Ask a Baptist

[Koushi Shinigami]

Sounds to inconsistent or chaotic for my comfort.

[jet]

Truthfully, I attend a Northern Baptist Conference church. We partake in communion on the first Sunday of every month. The only criteria mentioned by our pastor is the need to believe in Jesus Christ as Lord/Savior and to have accepted Him as Savior. Nothing else. He says if you are unsure as to whether or not you are a Christian, let the elements pass by. Nothing is mentioned about denominations.

So I'm confused..

What else is new. :eh:

[MONGOOSE]

Not all Starbucks are the same either, but the basics are there.

[Reeder]

I wouldn't call it a strength or a weakness. We don't have a dioces or any central governing offices. Each church is fairly independent. There are some basic tenents that (should) tie all Baptists together.

Didn't Christ's original Church include Church government - structure and order? Whats to keep members of the Baptist congregation from drifting off the correct path?

[jet]

Not all Starbucks are the same either, but the basics are there.

But we all know Peet's is better ;)

[MONGOOSE]

Didn't Christ's original Church include Church government - structure and order? Whats to keep members of the Baptist congregation from drifting off the correct path?

Baptist churches have church governments by way of deacons, elders etc...
They do not have one official governing body like the Vatican.

The Bible.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Not all Starbucks are the same either, but the basics are there.


I


DON'T


DO

starbucks!

[MONGOOSE]

I


DON'T


DO

starbucks!

Me neither, insert McDonalds, Wal-Mart whatever chain you wish.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Nope. I'll just recognize that the Baptist store is one I won't be shopping at for a box of salvation.

[Reeder]

Didn't Christ's original Church include Church government - structure and order? Whats to keep members of the Baptist congregation from drifting off the correct path?

Baptist churches have church governments by way of deacons, elders etc...
They do not have one official governing body like the Vatican.

The Bible.

Thanks.

How is this structure established? Who becomes a Deacon, Elder, etc? Is one ordained to such a position (laying on of hands, etc)?

[MONGOOSE]

Thanks.

How is this structure established? Who becomes a Deacon, Elder, etc? Is one ordained to such a position (laying on of hands, etc)?

For a deacon: 1And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.

2Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

3Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

4But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

5And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch

6Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them

There are requirements to be met also, read Timothy.

[MONGOOSE]

Nope. I'll just recognize that the Baptist store is one I won't be shopping at for a box of salvation.

It can't be bought, its free.

Do you think all Lutherin churches are the same? How about Presbyterian? Churches are like people, they all have different personalities.

[Reeder]

For a deacon: There are also certian requirements, read Timothy.

1And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.

2Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

3Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

4But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

5And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch

Am I understanding you correctly that there a seven men chosen? Is this a process which takes place in each congregation? How broad is it? Are these people chosen by the local congregations?

[Koushi Shinigami]

It can't be bought, its free.


Didn't say anything about 'buying' or 'paying' for anything. Did I? Many refer to the process of choosing as 'shoping around'.






Do you think all Lutherin churches are the same? How about Presbyterian? Churches are like people, they all have different personalities.




But some keep a tighter reign on their doctrine and practices. You do, after all, have the WBC which claims to be in your fold. And nothing can be done to refute that claim.

[CID_0687]

Am I understanding you correctly that there a seven men chosen? Is this a process which takes place in each congregation? How broad is it? Are these people chosen by the local congregations?
That's how we roll around here...Hi I'm an Ordained Deacon of the Pentecostal church...but you're wanting the Baptists so I'll go play now.

[MONGOOSE]

Am I understanding you correctly that there a seven men chosen? Is this a process which takes place in each congregation? How broad is it? Are these people chosen by the local congregations?

In the churches I've attended they are chosen by the individual church. My church has a business meeting once a month. Deacons are chosen by the congregation during these. Unless a deacon steps down or is asked to, it is a lifetime position. There have been instances when some churches do not have 7, either they don't have enough qualified canidates or between filling open positions after a death or disqualification.

[Reeder]

In the churches I've attended they are chosen by the individual church. My church has a business meeting once a month. Deacons are chosen by the congregation during these. Unless a deacon steps down or is asked to, it is a lifetime position. There have been instances when some churches do not have 7, either they don't have enough qualified canidates or between filling open positions after a death or disqualification.

Interesting.

How about Elders? Is it the same process?.....same number of Elders?

[MONGOOSE]

Didn't say anything about 'buying' or 'paying' for anything. Did I? Many refer to the process of choosing as 'shoping around'.

You can skip the middle man & shop at the source if you like. It might shock some but I don't think you have to be Baptist to gain salvation. There are things you have to do but to join a Baptist church is not one of them.






But some keep a tighter reign on their doctrine and practices. You do, after all, have the WBC which claims to be in your fold. And nothing can be done to refute that claim.

True. I don't know what WBC is, I don't have cable. I do get ABC & NBC though.

[Reeder]

True. I don't know what WBC is, I don't have cable. I do get ABC & NBC though.

:))

Nice!

[MONGOOSE]

Interesting.

How about Elders? Is it the same process?.....same number of Elders?

Our church doesn't have elders (very small congregation).

Acts 14:23 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain



23And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

[Koushi Shinigami]

True. I don't know what WBC is, I don't have cable. I do get ABC & NBC though.

:))

westboro baptist church. Google that or fred phelps. You'll get the picture.

[MONGOOSE]

:))

westboro baptist church. Google that or fred phelps. You'll get the picture.

Oh yeah, the protestors.

I sell tractors for a living, its kind of like I tell people, "You make 10,000 of anything, there's gonna be some defective ones at some point."

[Reeder]

:))

westboro baptist church. Google that or fred phelps. You'll get the picture.

*Reeder shivers......:sick:

[Reeder]

Oh yeah, the protestors.

I sell tractors for a living, its kind of like I tell people, "You make 10,000 of anything, there's gonna be some defective ones at some point."

:mrgreen:

[jet]

True. I don't know what WBC is, I don't have cable. I do get ABC & NBC though.

That reminds me of a joke.

A young boy is sitting in math class. The teacher calls on him and asks "what are 2, 4, 16, and 64" to which his response was HBO, CNN, Nickalodean, and Cinemax ;)

[Reeder]

That reminds me of a joke.

A young boy is sitting in math class. The teacher calls on him and asks "what are 2, 4, 16, and 64" to which his response was HBO, CNN, Nickalodean, and Cinemax ;)

:)) Its sad, but true. Are there really people who still wonder why ADD is so prevelant these days?

[MONGOOSE]

I really didn't mean to hijack this thread. I just happen to have alot of time on my hands between planting/harvesting seasons.

[RayMan]

But we all know Peet's is better ;)

Says a loyal Californian.

[jet]

:)) Its sad, but true. Are there really people who still wonder why ADD is so prevelant these days?

So true! Nothing that being outside for a few hours a day would cure in most cases.

[jet]

Says a loyal Californian.

I is loyal to Mr. Jet...he is a strong supporter of Peet's ;) But he buys his coffee from Hawaii. He's a strict Kona lover

I don't do coffee, except Coldstone's mixed with heath bar and cookie dough :drool:

[Reeder]

I really didn't mean to hijack this thread. I just happen to have alot of time on my hands between planting/harvesting seasons.

I live in a condo.....just got done "harvesting" two tomato plants and some green onions - does that count? :shifty:

[RayMan]

Am I understanding you correctly that there a seven men chosen? Is this a process which takes place in each congregation? How broad is it? Are these people chosen by the local congregations?

Must Baptist churches I have been associated have a "Congregational" form of church government as opposed to Presbyterian (rule by elders) or Episcopal (rule by bishop).

[MONGOOSE]

So true! Nothing that being outside for a few hours a day would cure in most cases.

Or a swift kick in the pants.

[MONGOOSE]

I live in a condo.....just got done "harvesting" two tomato plants and some green onions - does that count? :shifty:

Sure, let me sell you a $300,000 combine.

[jet]

I live in a condo.....just got done "harvesting" two tomato plants and some green onions - does that count? :shifty:

Did you fry up some of the green tomatoes? Those are so yummy!!!

[Reeder]

Sure, let me sell you a $300,000 combine.

:))

If I could afford a $300,000 combine I wouldn't be living in a condo.

[jet]

Or a swift kick in the pants.

Here, here!


Ok, so here's question: do Baptists support corporal punishment of children?

[MONGOOSE]

:))

If I could afford a $300,000 combine I wouldn't be living in a condo.

Alot of money for a machine used 1 month a year.

[Reeder]

Did you fry up some of the green tomatoes? Those are so yummy!!!

Yes they are! Actually, they ended up being cherry tomatoe's (to our astonishment). :razz:

Have you seen the movie "Fried Green Tomatoes?"

[RayMan]

Interesting.

How about Elders? Is it the same process?.....same number of Elders?

Going strictly by the N.T. Pastor, Elder and Bishop are synonymous terms.

Pastor - (poimon) shepherd - describes the work
Elder - (presbyteros) describes the person
Bishop - (episkopos - overseer) describes the office.

[MONGOOSE]

Here, here!


Ok, so here's question: do Baptists support corporal punishment of children?

This one does, I believe it goes "spare the rod, spoil the child."

[RayMan]

Here, here!


Ok, so here's question: do Baptists support corporal punishment of children?

It is more likely private.

[Reeder]

Alot of money for a machine used 1 month a year.

Indeed. I have always had a PROFOUND respect for the work farmers do. I wouldn't be able to enjoy my Thursday night popcorn during "Kitchen Nightmares" if it wasn't for you folk.

[Reeder]

Going strictly by the N.T. Pastor, Elder and Bishop are synonymous terms.

Pastor - (poimon) shepherd - describes the work
Elder - (presbyteros) describes the person
Bishop - (episkopos - overseer) describes the office.

Ah, thanks, Ray!

But honestly!.....what would a Pentecostal Pope know about any of this? :mrgreen:

[MONGOOSE]

Indeed. I have always had a PROFOUND respect for the work farmers do. I wouldn't be able to enjoy my Thursday night popcorn during "Kitchen Nightmares" if it wasn't for you folk.


Too bad the business is backwards, you buy retail & sell wholesale. Kind of hard to make much money. That's why I'm on the retail side now.

[jet]

Yes they are! Actually, they ended up being cherry tomatoe's (to our astonishment). :razz:

Have you seen the movie "Fried Green Tomatoes?"

That's a bummer!!! Right packet wrong seeds?

I love that movie!! Especially the BBQ scene :shifty:

[Reeder]

Too bad the business is backwards, you buy retail & sell wholesale. Kind of hard to make much money. That's why I'm on the retail side now.

Sad. Especially considering the hard work and long hours that farmers have to put in.

But hey, at least we know professional sports players earn an honest living, right? I mean, without them our country would fall apart. They deserve so much more than farmers! :rolleyes:

[MONGOOSE]

Well its been real & its been fun, in fact its been real fun. 5:00, time to go home. Everyone have a good night.

[RayMan]

Ah, thanks, Ray!

But honestly!.....what would a Pentecostal Pope know about any of this? :mrgreen:

Ten years in a Baptist Church. There everytime the doors were opened, mowed the lawn on Saturday and hung out at the Parsonage.

Next please. :dance:

[Reeder]

That's a bummer!!! Right packet wrong seeds?

No idea. Here's an answer - my wife and I are space cadets. :D


I love that movie!! Especially the BBQ scene :shifty:

Yummy! Can anyone say "Donner Party?" :shifty:

[Reeder]

Well its been real & its been fun, in fact its been real fun. 5:00, time to go home. Everyone have a good night.

Have a good one, Mongoose! Be sure to catch Kitchen Nightmares tonight! :D

[Reeder]

Ten years in a Baptist Church. There everytime the doors were opened, mowed the lawn on Saturday and hung out at the Parsonage.

Next please. :dance:

Hmmmmm.........perhaps we should let the Pentacatholic Church know that their leader is a convert?

[RayMan]

Hmmmmm.........perhaps we should let the Pentacatholic Church know that their leader is a convert?


As Asleep at the Wheel puts it, "I've been everywhere, man..."



(edited for CID)

[CID_0687]

I'm like Hank Williams. "I've been everywhere, man..."
:doh:That's Hank Snow Ray, trust me on this.

[RayMan]

I have edited.

[CID_0687]

I have edited.
:mrgreen:

[vir doctus]

Johnny Cash

[vir doctus]

As Asleep at the Wheel puts it, "I've been everywhere, man..."



(edited for CID)

They sang with Senator Obama.... :whistle:

[RayMan]

They sang with Senator Obama.... :whistle:

Really? Did he go to Austin?

[vir doctus]

Really? Did he go to Austin?

He was in Texas faking hook 'em horns.

[RayMan]

He was in Texas faking hook 'em horns.

Figures. I hadn't ever heard anything about Ray's Benson's (Tall lead singer and guitarist) politics but they came out of the tail end of the hippie counter culture.

First time I saw them was in Berkeley back in '73 opening for New Riders and Commander Cody. Not surprising they would be have a liberal slant but there just ain't no better Western Swing Band in the world!

[vir doctus]

Not surprising they would be have a liberal slant but there just ain't no better Western Swing Band in the world!

I'd say the Texas Playboys, but I don't know much.

[RayMan]

I'd say the Texas Playboys, but I don't know much.


There would be no Ray Benson if Bob Wills hadn't blazed the trail. I probably should have specified Texas Swing Bands which are extant.

[buflineks]

I'd say the Texas Playboys, but I don't know much.

Were Bob Wills is still the King.

[vir doctus]

There would be no Ray Benson if Bob Wills hadn't blazed the trail. I probably should have specified Texas Swing Bands which are extant.

I'm a little slow on bringing my tastes up to the modern world. :shifty:

Bogart is still the greatest actor ever; though, American HERO Jimmy Stewart is giving him a run for his title.

[buflineks]

I'm a little slow on bringing my tastes up to the modern world. :shifty:

Bogart is still the greatest actor ever; though, American HERO Jimmy Stewart is giving him a run for his title.

One of my favorite movie dialogues is between Jimmy Stewart and Henry Fonda in "The Cheyenne Social Club".

(Ref. Stewart;" Harley, I'm going to become a respectable Republican businessman".
Fonda;" But John, I always saw you vote Democrat")

[vir doctus]

"[His voice very hoarse, from his filibuster] Just get up off the ground, that's all I ask. Get up there with that lady that's up on top of this Capitol dome, that lady that stands for liberty. Take a look at this country through her eyes if you really want to see something. And you won't just see scenery; you'll see the whole parade of what Man's carved out for himself, after centuries of fighting. Fighting for something better than just jungle law, fighting so's he can stand on his own two feet, free and decent, like he was created, no matter what his race, color, or creed. That's what you'd see. There's no place out there for graft, or greed, or lies, or compromise with human liberties. And, uh, if that's what the grownups have done with this world that was given to them, then we'd better get those boys' camps started fast and see what the kids can do. And it's not too late, because this country is bigger than the Taylors, or you, or me, or anything else. Great principles don't get lost once they come to light. They're right here; you just have to see them again!" - Jefferson Smith, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington :flag:

[CID_0687]

Were Bob Wills is still the King.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxHu_71sU1E

[RayMan]

"[His voice very hoarse, from his filibuster] Just get up off the ground, that's all I ask. Get up there with that lady that's up on top of this Capitol dome, that lady that stands for liberty. Take a look at this country through her eyes if you really want to see something. And you won't just see scenery; you'll see the whole parade of what Man's carved out for himself, after centuries of fighting. Fighting for something better than just jungle law, fighting so's he can stand on his own two feet, free and decent, like he was created, no matter what his race, color, or creed. That's what you'd see. There's no place out there for graft, or greed, or lies, or compromise with human liberties. And, uh, if that's what the grownups have done with this world that was given to them, then we'd better get those boys' camps started fast and see what the kids can do. And it's not too late, because this country is bigger than the Taylors, or you, or me, or anything else. Great principles don't get lost once they come to light. They're right here; you just have to see them again!" - Jefferson Smith, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington :flag:


Uh, uh...I uh, love Jimmy Stewart. He's a, I mean uh, uh a great actor. And so is his friend, Har....Harvey.

[RayMan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxHu_71sU1E


I like this version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xECNrYxRUA&feature=related

Ronnie Wood can play him some pedal steel.

[vir doctus]

Uh, uh...I uh, love Jimmy Stewart. He's a, I mean uh, uh a great actor. And so is his friend, Har....Harvey.

You remind me of Elwood.

[CID_0687]

I like this version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xECNrYxRUA&feature=related

Ronnie Wood can play him some pedal steel.
Yeah, I played that one after I found Waylon...It's good, but it's hard to top Waylon.

[RayMan]

You remind me of Elwood.

Why, uh, uh, thank you ma'am. Thank you very kindly.

[RayMan]

Yeah, I played that one after I found Waylon...It's good, but it's hard to top Waylon.

Nobody tops Waylon. I just been listening to Mick and the boys since 1963.

First time I heard Waylone he was opening for The New Riders and The Dead at Kezar in Golden Gate Park in 1973. The Outlaw thing was just taking off. Loved him immediately.

Side note. Donna Godchaux was still singing with the Dead at that time. Only time I ever heard them play "You Ain't Woman Enough To Take My Man." Donna was superb as always. Even wore a '70s style Dolly Parton / Porter Wagoner "Nudie Suit" for the occasion.

Donna got saved about 30 years ago after her first husband Keith died. She and her second husband were on the music team at an AoG church in Novato, CA - just about 15 miles from where I live - and for years toured with a Christian band called "Zoe."

Knew everyone would want to know that a Grateful Dead alumni can indeed be saved, just like anyone else.

[vir doctus]

Nobody tops Waylon.
:shifty: Your 'nobody tops' is getting crowded.

[RayMan]

:shifty: Your 'nobody tops' is getting crowded.

I hyperbolize.

Nobody topped (rest in peace, Waylon) Waylon at what he did.

[CID_0687]

Nobody tops Waylon. I just been listening to Mick and the boys since 1963.

First time I heard Waylone he was opening for The New Riders and The Dead at Kezar in Golden Gate Park in 1973. The Outlaw thing was just taking off. Loved him immediately.

Side note. Donna Godchaux was still singing with the Dead at that time. Only time I ever heard them play "You Ain't Woman Enough To Take My Man." Donna was superb as always. Even wore a '70s style Dolly Parton / Porter Wagoner "Nudie Suit" for the occasion.

Donna got saved about 30 years ago after her first husband Keith died. She and her second husband were on the music team at an AoG church in Novato, CA - just about 15 miles from where I live - and for years toured with a Christian band called "Zoe."

Knew everyone would want to know that a Grateful Dead alumni can indeed be saved, just like anyone else.
Sometimes you remind me of my dad and that's scary...Old Man had a story for everything...his were all country music related though.

I think I came out of the womb liking Waylon, he was Dad's favorite singer so on any given night you could hear a Waylon song either on the record player or Dad humming it. IMHO Waylon Jennings was the best country music singer ever...I'll take a couple of hits for that I'm sure, but oh well.

The day that Waylon passed away was one of the few times I ever say Dad cry....amazing how much music can mean to some folks.

Whenever Dad passed away, I did as he requested and sang Waylon's "Ride Me Down Easy Lord" at his funeral.

As you said, no one can top Waylon.


edited to add: cbut1 asked that we not hijack the thread, so let me add I think Waylon was a Baptist. :razz:

[RayMan]

Sometimes you remind me of my dad and that's scary...Old Man had a story for everything...his were all country music related though.

I think I came out of the womb liking Waylon, he was Dad's favorite singer so on any given night you could hear a Waylon song either on the record player or Dad humming it. IMHO Waylon Jennings was the best country music singer ever...I'll take a couple of hits for that I'm sure, but oh well.

The day that Waylon passed away was one of the few times I ever say Dad cry....amazing how much music can mean to some folks.

Whenever Dad passed away, I did as he requested and sang Waylon's "Ride Me Down Easy Lord" at his funeral.

As you said, no one can top Waylon.


edited to add: cbut1 asked that we not hijack the thread, so let me add I think Waylon was a Baptist. :razz:

Absolutely unique. And we could have lost him in February 3,1959 if "The Big Bopper" hadn't taken his seat on Buddy Holly's airplane forcing Waylone to ride on the band bus.

I cried the day I read on the internet that Waylon had to have a leg amputated due to diabetes. I had a feeling that a guy like him couldn't or wouldn't want to live long after that, and he didn't.

[CID_0687]

Absolutely unique. And we could have lost him in February 3,1959 if "The Big Bopper" hadn't taken his seat on Buddy Holly's airplane forcing Waylone to ride on the band bus.

I cried the day I read on the internet that Waylon had to have a leg amputated due to diabetes. I had a feeling that a guy like him couldn't or wouldn't want to live long after that, and he didn't.
Yeah, the "Day the music died" haunted him for years too, I remember watching an interview where Waylon was asked about it and he said that he was joking with Buddy Holly.

Buddy said something like "Well you ain't gonna come with us, fine, I hope your bus breaks down"

Waylon said, "Well I hope your plane crashes."

I guess that would be tough to know you said something like that to one of your best friends and then it happens.

By the way Waylon was Baptist. :shifty:

[RayMan]

Yeah, the "Day the music died" haunted him for year too, I remember watching an interview where Waylon was asked about it and he said that he was joking with Buddy Holly.

Buddy said something like "Well you ain't gonna come with us, fine, I hope your bus breaks down"

Waylon said, "Well I hope your plane crashes."

I guess that would be tough to know you said something like that to one of your best friends and then it happens.

By the way Waylon was Baptist. :shifty:

Or course he was Baptist. What else was he gonna be? Willie could be Pentecostal though.

[CID_0687]

Or course he was Baptist. What else was he gonna be? Willie could be Pentecostal though.
I think I heard Willie is Pentecostal...He's a good one too, gotta be in the mood for him though.

[vir doctus]

I hyperbolize.

Nobody topped (rest in peace, Waylon) Waylon at what he did.

Too bad he didn't sing Folsom Prison Blues - a fine pre-gangsta rap song.

[RayMan]

Too bad he didn't sing Folsom Prison Blues - a fine pre-gangsta rap song.

Oh Yeah. Wife and I have friends who pastor a church in Folsom. When we visit them in summer and drive to the lake, we go right past the prison. Always think of Johnny.

[CID_0687]

Oh Yeah. Wife and I have friends who pastor a church in Folsom. When we visit them in summer and drive to the lake, we go right past the prison. Always think of Johnny.
For the sake of the thread, Johnny was Baptist too. Southern Baptist. :whistle:

[vir doctus]

My favourite modern musician, and quite possibly a Baptist, is Kay Kyser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJFSNTCNjOM&feature=related

[RayMan]

Aw, the Kollege of Musical Knowledge. Too bad video killed the radio stars.

[Snow]

I have a Baptist question...

Is it said that Baptists are not Protestants but that they are the result of some unbroken of contintual, but minority, line preserved down from the time of Christ?

If so, what substantive evidence is there to such an unbroken line?

[cbut1]

Didn't Christ's original Church include Church government - structure and order? Whats to keep members of the Baptist congregation from drifting off the correct path?

Yes there was a structure and polity but it was inclusive of the assembly as a whole. Nothing but their relationship to Christ and a few well timed and accuratly exampled teachings.

[cbut1]

Am I understanding you correctly that there a seven men chosen? Is this a process which takes place in each congregation? How broad is it? Are these people chosen by the local congregations?

In the verses Mongoose offered it was seven men chosen but that is believed to be the case due to the size of the assembly in Jerusalem at that time. Most modern day Baptist assemblies are not thousands strong and therefor do not need a bank of deacons to take care of the physical needs of the assembly. You will customarily find one or two deacons.

It could take place in each congregation (our Church does not have a deacon we have about 60 - 70 people in attendance) and a deacon is usually only recognized as a deacon for that assembly he is a part of.

[cbut1]

Didn't say anything about 'buying' or 'paying' for anything. Did I? Many refer to the process of choosing as 'shoping around'.










But some keep a tighter reign on their doctrine and practices. You do, after all, have the WBC which claims to be in your fold. And nothing can be done to refute that claim.


You are reffering to the Westboro Baptist Church that Phelps is leader of correct?

Yes it can very easily be shown that they are not Baptist they just carry the name on the building. I am a Baptist and I have been in this forum for more than 2 yrs and I have not been sent to the Moderators once. I have upheld Baptist beliefs and practices without denigrating anothers chosen faith in a malicious and beligerant way. I show my Christian attitude by the way I treat others in a loving and compasionate manner (such as I attempted but failed miserably to do for you) :) I have gained the respect and trust of many on these threads even those whom I openly share opposing views with doctrinally. This is the testimony of a True Baptist with which one can compare to those within the WBC.


Gods Word says you will know them by their fruit.

[cbut1]

Must Baptist churches I have been associated have a "Congregational" form of church government as opposed to Presbyterian (rule by elders) or Episcopal (rule by bishop).


Correct

It is democratic in fashion and done following what is known as Roberts Rules of Order. One person offers and idea and makes a motion on it, then another can 2nd that motion, then all can have a say in the overall discussion. In the end the moderator is to give ample time to allow each person to talk it out if they wish but then it is put to a vote and Majority rules. Usually though if there is a minority opinion another motion is quickly offered to make it a unanimous vote which settles all disagreeing and dissent. They have had their say and had their vote now it is time to be mature and move on.

[cbut1]

Here, here!


Ok, so here's question: do Baptists support corporal punishment of children?

If needed yes, but a wise and patient father exhausts all manner of teaching and discipline first.

[cbut1]

"[His voice very hoarse, from his filibuster] Just get up off the ground, that's all I ask. Get up there with that lady that's up on top of this Capitol dome, that lady that stands for liberty. Take a look at this country through her eyes if you really want to see something. And you won't just see scenery; you'll see the whole parade of what Man's carved out for himself, after centuries of fighting. Fighting for something better than just jungle law, fighting so's he can stand on his own two feet, free and decent, like he was created, no matter what his race, color, or creed. That's what you'd see. There's no place out there for graft, or greed, or lies, or compromise with human liberties. And, uh, if that's what the grownups have done with this world that was given to them, then we'd better get those boys' camps started fast and see what the kids can do. And it's not too late, because this country is bigger than the Taylors, or you, or me, or anything else. Great principles don't get lost once they come to light. They're right here; you just have to see them again!" - Jefferson Smith, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington :flag:



Just reading that I could hear his voice with its excitement and hope yet with its shaky tiredness from trying so hard to make things right and coming up short just again. It almost made me cry.

[cbut1]

I have a Baptist question...

Is it said that Baptists are not Protestants but that they are the result of some unbroken of contintual, but minority, line preserved down from the time of Christ?

If so, what substantive evidence is there to such an unbroken line?


I don't think you have the time for me to write it so I will give you a link that I have offered to others before you.

Feel free to read for yourself.

http://www.pbministries.org/History/John%20T.%20Christian/vol1/history_of_the_baptist_vol1.htm

[cbut1]

All caught up again see ya soon for round 4.

[Koushi Shinigami]

You are reffering to the Westboro Baptist Church that Phelps is leader of correct?

Yes. And you show them too much undeserved respect in capitalizing their names.


Yes it can very easily be shown that they are not Baptist they just carry the name on the building. I am a Baptist and I have been in this forum for more than 2 yrs and I have not been sent to the Moderators once. I have upheld Baptist beliefs and practices without denigrating anothers chosen faith in a malicious and beligerant way. I show my Christian attitude by the way I treat others in a loving and compasionate manner (such as I attempted but failed miserably to do for you) :)


Yes, you failed.


I have gained the respect and trust of many on these threads even those whom I openly share opposing views with doctrinally. This is the testimony of a True Baptist with which one can compare to those within the WBC.


Gods Word says you will know them by their fruit.


And in all that, nothing can be done to have them take the good name of your faith off their building. The do meet all the techical requirments to be a Baptist church, so they are a Baptist church.
Are they of God? No.

[5thIDSoldier]

And in all that, nothing can be done to have them take the good name of your faith off their building. The do meet all the techical requirments to be a Baptist church, so they are a Baptist church.
Are they of God? No.

Every religion has it's bad apples in the bunch. Unfortunately for us there is no way to prune them.

I once knew a Pastor who went off the deep end into this type of behavior. The only way the church could get rid of him was to have the entire congregation leave. He was outcast by other Baptist pastors who would have nothing to do with him. He eventually died of cancer.

[RayMan]

Every religion has it's bad apples in the bunch. Unfortunately for us there is no way to prune them.

Yeah. God will eventually take care of that.


Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

[RayMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbut1 <snip>
James ties in here the need for our faith to be shown and one of those ways it is shown righteously is in actually addressing the needs of our brothers and sisters in Christ. Again all of this is within the assembly the inclusiveness that Paul is speaking of is within the assembly not from outside of it. That inclusiveness is taught at Salvation and then Baptism. One cannot take the Lords Supper if they are not a part of the assembly (saved and baptised faithful member) in Spiritual unity. I cannot partake of a sister assemblies Lord Supper observance because I am not a part of that assembly.


(emphasis added - reworking of earlier post)

See that's the part I don't get. Paul says the reason or the cause for them coming under judgment is because they are not discerning one another as all being part of the Lord's body.

1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

If I say, "I will not partake of the Lord's supper with Cbut1 because he is from another assembly," I am in effect saying, "I do not recognize or discern Cbut1 as being part of the Lord's body."

My understanding is that the body of Christ is the entire body of believers, past, present and future. The undercurrent of Paul's desire for unity and inclusivity in the body of Christ undergirds the entire first epistle to the Corinthians IMO.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?


To me this rhetorical statement is equivalent to asking, "Is one, Baptist, Is one Catholic, is one LDS, is one Pentecostal?"

The assumed answer is both cases is a resounding no, I believe.

This inclusivity within the body of Christ is a main theme of the book as we see in 1 Cor 12.

1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.

If we keep in mind that there were no verse or chapter divisions in the original Greek text this is like the very next paragraph after Paul is talking to them about discerning the body in partaking of communion.

I don't believe there is any legitimate way to divorce the two subjects. He is talking about the same thing. Has just moved from using communion as an example of how unity works itself out in real life to the acknowledging of the different gifts and functions in the body of Christ. Is my little church in Moose Jaw Montana THE body of Christ? No, it is a part of the body of Christ and each believer a member in particular.


__________________

[MONGOOSE]

Quote:



(emphasis added - reworking of earlier post)

See that's the part I don't get. Paul says the reason or the cause for them coming under judgment is because they are not discerning one another as all being part of the Lord's body.

1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

If I say, "I will not partake of the Lord's supper with Cbut1 because he is from another assembly," I am in effect saying, "I do not recognize or discern Cbut1 as being part of the Lord's body."

My understanding is that the body of Christ is the entire body of believers, past, present and future. The undercurrent of Paul's desire for unity and inclusivity in the body of Christ undergirds the entire first epistle to the Corinthians IMO.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?


To me this rhetorical statement is equivalent to asking, "Is one, Baptist, Is one Catholic, is one LDS, is one Pentecostal?"

The assumed answer is both cases is a resounding no, I believe.

This inclusivity within the body of Christ is a main theme of the book as we see in 1 Cor 12.

1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.

If we keep in mind that there were no verse or chapter divisions in the original Greek text this is like the very next paragraph after Paul is talking to them about discerning the body in partaking of communion.

I don't believe there is any legitimate way to divorce the two subjects. He is talking about the same thing. Has just moved from using communion as an example of how unity works itself out in real life to the acknowledging of the different gifts and functions in the body of Christ. Is my little church in Moose Jaw Montana THE body of Christ? No, it is a part of the body of Christ and each believer a member in particular.


__________________


My opinion is he is referring to non-believers. Communion should be taken seriously, if you are an unbeliever you would not fully recognize what you are doing & what it represents.

Judge not lest ye be judged, yet by their fruits ye shall know them. Not all that say "Lord, Lord" shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.
For if your name is not written in the Book of Life, He will say, depart from Me, I never knew ye that work iniquity. (to paraphrase)


Which brings up another question. Is it up to each denomination, each individual church or each member to discern if one is fit to take of communion?

[Koushi Shinigami]

Every religion has it's bad apples in the bunch. Unfortunately for us there is no way to prune them.

Definitely not a strength.


I once knew a Pastor who went off the deep end into this type of behavior. The only way the church could get rid of him was to have the entire congregation leave. He was outcast by other Baptist pastors who would have nothing to do with him. He eventually died of cancer.

Too bad for those he drove away from God. Isn't it?

[RayMan]

My opinion is he is referring to non-believers. Communion should be taken seriously, if you are an unbeliever you would not fully recognize what you are doing & what it represents.

Judge not lest ye be judged, yet by their fruits ye shall know them. Not all that say "Lord, Lord" shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.
For if your name is not written in the Book of Life, He will say, depart from Me, I never knew ye that work iniquity. (to paraphrase)


Which brings up another question. Is it up to each denomination, each individual church or each member to discern if one is fit to take of communion?

Will have to respectfully disagree. There is absolutely no way he is referring to unbelievers. He is directly addressing the Church as the body of Christ and the rich snobs in the Church in particular.

On the discernment question - it is up to the individual believer, no one else. Although some folk in leadership take it upon themselves to sit in judgment as to another person's worthiness to receive communion.



1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

[MONGOOSE]

Will have to respectfully disagree. There is absolutely no way he is referring to unbelievers. He is directly addressing the Church as the body of Christ and the rich snobs in the Church in particular.

On the discernment question - it is up to the individual believer, no one else. Although some folk in leadership take it upon themselves to sit in judgment as to another person's worthiness to receive communion.



1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.



I agree with you that it is up to each individual. I personally have no qualms with other denominations taking communion outside their own.

[Jonnin]

OK, I got one.

I know that the Baptists have no direct ties to the Catholic church like many of the other denominations do...but if the Catholic church was the original church then where do Baptists come in? There has to be a tie to Catholicism some place right?


Martin Luther & Calvin sat down & read the Bible (independantly I think). In doing so, they came to the conclusion that much of catholicism is not actually in there (praying to mary instead of directly is a big one, purgatory is another, sainthood is a third, there are *hundreds* of differences). So the quick answer is that baptists are decended from the teachings of these two men, more Luther than calvin but I believe the modern baptists use a bit of both or a merger of the two. Very little of catholicism remained in the resulting belief structure (which covers the religions lumped under the "protestent" hat, including baptists, presbyterians, church of god, pentecostal, and many more).

This is a little vague as it has been an age since I studied the Luther/Calvin origins (a lot has been added over the centuries), but you can look this up by wikipedia on martin luther, which surely has a link to calvin as well (I cannot remember his first name).

That was a (poor) attempt at history only, not express any of my own opinions.

[cbut1]

Martin Luther & Calvin sat down & read the Bible (independantly I think). In doing so, they came to the conclusion that much of catholicism is not actually in there (praying to mary instead of directly is a big one, purgatory is another, sainthood is a third, there are *hundreds* of differences). So the quick answer is that baptists are decended from the teachings of these two men, more Luther than calvin but I believe the modern baptists use a bit of both or a merger of the two. Very little of catholicism remained in the resulting belief structure (which covers the religions lumped under the "protestent" hat, including baptists, presbyterians, church of god, pentecostal, and many more).

This is a little vague as it has been an age since I studied the Luther/Calvin origins (a lot has been added over the centuries), but you can look this up by wikipedia on martin luther, which surely has a link to calvin as well (I cannot remember his first name).

That was a (poor) attempt at history only, not express any of my own opinions.


Bolded portion is mine

Yes it was a poor attempt.

Since you are a newbie welcome to the Hannity boards. :)

Please remember to read the Rules of Respect (ROR) that is the first thread on the threads tital page.

[cbut1]

Quote:



(emphasis added - reworking of earlier post)

See that's the part I don't get. Paul says the reason or the cause for them coming under judgment is because they are not discerning one another as all being part of the Lord's body.

1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

If I say, "I will not partake of the Lord's supper with Cbut1 because he is from another assembly," I am in effect saying, "I do not recognize or discern Cbut1 as being part of the Lord's body."

My understanding is that the body of Christ is the entire body of believers, past, present and future. The undercurrent of Paul's desire for unity and inclusivity in the body of Christ undergirds the entire first epistle to the Corinthians IMO.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?


To me this rhetorical statement is equivalent to asking, "Is one, Baptist, Is one Catholic, is one LDS, is one Pentecostal?"

The assumed answer is both cases is a resounding no, I believe.

This inclusivity within the body of Christ is a main theme of the book as we see in 1 Cor 12.

1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.

If we keep in mind that there were no verse or chapter divisions in the original Greek text this is like the very next paragraph after Paul is talking to them about discerning the body in partaking of communion.

I don't believe there is any legitimate way to divorce the two subjects. He is talking about the same thing. Has just moved from using communion as an example of how unity works itself out in real life to the acknowledging of the different gifts and functions in the body of Christ. Is my little church in Moose Jaw Montana THE body of Christ? No, it is a part of the body of Christ and each believer a member in particular.


__________________


I have not forgotten this post Rayman, you have accomplished something that few have been able to accomplish for me, I have to completly restudy this! :think:

You make some solid points and I would not be the man of integrity that I strive to be if I ignored those points without giving them proper study, so be patient and I will address this further than I have already.

[cbut1]

Definitely not a strength.




Too bad for those he drove away from God. Isn't it?


Yes it is to bad.

Koushi are you in this thread to participate or to be a burr of contention? :neutral:

[RayMan]

I have not forgotten this post Rayman, you have accomplished something that few have been able to accomplish for me, I have to completly restudy this! :think:

You make some solid points and I would not be the man of integrity that I strive to be if I ignored those points without giving them proper study, so be patient and I will address this further than I have already.

Thanks. I looked at my original post and it was so full of typos and misspellings that I thought I was plagiarizing buf. So I cleaned it up to make it readable.

HAPPY FRIDAY EVERYBODY!!

[buflineks]

[quote=RayMan;35561891]Thanks. I looked at my original post and it was so full of typos and misspellings that I thought I was plagiarizing buf. [quote]

Just be sure to properly cite me as the source, and there will be no problem.:lol:

[RayMan]

[quote=RayMan;35561891]Thanks. I looked at my original post and it was so full of typos and misspellings that I thought I was plagiarizing buf. [quote]

Just be sure to properly cite me as the source, and there will be no problem.:lol:

I will post a link to your Wikipedia page.

[Displaced]

Martin Luther & Calvin sat down & read the Bible (independantly I think). In doing so, they came to the conclusion that much of catholicism is not actually in there (praying to mary instead of directly is a big one, purgatory is another, sainthood is a third, there are *hundreds* of differences). So the quick answer is that baptists are decended from the teachings of these two men, more Luther than calvin but I believe the modern baptists use a bit of both or a merger of the two. Very little of catholicism remained in the resulting belief structure (which covers the religions lumped under the "protestent" hat, including baptists, presbyterians, church of god, pentecostal, and many more).


This is a little vague as it has been an age since I studied the Luther/Calvin origins (a lot has been added over the centuries), but you can look this up by wikipedia on martin luther, which surely has a link to calvin as well (I cannot remember his first name).

That was a (poor) attempt at history only, not express any of my own opinions.

Hello and Welcome,

Be careful with who were the first Baptist. I have already tried to discuss it on this thread. The Baptist doctrines have always been there, but..... well as you can see Baptist get a little "testy" about the rest of it.:lol:

Google Baptist and decide for youself.

[cbut1]

What is up with the quote buttons not working correctly?

[CID_0687]

What is up with the quote buttons not working correctly?
Some of Ski's green bean casserole got up under the button...we've gotten it cleaned up now though. :D

[Lie Sniper]

[QUOTE=Jonnin;35559241](I cannot remember his first name).
QUOTE]

John. :)

Glad I could help!

[Displaced]

We have been called many names through the centuries but the main reason is because of following the Biblical example of Baptism.

Complete Immersion of a willing (meaning a person whom confesses Christ as their Lord and savior) candidate by the authority of the Church into the Body of Christ.

LOL, Lighten up Cbut1 it's Friday!

Seems to work for me.:mrgreen:

[cbut1]

Hello and Welcome,

Be careful with who were the first Baptist. I have already tried to discuss it on this thread. The Baptist doctrines have always been there, but..... well as you can see Baptist get a little "testy" about the rest of it.:lol:

Google Baptist and decide for youself.

Bolding is mine

If you look back at what you first offered you left it open to the idea that the London confession was the first anyone had heard of Baptist teachings. That my friend is what I was challenging you on. As you show here in this post you make it clear that Baptist teachings have been an ever present thing, that is good to see. (not that I am saying you agree with them all but that you acknowledge these are what we believe)

:D

[cbut1]

I found this one on Wiki and it is a fair understanding of our main distinctives.
I don't overall recommend someone rely on Wiki for truth but it can represent a measure of accuracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptist_Distinctives

[Thank you Troops]

Yes I have a question for Baptists. Can you get to Heaven without standing in a buffet line?

[5thIDSoldier]

Definitely not a strength.

This is one thing I wish we could do, but alas, God is the final judge. Im sure you wouldnt want to be judged by imperfect men for your actions either.


Too bad for those he drove away from God. Isn't it?

He didnt drive them away from God, simply to other Baptist congregations.

[MONGOOSE]

Yes I have a question for Baptists. Can you get to Heaven without standing in a buffet line?



As long as you are 1st to the buffet, you don't have to stand in line.

[Displaced]

Bolding is mine

If you look back at what you first offered you left it open to the idea that the London confession was the first anyone had heard of Baptist teachings. That my friend is what I was challenging you on. As you show here in this post you make it clear that Baptist teachings have been an ever present thing, that is good to see. (not that I am saying you agree with them all but that you acknowledge these are what we believe)

:D

Hee Hee,

I always thought that. We been fussin about nothin'!

Alot can be said for clarity.

Did you know that Peter and Paul were Baptist in doctrine? Just don't go and tell everyone else. It'll cause an uproar.:dance:

[CID_0687]

Hee Hee,

I always thought that. We been fussin about nothin'!

Alot can be said for clarity.

Did you know that Peter and Paul were Baptist in doctrine? Just don't go and tell everyone else. It'll cause an uproar.:dance:
:snooty: Paul was Pentecostal

[Thank you Troops]

As long as you are 1st to the buffet, you don't have to stand in line.


:))

[Reeder]

:snooty: Paul was Pentecostal

Paul was the first Pentecostal Pope - PPP.

[CID_0687]

Paul was the first Pentecostal Pope - PPP.
:lol:

[RayMan]

Yes I have a question for Baptists. Can you get to Heaven without standing in a buffet line?

As long as you don't die at noon on Sunday, sure.

[RayMan]

:snooty: Paul was Pentecostal

So were the Ephesian Baptists (Acts 19) when he got through with them.
:hug:

It's Friday everybody! Group hug!

[CID_0687]

So were the Ephesian Baptists (Acts 19) when he got through with them.
:hug:

It's Friday everybody! Group hug!
:dance: :))

[vir doctus]

Martin Luther & Calvin sat down & read the Bible (independantly I think). In doing so, they came to the conclusion that much of catholicism is not actually in there (praying to mary instead of directly is a big one, purgatory is another, sainthood is a third, there are *hundreds* of differences). So the quick answer is that baptists are decended from the teachings of these two men, more Luther than calvin but I believe the modern baptists use a bit of both or a merger of the two. Very little of catholicism remained in the resulting belief structure (which covers the religions lumped under the "protestent" hat, including baptists, presbyterians, church of god, pentecostal, and many more).


Luther was not original in his ideas. As for the rest of your post, please go back to the history books.

[RayMan]

Bump because it's an informative thread. Even though CID does hijack it every twelve hours or so.

Just sayin. ©

[CID_0687]

I'm not the one that gets reported for hijacking

just sayin' :razz:

[Koushi Shinigami]

Yes it is to bad.

Koushi are you in this thread to participate or to be a burr of contention? :neutral:


Just being me. :razz:

My personal experience dealing with Baptists has never been good, rewarding or a blessed by God experience.

Probably the worst for me was a local Baptist deacon in our town who picked up HPV from a Phillipino prostitute. He then knowingly spread it amongst some of the good women of our town. Probably gave it to all of his wives too. One of those fine ladies was a close personal friend of mine. In case you were unaware, HPV can cause cervical cancer in women. Through his actions, he might be responsible for the deaths of more than one woman. When I confronted him on it and asked him how he felt God would feel about his actions, he fell back on the Eternal Salvation dogma. Since he was 'saved' he wasn't worried about God's judgement. A fine man there. :rolleyes:

[buflineks]

I'm not the one that gets reported for hijacking

just sayin' :razz:

That's because when you ask for $50 and a bus to Cuba, no one takes you seriously.:whistle:

[Koushi Shinigami]

This is one thing I wish we could do, but alas, God is the final judge. Im sure you wouldnt want to be judged by imperfect men for your actions either.




Being cut off or kicked out of the Baptist faith would not necessarily carry any weight in their Heavenly judgement. Would it? And were you (Baptists in general) able to do so, it would protect your good name from being tarnished by such as phelps. Might even help bring people to God if non-members didn't associate the wbc with the Baptist church.

[CID_0687]

That's because when you ask for $50 and a bus to Cuba, no one takes you seriously.:whistle:
:)) Can't say that I blame 'em either

[THE LIGHT]

I am not sure I know what you are asking. :confused:


I try to have fun with it all the while expressing very serious info.

I meant, do they believe in the power of the Holy Spirit?

[Tucson Jim]

Just being me. :razz:

My personal experience dealing with Baptists has never been good, rewarding or a blessed by God experience.

Probably the worst for me was a local Baptist deacon in our town who picked up HPV from a Phillipino prostitute. He then knowingly spread it amongst some of the good women of our town. Probably gave it to all of his wives too. One of those fine ladies was a close personal friend of mine. In case you were unaware, HPV can cause cervical cancer in women. Through his actions, he might be responsible for the deaths of more than one woman. When I confronted him on it and asked him how he felt God would feel about his actions, he fell back on the Eternal Salvation dogma. Since he was 'saved' he wasn't worried about God's judgement. A fine man there. :rolleyes:

I bet you made up that whole story. C'mon. fess up, it's a joke, right?

[Koushi Shinigami]

I bet you made up that whole story. C'mon. fess up, it's a joke, right?

Are you calling me a liar?


No. It's not a joke, it's not made up.

[Tucson Jim]

Are you calling me a liar?

No, I'm merely saying your story is so outlandish, it is difficult to believe.

Do you have firsthand knowledge of the events you describe? Or is this just gossip from your girl friend?

His "wives"??

Come on!


No. It's not a joke, it's not made up.

Oh . . .

[Koushi Shinigami]

No, I'm merely saying your story is so outlandish, it is difficult to believe.

Yes, it is. Yet you believe a man, conceived of God, born of a virgin, died and came back to life 3 days later. Who's story is less outlandish?



Do you have firsthand knowledge of the events you describe?


Yes.



Or is this just gossip from your girl friend?


No. And the lady in question is not my girl friend. She is a close friend of mine that I grew up with. "Girl friend" implies something improper that does not exist.



His "wives"??

Come on!


I didn't say at the same time. Death, divorce and remarriage are involved in the story.




Oh . . .

Yeah. 'Oh'.

[RayMan]

I'm not the one that gets reported for hijacking

just sayin' :razz:

You call that a retort, you English pig-dog? I laugh sarcastically at your retort.

[Tucson Jim]

Yes, it is. Yet you believe a man, conceived of God, born of a virgin, died and came back to life 3 days later. Who's story is less outlandish?

Gee, I guess ya got me there . . . your story about a Baptist preacher running wild spreading STDs all over town is more believable than the Bible!!


Yes.

How could you have firsthand knowledge, unless . . . omigosh! :eek:

Are you one of the girls that got HPV? If so, then I totally believe your story!!


No. And the lady in question is not my girl friend. She is a close friend of mine that I grew up with. "Girl friend" implies something improper that does not exist.

No such implication implied.

I was careful to say "girl friend" NOT "girlfriend". To me there's a HUGE difference.


I didn't say at the same time. Death, divorce and remarriage are involved in the story.


Thank you for clarifying that.

Yeah. 'Oh'.

:razz:

Hey Koushi, at this rate, do you think we're gonna be good friends, or just sparring partners?

[Semi-Sweet]

(snip)

Hey Koushi, at this rate, do you think we're gonna be good friends, or just sparring partners?

You two are not friends only with those who agree with you are you? If so. . . . . .how boring! :))

[RayMan]

You two are not friends only with those who agree with you are you? If so. . . . . .how boring! :))

A couple of real fungi. Sorry, I meant fun guys.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Gee, I guess ya got me there . . . your story about a Baptist preacher running wild spreading STDs all over town is more believable than the Bible!!


Whatever. :rolleyes:



How could you have firsthand knowledge, unless . . . omigosh! :eek:

Are you one of the girls that got HPV? If so, then I totally believe your story!!


The deacon, (not preacher, you said that) told me himself about his conquest. Mentioned there might be a few blue-eyed Phillipino kids running around there now. Seemed pretty proud of himself.

The rest I learned when I had to comfort a very good friend and mother of two when she found out she might be carrying a virus that could give her a disease that would kill her before her kids are grown. Seeing the scincerity and fear in her eyes raised it a bit above the level of 'gossip', ya know? Not really something I joke about.


:razz:

Hey Koushi, at this rate, do you think we're gonna be good friends, or just sparring partners?

Don't know.

[Tucson Jim]

<snip>


The deacon, (not preacher, you said that) told me himself about his conquest. Mentioned there might be a few blue-eyed Phillipino kids running around there now. Seemed pretty proud of himself.

OK, now we're getting somewhere. Do you think there is a possibility the deacon may have simply been tryimng to impress you with his supposed "conquests"? It happens all the time you know.

Not saying he didn't do it - just saying there is, at the very least, doubt .

The rest I learned when I had to comfort a very good friend and mother of two when she found out she might be carrying a virus that could give her a disease that would kill her before her kids are grown. Seeing the scincerity and fear in her eyes raised it a bit above the level of 'gossip', ya know? Not really something I joke about.

Ok - but you do joke and razz a lot - this story seemed to fit. But you insist you are not, so I accept that.

But you said the girl found out she "might" be carrying the virus. At most, this is an admission by one girl that she had relations with the deacon, heard he had a STD and was worried about it.

Not very good evidence for alleging mass STD spreading by a member of a particular faith. Is it? Be objective now . . .

Don't know.

I'm betting . . . good friends! :hug:

[vir doctus]

No, I'm merely saying your story is so outlandish, it is difficult to believe.

Do you have firsthand knowledge of the events you describe? Or is this just gossip from your girl friend?

His "wives"??

Come on!




Oh . . .

I am a little in awe that you find the story so incredible. :confused:

[Semi-Sweet]

Whatever. :rolleyes:






The deacon, (not preacher, you said that) told me himself about his conquest. Mentioned there might be a few blue-eyed Phillipino kids running around there now. Seemed pretty proud of himself.

The rest I learned when I had to comfort a very good friend and mother of two when she found out she might be carrying a virus that could give her a disease that would kill her before her kids are grown. Seeing the scincerity and fear in her eyes raised it a bit above the level of 'gossip', ya know? Not really something I joke about.




Don't know.

I believe your story.

[Koushi Shinigami]

OK, now we're getting somewhere. Do you think there is a possibility the deacon may have simply been tryimng to impress you with his supposed "conquests"? It happens all the time you know.

Not saying he didn't do it - just saying there is, at the very least, doubt .


I know the man well. I believe him.



Ok - but you do joke and razz a lot - this story seemed to fit. But you insist you are not, so I accept that.


Think these events might have a tiny bit to do with my irreverence?

But you said the girl found out she "might" be carrying the virus. At most, this is an admission by one girl that she had relations with the deacon, heard he had a STD and was worried about it.

Not very good evidence for alleging mass STD spreading by a member of a particular faith. Is it? Be objective now . . .

Alright, let me explain. She HAS the HPV. There are multiple strains of HPV. Not all cause cancer. What she doesn't know is if the virus she has is the one that could kill her. He knew he had it when he slept with her. He had visible signs of it.



I'm betting . . . good friends! :hug:

Ok.

[Koushi Shinigami]

I believe your story.

Thankyou. :hug:

[Tucson Jim]

I am a little in awe that you find the story so incredible. :confused:

I've known quite a few Baptists. Good folks, most.

[RayMan]

I've known quite a few Baptists. Good folks, most.

Splendid folk. And good cooks for the most part. Way too much emphasis on green bean casserole though, IMO.

[Tucson Jim]

I know the man well. I believe him.

OK. But you have to admit, men are notorious for telling tales on this topic.


Think these events might have a tiny bit to do with my irreverence?

I don't know - but if you are irreverent because people of faith sin, I think that's kind of a slim reason.

But maybe you have other reasons . . .


Alright, let me explain. She HAS the HPV. There are multiple strains of HPV. Not all cause cancer. What she doesn't know is if the virus she has is the one that could kill her. He knew he had it when he slept with her. He had visible signs of it.

He sounds like he was a pretty big jerk then.

[Tucson Jim]

Splendid folk. And good cooks for the most part. Way too much emphasis on green bean casserole though, IMO.

:))

[CID_0687]

You call that a retort, you English pig-dog? I laugh sarcastically at your retort.
English pig-dog? Geez Ray, you been drinkin' tonight? If so stop, it makes you more bitter than you already are.

What the heck's an English pig-dog any way..I've seen British Bulldogs is it anything like that?

[RayMan]

English pig-dog? Geez Ray, you been drinkin' tonight? If so stop, it makes you more bitter than you already are.

What the heck's an English pig-dog any way..I've seen British Bulldogs is it anything like that?

Was hoping to draw Koushi in with a Monty Python reference. Didn't work. I may have had a Bud light.

[CID_0687]

Was hoping to draw Koushi in with a Monty Python reference. Didn't work. I may have had a Bud light.
Ahh...gotcha, that one flew over my head.

[RayMan]

Ahh...gotcha, that one flew over my head.


Saracen dog.

[CID_0687]

Question:

Why do Baptists always have 40 Visitors Parking Spots, yet there are only 10 that are ever full...and they won't let anyone else have them...parking lot ministry is adamant about it.

[cbut1]

I meant, do they believe in the power of the Holy Spirit?

Certainly we do.

[cbut1]

Question:

Why do Baptists always have 40 Visitors Parking Spots, yet there are only 10 that are ever full...and they won't let anyone else have them...parking lot ministry is adamant about it.



If it wasn't a sin I would be envious of such a large parking lot in the first place. :D

[cbut1]

Koushi

You and Tucson took this thread in a somewhat weird way tonight.

Anyway when the assembly was informed of their deacons actions what was done about it?

If in our assembly it was discovered that one was behaving in a similar manner, he would be dealt with in a very stern and rapid manner. If it was a public offense as you discribe then it would be handled in a fairly public way also. He would certainly no longer be a deacon, that tital would be removed from him in a very public way.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Koushi

You and Tucson took this thread in a somewhat weird way tonight.

Anyway when the assembly was informed of their deacons actions what was done about it?

If in our assembly it was discovered that one was behaving in a similar manner, he would be dealt with in a very stern and rapid manner. If it was a public offense as you discribe then it would be handled in a fairly public way also. He would certainly no longer be a deacon, that tital would be removed from him in a very public way.


He is still a deacon. Maybe he said "Sorry". :rolleyes:

[Koushi Shinigami]

I don't know - but if you are irreverent because people of faith sin, I think that's kind of a slim reason.

But maybe you have other reasons . . .





Being that I'm a sinfull, irrational, and fallible human being, it's reason enough.

One of the other reasons would be 'people of faith' telling me how riteous they are, and it turning out that the only time it was safe to take my hand off my wallet was the 3 times a week they were in a church.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Was hoping to draw Koushi in with a Monty Python reference. Didn't work. I may have had a Bud light.



I fart in your general direction. :razz:



Sorry, just didn't seem to be in the mood for it last night.

[37818]

I saw everyone elses so I thought I would jump in and offer answers.


Here is an answer to the question, why is the sky blue? God made it that way. :whistle:

It is a baptist opinion the label "Baptist" doesn't make one a Christian any more than a "bean" label will make a can of sour cabbage into beans.

[RayMan]

I fart in your general direction. :razz:



Sorry, just didn't seem to be in the mood for it last night.

You did seem to be a bit preoccupied. Feeling better?

[cbut1]

He is still a deacon. Maybe he said "Sorry". :rolleyes:


Then that assembly is seemingly chosing to ignore the qualifications of a deacon to their own detriment.


1Ti 3:2 The bishop therefore must be without reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, orderly, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1Ti 3:3 no brawler, no striker; but gentle, not contentious, no lover of money;

1Ti 3:4 one that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

1Ti 3:5 (but if a man knoweth not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

1Ti 3:6 not a novice, lest being puffed up he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have good testimony from them that are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.


1Ti 3:8 Deacons in like manner must be grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

1Ti 3:9 holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

1Ti 3:10 And let these also first be proved; then let them serve as deacons, if they be blameless.

1Ti 3:11 Women in like manner must be grave, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.

1Ti 3:12 Let deacons be husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

1Ti 3:13 For they that have served well as deacons gain to themselves a good standing, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[RayMan]

Mornin' Cbut1,
You just gettin' in from work?

[cbut1]

Mornin' Cbut1,
You just gettin' in from work?

No I had to get up early today so that I could take my son to get ready for the youth rally our assembly is holding today.

I will be back really late toight because of both the rally and work after so have fun and rely on your Baptist knowledge to help the thread along.

P.S. since it is a youth rally that our youth is hosting there will be NO Green Bean casseroles it is a Pizza party with a lot of sugar afterwards.



I know it is almost heretical but hey we are a wild bunch here. :))

[RayMan]

No I had to get up early today so that i could take my son to get ready for the yuoth rally our assembly is holding today.

I will be back really late toight because of both the rally and work after so have fun and rely on your Baptist knowledge to help the thread along.

P.S. since it is a youth rally that our youth is hosting there will be NO Green Bean casseroles it is a Pizza party with a lot of sugar afterwards.



I know it is almost heretical but hey we are a wild bunch here. :))


Pizza, sugar and kids...My condolences.

Have a great day!

Will try and rein CID in. :)

[buflineks]

Will try and rein CID in. :)

psst.......all youhave do is put $50 on paypal and arrange a bus to Cuba for him.:shhh::shifty::mrgreen:

[RayMan]

psst.......all youhave do is put $50 on paypal and arrange a bus to Cuba for him.:shhh::shifty::mrgreen:

Will file that thought as a last resort. Thanks.

[cbut1]

psst.......all youhave do is put $50 on paypal and arrange a bus to Cuba for him.:shhh::shifty::mrgreen:



:) make sure it is the scenic route. :))

[RayMan]

CID is heading to Florida tomorrow. Just need a good back story to get him on the bus. Little help?

[CID_0687]

So I've been thinking about this bus to Cuba, and it could be possible...If you hit Highway 1 in Homestead and floor it all the way to Key West and don't let up..maybe just maybe you could make it to Cuba. :shifty:

[cbut1]

Let us know how it went when you get there. :))

[cbut1]

Quote:



(emphasis added - reworking of earlier post)

See that's the part I don't get. Paul says the reason or the cause for them coming under judgment is because they are not discerning one another as all being part of the Lord's body.

1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

If I say, "I will not partake of the Lord's supper with Cbut1 because he is from another assembly," I am in effect saying, "I do not recognize or discern Cbut1 as being part of the Lord's body."

My understanding is that the body of Christ is the entire body of believers, past, present and future. The undercurrent of Paul's desire for unity and inclusivity in the body of Christ undergirds the entire first epistle to the Corinthians IMO.


This inclusivity within the body of Christ is a main theme of the book as we see in 1 Cor 12.

1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.


Ok continuing on with your thoughts here and shortening it so that we keep on track, I have some contemplations to offer.

1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.

1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; it is not therefore not of the body.

1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; it is not therefore not of the body.

1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

1Co 12:18 But now hath God set the members each one of them in the body, even as it pleased him.

1Co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

1Co 12:20 But now they are many members, but one body.

1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of thee: or again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

Yes Paul is clearly saying that they are all a part of the One Body he also shows how those parts are to work in harmony with each other, but he doesn't say that the hand is to do the function of the foot. Nor is the eye to do the hearing of the ear and so forth they are each to fulfill their seperate functions for the balanced health of the whole.

Also Christ says as is recorded in the book of Matthew.

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell.

Mat 18:9 And if thine eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is good for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire.

Christ shows that there is value in keeping the proper parts functioning in their proper way and place, if is faulty it may need to be removed.

Now I know that their isn't a single verse that says that we should practice the Lords Supper with the exclusivity we do. There is however an example that we can draw from that the Lords Supper has it's precurser example in. The Passover meal!

Exo 12:3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to their fathers' houses, a lamb for a household:

Exo 12:4 and if the household be too little for a lamb, then shall he and his neighbor next unto his house take one according to the number of the souls; according to every man's eating ye shall make your count for the lamb.

Exo 12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male a year old: ye shall take it from the sheep, or from the goats:

Exo 12:6 and ye shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month; and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it at even.

Exo 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and put it on the two side-posts and on the lintel, upon the houses wherein they shall eat it. ------------------

Exo 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and there shall no plague be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

Exo 12:14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial, and ye shall keep it a feast to Jehovah: throughout your generations ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.


The custom of the Passover meal is what they were observing when Chrsit gave the example of the Lords Supper because Christ was the real Lamb that was to be slain. In each assembly where we are the blood (His Blood) will be the sign that will asuage the wrath of God.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Then that assembly is seemingly chosing to ignore the qualifications of a deacon to their own detriment.



Quoting 5thID...

"God is the final judge. Im sure you wouldnt want to be judged by imperfect men for your actions either."



:shrug: Their congregation, they decide how they are going to apply the rules.

[cbut1]

Quoting 5thID...

"God is the final judge. Im sure you wouldnt want to be judged by imperfect men for your actions either."



:shrug: Their congregation, they decide how they are going to apply the rules.

Yes to their own detriment!

[RayMan]

Ok continuing on with your thoughts here and shortening it so that we keep on track, I have some contemplations to offer.

1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.

1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; it is not therefore not of the body.

1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; it is not therefore not of the body.

1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

1Co 12:18 But now hath God set the members each one of them in the body, even as it pleased him.

1Co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

1Co 12:20 But now they are many members, but one body.

1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of thee: or again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

Yes Paul is clearly saying that they are all a part of the One Body he also shows how those parts are to work in harmony with each other, but he doesn't say that the hand is to do the function of the foot. Nor is the eye to do the hearing of the ear and so forth they are each to fulfill their seperate functions for the balanced health of the whole.

Also Christ says as is recorded in the book of Matthew.

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell.

Mat 18:9 And if thine eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is good for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire.

Christ shows that there is value in keeping the proper parts functioning in their proper way and place, if is faulty it may need to be removed.

Now I know that their isn't a single verse that says that we should practice the Lords Supper with the exclusivity we do. There is however an example that we can draw from that the Lords Supper has it's precurser example in. The Passover meal!

Exo 12:3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to their fathers' houses, a lamb for a household:

Exo 12:4 and if the household be too little for a lamb, then shall he and his neighbor next unto his house take one according to the number of the souls; according to every man's eating ye shall make your count for the lamb.

Exo 12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male a year old: ye shall take it from the sheep, or from the goats:

Exo 12:6 and ye shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month; and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it at even.

Exo 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and put it on the two side-posts and on the lintel, upon the houses wherein they shall eat it. ------------------

Exo 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and there shall no plague be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

Exo 12:14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial, and ye shall keep it a feast to Jehovah: throughout your generations ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.


The custom of the Passover meal is what they were observing when Chrsit gave the example of the Lords Supper because Christ was the real Lamb that was to be slain. In each assembly where we are the blood (His Blood) will be the sign that will asuage the wrath of God.

Good point all but I don't see the connection to Closed Communion. It's not a real big deal to me but I feel those who practice it do so to their own detriment, whether Baptist or Catholic. I do know though after 25 years of pastoral and missions experience that it can be a stumbling block to many sincere believers when they visit a church and it is made clear from the pulpit that they are not worthy (Paul's very word) to partake of communion with that particular assembly.


BTW - Hope the Youth Gathering went well.

[vir doctus]

Good point all but I don't see the connection to Closed Communion. It's not a real big deal to me but I feel those who practice it do so to their own detriment, whether Baptist or Catholic. I do know though after 25 years of pastoral and missions experience that it can be a stumbling block to many sincere believers when they visit a church and it is made clear from the pulpit that they are not worthy (Paul's very word) to partake of communion with that particular assembly.


BTW - Hope the Youth Gathering went well.

Which is more dangerous, believers with their panties in a bunch or people eating and drinking damnation unto themselves?

[Meriweather]

Good point all but I don't see the connection to Closed Communion. It's not a real big deal to me but I feel those who practice it do so to their own detriment, whether Baptist or Catholic. I do know though after 25 years of pastoral and missions experience that it can be a stumbling block to many sincere believers when they visit a church and it is made clear from the pulpit that they are not worthy (Paul's very word) to partake of communion with that particular assembly.

To clarify: As a Catholic I have never heard from any pulpit that non-Catholics are not worthy to partake communion. It is purely a matter of belief. Many non-Catholics do not believe in transubstantiation, (the bread and wine becoming the body and blood of Christ). Catholic communion is a statement of of this individual and community belief.

If one does not believe transubstantiation takes place, why would one wish to receive communion in a Catholic Church pretending that they do believe in the real presence?

[RayMan]

To clarify: As a Catholic I have never heard from any pulpit that non-Catholics are not worthy to partake communion. It is purely a matter of belief. Many non-Catholics do not believe in transubstantiation, (the bread and wine becoming the body and blood of Christ). Catholic communion is a statement of of this individual and community belief.

If one does not believe transubstantiation takes place, why would one wish to receive communion in a Catholic Church pretending that they do believe in the real presence?

Closed communion is WRONG in my opinion. Goes totally against what Paul was teaching in 1 Cor 11.

[Meriweather]

Closed communion is WRONG in my opinion. Goes totally against what Paul was teaching in 1 Cor 11.

In those days they were still following another directive: That we be one as Jesus and the Father are One. Once the dominoes begin to fall, we have things to put right again, first.

[RayMan]

Hi Meri,
I have no idea what you mean by that. I am simply putting in a plug for love, forgiveness and acceptance in the body of Christ as opposed to certain groups setting themselves apart as being the THE church.

[Meriweather]

Hi Meri,
I have no idea what you mean by that. I am simply putting in a plug for love, forgiveness and acceptance in the body of Christ as opposed to certain groups setting themselves apart as being the THE church.

But we are The Church, and we have tried to remain One.

[RayMan]

But we are The Church, and we have tried to remain One.

When you say "we" do you include Cbut1, Reeder, CID and myself or do you mean The Roman Catholic Church?

That is the very crux of what I am talking about.

[Displaced]

:snooty: Paul was Pentecostal

That made me laugh!!

Don't you know he got reformed in Corinth.;):lol::shhh:

[Meriweather]

When you say "we" do you include Cbut1, Reeder, CID and myself or do you mean The Roman Catholic Church?

That is the very crux of what I am talking about.

In that particular post I was speaking of the Roman Catholic Church.

[cbut1]

Closed communion is WRONG in my opinion. Goes totally against what Paul was teaching in 1 Cor 11.


I know that is the case for you it is also the case for many who do not accept closed communion.

Here is part of the connection you seem to not see in my reference to Israels practice. Israel was One whole nation collectively but God required them to each seperatly within their own households observe the Passover Meal. We as Baptist carry over that practice. It didn't lessen Israel as a nation to do so and neither does it lessen our Faith today.

It also goes along very well with another of our long held beliefs of each being seperate autonomous assemblies. Also it goes well with our understanding of the authority (the Keys Christ mentioned in Matt 16) what we have covenanted together and agreed upon is our binding and loosing authority. We have convenanted together as seperate assemblies agreeing that we would individually as assemblies observe the Lords Supper. It does not lessen our love trust and faith for one another for us it actually supports it. Knowing that we have these common understandings and covenant is an aid in identifying those whom really are our like minded Brothers in Christ.

[RayMan]

In that particular post I was speaking of the Roman Catholic Church.

My point exactly...:hug:

There is really no way for us to come to a point of agreement on the closed communion question because you sincerely believe that the Roman Catholic Church is THE Church and I sincerely don't.

I respect and appreciate Catholics and the RCC. I don't believe it is THE Church anymore than I believe that Cbut1's Baptist assembly or the Pentecostal movement is THE Church. I believe we all (along with all other expressions of the body of Christ) add up to the THE Church.

I don't want to hijack this thread away from it's Baptist roots so if you want to explore this further you might want to open a new thread, maybe along the lines of "The Roman Catholic Church is THE Church." That would no doubt be a lively ride. :)

:hug:

[cbut1]

My point exactly...:hug:

There is really no way for us to come to a point of agreement on the closed communion question because you sincerely believe that the Roman Catholic Church is THE Church and I sincerely don't.

I respect and appreciate Catholics and the RCC. I don't believe it is THE Church anymore than I believe that Cbut1's Baptist assembly or the Pentecostal movement is THE Church. I believe we all (along with all other expressions of the body of Christ) add up to the THE Church.

I don't want to hijack this thread away from it's Baptist roots so if you want to explore this further you might want to open a new thread, maybe along the lines of "The Roman Catholic Church is THE Church." That would no doubt be a lively ride. :)

:hug:


Certain deviations from the intent of a thread is not a bad thing.

[RayMan]

Certain deviations from the intent of a thread is not a bad thing.

And CID IS on his way to Cuba, so it won't get TOO out of hand.:dance:

[cbut1]

And CID IS on his way to Cuba, so it won't get TOO out of hand.:dance:


:think:
On his way there perhaps we should have him attach some pipelines into those Cuba-neese oil pipelines and take our oil back. Covert operations like. :shhh:

[RayMan]

:think:
On his way there perhaps we should have him attach some pipelines into those Cuba-neese oil pipelines and take our oil back. Covert operations like. :shhh:

"CID Escapes from Guantanamo Bay." I should secure the movie rights.

[Meriweather]

My point exactly...:hug:

There is really no way for us to come to a point of agreement on the closed communion question because you sincerely believe that the Roman Catholic Church is THE Church and I sincerely don't.

I respect and appreciate Catholics and the RCC. I don't believe it is THE Church anymore than I believe that Cbut1's Baptist assembly or the Pentecostal movement is THE Church. I believe we all (along with all other expressions of the body of Christ) add up to the THE Church.

I don't want to hijack this thread away from it's Baptist roots so if you want to explore this further you might want to open a new thread, maybe along the lines of "The Roman Catholic Church is THE Church." That would no doubt be a lively ride. :)

:hug:

More specifically, my point is that we started with one church, and from there have been splintering off. If we do start a new thread, I think that would be point I would like to discuss. Has Christianity been splintered and weakened by people breaking away from One church; or, has growth and rebirth been (overall) a positive thing?

Sure, I'm up for a lively ride. What would be the best approach?

[RayMan]

More specifically, my point is that we started with one church, and from there have been splintering off. If we do start a new thread, I think that would be point I would like to discuss. Has Christianity been splintered and weakened by people breaking away from One church; or, has growth and rebirth been (overall) a positive thing?

Sure, I'm up for a lively ride. What would be the best approach?

Probably a thread with a title paraphrasing (thereby shortening) your sentence starting with "Has Christianity been..."

[outdamyboat]

Good point all but I don't see the connection to Closed Communion. It's not a real big deal to me but I feel those who practice it do so to their own detriment, whether Baptist or Catholic. I do know though after 25 years of pastoral and missions experience that it can be a stumbling block to many sincere believers when they visit a church and it is made clear from the pulpit that they are not worthy (Paul's very word) to partake of communion with that particular assembly.


BTW - Hope the Youth Gathering went well.

I'm sorry if I'm stepping in too late, but the closed communion is necesssary in the RCC because of John 6:

The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”
43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’[e]Therefore everyone who has heard and learned[f] from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[g] has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed,[h] and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”
59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
Many Disciples Turn Away

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”[i]
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.


It is the literal interpretation of this these verses that the Catholic Church needs/requires a person to believe in order to protect them from "receiving in an unwothy manner". I was raised Catholic and have no problem w/ closed communion. It is such an important tenent that it needs to be respected, IMO, whether or not I might agree w/ it's Biblical interpretation.

[RayMan]

I'm sorry if I'm stepping in too late, but the closed communion is necesssary in the RCC because of John 6:

The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”
43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’[e]Therefore everyone who has heard and learned[f] from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[g] has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed,[h] and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”
59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
Many Disciples Turn Away

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”[i]
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.


It is the literal interpretation of this these verses that the Catholic Church needs/requires a person to believe in order to protect them from "receiving in an unwothy manner". I was raised Catholic and have no problem w/ closed communion. It is such an important tenent that it needs to be respected, IMO, whether or not I might agree w/ it's Biblical interpretation.


I know why they do it. I just feel they are wrong. Paul SPECIFICALLY states that receiving in an "unworthy manner" has to do with not recognizing or discerning other believers as an equally important part of the body of Christ.

[vir doctus]

What would be the best approach?

Saying, "I agree with Vir." :angel:

[outdamyboat]

I know why they do it. I just feel they are wrong. Paul SPECIFICALLY states that receiving in an "unworthy manner" has to do with not recognizing or discerning other believers as an equally important part of the body of Christ.

I know you dont agree w/ John 6. But, the Catholics really do believe this is fundamental. I just think it needs to be respected.

I know that I think I have a lot of Scripture 'right'...but I aint God...ya know.

I may be very surprised to find that I've misinterpreted some Scripture when I meet my Redeemer face to face. ....I plan on being humble now, and then (now is w/ a 'Within reason' clause :whistle:)

I rest my case (closed communion) primarily on Jesus' words in John 6, in the Catholics defense, not on 1 Cor: 11.

[RayMan]

I know you dont agree w/ John 6. But, the Catholics really do believe this is fundamental. I just think it needs to be respected.

I know that I think I have a lot of Scripture 'right'...but I aint God...ya know.

I may be very surprised to find that I've misinterpreted some Scripture when I meet my Redeemer face to face. ....I plan on being humble now, and then (now is w/ a 'Within reason' clause :whistle:)

I rest my case (closed communion) primarily on Jesus' words in John 6, in the Catholics defense, not on 1 Cor: 11.


Didn't say I don't agree with John 6. Said I don't agree with Closed Communion. No matter who is doing it. No matter what their reasoning is. :hug:

[vir doctus]

Didn't say I don't agree with John 6. Said I don't agree with Closed Communion. No matter who is doing it. No matter what their reasoning is. :hug:

My father uses a statement of faith and trusts the reader to judge whether or not it is appropriate to take communion. I do, however, understand closed communion and the burden ministers feel on not letting people wander into sin haphazardly.

[Meriweather]

Saying, "I agree with Vir." :angel:

That would be the easiest approach. :razz:

[cbut1]

Hey Ladies and you too Rayman

Isn't this my thread shouldn't ya'll agree with me? :D

[Meriweather]

Hey Ladies and you too Rayman

Isn't this my thread shouldn't ya'll agree with me? :D

No. As it is your thread, we should all be questioning you. :razz:
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[RayMan]

No. As it is your thread, we should all be questioning you. :razz:
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

So,
We can all agree to disagree with Cbut1 in his thread, right? :dance:

[cbut1]

No. As it is your thread, we should all be questioning you. :razz:
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)


Dang normally I don't set myself up that easy. :))

[Meriweather]

So,
We can all agree to disagree with Cbut1 in his thread, right? :dance:

Not precisely. We can all agree that we are going to question cbut1 in his thread. ;)

[RayMan]

Not precisely. We can all agree that we are going to question cbut1 in his thread. ;)


Must you always insist on being polite?

[Meriweather]

Must you always insist on being polite?

I'm always polite? :)) :)) :))

I think you will find more than a few here who can remember times...

(Besides, always being polite can be rude in itself!)

[RayMan]

I'm always polite? :)) :)) :))

I think you will find more than a few here who can remember times...

(Besides, always being polite can be rude in itself!)

You are of course correct. :rolleyes::rolleyes: :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[outdamyboat]

Didn't say I don't agree with John 6. Said I don't agree with Closed Communion. No matter who is doing it. No matter what their reasoning is. :hug:

You believe in transubstantiation ? I am confused b/c that would be pretty unusual for a Pentecostal.

I was specifically referring to transubstantiation in my former post.

[RayMan]

You believe in transubstantiation ? I am confused b/c that would be pretty unusual for a Pentecostal.

I was specifically referring to transubstantiation in my former post.

I know.

[outdamyboat]

I know.

Hmm....so u are a closet catholic after all, pope rayman.

(notice i used no capital letters)

It's been nice seeing all you buds this weekend. I have to go to the real world tomorrow, so see you next weekend. Behave and stay well !
:hug:

[RayMan]

I'm just sayin' 1 Cor 11 stands on it's own. Closed communion defies it IMO.

[vir doctus]

Hey Ladies and you too Rayman

Isn't this my thread shouldn't ya'll agree with me? :D

Not with that ghastly avatar. :hand:

[cbut1]

Not with that ghastly avatar. :hand:

Your telling me!

I tied for last place in the football pool in the Sports threads it is my due to the winner of that same week. Payment is 1 week of the winners avatar :frown: Monday night it comes off hopefully never to return.

[cbut1]

I am waiting with anticipation to the day when I can convert Texan-Rep to the ways of the Redskins

[Meriweather]

I am waiting with anticipation to the day when I can convert Texan-Rep to the ways of the Redskins

Redskins? (Adding this team to my notebook).

49ers
Raiders (for husband)
Seahawks (for brother)
Saints (for goodlife)
Steelers (for CID)
Redskins (cbut1)

[cbut1]

Redskins? (Adding this team to my notebook).

49ers
Raiders (for husband)
Seahawks (for brother)
Saints (for goodlife)
Steelers (for CID)
Redskins (cbut1)

Your notebook has 5 winners and 1 Caints, Sorry Goodlife I had to point that out.

[Meriweather]

Your notebook has 5 winners and 1 Caints, Sorry Goodlife I had to point that out.

Everyone is always picking on goodlife's Saints. I just may have to move them to the top of the list. Steelers can be pushed down a little, just on general principles.

Saints (for goodlife)
49ers
Raiders (for husband)
Seahawks (for brother)
Redskins (cbut1)

Steelers (for CID)

[vir doctus]

Your telling me!

I tied for last place in the football pool in the Sports threads it is my due to the winner of that same week. Payment is 1 week of the winners avatar :frown: Monday night it comes off hopefully never to return.

I could never make that wager.

[LeroyBrown]

Okay I got a question...this is something I have wondered about all 29 years of my Baptist life.


Why are there so many green bean casseroles at the pot lucks? Surely people would realize that 12 other people are going to make green bean casseroles, and the world would not end if they just made a simple jell-o salad....

Made of greenbeens, french fried onions and cream of mushroom soup the green bean casserole is a edible emblematic of many things in Christianity.

Contemplate how the three ingredients come together as one casserole and marvel at the Trinity.

Enjoy the different textures and flavors come together in one casserole and think about the church.

Notice how it never seems to end and think about the preaching. :D

[vir doctus]

Made of greenbeens, french fried onions and cream of mushroom soup the green bean casserole is a edible emblematic of many things in Christianity.

Contemplate how the three ingredients come together as one casserole and marvel at the Trinity.

Enjoy the different textures and flavors come together in one casserole and think about the church.

Notice how it never seems to end and think about the preaching. :D
:clap:

[cbut1]

Ok now is there any new questions that this Baptist can answer?

I can take on anything so don't worry about playing nice. :)

[buflineks]

Ok now is there any new questions that this Baptist can answer?

I can take on anything so don't worry about playing nice. :)

Okay, here's one that's been gnawing at me, and is kind of serious.

The old stereo-type of Baptists ( I believe Southern Baptists' esp.) is that Baptists don't dance.

Where did this come from and what is the significance of such stereo-typing?

(btw, I'm just killing time until my "Reformation " class starts.

[RayMan]

Okay, here's one that's been gnawing at me, and is kind of serious.

The old stereo-type of Baptists ( I believe Southern Baptists' esp.) is that Baptists don't dance.

Where did this come from and what is the significance of such stereo-typing?

(btw, I'm just killing time until my "Reformation " class starts.

Hey buf,
Cbut will no doubt give you a definitive answer. I have an anecdote.

Not just a stereotype, though maybe not as wide spread as in decades past. Thirty something years ago at the little Southern Baptist church I attended we had a "tract rack" on the back wall.

Along with the basic "How to witness to a Catholic," "How to witness to a Mormon," "How to witness to a Freemason," type tracts we had one to hand out to "unsaved folks" entitled "Why Baptists Don't Dance."

I forget the exact wording of the tract but it traced dancing back to it's "pagan roots," and made it clear that dancing would lead to pre-marital sex.

[MONGOOSE]

Okay, here's one that's been gnawing at me, and is kind of serious.

The old stereo-type of Baptists ( I believe Southern Baptists' esp.) is that Baptists don't dance.

Where did this come from and what is the significance of such stereo-typing?

(btw, I'm just killing time until my "Reformation " class starts.


I think youv'e watched Footloose too many times.

[buflineks]

I think youv'e watched Footloose too many times.

Once was enough, and if she hadn't have been a cheerleader, I would have never entered the theatre.

[RayMan]

<snip>
(btw, I'm just killing time until my "Reformation " class starts.

Getting an "Extreme Makeover?"

[cbut1]

Once was enough, and if she hadn't have been a cheerleader, I would have never entered the theatre.

:lol:



Those wonderfull damning Cheerleaders leading good men off into temptation.

[cbut1]

Okay, here's one that's been gnawing at me, and is kind of serious.

The old stereo-type of Baptists ( I believe Southern Baptists' esp.) is that Baptists don't dance.

Where did this come from and what is the significance of such stereo-typing?

(btw, I'm just killing time until my "Reformation " class starts.



Well it wasn't a stereotype it was acctualy a common guidline of good conduct in most Baptist assemblies although it wasn't from any verse that says (Thou Shalt not dance). In most Baptist Churches (it does vary from assembly to assembly) there is an item called a Church Covenant, which is a internal commitment document for all members to use as sort of a clift notes on how to behave. It is mainly useful to those who are newly converted and are not yet grounded in Biblical knowledge. It has no binding authority beyond the individual chosing to follow it as it is intended.


Church Covenant
Having been led, as we believe, by the Spirit of God to receive the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior, and on the profession of our faith, having been baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, we do now, in the presence of God and angels, most solemnly and joyfully enter into covenant with one another, as one body in Christ.

We engage, therefore, by the aid of the Holy Spirit, to walk together in Christian love; to strive for the advancement of this church in knowledge, holiness, and comfort; to promote its prosperity and spirituality; to sustain its worship, ordinances, discipline, and doctrines; to give it a sacred pre-eminence over all institutions of human origin; to contribute cheerfully and regularly to the support of the ministry, the expenses of the church, the relief of the poor, and the spread of the gospel through all nations.

We also engage to maintain family and secret devotion; to religiously educate our children; to seek the salvation of our kindred and acquaintances; to walk circumspectly in the world; to be just in our dealings, faithful in our engagements, and exemplary in our deportment; to avoid all tattling, backbiting and excessive anger; and to be zealous in our efforts to advance the kingdom of our Savior.

We further engage to watch over one another in brotherly love; to remember each other in prayer; to aid each other in sickness and distress; to cultivate Christian sympathy in feeling and courtesy in speech; to be slow to take offense, but always ready for reconciliation, and, mindful of the rules of our Savior, to secure it without delay.

We moreover engage, that when we remove from this place, we will as soon as possible unite with some other church, where we can carry out the spirit of this covenant and the principles of God's Word.

This is similar to the one in the assembly I am a part of notice it doesn't say anything directly about dancing and drinking but in some other assemblies it is there plain as day. For us it is covered under the general portion of walking circumspectly in the world. The reason that it is a long held practice is because of where dancing largly occured in the early parts of America, Saloons and brothels. It is difficult to walk circumspectly in the world when one is behaving exactly as the world does and enjoying forbidden fruits.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that is the general understanding in the Churches view. I and many others do share a slightly different view.

The guidline of no dancing by anyone at anytime is in my understanding a overamplification or extreme approach that is largly misapplied. Some try to take that guidline and make it an absolute but in reality there are many verses that describe dancing (as the movie Footloose pointed out). The difference is in why one is dancing, for instance a Ballerina I think is wonderful to watch but a girl getting her grind on is not. If I or my wife were to go out to a perfectly clean dance that would be unacceptable but if we choose to dance with each other in our house then that is beautiful. Do ya get what I mean here? When one is just doing it in a place and manner that is openly to please the desire of the flesh then it is wrong. If it is to honor God and can be demonstrated in a way to honor God it could be acceptable, in a marriage it is acceptable in discretion.

The difficult thing is having young minds being capable of discerning the difference usually they cannot so it is just blanketed a no no.

[cbut1]

Okay, here's one that's been gnawing at me, and is kind of serious.

The old stereo-type of Baptists ( I believe Southern Baptists' esp.) is that Baptists don't dance.

Where did this come from and what is the significance of such stereo-typing?

(btw, I'm just killing time until my "Reformation " class starts.



Now for the funny.


Most of us are white folks and we just cain't dance. :D It's a coverup don't tell anyone. :eek:

[cbut1]

bump

[Christian Voter]

I don't want to quote such a long post, but #485, the explanation of dancing, was very well done. I appreciate the information; I'm sure others will too.
I agree with it, pretty much.
There are many things in modern life that people do, that aren't quite in keeping with a real Christian life.
Many TV shows, movies and music should not be found in our homes.
Oh, and a lot of video games are not too good, either.
So, are there some Baptist Churches that have covenants about these?
I'd be surprised if there aren't.
And do these things get taught in sermons and sunday school?

[Koushi Shinigami]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSwaVvF7rdU

Oh the appple
now is sweet

Oh much sweeter
Than it ought to be.

Another little bite
I don't think there is
Much hope for me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov2KebvFA_k&feature=related


Her legs ran all the way
Up to heaven
And past Avalon

[cbut1]

I don't want to quote such a long post, but #485, the explanation of dancing, was very well done. I appreciate the information; I'm sure others will too.
I agree with it, pretty much.
There are many things in modern life that people do, that aren't quite in keeping with a real Christian life.
Many TV shows, movies and music should not be found in our homes.
Oh, and a lot of video games are not too good, either.
So, are there some Baptist Churches that have covenants about these?
I'd be surprised if there aren't.
And do these things get taught in sermons and sunday school?


I couldn't speak for all Baptist assemblies concerning t.v. and video games but most Baptist assemblies tend to insist on the family behaving properly also by the fathers Godly example and the mothers nurturing instruction. Parents need to teach their children the things of God at home, sermons are for reaching the lost and inspiring the forgotten.

[cbut1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSwaVvF7rdU

Oh the appple
now is sweet

Oh much sweeter
Than it ought to be.

Another little bite
I don't think there is
Much hope for me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov2KebvFA_k&feature=related


Her legs ran all the way
Up to heaven
And past Avalon


Dude you are one weird fella. :eh:

[Koushi Shinigami]

:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:


Dude you are one weird fella. :eh:

*turns down music*

What? Oh. Why thankyou. :hug: Gotta admit, it's an awesome song with a beat you can dance to. :dance:


If I or my wife were to go out to a perfectly clean dance that would be unacceptable but if we choose to dance with each other in our house then that is beautiful. Do ya get what I mean here?

Nope. I don't even come close to understanding that. What on earth is wrong with a "perfectly clean dance" in public? How about ballroom dancing? Is that sinful? Riverdance? Mosh pit? Texas 2 step? Line dancing?

If you want to just dance in your home, go for it. Whatever floats your boat. Just doesn't appeal to me in the least.

[cbut1]

Koushi Shinigami;36076691]:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:




*turns down music*

What? Oh. Why thankyou. :hug: Gotta admit, it's an awesome song with a beat you can dance to. :dance:





:lol:

[cbut1]

bump

Waiting for a hard question here. :D

[av4play]

I asked my pastor about baptism for the dead that is talked about in 1 Corinthians chpt 15 vs 29. He just looked at me like a dear in the headlights. What can you tell me about it?

[cbut1]

I asked my pastor about baptism for the dead that is talked about in 1 Corinthians chpt 15 vs 29. He just looked at me like a dear in the headlights. What can you tell me about it?



First since this is your first post I would like to welcome you to the Hannity Forum. :)

Second as a friendly reminder please remember to read the Rules of Respect (ROR) it is the first thread at the top of the thread titals page.

Thirdly let me get the verses together and I will give you my response.

[cbut1]

I asked my pastor about baptism for the dead that is talked about in 1 Corinthians chpt 15 vs 29. He just looked at me like a dear in the headlights. What can you tell me about it?

This explains it a little more succinctly than I could possibly muster together at this time.

1Co 15:29
Else — if there be no resurrection.
what shall they do? — How wretched is their lot!

they ... which are baptized for the dead — third person; a class distinct from that in which the apostle places himself, “we” (1Co_15:30); first person. Alford thinks there is an allusion to a practice at Corinth of baptizing a living person in behalf of a friend who died unbaptized; thus Paul, without giving the least sanction to the practice, uses an ad hominem argument from it against its practicers, some of whom, though using it, denied the resurrection: “What account can they give of their practice; why are they at the trouble of it, if the dead rise not?” [Jesus also used an ad hominem argument, Mat_12:27].

Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown.


In simplicity it is believed that some were Baptising in the name of deceased people (in such a manner as Mormons do today) yet at the same time they were teaching that the Resurrection was not real. So Paul calls them on it with a sound and reasoned argument if there is no resurrection then why bother baptising in the name of those whom are dead. Which goes back to all the words Paul said in the first 25 verses in this chapter if there is no resurrection of the dead then we are men most to be pitied for we have no hope!

[av4play]

I'm using the King James Version and I'm not seeing what you say in v. 25. So if I understand this chapter, the "saints" that had strayed would be more terrestial. Which to me kind of conflicts with the later verses that says loosey, if I lived a sinful life but do my best I will be raised in power and glory.

I haven't got to much out of the few churchs I've attended so I'm trying to branch out and have my questions answered. I don't want to argue any point but, some have just ignored or done the "political" bypass to what I bring up. At least you have brought up a point that I haven't heard before. I'll have to research it more. You said the mormons practice this today? Maybe I'll ask them about it to get another view and understanding.

[cbut1]

I'm using the King James Version and I'm not seeing what you say in v. 25. So if I understand this chapter, the "saints" that had strayed would be more terrestial. Which to me kind of conflicts with the later verses that says loosey, if I lived a sinful life but do my best I will be raised in power and glory.

I haven't got to much out of the few churchs I've attended so I'm trying to branch out and have my questions answered. I don't want to argue any point but, some have just ignored or done the "political" bypass to what I bring up. At least you have brought up a point that I haven't heard before. I'll have to research it more. You said the mormons practice this today? Maybe I'll ask them about it to get another view and understanding.


American Standard Version
1Co 15:29 Else what shall they do that are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?

Darby Version
1Co 15:29 Otherwise, what shall they do that are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not again at all? Why are they then baptized for them?

KJV
1Co 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

LITV
1Co 15:29 Otherwise, what will they do, those being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not at all raised, why indeed are they baptized on behalf of the dead?

Greek 1881 Wescott-Hort
1 Co 15:29 επει τι ποιησουσιν οι βαπτιζομενοι υπερ των νεκρων ει ολως νεκροι ουκ εγειρονται τι και βαπτιζονται υπερ αυτων



What I said is that Paul was speaking about Christ crucified buried and ressurected from vrs 1 till vrs 25 and how that is the root of the conversation Paul was having with them concerning the question of the resurrection not happening. While at the same time some of the Corintians believed there is no resurrection they were also Baptising in the name of persons already dead. Paul points out the foolishness of these two contradictory practices.

[av4play]

That I got (v29)...but you seemed to completely skirt the other questions/concerns that I mentioned.

[vir doctus]

That I got (v29)...but you seemed to completely skirt the other questions/concerns that I mentioned.
:question: