Ask a Baptist

[Hadassah]

Get your money back: http://liturgist.org/ccel/foxe/martyrs/files/martyrs.html

Eh, I only paid $5. Still too much, IMHO. :mrgreen:

[cbut1]

I like Martyrs Mirror better.

[Hadassah]

I like Martyrs Mirror better.

Care to expound on that?

[RayMan]

Care to expound on that?

Aww...Haddie break her google?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs_Mirror

[Hadassah]

Aww...Haddie break her google?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs_Mirror

lol, thanks.



for the record, my broken google is at the shop, right next to my busted give-a-damn. I'm thinking only the google is getting fixed. :lol:

[RayMan]

lol, thanks.



for the record, my broken google is at the shop, right next to my busted give-a-damn. I'm thinking only the google is getting fixed. :lol:

:dance:

[cbut1]

Care to expound on that?

It is in my estimation a better less biased record of Martyrs then Fox's accounting is.

[vir doctus]

Aww...Haddie break her google?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs_Mirror

http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/

[cbut1]

cbut,

Have a question concerning Baptist successionism and the Paulicans.

I would like it if you woud explain the following discrpancy.

It is my understanding that Baptist congregations are seperate autonomous entities. That there is no centrea figurehead ( i.e. RCC Papacy or Orthodox Patriarch).

Now if this the case, how can one justify in Baptist Successionism inclusion of the Paulicans who had a didaskaos?

According to the historical information the Paulicans had one didaskaos every generation and only one. He was the head of the Paulican church. In fact we have Byzantine records in which the Emporer and Patriarch were petitioned to settle the matter of succession.

For lack of a better comparision (I am only using this as a point of reference, I am not using it to pick a fight or imply anthing) the didaskaos was considered an apostle/prophet similar to the LDS "First President".

In addition how do disqualify the following from Peter of Sicily;

"They say, ' There is only one thing which seperates us from the Romans, that we say that the heaveny father is one god who has no power in this world but has power in the word to come, and that there is another god who made the world and who has power over this present world. The Romans confess that the heavenly Father and the creator of a the world are one and the same God.'"

The quote from Peter of Sicily clearly indicates that the Paulicans were dualists.

Again, I'm wondering how this is explained in including Paulicans as a link in the Chain of Baptis Successionsim?


I am researching this still, but I find that Gibbon (I'm certain you know of him) has a good accounting in his writings.

http://www.ccel.org/g/gibbon/decline/volume2/chap54.htm#Paulicans

Like I said I am still researching this but I do notice that most who write of the Paulicans (not much of their info is existant still) bestow upon Paul of Samosota the name of Apostle but it does not appear to be a name that they themselves used.

[vir doctus]

I am researching this still, but I find that Gibbon (I'm certain you know of him) has a good accounting in his writings.

http://www.ccel.org/g/gibbon/decline/volume2/chap54.htm#Paulicans

Like I said I am still researching this but I do notice that most who write of the Paulicans (not much of their info is existant still) bestow upon Paul of Samosota the name of Apostle but it does not appear to be a name that they themselves used.

Gibbon isn't someone I would use as a reference.

[buflineks]

I am researching this still, but I find that Gibbon (I'm certain you know of him) has a good accounting in his writings.

http://www.ccel.org/g/gibbon/decline/volume2/chap54.htm#Paulicans

Like I said I am still researching this but I do notice that most who write of the Paulicans (not much of their info is existant still) bestow upon Paul of Samosota the name of Apostle but it does not appear to be a name that they themselves used.

So do Baptists practice "...universal contempt for the old testament, the books of Moses, and the prophets..." as Gibbons states?

I conccurr with him (Gibbon) that they were not "Manicheans", for that sect had died out.

I am traveling today, when I get home I will pull out some sources that I would like you to respond to.

[Koushi Shinigami]

:eek:

[cbut1]

So do Baptists practice "...universal contempt for the old testament, the books of Moses, and the prophets..." as Gibbons states?

I conccurr with him (Gibbon) that they were not "Manicheans", for that sect had died out.

I am traveling today, when I get home I will pull out some sources that I would like you to respond to.


Sadly there are some Baptist who believe that the OT is played out or of no value beyond history, my experience here in California though it is few who believe this. I think what some conclude is distain for the OT has more to do with the overall distain many in those days had with anything Hebrew in nature. I beleive the conclusion is an erronious one.

[cbut1]

Gibbon isn't someone I would use as a reference.

Why?

[buflineks]

cbut,

I'm going to open another thread for us to go into discussion on this subject.

I don't want to derail this thread and it's purpose with a bunch of discussion that in essence can be another thread.

[cbut1]

Bump

As a refresher if some are interested.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Dude. You got a parole from teh ban-hammer?

[Lie Sniper]

Dude. You got a parole from teh ban-hammer?

Oh good! Cbut is back. :whistle:

[cbut1]

Dude. You got a parole from teh ban-hammer?

Different Warden I hear.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Different Warden I hear.

So goes the rumor.

[CID_0687]

Hey cbut.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Hey cbut.

Your Brother in Christ is back. :D

[CID_0687]

Your Brother in Christ is back. :D
Verily...and I promise to debate him in a civil manner. :angel:

[Koushi Shinigami]

Verily...and I promise to debate him in a civil manner. :angel:

:angel:

[RayMan]

Howdy hermano cbut.

[beaker]

Which one of the various flavors of Baptist denominations is most Biblically correct?

[CID_0687]

Which one of the various flavors of Baptist denominations is most Biblically correct?
First Reformed Independent Fundamentalist Free Will Southern American Missionary Brethren Baptist Church of Lithuania.

[vir doctus]

First Reformed Independent Fundamentalist Free Will Southern American Missionary Brethren Baptist Church of Lithuania.

Lutherania, not Lithuania. :snooty:

[beaker]

First Reformed Independent Fundamentalist Free Will Southern American Missionary Brethren Baptist Church of Lithuania.


you covered all the bases.:))

[CID_0687]

Lutherania, not Lithuania. :snooty:
Forgive me. :redface:

[CID_0687]

you covered all the bases.:))
;)

[RayMan]

First Reformed Independent Fundamentalist Free Will Southern American Missionary Brethren Baptist Church of Lithuania.

of 1886.

[Lie Sniper]

Do Baptists see other Christians, as Brothers/Sisters in Christ?

[beaker]

Do Baptists see other Christians, as Brothers/Sisters in Christ?

I do.

[RayMan]

Do Baptists see other Christians, as Brothers/Sisters in Christ?

Some does and some don'ts.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Which one of the various flavors of Baptist denominations is most Biblically correct?

*bites off tongue*


:angel:

[Koushi Shinigami]

Do Baptists see other Christians, as Brothers/Sisters in Christ?

:)) :)) :)) :))

You owe me a new keyboard. I just spit up all over mine.


And you're so baaaaaaaaaaad. :evil:

[beaker]

*bites off tongue*


:angel:

Come on Koushi, you can come out of the closet now.

We ALL know you are truly a Baptist deep down inside.:twisted:

[Koushi Shinigami]

Come on Koushi, you can come out of the closet now.

We ALL know you are truly a Baptist deep down inside.:twisted:

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo240/koushishinigami/nuclearblast.jpg

[RayMan]

Come on Koushi, you can come out of the closet now.

We ALL know you are truly a Baptist deep down inside.:twisted:

Yep. He is as vile and wretched as they come.

And those are a couple of his finer qualities. :whistle:

[Lie Sniper]

:)) :)) :)) :))

You owe me a new keyboard. I just spit up all over mine.


And you're so baaaaaaaaaaad. :evil:

:dance:

[cbut1]

I'm at work now I will respond later this evening.


Oh and for those who welcomed me back thank you.

[CID_0687]

I'm at work now I will respond later this evening.


Oh and for those who welcomed me back thank you.
:hug:

[Koushi Shinigami]

Which one of the various flavors of Baptist denominations is most Biblically correct?

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo240/koushishinigami/Nun.jpg

[outfromunder]

Which one of the various flavors of Baptist denominations is most Biblically correct?

Why Southern of course...

(I now stand aside as the myriads of Baptists across Hansterland rip me a new one)

[RayMan]

Why Southern of course...

(I now stand aside as the myriads of Baptists across Hansterland rip me a new one)

Most of them probably think you are closer to the mark than Koushi.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Most of them probably think you are closer to the mark than Koushi.

:angel:


:whistle:

It's likely a mutual thing.

[cbut1]

Do Baptists see other Christians, as Brothers/Sisters in Christ?

Is that an attempt to bait me into a discussion that got me banned?

If so I do believe that is a potential No No.

[Lie Sniper]

Is that an attempt to bait me into a discussion that got me banned?

If so I do believe that is a potential No No.

Oh, is that where you were? I figured you just got fed up with people of differing beliefs trying to get along.

Back to the question, it's really just a simple question. You can answer with a yes or a no, you can answer either yes or no with an explanation, or you can ignore the question.

This is an ASK a Baptist thread isn't it? :confused:

[Elmo]

Do Baptists see other Christians, as Brothers/Sisters in Christ?I suppose that would depend on how one views Christianity. I know many Baptists who do not see other Christian faiths as being "correct" and therefore would not consider their adherents to be "Brothers/Sisters" in Christ. I've known other (more liberal minded) Baptists who think anyone who calls themselves a "Christian" is (we should take it at face value). Personally, I believe it is by their fruits that we shall know them. And if their fruits do not give evidence of the Christian faith, then I see no reason why I should be expected to accept them as a brother or sister in Christ.

[RayMan]

Is that an attempt to bait me into a discussion that got me banned?

If so I do believe that is a potential No No.

On your toes I see. :clap:

That tricky Lutheran. You gotta keep both eyes on him.

Besides, you've already answered that one.

[Lie Sniper]

I suppose that would depend on how one views Christianity. I know many Baptists who do not see other Christian faiths as being "correct" and therefore would not consider their adherents to be "Brothers/Sisters" in Christ. I've known other (more liberal minded) Baptists who think anyone who calls themselves a "Christian" is (we should take it at face value). Personally, I believe it is by their fruits that we shall know them. And if their fruits do not give evidence of the Christian faith, then I see no reason why I should be expected to accept them as a brother or sister in Christ.

Lutherans are similar, ELCA is very open, where Apostolic, Lastadian and WELS are not.

[Reeder]

I suppose that would depend on how one views Christianity. I know many Baptists who do not see other Christian faiths as being "correct" and therefore would not consider their adherents to be "Brothers/Sisters" in Christ. I've known other (more liberal minded) Baptists who think anyone who calls themselves a "Christian" is (we should take it at face value). Personally, I believe it is by their fruits that we shall know them. And if their fruits do not give evidence of the Christian faith, then I see no reason why I should be expected to accept them as a brother or sister in Christ.

Define "Christian faith."

[Koushi Shinigami]

Define "Christian faith."

I'd like a definition of evidence as well.

[vir doctus]

Lutherans are similar, ELCA is very open, were Apostolic, Lastadian and WELS are not.

All who say they follow the Christ I will consider my brother in Christ - until they say or do something so vile that I am ashamed to be associated with that person.

[Lie Sniper]

On your toes I see. :clap:

That tricky Lutheran. You gotta keep both eyes on him.

Besides, you've already answered that one.

:confused: Why?

We can't ask questions in an ASK a Baptist thread?

If he already answered, what's wrong with clarification?

:think:He's been gone for awhile, maybe the answer has changed.

[Lie Sniper]

I'd like a definition of evidence as well.

How about Fruits?

[Koushi Shinigami]

All who say they follow the Christ I will consider my brother in Christ - until they say or do something so vile that I am ashamed to be associated with that person.

That sounds like a good rule of thumb.
















































When did I cross that line? :evil:

[Lie Sniper]

All who say they follow the Christ I will consider my brother in Christ - until they say or do something so vile that I am ashamed to be associated with that person.

That's a reasonable position.

During my search, I checked out a few of those Lutherans and I found out there are a lot of people that are going to burn a fiery eternity in the depths of hell.

According to them.

[vir doctus]

That sounds like a good rule of thumb.

When did I cross that line? :evil:

You haven't. :angel:

[beaker]

:confused: Why?

We can't ask questions in an ASK a Baptist thread?

If he already answered, what's wrong with clarification?

:think:He's been gone for awhile, maybe the answer has changed.

That's the impression I have gotten.

[Koushi Shinigami]

You haven't. :angel:

Ah. A goal. :))

[RayMan]

I'd like a definition of evidence as well.

I would like a definition of "all."

[RayMan]

All who say they follow the Christ I will consider my brother in Christ - until they say or do something so vile that I am ashamed to be associated with that person.

Note to self: Curtail the vileness around CID's sister/cousin.

[RayMan]

:confused: Why?

We can't ask questions in an ASK a Baptist thread?

If he already answered, what's wrong with clarification?

:think:He's been gone for awhile, maybe the answer has changed.

Dude, Baptists don't change.



Unless they go Pentecostal...in which case they receive the left foot of fellowship from amongst the Baptists. :drool:

[RayMan]

How about Fruits?

Get behind me temptation...

[Koushi Shinigami]

Dude, Baptists don't change.



Unless they go Pentecostal...in which case they receive the left foot of fellowship from amongst the Baptists. :drool:

How could a non-Baptist apply to receive such an honor?

[RayMan]

How could a non-Baptist apply to receive such an honor?
I am sure it wouldn't take you long...just be your lovable self.

[Koushi Shinigami]

John 1:13, KJV, states: "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." What's your view of that verse?:)

It's short and appears to be out of context.

But I'm not Baptist so you'll have to wait for one to come answer your question.

[beaker]

John 1:13, KJV, states: "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." What's your view of that verse?:)


It is talking about those that recognized Jesus to be the promised Messiah.

IMO.

[SvetaFludge]

John the baptist was "christ" as well.Because the work "christ" means anointed of God. And God anointed John when he announced his coming. And here again, we have "two" christs alive at the same time. John the son of man , and Jesus the son of God.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Do Baptists kneel in church?


Philippians 2:10-11… that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,

[cbut1]

Do Baptists kneel in church?


Philippians 2:10-11… that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,

Many do when they Pray.

[cbut1]

:confused: Why?

We can't ask questions in an ASK a Baptist thread?

If he already answered, what's wrong with clarification?

:think:He's been gone for awhile, maybe the answer has changed.

To deliberatly ask a question in relation to a previous discussion that led to a ban in an attempt to bait the person asked is a potential hot spot for the one asking. So I am leary to answer so as not to revisit the ban.

No my answer has not changed but perhaps some who would actually listen to the original answer they would see I made not claims against anothers religion. I only stated how we Baptist view the topic.

[cbut1]

Dude, Baptists don't change.



Unless they go Pentecostal...in which case they receive the left foot of fellowship from amongst the Baptists. :drool:

Amen


:whistle:

[cbut1]

John 1:13, KJV, states: "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." What's your view of that verse?:)

Not clear who you are asking but since this is the Ask a Baptist thread I will assume it is me.


Since it is only a snippit of verse in the context of what John is saying I added verses for context.

John 1:

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


The anchor of the messege here is "them that believe on His name" many want to claim belief in His name but some do not actually live the life that truely professes that belief. Whiuch is why the verses of "You shall know them by their fruit" are so important it is our life testimony that is our truest witness of Christ in our lives. Our words can be as false as anything but our life is simply what it is. Either fruitfull for Christ or it is fruitless, one will be blessed and the other will be disregarded.

[RayMan]

Amen


:whistle:

I am the voice of experience after all. :dance:

[RayMan]

To deliberatly ask a question in relation to a previous discussion that led to a ban in an attempt to bait the person asked is a potential hot spot for the one asking. So I am leary to answer so as not to revisit the ban.

No my answer has not changed but perhaps some who would actually listen to the original answer they would see I made not claims against anothers religion. I only stated how we Baptist view the topic.

How YOU Baptist(s) view the subject. Many Baptist folk have a more inclusive doctrine.

[Elmo]

Define "Christian faith."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_faith

[Elmo]

I'd like a definition of evidence as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence

[RayMan]

Dude, you're gonna break your wiki at this rate.

[Elmo]

Dude, you're gonna break your wiki at this rate.:snooty:

[CID_0687]

Dude, you're gonna break your wiki at this rate.
:))

I'm sorry...but for some reason I'm hearing the tune to "Don't Fear the Reaper" in my head...but the lyrics are

"Elmo don't break the wiki."

[RayMan]

:))

I'm sorry...but for some reason I'm hearing the tune to "Don't Fear the Reaper" in my head...but the lyrics are

"Elmo don't break the wiki."

Speakin' of which, I gotta see if we have any shrimp in the fridge. Talking about escargot got me in the mood for seafood.

[Elmo]

Speakin' of which, I gotta see if we have any shrimp in the fridge. Talking about escargot got me in the mood for seafood.Who's talking about snails?

[RayMan]

Who's talking about snails?

You gotta get out of the Baptist thread more often dude.

We're all over the escargot in the Gathering Place

[Elmo]

You gotta get out of the Baptist thread more often dude.

We're all over the escargot in the Gathering PlaceNah, to warm and fuzzy and ecumenical in there for my liking. I might get some pentecosted rubbed off on me if I stick around there too long.

[cbut1]

How YOU Baptist(s) view the subject. Many Baptist folk have a more inclusive doctrine.



Yes well I have covered that in this thread also about the various ""Baptist"" type of Churches also. I'll leave that there for now. :)

[RayMan]

Yes well I have covered that in this thread also about the various ""Baptist"" type of Churches also. I'll leave that there for now. :)

Reminds me of an old Jimmy Swaggart saying:

"There's more Baptists than there are people."

Night-night my Baptist acquaintances.

I would call you my Baptist brethren but, you know...:whistle:

[cbut1]

lol

[Koushi Shinigami]

To deliberatly ask a question in relation to a previous discussion that led to a ban in an attempt to bait the person asked is a potential hot spot for the one asking. So I am leary to answer so as not to revisit the ban.

No my answer has not changed but perhaps some who would actually listen to the original answer they would see I made not claims against anothers religion.

I read that post. And I understood what you were saying.



I only stated how we Baptist view the topic.

That view, is why when I was searching, I found no peace, no comfort, and no accptance for me from people of the Baptist faith. They did not help me in any way to find my way to God. And it is why now, I find little to nothing that I can agree with them upon.

[Lie Sniper]

To deliberatly ask a question in relation to a previous discussion that led to a ban in an attempt to bait the person asked is a potential hot spot for the one asking. So I am leary to answer so as not to revisit the ban.

No necessarily. Its typically what a person says and how a person says it that gets them banned. I take no responsibility in you ability or inability to apply respect as outlined in the ROR for the RF to the things you choose write.

That's like saying other people made me sin or the infamous, "the devil made me do it".

You're not trying to cast blame are you?
May the Lord help you with this personal struggle. :pray:

No my answer has not changed but perhaps some who would actually listen to the original answer they would see I made not claims against anothers religion. I only stated how we Baptist view the topic.

I never said you did. Choosing to not answer my question is a viable option,
but it does seem odd that in an 'ASK a Baptist thread' you would take that route. :confused:

Whatever though dude, I guess we can move on.

Elmo was gracious enough to field the question for you. ;)

[Meriweather]

No necessarily. Its typically what a person says and how a person says it that gets them banned. I take no responsibility in you ability or inability to apply respect as outlined in the ROR for RF to the things you choose write.

That's like saying other people made me sin or the infamous, "the devil made me do it".

You're not trying to cast blame are you?
May the Lord help you with this personal struggle. :pray:



I never said you did. Choosing to not answer my question is a viable option,
but it does seem odd that in an 'ASK a Baptist thread' you would take that route. :confused:

Whatever though dude, I guess we can move on.

Elmo was gracious enough to field the question for you. ;)


I was involved in the discussion at the time cbut1 was issued the ban. Yes, his original post made all of us sit up and take notice. I also recall it was a discussion that spanned over a period of time because cbut1 didn't have long periods of time to spend here. I was just beginning to understand his position (which was respectful) on the original comment (perhaps disrespectful), when the ban hit.

I believe it was the timing of everything that contributed to the ban. Had we all been able to sit down at one time and hash everything out, I think we would have had a better understanding of what cbut1 intended with his original comment. As it was, things got cut off in the middle of the discussion, and there was no final resolution.

In any case, Lie Sniper, I do not agree with your above assessment of the situation. I think the whole thing was unfortunate; that it could have been cleared up with additional discussion.

[Koushi Shinigami]

:evil: :twisted:

[RayMan]

It is all my fault that cbut first came under the TTTM radar.



I am so ashamed of me. :angel:

[Lie Sniper]

I was involved in the discussion at the time cbut1 was issued the ban. Yes, his original post made all of us sit up and take notice. I also recall it was a discussion that spanned over a period of time because cbut1 didn't have long periods of time to spend here. I was just beginning to understand his position (which was respectful) on the original comment (perhaps disrespectful), when the ban hit.

I believe it was the timing of everything that contributed to the ban. Had we all been able to sit down at one time and hash everything out, I think we would have had a better understanding of what cbut1 intended with his original comment. As it was, things got cut off in the middle of the discussion, and there was no final resolution.

In any case, Lie Sniper, I do not agree with your above assessment of the situation. I think the whole thing was unfortunate; that it could have been cleared up with additional discussion.

What assessment?

I asked a question a few posts back and cbut got defensive.
The only thing I'm discussing is from my question forward. Cbut refused to answer (which is his prerogative) and now we are moving on. The only thing I take issue with is the idea that someones lack of self control and lack of respect for others can be blamed on another post/poster.

I did not intend on even discussing his or any one's ban. He is and you are. Again, my question up until this point is all I'm currently wanting to be involved in.

If we can't ask a baptist in a an "Ask a Baptist thread", the what is the purpose of this thread?

[RayMan]

What assessment?

I asked a question a few posts back and cbut got defensive.
The only thing I'm discussing is from my question forward. Cbut refused to answer (which is his prerogative) and now we are moving on. The only thing I take issue with is the idea that someones lack of self control and lack of respect for others can be blamed on another post/poster.

I'm not even discussing his or any one's ban. He is and you are. Again, my question up until this point is all I'm currently involved in.

If we can't ask a baptist in a an "Ask a Baptist thread", the what is the purpose of this thread?

Ticking off the Lutheran's is always a worthwhile reason to start a thread.


Let it go young padawan. This is not the thread you are looking for.

[Lie Sniper]

Ticking off the Lutheran's is always a worthwhile reason to start a thread.


Let it go young padawan. This is not the thread you are looking for.

So I'm being shown the door because I asked:

Originally Posted by Lie Sniper
Do Baptists see other Christians, as Brothers/Sisters in Christ? [

Yeah, that's a tough question. :confused:




But, whatever. :rolleyes:

[RayMan]

So I'm being shown the door because I asked:

Yeah, that's a tough question. :confused:

But, whatever. :rolleyes:

Pesky Lutheran's with their unanswerable questionings. :))

[Koushi Shinigami]

So I'm being shown the door because I asked:



Yeah, that's a tough question. :confused:




But, whatever. :rolleyes:


In answer to your question, none ever called me their brother.

[Lie Sniper]

In answer to your question, none ever called me their brother.

Refusal to answer a simple yes or no question because of fear of being banned and then being asked to leave is answer enough.

You can feel the Christian love in here. :rolleyes:


I'll be your brother in Christ. :hug:

[vir doctus]

Its typically what a person says and how a person says it that gets them banned. I take no responsibility in you ability or inability to apply respect as outlined in the ROR for the RF to the things you choose write.


Mr. Kotter, Mr. Kotter !!! I could give an example:

Most conservative Lutheran churches will NOT allow non-Lutherans to take communion; this position could be interpreted that Lutherans do not consider other denominations their Brother or Sister in Christ.

:angel:

[Koushi Shinigami]

Refusal to answer a simple yes or no question because of fear of being banned and then being asked to leave is answer enough.

You can feel the Christian love in here. :rolleyes:


I'll be your brother in Christ. :hug:

BROTHER. :hug:

Care for a pint? :dance:

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo240/koushishinigami/brilliant-1.jpg

[Lie Sniper]

Mr. Kotter, Mr. Kotter !!! I could give an example:

Most conservative Lutheran churches will NOT allow non-Lutherans to take communion; this position could be interpreted that Lutherans do not consider other denominations their Brother or Sister in Christ.

:angel:

Yep. Some do not regardless of communion.

http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=69468501&postcount=2302

[Lie Sniper]

BROTHER. :hug:

Care for a pint? :dance:

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo240/koushishinigami/brilliant-1.jpg

Sounds good.

I'll trust your faith is pure, and let God be the actual judge. You can do the same. :hug:


Let's drink on it. ;)

[Jacob_Rising]

Sounds good.

I'll trust your faith is pure, and let God be the actual judge. You can do the same. :hug:


Let's drink on it. ;)Excellent!

[Koushi Shinigami]

Sounds good.

I'll trust your faith is pure, and let God be the actual judge. You can do the same. :hug:


Let's drink on it. ;)

BRILLIANT!!!! :clap:

[buflineks]

Is it all my fault that cbut first came under the TTTM radar.



I am so ashamed of me. :angel:


SEE!?!?!?!?!?!


I TOLD you.... It's all Rayman's fault!:))



I know.... probably not the best time to run with this gag....but it was sooooooo easy, I couldn't resist.:wall:

[Koushi Shinigami]

SEE!?!?!?!?!?!


I TOLD you.... It's all Rayman's fault!:))



I know.... probably not the best time to run with this gag....but it was sooooooo easy, I couldn't resist.:wall:

I still blame Buf. :razz:

[Lie Sniper]

BRILLIANT!!!! :clap:

You're in, J_R's in, now if we can get a "HECK YEAH!" from the Baptists, we're set!

[buflineks]

I still blame Buf. :razz:

Do I need to set up a 12 step program for this on the RF?:))

[RayMan]

Do I need to set up a 12 step program for this on the RF?:))

We need a Baptist up in here.

[Lie Sniper]

We need a Baptist up in here.

Yeah, where are they?

[RayMan]

Yeah, where are they?

Maybe they gave up posting for Lent.

[buflineks]

Maybe they gave up posting for Lent.


Now THAT"S funny!:))

[cbut1]

Mr. Kotter, Mr. Kotter !!! I could give an example:

Most conservative Lutheran churches will NOT allow non-Lutherans to take communion; this position could be interpreted that Lutherans do not consider other denominations their Brother or Sister in Christ.

:angel:



That gets to the heart of what I was saying before my ban.

I also was encouraging everyone else to consider their own faiths doctrinal positions and be cautious at whom they call Brother or Sister in Christ for it may be in violation of their own faiths doctrinal position.

[RayMan]

If one is a Christian one doesn't have to worry about such things.

Glad I am a Christian. It doesn't violate my faith's doctrinal position to call other Christian's brother or sister.

[cbut1]

I was involved in the discussion at the time cbut1 was issued the ban. Yes, his original post made all of us sit up and take notice. I also recall it was a discussion that spanned over a period of time because cbut1 didn't have long periods of time to spend here. I was just beginning to understand his position (which was respectful) on the original comment (perhaps disrespectful), when the ban hit.

I believe it was the timing of everything that contributed to the ban. Had we all been able to sit down at one time and hash everything out, I think we would have had a better understanding of what cbut1 intended with his original comment. As it was, things got cut off in the middle of the discussion, and there was no final resolution.

In any case, Lie Sniper, I do not agree with your above assessment of the situation. I think the whole thing was unfortunate; that it could have been cleared up with additional discussion.



Yeah in fact that very night I tried logging in to answer the next string of questions I spurred was when I discovered I was banned from the RF. I then made statments to FW that he apparently felt did not work so the Ban got expanded.


I am disappointed others cannot understand the cautionary position this particular topic has put me in.

I still believe what I believe but apparently it is to hot to touch for some to discuss it rationally.

I do appreciate your attempt to stick up for me when the actions were taken, I was kinda shocked by it.

[cbut1]

It is all my fault that cbut first came under the TTTM radar.



I am so ashamed of me. :angel:



ehh the joke didn't work so we moved on. No biggie I still think it was funny and so does my Pentecostal uncle.

[RayMan]

ehh the joke didn't work so we moved on. No biggie I still think it was funny and so does my Pentecostal uncle.

I really need to have a talk with him. :whistle:

[cbut1]

So I'm being shown the door because I asked:



Yeah, that's a tough question. :confused:




But, whatever. :rolleyes:



I have not asked you to leave it is my thread after all.

I don't mind the question but you need to understand that part of the ROR do not allow badgering (not saying you are but it was the very first question out of the gate when I came back after 3 months absent) in relation to a ban.

So I am cautious. If that is offensive to your sensabilities then I don't know what I can do to correct that, except ask for you patience.

[cbut1]

SEE!?!?!?!?!?!


I TOLD you.... It's all Rayman's fault!:))



I know.... probably not the best time to run with this gag....but it was sooooooo easy, I couldn't resist.:wall:


Nice to see you still hang around here my friend.

[RayMan]

Nice to see you still hang around here my friend.

It's not my fault he is still here.

Regardless of what he says.

[RayMan]

I have not asked you to leave it is my thread after all.
<snip>

Actually, it is Sean's thread.

[vir doctus]

That gets to the heart of what I was saying before my ban.

I also was encouraging everyone else to consider their own faiths doctrinal positions and be cautious at whom they call Brother or Sister in Christ for it may be in violation of their own faiths doctrinal position.

I think Lutherans that hold the position I stated are daft and self-righteous. God called us to the world not to a club.

[CID_0687]

I have not asked you to leave it is my thread after all.

I don't mind the question but you need to understand that part of the ROR do not allow badgering (not saying you are but it was the very first question out of the gate when I came back after 3 months absent) in relation to a ban.

So I am cautious. If that is offensive to your sensabilities then I don't know what I can do to correct that, except ask for you patience.
I got your back bro.

Snipes, chill.

...

:)

peace...

[RayMan]

I think Lutherans that hold the position I stated are daft and self-righteous. God called us to the world not to a club.



I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members.

Groucho Marx

[cbut1]

I think Lutherans that hold the position I stated are daft and self-righteous. God called us to the world not to a club.

As long as I have known you on here I figured that was your position on it.

Although it does show that my statment is not foreign to others either.

As I have said before Baptist are exclusionary as it relates to other religious formats, but inclusionary for all of mankind to be partakers of God Grace.

[cbut1]

Actually, it is Sean's thread.

It is actually my established discussion thread in Seans forum, which he can override and supercede my thread at anytime.

[RayMan]

As long as I have known you on here I figured that was your position on it.

Although it does show that my statment is not foreign to others either.

As I have said before Baptist are exclusionary as it relates to other religious formats, but inclusionary for all of mankind to be partakers of God Grace.

Good thing I got reformatted thirty years ago.

[RayMan]

It is actually my established discussion thread in Seans forum, which he can override and supercede my thread at anytime.

Nope, it's Sean's thread.


Thanks for reaffirming my belief that you will disagree with anything I say. It is a great comfort to know that some things in life never change.

[cbut1]

Oh BTW since this is the first I have spoken to you since your illness.

Welcome back and good health to you I mentioned at Church several times I had a friend that was sick and needed prayers and I am pleased they were answered.

[RayMan]

Oh BTW since this is the first I have spoken to you since your illness.

Welcome back and good health to you I mentioned at Church several times I had a friend that was sick and needed prayers and I am pleased they were answered.

Thanks. I am indeed much better and appreciate the effectual prayers. :hug:

[buflineks]

Nice to see you still hang around here my friend.


Thank you cbut.

I've been off grid for the last few months due to academic and bussiness obligations. But I've tried to pop in whenever possible.

You can never tell when or where I will be lurking.:twisted:

[beaker]

Lie Sniper,

I was involved in that discussion as well and asked another Baptist if he considered me to be his brother in Christ. I was told no, since he didn't know me that well.:rolleyes: If they chose to act that way, so be it, not my loss.

I, being a Baptist can assure you that not all Baptists think this way, as I do not. I take someone at face value, until they prove otherwise. If they confess Christ to be their Lord and Savior, they are my brother/sister in Christ.

The fact that someone has Christ as their personal Savior to me is majoring in the majors. All the other stuff is minor, which I minor in.


;)

[RayMan]

Lie Sniper,

I was involved in that discussion as well and asked another Baptist if he considered me to be his brother in Christ. I was told no, since he didn't know me that well.:rolleyes: If they chose to act that way, so be it, not my loss.

I, being a Baptist can assure you that not all Baptists think this way, as I do not. I take someone at face value, until they prove otherwise. If they confess Christ to be their Lord and Savior, they are my brother/sister in Christ.

The fact that someone has Christ as their personal Savior to me is majoring in the majors. All the other stuff is minor, which I minor in.


;)

I believe you have to be at least 18 to participate in this thread. That is why you never see byz around these parts.

[cbut1]

Lie Sniper,

I was involved in that discussion as well and asked another Baptist if he considered me to be his brother in Christ. I was told no, since he didn't know me that well.:rolleyes: If they chose to act that way, so be it, not my loss.

I, being a Baptist can assure you that not all Baptists think this way, as I do not. I take someone at face value, until they prove otherwise. If they confess Christ to be their Lord and Savior, they are my brother/sister in Christ.

The fact that someone has Christ as their personal Savior to me is majoring in the majors. All the other stuff is minor, which I minor in.


;)



Do you recall the verses I used in that conversation? They are the ones I refered to to support my shocking statment.

[vir doctus]

Do you recall the verses I used in that conversation? They are the ones I refered to to support my shocking statment.

Let Verse Wars commence:

Finally, brethren, pray for us that the word of the Lord will spread rapidly and be glorified, just as it did also with you; and that we will be rescued from perverse and evil men; for not all have faith...

Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us...

For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies...

But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good.

If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame.

Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

From 2 Thess. 3

According to the Word of God, those who do not have faith are distinguished from those who have faith but do not walk in it according to their calling. The first is so called "evil", the latter is "brother".

In my feeble opinion, opportunities are missed to encourage and strengthen Brothers in Christ when we look down on them for not goose stepping a particular doctrine.

[beaker]

Let Verse Wars commence:

Finally, brethren, pray for us that the word of the Lord will spread rapidly and be glorified, just as it did also with you; and that we will be rescued from perverse and evil men; for not all have faith...

Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us...

For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies...

But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good.

If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame.

Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

From 2 Thess. 3

According to the Word of God, those who do not have faith are distinguished from those who have faith but do not walk in it according to their calling. The first is so called "evil", the latter is "brother".

In my feeble opinion, opportunities are missed to encourage and strengthen Brothers in Christ when we look down on them for not goose stepping a particular doctrine.

Amen.

I like this one as well:

From 2 Peter.

3seeing that His (H (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NASB#cen-NASB-30483H))divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true (I (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NASB#cen-NASB-30483I))knowledge of Him who (J (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NASB#cen-NASB-30483J))called us by His own glory and excellence.

4For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent (K (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NASB#cen-NASB-30484K))promises, so that by them you may become (L (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NASB#cen-NASB-30484L))partakers of the divine nature, having (M (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NASB#cen-NASB-30484M))escaped the (N (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NASB#cen-NASB-30484N))corruption that is in (O (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NASB#cen-NASB-30484O))the world by lust.
5Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith (P (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NASB#cen-NASB-30485P))supply (Q (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NASB#cen-NASB-30485Q))moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, (R (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NASB#cen-NASB-30485R))knowledge,
6and in your knowledge, (S (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NASB#cen-NASB-30486S))self-control, and in your self-control, (T (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NASB#cen-NASB-30486T))perseverance, and in your perseverance, (U (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NASB#cen-NASB-30486U))godliness, 7and in your godliness, (V (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NASB#cen-NASB-30487V))brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.

[beaker]

Do you recall the verses I used in that conversation? They are the ones I refered to to support my shocking statment.

No verse, but it started about here, when you said I should have a little more humility.

http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=65498571&postcount=237

and this comment about Southern Baptist.

http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=65547321&postcount=276

You can read on thru the rest of the thread and see the rest of the conversation, or at least what FW didn't delete.

If this is how you view my beliefs, and who I am, I want no part of your brand of Baptist.

[vir doctus]

No verse, but it started about here, when you said I should have a little more humility.

http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=65498571&postcount=237



I am saved so you and I can hang out at God's Starbucks in our new bodies and enjoy a drink together.

[beaker]

I am saved so you and I can hang out at God's Starbucks in our new bodies and enjoy a drink together.

That would be most excellent!:hug:

[vir doctus]

Dear Posters,

I'm not dead yet!

Regards,

Thread

[cbut1]

lol

[cbut1]

No verse, but it started about here, when you said I should have a little more humility.

http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=65498571&postcount=237

and this comment about Southern Baptist.

http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=65547321&postcount=276

You can read on thru the rest of the thread and see the rest of the conversation, or at least what FW didn't delete.

If this is how you view my beliefs, and who I am, I want no part of your brand of Baptist.



Concerning the Southern Baptist comment you'll hopefully notice I was speaking specifically about CID's choice not about Southern Baptist.

[Lie Sniper]

Concerning the Southern Baptist comment you'll hopefully notice I was speaking specifically about CID's choice not about Southern Baptist.

So Southern Baptists are your Brothers and Sisters in Christ?

[cbut1]

Which one of the various flavors of Baptist denominations is most Biblically correct?

Well to answer this one would need to know the practice and doctrine of each ""flavor"" (your term) of Baptist.

There are certain Doctrinal Markers that are a must according to our understanding.

1. Authority (What is the authority, where does it reside, how is it expressed, when is it given) type of topics.

2. Baptism (same basic guidlines as above)

3. Lords Supper (also same as above)

Some will make this list expanded out to a few other preferred key markers but those will fluctuate with each group even possibly with each assembly. These 3 above are consistant in all lists, if the practices of an assembly are in line with the above doctrines then they would be considered Baptist.


So the answer would be to search their doctrine in relation to Gods Word and let the Spirit reveal the truth of the matter. Now along with this one can reasonably go through history and find a trail of assemblies that meet these doctrines today in harmony with Christs established assembly.

[RayMan]

So Southern Baptists are your Brothers and Sisters in Christ?

Whoa there Snipes...let's not go nuts here.

[Lie Sniper]

Whoa there Snipes...let's not go nuts here.

I'm just trying to figure out who gets into Cubt's heaven.

[RayMan]

I'm just trying to figure out who gets into Cubt's heaven.

You forgot the i in cubit. Can't fit very many people in a heaven that is only as big as a cubit.

That is why you have to be very exclusive as to who is allowed in.

If they don't know the secret handshake, it's the Lake of Fire for them!

[cbut1]

I'm just trying to figure out who gets into Cubt's heaven.

See it is that characterization that is so pathetic. I am not saying I have control over anything so stop calling it my heaven as if I do have control.

[cbut1]

You forgot the i in cubit. Can't fit very many people in a heaven that is only as big as a cubit.

That is why you have to be very exclusive as to who is allowed in.

If they don't know the secret handshake, it's the Lake of Fire for them!

And your encouragement of this doesn't help.

[Lie Sniper]

See it is that characterization that is so pathetic. I am not saying I have control over anything so stop calling it my heaven as if I do have control.

Well at least you guys let women preach. That's pretty excepting IMO.

[cbut1]

Well at least you guys let women preach. That's pretty excepting IMO.

Not we don't.

[RayMan]

And your ecouragment of this doesn't help.

Oh, I don't know. :whistle::whistle:


At least I am pointing out Snipes misspelling rather than anyone else's.

[Lie Sniper]

Not we don't.

Oh? Well at least you welcome homosexuals into your congregations. Everyone needs to hear the Word. That very excepting IMO.

[Elmo]

Oh? Well at least you welcome homosexuals into your congregations. Everyone needs to hear the Word. That very excepting IMO.I would assume they accept every type of sinner into their congregation to hear the word of God. Why would you think they (or any church) would want to exclude them? Do they wear a big label on themselves which identifies them as "homosexuals" or any other label that says "Hi, my name is Joe and I'm a {insert sin here}"?

[Lie Sniper]

I would assume they accept every type of sinner into their congregation to hear the word of God. Why would you think they (or any church) would want to exclude them? Do they wear a big label on themselves which identifies them as "homosexuals" or any other label that says "Hi, my name is Joe and I'm a {insert sin here}"?

You didn't read my post.

I was assuming the best, at least until I'm corrected.

[Ignorance Breeds Contempt]

Ah, a thread filled with "Christians" making snarky comments about each others denominations and doctrinal beliefs. Paul would have been so proud.

[RayMan]

Ah, a thread filled with "Christians" making snarky comments about each others denominations and doctrinal beliefs. Paul would have been so proud.

Yeah. :hug:

[Ignorance Breeds Contempt]

Yeah. :hug:

I am of Luther, I am of Wesley, I am of Presbit (:))), I am of Bapto (:))). Wonder if Scripture addresses this at all :whistle:

[CID_0687]

I am of Luther, I am of Wesley, I am of Presbit (:))), I am of Bapto (:))). Wonder if Scripture addresses this at all :whistle:
I'm of Christ. You can keep your old dead white guys. :D

[cbut1]

Oh? Well at least you welcome homosexuals into your congregations. Everyone needs to hear the Word. That very excepting IMO.

Yes we do as we do all sinners. Even you!

and it is accepting not excepting.

[CID_0687]

Yes we do as we do all sinners. Even you!

and it is accepting not excepting.
When cbut1 corrects someone's grammatical errors, it's bad.

:))

[Ignorance Breeds Contempt]

I'm of Christ. You can keep your old dead white guys. :D

Psh, you act like you were baptized in the name of Christ or that He is your righteousness and redemption.

[cbut1]

When cbut1 corrects someone's grammatical errors, it's bad.

:))

Yeah usually the Lutheran Viking is correcting me.

[RayMan]

When cbut1 corrects someone's grammatical errors, it's bad.

:))

It would be even more embarrassing if buf were doing it.

Just sayin'.

[buflineks]

When cbut1 corrects someone's grammatical errors, it's bad.

:))

But not near as bad if it had been me.;)

[CID_0687]

Psh, you act like you were baptized in the name of Christ or that He is your righteousness and redemption.
Bought and paid for...the receipt was printed in blood.

[CID_0687]

But not near as bad if it had been me.;)
Ray and you make an excellent point.

[Ignorance Breeds Contempt]

Bought and paid for...the receipt was printed in blood.

Next you are going to be telling me it was so that your boast would be in the Lord and not in yourself or your denominational affiliation. Where do you come up with these wild ideas?

[CID_0687]

Next you are going to be telling me it was so that your boast would be in the Lord and not in yourself or your denominational affiliation. Where do you come up with these wild ideas?
I'd tell you, but you probably wouldn't believe me.

[Ignorance Breeds Contempt]

I'd tell you, but you probably wouldn't believe me.

:)) Well-played. Thanks for participating. It was fun to have a thinly veiled discussion of I Corinthians 1 to satirize denominational dogmatism :) I have to go, though. The wife's getting anxious.

[CID_0687]

:)) Well-played. Thanks for participating. It was fun to have a thinly veiled discussion of I Corinthians 1 to satirize denominational dogmatism :) I have to go, though. The wife's getting anxious.
Don't wanna keep Mama waiting.

Have a good night.

[Lie Sniper]

Yes we do as we do all sinners. Even you!

and it is accepting not excepting.


I'm aware of the difference.;)




Welcome back to the RF.:hug:

[Lie Sniper]

Ah, a thread filled with "Christians" making snarky comments about each others denominations and doctrinal beliefs. Paul would have been so proud.

That's pretty good, I like how you throw in a little judgement to strengthen your point.

Well done. Well done indeed!:clap:

[vir doctus]

See it is that characterization that is so pathetic. I am not saying I have control over anything so stop calling it my heaven as if I do have control.

Will non-Baptists be in Baptist heaven?

Isn't the heart of the "I won't call them my Brother in Christ" that they aren't eligible for heaven?

[RayMan]

Will non-Baptists be in Baptist heaven?

Isn't the heart of the "I won't call them my Brother in Christ" that they aren't eligible for heaven?

Reminds me of a joke my Southern Baptist pastor liked to tell. Looking back over the past thirty years I realize now he was more inclusive than I thought at the time.

Anyhow:

Seems this Baptist fellow died and went to heaven. The gatekeeper (a Catholic fellow named Peter) assigned him an angel to guide him to his place in heaven.

The angel led the Baptist down a long hallway with closed doors on either side. After a while the Baptist started wondering why they did not come across anyone else and what was up with all the closed doors. So he asked the angel about it.

"Shh," the angel said. "The Catholics are behind the door we just passed, the Pentecostals are behind the door we are just now passing and the Baptists are behind that door just up ahead."

"Oh," said the Baptist. "Why do we have to be so quiet."

"They all think that they are the only ones here," replied the angel.

[Elmo]

Will non-Baptists be in Baptist heaven?

Isn't the heart of the "I won't call them my Brother in Christ" that they aren't eligible for heaven?There is no such thing as a "Baptist heaven" so why do you call it that when clearly cbut does not believe in such a thing?

Who do you think is "eligible for heaven"?

[vir doctus]

There is no such thing as a "Baptist heaven" so why do you call it that when clearly cbut does not believe in such a thing?


Were it clear the question would not have been asked.

[Elmo]

Were it clear the question would not have been asked.I think we can infer that he does not believe in a "baptist heaven" based on his response in post #2402 (http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=69668391&postcount=2402). Like Liesniper, you mischaracterize cbut's beliefs about heaven. Why is that even necessary? It is not cbut's heaven any more than it is a "baptist heaven". So again I ask why you felt the need to create such a characature?

[vir doctus]

Like Liesniper, you mischaracterize cbut's beliefs about heaven.

No such thing occurred in my simple question. :rolleyes:

I have seen the fruit of the beliefs and I would like to know if such is a Baptist position or an individual position.

[RayMan]

Boy. You folk who have the mistaken idea that we go to heaven when we die sure do fuss a lot about it.

I will stick with the Bible thought of death as sleep and being woke up at the resurrection to undergo the judgment at the Great White Throne.

[vir doctus]

Boy. You folk who have the mistaken idea that we go to heaven when we die sure do fuss a lot about it.

I will stick with the Bible thought of death as sleep and being woke up at the resurrection to undergo the judgment at the Great White Throne.

Second verse same as the first.

Venerable One, I think you lost the thread that was dealing with that issue.

[RayMan]

Second verse same as the first.

Venerable One, I think you lost the thread that was dealing with that issue.

I'm 'enery the eight I am. :))

[meggers49]

I suppose that would depend on how one views Christianity. I know many Baptists who do not see other Christian faiths as being "correct" and therefore would not consider their adherents to be "Brothers/Sisters" in Christ. I've known other (more liberal minded) Baptists who think anyone who calls themselves a "Christian" is (we should take it at face value). Personally, I believe it is by their fruits that we shall know them. And if their fruits do not give evidence of the Christian faith, then I see no reason why I should be expected to accept them as a brother or sister in Christ.

to the first half of your statement, sounds like what the Catholic Church used to think....though I never actually heard them...i understand it is true and i thought it was stupid when i was little and still do........I'm glad they got beyond that.......

to the second half......I feel the same way. You can call yourself ANYTHING, it's how you behave that shows who you are and what you believe.

[meggers49]

Mr. Kotter, Mr. Kotter !!! I could give an example:

Most conservative Lutheran churches will NOT allow non-Lutherans to take communion; this position could be interpreted that Lutherans do not consider other denominations their Brother or Sister in Christ.

:angel:

Most Catholic Churches don't allow it either (if they are behaving themselves) yet it is simply because they view it in an absolute way, as do Lutherans. It is not symbolic, it IS Christ. HOWEVER, the Catholic Church does find other Christian denominations to be brothers and sisters in Christ, just in a different manner.

[meggers49]

As long as I have known you on here I figured that was your position on it.

Although it does show that my statment is not foreign to others either.

As I have said before Baptist are exclusionary as it relates to other religious formats, but inclusionary for all of mankind to be partakers of God Grace.

then why would you hesitate to call us brothers and sisters in Christ, since it's his Grace that brings us Christ in the first place. If we are all believers in that Christ, and we are children of God, doesn't that make us brothers and sisters in belief in the Son?

[meggers49]

See it is that characterization that is so pathetic. I am not saying I have control over anything so stop calling it my heaven as if I do have control.

doesn't exclusionary faith limit those who would be allowed in?

By saying that those who are not of your denomination are not brothers and sisters in Christ, doesn't that in essence say that what we believe is not good enough to gain us heaven?

it cannot be both.

[buflineks]

Although I can not speak for those of the Baptist denomination today as to "Brothers in Christ", my research has shown me that this exact question as to inclusion of other denominations led to such movements as the "Landmark Baptist" movement championed by Graves.

In fact, at the Cotton Grove Convention (June 24,1851) the question of recognizing other denominations did in fact come up with the following question:

"Can Baptists, consistently with their principles or the Scriptures, recognize those societies not organized according to the pattern of the Jerusalem Church, but possessing different governments, different officers, a different class of members, different ordinaces, doctrines, and practices as churches of Christ" (Italics in origional)

Graves, J.R. Old Landmarkism: What is it? Memphis. 1880. 14.

I think that it depends upon which sect of the Baptist Faith you encounter on whether or not they accept other denominations as "Brothers/Sisters in Christ".

[beaker]

Although I can not speak for those of the Baptist denomination today as to "Brothers in Christ", my research has shown me that this exact question as to inclusion of other denominations led to such movements as the "Landmark Baptist" movement championed by Graves.

In fact, at the Cotton Grove Convention (June 24,1851) the question of recognizing other denominations did in fact come up with the following question:

"Can Baptists, consistently with their principles or the Scriptures, recognize those societies not organized according to the pattern of the Jerusalem Church, but possessing different governments, different officers, a different class of members, different ordinaces, doctrines, and practices as churches of Christ" (Italics in origional)

Graves, J.R. Old Landmarkism: What is it? Memphis. 1880. 14.

I think that it depends upon which sect of the Baptist Faith you encounter on whether or not they accept other denominations as "Brothers/Sisters in Christ".

interesting.

I sure am glad Christ is more accepting than some of those sects.

[vir doctus]

Although I can not speak for those of the Baptist denomination today as to "Brothers in Christ", my research has shown me that this exact question as to inclusion of other denominations led to such movements as the "Landmark Baptist" movement championed by Graves.

In fact, at the Cotton Grove Convention (June 24,1851) the question of recognizing other denominations did in fact come up with the following question:

"Can Baptists, consistently with their principles or the Scriptures, recognize those societies not organized according to the pattern of the Jerusalem Church, but possessing different governments, different officers, a different class of members, different ordinaces, doctrines, and practices as churches of Christ" (Italics in origional)

Graves, J.R. Old Landmarkism: What is it? Memphis. 1880. 14.

I think that it depends upon which sect of the Baptist Faith you encounter on whether or not they accept other denominations as "Brothers/Sisters in Christ".

Gracias.

[RayMan]

doesn't exclusionary faith limit those who would be allowed in?

By saying that those who are not of your denomination are not brothers and sisters in Christ, doesn't that in essence say that what we believe is not good enough to gain us heaven?

it cannot be both.

You didn't get the memo that explains that this is a logic-free thread?

[RayMan]

Although I can not speak for those of the Baptist denomination today as to "Brothers in Christ", my research has shown me that this exact question as to inclusion of other denominations led to such movements as the "Landmark Baptist" movement championed by Graves.

In fact, at the Cotton Grove Convention (June 24,1851) the question of recognizing other denominations did in fact come up with the following question:

"Can Baptists, consistently with their principles or the Scriptures, recognize those societies not organized according to the pattern of the Jerusalem Church, but possessing different governments, different officers, a different class of members, different ordinaces, doctrines, and practices as churches of Christ" (Italics in origional)

Graves, J.R. Old Landmarkism: What is it? Memphis. 1880. 14.

I think that it depends upon which sect of the Baptist Faith you encounter on whether or not they accept other denominations as "Brothers/Sisters in Christ".

You gotta remember these folks trace their roots back to John the Baptist, not Jesus.

John was one tough son of a gun.

[CID_0687]

You gotta remember these folks trace their roots back to John the Baptist, not Jesus.

John was one tough son of a gun.
I've been to my share of Baptist potlucks...I recall plenty of dishes with honey in them...but no locusts.

[Lie Sniper]

doesn't exclusionary faith limit those who would be allowed in?

By saying that those who are not of your denomination are not brothers and sisters in Christ, doesn't that in essence say that what we believe is not good enough to gain us heaven?

it cannot be both.

Good summary.
I suspect at some point we'll find out if this is a "mischaracterization", because as you know some Baptists are very "excepting". ;)

[CID_0687]

Good summary.
I suspect at some point we'll find out if this is a "mischaracterization", because as you know some Baptists are very "excepting". ;)
I'm a fan of the Pentecostal Free Will Baptists.

[Lie Sniper]

I'm a fan of the Pentecostal Free Will Baptists.

Did Ray tell you to say that? :))

[CID_0687]

Did Ray tell you to say that? :))
Nah...but I'm sure he'll agree.

[buflineks]

I'm a fan of the Pentecostal Free Will Baptists.

How do they differ from Free Range Baptists?

[Lie Sniper]

Nah...but I'm sure he'll agree.

He told you to say that too, didn't he?

[Lie Sniper]

How do they differ from Free Range Baptists?

Fencing.

[buflineks]

Fencing.

Which one uses a sabre and which one uses an Epee'?

[CID_0687]

Which one uses a sabre and which one uses an Epee'?
Epee...is that how you **** someone off online?

[Lie Sniper]

Epee...is that how you **** someone off online?

Online shelter? :rolleyes: I know, that's pretty bad. :redface:

[Ignorance Breeds Contempt]

That's pretty good, I like how you throw in a little judgement to strengthen your point.

Well done. Well done indeed!:clap:

What judgment? Are you referencing my assessment of some of the comments people have made in the thread about various denominations? Is there another adjective that you would have preferred? I think any objective observer would be able to tell that some comments in this thread have been less than pleasant in that regard.

[Lie Sniper]

What judgment? Are you referencing my assessment of some of the comments people have made in the thread about various denominations? Is there another adjective that you would have preferred? I think any objective observer would be able to tell that some comments in this thread have been less than pleasant in that regard.

I was complementing the snarkiness that you used while commenting on the snarky "Christians".

It was well played. :clap:

No need to back pedal now, this thread has moved on since then.

[Ignorance Breeds Contempt]

I was complementing the snarkiness that you used while commenting on the snarky "Christians".

It was well played. :clap:

No need to back pedal now, this thread has moved on since then.

:think::lol::)) I think you got me. I see your point and "touche'".

[Hadassah]

How do they differ from Free Range Baptists?

Free Range Baptists are "humanely raised" and given access to the outdoors and sunshine, the way they were raised historically.Much like the free range chickens. :whistle:

[Lie Sniper]

:think::lol::)) I think you got me. I see your point and "touche'".

;)

[Ignorance Breeds Contempt]

No need to back pedal now, this thread has moved on since then.


No worries. Pay attention to my posting here and you'll learn that I don't backpedal. I fess up to my mistakes and admit when someone gets a good one over on me.

[Koushi Shinigami]

That gets to the heart of what I was saying before my ban.

I also was encouraging everyone else to consider their own faiths doctrinal positions and be cautious at whom they call Brother or Sister in Christ for it may be in violation of their own faiths doctrinal position.

Since when does violating a man-made doctrinal position put one's salvation in jeopardy?

[Koushi Shinigami]

Well to answer this one would need to know the practice and doctrine of each ""flavor"" (your term) of Baptist.

There are certain Doctrinal Markers that are a must according to our understanding.

1. Authority (What is the authority, where does it reside, how is it expressed, when is it given) type of topics.

2. Baptism (same basic guidlines as above)

3. Lords Supper (also same as above)

Some will make this list expanded out to a few other preferred key markers but those will fluctuate with each group even possibly with each assembly. These 3 above are consistant in all lists, if the practices of an assembly are in line with the above doctrines then they would be considered Baptist.


So the answer would be to search their doctrine in relation to Gods Word and let the Spirit reveal the truth of the matter. Now along with this one can reasonably go through history and find a trail of assemblies that meet these doctrines today in harmony with Christs established assembly.

I did that. You won't like the truth that the Spirit revealed to me.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Yes we do as we do all sinners. Even you!

and it is accepting not excepting.

:))

I'm pretty sure he meant it exactly as he wrote it.

[Koushi Shinigami]

When cbut1 corrects someone's grammatical errors, it's bad.

:))

Are you sure it was an error? :think:

I'm thinking LS has been up to a bit of wordsmithing.

[Koushi Shinigami]

There is no such thing as a "Baptist heaven" so why do you call it that when clearly cbut does not believe in such a thing?

Who do you think is "eligible for heaven"?

Everyone. John 3:16

[Koushi Shinigami]

Boy. You folk who have the mistaken idea that we go to heaven when we die sure do fuss a lot about it.

I will stick with the Bible thought of death as sleep and being woke up at the resurrection to undergo the judgment at the Great White Throne.

Will you notice the passage of time while you sleep?

[Koushi Shinigami]

then why would you hesitate to call us brothers and sisters in Christ, since it's his Grace that brings us Christ in the first place. If we are all believers in that Christ, and we are children of God, doesn't that make us brothers and sisters in belief in the Son?

Perhaps in this case, it's better to err on the side of Grace and Charity than on the side of caution.

[outfromunder]

As my venerable Southern Baptist preacher said in yesterday's sermon,
"Baptists know the Bible....


































They Just dont read it"...

[RayMan]

Will you notice the passage of time while you sleep?

Don't think so. Just a lovely time of rest until the Last trump and the voice of the Archangel (not archangelo) awakens me. Tell the truth, I am looking forward to the rest.

[Reeder]

everyone. John 3:16

+1

[RayMan]

Everyone. John 3:16

But you have to keep the words "world" and "whosoever" in context. :whistle::whistle:

God only loves the elect. Hasn't Billy taught you guys anything over the past week?

[beaker]

Don't think so. Just a lovely time of rest until the Last trump and the voice of the Archangel (not archangelo) awakens me. Tell the truth, I am looking forward to the rest.

you want us to let you sleep in?

[RayMan]

you want us to let you sleep in?

That would be lovely, thanks.

[beaker]

That would be lovely, thanks.

I don't know if you will be able to sleep thru all the ruckus though, seeing how all those Pentecostals will be there.:D

[Koushi Shinigami]

Don't think so. Just a lovely time of rest until the Last trump and the voice of the Archangel (not archangelo) awakens me. Tell the truth, I am looking forward to the rest.

So then your perception will be that you are instantly in Heaven as you won't be able to sense the passage of time. And since for many, perception is reality......

[CID_0687]

I don't know if you will be able to sleep thru all the ruckus though, seeing how all those Pentecostals will be there.:D
You have a point...Mrs. CID has told me that I've woken her up before because I'm praying in tongues in my sleep...

[RayMan]

So then your perception will be that you are instantly in Heaven as you won't be able to sense the passage of time. And since for many, perception is reality......

By Jove (who by the way I don't believe ever existed) I think he's got it!

Except for the Heaven part. Unless the Great White Throne judgment takes place in heaven which I am not sure about.

[vir doctus]

Unless the Great White Throne judgment takes place in heaven which I am not sure about.

I know where the great white throne judgement is but I am too much a lady to speak of such base things.

[RayMan]

I know where the great white throne judgement is but I am too much a lady to speak of such base things.

No doubt.

[meggers49]

How do they differ from Free Range Baptists?

corn fed?

[meggers49]

By Jove (who by the way I don't believe ever existed) I think he's got it!

Except for the Heaven part. Unless the Great White Throne judgment takes place in heaven which I am not sure about.

I think jove was a god and had as much power as any demon who was called on

[outfromunder]

The Southern Baptist in me must make a clarification
By Jove:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_did_the_phrase_'By_Jove'_originate

Carry on

[CID_0687]

The Southern Baptist in me must make a clarification
By Jove:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_did_the_phrase_'By_Jove'_originate

Carry on
It's always better to blaspheme mythological gods.

[RayMan]

I think jove was a god and had as much power as any demon who was called on

Ninjas...sigh.

[cbut1]

Will non-Baptists be in Baptist heaven?

Isn't the heart of the "I won't call them my Brother in Christ" that they aren't eligible for heaven?

Please read the thread I started that deals more directly with this topic. You will see how incorrect this assertion by you is.

[vir doctus]

Please read the thread I started that deals more directly with this topic. You will see how incorrect this assertion by you is.

Oooh, a mystery.

Squirrel!

[cbut1]

Free Range Baptists are "humanely raised" and given access to the outdoors and sunshine, the way they were raised historically.Much like the free range chickens. :whistle:

Ok this is funny

BTW I work for a Chicken company and I can tell you that there is nothing different about Free Range chicken verses normal chicken we process.

The difference is in the way they are housed normal chickens stay in their houses with all the environamental controls and food and water to plump them up nice and fat. (Much like us Baptist)

The Free range Birds live exactly the same way down to the last things food water everything except this 1 tiny little deviation, the door to their house is left open so that if they wanted to go out they can, ( most don't because they get free food indoors so why leave) but those tree huggers will pay 4 times the money for a bird that can walk out the door but doesn't. That is free range chicken in a processing company. ( Baptist Tent Meetings )

[cbut1]

Since when does violating a man-made doctrinal position put one's salvation in jeopardy?

I dunno, thats not what I am talking about so you got me.

[cbut1]

Will non-Baptists be in Baptist heaven?

Isn't the heart of the "I won't call them my Brother in Christ" that they aren't eligible for heaven?

I have never heard of Baptist heaven.

Besides it is the Kingdom of God that is our goal.

[cbut1]

Reminds me of a joke my Southern Baptist pastor liked to tell. Looking back over the past thirty years I realize now he was more inclusive than I thought at the time.

Anyhow:

Seems this Baptist fellow died and went to heaven. The gatekeeper (a Catholic fellow named Peter) assigned him an angel to guide him to his place in heaven.

The angel led the Baptist down a long hallway with closed doors on either side. After a while the Baptist started wondering why they did not come across anyone else and what was up with all the closed doors. So he asked the angel about it.

"Shh," the angel said. "The Catholics are behind the door we just passed, the Pentecostals are behind the door we are just now passing and the Baptists are behind that door just up ahead."

"Oh," said the Baptist. "Why do we have to be so quiet."

"They all think that they are the only ones here," replied the angel.



I think this is the 3rd time someone has shared this very same joke in one of my threads.

[cbut1]

I think we can infer that he does not believe in a "baptist heaven" based on his response in post #2402 (http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=69668391&postcount=2402). Like Liesniper, you mischaracterize cbut's beliefs about heaven. Why is that even necessary? It is not cbut's heaven any more than it is a "baptist heaven". So again I ask why you felt the need to create such a characature?


I appreciate your reasoned response.

I have known Vir since day one for me on these forums and I find her to be a good woman who truely stands on what she believes and for that I honestly respect her. Sometimes when people do not understand a position or do not try to understand a position they erroniously characterize it so that it has a unappealing aura about it. Perhaps that is why the case here or perhaps she truely was unclear.


There is no such things as cbut1's heaven or Baptist heaven or even a doggie heaven, heaven is not a specific place it is a general term frequently misapplied.

Most people when they say they are going to heaven are in fact (even though they are unaware of it) refering to the Kingdom of God. If one was to go to heaven they could get there on their own, birds fly threw heaven all day long.

[cbut1]

No such thing occurred in my simple question. :rolleyes:

I have seen the fruit of the beliefs and I would like to know if such is a Baptist position or an individual position.

Your not looking then.

and neither is the answer to it being a Baptist or individual position.

[CID_0687]

I appreciate your reasoned response.

I have known Vir since day one for me on these forums and I find her to be a good woman who truely stands on what she believes and for that I honestly respect her. Sometimes when people do not understand a position or do not try to understand a position they erroniously characterize it so that it has a unappealing aura about it. Perhaps that is why the case here or perhaps she truely was unclear.


There is no such things as cbut1's heaven or Baptist heaven or even a doggie heaven, heaven is not a specific place it is a general term frequently misapplied.

Most people when they say they are going to heaven are in fact (even though they are unaware of it) refering to the Kingdom of God. If one was to go to heaven they could get there on their own, birds fly threw heaven all day long.
Well yeah, the first heaven...astronauts have been to the second heaven...I don't reckon we'll make it to the third heaven though...unless we have a vision like Paul did.

[vir doctus]

I appreciate your reasoned response.

I have known Vir since day one for me on these forums and I find her to be a good woman who truely stands on what she believes and for that I honestly respect her. Sometimes when people do not understand a position or do not try to understand a position they erroniously characterize it so that it has a unappealing aura about it. Perhaps that is why the case here or perhaps she truely was unclear.


There is no such things as cbut1's heaven or Baptist heaven or even a doggie heaven, heaven is not a specific place it is a general term frequently misapplied.

Most people when they say they are going to heaven are in fact (even though they are unaware of it) refering to the Kingdom of God. If one was to go to heaven they could get there on their own, birds fly threw heaven all day long.

Heaven is a term used generally to refer to a time or place of exceeding pleasure. The clear Word of God says that pure joy is being with Him. I am with Him right now and, therefore, am already walking in Heaven - just with a lesser body than I can expect in the future.

The terms 'cbut's heaven' or 'Baptist heaven' are not that we are idiots who actually think there is such a place, but they refer to your idea or Baptist idea of what heaven is. And you avoid addressing the question by claiming there is no such heaven.

If you can imagine anyone but yourself or anyone but Baptists "in heaven", who are those people and will you call them Brother this side of death?

[Koushi Shinigami]

By Jove (who by the way I don't believe ever existed) I think he's got it!

Except for the Heaven part. Unless the Great White Throne judgment takes place in heaven which I am not sure about.

In that case, both sides of the discussion are right.

[Koushi Shinigami]

I dunno, thats not what I am talking about so you got me.

Ok. What were you talking about with this:

That gets to the heart of what I was saying before my ban.

I also was encouraging everyone else to consider their own faiths doctrinal positions and be cautious at whom they call Brother or Sister in Christ for it may be in violation of their own faiths doctrinal position.

[RayMan]

In that case, both sides of the discussion are right.

Ah...the Koushiami Maru Win-Win Scenario.

Gotta love it.

[RayMan]

I think this is the 3rd time someone has shared this very same joke in one of my threads.

We are hoping that you will eventually get the point home-fry. :hug:

[Koushi Shinigami]

Ah...the Koushiami Maru Win-Win Scenario.

Gotta love it.

:cool: