Jon & Kate Plus 8

[newyorkjetsfan]

I just started to watch Jon & Kate Plus 8 on TLC about a couple who gave birth to a set of twins and a set of sextuplets.

It's a good show.

Anyone watches it?

[Fire Watch]

My wife does. We thought a single set of triplets was bad. These folks are insane.

[PhilRocksinOHIO.]

Yet another useless reality show.

[Stuball]

Yet another useless reality show.
Something else we agree on Phil

[5thIDSoldier]

It has got to be the craziest thing I've heard of. Last night she was showing her post delivery stomach and it was just plain gross.

[newyorkjetsfan]

It was amusing when I saw Kate berated Jon over not using a coupon to buy a shower head on the last episode.

[psyko kat]

I bet they hunt for dropped change in parking lots.lol. they also can pick up aluminum cans from the road side.

[countmein]

It was amusing when I saw Kate berated Jon over not using a coupon to buy a shower head on the last episode.


I have watched the show a couple of times, but I cannot watch it on a regular basis. It is ususally when I am feeling down about myself. I know that I have some control issues, but that woman makes me look like a saint. She is very controlling and has some major OCD issues. I told my hubby one night, "If you think you have it bad with me, just pop that show on and you will be down on your knees and thanking God that I am not her and after watching her, you will see me in a much better light." After watching the show, he agreed.

[Dreamy]

Yet another useless reality show.

I must agree Phil. I love the kids but the show is tough to watch cos of the way the Mom is. Shrew! Him? Weak.

[psyko kat]

Iv won't watch the show, I'm not going to add to the ratings by watching it.

[RTchoke]

I can understand needing to have some control of things when you have that many kids around, but damn...................that woman takes anal retentive to the max.

[Buffalo]

I can understand needing to have some control of things when you have that many kids around, but damn...................that woman takes anal retentive to the max.
Run to the hills, run for your life.

Absolutely.

[super cool ski instructor]

I must agree Phil. I love the kids but the show is tough to watch cos of the way the Mom is. Shrew! Him? Weak.

I completely agree. The 2 times I saw it I was paying more attention to their dynamic as a couple than I was to the dynamic between parents and kids.

Unbelievable!!!

[rosiegirl]

I hate this show. Honestly,who cares. The way that man lets his wife berate him...........grow some balls, buddy.

[ThrowCop]

I must agree Phil. I love the kids but the show is tough to watch cos of the way the Mom is. Shrew! Him? Weak.:))

Well, you know my opinion of him & her. I can't stand to watch a man whose wife carries his testicles in her handbag...

[AugustGem]

:))

Well, you know my opinion of him & her. I can't stand to watch a man whose wife carries his testicles in her handbag...

Where do you propose she should carry them? ;)

[ThrowCop]

Where do you propose she should carry them? ;)Maybe if she let him have them like once or twice a week....

[Buffalo]

Maybe if she let him have them like once or twice a week....
Seeing as how they used IVF for the kids, I doubt that has ever happened. :D

[ThrowCop]

Seeing as how they used IVF for the kids, I doubt that has ever happened. :DOuch... I did not know that.

I'd feel sorry for him, but he chose to be with that she-beast, so he obviously gets something out of it...

[Dreamy]

:))

Well, you know my opinion of him & her. I can't stand to watch a man whose wife carries his testicles in her handbag...

It is sad. I see it more and more these days with some men. Oprahfied menfolk. Thank you radical feminists. Thank you for a generation of men who have been given the role of eunuch.

You know there is a happy medium that falls between machismo pig and castrated girlwoman. :))

[Dreamy]

Ouch... I did not know that.

I'd feel sorry for him, but he chose to be with that she-beast, so he obviously gets something out of it...

He must get some negative feedback from his friends and co-workers.

[Buffalo]

Ouch... I did not know that.

I'd feel sorry for him, but he chose to be with that she-beast, so he obviously gets something out of it...
Masochistic pleasure?

Seriously, the kids are very cute, and I'm sure those are his reasons. Well maybe a little sure.

[Dreamy]

Masochistic pleasure?

Seriously, the kids are very cute, and I'm sure those are his reasons. Well maybe a little sure.

I suppose we only see what the camera shows us. Who knows what happens when they are not watched.

[Pudge]

I just started to watch Jon & Kate Plus 8 on TLC about a couple who gave birth to a set of twins and a set of sextuplets.

It's a good show.

Anyone watches it?

I feel bad for John. Kate is a total... well... I can't say it or it will get me booted. Let's just say she's not a pleasant person, and I really feel bad for anyone that is married to a total witch like Kate.

[Pudge]

It was amusing when I saw Kate berated Jon over not using a coupon to buy a shower head on the last episode.

Amusing? Seriously, that's infuriating to me.

Next season: John Minus Nine. That guy is going to snap one day.

[Ballygrl]

It was amusing when I saw Kate berated Jon over not using a coupon to buy a shower head on the last episode.

Kate is horrible to Jon, I stopped watching the show because she's just annoying and a whiner. I have no idea how Jon puts up with her.

[AugustGem]

Ouch... I did not know that.

I'd feel sorry for him, but he chose to be with that she-beast, so he obviously gets something out of it...

I think he has the satisfaction of knowing that everything he does (wrong lol) or doesn't do drives her nuts.

Plus, she is a bit more "into" him more than he is her. I'll admit, I watch the damn show... the kids were cute so they got me. But she does work hard to keep the family going and from what I've gathered between watching the show and her family that she has cut out, he is a bit of a deadbeat. She was a professional, he was like a waiter who had no desire to do anything. He hasn't really held a job during their marriage.
Before they "hit it big" with TLC she managed the money to make it stretch, keeps the house extremely clean, keeps the kids on a schedule, feeds them healthy food and so forth. He does a lot, she just has to tell him to do things.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

Yet another family I had not heard of until reading of them here. I watched a few episodes (that were available on you tube) and had to wonder how on earth these two very 'urban' type people were going to make it on a farm. :D

Other then being obsessed with a clean home, Kate strikes me as a young mother who needs to choose her battles. A clean refrigerator (which she spent 4 hours cleaning) or enjoying a nice walk of the new property with her husband an children...and she choose the frig.....imo, the frig could have waited. ;)

Becoming verbally stressed with a partner over the cost of a shower head...using a coupon or not..is so far from what the real issue is. imo, Kate needs to re prioritize her life and the limited energy she has. Her husband needs to grow up and relaize the laid back approach is not working in his personal relationship with his wife. She's gonna keep pushing until he finally pushes back.

Those children....imo, not well disciplined. I'm sure with camera crews rolling, parenting becomes more then difficult and PC'd. Me...I wouldn't care what America thought of my more scheduled, disciplined, routine based parenting style was. I know what works...and it is hardly in line with what parenting mags and Oprah/Dr. Phil types recommend. Tough noogies is what I say to that....:D

~Mysty

[countmein]

What did it for me was an episode when a couple of the younger ones got out of their crib before she came to get them. She made them stay in the cribs for an additional TWO HOURS. She stated that this was a set punishment. Even for those who use a time-out system, you are only suppose to time them out for 1 minute for each year they are old. That should have been 2 minutes tops. TWO HOURS. She is a control freak, bottom line.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

What did it for me was an episode when a couple of the younger ones got out of their crib before she came to get them. She made them stay in the cribs for an additional TWO HOURS. She stated that this was a set punishment. Even for those who use a time-out system, you are only suppose to time them out for 1 minute for each year they are old. That should have been 2 minutes tops. TWO HOURS. She is a control freak, bottom line.

2 hour time out? Seems beyond extreme for any child under the age of 10!

Kate seems to be a A type personalitie. There is nothing wrong with being clean and organized...it's way better then lazy and slovenly don't ya think?

I believe Kate is using trying to be clean, scheduled etc, as a way to feel in control of an out of control setting. I don't see a 'parenting' style as yet that is a united front. Seems Kate is an island all her own. Jon, being more laid back, just goes with the flow. Put those two together...and your bound to have a few issues in the relationship. I'm sure Kate feels like the 'parent' in her home..ie the adult....while Jon gets to just be 'fun daddy'; or ie her 9th child. :whistle:

I noticed the body language in the 'new house' episode I watched. Kate literally had her arms tucked into her trunk, and her shoulder pulled away from Jon. I got that to mean that Jon is not pulling his weight as far as Kates perspective of it. Jon...well, like most young men in his situation...new father and husband....he doesn't know what to do...does what he is told...and then wonder why his mate is high strung?

They will work it out...they have too! Can you imagine child support for 8 children? Talk about cheaper to keep her!

~Mysty

[super cool ski instructor]

What did it for me was an episode when a couple of the younger ones got out of their crib before she came to get them. She made them stay in the cribs for an additional TWO HOURS. She stated that this was a set punishment. Even for those who use a time-out system, you are only suppose to time them out for 1 minute for each year they are old. That should have been 2 minutes tops. TWO HOURS. She is a control freak, bottom line.

Says who?

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

Says who?

Oh your so good....Love it! :mrgreen:

To answer your question though...all the quack baby books and Pc wacko parenting 'experts' give the parameters of 1 minutes per year of age for any time out. Any more then that is a waste upon the child as the child supposedly forgets what it is in the time out for. :rolleyes:

I personally never used time outs....so not an expert on the subject. Just regurgitating what I have read or heard from other Mom's on the topic.

~Mysty

[super cool ski instructor]

Oh your so good....Love it! :mrgreen:

To answer your question though...all the quack baby books and Pc wacko parenting 'experts' give the parameters of 1 minutes per year of age for any time out. Any more then that is a waste upon the child as the child supposedly forgets what it is in the time out for. :rolleyes:

I personally never used time outs....so not an expert on the subject. Just regurgitating what I have read or heard from other Mom's on the topic.

~Mysty


I am so glad I am not one of those wacko people :))

Seriously....1 minute for each year they are alive? If my 3 year old bites me to the point that skin is broken...what the hell good is sitting them down for 3 minutes going to do? :))

I'm old school...I say bite the kid back....not breaking the skin, but showing them that it hurts!

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

I am so glad I am not one of those wacko people :))

Seriously....1 minute for each year they are alive? If my 3 year old bites me to the point that skin is broken...what the hell good is sitting them down for 3 minutes going to do? :))

I'm old school...I say bite the kid back....not breaking the skin, but showing them that it hurts!

LOL...and now I know I'm in good company...as my husband and I both did the same thing. Guess what...kid bites ya once...got a nice bite in return....and it never happened again. Hmmmm.....lol....Dr. Phil outta put that in his shoe and smoke it. :))

I understand not all children require the same style of parenting....however, a stable, scheduled, routine based day to day in a organized, clean home with discipline and lots of love wins the day every darn time! ;)

~Mysty

[khigh]

I am so glad I am not one of those wacko people :))

Seriously....1 minute for each year they are alive? If my 3 year old bites me to the point that skin is broken...what the hell good is sitting them down for 3 minutes going to do? :))

I'm old school...I say bite the kid back....not breaking the skin, but showing them that it hurts!

I don't do time outs. My daughter at 1 1/2 does not know what they mean, but she does know what a spanking is. Everyone that sees her out in public comments on how disciplined she is, sticking by my side while we walk through stores and such. I can't see how people can live with the kids that run amok all the time. Too tiring for me!

[super cool ski instructor]

LOL...and now I know I'm in good company...as my husband and I both did the same thing. Guess what...kid bites ya once...got a nice bite in return....and it never happened again. Hmmmm.....lol....Dr. Phil outta put that in his shoe and smoke it. :))

I understand not all children require the same style of parenting....however, a stable, scheduled, routine based day to day in a organized, clean home with discipline and lots of love wins the day every darn time! ;)

~Mysty

You are spot on!

I worked in daycare for 6 years, and I always found how time outs (the only discipline we could use) seemed to work well on the kids that I knew were spanked at home. I personally think they responded to it at the center because they were not "over time-outized" at home.

And yes...I totally just made up a new word "over time-outized" :))

[super cool ski instructor]

I don't do time outs. My daughter at 1 1/2 does not know what they mean, but she does know what a spanking is. Everyone that sees her out in public comments on how disciplined she is, sticking by my side while we walk through stores and such. I can't see how people can live with the kids that run amok all the time. Too tiring for me!

I agree.

[AugustGem]

What did it for me was an episode when a couple of the younger ones got out of their crib before she came to get them. She made them stay in the cribs for an additional TWO HOURS. She stated that this was a set punishment. Even for those who use a time-out system, you are only suppose to time them out for 1 minute for each year they are old. That should have been 2 minutes tops. TWO HOURS. She is a control freak, bottom line.


I've seen every episode, I don't recall that one. Weird because she uses the minute by ages rule with time out.

[AugustGem]

I am so glad I am not one of those wacko people :))

Seriously....1 minute for each year they are alive? If my 3 year old bites me to the point that skin is broken...what the hell good is sitting them down for 3 minutes going to do? :))

I'm old school...I say bite the kid back....not breaking the skin, but showing them that it hurts!

My Godson went through the biting stage. I took his arm and put it in his mouth and he bit himself. He scream bloody murder. Never bit me again :)

[countmein]

Says who?

I was going by all the "experts" who advocate them. We don't usually use them. Although, standing my 5 year old son in the corner is worse for him than a spanking. You have to find what works for each child. Sometimes it takes a stern voice and look, sometimes it takes a slap on the hand or fanny, sometimes it takes 5 minutes in a corner. All it takes with my 3 year old is for me to raise my voice and she stops what she is doing immediately. With my son it takes a little more to get his attention.
By any stretch of the imagination, a two hour time out for a child under the age of two is waaaaaaay too excessive, in my humble opinion. If you seen that particular show, you would have seen that she wasn't trying to discipline the children, she was trying to control them, and not in a good way.

[countmein]

I've seen every episode, I don't recall that one. Weird because she uses the minute by ages rule with time out.
It was the one where they were reorganizing the garage.

[Ballygrl]

What did it for me was an episode when a couple of the younger ones got out of their crib before she came to get them. She made them stay in the cribs for an additional TWO HOURS. She stated that this was a set punishment. Even for those who use a time-out system, you are only suppose to time them out for 1 minute for each year they are old. That should have been 2 minutes tops. TWO HOURS. She is a control freak, bottom line.

She's such a clean freak that when 1 of the poor kids had a stomach virus she made the kid sleep in the laundry room.

[Dreamy]

I wonder what she was like before she had all the kids.

[AugustGem]

I wonder what she was like before she had all the kids.

She had cats (saw an eppy of home vids before they were married) really hairy cats. I know they are supposed to be "clean" but a germaphobe as she claims to be to have cats seems weird.

I think the 8 babies sucked her rational brain cells from her

[angelicmadrigal]

By any stretch of the imagination, a two hour time out for a child under the age of two is waaaaaaay too excessive, in my humble opinion.

My opinion on timeouts is that if a child is resisting the tiem out, throwing a tantrum, etc...they remain in the time out as long as it takes them to CALM down and resume their original time. Most kids aI know under 2 aren't capable of "timout" because they don't understand it....

[angelicmadrigal]

Says who?

Well I know for one if the state liscensing agencies catch us issuing a time out that is longer than 1 minute for each year, we can be written up and fined.

[angelicmadrigal]

I'm old school...I say bite the kid back....not breaking the skin, but showing them that it hurts!

Flicking the kid's nose like a puppy/kitten works too. I used to do that with the little girl I babysat in HS. The harder she bit me the harder I flickered her nose....she only did that a handful of times. Of course now if you're babysitting, or work in daycare you aren't allowed to do that.

[super cool ski instructor]

I was going by all the "experts" who advocate them. We don't usually use them. Although, standing my 5 year old son in the corner is worse for him than a spanking. You have to find what works for each child. Sometimes it takes a stern voice and look, sometimes it takes a slap on the hand or fanny, sometimes it takes 5 minutes in a corner. All it takes with my 3 year old is for me to raise my voice and she stops what she is doing immediately. With my son it takes a little more to get his attention.
By any stretch of the imagination, a two hour time out for a child under the age of two is waaaaaaay too excessive, in my humble opinion. If you seen that particular show, you would have seen that she wasn't trying to discipline the children, she was trying to control them, and not in a good way.


Oh you will nt hear me argue with your 2 hour assessment.....but then, I think Kate is insane :))

[super cool ski instructor]

Flicking the kid's nose like a puppy/kitten works too. I used to do that with the little girl I babysat in HS. The harder she bit me the harder I flickered her nose....she only did that a handful of times. Of course now if you're babysitting, or work in daycare you aren't allowed to do that.

I used to get some parents who "gave me permission to spank their child". I was like..are you insane, I could go to jail!!! :))

[angelicmadrigal]

I used to get some parents who "gave me permission to spank their child". I was like..are you insane, I could go to jail!!! :))

Yeah, you have to be really careful as a childcare provider. If you're liscensed by the state (at leas tin Ohio) you are NOT permitted to engage in ANY for of corporal punnishment even if the parents want you to....as a private person I don't know...but I wouldn't RISK it..

[Dreamy]

She had cats (saw an eppy of home vids before they were married) really hairy cats. I know they are supposed to be "clean" but a germaphobe as she claims to be to have cats seems weird.

I think the 8 babies sucked her rational brain cells from her


Aaah that is odd. I am just wondering if having that many babies at once caused her to become a drill sargent in some ways. She needs to learn to turn off her Mommy mode when she is dealing with her man. Too many women,not just mommies of many babies,forget to treat their man like...well a man. He is almost accepting the role of her 9th child with ease.

[sircharliebrown]

:))

Well, you know my opinion of him & her. I can't stand to watch a man whose wife carries his testicles in her handbag...

I agree! Any good, God-fearing American wife knows the testicles are kept in a jar on the fireplace mantel!

[JenyEliza]

I think Kate is a whiny, neurotic, ungrateful perfectionist who is raising kids that will turn out OK in spite of her multiple neuroses. Several of them might require years of therapy to get over her insane and controlling behaviors, but I still think they stand a chance.

Jon....what an awesome guy. Why he didn't run from the witch before they procreated, I have NO idea. She treats him like absolute DIRT, and he takes it like a panting lapdog. And let's face it, he's now stuck good. With 8 kids, he ain't goin nowhere.

Cara is an absolute charmer, while Maddy is a whiny, neurotic ungrateful perfectionist like her mother. One more temper tantrum and *I'm* climbing through the screen and spanking her good like she deserves. Maybe that would shut miss priss down (for a while anyway).

"The Babies" (who aren't quite babies anymore) are absolutely adorable, but as they grow older we'll see more and more of their older personalities unfold.

Beth, Kate's best friend....what can I say? I need a best friend like her. Spa days spent sipping champagne in oversized bathrobes while my feet are massaged and toenails painted. Is a better way to spend time with your BFF?

And, as a Mom of twins, I gotta ask......where's MY FREE TUMMY TUCK? ::::::::::::::::::hands on hips, tapping foot::::::::::::: :mrgreen:

Did I miss anything important? ;) :eh:

[JenyEliza]

It has got to be the craziest thing I've heard of. Last night she was showing her post delivery stomach and it was just plain gross.

Having more than one baby at the same time will do that to you. Multiple babies stretches your belly beyond all normal (and rational) proportions. You ought to try it sometime. It's tons of fun! ;)

As bad as it looks afterwards, it feels that bad while it's happening to you. Trust me, I know, I have 14 year old twins.

I don't have stretch marks on the belly from the twins, my butt got it worse than the belly in the dept, but I did somehow end up with more belly skin than I had when I started out with the whole pregnant thing. AND....after I had my kids, there were no doctors standing in line to give me a free tummy tuck. I wonder why? Dadgummit.

I guess you gotta wreck your belly worse than twins do to get one of those free.

Doh. :wall: :eh: :))

[Dreamy]

I agree! Any good, God-fearing American wife knows the testicles are kept in a jar on the fireplace mantel!


:)) Only the best for our men.

[bsleplatt]

we hve a runing joke on this subject in our office. Because....she has this thing about tearing her husband to pieces with words. I work in an office of all women...so of course this act is very popular with them.

[Dreamy]

we hve a runing joke on this subject in our office. Because....she has this thing about tearing her husband to pieces with words. I work in an office of all women...so of course this act is very popular with them.

There are women like that too. But then again men let them behave badly and treat them like chumps.

[PhilRocksinOHIO.]

It's so hard for me to believe that this "show" has a following. I found myself laughing out loud when they were reading e-mails from their fans, saying how much they love their show. I never realized that there were that many people out there who seriously needed to get a life. It's about as laughable as all of the other reality shows like "Little People Big World", "17 Kids and Counting", "Half Ton Teen", "Ruby"(another heffer), and the list goes on and on. I'll never understand the fascination with these shows...and that's a good thing.

[XTankLt]

I think Kate is a whiny, neurotic, ungrateful perfectionist who is raising kids that will turn out OK in spite of her multiple neuroses. Several of them might require years of therapy to get over her insane and controlling behaviors, but I still think they stand a chance.

Jon....what an awesome guy. Why he didn't run from the witch before they procreated, I have NO idea. She treats him like absolute DIRT, and he takes it like a panting lapdog. And let's face it, he's now stuck good. With 8 kids, he ain't goin nowhere.

Cara is an absolute charmer, while Maddy is a whiny, neurotic ungrateful perfectionist like her mother. One more temper tantrum and *I'm* climbing through the screen and spanking her good like she deserves. Maybe that would shut miss priss down (for a while anyway).

"The Babies" (who aren't quite babies anymore) are absolutely adorable, but as they grow older we'll see more and more of their older personalities unfold.

Beth, Kate's best friend....what can I say? I need a best friend like her. Spa days spent sipping champagne in oversized bathrobes while my feet are massaged and toenails painted. Is a better way to spend time with your BFF?

And, as a Mom of twins, I gotta ask......where's MY FREE TUMMY TUCK? ::::::::::::::::::hands on hips, tapping foot::::::::::::: :mrgreen:

Did I miss anything important? ;) :eh:


Dang Jeny... spot on. My wife was saying the same exact thing. She bought the DVD's. I caught the show where they go to Hawaii to renew their wedding vows. Kate was still doing the Bridezilla thing. Yikes. :eek:

BTW, my twins are 5 now and in Kindergarten. ;)

[psyko kat]

the only 'reality' show I watch is ''Big Brother''.

[Ballygrl]

the only 'reality' show I watch is ''Big Brother''.

That's my favorite :) I've been a fan since season 1, even though season 1 stunk compared to season 2 and season 3.

[Ballygrl]

It's so hard for me to believe that this "show" has a following. I found myself laughing out loud when they were reading e-mails from their fans, saying how much they love their show. I never realized that there were that many people out there who seriously needed to get a life. It's about as laughable as all of the other reality shows like "Little People Big World", "17 Kids and Counting", "Half Ton Teen", "Ruby"(another heffer), and the list goes on and on. I'll never understand the fascination with these shows...and that's a good thing.

You should see the anti-Kate blogs out there LOL.

[khigh]

That's my favorite :) I've been a fan since season 1, even though season 1 stunk compared to season 2 and season 3.

The only season I really like of Big Brother was Season 6 with Kaysar. I was so infatuated with that guy. And then, I did like the Dick and Danielle team.

[psyko kat]

when is the next season supposed to start,/ I know they have been having auditions for it.

[JenyEliza]

Dang Jeny... spot on. My wife was saying the same exact thing. She bought the DVD's. I caught the show where they go to Hawaii to renew their wedding vows. Kate was still doing the Bridezilla thing. Yikes.

BTW, my twins are 5 now and in Kindergarten. ;)

Enjoy your twins, XTank. The next 10 years are goign to speed by like lighting. Spend less time worrying about work or a clean house/car/garage/basement, than spending time with them. I wish I had. Those are precious years you can't get back.

I always volunteered in all their classrooms and tried to be as involved as I possbily could be--until they started middle school, where the message is definitely "No parents needed--only checkbooks, please leave them at the front offfice, pre-signed. :mrgreen:

My twins just celebrated birthday #14, so we are now in the big year long run-up to the major rite of passage, the Learner's Permit and driving. :eek:

:hand: I've decided I'm just not ready for this. I'm not ready for high school next year. Someone, please stop the world and give me my babies back. :hand: Please. :cry:

Now, as I was saying--take lots and lots of pictures....and make sure you video eveyrthing you can. You'll be glad you did later when they're in high school and you need blackmail material. ;)

I kid, I kid. Enjoy those babies, they grow up WAY too fast.

And...get busy gettin Momma that tummy tuck. She deserves to look unpregnant after 5 years. ;)

Glad you and the Mrs. are a member of the club! ;)
:hug:

Jeny

PS. What are your twins? Girls, boys, boy/girl? Mine are boy/girl.

[newyorkjetsfan]

Any thoughts on the alleged cheating by Jon?

I worried about their children.

[countmein]

Any thoughts on the alleged cheating by Jon?

I worried about their children.

Rumors are flying, aren't they? I heard on the radio that she may be fooling around also. All of it could be true, or none of it.

Part of me feels sorry for them, part of me doesn't. What do you expect when you make your life so public? The children are whom I feel most sorry for.

[angelicmadrigal]

Any thoughts on the alleged cheating by Jon?

I worried about their children.

If it's true that wouldn't surprise me.

[sircharliebrown]

Any thoughts on the alleged cheating by Jon?

I worried about their children.

He's an IDIOT if he did. Can you imagine the child support?

[Mimiheart]

It's still not allowed to advertise another forum.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

http://www.vancouversun.com/News/Kate+Plus+cheating+whom/1600443/story.html

Above article clearly lays out all the current rumors on Jon and Kate. To me, it all sounds a bit thin...but hey...free publicity is free publicity right? :rolleyes:

As far as what type of personalities these two people are...how they react and don't react to circumstances...how they are raising their children...all becomes mute in the face of the fact that they are at least actually 'raising ' their kids. Unlike parents who have hit the news recently who beat, raped and killed their 6 month old baby. That type of parent makes me wanna spew! Kate being a clean freak and Jon being a layed back wanna be cool dude is a far cry from sicko demented parents who out right don't give a damn and only have a child for the extra pay out from the State. :sick::sick:

Every marriage is tested in different ways. This very pubic family is going to have the glare and added bonus of a public spot light upon them. I pray for their children sake that Jon and Kate grow the hell up and take stock in what they do have in their lives and hold onto it for all they are worth.

~Mysty

[RTchoke]

It's still not allowed to advertise another forum.

The link doesn't go where it says it goes either.(J/K forum). Don't click on it.

[newyorkjetsfan]

The season premiere of Jon & Kate Plus 8 aired on Monday.

They talked about the struggles and issues surrounding their marriage.

I hoped that things would improve between them.

[sgdp]

When I was nearly 3 years old, my momma threatened to spank me. She stretched me across her knee, and I defiantly told her, "You can spank me...but I won't cry."

She never, ever spanked me.

I always thought it was because I took away the motive...the prize. :mrgreen:

[traditional_woman]

I watched the interview out of curiosity, and it looks like they loathe each other. At the bday party you could feel the awkwardness they had towards one another. It looks like if they do stay together, it will be for the kids and the kids only, which they have admitted to.

I am not excusing Jon, if he did cheat, but i could understand how he resorted to that with her being his mommy....i mean, wife.

[super cool ski instructor]

I watched last night.

You know what...I hear alot of people making excuses for Jon's behavior because of the way she treated him. I'm sorry....but no. You do not blame someone if their spouse cheats on them...nobody forced that man to have an affair. Yes she treats him in a crappy way....but that does not excuse infidelity.

And I love how absent he was when planning the kid's party....nice dad. :rolleyes:

[JenyEliza]

This season's show should be called

"Jon & Kate, plus 10" (8 kids, new girlfriend, new boyfriend).

This family has self-destructed on national TV, due in large part to the fact that their family has become a money-making business.

Kate has pursued her own agenda (ie, books, autograph and speaking tours), leaving Jon at home to mind the kids. This has understandably lead to resentment on his part--and he has responded by finding a stand-in for his wife.

Both of these parents need to get their acts together--and quickly. They need to lose the others in their lives and work as a team to save the marriage and family.

Otherwise, they kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

[GOP_FAN]

I watched last night.

You know what...I hear alot of people making excuses for Jon's behavior because of the way she treated him. I'm sorry....but no. You do not blame someone if their spouse cheats on them...nobody forced that man to have an affair. Yes she treats him in a crappy way....but that does not excuse infidelity.

And I love how absent he was when planning the kid's party....nice dad. :rolleyes:

Thank you!

They are trashing Kate all over the net. Yes, poor, poor Jon. Well now, he's had to put up with a wife who is highly organized, who is very articulate, and has managed to turn an otherwise overwhelming financial disaster into a profitable business, while doing an admirable job of raising her children. This is a very smart woman, she's very smart, because of Mom, they have advantages that others, especially those in a similar situation would only dream of. People, well honestly, I don't place much stock in the general publics intelligence, but a pretty substantial number of people seem to be very jealous of this woman, because she's able to make some money from her unique situation. Oh, and let us not forget that despite having given birth to 8 children she's in very good shape, and is meticulous about her appearance, that seems to annoy people too. You'd think Jon would be glad :confused: She's one of those people who's very energetic, which works to her advantage for obvious reasons. The family eats only organic foods, Kate cooked organic meals for them ahead of time, enough for every day, when she went to the hospital for a tummy tuck, definately cosmetic but you can imagine the need here, Jon was all for it.

I try not to watch too many reality shows, I get hooked. I watch "NYC Housewives" and "Jon and Kate Plus 8", but I've really enjoyed watching the various challenges, and the way they raise their children, they go on trips, they do special things with them at home, and give each child individual time, it's really heart warming. Well it was...

I watched the controversial season opener last night, I must say, there is one huge rift there. Kate prepared, and did the work for the Sextuplet's fifth birthday alone, Jon apparently needed a weekend 'alone'. She was interviewed alone, and said she is confused by his behavior. He's obviously not happy, but she said she didn't know what to do to make it better. Not ver batim, but that's pretty much it. Jon did show up for the party, alone, in his sporty new car, that he didn't consult her about before buying, and he seemed more like a visitor than a parent. His daughter said to him at one point "Daddy, don't leave so much anymore, ok?" he said he had to leave sometimes to do work.

He's very unhappy, I don't think he wants to be married anymore, he said "it was like being in prison" I don't know if he meant the paparazzi or his family life. He doesn't seem to be committed anymore, I think he's missing his single life, perhaps he's in love with somebody else. I do know he's not as caring or as engaged with his family as he once was, it's written all over his face.

I'm laying odds, this will not end up happily ever after. I think the kids are very lucky to have a strong, dedicated Mother. As for Jon, he sure liked the snowboarding trips, the new car, the new house, and playing WII.

[GOP_FAN]

I watched the interview out of curiosity, and it looks like they loathe each other. At the bday party you could feel the awkwardness they had towards one another. It looks like if they do stay together, it will be for the kids and the kids only, which they have admitted to.

I am not excusing Jon, if he did cheat, but i could understand how he resorted to that with her being his mommy....i mean, wife.

He's an adult, he should act like one.

[Hoobeedoo Bejesus]

This season's show should be called

"Jon & Kate, plus 10" (8 kids, new girlfriend, new boyfriend).

This family has self-destructed on national TV, due in large part to the fact that their family has become a money-making business.

Kate has pursued her own agenda (ie, books, autograph and speaking tours), leaving Jon at home to mind the kids. This has understandably lead to resentment on his part--and he has responded by finding a stand-in for his wife.

Both of these parents need to get their acts together--and quickly. They need to lose the others in their lives and work as a team to save the marriage and family.

Otherwise, they kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

Why?

That would not make near as much money.

[roger teekell]

He's an adult, he should act like one.

Yes he is...

And she should treat him like one..

[CaptainPike]

My wife has started watching this terrible show.

I don't pay much attention to it, but Kate is a bitch and John should leave her.

[super cool ski instructor]

Yes he is...

And she should treat him like one..

Yes she should...but surely the fact that she treats him badly does not justify his passive aggressive way of dealing with it.

"My wife is mean...so instead of having the balls to actually suggest therapy...or separation..I am just going to cheat on her....yeah...that'll show her..."

What a wonderful thing he did....that will forever be around online, or what have you, for his kids to one day see.

What a man! :neutral:

[countmein]

I said this a long time ago, in this thread I believe, that I told my hubby that anytime he thought I was being a bitch to turn this program on and it would bring him to his knees thanking God that he ended up with me. It could be a lot worse. There is a difference between being a little bitching now and then and living the bitch lifestyle.

That being said......as a strong, independent woman I have to say that the way Kate treats Jon is horrible. Some times the way I have seen her treat her children is questionable to me. If you are going to have a melt down everytime a kid does what kids do, maybe you should have rethought the large family BEFORE you paid for it. My almost four year old cut a huge chunk of her bangs off (to the scalp) a couple of months ago. Could you even imagine what would happen if one of these little girls did the same? At least it would be recorded for the therapy sessions that might be happening later on in life.

On the other hand, Jon should act like an adult and stand up for himself. That could get tricky when you live your life out in front of the cameras. BTW, going out and buying a new car without discussing with your spouse does not make you a man. Actually it is quite childish. I guess I would understand if he actually left, got himself out of the situation, even though I don't agree with most divorces. What is inexcusable is having an affair, especiallay knowing that it will be printed in every rag across the country. My main concern is for these children. Good Lord. I hope the younger ones are too young to "get" the publicity this is getting. Unfortunately, I think the older two, at the age of nine, are probably well aware of it. A little tip for the Gosselins, use some of that money that you are taking all this highly publicized "family" trips on, to get some good counseling so you might be able to salavage the family for future trips.

[traditional_woman]

I for one said that there's no excuse for cheating, BUT could understand how he could do it(if it's true) with the wife he has. I know of wives who withold sex for several months, either out of spite or b/c they don't like sex, then become surprised that their hubby got some on the side. Again, it's not an excuse, but i can kinda understand how they got to that point. Just b/c you can find the reasoning in something logical does not mean that you added your stamp of approval.

I only watched about a handful of the series. I couldn't stomach to watch each and every episode.

[traditional_woman]

I said this a long time ago, in this thread I believe, that I told my hubby that anytime he thought I was being a bitch to turn this program on and it would bring him to his knees thanking God that he ended up with me. It could be a lot worse. There is a difference between being a little bitching now and then and living the bitch lifestyle.

That being said......as a strong, independent woman I have to say that the way Kate treats Jon is horrible. Some times the way I have seen her treat her children is questionable to me. If you are going to have a melt down everytime a kid does what kids do, maybe you should have rethought the large family BEFORE you paid for it. My almost four year old cut a huge chunk of her bangs off (to the scalp) a couple of months ago. Could you even imagine what would happen if one of these little girls did the same? At least it would be recorded for the therapy sessions that might be happening later on in life.

On the other hand, Jon should act like an adult and stand up for himself. That could get tricky when you live your life out in front of the cameras. BTW, going out and buying a new car without discussing with your spouse does not make you a man. Actually it is quite childish. I guess I would understand if he actually left, got himself out of the situation, even though I don't agree with most divorces. What is inexcusable is having an affair, especiallay knowing that it will be printed in every rag across the country. My main concern is for these children. Good Lord. I hope the younger ones are too young to "get" the publicity this is getting. Unfortunately, I think the older two, at the age of nine, are probably well aware of it. A little tip for the Gosselins, use some of that money that you are taking all this highly publicized "family" trips on, to get some good counseling so you might be able to salavage the family for future trips.

The smart thing to do would be to shut down the reality show, but unfortunately I think they need it(money) for survival at this point. It looks like they bit off more than they can chew. It also sounds like jon didn't mind the publicity until the scandal hit. Did he not know they would tape the good with the bad, including a possible affair?

[GOP_FAN]

I've always hated piling on, and people are definitely piling on Kate. I find it interesting that women, in particular, are very quick to condemn Kate G. here, and seem to be much more considerate, and sympathetic to Jon.

See, they have photos of Jon leaving the residence of the 23 year old he's purported to be involved with, and he was leaving in the wee hours of the morning. They have other photos of her scantily dressed, sunbathing at Jon's, OH YEAH, and Kate's place. that sounds like more than just talking was going on. On the other hand, no pics of Kate with the bodyguard, just rumors, yet, people lump them together, liike they've both been caught. Uh, no, he was caught by the paparazzi, as for her, it's pure speculation.

Another thing, she is not that horrible to him, they've always related to each other that way, he's even joked about it, in fact, he still hasn't said anything about being treated poorly, he was caught cheating, then said Kate was away too often, promoting the book.

[GOP_FAN]

I for one said that there's no excuse for cheating, BUT could understand how he could do it(if it's true) with the wife he has. I know of wives who withold sex for several months, either out of spite or b/c they don't like sex, then become surprised that their hubby got some on the side. Again, it's not an excuse, but i can kinda understand how they got to that point. Just b/c you can find the reasoning in something logical does not mean that you added your stamp of approval.

I only watched about a handful of the series. I couldn't stomach to watch each and every episode.

Oh but you are excusing it, by saying you can understand it. What does 'with the wife he has' mean?

[GOP_FAN]

My wife has started watching this terrible show.

I don't pay much attention to it, but Kate is a bitch and John should leave her.

Sounds like you have strong opinions about how women should behave.

[GOP_FAN]

Yes he is...

And she should treat him like one..

Perhaps if he'd act like one....

He hasn't been mistreated, the TV show picks up a squabble, and makes it seem as though he's constantly badgered, I'm sure it's advantageous for Bravo TV to promote a disagreement, rather than a normal conversation about rising crime, or poor postal service. I mean how fun would it be to watch Jon and Kate watching TV together?

They are taping for hours, but only air a small portion. I seriously doubt it's in proper context. I'm sure he was well aware of who he was marrying, and I haven't heard him complain about the way he's treated. Wouldn't he be the one to complain if she were mistreating him?

[newyorkjetsfan]

Almost 10 million viewers watched the season premiere, and TLC said that they will continue to air the show this season.

[angelicmadrigal]

Another thing, she is not that horrible to him, they've always related to each other that way, he's even joked about it, in fact, he still hasn't said anything about being treated poorly, he was caught cheating, then said Kate was away too often, promoting the book.

However you see it, she OPENLY (on the show) has admitted that she nagged him into having more children after the twins were born. He has openly admitted he didn't really want more children after the twins. I think he has a LOT of resentment towards her and RIGHTFULLY so. This is pretty much what happens when a married couple (or any couple) starts having two different sets of expectations about their relationship. Some things (like the number of children you want/are comfortable with) are a BIG DEAL, and compromising on those things can lead to a lot of anger and resentment.

[angelicmadrigal]

Almost 10 million viewers watched the season premiere, and TLC said that they will continue to air the show this season.

I'll admit it, I watched it.

The kids are just so adorable I can't help myself.

[countmein]

I've always hated piling on, and people are definitely piling on Kate. I find it interesting that women, in particular, are very quick to condemn Kate G. here, and seem to be much more considerate, and sympathetic to Jon.

See, they have photos of Jon leaving the residence of the 23 year old he's purported to be involved with, and he was leaving in the wee hours of the morning. They have other photos of her scantily dressed, sunbathing at Jon's, OH YEAH, and Kate's place. that sounds like more than just talking was going on. On the other hand, no pics of Kate with the bodyguard, just rumors, yet, people lump them together, liike they've both been caught. Uh, no, he was caught by the paparazzi, as for her, it's pure speculation.

Another thing, she is not that horrible to him, they've always related to each other that way, he's even joked about it, in fact, he still hasn't said anything about being treated poorly, he was caught cheating, then said Kate was away too often, promoting the book.

First off, I want to say something.........my name is countmein and I am a lot like Kate. There, I said it. I actually find myself acting like her at times. Because of my childhood, which I am not going to get into here, I am a very strong and very independant woman. I put myself in a position that I am responsible for everything that has anything to do with my family. I find myself at times treating my very laid back, very immature, somewhat irresponsible hubby like a child. I catch myself and I back up. It is not that I hate this woman, or enjoy picking on her, it is just that I see me in her, only magnified and I have learned over time that this approach to life does not work.

Now with that said, I think that the majority of people feel for Jon because of the way he is treated, which IS poorly. What if the shoe was on the other foot? What if Jon was treating Kate like a child, nit-picking everything that she did, belittling her, berating her? I am sure that most women would be in an uproar. I feel for Kate because she acts as if she is overwhelmed by her life. There is a lot of resentment between these two. She resents him because she feels like everything is left to her doing and he resents her because of the way that he is treated. They need some counseling and fast. This marriage is self-destructing quickly.

I don't think that anyone has said that the affair was the way to go. I know that I sure didn't. I personally distain weak people who find what they need outside of a marriage instead of looking inside of themselves. Once again, he needs counseling, she needs counseling, they need counseling. And as far as him joking about it, I used to joke about the way my first spouse treated me too. Of course he was beating the snot out of me a lot of the time, and when he wasn't beating the snot out of me, he was belittling me, manipulating me, and beating me up emotionally. But that's just the way it was, right? Joking about it, trying to laugh it off, or making it no big deal is a defense mechanism, pure and simple.

I am sure that this woman loves her children. I may not agree on everything that she does, but they are her children and she will have to pay the consequences if and when the time comes. I think that she is overwhelmed and instead of getting some help emotionally, because she doesn't seem to be getting it from her spouse, she is just trying to bulldoze over everyone and everything. She needs some couseling to atttain some coping skills that doesn't leave everyone around her bruised and bloody. I am sure that he loves his children also. But he seems to be going through a "me, me, me" stage and it is hurting his children. He needs to grow up and start thinking of someone else besides himself. He needs some counseling to attain some skills that helps him grow up and take care of himself in a healthy way, not a way that will leave his life and the lives of those around him in ruin and destruction.

As far as "this is the way it has always been", that is a cop out and it still doesn't make it right. I have watched this show on and off from the beginning. You don't think that their behavior has escalated over the past couple of years? I have seen it. From what I have seen, and I could be wrong, but they have gotten worse over the years. Their strengths have become their weaknesses. Yes, she is a strong, intelligent woman, but now she has become a bully. Yes, he is laid back and goes with the flow, but now he just seems plain lazy. This very public life seems to have gotten to the both of them. She seems to have taken complete responsibility for everything and that is a lot for any one person to deal with without help. I am sure that she gets thousands of letters and e-mails asking why she puts up with his lack of help, his lack of interest, his immaturity. Just the same, I am sure that he gets thousands of letters and e-mails asking why he puts up being treated the way he is treated. This cannot be helping either of them. Like someone else stated earlier, the best thing for their marriage, for their family, is to pull the plug on this show. But since that doesn't seem feasible for them financially, I would recommend that they get to a good counselor and fast.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

First off, I want to say something.........my name is countmein and I am a lot like Kate. There, I said it. I actually find myself acting like her at times. Because of my childhood, which I am not going to get into here, I am a very strong and very independant woman. I put myself in a position that I am responsible for everything that has anything to do with my family. I find myself at times treating my very laid back, very immature, somewhat irresponsible hubby like a child. I catch myself and I back up. It is not that I hate this woman, or enjoy picking on her, it is just that I see me in her, only magnified and I have learned over time that this approach to life does not work.

Now with that said, I think that the majority of people feel for Jon because of the way he is treated, which IS poorly. What if the shoe was on the other foot? What if Jon was treating Kate like a child, nit-picking everything that she did, belittling her, berating her? I am sure that most women would be in an uproar. I feel for Kate because she acts as if she is overwhelmed by her life. There is a lot of resentment between these two. She resents him because she feels like everything is left to her doing and he resents her because of the way that he is treated. They need some counseling and fast. This marriage is self-destructing quickly.

I don't think that anyone has said that the affair was the way to go. I know that I sure didn't. I personally distain weak people who find what they need outside of a marriage instead of looking inside of themselves. Once again, he needs counseling, she needs counseling, they need counseling. And as far as him joking about it, I used to joke about the way my first spouse treated me too. Of course he was beating the snot out of me a lot of the time, and when he wasn't beating the snot out of me, he was belittling me, manipulating me, and beating me up emotionally. But that's just the way it was, right? Joking about it, trying to laugh it off, or making it no big deal is a defense mechanism, pure and simple.

I am sure that this woman loves her children. I may not agree on everything that she does, but they are her children and she will have to pay the consequences if and when the time comes. I think that she is overwhelmed and instead of getting some help emotionally, because she doesn't seem to be getting it from her spouse, she is just trying to bulldoze over everyone and everything. She needs some couseling to atttain some coping skills that doesn't leave everyone around her bruised and bloody. I am sure that he loves his children also. But he seems to be going through a "me, me, me" stage and it is hurting his children. He needs to grow up and start thinking of someone else besides himself. He needs some counseling to attain some skills that helps him grow up and take care of himself in a healthy way, not a way that will leave his life and the lives of those around him in ruin and destruction.

As far as "this is the way it has always been", that is a cop out and it still doesn't make it right. I have watched this show on and off from the beginning. You don't think that their behavior has escalated over the past couple of years? I have seen it. From what I have seen, and I could be wrong, but they have gotten worse over the years. Their strengths have become their weaknesses. Yes, she is a strong, intelligent woman, but now she has become a bully. Yes, he is laid back and goes with the flow, but now he just seems plain lazy. This very public life seems to have gotten to the both of them. She seems to have taken complete responsibility for everything and that is a lot for any one person to deal with without help. I am sure that she gets thousands of letters and e-mails asking why she puts up with his lack of help, his lack of interest, his immaturity. Just the same, I am sure that he gets thousands of letters and e-mails asking why he puts up being treated the way he is treated. This cannot be helping either of them. Like someone else stated earlier, the best thing for their marriage, for their family, is to pull the plug on this show. But since that doesn't seem feasible for them financially, I would recommend that they get to a good counselor and fast.

Wow! Well thought out...Well posted...and Many Well placed points on this couple getting some counseling ASAP! Well done M' Dear...Well done! :clap::clap:

~Mysty

[5thIDSoldier]

My wife has started watching this terrible show.

I don't pay much attention to it, but Kate is a bitch and John should leave her.

I tend to think the same way, but can you immagine the child support payment he would have to make? I think in this case it's cheaper to keep her.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

Admittedly, I don't watch the show Jon & Kate plus 8. In fact, it wasn't until this show was brought to these boards that I even knew what in the heck Jon & Kate plus 8 was. :redface:

Having watched a few You Tube episodes that were brought up in another thread...I came to the quick judgement of A: Kate is a type A personality. B: Jon is a type B to B/C personality. C: All 8 kids are allowed to pretty much do and say as they wish because people (read t.v. viewing audience) thinks it's cute. My personal opinion...those kids are BRATS....and need some strict discipline in their lives if they are to survive in the world their Parents have created for them.

Another opinion that I know won't be popular...Money alone does not equal good parenting. Having a huge MCMansion alone isn't being a good parent...Sending kids off to a good school in and of itself is not being a good parent. Good parents may have some of those elements I mention...but first and foremost, a good parent is involved in the personal and emotional lives of their children. Vested in the day to day growth of their child/children. Having a separate and personal relationship with each child that is founded and rooted in love and the perfected want for a better life then you may have had. It's a thankless, soul sucking job that should be taken with serious intentions and dedication. Having said that...I truly feel Jon and Kate have their hearts rooted in the right place...but are making a muck out of the day to day implementation of said intentions.

As far as Jon not 'wanting' more children after the twins...Bull pucky! Invetro is expensive...and if he didn't want more kids...nature would have had his back. Unless we all want to think Jon some weak piece of crud that has to bend to Kate's every whim in order to take daily breath? I don't see him as that weak...I just see him as immature and not wanting to take equal responsibility for both their choices. Gee...kinda has a theme here don't ya think?

Kate being over bearing? Yeah...and? She's a young woman with 8 kids...what should she be? Laid back and lazy? She'd get eaten alive if that were the case! :rolleyes: She's type A with little to no support? Why? Becuase she does with 8 children what most women can barely accomplish with 2 to 3 kids. I call that jealousy. Of course women are going to pick her apart...it's what they do to an over achiever.

I will totally back up what Countmein posted. This couple needs to get on the same page in their marriage, with their kids and in their individual lives asap! Counseling would do a world of good for both of them. Both need to take a big people pill and relaize that what appears to be parenting and what is parenting are two totally different worlds.

Having a clean house and clean kids is nice...but does not instantly make one a good parent. Having cool places to go and neat people to meet does not ensure your childs healthy development, or give them some great foundation to grow on within this harsh world. Having loving parents who are your safe harbor...that you receive love and consistency with..who teaches you true morals and ethics to live by..now that's the top prize folks...that's the big banana! ;)

~Mysty

[super cool ski instructor]

You Rock On Mysty!!!!!

I concur 100%

[countmein]

You know Mysty, you brought up something that I wasn't going to touch, but since you brought it up, well here goes. I watched part of the show the other night and some of the children's behavior was completely inexcusable. The boys were left in a room on their own and they were hitting and kicking each other. Now, don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with boys rough housing. Actually I think it is good for them. But the kicking, hitting and calling each other names is rude and a sign of a complete lack of respect for each other. Jon laughed it off saying that it cracks him up and that he just throws weapons in the mix for them to use just to see what happens. :eek: The children are seeing the total lack of respect each of their parents have for the other and they are copying that behavior in their relationships with each other. I have also noticed that the two older sisters are a bit on the bossy side. Don't get me wrong, they are cute kids, but their behavior leaves a little to be desired.

[super cool ski instructor]

Oh yes...the children may be cute...but they are some of the most misbehaved kids.

I remember the episode where Jon and Kate took the kids to see their new house...and Kate tried to get the kids to sit down so she can tell them they will not be allowed in mommy and daddy's bedroom......and I swear the kids were like little monkeys running all over the place and hanging all over each other.
And they hit each other, and kick each other, and knock each other over, all while screaming in each other's faces.

All the while, Jon and Kate do nothing more than put them in time-out. I think we can all agree that time-out does not work for these kids.

I think Jon and Kate are so overwhelmed by the fact that they are clearly outnumbered in that house....and that is something that is going to damage those kids.

Stop writing books Kate....stop having affairs Jon...and parent your kids!!!!!

[RTchoke]

You know Mysty, you brought up something that I wasn't going to touch, but since you brought it up, well here goes. I watched part of the show the other night and some of the children's behavior was completely inexcusable. The boys were left in a room on their own and they were hitting and kicking each other. Now, don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with boys rough housing. Actually I think it is good for them. But the kicking, hitting and calling each other names is rude and a sign of a complete lack of respect for each other. Jon laughed it off saying that it cracks him up and that he just throws weapons in the mix for them to use just to see what happens. :eek: The children are seeing the total lack of respect each of their parents have for the other and they are copying that behavior in their relationships with each other. I have also noticed that the two older sisters are a bit on the bossy side. Don't get me wrong, they are cute kids, but their behavior leaves a little to be desired.

Oh Lord love a duck, there are times I wish I could scream and be heard through the TV telling somebody, ANYBODY, to have Maddy watch her sassy little mouth.

That would NOT be allowed in our house. Sass talk is a bigger offense than most things around here. Disrespectful to the max.

Now, I do not watch the show all the time and I sometimes catch it on a re-run later in the week and sometimes not at all and mostly it's just to watch the train wreck happening before my eyes. I should get a time out for that. :mrgreen:

They had the episodes running pretty much non stop to lead up to the big ta-da show on Monday which I have not seen yet. If you watched those shows you could see the transformation of everyone, kids and parents, over the years. I saw very little happen for the better.

Kate - cut the shrew bitch stuff off now. We know you have a lot on your plate with eight kids. We also know, thanks to TLC, you have hired help now. Cut the tours and books signings off for awhile and focus on your family. If that is truly what you want. Hug your kids once in awhile. Let them get dirty, wear clothes that don't match what the others are wearing and chill out!! Do you not see what you are doing to them? They are becoming as neurotic about some things as you are. No child should come absolutely unglued screaming for a paper towel because he got a spot of paint no bigger than a fly on his head. :confused: Focus girl and be grateful for what you have.

Jon - Get over yourself. Yes, you got married young, you missed your "party time". Big whoop. :rolleyes: Have a mid-life crisis later, now is not the time. You have eight children that need you. Man up and talk with your wife (Kate, shut up and let him talk :razz:). Work on what you both need to do to better your relationship. Acting out will not solve anything. It doesn't work for the kids, it's not going to work for you.

Both of you...........cut off the cameras. Stay home and get some counseling. Be a FAMILY, not a business.

I'm done for now. :mrgreen:

[cygfighter]

Is it weird that whenever I hear of this show, I'm thinking of that horrific octomom?

[angelicmadrigal]

Oh yes...the children may be cute...but they are some of the most misbehaved kids.


Actually, they aren't really that bad, but then I work with about 25-30 kids between the ages of 2 1/2-6 years old so I see a lot worse.

[super cool ski instructor]

Actually, they aren't really that bad, but then I work with about 25-30 kids between the ages of 2 1/2-6 years old so I see a lot worse.

I also have experience working with kids.....6 years...all age groups.
The kids I had knew better than to behave that way :))

[PhilRocksinOHIO.]

I wonder just how long it will be before Dr. Phil gets involved with this? He seems to thrive on celebrities in crisis. I give it about a month.

[angelicmadrigal]

I also have experience working with kids.....6 years...all age groups.
The kids I had knew better than to behave that way :))

Actually, I'm EXTREMELY strict, I just have seen worse behavior is what I'm saying.

[countmein]

I wonder just how long it will be before Dr. Phil gets involved with this? He seems to thrive on celebrities in crisis. I give it about a month.

Why not, I think they have already been on Oprah.

[CaptainPike]

Sounds like you have strong opinions about how women should behave.

Even if I had no opinion at all of women, it's clear that Kate is a bitch.

[CaptainPike]

I haven't watched the show much, but from what I see, John works full time and Kate stays home with the kids. Is that correct?

[Frau Blucher]

The only season I really like of Big Brother was Season 6 with Kaysar. I was so infatuated with that guy. And then, I did like the Dick and Danielle team.

OMG...I had a thing for him too!! And I just loved Janelle and Howie too!!!

I loved Dick, but Danielle got a little too snotty for my taste!! I was thrilled when he won!!

[super cool ski instructor]

I haven't watched the show much, but from what I see, John works full time and Kate stays home with the kids. Is that correct?

Kate writes books and goes on book tours.

Jon used to do IT work, but was fired around 3 years ago for misusing company resources. He has not worked since.

Besides the money they get from the show, Kate is the breadwinner in that family.

[newyorkjetsfan]

Jon used to do IT work, but was fired around 3 years ago for misusing company resources. He has not worked since.



I thought he quit his job to be with the kids.

[super cool ski instructor]

I guess it depends on who you believe.

He says he quit to be with the kids. His former boss said he was fired.

These days I tend to not believe what Jon says.......

[Buffalo]

I guess it depends on who you believe.

He says he quit to be with the kids. His former boss said he was fired.

These days I tend to not believe what Jon says.......
I wouldn't believe anything you hear from either of them or see on that show. At this point, if they had any sense they would stop the whole piece of garbage for the sake of those kids. So sad.

[super cool ski instructor]

I wouldn't believe anything you hear from either of them or see on that show. At this point, if they had any sense they would stop the whole piece of garbage for the sake of those kids. So sad.

I agree.

I'm just saying that his boss has nothing to gain by lying about why Jon stopped working.

So in a "he said, he said" situation...I tend to believe the boss a tad more that Mr. "I didn't cheat on my wife......just ignore those pics of me coming out of my girlfriends house at 6 in the morning :shifty: "

[Buffalo]

I agree.

I'm just saying that his boss has nothing to gain by lying about why Jon stopped working.

So in a "he said, he said" situation...I tend to believe the boss a tad more that Mr. "I didn't cheat on my wife......just ignore those pics of me coming out of my girlfriends house at 6 in the morning :shifty: "
Given the weight of evidence, I'd say you are prolly right.

[newyorkjetsfan]

More problems.

The Pennsylvania Department of Labor says that it will investigate if the show violates child labor laws.

[rosiegirl]

I've seen these show one time and wow, was it really boring.........

[super cool ski instructor]

More problems.

The Pennsylvania Department of Labor says that it will investigate if the show violates child labor laws.

I think they are stretching a bit.

By no means would I ever defend what Jon and Kate are doing to their kids.....but their kids are not working by being on the show. They are just living their everyday lives. They just happen to have a film crew taping them.

[RogerDodger]

I've never watched a single episode of this show, but I have been following some of the latest news reports on it.

Thought this was intersting/funny/sad.

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/report-kate-gosselin-gave-jon-a-5-a-day-allowance/23056?nc

I think he really should leave her. I KNOW I would.

[super cool ski instructor]

LOL...not to take sides here...but Jon is no prince himself.

[GOP_FAN]

LOL...not to take sides here...but Jon is no prince himself.

It would appear you are correct:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedishrag/2009/06/jon-gosselin-was-with-his-girlfriend-on-kates-birthday-thats-low.html
Jon Gosselin was with his girlfriend on Kate's birthday?!

Goss-blog_0 On tonight’s episode of "Jon & Kate Plus 8,” Kate Gosselin celebrates her birthday with her kids and takes a trip to Charm City Cakes.

So where was Jon Gosselin? You'll never guess.

"I went out to Utah for, like, five days," he says. "I just wanted to get back out there and ride with my friends. It just happened to fall on Kate's birthday."

But he didn’t mention that Deanna Hummel, the 23-year-old teacher with whom Jon allegedly had a three-month affair was also there. Us Weekly http://www.usmagazine.com/news/kate-gosselin-spends-birthday-with-kids-while-jon-hangs-with-girlfriend-200975 reports that the two were together at a Spring Gruv party at the Canyon in Utah, smack dab on Kate's March 28 birthday.

TLC is so thrilled about last week's premiere getting 9.8 million viewers (a record for the network), they’ve ordered another 40-episode season.

I have a feeling that Jon has fallen in love with somebody else, it seems pretty obvious, or in lust, whatever. He will end the marriage, mark my words, it's written all over his face. He said he felt like he was in prison during the season opener. He knows he's being followed, and closely scrutinized by the paparazzi, but he still can't resist hanging with the girlfriend.

Yeah, no saint. Kate may not have spoken to him in a nice tone, and she may seem harsh, but she's not openly carrying on an affair during 'alone' time.

[countmein]

There are worse things in a marriage than just an affair. I wish all my first spouse did was sleep around. Instead he caused a miscarriage, cracked a couple of ribs, damaged my hearing for life, broke my wrist, almost threw me down a flight of stairs, knocked me out a couple of times, constantly told me that I was worthless, no one else would want me, kept me from studying because I was stupid, ect..

Like I said before, there is is no need to take sides here, there is plenty of "fault" to go around. Neither of them are perfect. Who is? Jon is wrong for sleeping around. There is no excuse. But Kate is just as wrong for the verbal and emotional abuse. I have experienced it first hand and I know what it is when I see it. Once again, if Jon was treating Kate the way that she treats him, the feminists and women groups in this country would be in an uproar. But because it is a woman being abusive, it is not taken as seriously. After all, Jon is a man, he should be able to "take it". :rolleyes:

Like I stated before, they both need counseling, as individuals and as a couple. They had better find someone who gives multi-family member discounts, because if this keeps up, the kids are going to need some help also.

[super cool ski instructor]

I am not really taking sides here....however I will say this...Kate does verbally abuse him. But you know what? Is his mouth duct taped shut? He sits there like a bump on a log and takes it from her...and then does the passive aggressive thing and cheats on her. Growing up needs to be done on both sides of this.

[RTchoke]

I am not really taking sides here....however I will say this...Kate does verbally abuse him. But you know what? Is his mouth duct taped shut? He sits there like a bump on a log and takes it from her...and then does the passive aggressive thing and cheats on her. Growing up needs to be done on both sides of this.

^ ^ ^

This.

You nailed it.

[5thIDSoldier]

I think they are more of an example of how not to run a marriage. I run a class for new marrieds in our church and they really are the poster children of how not to be for me....

[PhilRocksinOHIO.]

Wonder how long it will be until the show is called "Jon and Kate Aren't Doin' So Great?"

[super cool ski instructor]

Wonder how long it will be until the show is called "Jon and Kate Aren't Doin' So Great?"

:))

There was a special on E! called "Jon and Kate: Twisted Fate" dun Dun DUN!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JenyEliza]

It would appear you are correct:


I have a feeling that Jon has fallen in love with somebody else, it seems pretty obvious, or in lust, whatever. He will end the marriage, mark my words, it's written all over his face. He said he felt like he was in prison during the season opener. He knows he's being followed, and closely scrutinized by the paparazzi, but he still can't resist hanging with the girlfriend.

Yeah, no saint. Kate may not have spoken to him in a nice tone, and she may seem harsh, but she's not openly carrying on an affair during 'alone' time.

Do we actually know this? There is talk that she has been carrying on an affair with her bodyguard, a man named Steve Neild who heads up her security team when she travels.

Although she has officially denied it, I have seen pictures of her with him, where it seems obvious she's quite happy spending time around him vs. how unhappy she seems around Jon.

Aunt Jodi and Uncle Kevin have discussed (in interviews) that Jon suspected Kate was cheating with Neild long before he started dating the teacher, and in fact, Kate gave him permission to cheat. Apparently Kate came up with a "contract" between the two of them that allowed Jon to have girlfriends if he stayed on the show and pretended all was well and normal on the Gosselin household. He currently bunks in a room over their garage when Kate is home.

There's a lot more to meet the eye here....Jon has wanted out of the show for some time, according to Kate's brother and sister in law (Aunt Jodi and Uncle Kevin).

I think we'll have to wait until this all plays out before we know the truth.

[super cool ski instructor]

I don't really think Jon wants out of the show like he tries to portray. He seems to enjoy all of the free travelling, cute little sportscars, and not actually having to have a job.

[RTchoke]

I watched the new show Monday. Even though they had Mady between them they seemed to not be as hostile as they were last week.

Whatsupwitdat?

[countmein]

I watched the new show Monday. Even though they had Mady between them they seemed to not be as hostile as they were last week.

Whatsupwitdat?

Unfortunately, I think those kids are going to spend a lot of time "in the middle" between their parents' hostility towards one another.

[RTchoke]

Unfortunately, I think those kids are going to spend a lot of time "in the middle" between their parents' hostility towards one another.

I do believe you are right.

[angelicmadrigal]

There's a lot more to meet the eye here....Jon has wanted out of the show for some time, according to Kate's brother and sister in law (Aunt Jodi and Uncle Kevin).



He's also openly said he didn't want more kids, but he let his wife nag him into a second round of fertility treatments, and got WAY WAY more than he bargained for. So I can really understand the resentment there. At least it is centered on the mother and not the kids.

[GOP_FAN]

He's also openly said he didn't want more kids, but he let his wife nag him into a second round of fertility treatments, and got WAY WAY more than he bargained for. So I can really understand the resentment there. At least it is centered on the mother and not the kids.

THEY got more than they bargained for, Jon has said he does NOT blame Kate, that he agreed to the pregnancy after the twins, they both wanted one more, the odds of having multiples, from what I understand are astronomical, even with in vitro.

I don't understand the piling on here. Kate gets testy, she's said she knows she's mistakes, the jump to 'emotional abuse' comes only from your own interpretations. The same can be said for the kids, they have the cameras following them occasionally, they are not being filmed all the time. There was one tabloid phsyc/reporter, on "Extra" I believe, who said the kids are 'suffering' because of the parents. What a joke, I see no sign of any suffering. The kids have college funds, a huge house, private schools, all because Mom and Dad do the show. Now many will say, "They need the love of two parents! It's exploitation!" Well, uh, I think they do have 2 loving parents, and both parents have said they are doing this for their children, and they will be well provided for. They aren't asking for my tax dollars, which is a refreshing. They are doing fine, people resent those who make that kind of money.
Then there's the dismissive attitude toward the affair, I don't get it. I feel like I'm back in the 50s here.

[GOP_FAN]

Do we actually know this? There is talk that she has been carrying on an affair with her bodyguard, a man named Steve Neild who heads up her security team when she travels.

Although she has officially denied it, I have seen pictures of her with him, where it seems obvious she's quite happy spending time around him vs. how unhappy she seems around Jon.

Aunt Jodi and Uncle Kevin have discussed (in interviews) that Jon suspected Kate was cheating with Neild long before he started dating the teacher, and in fact, Kate gave him permission to cheat. Apparently Kate came up with a "contract" between the two of them that allowed Jon to have girlfriends if he stayed on the show and pretended all was well and normal on the Gosselin household. He currently bunks in a room over their garage when Kate is home.

There's a lot more to meet the eye here....Jon has wanted out of the show for some time, according to Kate's brother and sister in law (Aunt Jodi and Uncle Kevin).

I think we'll have to wait until this all plays out before we know the truth.

There has been 'talk', that Kate is having an affair with a security guard, but guess what? it's all rumor, pure speculation, absolutely NOTHING to substantiate the tabloid accusations.

As for Aunt Jodi and Uncle whoever, they seem to be bitter about something, probably the money they didn't get from the show. Of all the parties involved here, Auntie Jodi has the least credibility, why would she, and Kate's brother publically trash her like that? Oh yeah, for the kids? Well now, her trash talk and interviews can also affect the kids. but that doesn't seem to bother her, does it? I recall Jon saying in the season opener, that if you give somebody 20 million dollars, they'll say anything you want them to, wonder who he was talking about?
They are shameful leeches.

The parents are not abusing the kids, or doing anything illegal.

Even if they continue the reality show, all the while documenting the break-up of the marriage and the family, It’s still not abuse. It would not be my choice, but it’s not a situation for protective services. The kids are well taken care of and loved by their parents. people are really snowballing, especially the accusations toward Kate. The part about being happy when the security guard is in the picture? Oh come on now, she probably was happy, so what? again, there's just rumors, nothing else. Now as for Jon, there are pictures, links, facts that back up the accusations.

It's also a well known fact that Jon took off on Kate's birthday to go snowboarding with 'friends', he said that himself, on the show.

[angelicmadrigal]

THEY got more than they bargained for, Jon has said he does NOT blame Kate, that he agreed to the pregnancy after the twins, they both wanted one more, the odds of having multiples, from what I understand are astronomical, even with in vitro.
You obviously missed the few shows where he's said he didn't want more kids after the twins. He might SAY he doesn't blame Kate, but you can see it in how he acts. There is also an episode where Kate admits that Jon didn't want more children and she basically nagged him into doing it.

And obviously the two of them did NOT know what they were potentially getting into with the fertility treatments otherwise they wouldn't have been so surprised to get 6 kids. It's uncommon but it can STILL happen.


I don't understand the piling on here. Kate gets testy, she's said she knows she's mistakes, the jump to 'emotional abuse' comes only from your own interpretations.

I don't think -I- have ever mentioned "emotional abuse". So maybe you ought to get straight who's been saying what.

[angelicmadrigal]

It's also a well known fact that Jon took off on Kate's birthday to go snowboarding with 'friends', he said that himself, on the show.

::shrugs:: That should be enough evidence for her that it's over.

[super cool ski instructor]

You obviously missed the few shows where he's said he didn't want more kids after the twins. He might SAY he doesn't blame Kate, but you can see it in how he acts. There is also an episode where Kate admits that Jon didn't want more children and she basically nagged him into doing it.

And obviously the two of them did NOT know what they were potentially getting into with the fertility treatments otherwise they wouldn't have been so surprised to get 6 kids. It's uncommon but it can STILL happen.



I don't think -I- have ever mentioned "emotional abuse". So maybe you ought to get straight who's been saying what.

Well...he also said right into the camera that he didn't cheat on his wife.

He seems to be saying any and everything these days to try and explain away his frat boy behavior. He needs to grow the hell up and stop being so damn lazy...at least Kate is out there making some money. He is doing nothing but living the high life off of the money from the show.

[angelicmadrigal]

Well...he also said right into the camera that he didn't cheat on his wife.

Actaully some of the episodes where he said that was fairly early on, before all this became a public thing.SHE also admits that she pressured him into it, so it's not just him saying it. It just looks like he was too stupid to be like "No, I don't want any more children, and if you want to do this do it on your own."


He seems to be saying any and everything these days to try and explain away his frat boy behavior. He needs to grow the hell up and stop being so damn lazy...at least Kate is out there making some money. He is doing nothing but living the high life off of the money from the show.

Oh and taking care of the kids while she's away, but you know that isn't really a job. ::eyeroll::

[super cool ski instructor]

Actaully some of the episodes where he said that was fairly early on, before all this became a public thing.SHE also admits that she pressured him into it, so it's not just him saying it. It just looks like he was too stupid to be like "No, I don't want any more children, and if you want to do this do it on your own."

No...he specifically said in the first episode this season...two weeks ago, "I did not cheat on my wife". And then went on to say he should choose how he hangs out with his friends more carefully. Did you even watch?



Oh and taking care of the kids while she's away, but you know that isn't really a job. ::eyeroll::

Yes....staying at his girlfriends house until 6 in the morning sure is hard work. Hanging out with his freinds at bars is hard work.

Sorry...they have a ton of help raising those kids. He is being lazy. But he sure enjoys those perks. I don't see him turning down his free motorcycle from the Chopper guys. Or his free trips to snowboard in Utah.

Poor Jon...he has such a hard life.

[Frau Blucher]

Wonder how long it will be until the show is called "Jon and Kate Aren't Doin' So Great?"

Followed up by "Jon, Why is My Support Check Late?"

[Dancer]

I think they are stretching a bit.

By no means would I ever defend what Jon and Kate are doing to their kids.....but their kids are not working by being on the show. They are just living their everyday lives. They just happen to have a film crew taping them.How would you have felt if every moment of your life was being taped and you had no control over it? How would you feel if you were upset and wanted privacy as a young child and instead, you were all over television?

If they are having to deal with their privacy being invaded, then there should be a limit to the amount of time it is being invaded. They don't even get to have a say in it. People should not be watching this show and should, in fact, be refusing to watch TLC altogether until they cancel the show.

[super cool ski instructor]

How would you have felt if every moment of your life was being taped and you had no control over it? How would you feel if you were upset and wanted privacy as a young child and instead, you were all over television?

If they are having to deal with their privacy being invaded, then there should be a limit to the amount of time it is being invaded. They don't even get to have a say in it. People should not be watching this show and should, in fact, be refusing to watch TLC altogether until they cancel the show.

A little drastic. I do find it interesting that nobody seemed to have an issue with "child labor laws" until very recently when their parents became tabloid fodder. I mean for crying out loud...this show has been on for how long? And all of a sudden people are worried about the kid's welfare of being taped?

[Dancer]

A little drastic. I do find it interesting that nobody seemed to have an issue with "child labor laws" until very recently when their parents became tabloid fodder. I mean for crying out loud...this show has been on for how long? And all of a sudden people are worried about the kid's welfare of being taped?I never paid attention to the show until it became a topic for news. Divorce damages kids far more than the parents. TLC wants to profit off this family's stupidity and pain. I take issue with the kids having to suffer for that.

[5thIDSoldier]

This is going to have long term repurcussions on those 8 kids.

Can you immagine being a single mom with 8 kids?

And the child support payments Jon is going to have to make....argh....

[super cool ski instructor]

I never paid attention to the show until it became a topic for news. Divorce damages kids far more than the parents. TLC wants to profit off this family's stupidity and pain. I take issue with the kids having to suffer for that.

You will not hear me arguing with that. I personally think the idea for this show is crazy...and a good example of bad parenting.
Do I sometimes watch? Yes...call it a guilty pleasure.

I do, however, have an issue with authorities all of a sudden deciding they have the kids best interest in mind. This show was never a good idea, and yet it has been on the air for 5 years. Apparently the kid's well being wasn't as important until now.

[Dancer]

You will not hear me arguing with that. I personally think the idea for this show is crazy...and a good example of bad parenting.
Do I sometimes watch? Yes...call it a guilty pleasure.

I do, however, have an issue with authorities all of a sudden deciding they have the kids best interest in mind. This show was never a good idea, and yet it has been on the air for 5 years. Apparently the kid's well being wasn't as important until now.
Better late than never, at least NOW something IS being done for the kids. I might have preferred they do something sooner, but it wasn't until people started speaking up of their concerns that any politician saw political gold in it.

[super cool ski instructor]

This is going to have long term repurcussions on those 8 kids.

Can you immagine being a single mom with 8 kids?

And the child support payments Jon is going to have to make....argh....

Jon won't be making child support payments....can't make payments if you have no job. Besides the money from the show, Kate is the breadwinner.

[super cool ski instructor]

Better late than never, at least NOW something IS being done for the kids. I might have preferred they do something sooner, but it wasn't until people started speaking up of their concerns that any politician saw political gold in it.

I wonder if verbage of laws would have any bearing on this. I would hope not. There is bound to be someone out there who will defend the parents and use the "the kids are not working....." defense.

Who knows. We'll see if it goes anywhere.

[Frau Blucher]

Jon won't be making child support payments....can't make payments if you have no job. Besides the money from the show, Kate is the breadwinner.

Wouldnt the children be the 'breadwinners' here? Without the '8' would anyone be watching or reading or buying anything to do with Jon and Kate?

[super cool ski instructor]

Very true :))

Mabe they will have to make parent support payments.

[rosiegirl]

Keeping children protected and private is not such a bad thing these days.
These two parents are all in it for the money and fame.

[super cool ski instructor]

Keeping children protected and private is not such a bad thing these days.
These two parents are all in it for the money and fame.

Oh they completely are in it for those things. And the freebies aren't so bad either.

[KeithBlubberman]

I put Kate and Jon in the same category as I do Jesse Jackson. Just making money off of someone else, a.k.a. "opportunist". Seriously - what could she write in a book that anyone would really care to read about?

[rosiegirl]

I put Kate and Jon in the same category as I do Jesse Jackson. Just making money off of someone else, a.k.a. "opportunist". Seriously - what could she write in a book that anyone would really care to read about?

She could write how she got those abs after having 8 kids! That's so not fair........

[super cool ski instructor]

She could write how she got those abs after having 8 kids! That's so not fair........

Are there such things as ab implants? I can see her being all "well since you're doing the tummy tuck..maybe you can do a bit more" :))

[rosiegirl]

Are there such things as ab implants? I can see her being all "well since you're doing the tummy tuck..maybe you can do a bit more" :))

Hmm, if there are, I've never heard of them!!

[RTchoke]

Hmm, if there are, I've never heard of them!!

You need to Google more! :))

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[rosiegirl]

ooooh, sick.........

[blazer]

I used to like that show but not any more!

[super cool ski instructor]

You need to Google more! :))


http://www.locateadoc.com/surgery-guide.cfm/cosmetic-surgery/abdominal-augmentation-6-pack-implants

Holy Crap :))

Kate is not above that!!! :))

[RTchoke]

Holy Crap :))

Kate is not above that!!! :))

I can totally see her doing it. :D

[super cool ski instructor]

I can totally see her doing it. :D

Totally!

Okay..I have been hard on Jon in this thread...time for a little Kate bashing. :))


You would think that with how obssessed she is with her looks, that she would have a haircut that doesn't make her look like a witch!

[KeithBlubberman]

She could write how she got those abs after having 8 kids! That's so not fair........

She was given a tummy tuck. And, this is coming from a man's point of view - I don't get why these news people are saying how she is "hot". My wife is 44 and has had two children; goes to the Y 3-4 times a week and has better abs (without a free tummy tuck) than Kate does. :rolleyes: The pictures I saw, Kate still has some jiggle.

[super cool ski instructor]

Okay...I will say this...having some jiggle does not make one not hot.


I'm just saying....

[KeithBlubberman]

Totally!

Okay..I have been hard on Jon in this thread...time for a little Kate bashing. :))


You would think that with how obssessed she is with her looks, that she would have a haircut that doesn't make her look like a witch!

Okay..now the comment on her doo is hilarious. My wife made the comment over the weekend. She used to be a fanatic about the show, until it became apparent that Kate was a drama queen. Always talking about how hard she struggles to keep the kids taken care of and the house...all the while having a nanny and housekeeper come in and the freebies rolling in too. :))

Wonder how Kate feels about being replaced by the Octomom?

[RTchoke]

Totally!

Okay..I have been hard on Jon in this thread...time for a little Kate bashing. :))


You would think that with how obssessed she is with her looks, that she would have a haircut that doesn't make her look like a witch!

:))

But, she thinks she's hawt! :D

[KeithBlubberman]

Okay...I will say this...having some jiggle does not make one not hot.


I'm just saying....

Well...I'll give you that. BUT, when they talk about her abs...uh..they look pretty jiggilish to me. This coming from a red meat eating heterosexual highly testosteronish male :)) Just saying..... ;)

[super cool ski instructor]

Okay..now the comment on her doo is hilarious. My wife made the comment over the weekend. She used to be a fanatic about the show, until it became apparent that Kate was a drama queen. Always talking about how hard she struggles to keep the kids taken care of and the house...all the while having a nanny and housekeeper come in and the freebies rolling in too. :))

Wonder how Kate feels about being replaced by the Octomom?

Oh you can guaren-damn-tee she is ****ed about the Octomom :))

[super cool ski instructor]

:))

But, she thinks she's hawt! :D

They always show videos from their wedding...and she looked so pretty...why mess that up?

I don't blame her for the tummy tuck...having that many kids, I'd get one too...but the rest of her is also so fake.

[super cool ski instructor]

Well...I'll give you that. BUT, when they talk about her abs...uh..they look pretty jiggilish to me. This coming from a red meat eating heterosexual highly testosteronish male :)) Just saying..... ;)

Okay. I mean..I have some jiggle...and I am damn hot! And humble!!! ;)


:)) :))

[KeithBlubberman]

Okay. I mean..I have some jiggle...and I am damn hot! And humble!!! ;)


:)) :))

I have NO doubt you are hawtness.... just saying :)

[RTchoke]

They always show videos from their wedding...and she looked so pretty...why mess that up?

I don't blame her for the tummy tuck...having that many kids, I'd get one too...but the rest of her is also so fake.

I don't begrudge her the tummy tuck either. That to me seemed more a necessity than a luxury. :D

From that point on though.................

She better be careful or she will end up the female Michael Jackson in the surgery department. :eek:

[super cool ski instructor]

Eww :))

[JenyEliza]

Okay. I mean..I have some jiggle...and I am damn hot! And humble!!! ;)


:)) :))

I can tell you from personal experience that carrying more than one baby at a time (as in twins) does horrible things to your belly. I went from 118 to 205 when I was pregnant with my twins. I was so large I had to put two hospital gowns on to cover my largeness. One frontwards and one backwards.

I don't begrudge Kate's tummy tuck after carrying twins, then sextuplets either. That was actually a medical necessity. She had a 4 inch gap in her abdominal muscles that seperated during the sexteuplet pregnancy and needed to be repaired--otherwise she could have ended up with an abdominal hernia that strangulates (which is dangerous, even fatal). I have the same gap from my twin pregnancy--but have not had it repaired. I don't have a spare $10k laying around for the abdominoplasty and insurance has classified this surgery as "elective" and will not pay. :(

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

You know Mysty, you brought up something that I wasn't going to touch, but since you brought it up, well here goes. I watched part of the show the other night and some of the children's behavior was completely inexcusable. The boys were left in a room on their own and they were hitting and kicking each other. Now, don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with boys rough housing. Actually I think it is good for them. But the kicking, hitting and calling each other names is rude and a sign of a complete lack of respect for each other. Jon laughed it off saying that it cracks him up and that he just throws weapons in the mix for them to use just to see what happens. :eek: The children are seeing the total lack of respect each of their parents have for the other and they are copying that behavior in their relationships with each other. I have also noticed that the two older sisters are a bit on the bossy side. Don't get me wrong, they are cute kids, but their behavior leaves a little to be desired.

Me personally..if I ventured into this realm of reality t.v. with my kids and with my husband....regardless of camera's in my home; that would be taping every parenting faux pas I/we may or may not make...I would still parent my children in my own fashion regardless of public pressure or media pressure to change said parenting style.

These types of shows seem to be pushing some type of 1970's ubber Utopian Doctor Spock fake parenting that promotes a post show quarter backing of viewers. Those same viewers then blog and spew their views/opinion based solely on mere moments in time within the kids/family's life...and they (the blogger viewers) can barely raise their own children! :rolleyes: Me? Hell, I'd take the licking from the press...and keep on ticking baby! If anything, I would be more regimented and disciplined ensuring American viewers understood loving discipline and constant routine healthy behavior in order to make my point on 'how' to raise a healthy well adjusted child.

Jon and Kate /? IMO,The TLC camera's keep them from being able to raise said children outside of what viewers deem healthy. Who in the hell are the viewers of this show to Monday morning quarter back in a situation where only a tunnel view of reality is being presented? I mean come on....it's reality t.v....we should all understand that just because it's labeled as 'real' doesn't actually mean that what we are seeing is real right? :rolleyes:

Now..as far as the kids. The two older girls? They are gonna be the kids who are gonna get their asses handed to them once they hit Jr. High and High School. Those two have mouths that beg for a fist! No respect for their parents or other siblings. Little wanna be princesses. Gag. They should be helping to clean the house with Mom..they should be helping with the younger siblings...and most certainly more self sufficient then what is being portrayed on the show. The little boys? IMO, they need a good switch pulled from one of the family tree's outside...and smacked with it! Kicking and hurting your siblings is simply not tolerated...or shouldn't be. Those boys should be given outside hard work chores to remind them just how grateful they should be to have such a home and such a family. :snooty: Those little girls...what wussy's! Pure and simply little whiners! Need to toughen up if they are gonna make it in the outside world imo. Instead, all of these kids are being allowed to run a muck.....why? Good ratings I guess. All of these children are being handled as though they are made from china and will break or crack at the least bit of stress. Come on...that type of protective behavior and environmental peer presure raising of those kids is gonna make them into china and they will break...and it won't be pretty when it happens.

And people wonder why Kate is loosing her mind? Without those camera's, we would see a whole different Kate. We might even see a whole different Jon. Personally, I think Jon likes to blame everything on his supposed over bearing wife. Oh..poor poor victim Jon....:confused: Weak is what Jon is...weak, immature and overweening looser wanna be. :boohoo: Poor guy...poor poor baby...stuck with all these kids....with all the responsibilities of a father...and a wife who actually expects him to be a father and not a frat boy wanna be. Boo freaking who! :wall: He won't leave....she makes far to much money for him to even think about leaving. Besides...he'd have to actually get and keep a job again to pay child support...and we can't have those delicate girl hands of his getting dirty now can we? Guy makes me wanna to barf!

Counseling alone won't save this family. Jon and Kate coming to terms with one another and themselves is a first step. Counseling the second...then implementing it third. I won't hold my breath.

Anyone think this large family can't run like a small family? ...just take a look at the Dugger family. No where near the issue's Jon and Kate have..and they've got more kids!!!! Not issue one...hmmmmm....guess it can be done.

~Mysty

[super cool ski instructor]

Mysty!!! :))

I love ya girl....you tell it like it is!

[super cool ski instructor]

I can tell you from personal experience that carrying more than one baby at a time (as in twins) does horrible things to your belly. I went from 118 to 205 when I was pregnant with my twins. I was so large I had to put two hospital gowns on to cover my largeness. One frontwards and one backwards.

I don't begrudge Kate's tummy tuck after carrying twins, then sextuplets either. That was actually a medical necessity. She had a 4 inch gap in her abdominal muscles that seperated during the sexteuplet pregnancy and needed to be repaired--otherwise she could have ended up with an abdominal hernia that strangulates (which is dangerous, even fatal). I have the same gap from my twin pregnancy--but have not had it repaired. I don't have a spare $10k laying around for the abdominoplasty and insurance has classified this surgery as "elective" and will not pay. :(

Insurance will not cover it? Crap!!!

I am sooo hoping you are lucky in that hernia department...that sounds so dangerous :(

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

Mysty!!! :))

I love ya girl....you tell it like it is!

:redface: Been married only once...for 25 years... to the same man that fathered my children...raised my three kids....helped raise God only knows how may others kids through extended family and girlfriends...and honestly, I've lost the ability to ******** on this 'raising of kids' and or 'marriage' anymore. Half the crap people use as rationals for behaviors is simply making excuses for behavior they know damn well is wrong! We as a society are so damn obsessed with blame placing...finger pointing....victim-hood statements as a way of differing our own fault in any given scenerio that we have lost the ability to simply state the obvious truth. No one wants to be the bad guy...no one wants to take responsibility for screwing up. It's always got to be someone else's fault. Dear lord..makes me wanna spew! Take a mea culpia and move on.

Hell...hold up a mirror folks....make sure what you see is right and straight before you begin to spew how everything in your personal life is someone else fault. :rolleyes: Take Jon for example...in his view/opinion, it's all Kate's fault that he had to fly into another woman's arms. :rolleyes: Really? Wow!...that some rational isn't it? Take Kate for example...she has to nag and be ubber controlling in the day to day lives of home and kids because her husband won't do anything right? Hmmmm...then why did you marry him dummy? If you don't want your husband to be your first child then don't marry one! :wall:

Those kids....they aren't dumb. They know just how far they can push it. They know there is little to nothing Mom or Dad can do about it due to camera's. So....8 little monsters are to be let loosed onto the world...why? Because American's can't hold a mirror up to themselves and be honest in what this type of life/parenting is doing to the end game adults those kids will be. Oh it's all fun and games now...but how fun is it going to be when we have 8 dysfunctional adults whining and using the rational how nothing is their fault? It's all gonna be Mom and Dad's fault...oh..and TLC fault too for paying Mom and Dad to have a microscope 24/7 in their home....:wall:

Wonder what Doc Phil, The Oprah, and all the other t.v. wanna be psycho's will say then? Hmmmm...could be interesting.

I can see it now..."Surviving and growing up on Jon and Kate plus 8"....:think:

~Mysty

[Frau Blucher]

She could write how she got those abs after having 8 kids! That's so not fair........

Considering she got a tummy tuck after having the kids could some lipo sculpting been far behind?

Wouldn't be a very long book.

[Frau Blucher]

Totally!

Okay..I have been hard on Jon in this thread...time for a little Kate bashing. :))


You would think that with how obssessed she is with her looks, that she would have a haircut that doesn't make her look like a witch!

Maybe it was the look she was going for??

[Frau Blucher]

Okay..now the comment on her doo is hilarious. My wife made the comment over the weekend. She used to be a fanatic about the show, until it became apparent that Kate was a drama queen. Always talking about how hard she struggles to keep the kids taken care of and the house...all the while having a nanny and housekeeper come in and the freebies rolling in too. :))

Wonder how Kate feels about being replaced by the Octomom?

I wonder if this isnt why the 'sudden' marriage crisis drama...getting back in the 'game' so to speak.

[angelicmadrigal]

No...he specifically said in the first episode this season...two weeks ago, "I did not cheat on my wife". And then went on to say he should choose how he hangs out with his friends more carefully. Did you even watch?
I wasn't referring to that I wa referring tot he comments about how he didn't want more children. As well as Kate's admission that she was aware he didn't want more kids after the twins. That was several seasons ago. And yeah I watched the season finale, and hoenstly I don't care if he cheated on her or not. He made it pretty clear in his statements and actions he isn't really intersted in her feelings.






Sorry...they have a ton of help raising those kids. He is being lazy. But he sure enjoys those perks. I don't see him turning down his free motorcycle from the Chopper guys. Or his free trips to snowboard in Utah.
Yet if they have all this help why is Kate constantly whining about how she never has any help? I didn't see her turn down her bike either if you're going to bring that up.


Poor Jon...he has such a hard life.
Mostly through his own stupidity, he would have been smart and left her when she pressured him to have more kids when he didn't want them.

[GOP_FAN]

I wasn't referring to that I wa referring tot he comments about how he didn't want more children. As well as Kate's admission that she was aware he didn't want more kids after the twins. That was several seasons ago. And yeah I watched the season finale, and hoenstly I don't care if he cheated on her or not. He made it pretty clear in his statements and actions he isn't really intersted in her feelings.






Yet if they have all this help why is Kate constantly whining about how she never has any help? I didn't see her turn down her bike either if you're going to bring that up.


Mostly through his own stupidity, he would have been smart and left her when she pressured him to have more kids when he didn't want them.

He could've used a condome or had a vasectomy.

I don't see Kate the same way you do. I do see a lot of piling on, for some reason people love to hate those who improve their looks, and hey, to those of you criticizing her looks, you must be drop dead gorgeous, she looks great. BOTH Jon and Kate have made money from the show, and that money has afforded the things that I mentioned in another post, a large home, which gives the brood plenty of space, private schools, and the childcare they get from individuals, and of course, security, and Jon's new sportscar. By the way, can you imagine how much it costs to raise the 8 kids? It's not just bigger house, etc. what about food? dentists, doctors, clothing? Without the show, it would be nearly impossible, one thing's for sure, one or both parents wouldn't have that quality time that people say have been taken away by the show, they'd be working all the time to try to make ends meet. Personally, I think the show is far less traumatic than most of you do, it's an occasional filming, not every day, and there are times when there is no filming for long stretches, between seasons.

You know what bothers me most, is the "poor Jon" thing, he doesn't get to have an affair, get caught red handed, and then be mad and get pity lavished on him. He's a jerk, and he should be apologizing to his wife, and his kids. I mean a real apology, not the half ass one he gave on the season premiere, why should anybody feel sorry for him? He cheated on his wife, and he brought the paparazzi into their daily lives.

One more thing, I better not even see him wearing another t-shirt that throws a bible verse at me, I mean please, what a hypocrite.

[super cool ski instructor]

I wasn't referring to that I wa referring tot he comments about how he didn't want more children. As well as Kate's admission that she was aware he didn't want more kids after the twins. That was several seasons ago. And yeah I watched the season finale, and hoenstly I don't care if he cheated on her or not. He made it pretty clear in his statements and actions he isn't really intersted in her feelings.

Wow...what a classy guy. Interesting that you choose to defend him.....

[angelicmadrigal]

He could've used a condome or had a vasectomy.


She had fertility treatments. Niether of those would have helped.

[angelicmadrigal]

Wow...what a classy guy. Interesting that you choose to defend him.....

She doens't seem to care about his feelings either so, you know they need to get a divorce before they screw their kids up permanently. Honestly, I have no problem with cheating on your spouse or bf/gf. I've done it so I'm not going to judge someone else for doing it.

Not to mention I'm harder on tother women then I am on men. I EXPECT men to act like morons, other women I expect a little more from.

[angelicmadrigal]

You know what bothers me most, is the "poor Jon" thing, he doesn't get to have an affair, get caught red handed, and then be mad and get pity lavished on him. He's a jerk, and he should be apologizing to his wife, and his kids. I mean a real apology, not the half ass one he gave on the season premiere, why should anybody feel sorry for him?

::shrugs:: I don't think he owes his wife anything other than the divorce papers he should have handed her when she started nagging him about having more kids after he told her "no".

As for the kids, I don'tthink he's screwed them up as much as you want to claim he has....or the wife for that matter hasn't really screwed them up too much. However, if two people stay married (for the sake of the kids) and can't stand each other that has the potential to screw them up pretty badly.


He cheated on his wife, and he brought the paparazzi into their daily lives.

Oh please, it was only a matter of time until that happend anyway, the are on national TV you know.

[super cool ski instructor]

She doens't seem to care about his feelings either so, you know they need to get a divorce before they screw their kids up permanently. Honestly, I have no problem with cheating on your spouse or bf/gf. I've done it so I'm not going to judge someone else for doing it.

Not to mention I'm harder on tother women then I am on men. I EXPECT men to act like morons, other women I expect a little more from.

Well..I have a BIG problem with cheating. Cheating is wrong...and if you did it before then you were wrong.

And no...not all men act like morons...and they should not be expected to act like morons. They are expected to act like MEN...not petulant children. Your views of men are alarming....and it's those kinds of views on men that make men think women are bitchy nags. In fact...it almost seems to be the way Kate views Jon.."well he's a man, he's a moron..so I need to parent him too".

[angelicmadrigal]

Well..I have a BIG problem with cheating. Cheating is wrong...and if you did it before then you were wrong.

That's your opinion. You can have a problem with it. I don't. I've dated guys where they are lucky the least I did to them was cheat on them.


And no...not all men act like morons...and they should not be expected to act like morons. They are expected to act like MEN...not petulant children.

You can expect whatever you want, but what you get is an entirely different matter.


Your views of men are alarming....and it's those kinds of views on men that make men think women are bitchy nags. In fact...it almost seems to be the way Kate views Jon.."well he's a man, he's a moron..so I need to parent him too".
Yup, in general that's how I treat men until they prove otherwise to me that they are better than the average man. I am bitchy, but I am certainly not a nag, because nags repeat themselves, I do NOT repeat myself. I only give directions or say something one time (unless you're a small child). Thankfully I found a guy that is better than the average man, so I don't need to nag him.

[GOP_FAN]

::shrugs:: I don't think he owes his wife anything other than the divorce papers he should have handed her when she started nagging him about having more kids after he told her "no".

As for the kids, I don'tthink he's screwed them up as much as you want to claim he has....or the wife for that matter hasn't really screwed them up too much. However, if two people stay married (for the sake of the kids) and can't stand each other that has the potential to screw them up pretty badly.


Oh please, it was only a matter of time until that happend anyway, the are on national TV you know.

Where do you get the idea Jon said "no" and Kate bullied him into having more children, that's not what he said in an early interview:

Kate's desire to start a family was met with a feeling that she would not be able to conceive. She underwent testing and was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome. The couple decided to turn to fertility treatments and immediately began intrauterine insemination or IUI, a procedure where no embryos are left over from the procedure.[2] By February, Kate was pregnant with twins. The couple was thrilled, admitting to having prayed for twins because they were both baby crazy and feared they would fight over one baby. On October 8, 2000, Cara Nicole and Madelyn "Mady" Kate Gosselin were born, six minutes apart, after a "rough" pregnancy.[3]
When the twins turned three, Kate began to think about the possibility of having another child, while Jon was not so sure. On the couple's appearance on The Oprah Winfrey Show that aired on February 22, 2008, Kate admitted that she had wanted to have another child because she wanted to know what it felt like to not have to split her time between two babies, while Jon was hesitant because he felt like the world is built for a family of four. According to Kate, a Korean infant became available while Kate was an obstetrics nurse. They decided not to adopt the baby boy, but instead return to fertility treatment.[3] By October, Kate was pregnant. Five weeks later (after being hospitalized for over-stimulated ovaries), at the initial ultrasound, the doctor announced that there were six sacs with seven yolks, or embryos. According to Kate, this was very emotional news for them, and left her shaking and sobbing and Jon near tears, unable to look at the sonogram screen. The doctor suggested selective reduction, but the couple was absolutely against doing so.[3]

This doesn't sound like Jon was brow beaten, they discussed it, even talked about adoption, but decided on another round of fertility treatments.

You know what's missing? That gun pointed at 'poor' Jon's head, forcing him to help conceive those children. He could've opted out, he's a big boy.

Where did I claim Jon 'screwed up the kids' I make the argument that the children are being raised by two loving parents, and that the 3 day a week filming isn't the detriment that some claim it is.

He is a jerk for screwing around with other women, like he said, his kids will be able to google all of this, and see the photos.

[GOP_FAN]

That's your opinion. You can have a problem with it. I don't. I've dated guys where they are lucky the least I did to them was cheat on them.


So, you have no problem cheating on a boyfriend, but you are way above nagging him? Interesting... :eek:'


Yup, in general that's how I treat men until they prove otherwise to me that they are better than the average man. I am bitchy, but I am certainly not a nag, because nags repeat themselves, I do NOT repeat myself. I only give directions or say something one time (unless you're a small child). Thankfully I found a guy that is better than the average man, so I don't need to nag him.

Well, I guess this says it all. I certainly hope your better than average guy doesn't ever say "huh?" after you've give a directive.

[angelicmadrigal]

Where do you get the idea Jon said "no" and Kate bullied him into having more children, that's not what he said in an early interview:
They've both said it in several of the episodes.

[angelicmadrigal]

So, you have no problem cheating on a boyfriend, but you are way above nagging him? Interesting... :eek:'
Yup. Cheating on a guy is my way of telling him in the most hurtful way possible you have FAILED, you aren't good enough for me and I'm done with you.



Well, I guess this says it all. I certainly hope your better than average guy doesn't ever say "huh?" after you've give a directive.

Well after 5 years it hasn't been an issue. I don't find the need to give him directives because the expectations of our realtionship are clearly defined, and got defined fairly early on. There's no reason either of us needs to tell the other one what needs to happen we pretty much already know.

[sircharliebrown]

wow

I'm going to have my husband read the last couple pages of this thread so he can thank me for being me and not like......other people.

[super cool ski instructor]

Okay...so I went to the store on Saturday and saw the magazine covers....and they make no secret of the fact that they want to paint Kate as the zombie here, and Jon as the victim.

[GOP_FAN]

Okay...so I went to the store on Saturday and saw the magazine covers....and they make no secret of the fact that they want to paint Kate as the zombie here, and Jon as the victim.

True, "US Magazine" had photos of Kate, just after the birth of the sextuplets, then a recent one, the caption read "Mom to Monster", that was just one of them. I saw just a small excerpt on "E" there was a tabloid 'reporter' literally following Kate, right next to her, saying "is it true you're having an affair?" to her credit, she continued walking into the building, she remained calm, she didn't bite. It was a disgusting thing to do, yet people buy this garbage.

Here's my biggest issue with Jon and Kate, people are piling on her, and I detest piling on. People love to do that, they see somebody like her, that she has managed to raise 8 healthy, happy children, she's built a successful business as a means to support her family, and she works hard at keeping her appearance up. People love to tear somebody like her down, and try to justify it as "she's a public person, she has to expect it" or "she invited the media in" uh, no, nobody deserves that crap. If somebody were following me into a store, badgering me, accusing me of having an affair, I'd turn around and beat the hell out of him with something, my purse(hey, it's heavy) or anything I could find. Of course, if SHE does that, they'll say she's cracked up, gone over the edge. :rolleyes:

It's just too much, she has a right to do the show, the money helps raise her kids, she shouldn't have to deal with the idiot paparazzi, or people's insults.

[newyorkjetsfan]

True, "US Magazine" had photos of Kate, just after the birth of the sextuplets, then a recent one, the caption read "Mom to Monster", that was just one of them. I saw just a small excerpt on "E" there was a tabloid 'reporter' literally following Kate, right next to her, saying "is it true you're having an affair?" to her credit, she continued walking into the building, she remained calm, she didn't bite. It was a disgusting thing to do, yet people buy this garbage.

Here's my biggest issue with Jon and Kate, people are piling on her, and I detest piling on. People love to do that, they see somebody like her, that she has managed to raise 8 healthy, happy children, she's built a successful business as a means to support her family, and she works hard at keeping her appearance up. People love to tear somebody like her down, and try to justify it as "she's a public person, she has to expect it" or "she invited the media in" uh, no, nobody deserves that crap. If somebody were following me into a store, badgering me, accusing me of having an affair, I'd turn around and beat the hell out of him with something, my purse(hey, it's heavy) or anything I could find. Of course, if SHE does that, they'll say she's cracked up, gone over the edge. :rolleyes:

It's just too much, she has a right to do the show, the money helps raise her kids, she shouldn't have to deal with the idiot paparazzi, or people's insults.

I agree with you. Jon and Kate have every right to do their show.

Anyway, they had their 100th episode with Chef Emeril Lagasse cooking dinner.

They will appear on American Choppers this Thursday. I just started watching the show, and it's a good show.

[Groundhog]

I don't trust people in the entertainment business. It's not below them to orchestrate fake drama and personal issues in the tabloids in order to generate interest in their shows.

Most reality shows are half scripted anyways.

[newyorkjetsfan]

TLC announced that next week's episode will be a special one-hour episode in which the Gosselins will make a "life-changing" announcement that will hopefully bring peace to the family.

I just hope that it's not that they will end the show or get a divorce.

[PuckHappy]

The local KTTV 11 news at 10pm ran a story that the BIG announcement is that they are divorcing. :cry:

I blame Jon. He is a lazy butt that needs to grow up. Yes, Kate does sound like she is a witch with a capitol B.

But if Jon had a spine and balls he'd have gotten a hold of her and slowed her down. But NO he goes out and cheats on his family. Only a jerk with a really small one does that.

[newyorkjetsfan]

What do you think of Kate's spanking controversy?

I think it's blown way out of proportions.

[angelicmadrigal]

What do you think of Kate's spanking controversy?

I think it's blown way out of proportions.

oh noes....she spanked her kid. ::eyeroll:: From the story I can't say whether it was a good use of a spanking, from what it looks like it wasn't the most well implemented one, but she didn't seem to be abusing the girl.

[Buffalo]

The local KTTV 11 news at 10pm ran a story that the BIG announcement is that they are divorcing. :cry:

I blame Jon. He is a lazy butt that needs to grow up. Yes, Kate does sound like she is a witch with a capitol B.

But if Jon had a spine and balls he'd have gotten a hold of her and slowed her down. But NO he goes out and cheats on his family. Only a jerk with a really small one does that.
This family is a trainwreck, playing out their darkest personal moments for money. I blame both of them and all the viewers who encourage it. I hope that million dollar home and free crap was worth it.

[MrShotShot]

I actually enjoyed the show early on, but they just got a bit too full of themselves.

[Fire Watch]

Hopefully the announcement will be that they're doing the right thing by their kids and getting the damn cameras out of their lives.

[5thIDSoldier]

Can you immagine the child support payments for 8 kids? Jon will be bankrupt before they leave the courthouse.

[super cool ski instructor]

Can you immagine the child support payments for 8 kids? Jon will be bankrupt before they leave the courthouse.

Jon has no job.....what child support could he even pay? :lol:

[super cool ski instructor]

oh noes....she spanked her kid. ::eyeroll:: From the story I can't say whether it was a good use of a spanking, from what it looks like it wasn't the most well implemented one, but she didn't seem to be abusing the girl.

I've watched the show quite a bit...and based on the kids behavior...a few of them could have used a good spanking a long time ago.

[ThrowCop]

I felt like a sick voyeur watching the show so I quit.

[Buffalo]

Hopefully the announcement will be that they're doing the right thing by their kids and getting the damn cameras out of their lives.
Spoken like a father. If only there was money to be made by quitting the show.

[PhilRocksinOHIO.]

Spoken like a father. If only there was money to be made by quitting the show. Yeah, like writing a tell all book, going on the talk show circuit and so on. Jon himself could make a fortune. Ah, the possibilities.

[angelicmadrigal]

I've watched the show quite a bit...and based on the kids behavior...a few of them could have used a good spanking a long time ago.

I always thought that myself.

[GOP_FAN]

I just watched the 'big announcement' episode, and sure enough, it's a divorce announcement.

I've got to tell you, my heart goes out to Kate Gosselin, she looks devastated, she's so obviously heartbroken. She suggested she didn't want this, and was hoping things would work out, she said "Jon has alot of anger toward me".

That amazes me, Jon's angry, oh boo hoo, he's very immature, he's dressing and behaving like somebody who's 22, not 32 with a wife and eight children. I mean, please, hanging out in the bar, prowling around, hooking up with a 23 year old. He looks happy to me, relieved to be alleviated of his responsibilities. He was one huge, selfish, jerk.

By the way, he's admitted that he still "talks" to the 23 year old he's screwing around with. He simply doesn't want to be married. The children, fortunately, have a strong, well grounded Mother, who has always been the provider, she will take good care of them.

[PuckHappy]

DITTO GOP_FAN! Could not have said it better myself.

[newyorkjetsfan]

I was saddened to see Jon and Kate are getting a divorce. They should have gone for marriage counseling first.

I felt sorry for them and the kids.

[GOP_FAN]

DITTO GOP_FAN! Could not have said it better myself.
Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees him for what he is. He's throwing away his family, his wife, for what? a sports car, newly pierced ears, hanging out at bars, picking up women? He'll wake up one day from his mid-life crisis, the g/f will tire of him once the fame wears off, and he'll be alone.

What really got me was his expression, he just didn't care, he wouldn't even try to save his marriage. What an absolute jerk! :evil:

[blazer]

Yes, I agree with what GOP said. It's sad because I watched my brother do the same exact thing. He hurt so many people!

[MrShotShot]

I just watched the 'big announcement' episode, and sure enough, it's a divorce announcement.

I've got to tell you, my heart goes out to Kate Gosselin, she looks devastated, she's so obviously heartbroken. She suggested she didn't want this, and was hoping things would work out, she said "Jon has alot of anger toward me".

That amazes me, Jon's angry, oh boo hoo, he's very immature, he's dressing and behaving like somebody who's 22, not 32 with a wife and eight children. I mean, please, hanging out in the bar, prowling around, hooking up with a 23 year old. He looks happy to me, relieved to be alleviated of his responsibilities. He was one huge, selfish, jerk.

By the way, he's admitted that he still "talks" to the 23 year old he's screwing around with. He simply doesn't want to be married. The children, fortunately, have a strong, well grounded Mother, who has always been the provider, she will take good care of them.

While I agree that he seems to be a bit immature. I think you have to be honest and admit that Kate is a stark raving mad dino-bitch. Anyone who has watched the show sees how she acts on camera - can you imagine what she's like when the cameras are off?

Not to mention that there are allegations that she cheated as well with her bodyguard.

It's clear to me that the blame needs to be spread around equally.

[janer]

I have never watched this show. I hadn't even heard of these people until the past several months when they started appearing on "The Soup", which is my only conduit to what's out there, reality-wise. And I saw their pictures on magazines that I don't buy.
So I figured out that they have 8 kids including sextuplets, and I heard on the news that they were going to make a big announcement and that was that they're getting divorced. With 8 little kids who look to be under school age.
So, I said to my husband this morning, "If I were the judge, I would refuse to grant them the divorce and order them to live under one roof with their kids, with no cameras for X number of years - then they can file for divorce if they want." One of them can get a real job and the other one can stay home and take care of those little ones.

[tha malcontent™]

06.23.2009: TLC's New Hit: Jon & Kate should be Prison Raped

(associalisticpress ;)) - Seriously, people... I am WAY Tired of these (2) Selfish ******-bags... Get off the ****ing Television and deal with the "reality" that you have (8) ****ing Children!... Life CEASED being about you guys YEARS ago, and I was Disgusted then. Now that you are going to Expose your Children to the World while you (2) Illustrate the most Base Selfish Nature of our Species as you Divorce is Reprehensible. You both Suck... End of List.

:)

peace...

[traditional_woman]

I think they are equally to blame. Jon said that he was ''excited'' but hurt over the break up, excited that he was going to start a new chapter. To me that screams of someone who wants out, with no thought of reconciliation in mind. He said he was too passive and that he's standing up on his own two feet now. I don't think kate knows how t deal with him now that he doesn't take her bullying. She's now the one scared to approach him, or set him off. I think he probably heard ''why do you let her treat you that way'' too many times, causing him to reasses his marriage and feel resentful. Sounds like they will have 3 houses, one for the kids(kate said she wouldn't be there when he was there,and vice versa), and one for each of them.

Once the show stops i don't know how they will afford it. Poor kids:(

I do havta say that i felt bad for her seeing her in so much pain.

[birddog1]

While I agree that he seems to be a bit immature. I think you have to be honest and admit that Kate is a stark raving mad dino-bitch. Anyone who has watched the show sees how she acts on camera - can you imagine what she's like when the cameras are off?

Not to mention that there are allegations that she cheated as well with her bodyguard.

It's clear to me that the blame needs to be spread around equally.

She reminds me of a rabid pit bull.

[birddog1]

I think they are equally to blame. Jon said that he was ''excited'' but hurt over the break up, excited that he was going to start a new chapter. To me that screams of someone who wants out, with no thought of reconciliation in mind. He said he was too passive and that he's standing up on his own two feet now. I think he probably heard ''why do you let her treat you that way'' too many times, causing him to reasses his marriage and feel resentful. Sounds like they will have 3 houses, one for the kids(kate said she wouldn't be there when he was there,and vice versa).

Once the show stops i don't know how they will afford it. Poor kids:(

I don't see TLC keeping the show on air much longer after all this hype dies down. I wonder what they will do then.

[super cool ski instructor]

I just watched the 'big announcement' episode, and sure enough, it's a divorce announcement.

I've got to tell you, my heart goes out to Kate Gosselin, she looks devastated, she's so obviously heartbroken. She suggested she didn't want this, and was hoping things would work out, she said "Jon has alot of anger toward me".

That amazes me, Jon's angry, oh boo hoo, he's very immature, he's dressing and behaving like somebody who's 22, not 32 with a wife and eight children. I mean, please, hanging out in the bar, prowling around, hooking up with a 23 year old. He looks happy to me, relieved to be alleviated of his responsibilities. He was one huge, selfish, jerk.

By the way, he's admitted that he still "talks" to the 23 year old he's screwing around with. He simply doesn't want to be married. The children, fortunately, have a strong, well grounded Mother, who has always been the provider, she will take good care of them.

I agree.


Hey Jon...what the hell is with the earrings? Do you know how gay you look????

[MrShotShot]

I don't see TLC keeping the show on air much longer after all this hype dies down. I wonder what they will do then.

Oh I think it will be bigger than ever. It will all be about them sitting there complaining about each other. Sharing the children is bad enough for most divorced parents. Now they have to share the house too. I can just see them sitting there saying, "well, Kate/Jon had the kids last week and he/she did X."

Not to mention all of the paparazzi are now going to be stalking them even more to try and find out who they're dating/sleeping with.

[GOP_FAN]

She reminds me of a rabid pit bull.

Oh come on, geez......

[Greyclouds]

<snip>

Mal, I realize that you're posting some sort of blog post, but I find that blog post to be entirely reprehensible and classless. That's just my opinion.

[GOP_FAN]

While I agree that he seems to be a bit immature. I think you have to be honest and admit that Kate is a stark raving mad dino-bitch. Anyone who has watched the show sees how she acts on camera - can you imagine what she's like when the cameras are off?

Not to mention that there are allegations that she cheated as well with her bodyguard.

It's clear to me that the blame needs to be spread around equally.

I do not agree that Kate is a "stark raving mad dino-bitch". She has admitted that she comes across as crass and overly harsh at times, she's also very smart, very business oriented, seems to be a very involved, attentive Mother, and takes care of herself, Jon himself has said many times, that Kate looks great, and doesn't look like a woman who had eight kids. On the other hand, Jon came across as easy going, happy-go-lucky, likeable guy, who simply had to deal with his overly critical, harsh wife. That worked for him for awhile, people did like him, however, the tide appears to be turning, people saw his true colors. He's a jerk, he won't seek counseling, he is consumed with HIS own 'style', HIS needs, HIS life, he wants to hang with his girlfriend, the one he cheated with.

As for Kate, and the bodyguard, you've got your facts wrong, there are no 'allegations' there are rumors, coming from tabloids, suggestions, hints, that kind of thing. She seems happy when the bodyguard is around, that's the basis of the rumor, it's nothing more than that. Jon, on the other hand, has pretty much admitted, without a hint of regret, that he not only had the affair, but still 'talks' to her. There are pictures, there's that public release from the girl's brother, see, now that's factual information.

I'm tired of the "but look at her" "oh, both are to blame"..maybe, but he's more to blame, and he's the one who is throwing away the marriage. The children seem happy, thanks to their Mother, and the income that has been generated, thanks to her, they will have a difficult time, but they will probably get through it, thanks to their Mother.

He's a jerk, pure and simple, he's whiney, needy, and very immature, he keeps saying he's "only 32 years old" yeah, he should remember that, and stop playing like he's a single 21 year old. There's no equal blame, he cheated, he got tired of being a family man, that makes him the bad guy, he's got way more blame than she does.

[RTchoke]

Oh come on, geez......

I don't know about going that far, but c'mon. She berates him constantly, talks down to him like he is too stupid to do anything, just because it's not done HER way (remember, she stated her way is the right way :rolleyes:) and her "love taps" would get him thrown in the slammer if he tried that crap with her.

She is a controlling bitch period. While he is not totally blameless, how long do you think he could put up with that crap before saying enough? You could tell they were a dysfunctional couple if you ever really looked at them. There was never any "teamwork" going on, just Kate standing around bitching about what Jon needed to do, needed to do NOW and needed to do her way while he schlepped around doing it grumbling under his breath. I'm sorry, but if I had eight kids and my husband took the time to dress them and get them ready while I was doing other things, I would not be chewing his ass for putting the wrong shoes on them, or not putting their little matching outfits on them, I would be thanking my lucky stars I had a husband willing to help at all. Has she admitted she had round the clock help yet, or is she still going with the "I'm doing it all alone" line?

[GOP_FAN]

I don't know about going that far, but c'mon. She berates him constantly, talks down to him like he is too stupid to do anything, just because it's not done HER way (remember, she stated her way is the right way :rolleyes:) and her "love taps" would get him thrown in the slammer if he tried that crap with her.

She is a controlling bitch period. While he is not totally blameless, how long do you think he could put up with that crap before saying enough? You could tell they were a dysfunctional couple if you ever really looked at them. There was never any "teamwork" going on, just Kate standing around bitching about what Jon needed to do, needed to do NOW and needed to do her way while he schlepped around doing it grumbling under his breath. I'm sorry, but if I had eight kids and my husband took the time to dress them and get them ready while I was doing other things, I would not be chewing his ass for putting the wrong shoes on them, or not putting their little matching outfits on them, I would be thanking my lucky stars I had a husband willing to help at all. Has she admitted she had round the clock help yet, or is she still going with the "I'm doing it all alone" line?
First of all, she is controlling, you are the one labeling her a bitch. If he was unhappy with her behavior, he should have addressed it in a proper manner, not run around with a 23 year old, and disrespect his wife and children. He doesn't seem to be all that bright, he comes across as whiny and selfish. Well, yeah, they are his kids, why shouldn't he dress them? I mean come on...a husband 'willing' to help?.....

I like that you added 'he's not totally blameless', well screwing around on your wife with a 23 year old is big when it comes to blame, then he whines and mopes around, making demands, acting like a pouty child, after HE had the affair. So, no, I don't think you're being too hard on him, adding the part about him not being TOTALLY blameless.

[GOP_FAN]

Mal, I realize that you're posting some sort of blog post, but I find that blog post to be entirely reprehensible and classless. That's just my opinion.

I have to agree, that is reprehensible.

[Buffalo]

I agree.


Hey Jon...what the hell is with the earrings? Do you know how gay you look????
With the Ed Hardy shirts too. 2004 called, it wants it's look back. What a *********. Both of them suck. Both of them should have quit this thing at the first sign of conflict. Pretty sad they choose this path but whatever. Hopefully those kids turn out ok.

[GOP_FAN]

With the Ed Hardy shirts too. 2004 called, it wants it's look back. What a *********. Both of them suck. Both of them should have quit this thing at the first sign of conflict. Pretty sad they choose this path but whatever. Hopefully those kids turn out ok.

No, it's not both, it's Jon, he decided to take this path, he's been trying to dump his family for months. He wants to be single, recapture his youth, discover himself, be the person he 'knows he is'. :rolleyes:

The kids will be fine thanks to Kate, she has secured their future financially, and despite what some are saying here and elsewhere, she's not a rabid pit bull or a controlling bitch. She's a smart woman, has a strong personality, and with that, shall we say, less than brilliant husband of hers, she has taken care of 9 children.

[RTchoke]

First of all, she is controlling, you are the one labeling her a bitch. If he was unhappy with her behavior, he should have addressed it in a proper manner, not run around with a 23 year old, and disrespect his wife and children. He doesn't seem to be all that bright, he comes across as whiny and selfish. Well, yeah, they are his kids, why shouldn't he dress them? I mean come on...a husband 'willing' to help?.....

I like that you added 'he's not totally blameless', well screwing around on your wife with a 23 year old is big when it comes to blame, then he whines and mopes around, making demands, acting like a pouty child, after HE had the affair. So, no, I don't think you're being too hard on him, adding the part about him not being TOTALLY blameless.

My first husband cheated on me AND had a child with the woman, so don't tell me about how this situation is. I lived it. At one point HIS parents even said they would take me over him in a heartbeat because he was such an ass to me despite how well I treated him.

That is how I can look at the dynamic of that couple and see what is there and not be blinded by the PR Kate wants to put out there. What she says on the couch and what she does are two different things.

[tha malcontent™]

Hopefully the announcement will be that they're doing the right thing by their kids and getting the damn cameras out of their lives.

Those (2) Selfish Bastards?... Don't hold your Breath.

:)

peace...

[Buffalo]

No, it's not both, it's Jon, he decided to take this path, he's been trying to dump his family for months. He wants to be single, recapture his youth, discover himself, be the person he 'knows he is'. :rolleyes:

The kids will be fine thanks to Kate, she has secured their future financially, and despite what some are saying here and elsewhere, she's not a rabid pit bull or a controlling bitch. She's a smart woman, has a strong personality, and with that, shall we say, less than brilliant husband of hers, she has taken care of 9 children.
Good mothers do not make their money at the expense of their children.

[Buffalo]

Those (2) Selfish Bastards?... Don't hold your Breath.

:)

peace...
Exactly.

[GOP_FAN]

My first husband cheated on me AND had a child with the woman, so don't tell me about how this situation is. I lived it. At one point HIS parents even said they would take me over him in a heartbeat because he was such an ass to me despite how well I treated him.

That is how I can look at the dynamic of that couple and see what is there and not be blinded by the PR Kate wants to put out there. What she says on the couch and what she does are two different things.

I watched both of them, with the kids during filming, and the personal interviews, as well as outside sources, and she's pretty consistent. Now it is true that Kate has excellent verbal skills, she's very articulate and a gifted speaker, Jon....well, Jon isn't. He does communicate in other ways, what he does say is that he concerned about himself, he mentions that alot, that he's only 32(huge eye roll) that he and Kate are moving in different directions, and that he needs to make a choice, well he made it. I said early on, the guy doesn't want to be married, he's got the hots for the 23 year old, and that's all he thinks about.

He's a jerk, he cheated on his wife, he thinks about himself incessantly, and he pouts and whines, instead of communicating openly and constructively, a jerk. I would think your personal experience would make you more sensitive to what Kate is going through, instead of the other way around. The fact that you had a bad experience, and I am sorry about that, doesn't take away from what another is going through. You're right, when the cameras are off, people probably behave differently, and we've seen how he behaves when he didn't know the cameras were rolling.

[GOP_FAN]

Good mothers do not make their money at the expense of their children.

Why is it at the expense of her children?

Good fathers do not have affairs, then pout and whine like they are the victim.

[Buffalo]

Why is it at the expense of her children?

Good fathers do not have affairs, then act pout and whine like they are the victim.
Maybe you have a different idea about how to raise children. I'd prefer them not be used, much of their lives put on public display, to make money. He is not a good father. Her not being a good mother does not mean I think he's a good father. They are two selfish self absorbed people whose lives are taking the path they set them on. I hope the kids grow up ok.

[GOP_FAN]

Maybe you have a different idea about how to raise children. I'd prefer them not be used, much of their lives put on public display, to make money. He is not a good father. Her not being a good mother does not mean I think he's a good father. They are two selfish self absorbed people whose lives are taking the path they set them on. I hope the kids grow up ok.

They are filmed 3 days a week, I think, maybe 4, but the cameras are not there all the time. The show has afforded them advantages that give them private schools, a large home, the ability to travel, and yes, child care help. Personally, I don't think you can attend to 6 kids all the same age without some assistance, plus 2 others without some help, somebody's going to lack attention or supervision at some point, I don't begrudge them that at all. Oh, and they have excellent health coverage, and taxpayers don't have to pay for it, which is a refreshing change. If they need some therapy to deal with the divorce, Kate will have the funds and the knowledge, to provide it for them. It's not perfect, but it's not like they have a camera on them 24/7, and they have a number of advantages because they do the show. There are many other kids who have, and will continue, to suffer through divorce, and they won't have what's available to these kids.

Who can afford 8 kids? Not me, I can't even imagine, groceries, paper goods, clothing, medicine, shoes, personal items, the additional utility costs, it just goes on and on.

[birddog1]

First of all, she is controlling, you are the one labeling her a bitch. If he was unhappy with her behavior, he should have addressed it in a proper manner, not run around with a 23 year old, and disrespect his wife and children. He doesn't seem to be all that bright, he comes across as whiny and selfish. Well, yeah, they are his kids, why shouldn't he dress them? I mean come on...a husband 'willing' to help?.....

I like that you added 'he's not totally blameless', well screwing around on your wife with a 23 year old is big when it comes to blame, then he whines and mopes around, making demands, acting like a pouty child, after HE had the affair. So, no, I don't think you're being too hard on him, adding the part about him not being TOTALLY blameless.

You seem to be very selective in laying blame here. Just like him she had also been accused of cheating.

As for the bitch label I am pretty sure that anyone with the ability to hear and or see will lump her in that category.

Just face the facts she is a controlling bitch and he is an irresponsible immature person. The way they interacted pretty much guaranteed a divorce even without the bus load of kids.

[RTchoke]

You seem to be very selective in laying blame here. Just like him she had also been accused of cheating.

As for the bitch label I am pretty sure that anyone with the ability to hear and or see will lump her in that category.

Just face the facts she is a controlling bitch and he is an irresponsible immature person. The way they interacted pretty much guaranteed a divorce even without the bus load of kids.

Pretty much.

[GOP_FAN]

You seem to be very selective in laying blame here. Just like him she had also been accused of cheating.

As for the bitch label I am pretty sure that anyone with the ability to hear and or see will lump her in that category.

Just face the facts she is a controlling bitch and he is an irresponsible immature person. The way they interacted pretty much guaranteed a divorce even without the bus load of kids.

Only one person has been accused of having an affair, that is Jon, and there is evidence, and he's all but admitted it. On the other hand she has had rumors and innuendos from less than reputable sources, those are the facts.

That's nice of you, labeling her a 'controlling bitch' and him an 'immature person', talk about selective blame.

I don't think she's a bitch, and I can hear and see. She had a couple of moments where she came across that way during filming, it's just not as big a deal as some would like to believe.

[GOP_FAN]

Pretty much.

As were you and others, who were so quick to give Jon a pass, while condemning Kate because she's controlling. I don't like piling on, and women in particular are quick to blame the woman in these situations. I'm simply telling it like I see it, Jon is a lazy, immature, whiny, selfish, cheating jerk.

[5thIDSoldier]

Child support payments for 8 kids is a frightening prospect.

I will tell you this: I firmly believe that Kate has been dramatically changed by the money, and this led to Jon's affair. It takes 2 to make or break a marriage, and neither party is innocent in all of this.

[GOP_FAN]

As were you and others, who were so quick to give Jon a pass, while condemning Kate because she's controlling. I don't like piling on, and women in particular are quick to blame the woman in these situations. I'm simply telling it like I see it, Jon is a lazy, immature, whiny, selfish, cheating jerk.

Oops sorry RT Choke, I didn't see that you emphasized the part about guaranteed divorce, in bold letters. I thought you were agreeing with the selective blame, which is why I responded that way.

Well, you probably did agree :lol: but that wasn't your post. Anyway, hope I haven't confused you guys too much.

[RTchoke]

Oops sorry RT Choke, I didn't see that you emphasized the part about guaranteed divorce, in bold letters. I thought you were agreeing with the selective blame, which is why I responded that way.

Well, you probably did agree :lol: but that wasn't your post. Anyway, hope I haven't confused you guys too much.

Even kate admitted they probably would have ended up where they are.

Kate suggested that she believed the separation would have happened with or without the reality show.

"This is the next chapter," she said. "Not a chapter that's been brought on by our show, not a chapter that's been caused by our career choices at all.

"I believe it's a chapter that would have been played out whether the world was watching or not, in hindsight," she said.