Catholic: Q & A

[Dancer]

It's been suggested, hinted and everything but done...so I did it.

Post your Catholic questions and answers here...

My first question:
I have to ask a question regarding the nuns teaching... (not having been raised Catholic, merely catholic ;) )

To be a nun, does one have to a have a degree in Catholic theology? I realize that she must be Catholic, but how extensive does her knowledge of Catholic doctrine have to be?

Here is an example of why I ask:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,923370,00.html

In addition, based on discussions that have come up about Jesuits and priests at the diocesan level, do you think all/most priests (at that level) teach/know Catholic doctrine at the same level that a Bishop would be able to instruct? How can one know if the priest or nun they are entrusting their religious education to is in fact, educated themselves?

[Meriweather]

Dancer, I am not the best authority on this, but this is my understanding.

Most orders like their members to have a college degree before they take their final vows. Back in the early to mid 1900s, when women normally did not pursue college degrees, many nuns did in the field of nursing and teaching.

Growing up, I did know of a few young women (at the time they seemed like old ladies to me) who were pursuing degrees along with their vocations.

Did you have a particular order in mind?

[meggers49]

It's been suggested, hinted and everything but done...so I did it.

Post your Catholic questions and answers here...

My first question:

I have to ask a question regarding the nuns teaching... (not having been raised Catholic, merely catholic )

To be a nun, does one have to a have a degree in Catholic theology? I realize that she must be Catholic, but how extensive does her knowledge of Catholic doctrine have to be?

Here is an example of why I ask:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...923370,00.html

In addition, based on discussions that have come up about Jesuits and priests at the diocesan level, do you think all/most priests (at that level) teach/know Catholic doctrine at the same level that a Bishop would be able to instruct? How can one know if the priest or nun they are entrusting their religious education to is in fact, educated themselves?


They don't have to have a degree in anything. Many do, in various things. They are schooled in the faith, scripture, etc.

Priests and Bishops have the same knowledge when it comes to instructing. the difference is the Bishop's role in 'running the diocese'. His word is the final word on matters of interpretation etc, UNLESS he's doing something immoral or contrary to Canon Law. then you can go to higher levels.

As to knowing how to trust them...that has been an issue in this Church for the last few decades.....cuz folks who should have known better decided to play fast and loose with the rules. So, you have to find a person who is faithful to the magesterium and that will be a good guide.

ETA: that is very cursory and definately not all the info that i KNOW others have.

[Dancer]

Dancer, I am not the best authority on this, but this is my understanding.

Most orders like their members to have a college degree before they take their final vows. Back in the early to mid 1900s, when women normally did not pursue college degrees, many nuns did in the field of nursing and teaching.

Growing up, I did know of a few young women (at the time they seemed like old ladies to me) who were pursuing degrees along with their vocations.

Did you have a particular order in mind?lol no, I was thinking of someone who used the example of asking nuns theological questions and getting answers that didn't match Catholic doctrine on the subject.

[buflineks]

I have an image in my head of that guy from Vegas saying..............


"LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE".


I don't know what her knowledge of Doctrine is. She should have a basic understanding.

As to her running for political office, she should have known that one.

Disagreements over authority have arisen over the centuries. The Archbishop's order to resign is well within his brief. Now it becomes a matter of is she, or isn't she.

This is why Canon lawyers practice what they practice.

I'm sure others such as Arch are better qualified to answer the majority of your question.

However, speaking from a knowledge of History..............She's up against some pretty long odds. She will have to appeal to an ecclesiastical court if she thinks that the ruling by the ArchBishop is unfair. She has that right. But I wouldn't put any money on the odds that she'll win.

[Dancer]

But is it possible for a nun or priest (I would hope a priest would know better though) to give definitions of doctrinal matters that are incorrect? For another example: My FIL once said he got into a chat with a priest who said that Jesus could have been a space alien and the Star of Bethlehem could have been a space ship. My father in law is VERY stuck on that picture now.

While I realize that is theoretical, it really doesn't sound like something I would tell a layperson Catholic, were I an instructor in the faith.

[buflineks]

But is it possible for a nun or priest (I would hope a priest would know better though) to give definitions of doctrinal matters that are incorrect? For another example: My FIL once said he got into a chat with a priest who said that Jesus could have been a space alien and the Star of Bethlehem could have been a space ship. My father in law is VERY stuck on that picture now.

While I realize that is theoretical, it really doesn't sound like something I would tell a layperson Catholic, were I an instructor in the faith.

Of course it''s possible.

that is how heresies come about.

A priest may think that he has it all figured out. But then the Church steps in and says."..........uh..........NO!"

Now the priest has a decision to make. Is he willing to accept the True Teachings of the Church, or is he gonna go off on his own and risk the consequences.

Priests and Nuns are just as fallible as everyone else. My favorite priests are the ones who I ask a question of and they say, "I don't know. But I'll see what I can find out about it."

[outdamyboat]

I'm so excited!! I have SO many questions!! But, I just had a phone appt. and now American Idol....brc...

[Meriweather]

I'm so excited!! I have SO many questions!! But, I just had a phone appt. and now American Idol....brc...


No, Catholics do not worship American Idols. :razz: :mrgreen:

[outdamyboat]

That nuns fried toast, IMO. I'm not Catholic but....I don't see her lasting long. She's a rebel.

In the Pentecostal circles, she would probably be considered a real 'Jezebel'. And, her ministry would be gone in a Pentecostal church if she refused to listen to the Pastor or Church Board.

Oh...tell me when it's my turn!!!

[Dancer]

That nuns fried toast, IMO. I'm not Catholic but....I don't see her lasting long. She's a rebel.

In the Pentecostal circles, she would probably be considered a real 'Jezebel'. And, her ministry would be gone in a Pentecostal church if she refused to listen to the Pastor or Church Board.

Oh...tell me when it's my turn!!!Don't take turns! It's like the pool. Just jump in, the water's fine!


*sneaks over and pushes outdamyboat out of her boat* :whistle:

[outdamyboat]

Don't take turns! It's like the pool. Just jump in, the water's fine!


*sneaks over and pushes outdamyboat out of her boat*:whistle:

Okay..I'm dried off...so

What is the 'Cursillo' movement/retreats and has any one ever gone on one?

(I'm excited b/c I ask questions on those 'Catholic Forums' and never get any answers)

[Dancer]

http://www.natl-cursillo.org/whatis.html

Is that what you are talking about? I have never heard of it, but they are meeting this summer about a half hour from me.

Edit to add: This is interesting...the founder only recently passed away. It is a history of how he came to found the movement.

http://www.natl-cursillo.org/news/nmail0408.pdf

I have never been on a retreat, but it does look interesting.

[terri910]

I keep thinking of some friends of ours.

Occasionally either the husband or wife will say something, related to Catholic doctrine (they are professed Catholics) that....well, are things that make you go "hmmmm..."

On the subject of artificial birth control she once said that their priest had told them that the decision to use or not use it was "something between them and God."

I just hoped that I wasn't getting the whole picture of that conversation. I mean, ultimately, yes, EVERY decision we make is between ourselves and God....but I was certainly left with the impression that they thought the Church teaches that "whatever you decide is fine."

I don't know whether to even call such a concept as "Catholic Lite"....so much as..."Huh? Catholic? Are you sure?"

[archangelo]

It's been suggested, hinted and everything but done...so I did it.

Post your Catholic questions and answers here...

My first question:

The education of a religious, its form and purpose, is determined by the particular community. Some orders are teaching orders, others are not. Religious life almost always has a learning component, but that doesn't mean the purpose of the training is to prepare the religious to teach the faith, nor anything else for that matter.

[Hadassah]

Okay..I'm dried off...so

What is the 'Cursillo' movement/retreats and has any one ever gone on one?

(I'm excited b/c I ask questions on those 'Catholic Forums' and never get any answers)

what Catholic forums have you been on?

[archangelo]

lol no, I was thinking of someone who used the example of asking nuns theological questions and getting answers that didn't match Catholic doctrine on the subject.

Historically, there have been monks who were quite spiritual but were considered to be too stupid to celebrate Mass or hear confessions! A person's membership in a religious community, and the fact that a person has taken vows, doe not serve as certification to teach, or even to comment on, theological matters.

[Snow]

That nuns fried toast, IMO. I'm not Catholic but....I don't see her lasting long. She's a rebel.

In the Pentecostal circles, she would probably be considered a real 'Jezebel'. And, her ministry would be gone in a Pentecostal church if she refused to listen to the Pastor or Church Board.

Oh...tell me when it's my turn!!!

There would be nothing to prevent her from starting her own Pentecostal church and teach whatever she wanted.

[archangelo]

But is it possible for a nun or priest (I would hope a priest would know better though) to give definitions of doctrinal matters that are incorrect? For another example: My FIL once said he got into a chat with a priest who said that Jesus could have been a space alien and the Star of Bethlehem could have been a space ship. My father in law is VERY stuck on that picture now.

While I realize that is theoretical, it really doesn't sound like something I would tell a layperson Catholic, were I an instructor in the faith.

Yes, being a religious or a priest does not necessarily qualify you as an expert theologian. It also doesn't prevent you from losing you mind sometime after vows and/or ordination.

[archangelo]

I keep thinking of some friends of ours.

Occasionally either the husband or wife will say something, related to Catholic doctrine (they are professed Catholics) that....well, are things that make you go "hmmmm..."

On the subject of artificial birth control she once said that their priest had told them that the decision to use or not use it was "something between them and God."

I just hoped that I wasn't getting the whole picture of that conversation. I mean, ultimately, yes, EVERY decision we make is between ourselves and God....but I was certainly left with the impression that they thought the Church teaches that "whatever you decide is fine."

I don't know whether to even call such a concept as "Catholic Lite"....so much as..."Huh? Catholic? Are you sure?"

Ahh...the "between you and God" clause. Many times, it's referred to as "forming your conscience." They never get around to finals, though -- when one forms his or her conscience, it is to be done in an "informed" way and, in the end, the test of its correctness is whether or not it matches Church teaching on the matter! In other words, a correctly formed conscience can never be contradictory to Church teaching! :doh:

[RayMan]

There would be nothing to prevent her from starting her own Pentecostal church and teach whatever she wanted.


Too true.

[Meriweather]

I keep thinking of some friends of ours.

Occasionally either the husband or wife will say something, related to Catholic doctrine (they are professed Catholics) that....well, are things that make you go "hmmmm..."

On the subject of artificial birth control she once said that their priest had told them that the decision to use or not use it was "something between them and God."

I just hoped that I wasn't getting the whole picture of that conversation. I mean, ultimately, yes, EVERY decision we make is between ourselves and God....but I was certainly left with the impression that they thought the Church teaches that "whatever you decide is fine."

I don't know whether to even call such a concept as "Catholic Lite"....so much as..."Huh? Catholic? Are you sure?"

In some instances, priests were caught between a rock and a hard place. Back in the days of Pope Paul VI, there was a short period of time when Catholics thought that the Pope would give approval to artificial birth control. He seemed set to. . . . but his final word was no. From what I remember reading, Pope Paul VI felt the Holy Spirit played a huge part in his forming his final decision. Praying over the issue he foresaw that artificial birth control was only the first step to devaluing human life. He feared that once this devaluation occurred, it could only lead in one direction--further devaluation of human life--i.e., abortion. And, of course, hindsight shows us that in secular society, this is exactly what occurred. Birth control didn't lead to just "wanted" babies being born; it led to babies being aborted. . . .that next step Pope Paul VI feared.

The church kept with natural means of birth control, which worked for some, but by no means all. What then, was a Catholic family to do, when another child would put an unmanageable financial, emotional burden on an already over-stressed family? Here I am speaking of something well beyond "inconvenience." The Catholic catechism teaches that the final arbitrator/judge for what constitutes sin is God.

While some might smile cyncially at this and remark, "Nice loophole," it is more than that. The Pope has a Church to guide and his decisions have to be made with the good of the whole in mind. In doing this, it is also recognized that there can be circumstances in what is best for the whole might be the worst possible thing for the one. Hopefully, however, between Church, priest, parishioner, prayer, and God, right and holiness prevails.

[archangelo]

In some instances, priests were caught between a rock and a hard place. Back in the days of Pope Paul VI, there was a short period of time when Catholics thought that the Pope would give approval to artificial birth control. He seemed set to. . . . but his final word was no. From what I remember reading, Pope Paul VI felt the Holy Spirit played a huge part in his forming his final decision. Praying over the issue he foresaw that artificial birth control was only the first step to devaluing human life. He feared that once this devaluation occurred, it could only lead in one direction--further devaluation of human life--i.e., abortion. And, of course, hindsight shows us that in secular society, this is exactly what occurred. Birth control didn't lead to just "wanted" babies being born; it led to babies being aborted. . . .that next step Pope Paul VI feared.

The church kept with natural means of birth control, which worked for some, but by no means all. What then, was a Catholic family to do, when another child would put an unmanageable financial, emotional burden on an already over-stressed family? Here I am speaking of something well beyond "inconvenience." The Catholic catechism teaches that the final arbitrator/judge for what constitutes sin is God.

While some might smile cyncially at this and remark, "Nice loophole," it is more than that. The Pope has a Church to guide and his decisions have to be made with the good of the whole in mind. In doing this, it is also recognized that there can be circumstances in what is best for the whole might be the worst possible thing for the one. Hopefully, however, between Church, priest, parishioner, prayer, and God, right and holiness prevails.

True. It becomes a problem when it's treated as convenient and becomes a common, rather than a rare, counsel.

[Meriweather]

True. It becomes a problem when it's treated as convenient and becomes a common, rather than a rare, counsel.

Agreed. Misused and it makes laughingstocks out of every Catholic.

[outdamyboat]

Okay...past childbearing years (Oh...I think ?)

I guess I was taught and always thought (Catholic home) that the only acceptable method of 'family spacing' was through Natural Family Planning. We just had a discussion this past week w/ my daughters and my parents...my girls (older teens) asked my parents what the present Church teaching was and they indicated it was still 'freely accepting children' (wedding vows) and NFP.

Interestingly, I have more friends w/ large families in my Pentecostal circles then in my Catholic circles(siblings included); many 'other Christians' are very careful/selective about the type of artificial birth control they use...... Did you see the article/video on the Evangelical family w/ 18 children!!!??
Most of our friends have 5 or 6 children...one couple has 11....BUT tonight I also have a Catholic friend who is expecting number 7.

Do you see large families in the Catholic church......among 'serious' young couples? How much teaching is done on 'children being a blessing'? or is this generally taught informally in families?

[outdamyboat]

Hadassah,
I will 'pm' you b/c I dont want to disparage any forum...

[Meriweather]

Okay...past childbearing years (Oh...I think ?)

I guess I was taught and always thought (Catholic home) that the only acceptable method of 'family spacing' was through Natural Family Planning. We just had a discussion this past week w/ my daughters and my parents...my girls (older teens) asked my parents what the present Church teaching was and they indicated it was still 'freely accepting children' (wedding vows) and NFP.

Interestingly, I have more friends w/ large families in my Pentecostal circles then in my Catholic circles(siblings included); many 'other Christians' are very careful/selective about the type of artificial birth control they use...... Did you see the article/video on the Evangelical family w/ 18 children!!!??
Most of our friends have 5 or 6 children...one couple has 11....BUT tonight I also have a Catholic friend who is expecting number 7.

Do you see large families in the Catholic church......among 'serious' young couples? How much teaching is done on 'children being a blessing'? or is this generally taught informally in families?

I don't see as many as I used to see when I was growing up. (I was a member of a family of ten--which was considered one of the 'smaller' larger families. (There were a few with twelve or fourteen.) Absolutely children are still looked upon as a blessing, but from my own observation I would say that Catholic families are smaller than they once were.

[outdamyboat]

Well, I have to go to sleep tomorrows a 10 hr day...but don't go too far away.

I loved the Charasmatic Movement that I experienced as a young Catholic. Is there still a Charasmatic renewal in the Church? Is there any official Vatican or American Bishops statements on the Catholic Charismatic Movement?

(I still want more info on those retreats too!....no one's gone?)

[Poisonshady313]

I have an image in my head of that guy from Vegas saying..............


"LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE".



I think it's a violation of the 614th commandment to forget the name Michael Buffer.

[outdamyboat]

I think it's a violation of the 614th commandment to forget the name Michael Buffer.

Did you mean: Is it a violation of the 614th commandment to forget the name of Michael Buffer?

(You have to wait in line , Poisonshady...I still have 2 questions in the queue :confused:)

[Andrew_980]

Honest question. Are the practices of mexican catholics consdered heretical? Things like the day of the day/ancester worship, elements of native religion, ect.

[Meriweather]

Honest question. Are the practices of mexican catholics consdered heretical? Things like the day of the day/ancester worship, elements of native religion, ect.

No. Dia de los Muertos (Day of the Dead) is celebrated in Mexico on November 1 and November 2 in connection with Catholic holy days, All Saints Day and All Souls Day. Mexicans are not "worshipping" their ancestors on these day, but honoring and remembering them. Mexicans make more of a celebration of this than do Catholics in the United States. I mark these days as very special, myself, but it is the Mexicans who do these days proud.

The Church also respects cultural differences.

[Apatriot]

It's been suggested, hinted and everything but done...so I did it.

Post your Catholic questions and answers here...

My first question:


Most (if not all) priests have a master's degree in theology. I'm not sure about nuns.

[buflineks]

I think it's a violation of the 614th commandment to forget the name Michael Buffer.


Oy!!!!!!!!

What's a poor Goy to do?:mrgreen:

[terri910]

Do you see large families in the Catholic church......among 'serious' young couples?
Well...I'm thinking of a family in our Church that lives near us (he is a professor at private Catholic college nearby)...They have "stair-step" children! The oldest is now probably around 21 (so the couple may not qualify as "young" any more)....the youngest is probably nearing 12 or 13...and I think the children were spaced about 16-18 months apart!....do the math! *L*

[Hadassah]

Well...I'm thinking of a family in our Church that lives near us (he is a professor at private Catholic college nearby)...They have "stair-step" children! The oldest is now probably around 21 (so the couple may not qualify as "young" any more)....the youngest is probably nearing 12 or 13...and I think the children were spaced about 16-18 months apart!....do the math! *L*

I am so jealous.

[noelle12]

I think it's a violation of the 614th commandment to forget the name Michael Buffer.

Not to put my ignorance on display for all to see, but what if I never knew who Michael Buffer was? I didn't forget, thus violate any commandment, just never knew. Maybe I should look him up before I post this, but I feel like living dangerously.

[noelle12]

Okay...past childbearing years (Oh...I think ?)

I guess I was taught and always thought (Catholic home) that the only acceptable method of 'family spacing' was through Natural Family Planning. We just had a discussion this past week w/ my daughters and my parents...my girls (older teens) asked my parents what the present Church teaching was and they indicated it was still 'freely accepting children' (wedding vows) and NFP.

Interestingly, I have more friends w/ large families in my Pentecostal circles then in my Catholic circles(siblings included); many 'other Christians' are very careful/selective about the type of artificial birth control they use...... Did you see the article/video on the Evangelical family w/ 18 children!!!??
Most of our friends have 5 or 6 children...one couple has 11....BUT tonight I also have a Catholic friend who is expecting number 7.

Do you see large families in the Catholic church......among 'serious' young couples? How much teaching is done on 'children being a blessing'? or is this generally taught informally in families?

I come from a family of 13 kids (I'm #12), and I have been asked more times than I can remember if I am catholic or Mormon. (The answer is Mormon, BTW.)

[Dancer]

Honest question. Are the practices of mexican catholics consdered heretical? Things like the day of the day/ancester worship, elements of native religion, ect.I know that Meri already answered this, but I am also going to answer based on my first experiences with Catholicism in South Texas. I hope that I don't upset or offend anyone with what I am about to say.

The Santaria aspects that have permeated Catholicism in some parts of the world are definitely not approved by the Church. Someone else could probably answer this better, but I know for certain that some of the cultural things that you might be referring to (having experienced them first hand) are NOT approved by the Church...although they might appear to be approved in certain areas of the country.

I was told that my husband was not a 'real Catholic' because he did not practice certain (very odd) rituals like tying a red ribbon to the bed to protect the baby from evil spirits. That is not to say that Mexicans Catholic in general practice these rituals, but the whole 'having a witch come to your house to see if someone buried a dog bone to curse you and anyone who ever lives in the house with'...that is NOT Catholic.

*In case anyone couldn't tell, my experiences with Catholicism have been hit or miss...in my younger years I lumped it all together, but as I am aging, I am learning to discern the difference between what people 'say' is ok to the Church and what is actually ok to the Church.

[meggers49]

Okay..I'm dried off...so

What is the 'Cursillo' movement/retreats and has any one ever gone on one?

(I'm excited b/c I ask questions on those 'Catholic Forums' and never get any answers)

i have never gone, but my neighbor does Koinonia retreats, which she says are the protestant version of Cursillo. They are supposed to be very spiritual. it sounds like it would be a great time.

[meggers49]

No. Dia de los Muertos (Day of the Dead) is celebrated in Mexico on November 1 and November 2 in connection with Catholic holy days, All Saints Day and All Souls Day. Mexicans are not "worshipping" their ancestors on these day, but honoring and remembering them. Mexicans make more of a celebration of this than do Catholics in the United States. I mark these days as very special, myself, but it is the Mexicans who do these days proud.

The Church also respects cultural differences.

there is that weird cultic group in mexico that has ......gosh what are they called....it looks like the grim reaper as their 'idol'.... Santa Muerte.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1671984,00.html

creeps me out. I don't know if that is what Andrew was talking about. It's a bit further even than Santaria.

I don't even know if they claim to be Catholic with that practice (santa muerte) though people who practice Santaria claim it.

I know Santaria is disavowed by the Church.

[meggers49]

I come from a family of 13 kids (I'm #12), and I have been asked more times than I can remember if I am catholic or Mormon. (The answer is Mormon, BTW.)

you are more likely to see a family that size in a Non-denominational church now than the Catholic Church.....

[Poisonshady313]

Not to put my ignorance on display for all to see, but what if I never knew who Michael Buffer was? I didn't forget, thus violate any commandment, just never knew. Maybe I should look him up before I post this, but I feel like living dangerously.

If you know enough that he's "that guy from vegas" who says "Let's get ready to rumble".... you know him well enough to know his name.

If you don't know any of the above... then you simply don't know. No harm, no foul.

[Harmonious]

Did you mean: Is it a violation of the 614th commandment to forget the name of Michael Buffer?

(You have to wait in line , Poisonshady...I still have 2 questions in the queue :confused:)

No, it wasn't a question for Catholics. It was a statement made tongue-in-cheek, made by a Jew about Jewish commandments. Well, a made up one.

It was a joke. Be done with it.

[Meriweather]

I know that Meri already answered this, but I am also going to answer based on my first experiences with Catholicism in South Texas. I hope that I don't upset or offend anyone with what I am about to say.

The Santaria aspects that have permeated Catholicism in some parts of the world are definitely not approved by the Church. Someone else could probably answer this better, but I know for certain that some of the cultural things that you might be referring to (having experienced them first hand) are NOT approved by the Church...although they might appear to be approved in certain areas of the country.

I was told that my husband was not a 'real Catholic' because he did not practice certain (very odd) rituals like tying a red ribbon to the bed to protect the baby from evil spirits. That is not to say that Mexicans Catholic in general practice these rituals, but the whole 'having a witch come to your house to see if someone buried a dog bone to curse you and anyone who ever lives in the house with'...that is NOT Catholic.

*In case anyone couldn't tell, my experiences with Catholicism have been hit or miss...in my younger years I lumped it all together, but as I am aging, I am learning to discern the difference between what people 'say' is ok to the Church and what is actually ok to the Church.

Good catch, Dancer. I was thinking along the lines of cultural difference that are still in accord with Catholic teaching. You are absolutely correct that the Church would not support paganistic rituals or worship of any false god.

[Poisonshady313]

No, it wasn't a question for Catholics. It was a statement made tongue-in-cheek, made by a Jew about Jewish commandments. Well, a made up one.

It was a joke. Be done with it.

Um... somehow I think you took outdamyboat's post more seriously than he took mine.

[RayMan]

Um... somehow I think you took outdamyboat's post more seriously than he took mine.

Hey PS,
Of course you know that now ODMY is gonna have to let you know that she is not a guy. :razz:

[Harmonious]

Um... somehow I think you took outdamyboat's post more seriously than he took mine.

:redface:

You're probably right. Never mind.

Carry on.

[outdamyboat]

No, it wasn't a question for Catholics. It was a statement made tongue-in-cheek, made by a Jew about Jewish commandments. Well, a made up one.

It was a joke. Be done with it.


Geez, I was just kiddin'
no need to get snippy

[terri910]

It was a joke.
It made me laugh! I thought it was cute!

[outdamyboat]

:redface:

You're probably right. Never mind.

Carry on.

Ok...you live in Dutchess County? Did you see my post on the penut butter thread?

[outdamyboat]

Hey PS,
Of course you know that now ODMY is gonna have to let you know that she is not a guy. :razz:

Well, if he comes to my pool party he will see for himself. :mrgreen:

[RayMan]

Well, if he comes to my pool party he will see for himself. :mrgreen:


:whistle:

[Harmonious]

Ok...you live in Dutchess County? Did you see my post on the penut butter thread?Yup. :mrgreen: You went to my shul!

[archangelo]

Hey! When did this become the "Shuls and Pools" thread!? :eh:

[Meriweather]

Well, I have to go to sleep tomorrows a 10 hr day...but don't go too far away.

I loved the Charasmatic Movement that I experienced as a young Catholic. Is there still a Charasmatic renewal in the Church? Is there any official Vatican or American Bishops statements on the Catholic Charismatic Movement?

(I still want more info on those retreats too!....no one's gone?)


I haven't been involved in the Charismatic Movement. Even as a child, the high energy type of worship did not appeal to me. One of a family of ten, I appreciated the quiet time of resting in the Lord, and that preference has remained with me my entire life. I still find the quietest Mass I can to attend. For over forty years the Charismatic Movement has been thriving without me! (The Spirit guides in different ways.)

I've done a bit of reading so I could answer your question, and from what I have found, the Charismatic Movement has always had support at a high level--including at least three Popes (including Pope Benedict XVI, Pope John Paul II, and Pope Paul VI). As recent as 2006, Pope Benedict the has made statements encouraging and praising Charismatic Renewal.

The link for the best site I found that contains statements from Popes and other officials--and information on retreats follows.

http://www.religion-cults.com/spirit/charismatic.htm

If you are interested, I am thinking the Catholic Church closest to you might have information on all retreats in your area. I know the Church bulletin where I attend is always listing retreat opportunities.

[Harmonious]

Hey! When did this become the "Shuls and Pools" thread!? :eh:
:mrgreen:

[scipio337]

Okay I'm posting what I consider is a misconception about Catholics, namely, that we don't believe in ongoing revelation. Contrary to popular belief, we do, and I give you a revelation very dear to me, the Sacred Heart revelation to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque:

......From early childhood Margaret showed intense love for the Blessed Sacrament, and preferred silence and prayer to childish amusements. After her first communion at the age of nine, she practised in secret severe corporal mortifications, until paralysis confined her to bed for four years. At the end of this period, having made a vow to the Blessed Virgin to consecrate herself to religious life, she was instantly restored to perfect health. The death of her father and the injustice of a relative plunged the family in poverty and humiliation, after which more than ever Margaret found consolation in the Blessed Sacrament, and Christ made her sensible of His presence and protection. He usually appeared to her as the Crucified or the Ecce Homo, and this did not surprise her, as she thought others had the same Divine assistance.........

On 25 May, 1671, she entered the Visitation Convent at Paray, where she was subjected to many trials to prove her vocation, and in November, 1672, pronounced her final vows. She had a delicate constitution, but was gifted with intelligence and good judgement, and in the cloister she chose for herself what was most repugnant to her nature, making her life one of inconceivable sufferings, which were often relieved or instantly cured by our Lord, Who acted as her Director, appeared to her frequently and conversed with her, confiding to her the mission to establish the devotion to His Sacred Heart. These extraordinary occurrences drew upon her the adverse criticism of the community, who treated her as a visionary, and her superior commanded her to live the common life. But her obedience, her humility, and invariable charity towards those who persecuted her, finally prevailed, and her mission, accomplished in the crucible of suffering, was recognized even by those who had shown her the most bitter opposition.........

On December 27, probably 1673, the feast of St. John, Margaret Mary reported that Jesus permitted her, as He had formerly allowed St. Gertrude, to rest her head upon His Heart, and then disclosed to her the wonders of His love, telling her that He desired to make them known to all mankind and to diffuse the treasures of His goodness, and that He had chosen her for this work.

In probably June or July, 1674, Margaret Mary claimed that Jesus requested to be honored under the figure of His Heart of flesh, also claiming that, when He appeared radiant with love, He asked for a devotion of expiatory love: frequent reception of Communion, especially Communion on the First Friday of the month, and the observance of the Holy Hour.

During the octave of Corpus Christi, 1675, probably on June 16, the vision known as the "great apparition" reportedly took place, where Jesus said, "Behold the Heart that has so loved men ... instead of gratitude I receive from the greater part (of mankind) only ingratitude ...", and asked Margaret Mary for a feast of reparation of the Friday after the octave of Corpus Christi, bidding her consult Father de la Colombière, then superior of the small Jesuit house at Paray. Solemn homage was asked on the part of the king, and the mission of propagating the new devotion was especially confided to the religious of the Visitation and to the priests of the Society of Jesus.

A few days after the "great apparition", Margaret Mary reported everything she saw to Father de la Colombière, and he, acknowledging the vision as an action of the Spirit of God, consecrated himself to the Sacred Heart and directed her to write an account of the apparition. He also made use of every available opportunity to circulate this account, discreetly, through France and England. Upon his death on February 15, 1682, there was found in his journal of spiritual retreats a copy in his own handwriting of the account that he had requested of Margaret Mary, together with a few reflections on the usefulness of the devotion.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09653a.htm

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07163a.htm

Christ, in his appearances to Margaret Mary, allegedly promised these blessings to those who practice devotion to his Sacred Heart:

1. I will give them all the graces necessary for their state of life.

2. I will give peace in their families.

3. I will console them in all their troubles.

4. I will be their refuge in life and especially in death.

5. I will abundantly bless all their undertakings.

6. Sinners shall find in my Heart the source and infinite ocean of mercy.

7. Tepid souls shall become fervent.

8. Fervent souls shall rise speedily to great perfection.

9. I will bless those places wherein the image of My Sacred Heart shall be exposed and venerated.

10. I will give to priests the power to touch the most hardened hearts.

11. Persons who propagate this devotion shall have their names eternally written in my Heart.

12. In the excess of the mercy of my Heart, I promise you that my all powerful love will grant to all those who will receive Communion on the First Fridays, for nine consecutive months, the grace of final repentance: they will not die in my displeasure, nor without receiving the sacraments; and my Heart will be their secure refuge in that last hour.

The last promise has given rise to the pious Roman Catholic practice of making an effort to attend Mass and receive Communion on the first Friday of each month.

Great efficacy of converting people has been attached to the use of the image of the Sacred Heart.

"Even at the hour of death, incredulous, indifferent, hardened souls have been converted by simply showing them a picture of the Sacred Heart, which sufficed to restore these sinners to the life of hope and love, in a word, to touch the most hardened. It would, indeed, be a great misfortune to any apostolic man to neglect so powerful a means of conversion, and in proof of this I will mention a single fact which will need no comment. A religious of the Company of Jesus had been requested by the Blessed Margaret Mary to make a careful engraving of the Sacred Heart. Being often hindered by other occupations, there was much delay in preparing this plate. ' This good father,' writes the saint, 'is so much occupied by Mon- signor d'Autun in the conversion of heretics, that he has neither time nor leisure to give to the work so ardently desired by the Heart of our Divine Master. You cannot imagine, my much-loved mother, how greatly this delay afflicts and pains me. I must avow confidently to you my belief that it is the cause of his converting so few infidels in this town. I seem constantly to hear these words : ' That if this good father had acquitted himself at once of his promise to the Sacred Heart, Jesus would have changed and converted the hearts of these infidels, on account of the joy He would have felt at seeing Himself honoured in the picture He so much wishes for. As, however, he prefers other work, even though to the glory of God, to that of giving Him this satisfaction, He will harden the hearts of these infidels, and the labours of this mission will not be crowned with much fruit.'


http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_08051928_miserentissimus-redemptor_en.html

[3inOne]

Thank you for posting this Scipio.

I know about the revelations and promises, but it is good to be reminded of them again.

[Tolkienian]

Okay I'm posting what I consider is a misconception about Catholics, namely, that we don't believe in ongoing revelation. Contrary to popular belief, we do, and I give you a revelation very dear to me, the Sacred Heart revelation to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque:

I think it's more accurate to say we don't believe in ongoing public revelation. In other words, there won't be any more dogmas that haven't been believed since the beginning. Apparitions, devotions, etc. are up to the individual to weigh for him or herself as long as there is nothing against faith or morals about it. If they help one in his faith, more power to him; if not, that's OK too.

[scipio337]

I think it's more accurate to say we don't believe in ongoing public revelation. In other words, there won't be any more dogmas that haven't been believed since the beginning. Apparitions, devotions, etc. are up to the individual to weigh for him or herself as long as there is nothing against faith or morals about it. If they help one in his faith, more power to him; if not, that's OK too.Absolutely.

....while the Church recognizes that God has spoken to His servants in every age, and still continues thus to favour chosen souls, she is careful to distinguish these revelations from the Revelation which has been committed to her charge, and which she proposes to all her members for their acceptance. That Revelation was given in its entirety to Our Lord and His Apostles. After the death of the last of the twelve it could receive no increment. It was, as the Church calls it, a deposit -- "the faith once delivered to the saints" (Jude, 2) -- for which the Church was to "contend" but to which she could add nothing.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13001a.htm

More fun (but lengthly) reading:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html

[scipio337]

Other revelatory devotionals?

[outdamyboat]

I haven't been involved in the Charismatic Movement. Even as a child, the high energy type of worship did not appeal to me. One of a family of ten, I appreciated the quiet time of resting in the Lord, and that preference has remained with me my entire life. I still find the quietest Mass I can to attend. For over forty years the Charismatic Movement has been thriving without me! (The Spirit guides in different ways.)

I've done a bit of reading so I could answer your question, and from what I have found, the Charismatic Movement has always had support at a high level--including at least three Popes (including Pope Benedict XVI, Pope John Paul II, and Pope Paul VI). As recent as 2006, Pope Benedict the has made statements encouraging and praising Charismatic Renewal.

The link for the best site I found that contains statements from Popes and other officials--and information on retreats follows.

http://www.religion-cults.com/spirit/charismatic.htm

If you are interested, I am thinking the Catholic Church closest to you might have information on all retreats in your area. I know the Church bulletin where I attend is always listing retreat opportunities.

Meriweather, have I told you lately that you are a blessing to me?

I think that it is funny that b/c you grew up in a family of 10 that you like 'peace'....I also like peace (Oh, how I hate chaos!!!)

At the same time, for me, experiencing the Catholic Charismatic Movement really profoundly positively affected me spiritually. My mother will tease me that the Charismatic Catholics 'ruined' me....:confused: But, I don't think I'm ruined. I really fell in 'love' with God instead of just being a cultural Christian as a result of the Charismatic movement.

Thanks for the information...:hug:

[archangelo]

I returned to the Church at the age of 19 because I found friends who were "involved in" the Charismatic Renewal. I was never much of an outwardly involved participant, always having had a reserved sort of personality. But I remember appreciating the "Upper Room" feeling of the meetings and Masses. With Reconciliation, I entered a far deeper relationship with God and the Church than I had ever dreamed possible. I was "Baptized in the Spirit," had my gifts revealed to me, and continued for several years before going off to other Catholic pursuits.

Surprisingly enough, I found that those who were really "involved" with the Renewal turned out to be some of the most contemplative persons I have ever known. Certainly, those who remained lodged in the display and emotion often wandered off eventually or repeatedly. It was the ones who developed a contemplative life, yes, even with the sense of mystical quiet one would expect from monks, who stuck with it and brought these blessings back with them to their parishes and families. They are still some of the most orthodox Catholic people I know.

I think that the key for the particular group with which I was affiliated, was that they were devoted to the Blessed Mother and insisted that every meeting end in Mass. Each week, they would invite a priest from the area to celebrate the Mass with them. It was always different priests, so they exposed themselves to a font of advice and encouragement which always placed humility and obedience at the center of their actions. Grounded on the Eucharist, Mary, and the Church, they were about as blessed as any group could possibly be! I know that this is why they avoided many of the problems that have supposedly plagued such groups in terms of their inner workings and the outward manifestations of their faith.

[outdamyboat]

I returned to the Church at the age of 19 because I found friends who were "involved in" the Charismatic Renewal. I was never much of an outwardly involved participant, always having had a reserved sort of personality. But I remember appreciating the "Upper Room" feeling of the meetings and Masses. With Reconciliation, I entered a far deeper relationship with God and the Church than I had ever dreamed possible. I was "Baptized in the Spirit," had my gifts revealed to me, and continued for several years before going off to other Catholic pursuits.

Surprisingly enough, I found that those who were really "involved" with the Renewal turned out to be some of the most contemplative persons I have ever known. Certainly, those who remained lodged in the display and emotion often wandered off eventually or repeatedly. It was the ones who developed a contemplative life, yes, even with the sense of mystical quiet one would expect from monks, who stuck with it and brought these blessings back with them to their parishes and families. They are still some of the most orthodox Catholic people I know.

I think that the key for the particular group with which I was affiliated, was that they were devoted to the Blessed Mother and insisted that every meeting end in Mass. Each week, they would invite a priest from the area to celebrate the Mass with them. It was always different priests, so they exposed themselves to a font of advice and encouragement which always placed humility and obedience at the center of their actions. Grounded on the Eucharist, Mary, and the Church, they were about as blessed as any group could possibly be! I know that this is why they avoided many of the problems that have supposedly plagued such groups in terms of their inner workings and the outward manifestations of their faith.


Glad to know you had a good experience that moved you deeper in your faith, too.

There are some fruit cakes in the charismatic movements of all churches (hey, there's fruitcakes every where). I had an old Pentecostal preacher give such a good word picture of Christianity and the manifestation of the gifts:

1.) Christianity is like cake and the gifts are like icing on the cake.
Some people like cake with no icing. Other folks like cake with just a little icing on the cake, and some like a little more icing on the cake....BUT:

2.) Some people like the icing and throw the cake out....they're often the people that let their emotions rule them, and they're the ones who you need to stay away from.

3.) Cake is the foundation...the icing is just a matter of 'taste'.

I loved that ole guy! I like my cake w/ some icing. I can eat cake plain if I have to...but I would NEVER eat my cake w/ Chunky Peanut Butter Icing !! OMGoodness,...NEVER :snooty:

[Meriweather]

Meriweather, have I told you lately that you are a blessing to me?

Thank you! And right back at you! :hug:

I think that it is funny that b/c you grew up in a family of 10 that you like 'peace'....I also like peace (Oh, how I hate chaos!!!)

At the same time, for me, experiencing the Catholic Charismatic Movement really profoundly positively affected me spiritually. My mother will tease me that the Charismatic Catholics 'ruined' me....:confused: But, I don't think I'm ruined. I really fell in 'love' with God instead of just being a cultural Christian as a result of the Charismatic movement.

Thanks for the information...:hug:

You are quite welcome. I look to the Charismatics to teach the rest of us how to sing (or, to sing at all)!

[outdamyboat]

I look to the Charismatics to teach the rest of us how to sing (or, to sing at all)!

Well, since you mentioned it.....2 questions:

1.) How come most Catholics don't sing in Mass?

2.) How come most Catholics don't take their coats off in church?

:confused:

[terri910]

Well, since you mentioned it.....2 questions:

1.) How come most Catholics don't sing in Mass?

2.) How come most Catholics don't take their coats off in church?

:confused:
Huh????

We do both of those. Always the second, unless we're in a very cold church.

Must be some pre-Vatican II thing....because that sure doesn't describe what I'm familiar with.

[Meriweather]

Well, since you mentioned it.....2 questions:

1.) How come most Catholics don't sing in Mass?

2.) How come most Catholics don't take their coats off in church?

:confused:

1. Just so everyone is aware, Sunday Mass consists of at least four hymns: The entrance hymn, the offertory hymn, the communion hymn, and the final hymn. Often there is also the responsorial psalm, the allelulia, the Gloria, the Lord's prayer, and other times, the Kyrie (Lord have mercy), the Great Amen, the mystery of our faith. Sometimes there is a meditation hymn after communion.

However, in most of the churches I have attended, the singing is only slightly louder than a murmur. All right! I am exaggerating, but not by much. I certainly, am not one to talk. At the beginning of the mass, the choir will go over a new song two or three times and then expect me to be able to sing it! They also seem to be under some impression I can read music, and that I actually have a voice that can produce music. You know what happened the very first time I tried to sign to my baby daughter?! She LAUGHED! Yes, I know, babies aren't able to laugh, but this one did, and I have a witness! And then, at last, she was able to speak her first sentence--and she had been working so hard I just knew it was going to be something profound and important! It was, "Mom don't sing."


2. Interestingly enough, my Mom always had two answers to the coat custom. When there was ten of us squeezing into a pew, she told us there wasn't room to store eight kids and ten coats. Mom also said it was a point of humility--getting dressed in one's Sunday best--but not showing it off if the outside weather required a coat.

[outdamyboat]

1. Just so everyone is aware, Sunday Mass consists of at least four hymns: The entrance hymn, the offertory hymn, the communion hymn, and the final hymn. Often there is also the responsorial psalm, the allelulia, the Gloria, the Lord's prayer, and other times, the Kyrie (Lord have mercy), the Great Amen, the mystery of our faith. Sometimes there is a meditation hymn after communion.

However, in most of the churches I have attended, the singing is only slightly louder than a murmur. All right! I am exaggerating, but not by much. I certainly, am not one to talk. At the beginning of the mass, the choir will go over a new song two or three times and then expect me to be able to sing it! They also seem to be under some impression I can read music, and that I actually have a voice that can produce music. You know what happened the very first time I tried to sign to my baby daughter?! She LAUGHED! Yes, I know, babies aren't able to laugh, but this one did, and I have a witness! And then, at last, she was able to speak her first sentence--and she had been working so hard I just knew it was going to be something profound and important! It was, "Mom don't sing."


2. Interestingly enough, my Mom always had two answers to the coat custom. When there was ten of us squeezing into a pew, she told us there wasn't room to store eight kids and ten coats. Mom also said it was a point of humility--getting dressed in one's Sunday best--but not showing it off if the outside weather required a coat.


1.) I can't sing either...that's why I like it when EVERY BODY sings...I can fake it :mrgreen:

2.) I never took my coat off in Catholic Church until I had gone to non-Catholic Church. One day I went to Mass and I just 'naturally' took my coat off...I got some very strange looks.

I like your mother's answers...are you sure she isn't 1/2 Irish? She sounds Irish to me :angel:

[Meriweather]

1.) I can't sing either...that's why I like it when EVERY BODY sings...I can fake it :mrgreen:

2.) I never took my coat off in Catholic Church until I had gone to non-Catholic Church. One day I went to Mass and I just 'naturally' took my coat off...I got some very strange looks.

I like your mother's answers...are you sure she isn't 1/2 Irish? She sounds Irish to me :angel:

One quarter Irish, but you know the Irish--it can overcome about anything! :razz:

[terri910]

2.) I never took my coat off in Catholic Church until I had gone to non-Catholic Church. One day I went to Mass and I just 'naturally' took my coat off...I got some very strange looks.

I'm gonna have to ask hubby about this. I honestly have never heard of this being any sort of custom or even stereotype.

If I am wearing a coat and go inside and it's not cold, I take off my coat. If anyone has given me strange looks, I guess I was oblivious to it....

[terri910]

Okay, I just asked hubby....

I thought maybe because most of my experiences in Catholic churches have taken place in southern California that maybe I'm just not used to seeing people wear coats at ALL, let alone in Church....

...but he was born and raised Catholic in St. Louis, MO, and believe me, they wore coats every winter. He had NO idea what I was talking about.

His exact words were, "Where do people GET this stuff?" *LOL*....beats me! Apparently not in our parishes!

[outdamyboat]

Okay, I just asked hubby....

I thought maybe because most of my experiences in Catholic churches have taken place in southern California that maybe I'm just not used to seeing people wear coats at ALL, let alone in Church....

...but he was born and raised Catholic in St. Louis, MO, and believe me, they wore coats every winter. He had NO idea what I was talking about.

His exact words were, "Where do people GET this stuff?" *LOL*....beats me! Apparently not in our parishes!

Okay..I think that this is a question for Northeast Catholics....

Why do Northeast Catholics wear coats during Mass?
Or why don't Northeast Catholics take their coats off during Mass?

[Dancer]

I know that in Europe it is considered disrespectful for a woman to go sleeveless inside the church. We were told by our tour guide that if we had sleeveless shirts on, we would be required to keep a jacket on while we were in the building in several towns we visited.

I wonder if the coat thing stems from that? :think:

[archangelo]

Catholic parishes are often made up of as many as 4,000-6,000 (or more) families. These would attend the 5-7 Sunday Masses. Seating is often filled, with ushers jamming whoever they can where they can see a space. It has always been considered rude to "save a space" for your clothing. You don't keep it on your lap because somewhere along the line you will be kneeling and will have to put everything down. You don't drape it over the back of the pew, because the person kneeling behind you will end up with your coat in his/her face. You need to get up and move for Communion, during which you can't be carrying anything. You also can't say that you know everyone in church well enough to let them unrestricted access to your possessions. Parishes are often too big for that.

Where do folks in other churches put their stuff? Do they have coat rooms? Hangers? Catholic churches have never been able to accommodate such things. I never thought about the coat thing, before. I think keeping your coat on is just being practical.

Do you take off you coat when you're shopping or in other public places?

[outdamyboat]

Catholic parishes are often made up of as many as 4,000-6,000 (or more) families. These would attend the 5-7 Sunday Masses. Seating is often filled, with ushers jamming whoever they can where they can see a space. It has always been considered rude to "save a space" for your clothing. You don't keep it on your lap because somewhere along the line you will be kneeling and will have to put everything down. You don't drape it over the back of the pew, because the person kneeling behind you will end up with your coat in his/her face. You need to get up and move for Communion, during which you can't be carrying anything. You also can't say that you know everyone in church well enough to let them unrestricted access to your possessions. Parishes are often too big for that.

Where do folks in other churches put their stuff? Do they have coat rooms? Hangers? Catholic churches have never been able to accommodate such things. I never thought about the coat thing, before. I think keeping your coat on is just being practical.

Do you take off you coat when you're shopping or in other public places?

Well, it depends on the place I'm shopping..ALWAYS take it off at the Danbury Mall (leave it in the car)...but NEVER at Stop and Shop. In 'fancy' restaurants a definite 'yes' but rarely at Wendy's.

In other churches, the services are longer. Joke goes: "What does it mean when the Pastor looks at his watch?" answers is: "Nothing". :)) Occasionally, the Pentecostal pastor would attempt to let us out of service before the Baptist were done...this way we could beat them to the local lunch spots 'restaurants'.

Anyway, we often have carpeted areas where the Catholic pews are located and coats are placed under the pews. Children also can sleep under the pews if the service is very long...I have a lot of fond memories of my girls brought to church in their pj's (pillow in tow)...for an evening service that stretched past bedtime...the kids frequently would fall asleep on the nice carpet w/ a pillow and blanket. (some the the older guys would snore occasionally too).

I do thank you for answering my question, Sir Arch. So...

1.) The Catholic churches are very crowded and it is not polite nor practical to take off coats. (I agree, my Catholic church was always crowded at Sunday Mass,....week days not crowded).

2.) The architecture and the service order of the Mass makes it impractical to store coats below the pews. I would also agree that if the coats were placed under the pews the kneelers would make it a real problem, sir.

As per usual, your answer is written 'teacher style'..which invokes the student to imagine and contrast the two types of services, and to answer my original question, I am 'forced' to answer your questions...which adds to my understanding.

With much appreciation,
Outdamyboat.

[CatholicDefender]

The top 10 reasons to stay Catholic are as follows:

10. It's politically incorrect. (annoy the Catholic bashers).

9. You can sing badly, and no one cares. (9 out of 10 American Catholics are musically impared).

8. You can impress your friends. (Tell them you belong to a militant international institution).

7. Your Mother. (Low cost way to keep her happy).

6. Great weddings! (When it comes to ceremony the Catholic Church is smokin).

5. Great Pope! (Solid foundation beginning with St. Peter, Benedict today is the 265th successor)

4. Saints. (Talk about friends in high places).

3. Confession. (No. it's not fun, but what a deal).

2. Dependability. (Jesus founded our Church on Peter, the Rock, and promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against it).

And the number one reason to stay Catholic is that the awesome gift that no other institution on earth can offer... (Drum roll, please...)

The Eucharist! ("He who eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood has eternal life, and I shall raise him on the last day. For My Flesh is real food and My Blood is real drink. He who eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood lives in Me and I in him".

[outdamyboat]

Okay, I have my Catholic niece living with my family for the summer.

In Catholicism, it is necessarry to go to Mass on Sunday (unless ill, or working etc.) ?

Today I went to Mass with my daughter and niece. An usher asked me if was okay if 'the girls' brought up the offertory gifts. I asked my niece, she was willing, I explained to the usher that my daughter was not Catholic...he said, "It's okay, it doesn't matter."

I was nervous thinking.."Is this really okay? Is this an informed Catholic?...Oh, where are my Catholic Hannity friends when I need them?".

But, I am thinking it is fine because it is just water, wine and bread...the gifts were unconsecrated. Is this correct?

[Meriweather]

Okay, I have my Catholic niece living with my family for the summer.

In Catholicism, it is necessarry to go to Mass on Sunday (unless ill, or working etc.) ?

This is correct.

Today I went to Mass with my daughter and niece. An usher asked me if was okay if 'the girls' brought up the offertory gifts. I asked my niece, she was willing, I explained to the usher that my daughter was not Catholic...he said, "It's okay, it doesn't matter."

I was nervous thinking.."Is this really okay? Is this an informed Catholic?...Oh, where are my Catholic Hannity friends when I need them?".

But, I am thinking it is fine because it is just water, wine and bread...the gifts were unconsecrated. Is this correct?

I have never heard that is required or even policy that only Catholics are allowed to bring up the gifts. The girls are acting on behalf of the whole community in presenting the community's gifts. I think it's sweet of your daughter to wish to be a part of this with her cousin. (This answer, however, is only my opinion. If there is Church policy on this, I am not aware of it.)

[CatholicDefender]

Okay, I have my Catholic niece living with my family for the summer.

In Catholicism, it is necessarry to go to Mass on Sunday (unless ill, or working etc.) ?

Today I went to Mass with my daughter and niece. An usher asked me if was okay if 'the girls' brought up the offertory gifts. I asked my niece, she was willing, I explained to the usher that my daughter was not Catholic...he said, "It's okay, it doesn't matter."

I was nervous thinking.."Is this really okay? Is this an informed Catholic?...Oh, where are my Catholic Hannity friends when I need them?".

But, I am thinking it is fine because it is just water, wine and bread...the gifts were unconsecrated. Is this correct?

It would be a Mortal sin to Miss Mass due to personal fault. That would be breaking the 1st and 3rd Commandments. If a person missed due to illness or something that prevents you that you have no control, that would not be a sin.

Anyone can bring down the gifts which is a great thing.

[RayMan]

The top 10 reasons to stay Catholic are as follows:

10. It's politically incorrect. (annoy the Catholic bashers).

9. You can sing badly, and no one cares. (9 out of 10 American Catholics are musically impared).

8. You can impress your friends. (Tell them you belong to a militant international institution).

7. Your Mother. (Low cost way to keep her happy).

6. Great weddings! (When it comes to ceremony the Catholic Church is smokin).

5. Great Pope! (Solid foundation beginning with St. Peter, Benedict today is the 265th successor)

4. Saints. (Talk about friends in high places).

3. Confession. (No. it's not fun, but what a deal).

2. Dependability. (Jesus founded our Church on Peter, the Rock, and promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against it).

And the number one reason to stay Catholic is that the awesome gift that no other institution on earth can offer... (Drum roll, please...)

The Eucharist! ("He who eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood has eternal life, and I shall raise him on the last day. For My Flesh is real food and My Blood is real drink. He who eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood lives in Me and I in him".


Sweet, CD. :mrgreen:

[Hadassah]

Well, since you mentioned it.....2 questions:

1.) How come most Catholics don't sing in Mass?

2.) How come most Catholics don't take their coats off in church?

:confused:

#1 For me, it's because the man or woman in the choir loft is singing in soprano (maybe Tony or Carmella is around???? :think:) and I can't sing along with them and sound good. :mrgreen:

#2 I don't know. I usually take my coat off in church...unless it's cold in there.

[Hadassah]

The top 10 reasons to stay Catholic are as follows:

10. It's politically incorrect. (annoy the Catholic bashers).

9. You can sing badly, and no one cares. (9 out of 10 American Catholics are musically impared).

8. You can impress your friends. (Tell them you belong to a militant international institution).

7. Your Mother. (Low cost way to keep her happy).

6. Great weddings! (When it comes to ceremony the Catholic Church is smokin).

5. Great Pope! (Solid foundation beginning with St. Peter, Benedict today is the 265th successor)

4. Saints. (Talk about friends in high places).

3. Confession. (No. it's not fun, but what a deal).

2. Dependability. (Jesus founded our Church on Peter, the Rock, and promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against it).

And the number one reason to stay Catholic is that the awesome gift that no other institution on earth can offer... (Drum roll, please...)

The Eucharist! ("He who eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood has eternal life, and I shall raise him on the last day. For My Flesh is real food and My Blood is real drink. He who eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood lives in Me and I in him".


#'s 8 and 10 crack me right up! :))

[archangelo]

#'s 8 and 10 crack me right up! :))

Hmmm... :think:

Stranger: What church do you belong to?

Me: The Church Militant...now back away slowly before I get all sacramental on you.

:think:




I like it.

:cool:

[terri910]

6. Great weddings! (When it comes to ceremony the Catholic Church is smokin).

This is sure true.

When my husband first married, the ceremony was held in my Baptist Church (I did not convert until a few years later). It was exactly the kind of ceremony I was used to attending (I'd never attended a Catholic wedding before). Ceremony in the sanctuary, and reception in the Church Hall afterward. The ceremony was scheduled for 6:30 on Saturday evening, and we were receiving guests by 7:00 p.m. The reception consisted of punch and candies/mints and wedding cake. I'll bet we were off on our honeymoon no later than 9:00 p.m.

Now my in-laws were Polish Catholics used Polish or Italian Catholic weddings. The ceremony would be in the early afternoon, and the reception would begin in the afternoon and consist of a live band and dancing, and long banquet tables groaning under the weight of chafing dishes full of all kinds of food. There was eating and drinking and dancing until, well, until the time you'd rented the hall was over.

The family that flew out to attend our wedding (flying from St. Louis to the west coast) were hubby's parents, brother, sister, both grandmothers and a grandfather.

I only found out years later that after the short ceremony and (by comparison) abbreviated receiption, that they stood there looking at one another after throwing rice as we left the Church, saying, "We came all the way out here....and that's all there is?"

:)):)):))

Having attended a few Catholic (and one Polish Catholic) weddings now, I understand.

Waaaaaaaay different than our modest Baptist weddings!

[outdamyboat]

This is sure true.

When my husband first married, the ceremony was held in my Baptist Church (I did not convert until a few years later). It was exactly the kind of ceremony I was used to attending (I'd never attended a Catholic wedding before). Ceremony in the sanctuary, and reception in the Church Hall afterward. The ceremony was scheduled for 6:30 on Saturday evening, and we were receiving guests by 7:00 p.m. The reception consisted of punch and candies/mints and wedding cake. I'll bet we were off on our honeymoon no later than 9:00 p.m.

Now my in-laws were Polish Catholics used Polish or Italian Catholic weddings. The ceremony would be in the early afternoon, and the reception would begin in the afternoon and consist of a live band and dancing, and long banquet tables groaning under the weight of chafing dishes full of all kinds of food. There was eating and drinking and dancing until, well, until the time you'd rented the hall was over.

The family that flew out to attend our wedding (flying from St. Louis to the west coast) were hubby's parents, brother, sister, both grandmothers and a grandfather.

I only found out years later that after the short ceremony and (by comparison) abbreviated receiption, that they stood there looking at one another after throwing rice as we left the Church, saying, "We came all the way out here....and that's all there is?"

:)):)):))

Having attended a few Catholic (and one Polish Catholic) weddings now, I understand.

Waaaaaaaay different than our modest Baptist weddings!


My husband's mother is an Italian Catholic...their wedding tradition is:

When giving the wedding gift of money, they don't seal the envelope until the reception...depending on how 'festive' the ceremony/reception are they determine how much more to put in...or how much money they should take out...

Punch, candies and cake??? Wow, the envelope would of been real light, Terri :whistle: :mrgreen:

[terri910]

My husband's mother is an Italian Catholic...their wedding tradition is:

When giving the wedding gift of money, they don't seal the envelope until the reception...depending on how 'festive' the ceremony/reception are they determine how much more to put in...or how much money they should take out...

Punch, candies and cake??? Wow, the envelope would of been real light, Terri :whistle: :mrgreen:
I'd never heard of envelopes of cash, for wedding gifts, until....well, probably until I watched "The Godfather"! *LOL*

Yup...punch, candies and cake. It was normal to me! It WAS a big cake, though...*LOL* But being a Baptist wedding, no dancing, of course. So, I learned the different ideas of wedding celebrations.....and guess which type has become most prevalent in today's America? Whereas by the time I married I'd never been to a wedding that had anything MORE than punch, candies and cake....I can't remember the last time I went to a wedding that DIDN'T have a sit-down dinner and either a band or DJ and dancing. Do you ever worry about the thousands of dollars that young couples spend for their weddings, though?

When we were married "in the Church" the ceremony was actually in the home of some dear friends of ours (instrumental in leading me to the Catholic faith). I'm sure it cost considerably less than our first wedding...*L*

[outdamyboat]

Do you ever worry about the thousands of dollars that young couples spend for their weddings, though?



No, I worry about the poor fathers who spend thousands and thousands on the weddings...especially, since I have 2 daughters. :eek:

[texan_rep]

Okay, I have my Catholic niece living with my family for the summer.

In Catholicism, it is necessarry to go to Mass on Sunday (unless ill, or working etc.) ?

Today I went to Mass with my daughter and niece. An usher asked me if was okay if 'the girls' brought up the offertory gifts. I asked my niece, she was willing, I explained to the usher that my daughter was not Catholic...he said, "It's okay, it doesn't matter."

I was nervous thinking.."Is this really okay? Is this an informed Catholic?...Oh, where are my Catholic Hannity friends when I need them?".

But, I am thinking it is fine because it is just water, wine and bread...the gifts were unconsecrated. Is this correct?

I can't see any problem with it. The only part of the Mass that non-Catholics can't participate in is receiving the Eucharist.

[texan_rep]

No, I worry about the poor fathers who spend thousands and thousands on the weddings...especially, since I have 2 daughters. :eek:

:((:((:((:((

You had to go and mention that...

[scipio337]

:((:((:((:((

You had to go and mention that...I'm having a difficult time locating this "bride's daddy pays" rule in the Catechism. Could you tell me what paragraph that might be? ;)

[texan_rep]

If you're expecting to use that as your defense, I'd advise you to start saving now...

[scipio337]

If you're expecting to use that as your defense, I'd advise you to start saving now...:doh:

I do have a backup, my "you can start dating when you're 27" rule. They're 3 and 1 1/2 now, so that could buy me a little more time.

[texan_rep]

Lucky you. Mine are 20 and (almost) 18...

I'm...ummm...in a very bad way...

[Apatriot]

Well, since you mentioned it.....2 questions:

1.) How come most Catholics don't sing in Mass?

We don't? I haven't found that to be true.

2.) How come most Catholics don't take their coats off in church?

:confused: A lotof churches are old and drafty.

[Apatriot]

Lucky you. Mine are 20 and (almost) 18...

I'm...ummm...in a very bad way...

Yep. I am thankful that we have two boys......

[outdamyboat]

Lucky you. Mine are 20 and (almost) 18...

I'm...ummm...in a very bad way...
Mine too,:((

And, our girls are always talking about their weddings....Disney World Cinderella's Castle...and my 2 say they are getting married Catholic...

None of that no dancing...no alcohol....Pentecostal wedding for them :snooty:

where did we go wrong???

[outdamyboat]

We don't? I haven't found that to be true.



well, I went to Mass yesterday....singing is pretty sparse in the North East

[CatholicDefender]

well, I went to Mass yesterday....singing is pretty sparse in the North East

Actually the singing isn't that bad here in Texas!

[LeroyBrown]

:doh:

I do have a backup, my "you can start dating when you're 27" rule. They're 3 and 1 1/2 now, so that could buy me a little more time.

I moved my daughter's age of dating to 30. She is almost 4 and has her sights set on a 12 year old boy that she talks about every day when she gets home from preschool.

I've already cornered the boy at church and asked him what his intentions were with my daughter. His mother just roared. When she finally composed herself she said that he would be a big brother/protector.

[outdamyboat]

I moved my daughter's age of dating to 30. She is almost 4 and has her sights set on a 12 year old boy that she talks about every day when she gets home from preschool.

I've already cornered the boy at church and asked him what his intentions were with my daughter. His mother just roared. When she finally composed herself she said that he would be a big brother/protector.

trust your instincts....he's trouble:shifty:

[Tolkienian]

Actually the singing isn't that bad here in Texas!

What kinds of hymns do you sing in Texas?

[Meriweather]

Actually the singing isn't that bad here in Texas!

I agree. The best in about five states I've been in!

[RayMan]

What kinds of hymns do you sing in Texas?

I'm thinking a Gregorian Chant version of "Oh Bury Me Not On The Lone Prairie." But I could be wrong. :mrgreen:

[Meriweather]

I'm thinking a Gregorian Chant version of "Oh Bury Me Not On The Lone Prairie." But I could be wrong. :mrgreen:

And the ever popular, "Yellow Rose of Mary."

[RayMan]

And the ever popular, "Yellow Rose of Mary."

Ya gotta love the classics. And Texas is as much a state of mind as it is a state of the Union.

[archangelo]

I'm having a difficult time locating this "bride's daddy pays" rule in the Catechism. Could you tell me what paragraph that might be? ;)

I could go along with that -- but I want to know what happened to the part about "the bride's daddy gets 12 healthy cows for his troubles?" :eh:

[archangelo]

I moved my daughter's age of dating to 30. She is almost 4 and has her sights set on a 12 year old boy that she talks about every day when she gets home from preschool.

I've already cornered the boy at church and asked him what his intentions were with my daughter. His mother just roared. When she finally composed herself she said that he would be a big brother/protector.

I have no problem with the boyfriends ... I just make sure that the first time they come over I'm polishing the swords...

[Tolkienian]

I could go along with that -- but I want to know what happened to the part about "the bride's daddy gets 12 healthy cows for his troubles?" :eh:

That part was stricken from the 1983 Code of Canon Law I'm afraid :(

[archangelo]

Some of you folks may want to read a few chapters in Thomas Day's 1990 book, Why Catholics Can't Sing: The Culture of Catholicism and the Triumph of Bad Taste (ISBN: 0824510356).

Dated? I think not. But the healing may be just beginning...

:cool:

[Meriweather]

I could go along with that -- but I want to know what happened to the part about "the bride's daddy gets 12 healthy cows for his troubles?" :eh:


:shifty::shifty: Ummmm. I have an ancestor who may have been responsible for that part being removed. You see, he had twelve healthy cows. . . .and every morning his daughter went out and milked them--and again, every evening. The daughter married, came back from a one week honeymoon and found Dad had sold all the cows--he couldn't keep up with all the milking.

[archangelo]

:shifty::shifty: Ummmm. I have an ancestor who may have been responsible for that part being removed. You see, he had twelve healthy cows. . . .and every morning his daughter went out and milked them--and again, every evening. The daughter married, came back from a one week honeymoon and found Dad had sold all the cows--he couldn't keep up with all the milking.

Ah, but who said they had to be dairy cows? :mrgreen:

[outdamyboat]

Some of you folks may want to read a few chapters in Thomas Day's 1990 book, Why Catholics Can't Sing: The Culture of Catholicism and the Triumph of Bad Taste (ISBN: 0824510356).

Dated? I think not. But the healing may be just beginning...

:cool:

Tanks...:mrgreen:

[CatholicDefender]

What kinds of hymns do you sing in Texas?

Same as any other Parish, but people here do sing giving it some energy. "Be Not Afraid" is one of my favorites.

[archangelo]

Same as any other Parish, but people here do sing giving it some energy. "Be Not Afraid" is one of my favorites.

I just have a little difficult keeping up with the:

"Be not afraid -- Yee ha!!! (Blam-blam)
I go before y'all always..."

It's not really the "Yee ha!" and six shooter punctuation that gets me. It's more that I get a little tongue-tied on the back-to-back "y'all all..." It's just linguistically awkward, IMHO.

:shifty:

[CatholicDefender]

I just have a little difficult keeping up with the:

"Be not afraid -- Yee ha!!! (Blam-blam)
I go before y'all always..."

It's not really the "Yee ha!" and six shooter punctuation that gets me. It's more that I get a little tongue-tied on the back-to-back "y'all all..." It's just linguistically awkward, IMHO.

:shifty:

That's funny, they actually do that in Arizona!!! hehehe

[archangelo]

That's funny, they actually do that in Arizona!!! hehehe

My mistake! :redface:

[CatholicDefender]

My mistake! :redface:

hehehe, your awesome my brother!

[3inOne]

Same as any other Parish, but people here do sing giving it some energy. "Be Not Afraid" is one of my favorites.

I love the song Here I am Lord, and apparently so does the rest of the congregation. That is one song that I, as well as the rest in church, will sing with gusto. On Eagles Wings is also beautiful.

[CatholicDefender]

I love the song Here I am Lord, and apparently so does the rest of the congregation. That is one song that I, as well as the rest in church, will sing with gusto. On Eagles Wings is also beautiful.

I sang this song while I was participating with Eucharistic Adoration. It was great to see that I could sing "Here I am Lord" and nobody laugh!

[Meriweather]

I love the song Here I am Lord, and apparently so does the rest of the congregation. That is one song that I, as well as the rest in church, will sing with gusto. On Eagles Wings is also beautiful.


I forget the title of the song, but one I remember from Texas and haven't heard where I am now begins:

Leaping the Mountains,
Bounding the Hills
See how are God has come to meet us.
His voice is lifted
His face is joy
Now is the season to sing our song of love.

I may have some of the words mixed up or confused, but it was something like that.

[3inOne]

I sang this song while I was participating with Eucharistic Adoration. It was great to see that I could sing "Here I am Lord" and nobody laugh!

I am not always the swiftest. Why would anybody laugh at you for singing that song?

[outdamyboat]

I am not always the swiftest. Why would anybody laugh at you for singing that song?

?Musically challenged, perhaps??? tone deaf?? a few possiblilities :mrgreen:

[3inOne]

?Musically challenged, perhaps??? tone deaf?? a few possiblilities :mrgreen:

Alrightie.....


BTW here is another song I really love called Servant Song. It is very melodious. If someone has a good musical rendition, please post it. The one I found was not done very well.

Here are the words. From them you probably know what it sounds like:

Servant Song

Words and Music by Donna Marie McGargill

What do you want of me, Lord?
Where do you want me to serve you?
Where can I sing your praises?
I am Your Song.

Jesus, Jesus, You are the Lord.
Jesus, Jesus Your are the Way.

I hear you call my name, Lord,
and I am move within me.
Your Spirit stirs my deepest self,
Sing Your songs in me.

Jesus, Jesus You are the Lord.
Jesus, Jesus You are the Way.

[archangelo]

hehehe, your awesome my brother!

Hey! Men and women like you who put their lives on the line so that we can be serious or silly in the pursuit of happiness --- now that's awesome!

:clap:

[FoxGranadaChuck]

I have a question for Arch or anyone else who would be able to answer. In the eyes of the Catholic Church, what would my Dad's status be?

Here is why I ask. My Dad got divorced (initiated by him, but encouraged by his ex-wife at that time) before Vatican II. As a consequence of that action, he was viewed as a "black sheep in the family." His only remaining sibling would not come to his funeral almost two (2) years ago. My understanding about pre-Vatican II divorces is that they were not only frowned upon, anyone who divorced was considered anathema. Am I wrong?

[texan_rep]

Mine too,:((

And, our girls are always talking about their weddings....Disney World Cinderella's Castle...and my 2 say they are getting married Catholic...

None of that no dancing...no alcohol....Pentecostal wedding for them :snooty:

where did we go wrong???

well, at least mine aren't talking marriage yet...:shifty:

[texan_rep]

I forget the title of the song, but one I remember from Texas and haven't heard where I am now begins:

Leaping the Mountains,
Bounding the Hills
See how are God has come to meet us.
His voice is lifted
His face is joy
Now is the season to sing our song of love.

I may have some of the words mixed up or confused, but it was something like that.

"Lord of Glory", by Tim Manion. That's an OLD St. Louis Jesuits song...

[texan_rep]

I love the song Here I am Lord, and apparently so does the rest of the congregation. That is one song that I, as well as the rest in church, will sing with gusto. On Eagles Wings is also beautiful.

I love "Here I Am, Lord" as well. "On Eagle's Wings" is nice, but I prefer other songs of his. Fr. Michael Joncas writes some good stuff (IMO), but actually singing it can be work.

[Meriweather]

I have a question for Arch or anyone else who would be able to answer. In the eyes of the Catholic Church, what would my Dad's status be?

Here is why I ask. My Dad got divorced (initiated by him, but encouraged by his ex-wife at that time) before Vatican II. As a consequence of that action, he was viewed as a "black sheep in the family." His only remaining sibling would not come to his funeral almost two (2) years ago. My understanding about pre-Vatican II divorces is that they were not only frowned upon, anyone who divorced was considered anathema. Am I wrong?


I would say 'anathema' would be over stating it, but certainly divorce was considered to be a disgrace. Still, a person could divorce and remain a member of good standing within the church--unless he remarried. Remarriage is what would have made your dad ineligible to receive sacraments.

When I was growing up, one of my Catholic school classmates had a mother in the same situation as your dad. She had divorced (well, okay), but then remarried (uh-oh). This lady had lots of class. After her second marriage, she continued to go to mass without receiving the sacraments, and she continued to raise her children Catholic and to practice her own faith to the greatest extent possible. Still, I remember how voices would automatically lower when her name entered into the conversation. I wouldn't say she was shunned as much as it was known she was, "Not a good example." Come to think of it, she probably felt shunned all the same. Still, I can't imagine people refusing to come to her funeral, or refusing to speak to her or lend their assistance when needed.

(Vatican II took place during my childhood, so the divorce in this situation took place pre-Vatican II, and before Vatican II changed a lot of how people looked at situations of this type. And, of course, back in that day, divorce was fairly uncommon to begin with.)

[CatholicDefender]

I am not always the swiftest. Why would anybody laugh at you for singing that song?

hehehe, you haven't heard me sing!

[FoxGranadaChuck]

I would say 'anathema' would be over stating it, but certainly divorce was considered to be a disgrace. Still, a person could divorce and remain a member of good standing within the church--unless he remarried. Remarriage is what would have made your dad ineligible to receive sacraments.

When I was growing up, one of my Catholic school classmates had a mother in the same situation as your dad. She had divorced (well, okay), but then remarried (uh-oh). This lady had lots of class. After her second marriage, she continued to go to mass without receiving the sacraments, and she continued to raise her children Catholic and to practice her own faith to the greatest extent possible. Still, I remember how voices would automatically lower when her name entered into the conversation. I wouldn't say she was shunned as much as it was known she was, "Not a good example." Come to think of it, she probably felt shunned all the same. Still, I can't imagine people refusing to come to her funeral, or refusing to speak to her or lend their assistance when needed.

(Vatican II took place during my childhood, so the divorce in this situation took place pre-Vatican II, and before Vatican II changed a lot of how people looked at situations of this type. And, of course, back in that day, divorce was fairly uncommon to begin with.)


The highlighted statement was key. My mother was his second wife. Originally, my Mom wanted to raise me Catholic, but neither Dad nor my Grandma Elliot would have any of that! My Dad was angry with the Catholic Church for many years. I am not saying said anger was justifiable; I am merely saying that it was there. My Grandma Elliot wanted me to be nothing other than Church of God (Cleveland, TN).

[Meriweather]

The highlighted statement was key. My mother was his second wife. Originally, my Mom wanted to raise me Catholic, but neither Dad nor my Grandma Elliot would have any of that! My Dad was angry with the Catholic Church for many years. I am not saying said anger was justifiable; I am merely saying that it was there. My Grandma Elliot wanted me to be nothing other than Church of God (Cleveland, TN).


His anger is understandable. I would imagine in cases such as this, the tact and understanding of the individual priests makes a huge difference. While the church (as it should) stands firmly on its teachings, I do think most priests now do what they can to steer a parishioner through this type of crisis so that a personal crisis doesn't also result in a crisis of faith.

The other part, of course, is the very human wish for the Church to make an exception--just this once--and to become angry when that cannot be done. It is a very delicate balance--living up to certain standards--yet not allowing the rule to have more importance than people.

[FoxGranadaChuck]

His anger is understandable. I would imagine in cases such as this, the tact and understanding of the individual priests makes a huge difference. While the church (as it should) stands firmly on its teachings, I do think most priests now do what they can to steer a parishioner through this type of crisis so that a personal crisis doesn't also result in a crisis of faith.

The other part, of course, is the very human wish for the Church to make an exception--just this once--and to become angry when that cannot be done. It is a very delicate balance--living up to certain standards--yet not allowing the rule to have more importance than people.


All of those reasons are exactly why I said that his anger, while understandable, was NOT justifiable. The Catholic Church has to maintain the integrity that it has or it will become very much like the Wild West.

[terri910]

The Catholic Church has to maintain the integrity that it has or it will become very much like the Wild West.
I'm now picturing Pope Benedict XVI in chaps and cowboy hat a la Clint Eastwood in "A Fi****l of Dollars".....

Okay, that was weird! :mrgreen:

[Apatriot]

well, I went to Mass yesterday....singing is pretty sparse in the North East

Thinking about it, it's mainly the younger people who are singing......

[Apatriot]

I moved my daughter's age of dating to 30. She is almost 4 and has her sights set on a 12 year old boy that she talks about every day when she gets home from preschool.

I've already cornered the boy at church and asked him what his intentions were with my daughter. His mother just roared. When she finally composed herself she said that he would be a big brother/protector.


Well, if I had met my wife when she was 4, I would have been 12 :-)

[Apatriot]

I have a question for Arch or anyone else who would be able to answer. In the eyes of the Catholic Church, what would my Dad's status be?

Here is why I ask. My Dad got divorced (initiated by him, but encouraged by his ex-wife at that time) before Vatican II. As a consequence of that action, he was viewed as a "black sheep in the family." His only remaining sibling would not come to his funeral almost two (2) years ago. My understanding about pre-Vatican II divorces is that they were not only frowned upon, anyone who divorced was considered anathema. Am I wrong?

I've always thought that the problem was remarriage after divorce, not divorce.....

[FoxGranadaChuck]

I'm now picturing Pope Benedict XVI in chaps and cowboy hat a la Clint Eastwood in "A Fi****l of Dollars".....

Okay, that was weird! :mrgreen:


I can see Benedict challenging the villain in German with said chaps and cowboy hat.....


Yes Terri, that WAS weird!!!

[Meriweather]

I'm now picturing Pope Benedict XVI in chaps and cowboy hat a la Clint Eastwood in "A Fi****l of Dollars".....

Okay, that was weird! :mrgreen:

:)) It's the first laugh I've had all morning! Thanks. . . .I feel much better.

[FoxGranadaChuck]

I've always thought that the problem was remarriage after divorce, not divorce.....


In the eyes of the Church, as Meriweather said, the remarraige was the main issue of contention. However, Dad's family, being High (pre-Vatican II ) Catholic, frowned upon divorce quite a bit. The divorce was why he was looked upon as being a "black sheep."

[scipio337]

In the eyes of the Church, as Meriweather said, the remarraige was the main issue of contention. However, Dad's family, being High (pre-Vatican II ) Catholic, frowned upon divorce quite a bit. The divorce was why he was looked upon as being a "black sheep."While I believe in the sanctity of marriage, I also believe there is no sin that in unforgivable.

My mother divorced my father when I was 4, and remarried a wonderful man who I've called "Dad" for the past 22 years. She hasn't taken Communion since her divorce, and even mentioned it to the priest before she received her Anointing of the Sick many years ago (she survived a near fatal anuerysim, he still gave her Communion). While it makes me sad to hear such stories, it is much easier now to recieve an annullment and dispensation.

My wife (who starts RCIA classes this fall :dance:) is waiting for an annullment and dispensation from her Catholic ex husband (she did marry in the Church). It has been a relatively quick and painless process.

And no, it doesn't make my children, or her son from the previous marriage "illegitimate".

[FoxGranadaChuck]

While I believe in the sanctity of marriage, I also believe there is no sin that in unforgivable.

My mother divorced my father when I was 4, and remarried a wonderful man who I've called "Dad" for the past 22 years. She hasn't taken Communion since her divorce, and even mentioned it to the priest before she received her Anointing of the Sick many years ago (she survived a near fatal anuerysim, he still gave her Communion). While it makes me sad to hear such stories, it is much easier now to recieve an annullment and dispensation.

My wife (who starts RCIA classes this fall :dance:) is waiting for an annullment and dispensation from her Catholic ex husband (she did marry in the Church). It has been a relatively quick and painless process.

And no, it doesn't make my children, or her son from the previous marriage "illegitimate".


Glad to hear about all of that!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

[hben]

Glad to hear about all of that!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Sorry to sidetrack the topic, but Chuck, what has happened to Vir? I haven't seen her around since I've been back.

[FoxGranadaChuck]

Sorry to sidetrack the topic, but Chuck, what has happened to Vir? I haven't seen her around since I've been back.


Honestly Hben, I don't know! I have been wondering the same thing myself! I know that she had an operation a few months ago, and she is receiving some type of treatments, but I don't know anything more than that now.


I am very much looking forward to hearing from her again!!!

[hben]

Honestly Hben, I don't know! I have been wondering the same thing myself! I know that she had an operation a few months ago, and she is receiving some type of treatments, but I don't know anything more than that now.


I am very much looking forward to hearing from her again!!!

Thanks for that info. I pray that she is doing well. :pray:

[scipio337]

Thanks for that info. I pray that she is doing well. :pray:Ditto!

[FoxGranadaChuck]

Thanks for that info. I pray that she is doing well. :pray:


Kyrie eleison. Christe eleison.

:pray: :pray: :pray:

[scipio337]

I was thinking about using one of my old college papers, "History of Heresies". A look at the historical "heresies", their teachings, why and when they fell out of favor?

Would this be a good topic for the forum?

[Dancer]

I was thinking about using one of my old college papers, "History of Heresies". A look at the historical "heresies", their teachings, why and when they fell out of favor?

Would this be a good topic for the forum?I wouldn't mind reading it.

[Meriweather]

I was thinking about using one of my old college papers, "History of Heresies". A look at the historical "heresies", their teachings, why and when they fell out of favor?

Would this be a good topic for the forum?


I, too, would be interested in reading this. I vote you go for it.

[Hadassah]

Sorry to sidetrack the topic, but Chuck, what has happened to Vir? I haven't seen her around since I've been back.

I believe she went to visit some family members for a few months.

[Hadassah]

I was thinking about using one of my old college papers, "History of Heresies". A look at the historical "heresies", their teachings, why and when they fell out of favor?

Would this be a good topic for the forum?

go for it. :mrgreen:

[terri910]

I believe she went to visit some family members for a few months.
Oh, good. Because I've been worried, too.

[scipio337]

go for it. :mrgreen:After looking over it, it might cause some potential rules of respect problems. Some of the "heresies" (Sabellianism, etc) have similar beliefs held by some denominations today.

I'll have to think this one over.....

[Meriweather]

After looking over it, it might cause some potential rules of respect problems. Some of the "heresies" (Sabellianism, etc) have similar beliefs held by some denominations today.

I'll have to think this one over.....

Maybe you could post selected parts--or change some wordings so that it prompts thoughtful discussion. Lead ins such as, "In the past it was argued. . . .how does everyone see this today. . . ."

However, you know both your paper and RF, so we will leave it to your good judgment. Your paper does sound interesting, however.

[RayMan]

After looking over it, it might cause some potential rules of respect problems. Some of the "heresies" (Sabellianism, etc) have similar beliefs held by some denominations today.

I'll have to think this one over.....

I'm sure a litte rewrite would enable it to pass muster and it would no doubt be of great interest to a number of people here.

[FoxGranadaChuck]

I believe she went to visit some family members for a few months.


Thanks Hadassah!!! I did not know that.

[FoxGranadaChuck]

Oh, good. Because I've been worried, too.


+1!!!

[FoxGranadaChuck]

How is the relationship between the Latin Rite Catholics and the Eastern Rite Catholics? I have heard that it has been quite controversial at times.

[texan_rep]

Really? What have you heard?

Eastern Rite Catholics are fully in communion with Western (Latin) Rite Catholics...but they have their own liturgical rites.

[FoxGranadaChuck]

Really? What have you heard?

Eastern Rite Catholics are fully in communion with Western (Latin) Rite Catholics...but they have their own liturgical rites.


I had heard that the inclusion of the ERCs (Eastern Rite Catholics) has been controversial, mostly centering around the issue of married priests. This was a major sticking point for the Ruthenians to be included in the Catholic Communion.

To be clear, I am not trying to be a troll. I just wanted some clarification on this issue coming from the viewpoint of people who are Catholic.

[Meriweather]

I had heard that the inclusion of the ERCs (Eastern Rite Catholics) has been controversial, mostly centering around the issue of married priests. This was a major sticking point for the Ruthenians to be included in the Catholic Communion.

To be clear, I am not trying to be a troll. I just wanted some clarification on this issue coming from the viewpoint of people who are Catholic.

I haven't heard this myself--in fact, I learned the opposite. Growing up I learned that Greek Orthodox Catholics are welcomed to participate and receive communion in a Roman Catholic church. As a Roman Catholic, attending a Greek Orthodox mass would fulfill my Sunday obligation to attend mass, but that Greek Orthodox, while welcoming my presence, would not want me to receive communion. I've been racking my brain trying to remember the reason for this Roman Catholics not being able to receive communion in a Greek Orthodox church, but memory fails.

Perhaps someone else remembers, but if not, I can look it up later.

[scipio337]

Perhaps this will shed some light, FGC, John Paul's 1995 letter, ORIENTALE LUMEN (lame pun intended!)

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_02051995_orientale-lumen_en.html


sorry, it's a looong read.

[FoxGranadaChuck]

Perhaps this will shed some light, FGC, John Paul's 1995 letter, ORIENTALE LUMEN (lame pun intended!)

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_02051995_orientale-lumen_en.html


sorry, it's a looong read.


Thanks Scipio!!!

[texan_rep]

I had heard that the inclusion of the ERCs (Eastern Rite Catholics) has been controversial, mostly centering around the issue of married priests. This was a major sticking point for the Ruthenians to be included in the Catholic Communion.

To be clear, I am not trying to be a troll. I just wanted some clarification on this issue coming from the viewpoint of people who are Catholic.

Speaking without nuisances of any factual information or experience...

I wouldn't necessarily say "controversial"...too strong a word. More of a "let's think about this a little bit" attitude.

The reason for this is that the Church, both Eastern and Latin "divisions", despite the Pope being the overall Primate, is really administered geographically by the individual primates/metropolitans/archbishops. While there are Eastern Rite eparchies and parishes in the US, they really operate within Latin Rite jurisdictions.

Residents of a region are "supposed" to attend and be members of parishes belonging to the Rite having jurisdiction over that particular area. In other words, as a native-born American Catholic, I am expected to attend and be a member of a Latin Rite parish, although attending an Eastern Rite church would fulfill any obligations I have.

In fact, if we want to get really technical, I am "supposed" to attend the individual parish with jurisdiction over the area where I live. However, at least in the US, holding people to the individual parish where they reside is not enforced. In fact, since I live in a large city, I have (I think) 5 parishes within a 5 mile drive of my house...and I do not actually attend the church in whose parish I reside.

The situation is a bit more touchy when we speak of Eastern Rite vs. Latin Rite parishes in the US, since there ARE liturgical and discipline changes between the rites.

I suspect, with the increased mobility of the world's population over the last 25 years, this "problem" will need to be addressed in a more structured fashion in the very near future.

[BillBrown]

This isn't meant to be confrontational or some kind of "I gotcha", it's an honest question that I have wondered about.

The Pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth. He is Christ's representative.
How does the Church explain the really bad Popes?

[texan_rep]

This isn't meant to be confrontational or some kind of "I gotcha", it's an honest question that I have wondered about.

The Pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth. He is Christ's representative.
How does the Church explain the really bad Popes?

Popes are also human beings.

Christ's promise concerning the "gates of hell" was to His Church...not to individual members or priests or even Popes.

The Pope is considered to be infallible ONLY when speaking to the Church on matters concerning faith and morals. He is NOT considered to be infallible 24/7/365.

This explains it pretty well.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Papal_Infallibility.asp

[BillBrown]

Popes are also human beings.

Christ's promise concerning the "gates of hell" was to His Church...not to individual members or priests or even Popes.

The Pope is considered to be infallible ONLY when speaking to the Church on matters concerning faith and morals. He is NOT considered to be infallible 24/7/365.

This explains it pretty well.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Papal_Infallibility.asp

Thank you, Tex.
Good answer.

[CatholicDefender]

The highlighted statement was key. My mother was his second wife. Originally, my Mom wanted to raise me Catholic, but neither Dad nor my Grandma Elliot would have any of that! My Dad was angry with the Catholic Church for many years. I am not saying said anger was justifiable; I am merely saying that it was there. My Grandma Elliot wanted me to be nothing other than Church of God (Cleveland, TN).

Sometimes the pain is difficult, but it is sometimes just a tough to stand up for the Church. It is always easy to rebell, but to stay faithful to Christ can be the challenge.

[CatholicDefender]

Popes are also human beings.

Christ's promise concerning the "gates of hell" was to His Church...not to individual members or priests or even Popes.

The Pope is considered to be infallible ONLY when speaking to the Church on matters concerning faith and morals. He is NOT considered to be infallible 24/7/365.

This explains it pretty well.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Papal_Infallibility.asp

Christ is always faithful to His friends, I would say that the Pope, being his Prime Minister, has His promise, even so free will is always in play.

[justpassingby]

Newbie here...

My mom is Catholic and couldn't answer this so was wondering if someone could shed some light. I'm LDS by the way but grew up Catholic.

1. Prayer for the dead-IS it just for women to participate in or can men too? In my family, it seems only the women did the praying for the ancestors. The men were alwasys outside. Is that the norm?

2. Also, I'm not sure if this is cultural or a Catholic thing(I'm Filipino), but whenever we've had that prayer for the dead or other type of celebration, we would set aside food for the dead...is this a Catholic tradition or maybe just cultural? My mom said it's been tradition and didn't know how it got started....When we visited my dad's grave she brought a can of Pepsi and beer and left it next to his grave...she said it's just tradition, but I don't know..

Are these common in the Catholic beliefs?

[FoxGranadaChuck]

Speaking without nuisances of any factual information or experience...

I wouldn't necessarily say "controversial"...too strong a word. More of a "let's think about this a little bit" attitude.

The reason for this is that the Church, both Eastern and Latin "divisions", despite the Pope being the overall Primate, is really administered geographically by the individual primates/metropolitans/archbishops. While there are Eastern Rite eparchies and parishes in the US, they really operate within Latin Rite jurisdictions.

Residents of a region are "supposed" to attend and be members of parishes belonging to the Rite having jurisdiction over that particular area. In other words, as a native-born American Catholic, I am expected to attend and be a member of a Latin Rite parish, although attending an Eastern Rite church would fulfill any obligations I have.

In fact, if we want to get really technical, I am "supposed" to attend the individual parish with jurisdiction over the area where I live. However, at least in the US, holding people to the individual parish where they reside is not enforced. In fact, since I live in a large city, I have (I think) 5 parishes within a 5 mile drive of my house...and I do not actually attend the church in whose parish I reside.

The situation is a bit more touchy when we speak of Eastern Rite vs. Latin Rite parishes in the US, since there ARE liturgical and discipline changes between the rites.

I suspect, with the increased mobility of the world's population over the last 25 years, this "problem" will need to be addressed in a more structured fashion in the very near future.



I am so sorry that I have not done this before now, but thank you for your answer, Tex. Very thoughtful. :) :)

[FoxGranadaChuck]

Sometimes the pain is difficult, but it is sometimes just a tough to stand up for the Church. It is always easy to rebell, but to stay faithful to Christ can be the challenge.


Even though I am not Catholic, I agree that churches should stand on the basis of principle regardless of public opinion. If godliness were a matter of public opinion, we would have the Ten Suggestions, not the Ten Commandments.

[loy]

Newbie here...

My mom is Catholic and couldn't answer this so was wondering if someone could shed some light. I'm LDS by the way but grew up Catholic.

1. Prayer for the dead-IS it just for women to participate in or can men too? In my family, it seems only the women did the praying for the ancestors. The men were alwasys outside. Is that the norm?
Men should participate. It seems like most Catholic men consider prayer a woman's job, but that is extremely hypocritical and wrong. It's very common, though. The only possible justification for it is that quite a few prayer groups and activities are organized during the work day, when presumably women have free time while the men are at work.
2. Also, I'm not sure if this is cultural or a Catholic thing(I'm Filipino), but whenever we've had that prayer for the dead or other type of celebration, we would set aside food for the dead...is this a Catholic tradition or maybe just cultural? My mom said it's been tradition and didn't know how it got started....When we visited my dad's grave she brought a can of Pepsi and beer and left it next to his grave...she said it's just tradition, but I don't know..

Are these common in the Catholic beliefs?
That's more of an ethnic cultural thing. It's quite prevalent in Mexican as well as Mexican-American culture. I haven't noticed it among the Filipino culture here in the U.S., but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Apatriot]

Newbie here...

My mom is Catholic and couldn't answer this so was wondering if someone could shed some light. I'm LDS by the way but grew up Catholic.

1. Prayer for the dead-IS it just for women to participate in or can men too? In my family, it seems only the women did the praying for the ancestors. The men were alwasys outside. Is that the norm?

Women are usually more religious than men.

2. Also, I'm not sure if this is cultural or a Catholic thing(I'm Filipino), but whenever we've had that prayer for the dead or other type of celebration, we would set aside food for the dead...is this a Catholic tradition or maybe just cultural? My mom said it's been tradition and didn't know how it got started....When we visited my dad's grave she brought a can of Pepsi and beer and left it next to his grave...she said it's just tradition, but I don't know..

Are these common in the Catholic beliefs?

That's cultural, not Catholic. I've never done or heard of that.

[justpassingby]

Men should participate. It seems like most Catholic men consider prayer a woman's job, but that is extremely hypocritical and wrong. It's very common, though. The only possible justification for it is that quite a few prayer groups and activities are organized during the work day, when presumably women have free time while the men are at work.

Maybe that's it. None of my brothers would ever do that, just their wives. From my experience, the men would just hang outside and play cards. But now that I think about it do recall my dad sitting in one of the prayer meetings, but not participating.



That's more of an ethnic cultural thing. It's quite prevalent in Mexican as well as Mexican-American culture. I haven't noticed it among the Filipino culture here in the U.S., but it wouldn't surprise me.

Thanks. My mom lives in Hawaii, but I wasn't quite sure if it was culture. My kids did get a kick out of seeing grandma bring soda and beer to the graveyard. It was one of their more memorable moments while visiting grandma.

thanks to all who responded.

[outdamyboat]

Maybe that's it. None of my brothers would ever do that, just their wives. From my experience, the men would just hang outside and play cards. But now that I think about it do recall my dad sitting in one of the prayer meetings, but not participating.

Thanks. My mom lives in Hawaii, but I wasn't quite sure if it was culture. My kids did get a kick out of seeing grandma bring soda and beer to the graveyard. It was one of their more memorable moments while visiting grandma.

thanks to all who responded.

Justpassingby,

ROFL....you have really great questions!!! (Do the Catholics sing in Hawaii?..I should go and find out)

I know, (by my age :rolleyes: ), that every culture adds it's own 'spin' to their religious practices....

I don't know if we have any Italian Pentecostals on Hannity.com RF, but I find their cultural additions to Pentecostalism fascinating.

Anyway, I wish I was one of those Christian Ladies who had more time than her hubby..:think:.....I'm envious......I confess :frown:.

[scipio337]

Men should participate. It seems like most Catholic men consider prayer a woman's job, but that is extremely hypocritical and wrong. It's very common, though. The only possible justification for it is that quite a few prayer groups and activities are organized during the work day, when presumably women have free time while the men are at work.I've never heard this, ever. Men consider prayer a woman's job? Must be more of a regional/cultural thing, too.

That's more of an ethnic cultural thing. It's quite prevalent in Mexican as well as Mexican-American culture. I haven't noticed it among the Filipino culture here in the U.S., but it wouldn't surprise me.Possibly. We Sicilians eat when we do everything :)

[outdamyboat]

I've never heard this, ever. Men consider prayer a woman's job? Must be more of a regional/cultural thing, too.

Possibly. We Sicilians eat when we do everything :)

(Yes, you Sicilian Catholics are an interesting group..yup!...trembling w/ fear I speak :eek:)

Okay...in my house it has fluctuated, when I was a 'trophy wife' hmmm :angel:, I had more time to pray.....but my husband leads the prayer in our house in this life 'season'.

Growing up my Catholic parents always prayed together, and apart I'm sure.....they still attend Mass together daily and pray together in the afternoon.

Some of my best childhood images/memories are my Catholic grandfather and grandmother silently doing their Novena/devotions at the same time in their livingroom.

Yes, men pray :angel:

[MikeJF]

Question, at the Vatican,why is there a giant 650 foot wide astrological sundial in front of St Peter's Basilica?

[buflineks]

Question, at the Vatican,why is there a giant 650 foot wide astrological sundial in front of St Peter's Basilica?

So if the pope forgets his watch while giving a speech, he doesn't have to worry about running out of time.:mrgreen:

[buflineks]

Possibly. We Sicilians eat when we do everything :)

We Irish just drink.:whistle:

[scipio337]

Question, at the Vatican,why is there a giant 650 foot wide astrological sundial in front of St Peter's Basilica?I've never heard much about the sundial, but there are markers around the obelisk:

http://www.stpetersbasilica.org/Exterior/SP-Square-Area.htm

On the obelisk itself:

This obelisk, like two others in Rome, is uninscribed, and no one knows where it originally came from or who created it. It is known that Emperor Augustus ordered it erected in the Julian Forum in Alexandria, where it stayed until A.D. 37. That year, the Emperor Caligula had it removed to the Vatican Circus in Rome. According to the Egyptologist Labib Habachi, "Legend has it that in the Vatican Circus innumerable Christians, including St. Peter, were put to death and that the reason this obelisk was not later overturned as were all the others in Rome was that it was looked upon as the last witness to the martyrdom of St. Peter."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/egypt/raising/rome.html

[scipio337]

We Irish just drink.:whistle:I'm more fond of Bushmills than grappa, myself. :shifty:

[Reeder]

I've never heard much about the sundial, but there are markers around the obelisk:

http://www.stpetersbasilica.org/Exterior/SP-Square-Area.htm

On the obelisk itself:



http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/egypt/raising/rome.html

Interesting

[Dancer]

Question, at the Vatican,why is there a giant 650 foot wide astrological sundial in front of St Peter's Basilica?

*The following is an opinion expressed by Dancer, no facts are used to support this opinion*

Like FDR used the New Deal to get construction work for the unemployed, it is my opinion that the Vatican used to hire the starving artists in order to give them a way to earn money while using their gifts. This also included things such as the sundial in front of St. Peter's Basilica, the construction within the Vatican, etc.

[Reeder]

*The following is an opinion expressed by Dancer, no facts are used to support this opinion*

Like FDR used the New Deal to get construction work for the unemployed, it is my opinion that the Vatican used to hire the starving artists in order to give them a way to earn money while using their gifts. This also included things such as the sundial in front of St. Peter's Basilica, the construction within the Vatican, etc.

Starving artists, eh? I know the feeling. :D

[Dancer]

Starving artists, eh? I know the feeling. :D
It's better to teach a man to fish than to give a man a fish. This way, they were being paid for honest labor. ;)

[Reeder]

It's better to teach a man to fish than to give a man a fish. This way, they were being paid for honest labor. ;)

I love that analogy. One of my favorites.

[Reeder]

How often is Catholic Mass held? Daily.......weekly? Also, what does a typical Mass consist of? Forgive me for my ignorance. :redface:

[Dancer]

How often is Catholic Mass held? Daily.......weekly?As far as I am aware, daily. Weekly attendance is expected, but daily mass is offered.

[outdamyboat]

How often is Catholic Mass held? Daily.......weekly? Also, what does a typical Mass consist of? Forgive me for my ignorance. :redface:

If you post more Green Army Men, I'll answer your question.

[Dancer]

Also, what does a typical Mass consist of? Forgive me for my ignorance. :redface:http://catholic-resources.org/ChurchDocs/Mass.htm

Ignorance is merely an empty space waiting to be filled with knowledge. There is nothing to forgive when you are asking in order to know! ;) This is my understanding:

The Liturgy of the Word is when the Bible readings take place. There are 3. First Lesson, Second Lesson and the Gospel reading (from the first 4 books of the NT). The sermon or homily takes place after the reading of the gospel. Special prayers are after the sermon. Transubstantiation takes place during the blessing of the Eucharist.

The culmination of the mass is when the Eucharist is distributed. The priest then dismisses the congregation with a blessing.

[Reeder]

As far as I am aware, daily. Weekly attendance is expected, but daily mass is offered.

Thank you. Thats kind of what I figured, but wasn't quite sure.

[Reeder]

If you post more Green Army Men, I'll answer your question.


Sorry, all out. ;)

[RayMan]

Sorry, all out. ;)

Back to Anaheim, stat! Take the desert route this time so you can swing by the Mormon Rocks.

[Reeder]

http://catholic-resources.org/ChurchDocs/Mass.htm

Ignorance is merely an empty space waiting to be filled with knowledge. There is nothing to forgive when you are asking in order to know! ;) This is my understanding:

The Liturgy of the Word is when the Bible readings take place. There are 3. First Lesson, Second Lesson and the Gospel reading (from the first 4 books of the NT). The sermon or homily takes place after the reading of the gospel. Special prayers are after the sermon. Transubstantiation takes place during the blessing of the Eucharist.

The culmination of the mass is when the Eucharist is distributed. The priest then dismisses the congregation with a blessing.


When I was serving as a missionary in Spain, I attended a Catholic Mass in a small town off the Mediterranean coast. I think I only caught the tail end however. They had everyone in the congregation greet the person sitting next to them. To be honest with you, it was quite a few years ago and thats all I really remember. Is this a common thing? I actually found it kind of interesting.

[Reeder]

Back to Anaheim, stat! Take the desert route this time so you can swing by the Mormon Rocks.

Don't tempt me, man. I'm already going into withdrawls and probably won't be back until I (hopefully) work for Disney in a year and a half (free Disneyland passes and all).

[RayMan]

Don't tempt me, man. I'm already going into withdrawls and probably won't be back until I (hopefully) work for Disney in a year and a half (free Disneyland passes and all).

You gonna be Dopey or Goofy? Those suits get hot in the summer, dude.:D

[Reeder]

You gonna be Dopey or Goofy? Those suits get hot in the summer, dude.:D

:D

Nah, a Disney Animator (for video games, that is ;) ).

[RayMan]

:D

Nah, a Disney Animator (for video games, that is ;) ).

Ah, I assumed Cast Character since you are such a character.

[Reeder]

Ah, I assumed Cast Character since you are such a character.

If they paid better....perhaps. :) What's your excuse? :mrgreen:

[Dancer]

When I was serving as a missionary in Spain, I attended a Catholic Mass in a small town off the Mediterranean coast. I think I only caught the tail end however. They had everyone in the congregation greet the person sitting next to them. To be honest with you, it was quite a few years ago and thats all I really remember. Is this a common thing? I actually found it kind of interesting.It has been in every Catholic and Lutheran mass I ever attended. It is the kiss of peace.

[outdamyboat]

When I was serving as a missionary in Spain, I attended a Catholic Mass in a small town off the Mediterranean coast. I think I only caught the tail end however. They had everyone in the congregation greet the person sitting next to them. To be honest with you, it was quite a few years ago and thats all I really remember. Is this a common thing? I actually found it kind of interesting.

It's the 'peace' time, they celebrate it at every Sunday Mass.

[RayMan]

If they paid better....perhaps. :) What's your excuse? :mrgreen:

Ten minutes in the August sun wearing a Captain Hook costume and I would be on my way to the Resurrection. My daughter serioiusly desired to be a Disney Princess for a couple of years but apparently she is like one inch too tall.

[outdamyboat]

Ten minutes in the August sun wearing a Captain Hook costume and I would be on my way to the Resurrection. My daughter serioiusly desired to be a Disney Princess for a couple of years but apparently she is like one inch too tall.

Shame...my daughter is too short.

Are there any Catholics answering these questions? Dancer, you Catholic?
I hope so, cause I'm relying on memory and it's tough.

[Dancer]

Shame...my daughter is too short.

Are there any Catholics answering these questions? Dancer, you Catholic?
I hope so, cause I'm relying on memory and it's tough.
I am Old Catholic, but our Bishop uses the same liturgy as Latin Rite, hubby is an Old Catholic Priest and I have attended mass at Catholic church (without receiving) ...in fact, we were at a Catholic Church for Easter this year since hubby and I were up in Pennsylvania visiting his parents. I am just answering the parts that I know or can look up on the Vatican, catholic answers, or catholic-resources sites.

[Reeder]

No, seriously, you guys are doing great. Thanks for the answers!

[outdamyboat]

No, seriously, you guys are doing great. Thanks for the answers!

Reeder, come on; pitiful...absolutely pitiful :doh:

where is buf, haddie, and CD? :question:

[RayMan]

Reeder, come on; pitiful...absolutely pitiful :doh:

where is buf, haddie, and CD? :question:

At the pub. No, I meant at the church. No, I meant at the pub next to the church...oh, forget it. I have no idea where they are.

[Dancer]

At the pub. No, I meant at the church. No, I meant at the pub next to the church...oh, forget it. I have no idea where they are.

:lol:

[outdamyboat]

At the pub. No, I meant at the church. No, I meant at the pub next to the church...oh, forget it. I have no idea where they are.

No way...CD went to Dubin w/ those two? Unbelievable....does his wife know?

[RayMan]

No way...CD went to Dubin w/ those two? Unbelievable....does his wife know?

He probably just told her he was being deployed and let her draw her own conclusions. :mrgreen::mrgreen:

[Hadassah]

At the pub. No, I meant at the church. No, I meant at the pub next to the church...oh, forget it. I have no idea where they are.

Um, noooooooooo. Buf is working cattle (and pretty saddle sore to boot). :D I'm here, cleaning house and taking care of my son. :D And CD.........I have no idea. He may really have gone to Dublin. :think: :shifty:

[Hadassah]

Now, wanna point me to the question? :mrgreen:

[outdamyboat]

Um, noooooooooo. Buf is working cattle (and pretty saddle sore to boot). :D I'm here, cleaning house and taking care of my son. :D And CD.........I have no idea. He may really have gone to Dublin. :think: :shifty:

Well, put down the mop and help...I'm sweating here! geez...

[RayMan]

Buf is working cattle (and pretty saddle sore to boot). :D

"Saddle sore to boot." Hadassah, princess of the bon mot. :D

[outdamyboat]

Now, wanna point me to the question? :mrgreen:

What are the parts of the Mass?
When do they do the 'peace' handshake? Do they do it at every Mass or just on Sunday (like, what if it's 7am and there's like 2 people at the Mass) ?

[Hadassah]

It has been in every Catholic and Lutheran mass I ever attended. It is the kiss of peace.

Better than the kiss of death. :shifty: :))

[Hadassah]

What are the parts of the Mass?
When do they do the 'peace' handshake? Do they do it at every Mass or just on Sunday (like, what if it's 7am and there's like 2 people at the Mass) ?

Well, the first two were answered pretty well already. Y'all did a great job. :mrgreen:


I honestly don't remember if they do the sign of peace at daily Mass. It's been so long since I was able to attend. I'll try to find out ASAP.

[Dancer]

What are the parts of the Mass?
When do they do the 'peace' handshake? Do they do it at every Mass or just on Sunday (like, what if it's 7am and there's like 2 people at the Mass) ?
It has been my experience that the priest comes down from the altar if there is even only one parishoner and gives the kiss of peace...handshake ;)

It's been a good...15 years since I attended a daily mass, so I don't remember the exact structure of the daily mass. I don't remember thinking anything was different though.

[MikeJF]

I found this to my sundial question:


The obelisk outside St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome serves as a gnomon, or pointer, on the most prominent sundial in Christendom. On the summer solstice, when the sun is at its highest point over Rome, the obelisk casts virtually no shadow. But every day before and after, shadows creep along a meridian line embedded in the pavement. Each month, the tip of the shadow rests on one of several tablets etched with signs of the zodiac.

A scientific device planted within Vatican City might seem out of place at first. The Roman Catholic Church, after all, is the institution that savaged Galileo in the 17th century and only apologized for it three centuries later. So what is such a tool—with its reference to the sun and the planets—doing inside the famous piazza?

Even before Galileo raised an eye skyward, the church was a keen patron of the sciences. It needed accurate timekeeping devices to plan its calendar. How could one determine the date of Easter, for example, unless one could pinpoint the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox? To this day the Vatican runs its own observatory on Mount Graham, near Tucson, Arizona. In fact, modern scholars argue that even the early church regarded science as valid, but secondary to religious doctrine. The heavens were assumed to be the realm of the divine, and astronomers were doing God’s will when they read the celestial clockwork.


So it was to track dates. But isn't it interesting that St Peter's Basilica FACES east, and on Easter morning, the sun is directly in line with the obelisk and the Via della Conciliazione! Can that be a coincidence?

[Hadassah]

I found this to my sundial question:



So it was to track dates. But isn't it interesting that St Peter's Basilica FACES east, and on Easter morning, the sun is directly in line with the obelisk and the Via della Conciliazione! Can that be a coincidence?

Interesting how? Coincidence why?


And as for this:
The Roman Catholic Church, after all, is the institution that savaged Galileo in the 17th century and only apologized for it three centuries later.

"Savaged" Galileo? What total equine fertilizer. :rolleyes:

[Dancer]

I found this to my sundial question:



So it was to track dates. But isn't it interesting that St Peter's Basilica FACES east, and on Easter morning, the sun is directly in line with the obelisk and the Via della Conciliazione! Can that be a coincidence?As far as I know, Catholic churches are as often as possible built with the altar facing east...Where possible, the altar faces east, the sunrise, representing the light of Christ.


http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2006/ratzinger_altareast_jan06.asp

Despite all the variations in practice that have taken place far into the second millennium, one thing has remained clear for the whole of Christendom: praying towards the East is a tradition that goes back to the beginning. Moreover, it is a fundamental expression of the Christian synthesis of cosmos and history, of being rooted in the once-for-all events of salvation history while going out to meet the Lord who is to come again. Here both the fidelity to the gift already bestowed and the dynamism of going forward are given equal expression.

[outdamyboat]

It has been my experience that the priest comes down from the altar if there is even only one parishoner and gives the kiss of peace...handshake ;)

It's been a good...15 years since I attended a daily mass, so I don't remember the exact structure of the daily mass. I don't remember thinking anything was different though.


Hey, let's ask my Mother! My Dad and she go every day to Mass (but Sunday...twice on Saturday. Why don't they go to Mass on Sunday? No one ever answered that question).

[outdamyboat]

Okay...I have her on the phone now...yup, they do the sign of peace every day at daily Mass.

It's after the consecration and before the distribution of the Eucharist.

Thanks, Mom.

[Dancer]

Hey, let's ask my Mother! My Dad and she go every day to Mass (but Sunday...twice on Saturday. Why don't they go to Mass on Sunday? No one ever answered that question).
lol, I think no one answered it because that seems to be particular to your family... ;) :D

[outdamyboat]

lol, I think no one answered it because that seems to be particular to your family... ;) :D

Yeah, we've always been a bit 'particular'....(peculiar..actually :think:)

[Dancer]

Yeah, we've always been a bit 'particular'....(peculiar..actually :think:)
I will say that my in laws and my best friend both attended mass on Saturday night as opposed to Sunday morning. The evening mass on Saturday is the same as Sunday morning mass (same readings), so perhaps that is the answer?

[crystalclear]

Okay...I have her on the phone now...yup, they do the sign of peace every day at daily Mass.

It's after the consecration and before the distribution of the Eucharist.

Thanks, Mom.
Your Mother is correct...:angel:

[goodlife]

yep....growing up I went to mass every saturday evening..my parents still do.

The peace thing goes something like this..
"May the peace of the Lord be with you always" and the congregation replies "And also with you"
And then the Priest says something like..."Let us offer each other the sign of the peace" at which time you either shake hands with those around you and say "Peace be with you" or just "peace"....or kiss your own family members. That's a matter of personal preference.

[outdamyboat]

yep....growing up I went to mass every saturday evening..my parents still do.

The peace thing goes something like this..
"May the peace of the Lord be with you always" and the congregation replies "And also with you"
And then the Priest says something like..."Let us offer each other the sign of the peace" at which time you either shake hands with those around you and say "Peace be with you" or just "peace"....or kiss your own family members. That's a matter of personal preference.

Ya know, growing up we went on Sunday morning... I think Saturday evening 'grew' on them after the kids left home.

Okay, next question...

In what year did the Catholic church recognize celebrating Mass on Saturday evening = Sunday?

[3inOne]

How often is Catholic Mass held? Daily.......weekly? Also, what does a typical Mass consist of? Forgive me for my ignorance. :redface:

Hi Reeder,

Masses are twice daily, Monday through Saturday, depending on the parish.

Saturday's late Mass, usually at 5 o'clock, counts for one having fulfilled Sunday's obligation for attending Mass.

Here is a link what a typical Mass consists of:
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/catholic_mass_full_text.htm

Hope this helps to answer what you wanted to know.

[outdamyboat]

Hi Reeder,

Masses are twice daily, Monday through Saturday, depending on the parish.

Saturday's late Mass, usually at 5 o'clock, counts for one having fulfilled Sunday's obligation for attending Mass.

Here is a link what a typical Mass consists of:
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/catholic_mass_full_text.htm

Hope this helps to answer what you wanted to know.

Nice job. How's your vision?

[3inOne]

Nice job. How's your vision?

Thank you for asking. Still clear as a bell. Blessed be God!

[outdamyboat]

Thank you for asking. Still clear as a bell. Blessed be God!


Praise God....He is 'The Balm" :angel:

[justamere10]

Once when I was a young man serving in the airforce I was sent on a ten day course far from my home base. After being there a day or two I discovered on an early morning walk that there was a tiny Catholic chapel on the base, and inside was a "brother" (not quite a priest as I understand) who was qualified to give me (a Catholic at the time) communion. We met, if I remember correctly, every early morning of my stay after that, and with just the two of us in that tiny chapel the brother gave me the sacrament that I think had previously been blessed by a full priest.

From the chapel I'd walk along the banks of a nearby lake each morning, and in other times I'd write poetry, memorize scriptures, read Tolstoy's "War and Peace", and managed to do very well on my course. It was a special spiritual time for me, a time I'll never forget.

Decades later, as a Latter-day Saint doing genealogical research, I discovered that my great great or whatever grandfather and his family had lived right there on that lake! If it wasn't for them, I would not be here.

I will always be grateful for having been born of goodly parents, and raised a Roman Catholic.

.

[3inOne]

Hi Reeder,

Masses are twice daily, Monday through Saturday, depending on the parish.

Saturday's late Mass, usually at 5 o'clock, counts for one having fulfilled Sunday's obligation for attending Mass.

Here is a link what a typical Mass consists of:
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/catholic_mass_full_text.htm

Hope this helps to answer what you wanted to know.

Forgot to say: On Sunday, we have four Holy Masses - three in the morning, one in the evening.

[buflineks]

I found this to my sundial question:
So it was to track dates. But isn't it interesting that St Peter's Basilica FACES east, and on Easter morning, the sun is directly in line with the obelisk and the Via della Conciliazione! Can that be a coincidence?

You quoted something but didn't give a citation.

Just exactly where did this information come from?

Interesting thing about Gallileo, he was a clerk, and therefore subject to canon law. He had claimed benefit of the clergy on a couple of occasions.
The Church didn't get upset with him and his research until he started teaching his "Theory" (and yes, at that time it was only a theory, not proven fact) as truth to supplant Religious beliefs.

BTW, did you know that the biggest critics of Gallileo at the time was not the Church but rather the Protestants? Martin Luther dismissed Heliocentric theory as heretical and proof that the Church was supporting "Non-Biblical" teachings. Sola Scriptura before science.

The reason for Gallileo's problems is that he had been informed that when he taught, he was to teach his "discovery" as "Theory" until further research had been done to establish it as fact. Gallileo refused and demanded that the Church bow to him and his theories. It then became a matter of Ecclesiastical Law due to the fact that Gallileo was a clerk with the Church observatory and a teacher at a Church school. He had claimed the benefit of clergy therefore he was subject to Ecclesiastical law.

This is why I tire of the whole "Gallileo" schtick. It's boring and most people don't understand the whole story. They only pick out certian things and try to make the Church the "Bad Guy". This is what happens when people do "Google Research" on a subject. They don't understand the culture of the time, the difference in Secular law and Ecclesiastical law. Which of those two are in play. What the differences between the two are. Who is subject to which one.

[Hadassah]

You quoted something but didn't give a citation.

Just exactly where did this information come from?

Interesting thing about Gallileo, he was a clerk, and therefore subject to canon law. He had claimed benefit of the clergy on a couple of occasions.
The Church didn't get upset with him and his research until he started teaching his "Theory" (and yes, at that time it was only a theory, not proven fact) as truth to supplant Religious beliefs.

BTW, did you know that the biggest critics of Gallileo at the time was not the Church but rather the Protestants? Martin Luther dismissed him as a heretic and proof that the Church was supporting "Non-Biblical" teachings. Sola Scriptura before science.

The reason for Gallileo's problems is that he had been informed that when he taught, he was to teach his "discovery" as "Theory" until further research had been done to establish it as fact. Gallileo refused and demanded that the Church bow to him and his theories. It then became a matter of Ecclesiastical Law due to the fact that Gallileo was a clerk with the Church observatory and a teacher at a Church school. He had claimed the benefit of clergy therefore he was subject to Ecclesiastical law.

This is why I tire of the whole "Gallileo" schtick. It's boring and most people don't understand the whole story. They only pick out certian things and try to make the Church the "Bad Guy". This is what happens when people do "Google Research" on a subject. They don't understand the culture of the time, the difference in Secular law and Ecclesiastical law. Which of those two are in play. What the differences between the two are. Who is subject to which one.


Buf, you da man!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

[CatholicDefender]

Newbie here...

My mom is Catholic and couldn't answer this so was wondering if someone could shed some light. I'm LDS by the way but grew up Catholic.

1. Prayer for the dead-IS it just for women to participate in or can men too? In my family, it seems only the women did the praying for the ancestors. The men were alwasys outside. Is that the norm?

2. Also, I'm not sure if this is cultural or a Catholic thing(I'm Filipino), but whenever we've had that prayer for the dead or other type of celebration, we would set aside food for the dead...is this a Catholic tradition or maybe just cultural? My mom said it's been tradition and didn't know how it got started....When we visited my dad's grave she brought a can of Pepsi and beer and left it next to his grave...she said it's just tradition, but I don't know..

Are these common in the Catholic beliefs?

Praying for the dead is for everybody. St. Paul encouraged prayer for Onesiphorus and his family after he died.

[Apatriot]

When I was serving as a missionary in Spain, I attended a Catholic Mass in a small town off the Mediterranean coast. I think I only caught the tail end however. They had everyone in the congregation greet the person sitting next to them. To be honest with you, it was quite a few years ago and thats all I really remember. Is this a common thing? I actually found it kind of interesting.

That's the sign of peace, done just before communion.

[Apatriot]

Hey, let's ask my Mother! My Dad and she go every day to Mass (but Sunday...twice on Saturday. Why don't they go to Mass on Sunday? No one ever answered that question).

The second Mass they attend on Saturday is not a daily mass, but is the vigil for the Sunday Mass. I guess they don't like going to Mass on Sunday.

[Jíbaro]

Praying for the dead is for everybody. St. Paul encouraged prayer for Onesiphorus and his family after he died.
The Bible doesn't say that.

Paul's Onesiphorus blessing says:
2 Timothy 1:16

16 May the Lord show mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, because he often refreshed me and was not ashamed of my chains.
Onesiphorus was dead and enjoying Heaven, but his survivors weren't.

Again, in the same Letter, the Apostle Paul mentions the departed Onesiphorus in the same way:
2 Timothy 4:19

19 Greet Priscilla and Aquila and the household of Onesiphorus.
Paul did not tell Timothy to pray for Onesiphorus, but to greet his family.

---------------------------

Outside of that, I have a question:
If Peter was the first Pope, and we know that Scripture says that Peter was happily married (1 Corinthians 9:5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=9&verse=5&version=51&context=verse)), and in view that Catholic Popes and Clergy are bound by the present day CELIBACY rule, would Peter be less holy and less beatified than CELIBATE Popes and Clergy? (Kind of what is good for the goose, is good for the gander.)

[loy]

If Peter was the first Pope, and we know that Scripture says that Peter was happily married (1 Corinthians 9:5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=9&verse=5&version=51&context=verse)), and in view that Catholic Popes and Clergy are bound by the present day CELIBACY rule, would Peter be less holy and less beatified than CELIBATE Popes and Clergy? (Kind of what is good for the goose, is good for the gander.)



Catholic tradition honors St. Peter tremendously, probably more than any other pope, but certainly he is not considered any less holy than celibate Popes and Clergy as a result of his marriage. Technically, the most honored as well as most holy saint of all, St. Mary the mother of Jesus, was married, albeit Catholics hold that she remained a virgin within the bonds of matrimony.

There are many saints who were married during their life. The Church does not place them on a lower tier than completely celibate saints.

BTW and FWIW, scripture states that Jesus healed St. Peter's mother-in-law, but doesn't state whether St. Peter's wife was living at the time that Jesus chose him to be an apostle.

[RayMan]

<snip> BTW and FWIW, scripture states that Jesus healed St. Peter's mother-in-law, but doesn't state whether St. Peter's wife was living at the time that Jesus chose him to be an apostle.

Since you seem to infer that Peter's wife might have been dead at the time Jesus chose him, do you think she was resurrected to be mentioned in 1 Cor 9 or would that have been a second wife?

1Co 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

[loy]

Since you seem to infer that Peter's wife might have been dead at the time Jesus chose him, do you think she was resurrected to be mentioned in 1 Cor 9 or would that have been a second wife?

1Co 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
"Wife" is certainly an acceptable translation of gunaika (I'm not at my own computer & I don't know how to punch in greek on this one). I prefer "woman" because IMHO it fits better into the context of the argument that he was trying to make. St. Paul did not have the power to bring a wife because he was unmarried. But he could have had a Christian sister or woman to help him, as did the other apostles, but he chose not to.

I'm just saying we don't know for certain from scripture whether he was married at the time of his ministry or not.

[RayMan]

"Wife" is certainly an acceptable translation of gunaika (I'm not at my own computer & I don't know how to punch in greek on this one). I prefer "woman" because IMHO it fits better into the context of the argument that he was trying to make. St. Paul did not have the power to bring a wife because he was unmarried. But he could have had a Christian sister or woman to help him, as did the other apostles, but he chose not to.

I'm just saying we don't know for certain from scripture whether he was married at the time of his ministry or not.

Interesting thought. Would I be right to assume you are Catholic?