHO.

[super cool ski instructor]

How about I whip up a good green bean casserole for you guys? :))

[Vradic]

Half a century? :think: Maybe it was a Billy Graham invention.

But seriously, I am going to have to research that, and I'll get back with you on it.

You've brought up another point, about Baptism...I know that many people believe that if you have not been Baptized then you are not saved.

I personally have difficulty with that, to me Baptism is an outward expression of ones inner faith. It's a way, just as confession is, to tell the world I have decided to follow Jesus.

Many people are not physically able to be Baptized, but they can still receive Christ in their lives. Does not being Baptized make them any less of a Christian? I should hope not.

So this is my question, what is the basis of the belief that you MUST be baptized?
The simple fact that Baptism is shown in all the specific conversion accounts in Acts, that it's written about in so many of the Epistles as tied both directly to salvation and with imagery of things that we should never deny, such as the burial of Jesus. It's even shown as a Christian parallel to what circumcision was under the old law. Who would think an uncircumcised male would have properly entered the covenant relationship with God under the Old Law?

I actually want to do a separate thread on this subject and am not trying to derail this one. I just need to do some research on the "sinners prayer" side of it. Quite honestly, it's of GREAT concern to me, as I really wonder if there are not multitudes of sincere people who want to follow God, who have been detoured around being cleansed in the Blood of Christ through faithful Immersion, by way of the "sinner's prayer" concept.

I tend to think the Devil spent centuries convincing people that when they were Baptized and even generally obedient, they EARNED their salvation, so that this distracted them from Faith in God. Then when this was seen for the lie it was, the Devil switched tactics and tried to convince people that their Faith saved them, and neither Baptism nor PUBLIC confession nor real Repentance to the point of working to change one's manner of living was important. I see the idea of salvation BY one's own faith the same as salvation BY one's own works. Rather we are saved BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, and expected to faithfully do our best to be obedient to God.

Rather than take up more space here, there is a link on the graphic in my signature to a page that addresses the Grace/Faith/Works issue in moderate detail.

I wonder what the circumstances would be that would prevent one from being immersed in water. I've never heard of such. As to whether one can possibly be saved without Baptism, I would most directly say I think it's much safer to follow the numerous examples of such that we are given in the New Testament by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, than to in a sense test God to see what we can "get by" without.

[jet]

Vradic, I think the verse used as your sig line pretty much answers your question...it's God's grace. Baptism is something we do but it doesn't save us. ;)

[hben]

OK, I got one.

I know that the Baptists have no direct ties to the Catholic church like many of the other denominations do...but if the Catholic church was the original church then where do Baptists come in? There has to be a tie to Catholicism some place right?

I think the Catholics left the Baptist Church after John the Baptist lost his head for going around dunking people in the river. Somehow sprinkling babies in a more controlled setting seemed to be the safer way to go. :cool:

Ok my Catholic brothers, for the record...this is not a serious post. It probably came about due to my watching the two party conventions back to back where it was hard to distinguish fact from fiction. :razz:

[Vradic]

Vradic, I think the verse used as your sig line pretty much answers your question...it's God's grace. Baptism is something we do but it doesn't save us. ;)
Check the link the sig leads to.

You are absolutely right that it's God's Grace that saves us. But baptism is just as necessary a part of what God expects of us as our faith, confession, and repentance. We can never go back and un-sin a sin; but God's Grace can erase it.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
I think it's clear that Peter is saying that while we are saved WHEN we are Baptized, it's not the purification of the water, but BY the Power of the Grace of God that he grants WHEN we obey him and put our faith in him.

A thread was just recently created for discussing Baptism in depth.
http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?t=848231
So I hope you don't mind if I copy this there, including quoting Jetfire.

[CID_0687]

How about I whip up a good green bean casserole for you guys? :))
:snooty: Always plenty of that...never enough banana pudding.

[cbut1]

:snooty: Always plenty of that...never enough banana pudding.

Preach it brother

[CID_0687]

Check the link the sig leads to.

You are absolutely right that it's God's Grace that saves us. But baptism is just as necessary a part of what God expects of us as our faith, confession, and repentance. We can never go back and un-sin a sin; but God's Grace can erase it.

I think it's clear that Peter is saying that while we are saved WHEN we are Baptized, it's not the purification of the water, but BY the Power of the Grace of God that he grants WHEN we obey him and put our faith in him.

A thread was just recently created for discussing Baptism in depth.
http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?t=848231
So I hope you don't mind if I copy this there, including quoting Jetfire.
I agree that baptism is a vital part of our salvation...but I do not think, like some do, that a person who is not baptized will be damned to Hell.

Take a person who doesn't receive salvation until they are laying on their death bed for instance...how would that person physically be able to be baptized? They wouldn't.

And speaking from the experience of my dad passing away, he received salvation just moments before taken to ICU and spending the next 32 hours unconscious. The final two days he was in and out, but there is no doubt that my dad came to the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

I don't think God is gonna say "You weren't baptized, go to hell, go directly to hell, do not pass go do not collect $200." His grace is sufficient.

[cbut1]

I agree that baptism is a vital part of our salvation...but I do not think, like some do, that a person who is not baptized will be damned to Hell.

Take a person who doesn't receive salvation until they are laying on their death bed for instance...how would that person physically be able to be baptized? They wouldn't.

And speaking from the experience of my dad passing away, he received salvation just moments before taken to ICU and spending the next 32 hours unconscious. The final two days he was in and out, but there is no doubt that my dad came to the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

I don't think God is gonna say "You weren't baptized, go to hell, go directly to hell, do not pass go do not collect $200." His grace is sufficient.



There is absolute certainty in the scripture that shows the value of Baptism as being paramount in service to God for entering the Kingdom. Alas though I would not be able to make a statment concerning the scenario you have just offered beyond this take comfort that God will be Merciful unto whom He will be Merciful.

[CID_0687]

There is absolute certainty in the scripture that shows the value of Baptism as being paramount in service to God for entering the Kingdom. Alas though I would not be able to make a statment concerning the scenario you have just offered beyond this take comfort that God will be Merciful unto whom He will be Merciful.
I believe we can agree on that.

[Vradic]

I agree that baptism is a vital part of our salvation...but I do not think, like some do, that a person who is not baptized will be damned to Hell.

Take a person who doesn't receive salvation until they are laying on their death bed for instance...how would that person physically be able to be baptized? They wouldn't.

And speaking from the experience of my dad passing away, he received salvation just moments before taken to ICU and spending the next 32 hours unconscious. The final two days he was in and out, but there is no doubt that my dad came to the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

I don't think God is gonna say "You weren't baptized, go to hell, go directly to hell, do not pass go do not collect $200." His grace is sufficient.
As I believe we can agree is appropriate, God is the final judge of each person's eternal destiny. I won't pass judgment on your father, or anyone else in particular.

But for those of us who are not prevented from becoming Baptized; shouldn't we be concerned over whether we might hear God say; "Why weren't you willing to be Baptized?"

[Displaced]

:snooty: Always plenty of that...never enough banana pudding.

LOL!!

My grandmother makes it in a stainless wash tub. It's big enough to give 2 year olds a bath in.:)):))

[CID_0687]

LOL!!

My grandmother makes it in a stainless wash tub. It's big enough to give 2 year olds a bath in.:)):))
I'm in envy right now.

My wife's uncle was the pastor of the church we met at. Auntie Sandra makes the best banana pudding I've ever tasted...so whenever I knew we were going to be having a potluck, I'd call her up and ask her to save a bowl for me. And she would usually find the biggest tupperware bowl she had and call me to come get it. I'd have nanner pudding for days. :drool:

For those of you who do not know, Pentecostal women cook just as good as Baptist women...in fact, there's a little Methodist church that I go sing at every year for their Christmas program, and Methodist ladies know how to cook too.

Being raised in the Episcopal church I can say that those ladies did not know how to cook...I'm sure I'll take heat for this statement, but it is a fact. :D

[RayMan]

I'm in envy right now.

My wife's uncle was the pastor of the church we met at. Auntie Sandra makes the best banana pudding I've ever tasted...so whenever I knew we were going to be having a potluck, I'd call her up and ask her to save a bowl for me. And she would usually find the biggest tupperware bowl she had and call me to come get it. I'd have nanner pudding for days. :drool:

For those of you who do not know, Pentecostal women cook just as good as Baptist women...in fact, there's a little Methodist church that I go sing at every year for their Christmas program, and Methodist ladies know how to cook too.

Being raised in the Episcopal church I can say that those ladies did not know how to cook...I'm sure I'll take heat for this statement, but it is a fact. :D

They didn't have to know how to cook. Episcopalians get to drink alchohol right out in open at church socials, unlike the other groups you mentioned. A little alcohol can go a long way to deadening the palate. :mrgreen:

[mgifford]

I'm in envy right now.

My wife's uncle was the pastor of the church we met at. Auntie Sandra makes the best banana pudding I've ever tasted...so whenever I knew we were going to be having a potluck, I'd call her up and ask her to save a bowl for me. And she would usually find the biggest tupperware bowl she had and call me to come get it. I'd have nanner pudding for days. :drool:

For those of you who do not know, Pentecostal women cook just as good as Baptist women...in fact, there's a little Methodist church that I go sing at every year for their Christmas program, and Methodist ladies know how to cook too.

Being raised in the Episcopal church I can say that those ladies did not know how to cook...I'm sure I'll take heat for this statement, but it is a fact. :D

Being "United Methodist" I have to agree. LOL!

[CID_0687]

They didn't have to know how to cook. Episcopalians get to drink alchohol right out in open at church socials, unlike the other groups you mentioned. A little alcohol can go a long way to deadening the palate. :mrgreen:
:))

That's so very true...I remember one particular event where Father Tooey, was so drunk that he brought his accordion into the fellowship hall and started singing Irish drinking songs.

I miss that little old Leprechaun, he was a pretty cool guy...his Irish accent was cool, there's a radio preacher, Allister something, that reminds me a lot of Father Tooey.

[RayMan]

:))

That's so very true...I remember one particular event where Father Tooey, was so drunk that he brought his accordion into the fellowship hall and started singing Irish drinking songs.

I miss that little old Leprechaun, he was a pretty cool guy...his Irish accent was cool, there's a radio preacher, Allister something, that reminds me a lot of Father Tooey.

Father Tooey. Did he chew and keep a spittoon in the pulpit?

[Displaced]

I'm in envy right now.

My wife's uncle was the pastor of the church we met at. Auntie Sandra makes the best banana pudding I've ever tasted...so whenever I knew we were going to be having a potluck, I'd call her up and ask her to save a bowl for me. And she would usually find the biggest tupperware bowl she had and call me to come get it. I'd have nanner pudding for days. :drool:

For those of you who do not know, Pentecostal women cook just as good as Baptist women...in fact, there's a little Methodist church that I go sing at every year for their Christmas program, and Methodist ladies know how to cook too.

Being raised in the Episcopal church I can say that those ladies did not know how to cook...I'm sure I'll take heat for this statement, but it is a fact. :D

My grandmother cooks for both Baptist and Methodist. In small communities in the South everyone knows everyone.

She says the Methodist don't usually like onions in their tater salad and don't eat as much.:rolleyes::)) The Baptist, she says, will clean her out.

P.s. My wife bought a new nanner puddin pan 2 weeks ago and dang if we haven't used it yet. LOL

[super cool ski instructor]

:snooty: Always plenty of that...never enough banana pudding.

Ooh....I can do banana pudding :drool:

[CID_0687]

Ooh....I can do banana pudding :drool:
You're a magnificent woman...this calls for another hug!! :hug:

[super cool ski instructor]

You're a magnificent woman...this calls for another hug!! :hug:

I'll take it :hug:

[mgifford]

My grandmother cooks for both Baptist and Methodist. In small communities in the South everyone knows everyone.

She says the Methodist don't usually like onions in their tater salad and don't eat as much.:rolleyes::)) The Baptist, she says, will clean her out.

P.s. My wife bought a new nanner puddin pan 2 weeks ago and dang if we haven't used it yet. LOL

Yep. I started leaving out the onions years ago in my tater salad. Maybe that's why I'm Methodist.

[CID_0687]

Yep. I started leaving out the onions years ago in my tater salad. Maybe that's why I'm Methodist.
Pentecostals have been known to swing both ways on this onion debate, I personally like onions in the tater salad.

[mgifford]

pentecostals have been known to swing both ways on this onion debate, i personally like onions in the tater salad.

+1

[RayMan]

Pentecostals have been known to swing both ways on this onion debate, I personally like onions in the tater salad.

Are the taters whipped or chunky?

[vir doctus]

Are the taters whipped or chunky?

Whipped potato salad? Is that San Francisco gourmet? :confused:

[mgifford]

whipped potato salad? Is that san francisco gourmet? :confused:

lol!

[Displaced]

Are the taters whipped or chunky?

Hmm.....

I like it a little of both (small chunks), served at room temperature, with a boiled egg cut in slices and placed on top for appearance, and with pepper sprinkled on top of that.:clap:

I'm starving!!!!!!!!!
:clap:

[RayMan]

Whipped potato salad? Is that San Francisco gourmet? :confused:

Nope. My mom is from Arkansas and has made it this way my whole life. Fixes a huge batch of mashed potatoes and then mixes in all the fixins to turn it into potato salad.

Tastes great. I should ask her when she first started making it like that.

[vir doctus]

Nope. My mom is from Arkansas and has made it this way my whole life. Fixes a huge batch of mashed potatoes and then mixes in all the fixins to turn it into potato salad.

Tastes great. I should ask her when she first started making it like that.

That 'splains it - all your kin folk lost their teeth chewing shot in the squirrel, the potato salad had to be whipped to go down.

:angel:

[CID_0687]

I prefer chunky tater salad...

Me thinks we have successfully hijacked this thread.

[CID_0687]

That 'splains it - all your kin folk lost their teeth chewing shot in the squirrel, the potato salad had to be whipped to go down.

:angel:
:naughty: My pap's side of that family is from Arkansas, and I'll have you know they all still had SOME teeth. :snooty:

[jet]

Heck with potato salad...the whole Jell-o thing creeps me out. That and Miracle Whip.

[jet]

:naughty: My pap's side of that family is from Arkansas, and I'll have you know they all still had SOME teeth. :snooty:

Do they take turns using them? ;)

[CID_0687]

Heck with potato salad...the whole Jell-o thing creeps me out. That and Miracle Whip.
Miracle Whip :sick:...must be a California Baptist thing.

[jet]

Miracle Whip :sick:...must be a California Baptist thing.

I thought it was more of a Southern thing :eh:

Either way, it's nasty. :sick:

[CID_0687]

No...we use real mayonaise here..Not Miracle Whip, not Light mayo, not fat free mayo, and NOT Kraft Mayo...Hellman's or Duke's thank you very much.

[jet]

Best Foods is Hellman's out here. Great stuff!!!

[CID_0687]

:think: We may need to attempt to get this thread back on track.

Here's a question for the Baptists.

Why does every service in a traditional Baptist church have to close with "Just as I Am"?

[blazer]

Best Foods is Hellman's out here. Great stuff!!!
yes maam

[blazer]

:think: We may need to attempt to get this thread back on track.

Here's a question for the Baptists.

Why does every service in a traditional Baptist church have to close with "Just as I Am"?

Our services don't. They close with various songs and sometimes we don't even have an altar call. And yes, CID, I am a Baptist!

[blazer]

love this song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbaGh7DUDpE&feature=related

[CID_0687]

Our services don't. They close with various songs and sometimes we don't even have an altar call. And yes, CID, I am a Baptist!
I know Blaze, ;) It was just my lame attempt at humor, but also trying to get the thread back on track.

[blazer]

I know Blaze, ;) It was just my lame attempt at humor, but also trying to get the thread back on track.

You always make me smile! :hug:

[Displaced]

deleted

[RayMan]

That 'splains it - all your kin folk lost their teeth chewing shot in the squirrel, the potato salad had to be whipped to go down.

:angel:

I've been outed...I feel so violated.

[RayMan]

:think: We may need to attempt to get this thread back on track.

Here's a question for the Baptists.

Why does every service in a traditional Baptist church have to close with "Just as I Am"?

If pastor was fishin' for backsliders that day we would sing "Come Home. Come Home, Ye who are weary Come Home..."

[CID_0687]

If pastor was fishin' for backsliders that day we would sing "Come Home. Come Home, Ye who are weary Come Home..."
Oh yeah I forgot about that one...how many times do you remember the service opening with "I'll Fly Away"?

[Displaced]

Oh yeah I forgot about that one...how many times do you remember the service opening with "I'll Fly Away"?

How about "Power in the Blood" as an opener.

My Mother plays "Keep on the Firing Line" on the piano in that old school southern left hand bouncing back and forth with the right hand jumping like crazy style. She used to wake me up ,when I was a unruly teenager, at 5:30 am on Saturday morning playing as hard and loud as she could.

I hadn't thought about that in years. :clap:

[Displaced]

If I am not mistaken I just carried on a thought YOU started.

Lost me. What was the thought again?

Who were the "ancient Baptist" or the first church to call themselves Baptist? So I can look up what they believed.

I read a book on the history of Baptist a couple of years ago and if I'm not mistaken the churches of the First London Confession were the first organized Baptist.

[RayMan]

Oh yeah I forgot about that one...how many times do you remember the service opening with "I'll Fly Away"?

At the Baptist church that only happened if I was leading music with guitar.

We were big on "I've Got a Mansion Just Over the Hilltop."

[RayMan]

How about "Power in the Blood" as an opener.

My Mother plays "Keep on the Firing Line" on the piano in that old school southern left hand bouncing back and forth with the right hand jumping like crazy style. She used to wake me up ,when I was a unruly teenager, at 5:30 am on Saturday morning playing as hard and loud as she could.

I hadn't thought about that in years. :clap:

Precious memories...how they linger.

[RayMan]

Lost me. What was the thought again?

Who were the "ancient Baptist" or the first church to call themselves Baptist? So I can look up what they believed.

I read a book on the history of Baptist a couple of years ago and if I'm not mistaken the churches of the First London Confession were the first organized Baptist.

So we had like 1600 years of disorganized Baptist churches? Hard to imagine. :whistle:

[Displaced]

So we had like 1600 years of disorganized Baptist churches? Hard to imagine. :whistle:

I think The London Confession was the first Baptist statement of faith so to speak.

So, I guess your right. They weren't organized like the Catholics and their councils like Nicea. The Catholics had councils for 1600 years not the baptist.:whistle:

[RayMan]

This is funny. Google "Ancient Baptists" and the first thing that comes up is a Catholic apologetics site webpage with a reprint of the article:

"Ancient Baptists" and Other Myths

Cbut, any comments bro?

[RayMan]

Next site that pops up is a Baptist site entitled:

Ancient Baptists Groups

http://www.baptistbanner.net/baptist_history/ancient_baptist_groups.html

Their opening statement is:

Many people have tried to rewrite history by erasing Baptist history. By erasing our history people have to erase millions of Baptists and many ancient Baptist groups. We must learn about these groups and their persecutions to understand just why we are Baptist and why we must stand for our Lord.

Would like to see our various historians around here explain which history is right, the one that calls Ancient Baptists a myth or the one that delineates said history.

[vir doctus]

I read a book on the history of Baptist a couple of years ago and if I'm not mistaken the churches of the First London Confession were the first organized Baptist.

Sniff test: FAILED

[RayMan]

Sniff test: FAILED

I take it you aren't even going to bother with the white gloves test then.

[CID_0687]

This is funny. Google "Ancient Baptists" and the first thing that comes up is a Catholic apologetics site webpage with a reprint of the article:

"Ancient Baptists" and Other Myths

Cbut, any comments bro?
I got the same thing, all the sites were placing the origin of the Baptists around the same time as the Reformation.

[RayMan]

I got the same thing, all the sites were placing the origin of the Baptists around the same time as the Reformation.

Check out the link to the Baptist site. They go WAY back. Personally I believe in the Ancient Baptist theory.

[CID_0687]

Check out the link to the Baptist site. They go WAY back. Personally I believe in the Ancient Baptist theory.
I'll check that out.

[cbut1]

I am at work and cannot play right now.

[CID_0687]

I CONNOT play either...but i can play. :whistle:

[RayMan]

I CONNOT play either...but i can play. :whistle:

CID! Don't make fun of people's grammatical shortcomings.





































That's my gig.

[CID_0687]

My apologies Master Ray, I was just trying to assist in your absence.

[RayMan]

My apologies Master Ray, I was just trying to assist in your absence.

Well, as long as your heart is in the right place while dissing your brothers and sisters in Christ, that's alright.


It's all about the heart.

[CID_0687]

Well, as long as your heart is in the right place while dissing your brothers and sisters in Christ, that's alright.


It's all about the heart.
I made sure it was right behind my pocket sized New Testament and Psalms...I had to move the can of Copenhagen out of the way first, as I didn't want to offend anyone.

[RayMan]

I made sure it was right behind my pocket sized New Testament and Psalms...I had to move the can of Copenhagen out of the way first, as I didn't want to offend anyone.

Copeland-Hagin?

That will indeed offend some folk around here. :mrgreen:

[CID_0687]

Copeland-Hagin?

That will indeed offend some folk around here. :mrgreen:
:)) Indeed it would.

[THE LIGHT]

First let me clarify that not all of those whom claim to be Baptist are Baptist. It has a vital impact on topics such as this to make that distinction.


I have never in all of my years of being a Baptist nor of studying Baptist history have I found or heard of the belief in the speaking in tongues as it is applied in Pentecostal circles.

Baptist do believe in the speaking in tongues as it is applied in scripture with the meaning being language or dialects of a language. For example the Americans, British, and Australians all speak the basics of the English language but it is definatly different dialects.

So do they believe in the events of Pentecost being part of todays life?


BTW I think this thread is really great. I am really learning things I never new. Thanks cbut!

[THE LIGHT]

Don't get to excited. :snooty:

:((

Better?:mrgreen:

[cbut1]

I prefer chunky tater salad...

Me thinks we have successfully hijacked this thread.



Never

Have you forgotten Baptist = plenty of food.

Consider this our Catholic and Jewish version of Oral Traditions. :D

[cbut1]

Miracle Whip :sick:...must be a California Baptist thing.



Blasphemy you speak


We exclude people for works of Miracle Whip.

[cbut1]

:think: We may need to attempt to get this thread back on track.

Here's a question for the Baptists.

Why does every service in a traditional Baptist church have to close with "Just as I Am"?



Maybe they have old songbooks.


Just as I am without on plea
but that they Blood was shed for me.

[CID_0687]

Never

Have you forgotten Baptist = plenty of food.

Consider this our Catholic and Jewish version of Oral Traditions. :D
:))

And I must agree on the Miracle Whip thing...that's darn near grounds for stoning.

[cbut1]

Lost me. What was the thought again?

Who were the "ancient Baptist" or the first church to call themselves Baptist? So I can look up what they believed.

I read a book on the history of Baptist a couple of years ago and if I'm not mistaken the churches of the First London Confession were the first organized Baptist.


Did you see the links I offered to my friend Buflinks? if not go back to around page 9 or 10 they are some good sources.



Here are a few excerpts

Charles Butler, Roman Catholic, says:

It is observable that this denomination of Christians-now truly respectable, but in their origin as little intellectual as any-first propagated the principles of religious liberty (Butler, Historical Memoirs respecting the English, Irish, and Scottish Catholics, I. p. 325. London, 1819).

Shocking coming from a blood ancester of mine.


The happy succession of William and Mary to the throne of England, February 13, 1689, and the passage of the Toleration Act, on May 24 following, secured comparative liberty to the Baptists. They were tolerated but still under the power of the State. Great had been their sufferings; but they had remained consistent in their advocacy of the rights of conscience. Their views had prevailed at tremendous sacrifice. "The Baptists were the first and only propounders of absolute liberty," says the celebrated John Locke, "just and true liberty, equal and impartial liberty" (Locke, Essay on Toleration, p. 31, 4th ed.).


The part the English Baptists played in obtaining soul liberty is now conceded by the historians. Price says:

It belonged to the members of a calumniated and despised sect, few in numbers and poor in circumstances, to bring forth to public view, in their simplicity and omnipotence, those immortal principles which are now universally recognized as of Divine authority and of universal obligation. Other writers of more distinguished name succeeded, and robbed them of their honor; but their title is so good, and the amount of service they performed on behalf of the common interests of humanity is so incalculable, that an impartial posterity must assign to them their due meed of praise (Price, History of Protestant Nonconformity, I. p. 222).


The latest book on the subject is by James Kenworthy. He says: "On the subject of baptism they have always followed the practice of the Christians of the New Testament and of the early churches—baptism by immersion or dipping" (Kenworthy, History of the Baptist Church at Hill Cliffe, p. 14).

[cbut1]

So we had like 1600 years of disorganized Baptist churches? Hard to imagine. :whistle:


Being that we have long held to our independant ways so as to be harder for our enemies to find us (in the past) for persecutions sake. Yeah I geuss one could say we were disorganized, but in a very deliberate manner. :)

[cbut1]

I think The London Confession was the first Baptist statement of faith so to speak.

So, I guess your right. They weren't organized like the Catholics and their councils like Nicea. The Catholics had councils for 1600 years not the baptist.:whistle:



Yet at each council we or our doctrines (or shall I say the imagination of our doctrines) where the center of attention for those 1600 + years.

[cbut1]

So do they believe in the events of Pentecost being part of todays life?


BTW I think this thread is really great. I am really learning things I never new. Thanks cbut!


I am not sure I know what you are asking. :confused:


I try to have fun with it all the while expressing very serious info.

[cbut1]

OK all caught up again.

I will be ready for round three in a few hours. :D


I have to go pay dues to the winner of last weeks football games. :(

[Displaced]

Yet at each council we or our doctrines (or shall I say the imagination of our doctrines) where the center of attention for those 1600 + years.

This I can agree with. I think it's better to say the doctrines were present at the early councils that to say that Baptist or "ancient Baptist" were present.

Discounting the Baptist of the reformation as nonsense caused me alarm because they were the first to have a confession that stated that their confession was a baptist confession and not a Catholic council. It was a bold move.

It's called the "London Baptist confession of 1644" for a reason.

They were heroic because in doing this they were branded heretics by the Catholic church. Less than a hundred years earlier these nonsense, reformation "ancient Baptist" were being burned for their beliefs.

You may not agree with all the confession, but it's had to argue with the impact they had on our way of life today.

[Displaced]

Sniff test: FAILED

Why are you posting on this thread if you have nothing to add accept pompous sarcasm.:rolleyes:

You haven't had a useful post on this thread yet.

[super cool ski instructor]

:think: We may need to attempt to get this thread back on track.

Here's a question for the Baptists.

Why does every service in a traditional Baptist church have to close with "Just as I Am"?

"Just as I Am" and "Have Thine Own Way"...I miss them. I love traditional hymns....my church leans more towards praise choruses now :rolleyes:

[RayMan]

"Just as I Am" and "Have Thine Own Way"...I miss them. I love traditional hymns....my church leans more towards praise choruses now :rolleyes:

Yeah, yeah. Where's that green bean casserole you were supposed to whip up for us?

[cbut1]

This I can agree with. I think it's better to say the doctrines were present at the early councils that to say that Baptist or "ancient Baptist" were present.

Discounting the Baptist of the reformation as nonsense caused me alarm because they were the first to have a confession that stated that their confession was a baptist confession and not a Catholic council. It was a bold move.

It's called the "London Baptist confession of 1644" for a reason.

They were heroic because in doing this they were branded heretics by the Catholic church. Less than a hundred years earlier these nonsense, reformation "ancient Baptist" were being burned for their beliefs.

You may not agree with all the confession, but it's had to argue with the impact they had on our way of life today.


Bold is mine

Many tend to think that this is when Baptist first existed but as many links I have shown in this thread show we have been around much longer than the Reformation period.

[vir doctus]

Why are you posting on this thread if you have nothing to add accept pompous sarcasm.:rolleyes:

You haven't had a useful post on this thread yet.

I love it when newbs (:eh:) expose themselves.

Your statement fell short, didn't even pass universally accepted Baptist history.

[Displaced]

I love it when newbs (:eh:) expose themselves.

Your statement fell short, didn't even pass universally accepted Baptist history.

Thanks for reinforcing my previous post.

I love it when posters say your wrong and then give the explaination "universally accepted" as the reason:clap:. I can really argue that in a discussion.:)):))

[cbut1]

Thanks for reinforcing my previous post.

I love it when posters say your wrong and then give the explaination "universally accepted" as the reason:clap:. I can really argue that in a discussion.:)):))



Since you are fairly new here a point at which I overlooked and have forgotten my manners.

Welcome to the hannity forums it is nice to see you participate. :D

If you haven't read the Rules of Respect (ROR) then please do so; this is my standard greeting and measure of freindly advice, not an accusation.



Also the Lovely and Gracious Vir is a well informed and battle tested advocate of History, particularly accurate history. If she says it isn't passing the smell test (in other words it stinks) then she is more than likely going to be correct. Now before you think that her views are biased concerning Baptist history then you would be incorrect for she is a DEVOTED LUTHERAN. Baptist History and Lutheran history intersect at points in time, usually at opposite ends of certain matters. Yet she has the integrity and knowledge to affirm that universally accepted claims of Baptist history go further back than just the reformation.

[darknessesedge]

I saw everyone elses so I thought I would jump in and offer answers.


Here is an answer to the question, why is the sky blue? God made it that way. :whistle:

oh yeah?
then answer this
why is a orange orange
but a banana isnt a yellow?
or a apple a red?
:)):))

[Koushi Shinigami]

oh yeah?
then answer this
why is a orange orange
but a banana isnt a yellow?
or a apple a red?
:)):))


That was an episode of a BC comic by Johnny Hart.

[cbut1]

That was an episode of a BC comic by Johnny Hart.



Plagerism. :lol:

[Displaced]

What's the Baptist position on tithing?

Is it still required of a Christian or is that just an old covenant law for Isreal?

[cbut1]

What's the Baptist position on tithing?

Is it still required of a Christian or is that just an old covenant law for Isreal?

Thithing is something that we teach but it is taught largely as a willing offering not a commandment offering. An aspect that is taught more as a commandment teaching in this regard is careing for our pastors and their families. Then again it isn't something that is enforced with any discipinary action if it isn't done. God though will judge wether we do our good stewardship towards what He has given to us (including Pastors) and how we handle it.

[cbut1]

OK all there has got to be more questuons out there for a Baptist to answer.

[CID_0687]

OK all there has got to be more questuons out there for a Baptist to answer.
Pumpkin Pie and Sweet Potato Pie...they claim to be different, I can't tell...what's the secret?

[RayMan]

OK all there has got to be more questuons out there for a Baptist to answer.

Yeah. There are several cans of worms that have yet to be opened. :dance:

Let's talk about communion. Closed communion to be exact. At the Baptist church I was a member of a couple of our pastors (We swapped them out about every 24 months.) had the habit of making a BIG deal out of;

1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

In my opinion they were declaring the opposite of what Paul was teaching. They would basically (from the pulpit) warn any visitors in the congregation that if they were not "a Baptist of like faith and order" they would be violating this portion of Scripture, would come under judgment from God as a result and possibly die on the way out to their car after the service (Alright, I'm exaggerating there.).

My reading of the passage is that Paul is saying they are NOT celebrating the Lord's Supper because the prosperous believers are not being inclusive of those who are less well off. Rather than preaching exclusivity he is commanding inclusivity.

So my question boils down to, "what's the deal with closed communion?"

Thanks

[cbut1]

Pumpkin Pie and Sweet Potato Pie...they claim to be different, I can't tell...what's the secret?


With Pumpkin Pie one uses Cinnimon as its primary spice but with Sweet Potatoe pie one would use All Spice. Which is a compiation of Cinnimon and a few other delicatly balance spices to draw out the natural swewetness from the sweet potatoe.


:think:
Did I mention my mom was a Chef.

[CID_0687]

With Pumpkin Pie one uses Cinnimon as its primary spice but with Sweet Potatoe pie one would use All Spice. Which is a compiation of Cinnimon and a few other delicatly balance spices to draw out the natural swewetness from the sweet potatoe.


:think:
Did I mention my mom was a Chef.
You did not mention that.

Thank you though, that's a question that has kept me up many nights pondering.

[Thank you Troops]

Yes I got a question for Baptists, why do you say thee and thou so much.

[MONGOOSE]

Half a century? :think: Maybe it was a Billy Graham invention.

But seriously, I am going to have to research that, and I'll get back with you on it.

You've brought up another point, about Baptism...I know that many people believe that if you have not been Baptized then you are not saved.
I personally have difficulty with that, to me Baptism is an outward expression of ones inner faith. It's a way, just as confession is, to tell the world I have decided to follow Jesus.

Many people are not physically able to be Baptized, but they can still receive Christ in their lives. Does not being Baptized make them any less of a Christian? I should hope not.

So this is my question, what is the basis of the belief that you MUST be baptized?


I believe in water baptism but I think being baptized by the Holy Spirit is the "baptism that counts."
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Matthew 3:10-12 (in Context) Matthew 3 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 1:8
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Mark 1:7-9 (in Context) Mark 1 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 3:16
John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Luke 3:15-17 (in Context) Luke 3 (Whole Chapter)
John 1:26
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
John 1:25-27 (in Context) John 1 (Whole Chapter)
John 1:33
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
John 1:32-34 (in Context) John 1 (Whole Chapter)
Acts 1:5
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 1:4-6 (in Context) Acts 1 (Whole Chapter)
Acts 11:16
Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Acts 11:15-17 (in Context) Acts 11 (Whole Chapter)

By the way I am Baptist.

[Reeder]

I believe in water baptism but I think being baptized by the Holy Spirit is the "baptism that counts."



Hi Mongoose

A couple of questions. If water baptism "doesn't count," then why is it even mentioned in the Bible (according to you)?

Also, isn't that why Baptists are called "Baptists?" Or does that refer to the "baptism by the Holy Spirit," as you mentioned above?

[cbut1]

Yeah. There are several cans of worms that have yet to be opened. :dance:

Let's talk about communion. Closed communion to be exact. At the Baptist church I was a member of a couple of our pastors (We swapped them out about every 24 months.) had the habit of making a BIG deal out of;

1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

In my opinion they were declaring the opposite of what Paul was teaching. They would basically (from the pulpit) warn any visitors in the congregation that if they were not "a Baptist of like faith and order" they would be violating this portion of Scripture, would come under judgment from God as a result and possibly die on the way out to their car after the service (Alright, I'm exaggerating there.).

My reading of the passage is that Paul is saying they are NOT celebrating the Lord's Supper because the prosperous believers are not being inclusive of those who are less well off. Rather than preaching exclusivity he is commanding inclusivity.

So my question boils down to, "what's the deal with closed communion?"

Thanks


Ok good one.

First there are two things that need to be identified going on in these verses.

1. Is that Paul is speaking to the Assembly/Church/Ekklesia specifically not to anyone outside of it.

1Co 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and I partly believe it.

1Co 11:19 For there must be also factions among you, that they that are approved may be made manifest among you.

1Co 11:20 When therefore ye assemble yourselves together, it is not possible to eat the Lord's supper:

2. There were some within the Assembly whom were in division/contention with another. This was displayed in some ways as the Haves and the Have Nots.

1Co 11:21 for in your eating each one taketh before other his own supper; and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

1Co 11:22 What, have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and put them to shame that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you? In this I praise you not.


Now because they would come together as an assembly they needed to be together completly. Alas some saw their brothers hungry and offered not from their abundance food for him to eat. These are things that cause division and contention within humankind and one whom has claimed Christ is supposed to transcend that division. Therefor because they were not unifiyed in one Spirit they were not fit to partake of the Lords Supper.

Here is what James has to say about answering the needs of your brother.


Jas 2:1 My brethren, hold not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

Jas 2:2 For if there come into your synagogue a man with a gold ring, in fine clothing, and there come in also a poor man in vile clothing;

Jas 2:3 and ye have regard to him that weareth the fine clothing, and say, Sit thou here in a good place; and ye say to the poor man, Stand thou there, or sit under my footstool;

Jas 2:4 Do ye not make distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?

Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren; did not God choose them that are poor as to the world to be rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he promised to them that love him?

Jas 2:6 But ye have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you, and themselves drag you before the judgment-seats?

Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme the honorable name by which ye are called?

Jas 2:8 Howbeit if ye fulfil the royal law, according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:

Jas 2:9 but if ye have respect of persons, ye commit sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors.

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is become guilty of all.

Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou dost not commit adultery, but killest, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as men that are to be judged by a law of liberty.

Jas 2:13 For judgment is without mercy to him that hath showed no mercy: mercy glorieth against judgment.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him?

Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food,

Jas 2:16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit?

James ties in here the need for our faith to be shown and one of those ways it is shown righteously is in actually addressing the needs of our brothers and sisters in Christ. Again all of this is within the assembly the inclusiveness that Paul is speaking of is within the assembly not from outside of it. That inclusiveness is taught at Salvation and then Baptism. One cannot take the Lords Supper if they are not a part of the assembly (saved and baptised faithful member) in Spiritual unity. I cannot partake of a sister assemblies Lord Supper observance because I am not a part of that assembly.

[cbut1]

Yes I got a question for Baptists, why do you say thee and thou so much.

Most of us use the KJV translation and it blends into our conversations. :)

[cbut1]

You did not mention that.

Thank you though, that's a question that has kept me up many nights pondering.



Glad to be of help. :hug:

Now grab a piece of Sweet Potatoe and another of Pumpkin pie slices add Whip Cream on top if you like that stuff with a nice cup of milk and enjoy.

[CID_0687]

Ok good one.

First there are two things that need to be identified going on in these verses.

1. Is that Paul is speaking to the Assembly/Church/Ekklesia specifically not to anyone outside of it.

1Co 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and I partly believe it.

1Co 11:19 For there must be also factions among you, that they that are approved may be made manifest among you.

1Co 11:20 When therefore ye assemble yourselves together, it is not possible to eat the Lord's supper:

2. There were some within the Assembly whom were in division/contention with another. This was displayed in some ways as the Haves and the Have Nots.

1Co 11:21 for in your eating each one taketh before other his own supper; and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

1Co 11:22 What, have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and put them to shame that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you? In this I praise you not.


Now because they would come together as an assembly they needed to be together completly. Alas some saw their brothers hungry and offered not from their abundance food for him to eat. These are things that cause division and contention within humankind and one whom has claimed Christ is supposed to transcend that division. Therefor because they were not unifiyed in one Spirit they were not fit to partake of the Lords Supper.

Here is what James has to say about answering the needs of your brother.


Jas 2:1 My brethren, hold not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

Jas 2:2 For if there come into your synagogue a man with a gold ring, in fine clothing, and there come in also a poor man in vile clothing;

Jas 2:3 and ye have regard to him that weareth the fine clothing, and say, Sit thou here in a good place; and ye say to the poor man, Stand thou there, or sit under my footstool;

Jas 2:4 Do ye not make distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?

Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren; did not God choose them that are poor as to the world to be rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he promised to them that love him?

Jas 2:6 But ye have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you, and themselves drag you before the judgment-seats?

Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme the honorable name by which ye are called?

Jas 2:8 Howbeit if ye fulfil the royal law, according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:

Jas 2:9 but if ye have respect of persons, ye commit sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors.

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is become guilty of all.

Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou dost not commit adultery, but killest, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as men that are to be judged by a law of liberty.

Jas 2:13 For judgment is without mercy to him that hath showed no mercy: mercy glorieth against judgment.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him?

Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food,

Jas 2:16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit?

James ties in here the need for our faith to be shown and one of those ways it is shown righteously is in actually addressing the needs of our brothers and sisters in Christ. Again all of this is within the assembly the inclusiveness that Paul is speaking of is within the assembly not from outside of it. That inclusiveness is taught at Salvation and then Baptism. One cannot take the Lords Supper if they are not a part of the assembly (saved and baptised faithful member) in Spiritual unity. I cannot partake of a sister assemblies Lord Supper observance because I am not a part of that assembly.
So, say you're a member of the First Baptist Church, you couldn't go visit the Second Baptist Church and partake in communion?

I've never heard that before, I just wanted to make sure I'm understanding you correctly.

[cbut1]

Hi Mongoose

A couple of questions. If water baptism "doesn't count," then why is it even mentioned in the Bible (according to you)?

Also, isn't that why Baptists are called "Baptists?" Or does that refer to the "baptism by the Holy Spirit," as you mentioned above?

:)

[cbut1]

So, say you're a member of the First Baptist Church, you couldn't go visit the Second Baptist Church and partake in communion?

I've never heard that before, I just wanted to make sure I'm understanding you correctly.

Correct

As I am not a member of that assembly.

[Reeder]

:)


Got it. Thanks, cbut!

[cbut1]

By the way I am Baptist.

May I enquire as to what form of Baptist do you call home?

[CID_0687]

Correct

As I am not a member of that assembly.
But you are a member of the Body of Christ..which is the same Body that the other church is part of...my view is somewhat different on the matter.

Thanks for the clarification. :)

[Reeder]

Hi, emal

I'm not sure I understand your question, or its relevance to the OP? Are you suggesting that those who disagree with your theology don't understand the Bible?

[CID_0687]

I think this is silly, Im Irish Catholic and unde3rstand the Bible. Why is there divisin and desention?
Because we're human, and as humans our opinions differ on everything...that the best answer I have anyway...Welcome to the forum by the way!

Please take a moment to read the Rules of Respect sticky at the top of the home page for the Religion forum.

[MONGOOSE]

Hi Mongoose

A couple of questions. If water baptism "doesn't count," then why is it even mentioned in the Bible (according to you)?

Also, isn't that why Baptists are called "Baptists?" Or does that refer to the "baptism by the Holy Spirit," as you mentioned above?

I didn't say it "dosen't count" I just think that the spiritual baptism "is where the actual cleaning takes place."
I support water baptism 100%. I'm not trying to discount it.

On the other hand, Jesus did not have to be baptized because he was without sin. He did, I think to validate its practice.

The thief on the cross was not baptized & was promised to be in paradise with Jesus. Since God is not a respecter of persons I would think if one (the thief on the cross) could make it, others could too.

[MONGOOSE]

May I enquire as to what form of Baptist do you call home?

Missionary Baptist

We still baptize in a creek.
I think that my earlier post has been misinterpreted. I was trying to say that I think that just being immersed in water is not good enough.

[cbut1]

But you are a member of the Body of Christ..which is the same Body that the other church is part of...my view is somewhat different on the matter.

Thanks for the clarification. :)

There are some within our work who would be willing to allow a faithful member from a sister assembly partake of the Lords Supper in their assembly. The difficulty is at the time of the obsevance who can run to the phone and clarify if someone is a faithful member. Should they stop their observance and wait, for in the old days runners form city to city. So the responsiblity for proper observance is maintained within each assembly.

[Reeder]

I didn't say it "dosen't count" I just think that the spiritual baptism "is where the actual cleaning takes place."
I support water baptism 100%. I'm not trying to discount it.

On the other hand, Jesus did not have to be baptized because he was without sin. He did, I think to validate its practice.

The thief on the cross was not baptized & was promised to be in paradise with Jesus. Since God is not a respecter of persons I would think if one (the thief on the cross) could make it, others could too.


Very insightful post. Thanks!

[cbut1]

Missionary Baptist

We still baptize in a creek.
I think that my earlier post has been misinterpreted. I was trying to say that I think that just being immersed in water is not good enough.

Got it as am I.

Now first let me welcome you to the Hannity forum, relax and enjoy.

Also if you have not read the Rules of Respect (ROR) in the forum please do so it is at the top of the thread lists. This is not an accusation but my customary greeting with all newbies.

May I also inquire as to where you hang your MB hat. Mine is in Tulare Ca.

[cbut1]

Because we're human, and as humans our opinions differ on everything...that the best answer I have anyway...Welcome to the forum by the way!

Please take a moment to read the Rules of Respect sticky at the top of the home page for the Religion forum.

Thanks for that, I was catching my Brother in Christ up on the same procedure.

[MONGOOSE]

Got it as am I.

Now first let me welcome you to the Hannity forum, relax and enjoy.

Also if you have not read the Rules of Respect (ROR) in the forum please do so it is at the top of the thread lists. This is not an accusation but my customary greeting with all newbies.

May I also inquire as to where you hang your MB hat. Mine is in Tulare Ca.


Smiths Grove, KY
My church & most in my area are very conservative & have histories dating back to the 1700's.

[CID_0687]

Thanks for that, I was catching my Brother in Christ up on the same procedure.
Great minds and all that jazz :D

[cbut1]

Smiths Grove, KY
My church & most in my area are very conservative & have histories dating back to the 1700's.


Yeah I am familiar with some in the Kentucky region, many in your region came out of the Sandy Creek Association back around the War of Independence. Nice to meet ya.

[MONGOOSE]

Yeah I am familiar with some in the Kentucky region, many in your region came out of the Sandy Creek Association back around the War of Independence. Nice to meet ya.

Except for electricity & indoor restrooms, we have tried not to change much.

[CID_0687]

Except for electricity & indoor restrooms, we have tried not to change much.
Indoor restrooms were the downfall of modern society.

I'm from Alabama, so I am within my rights to say this.

[cbut1]

Except for electricity & indoor restrooms, we have tried not to change much.

:lol:

[MONGOOSE]

Indoor restrooms were the downfall of modern society.

I'm from Alabama, so I am within my rights to say this.

Its nice to be able to go without fear of being stung by a wasp, bee or snake or spider bit.

[CID_0687]

Its nice to be able to go without fear of being stung by a wasp, bee or snake or spider bit.
Yeah, I guess it does have it's perks.

But nothing builds character like a midnight trip to the outhouse.

[cbut1]

Indoor restrooms were the downfall of modern society.

I'm from Alabama, so I am within my rights to say this.

Yeah we here in California have gotten into serious fights over cushioned or non cushioned pews, what brand of A/C is the best for our building, does the color of the plush carpet match that of the elegant walls. :dance:

:eh: am I kidding or not :think:

[cbut1]

Mongoose are you a young man in the faith or a man whith a whorry head?

[CID_0687]

Yeah we here in California have gotten into serious fights over cushioned or non cushioned pews, what brand of A/C is the best for our building, does the color of the plush carpet match that of the elegant walls. :dance:

:eh: am I kidding or not :think:
You are so not kidding.

A friend of mine goes to a church that actually split because some members were upset about the color of carpet that was chosen for the sanctuary. Talk about priorities.

[CID_0687]

Mongoose are you a young man in the faith or a man whith a whorry head?
:eek:

[MONGOOSE]

Yeah we here in California have gotten into serious fights over cushioned or non cushioned pews, what brand of A/C is the best for our building, does the color of the plush carpet match that of the elegant walls. :dance:

:eh: am I kidding or not :think:

We've only had indoor plumbing for about 15 years.

[MONGOOSE]

Mongoose are you a young man in the faith or a man whith a whorry head?


33 yrs old, joined the church @ 11 yrs old. So does that make me young & faithful or my head whorry?

[cbut1]

You are so not kidding.

A friend of mine goes to a church that actually split because some members were upset about the color of carpet that was chosen for the sanctuary. Talk about priorities.

:lol:

Fortunatly I have not been through such foolishness but yes I have heard of it in sister assemblies. The thing that is revealed though is a maturity level of those involved so although these things may seem petty, they reveal a very serious issue in ones faith character.

[cbut1]

33 yrs old, joined the church @ 11 yrs old. So does that make me young & faithful or my head whorry?

Well I am 38 so I guess that makes you a youngin. :)

[CID_0687]

:lol:

Fortunatly I have not been through such foolishness but yes I have heard of it in sister assemblies. The thing that is revealed though is a maturity level of those involved so although these things may seem petty, they reveal a very serious issue in ones faith character.
Very true.

[Reeder]

Mongoose are you a young man in the faith or a man whith a whorry head?

:))

[cbut1]

33 yrs old, joined the church @ 11 yrs old. So does that make me young & faithful or my head whorry?

Does the assembly you are in associate in a local association or the ABA or stay as an Independent.

We fellowship in a local state association but also fellowship with many others outside of it.

[MONGOOSE]

I think alot of people don't understand that Baptists aren't like Catholics, there are many differences between Baptists, no 2 churches are the same.

[cbut1]

:))

You and Cid both share reactions that seem to indicate you haven't heard the term before.

:)

[cbut1]

I think alot of people don't understand that Baptists aren't like Catholics, there are many differences between Baptists, no 2 churches are the same.

Yes we have a few things that are absolute in our recognition of each other but as a whole there is many things that make us each distinct within ourselves.

[CID_0687]

You and Cid both share reactions that seem to indicate you haven't heard the term before.

:)
Oh I've heard it before...it's just one of those terms that brings the Beavis out in me...:D

[cbut1]

OK guys I have to get the little guy down for his nap and then finish getting ready for work so have fun and don't try to derail the thread again (Cid, Rayman).

Mongoose don't forget to read the ROR and trust me the people here are friendly and jovial so enjoy and don't bring embarassment to your testimony.

Talk to ya'll later.

[MONGOOSE]

Does the assembly you are in associate in a local association or the ABA or stay as an Independent.

We fellowship in a local state association but also fellowship with many others outside of it.

My church belongs to a local association, The Edmonson Assoc. of Baptists. There are churches all over the state of KY & a few from TN who are members.

[CID_0687]

OK guys I have to get the little guy down for his nap and then finish getting ready for work so have fun and don't try to derail the thread again (Cid, Rayman).

Mongoose don't forget to read the ROR and trust me the people here are friendly and jovial so enjoy and don't bring embarassment to your testimony.

Talk to ya'll later.
I would never try to derail a thread. :shifty:

[Koushi Shinigami]

Read this account of a man who encountered someone attempting suicide...

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said, "Stop! Don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said.
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
He said, "Like what?"
I said, "Well, are you religious or atheist?"
He said, "Religious."
I said, "Me too! Are your Christian or Buddhist?"
He said, "Christian."
I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, Me too! Are your Episcopalian or Baptist?
He said, "Baptist!"
I said, "Wow! Me too! Are your Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?
He said, Baptist Church of God!"
I said, "Me too! Are your Original Baptist Church of God or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God!"
I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915!"
I said, "Die, heretic scum!" and pushed him off.

[RayMan]

Indoor restrooms were the downfall of modern society.

I'm from Alabama, so I am within my rights to say this.

And if you had ever experienced the luxuriousness of an indoor restroom you would change your tune in a heartbeat.

[CID_0687]

Read this account of a man who encountered someone attempting suicide...

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said, "Stop! Don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said.
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
He said, "Like what?"
I said, "Well, are you religious or atheist?"
He said, "Religious."
I said, "Me too! Are your Christian or Buddhist?"
He said, "Christian."
I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, Me too! Are your Episcopalian or Baptist?
He said, "Baptist!"
I said, "Wow! Me too! Are your Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?
He said, Baptist Church of God!"
I said, "Me too! Are your Original Baptist Church of God or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God!"
I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915!"
I said, "Die, heretic scum!" and pushed him off.
:))

[MONGOOSE]

Do you know why Catholics always take at least 2 Baptists fishing? Because if they just take one he'll drink all his beer.

[RayMan]

<snip>
James ties in here the need for our faith to be shown and one of those ways it is shown righteously is in actually addressing the needs of our brothers and sisters in Christ. Again all of this is within the assembly the inclusiveness that Paul is speaking of is within the assembly not from outside of it. That inclusiveness is taught at Salvation and then Baptism. One cannot take the Lords Supper if they are not a part of the assembly (saved and baptised faithful member) in Spiritual unity. I cannot partake of a sister assemblies Lord Supper observance because I am not a part of that assembly.


(Appreciated the first part of you post but want to focus on the area I have difficulty with. )

See that's the part I don't get. Paul says the reason or the cause for them coming under judgment is because they are not discerning one another as all being part of the Lord's body.

1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

If I say, "I will not partake of the Lord's supper with Cbut1 because he is from another assembly," I am in effect saying, "I do not recognize or discern Cbut1 as being part of the Lord's body."

My understanding is that the body of Christ of is the entire body of believers, past, present and future. The undercurrent of Paul's desire for unity and inclusivity in the body of Christ undergirds the entire first epistle to the Corinthians IMO.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?


To me this rhetorical statement is equivalent to asking, "Is one, Baptist, Is on Catholic, is one LDS, is one Pentecostal?"

The assumed answer is both cases is a resounding no, I believe.

This inculsivity within the body of Christ a main them of the book as we see in 1 Cor 12.

1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.

If we keep in mind that there were no verse or chapter divisions in the original Greek text this is like the very next paragraph after Paul is talking to them about discerning the body in partaking of communion. I don't believe their is any legitimate way to divorce the two. He is talking about the same thing. Has just move from using communion as an example of how unity works itself out in real life to the acknowledging of the different gifts and functions in the body of Christ. Is my little church in Moose Jaw Montana THE body of Christ? No, it is a part of the body of Christ and each believer a member in particular.

(derailing, indeed!! :hug:)

[Koushi Shinigami]

I cannot partake of a sister assemblies Lord Supper observance because I am not a part of that assembly.


I think alot of people don't understand that Baptists aren't like Catholics, there are many differences between Baptists, no 2 churches are the same.

:eh: :think: Is this seen as a strength in the Baptist faith?

[Lie Sniper]

Read this account of a man who encountered someone attempting suicide...

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said, "Stop! Don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said.
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
He said, "Like what?"
I said, "Well, are you religious or atheist?"
He said, "Religious."
I said, "Me too! Are your Christian or Buddhist?"
He said, "Christian."
I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, Me too! Are your Episcopalian or Baptist?
He said, "Baptist!"
I said, "Wow! Me too! Are your Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?
He said, Baptist Church of God!"
I said, "Me too! Are your Original Baptist Church of God or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God!"
I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915!"
I said, "Die, heretic scum!" and pushed him off.

:)):)):)):clap::clap:
Koushi, when are you having live tour?

[MONGOOSE]

:eh: :think: Is this seen as a strength in the Baptist faith?

I wouldn't call it a strength or a weakness. We don't have a dioces or any central governing offices. Each church is fairly independent. There are some basic tenents that (should) tie all Baptists together.