What is your religious affiliation? [Archive]

Harmonious

March 5th, 2008, 1:45 am

Religiously or Culturally? Or Both?

A Jew who converts to Christianity would still genetically be considered Jewish, no? You would therefore have a "Jewish Christian."
No. They would just be Christians.

Honestly, they never truly give up their Jewish obligations, as God still considers them Jewish, but Jews are not allowed to intermarry with Jews who adopt some other religion (it isn't just Christianity, but you rarely see people call themselves "Jewish Muslims" or "Jewish Hindus," but there are enough people who call themselves "Jewish Christians" so it warrants noting). If a Jew who adopts another religion comes to a synagogue, Jews are not allowed to count him for a quorum, and he is not allowed to be called to the Torah.

Jews are not allowed to trust such a person's Kashrut, and for all intents and purposes, they are supposed to treat such a person as a non-Jew. Politely, friendly, but nothing more than that. (Unless they are going to attempt to bring him back to Judaism.)

Lord Dreadmore

March 5th, 2008, 4:32 am

You can't be both at the same timean idea born in bigotry. A Jew does not stop being a Jew becasue they accept Yashuah, becasue they are gay, or atheist, or secular. thank God not all Jews are orthodox or Israel would be in the clutches of Ahmadinejad right now.

http://www.nkusa.org/activities/statements/2005Oct28Iran.cfm

types of Jews

Atheist Jews
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mjewish.html

Christian Jews
http://escholarship.bc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1062&context=scjr

http://www.moriel.org/

Homosexual Jews
http://www.religionfacts.com/homosexuality/judaism.htm

Conservative/Masorti Jews
http://www.masorti.org/

Reform Jews
http://rj.org/

Reconstructionist Jews
http://www.jrf.org/

Secular Humanistic Jews
http://www.ifshj.org/

more types of Jews
http://www.jewfaq.org/movement.htm

Harmonious

March 5th, 2008, 5:16 am

an idea born in bigotry. A Jew does not stop being a Jew becasue they accept Yashuah, becasue they are gay, or atheist, or secular. thank God not all Jews are orthodox or Israel would be in the clutches of Ahmadinejad right now.:rolleyes:

Geez, I'll try to remember that one.

I would say you are right, that a Jew doesn't stop being a Jew because they are gay, or an atheist, or secular. But when a Jew willingly gives up the fundamental covenant between God and the Jews by accepting another "deity" or even a "different covenant", they cease being Jewish. It is a voluntary thing.

But about Jews not being Orthodox...

That was just nasty. As a matter of fact, it is something that we Orthodox Jews PRAY for, work on ourselves to accomplish, and hope to convince other Jews to join us.

I wonder what in creation would make you say that if all Jews were Orthodox that Israel would be "in the clutches of Ahmadinejad". I would say that if all Jews were Orthodox, no one would have a chance to harm the Jews; God wouldn't let anything happen.

(However, that also presupposes that all the Orthodox Jews would get along...)

buflineks

March 5th, 2008, 2:35 pm

:rolleyes:

Geez, I'll try to remember that one.

I would say you are right, that a Jew doesn't stop being a Jew because they are gay, or an atheist, or secular. But when a Jew willingly gives up the fundamental covenant between God and the Jews by accepting another "deity" or even a "different covenant", they cease being Jewish. It is a voluntary thing.

But about Jews not being Orthodox...

That was just nasty. As a matter of fact, it is something that we Orthodox Jews PRAY for, work on ourselves to accomplish, and hope to convince other Jews to join us.

I wonder what in creation would make you say that if all Jews were Orthodox that Israel would be "in the clutches of Ahmadinejad". I would say that if all Jews were Orthodox, no one would have a chance to harm the Jews; God wouldn't let anything happen.

(However, that also presupposes that all the Orthodox Jews would get along...)

It kinda gets a guy to thinking.

Would all of those jews around Jericho have been what we consider today "Orthodox"?

:whistle:

PaleoPaul

March 5th, 2008, 3:42 pm

Christian- Reformed (Calvinist)

Lord Dreadmore

March 5th, 2008, 3:48 pm

:rolleyes:

Geez, I'll try to remember that one.

I would say you are right, that a Jew doesn't stop being a Jew because they are gay, or an atheist, or secular. But when a Jew willingly gives up the fundamental covenant between God and the Jews by accepting another "deity" or even a "different covenant", they cease being Jewish. It is a voluntary thing.

what you mean, and what you should be saying, is that the orthodox view envisions itself so superior that it feels it gets to determine who is Jewish and who is not.

But about Jews not being Orthodox...

That was just nasty. As a matter of fact, it is something that we Orthodox Jews PRAY for, work on ourselves to accomplish, and hope to convince other Jews to join us.

I wonder what in creation would make you say that if all Jews were Orthodox that Israel would be "in the clutches of Ahmadinejad". I would say that if all Jews were Orthodox, no one would have a chance to harm the Jews; God wouldn't let anything happen.

(However, that also presupposes that all the Orthodox Jews would get along...)begging the Iranian for the right to be a slave is disgusting at the very least. Stop trying to tell other Jews they are not Jews becasue they don't fit into your manageable little box.

Reeder

March 5th, 2008, 4:56 pm

what you mean, and what you should be saying, is that the orthodox view envisions itself so superior that it feels it gets to determine who is Jewish and who is not.

Why do you pretend to "know" what she "really" means and what she should "really" be saying? I'm sure she writes what she means.

begging the Iranian for the right to be a slave is disgusting at the very least. Stop trying to tell other Jews they are not Jews becasue they don't fit into your manageable little box.

http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/00020160.gif

Mikko

March 5th, 2008, 5:31 pm

what you mean, and what you should be saying, is that the orthodox view envisions itself so superior that it feels it gets to determine who is Jewish and who is not. Stop trying to tell other Jews they are not Jews becasue they don't fit into your manageable little box.

So you get to tell Jews how to relate to each other? Stop telling Jews they can't say who is Jewish and who isn't just because they refuse to call non-Jews Jews!

http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/000201C3.gif

Mikko

Lord Dreadmore

March 5th, 2008, 5:44 pm

I'm a Jewish-Christian (Messianic)don't let anyone try and take that from you.

terri910

March 5th, 2008, 5:45 pm

Didn't we just do this "What is your religious affiliation?" thing without the poll?
I think so.....that's why I'm so late to this party. I thought this WAS the other thread.

Poisonshady313

March 5th, 2008, 5:55 pm

what you mean, and what you should be saying, is that the orthodox view envisions itself so superior that it feels it gets to determine who is Jewish and who is not.

begging the Iranian for the right to be a slave is disgusting at the very least. Stop trying to tell other Jews they are not Jews becasue they don't fit into your manageable little box.

I'm not making any assertions or accusations... but I do wonder if you have a tendency to do the same thing with Christians.

Poisonshady313

March 5th, 2008, 6:11 pm

an idea born in bigotry. A Jew does not stop being a Jew becasue they accept Yashuah, becasue they are gay, or atheist, or secular. thank God

You're right. A Jew does not stop being a Jew. Ever. However, because they accept "Yashuah", they do stop being JewISH.

-ish, meaning "resembling" or "having the characteristics of".

By birth to a Jewish mother, nobody can take away the fact that a Jew is a Jew. However, when he or she rejects the basic tenets of Judaism (incorporeal, non-trinitarian God whose Law is eternal), it is most inaccurate to refer to such a person as Jewish.

Thus, a Jewish Christian isn't Jewish at all... even if such a person is a Jew.

Harmonious

March 5th, 2008, 7:02 pm

It kinda gets a guy to thinking.

Would all of those jews around Jericho have been what we consider today "Orthodox"?

:whistle:

When? In Joshua's time? Probably.

Harmonious

March 5th, 2008, 7:15 pm

what you mean, and what you should be saying, is that the orthodox view envisions itself so superior that it feels it gets to determine who is Jewish and who is not.I don't know what exactly is bothering you, but I'll answer you directly.

Of all of those Jews that you listed out there, the only Jews who actively live life the way God commanded all those years ago are the ones who call themselves Orthodox. All those other subgroups that you mentioned have changed the behavior or belief system (except for gays, and they deserve a different post) such that they no longer ARE Jewish. As Poisonshady explained, and I actually said, they are Jews from the time that they are born until the time that they die. God said so.

But Jews (if it makes you happy for me to say it, ORTHODOX Jews) are not allowed to comingle with Jews who have given up their Judaism, or "joined" their Judaism to some other religion.

Besides, all of the other types of Jews that you mentioned are beloved Jews, and will always be, even though they sin by not following the Torah all the way.

It is those Jews who decide to take on Christianity who cease from being Jewish. They deny the covenant between God and the Jews, and play with "another" that someone else came up with.

begging the Iranian for the right to be a slave is disgusting at the very least.Dear God! I can't believe you just did that!

First of all, Neturei Karta are NOT representative of all Orthodox Jews. They never have been, nor will they ever be. I guess you have no problem ignoring the whole Hesder program, whereby Orthodox Jews sign up to be in Yeshiva part time and be full-time soldiers the other part of the time.

And even the Orthodox Jews who are NOT part of Hesder still are soldiers and fight to protect Israel. There are bunches who don't, like many of the Chareidi Jews, the Satmar Chassidim in particular, but that just ignores the thousands of Orthodox Jews who work hard to keep Israel safe. They work side by side with their less religious brethren.

But this never comes into play, in your mind.

You disgust me. You have decided to "put all Orthodox Jews in your little, more manageable box." You are an ignoramous and a hypocrite.

Stop trying to tell other Jews they are not Jews becasue they don't fit into your manageable little box.I haven't said anything that the Torah didn't say first.

At least, I LEARNED the Torah laws, and what it has to say about people defecting from following the Torah, and the various and sundry ways Jews are encouraged to be brought back to the Torah.

But making a break by belonging to a different religion changes the Jew's relationship with God. I'm not making this up. It is the Torah.

I'm sorry that Torah law doesn't match your idea of what SHOULD be. I'm only telling you what is.

Harmonious

March 5th, 2008, 7:21 pm

don't let anyone try and take that from you.
:rolleyes:

Fire Watch

March 5th, 2008, 7:28 pm

Anymore disrespect from Lord Dreadmore and he'll lose his access to this forum.

Harmonious

March 5th, 2008, 9:06 pm

Just because I said they deserve their own post, I'm giving it right here.

No one said that gay Jews are not Jews. I know a few of them, and they are interesting characters. Even though they are gay, they are making the effort to lead Orthodox Torah lives. (This isn't true for all of the gay Jews I know.)

Jews who are gay and choose to indulge in homosexual behavior are still Jews. They sin by indulging in homosexual behavior, and it is a severe thing, but that is their own personal business, between themselves and God.

I know two Orthodox gentlemen who are indeed homosexual, but they are going to live as Orthodox Jews. Separately, they both came to the conclusion that when life is more settled, they intend to get married (no, not to each other). Apparently, there is an organization in New York City that was organized for this purpose. It introduces Jewish homosexual men to Jewish homosexual women so that they could marry, as Jews are commanded in the Torah. They may not be sexually attracted to each other, but both the husband and wife will know and understand this. And they will live life as Orthodox Jews, despite what they may want biologically.

I think it is a beautiful thing.

Harmonious

March 5th, 2008, 9:13 pm

Anymore disrespect from Lord Dreadmore and he'll lose his access to this forum.

Thank you.

Abe

March 6th, 2008, 1:37 am

thank God not all Jews are orthodox or Israel would be in the clutches of Ahmadinejad right now.
I'm eager to hear your rationale for this statement.

Harmonious

March 6th, 2008, 1:39 am

I'm eager to hear your rationale for this statement.

Without thinking, the answer is painfully simple. He simply decided that all Orthodox Jews are the Neturei Karta.

Abe

March 6th, 2008, 1:51 am

what you mean, and what you should be saying, is that the orthodox view envisions itself so superior that it feels it gets to determine who is Jewish and who is not. Harmonious is an Orthodox Jew. As such she has a right to state what the Orthodox movement considers a Jew to be. I know Baptists who, when saying someone is a Christian, mean that he is "born again". As Baptists, they have a right to state whom Baptists consider to be a Christian and whom they don't.

begging the Iranian for the right to be a slave is disgusting at the very least. Stop trying to tell other Jews they are not Jews becasue they don't fit into your manageable little box Where did you get the "begging for the right to be a slave" bit? Who is begging? Also, she is determining this as an Orthodox Jew. I disagree with her, but I'd be the first to admit that she has a right to her opinion, especially as she is going by Halakha.

Abe

March 6th, 2008, 2:05 am

Without thinking, the answer is painfully simple. He simply decided that all Orthodox Jews are the Neturei Karta.

If he's refering to the Neturei Karta mission to the Holocaust Denial shindig in Iran, then he truly has no idea what is going on.

I served with Hesdernickim in the army. They are an awsome group of people. They stand their ground under heavy bombardment and attack the objective without worrying about their personal safety, if that interferes with the mission. They see the mission as a holy Mitzva that must be fulfilled.

When my tank was hit, a Hesdernick brought his tank, under heavy artillery fire, into the swamp and rescued my entire crew. I couldn't believe my eyes as I watched him sail in, while the company CO yelled at everyone to give him covering fire.

I have a lot of respect for them. Slaves? Not in their wildest dreams. :clap: :clap:

Quint

March 6th, 2008, 9:21 am

<---- Israeli Jew by birth..
pretty much none beliver, if i had to be honest

Reeder

March 6th, 2008, 12:08 pm

If he's refering to the Neturei Karta mission to the Holocaust Denial shindig in Iran, then he truly has no idea what is going on.

I served with Hesdernickim in the army. They are an awsome group of people. They stand their ground under heavy bombardment and attack the objective without worrying about their personal safety, if that interferes with the mission. They see the mission as a holy Mitzva that must be fulfilled.

When my tank was hit, a Hesdernick brought his tank, under heavy artillery fire, into the swamp and rescued my entire crew. I couldn't believe my eyes as I watched him sail in, while the company CO yelled at everyone to give him covering fire.

I have a lot of respect for them. Slaves? Not in their wildest dreams. :clap: :clap:

Now THAT is an incredible story. You should really think about making a movie out of it. I know I'd pay to see it. :D

Constantine the Great

March 6th, 2008, 12:29 pm

So you get to tell Jews how to relate to each other? Stop telling Jews they can't say who is Jewish and who isn't just because they refuse to call non-Jews Jews!

http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/000201C3.gif

Mikko

Ahh the hypocrite speaks again. So tell me, why is it ok in your opinion for Jews to declare their own as Jewish or not, yet you have such a problem with Christians declaring who's a Christian or not?

You should have stayed in the hole you had crawled into.

CALady

March 6th, 2008, 12:39 pm

Is this the deja vu thread? :)

republicanprincess

March 6th, 2008, 12:44 pm

<---- Israeli Jew by birth..
pretty much none beliver, if i had to be honest

A non-believing Iraeli Jew. I'm so sorry to hear that. You are God's chosen people.

Southern Baptist here. I'm one of those evil evangelicals. :cool:

RayMan

March 6th, 2008, 12:45 pm

Is this the deja vu thread? :)

Yes it is...

Yes it is...

Yes it is...

CALady

March 6th, 2008, 12:50 pm

Yes it is...

Yes it is...

Yes it is...

Far out... :cool:

Harmonious

March 6th, 2008, 12:51 pm

Yes it is...

Yes it is...

Yes it is...

:))

Lord Dreadmore

March 7th, 2008, 4:24 pm

Harmonious is an Orthodox Jew. As such she has a right to state what the Orthodox movement considers a Jew to be.

I never said she did not have a right to speak, and regardless of what she says no religion as the right to determine for someone else what their race is or is not.

I know Baptists who, when saying someone is a Christian, mean that he is "born again". As Baptists, they have a right to state whom Baptists consider to be a Christian and whom they don't.Baptist is not a race

Where did you get the "begging for the right to be a slave" bit? Who is begging?those orthodox who want to destroy the state of Israel and live under the rule of foreign governments.

Also, she is determining this as an Orthodox Jew. I disagree with her, but I'd be the first to admit that she has a right to her opinion, especially as she is going by Halakha.I never said she did not have a right to her opinion...since you say you disagree maybe you could point out your disagreement?

Lord Dreadmore

March 7th, 2008, 4:24 pm

I'm not making any assertions or accusations... but I do wonder if you have a tendency to do the same thing with Christians.Christian is not a race

Lord Dreadmore

March 7th, 2008, 4:31 pm

You're right. A Jew does not stop being a Jew. Ever. However, because they accept "Yashuah", they do stop being JewISH.
yes, I am right, and no they do not..however I will say that they do not practice Judaism in any form which neither for the most part do the gay jews, the Humanist Jews or the Atheist Jews etc..

-ish, meaning "resembling" or "having the characteristics of".interesting dance youre doing there, nice try, though ISH is just the word for man or people..JewISH = a race of people

By birth to a Jewish mother, nobody can take away the fact that a Jew is a Jew. However, when he or she rejects the basic tenets of Judaism (incorporeal, non-trinitarian God whose Law is eternal), it is most inaccurate to refer to such a person as Jewish. right, no one can take their race and as far as them not practicing Judaism I agree with that, they do not.

Thus, a Jewish Christian isn't Jewish at all... even if such a person is a Jew.tail chasing. they are Jewish they do not practice Judaism which as I have already say neither do the gay Jews, the humanist Jews, the Atheist Jews etc..

Lord Dreadmore

March 7th, 2008, 4:47 pm

Of all of those Jews that you listed out there, the only Jews who actively live life the way God commanded all those years ago are the ones who call themselves Orthodox.I understand your desire to make that claim.

All those other subgroups that you mentioned have changed the behavior or belief system (except for gays, and they deserve a different post)hmmm..very interesting. I saw the orthodox out protesting the gay parade, very interesting.

such that they no longer ARE Jewish.yes they are

"It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox."

http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm#Who

As Poisonshady explained, and I actually said, they are Jews from the time that they are born until the time that they die. God said so.you said he was not a Jew after he said he was

But Jews (if it makes you happy for me to say it, ORTHODOX Jews) are not allowed to comingle with Jews who have given up their Judaism, or "joined" their Judaism to some other religion.right, Judaism..that is a religious expression

Besides, all of the other types of Jews that you mentioned are beloved Jews, and will always be, even though they sin by not following the Torah all the way.yes, they are Jews

It is those Jews who decide to take on Christianity who cease from being Jewish.no, they cease from practicing Judaism

They deny the covenant between God and the Jews, and play with "another" that someone else came up with.interesting way of putting that. Fact ,they have not denied the covenant, they have embrace it

First of all, Neturei Karta are NOT representative of all Orthodox Jews.never said they were

They never have been, nor will they ever be. I never made the claim

I guess you have no problem ignoring the whole Hesder program, whereby Orthodox Jews sign up to be in Yeshiva part time and be full-time soldiers the other part of the time. im not interested in programs.

And even the Orthodox Jews who are NOT part of Hesder still are soldiers and fight to protect Israel. There are bunches who don't, like many of the Chareidi Jews, the Satmar Chassidim in particular, but that just ignores the thousands of Orthodox Jews who work hard to keep Israel safe. They work side by side with their less religious brethren. so? good for them, whats the point?

But this never comes into play, in your mind. its not part of the discussion, you're tying to make it part of it, I have no interest.

You disgust me.wow, amazing, talk about disrespect.

You have decided to "put all Orthodox Jews in your little, more manageable box." I pointed out a group, you did the rest.

You are an ignoramous and a hypocrite. wow, amazing..and supposedly I'm the disrespectful one...

I haven't said anything that the Torah didn't say first.lol

At least, I LEARNED the Torah laws, and what it has to say about people defecting from following the Torah, and the various and sundry ways Jews are encouraged to be brought back to the Torah.sacrifice, temple? no? hmm...

But making a break by belonging to a different religion changes the Jew's relationship with God. I'm not making this up. It is the Torah.Yahshuah is the word made flesh.

I'm sorry that Torah law doesn't match your idea of what SHOULD be. I'm only telling you what is.I'm sorry that Torah law doesn't match your idea of what SHOULD be. I'm only telling you what is.

Voxpopuli

March 7th, 2008, 5:10 pm

interesting dance youre doing there, nice try, though ISH is just the word for man or people..JewISH = a race of people

I didn't think there was a Jewish race.

LJB1031

March 7th, 2008, 6:26 pm

don't let anyone try and take that from you.
That would be impossible.

LJB1031

March 7th, 2008, 6:30 pm

You can't be both at the same time, LJB.
OK, I'm a Christian-Jew. I am in good company. The Apostle Paul, Peter, Matthew, Luke, etc. were all Christian-Jews.

Poisonshady313

March 8th, 2008, 8:57 pm

interesting dance youre doing there, nice try, though ISH is just the word for man or people.. in what language? Look it up in the dictionary. I've already provided you with the dictionary definition of the suffix -ish... having the characteristics of. To be a Jew and not be Jewish is to be a person who behaves completely unlike that which he or she is... i.e. behaving out of character.

Being born to a Jewish mother makes one, by birth, a Jew. However, when a Jew ceases to act in the manner that Jews act, you can rightfully say they're not being Jew-ISH. There might be a Christian Jew, but there's no such thing as a Jewish Christian.

right, no one can take their race and as far as them not practicing Judaism I agree with that, they do not. Judaism is not a race. We're a nation living outside our designated homeland. If you choose to apply for citizenship elsewhere, that's your choice. However, if you want to come back, you have to formally renounce your foreign citizenship. A Jew, by taking on the Christian religion, denies several of the principles that make Jews Jewish.

tail chasing.

Not at all. You're just stubborn.

Understand this: Judaism is not a race. It's both a national heritage and a religion (by virtue of the fact that you can indeed convert to it)

I've thoroughly explained the difference between being a Jew and being Jewish... and everyone here seems to understand it except you.

Poisonshady313

March 8th, 2008, 9:06 pm

in what language?

Ok... in Hebrew, the word pronounced eesh, which might be written as "ish" does mean man. However, the word "Jewish" is not a Hebrew word. The suffix "ish" I think has old english roots.

Jew-ish. That is, like or having the characteristics of a Jew.

resembling a Jew.

Even if you were born a Jew, if you take on Christianity, or Hindusim, or Islam, or Scientology.... you sure as heck aren't acting like a Jew. You aren't resembling a Jew. You don't have the characteristics of a Jew. You do have the physical heritage that says you are from the tribe of Judah (think Jew-duh) (or at least the religion that's waiting for the messiah from the tribe of Judah)....

Such a person is a Jew... however, such a person is not Jewish.

Lord Dreadmore

March 8th, 2008, 9:37 pm

To be a Jew and not be Jewish is to be a person who behaves completely unlike that which he or she is... i.e. behaving out of character.
double speak

Being born to a Jewish mother makes one, by birth, a Jew. However, when a Jew ceases to act in the manner that Jews act, you can rightfully say they're not being Jew-ISH. There might be a Christian Jew, but there's no such thing as a Jewish Christian.double speak, tail chasing

Judaism is not a race.never said it was.

We're a nation living outside our designated homeland. If you choose to apply for citizenship elsewhere, that's your choice. However, if you want to come back, you have to formally renounce your foreign citizenship. citizenship is irrelevant to race

A Jew, by taking on the Christian religion, denies several of the principles that make Jews Jewish.they no longer (if they ever did in the first place) practice Judaism, they do not stop being Jewish

Understand this: Judaism is not a race.never said it was.

It's both a national heritage and a religion (by virtue of the fact that you can indeed convert to it)yep

I've thoroughly explained the difference between being a Jew and being Jewish... and everyone here seems to understand it except you.double speak

what you're saying is "yes they are Jew, but they don't act like a Jew so they're not a Jew"

Lord Dreadmore

March 8th, 2008, 9:42 pm

Even if you were born a Jew, if you take on Christianity, or Hindusim, or Islam, or Scientology.... you sure as heck aren't acting like a Jew. so all Jews act the same huh? they all walk the same, look the same, talk the same, think the same, sing the same, dance the same, eat the same, drink the same etc..on and on? seriously this kind of thinking just makes me shake my head.

You aren't resembling a Jew. You don't have the characteristics of a Jew. You do have the physical heritage that says you are from the tribe of Judah (think Jew-duh) (or at least the religion that's waiting for the messiah from the tribe of Judah)....

Such a person is a Jew... however, such a person is not Jewish."Jewish" is a race, even the United States recognizes that..

Lord Dreadmore

March 8th, 2008, 9:43 pm

OK, I'm a Christian-Jew. I am in good company. The Apostle Paul, Peter, Matthew, Luke, etc. were all Christian-Jews.indeed they were.

Stuball

March 8th, 2008, 9:47 pm

My apologies on not listing Jewish, I should have done that instead of Agnostic. I ran out of lines.
Your "oversight" speaks volumes:rolleyes:

Warrior4God

March 8th, 2008, 9:53 pm

Your "oversight" speaks volumes:rolleyes:

The person gave an apology.:rolleyes:

Your post speaks even louder:whistle:

Stuball

March 8th, 2008, 9:56 pm

Thank you.
Ditto Although I am in no way an Orthodox Jew and my knowledge and devotion pales in comparison to yours.
I will always remember your kindness in my time of sorrow

Stuball

March 8th, 2008, 10:06 pm

The person gave an apology.:rolleyes:

Your post speaks even louder:whistle:
I understand the apology but I wonder about the omission of Judaism when so many forms of Christianity made the list

Poisonshady313

March 8th, 2008, 10:20 pm

LD, the problem is, though I've illustrated the difference between being a Jew and being Jewish, you refuse to acknowledge that the two are different things. I'm neither doublespeaking nor tail chasing. I'm putting it plainly.

Being Jewish is not like having blue eyes. It's a heritage that comes with certain expected beliefs and behavioral tendencies (usually having to do with observance of Jewish law). I'm not saying you have to follow the law perfectly to be a Jew, or even to be Jewish... I am saying that if you reject your heritage by following a path that is clearly not the Torah, there is no tendency to act like that which is expected of you by your heritage.

Being a Jew is what's given to you by being born to a woman who is a Jew.

Being Jewish is a description of one's behavioral tendencies, as they tend to conform with the standard behavioral conduct of a Jew (which is, if not observance to the Torah, at least maintaining the basic beliefs of Judaism which adherents of other religions do not.)

Lord Dreadmore

March 9th, 2008, 12:18 am

Being Jewish is not like having blue eyes. It's a heritage that comes with certain expected beliefs and behavioral tendencies (usually having to do with observance of Jewish law).

Here PS you try to maintain that only "Jewish" are Jews who fit into the modern interpretation of what it means to follow the Torah. Perhaps Moses would say the same about modern Jews since they are nothing close to those with whom he had to deal, hes looking around and not seeing any sacrifice, a temple as rubble, then he looks around the world at those who think messiah will do it, they need do nothing. The example of Ezra goes out the door.....just not "Jewish" enough. See how these kinds of things can go?

Good thing those people were not called Jews but Hebrews/Israel..only Judah and Benjamin ever practiced the "religion of the Jews" (no Judaism ever mentioned, unless you just break it down to the "ism of Judah") and these two tribes were the only ones who were ever referred to as Jews, as in The House of Judah...but I digress.

expected beliefs and behavioral tendenciesWow...this would make sense if you were saying "in order to be a certain kind of religious Jew you must do ABC..." that would cover the "expected beliefs" and I would agree with that, as in "raise your children the way you want to..."

However, "behavioral tendencies?" what the heck? are you actually suggesting that a racial Jew has certain behavior patterns built into his DNA, And as such MUST perform in certain personality characteristics? Like he must dance a certain way, or sing a certain way, or talk a certain way? Because these things are behavioral, and if you're implying certain "tendencies" then you're saying thats its "in their genes." No offense, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, so please clarify your position as I don't want to accuse you of anything. However, this seems to me to be similar to saying "a black person must be good at basketball, its in his genes" a "behavioral tendency." Please clarify your point, I'm a bit concerned here.

Being a Jew is what's given to you by being born to a woman who is a Jew.Now you admit that being a Jew is racial.

Yet, you maintain that unless this racial Jew involves himself with a certain methodology of belief and practice he is to be considered non-Jewish as if "Jewish" is itself a religion or some inborn behavior, and denying this urge to behave a certain way, or reject these certain beliefs eliminates his "Jewishness".

It seems to me that this label of "Jewish" in the way that you are using it can be a foundation of racial, ethnic, and religious divide, and attitudes like that lead to elitism on one side and degradation on the other, again please clarify your point.

I have a book: The History of The Jewish People...maybe I should chuck it in the trash since there is no such thing as "the Jewish people?" (its not a book about any certain sect BTW) http://www.amazon.com/History-Jewish-People-Hayim-Ben-Sasson/dp/0674397312

here we have an example of race relations between Jews and other races
http://rac.org/advocacy/issues/issuerr/index.cfm?#values

Poisonshady313

March 9th, 2008, 1:14 am

Here PS you try to maintain that only "Jewish" are Jews who fit into the modern interpretation of what it means to follow the Torah. Perhaps Moses would say the same about modern Jews since they are nothing close to those with whom he had to deal, hes looking around and not seeing any sacrifice, a temple as rubble, then he looks around the world at those who think messiah will do it, they need do nothing. The example of Ezra goes out the door.....just not "Jewish" enough. See how these kinds of things can go? There are no Orthodox Jews that believe "they need do nothing". Don't try criticizing a "modern interpretation of what it means to follow the Torah" when you don't know what that is.

However, "behavioral tendencies?" what the heck? are you actually suggesting that a racial Jew has certain behavior patterns built into his DNA, And as such MUST perform in certain personality characteristics? No. He inherited an everlasting covenant by being a member of the tribe, and as such must learn and follow the Torah.

Like he must dance a certain way, or sing a certain way, or talk a certain way? Because these things are behavioral, and if you're implying certain "tendencies" then you're saying thats its "in their genes." I was thinking more along the lines of tendencies established by an upbringing by Jewish parents. No offense, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, so please clarify your position as I don't want to accuse you of anything. However, this seems to me to be similar to saying "a black person must be good at basketball, its in his genes" a "behavioral tendency." I hope by now you realize that it's not similar at all.

The word Jewish has a tendency to be tossed around a lot... but the bottom line is, a person who calls him or herself a "Jewish Christian" is not.

A Christian is a Christian. A Jew will always be a Jew, but isn't Jewish when they reject Judaism.

All these posts and I think we've simply been arguing about the difference between an adjective and a noun.

A Jew ceasing to be Jewish doesn't mean they're no longer a Jew... it means they're no longer Jewish. They can be again, more easily than a non-Jew can become a Jew.

Claymore

March 9th, 2008, 1:16 am

Non-Denominational Pragmatic Protestant.

Poisonshady313

March 9th, 2008, 1:18 am

Non-Denominational Pragmatic Protestant.

I don't know much about how Christian denominations (or non-denominations) work...

A non-denominational protestant? what does that mean?

Claymore

March 9th, 2008, 1:28 am

I don't know much about how Christian denominations (or non-denominations) work...

A non-denominational protestant? what does that mean?

I'm cheap and I keep things really simple.

Voxpopuli

March 9th, 2008, 4:50 am

so all Jews act the same huh? they all walk the same, look the same, talk the same, think the same, sing the same, dance the same, eat the same, drink the same etc..on and on? seriously this kind of thinking just makes me shake my head.

"Jewish" is a race, even the United States recognizes that..

U.S. law establishes that there is a Jewish race in order to establish anti-discrimination laws. Science on the other hand has not established that there is a Jewish race. If there is a Jewish race how is this race genetically distinct from the Caucasian race?

Harmonious

March 9th, 2008, 5:36 pm

I understand your desire to make that claim. That's because it's true.

hmmm..very interesting. I saw the orthodox out protesting the gay parade, very interesting.Just because they are Jews doesn't mean that homosexuals are necessarily behaving appropriately. And if Orthodox Jews protest this behavior, then so be it. The Jewish homosexuals are still Jews.

yes they areNo they aren't.

"It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox."

http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm#WhoI never said that a Jew who is an atheist isn't Jewish. Atheism isn't a religion.

A Jew who abandons Judaism to pick a different religion has forgone the benefits of the Covenant of the Eternal. That is a definition. So they have given up being Jewish. Even if they are still Jews.

you said he was not a Jew after he said he wasSo I agreed with my brother, perhaps conceding I was wrong. So sue me.

right, Judaism..that is a religious expressionAmong other things...

yes, they are JewsI thought we covered this. I'll do it again.

Yup, they are Jews from the day they're born until the day they die. But people who exchange their Judaism (the religious expression, if it makes you happy to call it that) for expressing a different religion are no longer allowed to associate with Orthodox Jews in a fashion that permits said Orthodox Jews to treat them as fellow Jews. It is how Jewish law works.

You may object to that. I don't think I care.

no, they cease from practicing JudaismYup. That's what it means to stop being Jewish.

interesting way of putting that. Fact ,they have not denied the covenant, they have embrace itNo, they reject the covenant. You may be one of those interesting folks who believe that the only "complete" Jews are the ones who have accepted Christianity :rolleyes: but this is a rejection of the covenant that God originally made with Israel.

never said they were

I never made the claim
You implied as much by stating that all Orthodox Jews were ready to sell themselves as slaves to the Iranians, or whatever else happened at that Holocaust deniers convention.

You don't get out of that one so easy. You pretty much DID equate all Orthodox Jewry with Neturei Karta. :snooty:

im not interested in programs.But you were willing to say that all Orthodox Jews are ready to sell themselves as slaves to Iran.

One protest or convention defines Orthodox Jews for you, but you refuse to acknowledge what many Orthodox Jews ACTUALLY do. Interesting.

wow, amazing..and supposedly I'm the disrespectful one...You are.

sacrifice, temple? no? hmm... When the Temple stands, we'll deal with it then. Until then, we have to make do with what we have (or don't have).

Yahshuah is the word made flesh.Only in your own heart and mind. It is beliefs like this that show that a person isn't a part of the Covenant God made with Israel.

I'm sorry that Torah law doesn't match your idea of what SHOULD be. I'm only telling you what is.
You think you are cute. You don't KNOW what Torah law is. I've studied it, and I KNOW what Torah law is (in many cases...).

You are still ignorant, and it shows.

Harmonious

March 9th, 2008, 5:37 pm

OK, I'm a Christian-Jew. I am in good company. The Apostle Paul, Peter, Matthew, Luke, etc. were all Christian-Jews.
They weren't company that I would want to keep.

I wouldn't want to keep company with the Jews who worshipped the Golden Calf, either.

Harmonious

March 9th, 2008, 5:39 pm

Ditto Although I am in no way an Orthodox Jew and my knowledge and devotion pales in comparison to yours.
I will always remember your kindness in my time of sorrow

:hug:

Harmonious

March 9th, 2008, 6:12 pm

U.S. law establishes that there is a Jewish race in order to establish anti-discrimination laws. Science on the other hand has not established that there is a Jewish race. If there is a Jewish race how is this race genetically distinct from the Caucasian race?

Or black Jews? Or Middle-Eastern Jews? Or Eastern-Asian Jews? :think:

(For the record, I'm agreeing with you.)

Warrior4God

March 9th, 2008, 7:54 pm

They weren't company that I would want to keep.

I wouldn't want to keep company with the Jews who worshipped the Golden Calf, either.

Wham straight to the Jaw of Christians and Jesus.

You are the best at keeping your remarks from point blank assaults.

I can see a person like you that follows Jewish law and rejects Jesus as the messiah would think any Jew that believes the NT is kinda like a traitor or something but maybe they see something you don't see.

Harmonious

March 9th, 2008, 7:56 pm

Wham straight to the Jaw of Christians and Jesus.

You are the best at keeping your remarks from point blank assaults.

I can see as a person that follows Jewish law and reject Jesus as the messiah thinks any Jew that believes the NT is kinda like a traitor or something :) Thanks for noticing.
but maybe they see something you don't see.
No, not really.

Warrior4God

March 9th, 2008, 8:00 pm

:) Thanks for noticing.

No, not really.

LOL your a trip girl no beating around the bush.

Harmonious

March 9th, 2008, 8:09 pm

LOL your a trip girl no beating around the bush.

:mrgreen:

Poisonshady313

March 9th, 2008, 8:36 pm

Wham straight to the Jaw of Christians and Jesus.

You are the best at keeping your remarks from point blank assaults.

I can see a person like you that follows Jewish law and rejects Jesus as the messiah would think any Jew that believes the NT is kinda like a traitor or something but maybe they see something you don't see.

I've been comparing Jesus to the golden calf since I've been here at hannity. I think I've even made a thread out of it.

It's no more an assault than saying that Jews are going to hell for not believing in Jesus.

Whether or not you personally believe that isn't the issue, but it's clear that some people on hannity have that opinion.

Warrior4God

March 9th, 2008, 8:50 pm

I've been comparing Jesus to the golden calf since I've been here at hannity. I think I've even made a thread out of it.

It's no more an assault than saying that Jews are going to hell for not believing in Jesus.

Whether or not you personally believe that isn't the issue, but it's clear that some people on hannity have that opinion.

I wasn't remarking in a negative way.......just an observation poison.

I have nothing against harmonious and she has every right to voice her view.

I do think a few times in the past you guys went a bit too far with regards to the respect part of this forum..........heck I believe I have as well.

Poisonshady313

March 9th, 2008, 11:40 pm

I wasn't remarking in a negative way.......just an observation poison.

I have nothing against harmonious and she has every right to voice her view.

I do think a few times in the past you guys went a bit too far with regards to the respect part of this forum..........heck I believe I have as well.

Fair enough. I saw the word "assault" and a red flag went up. But no matter... good times are to be had by all.

LJB1031

March 10th, 2008, 12:50 am

They weren't company that I would want to keep.
Why not?
I wouldn't want to keep company with the Jews who worshipped the Golden Calf, either.
How can you, by any stretch of the imagination, equate the two? Jesus was and is God in human form. The golden calf was an inanimate object.

Abe

March 10th, 2008, 12:53 am

How can you, by any stretch of the imagination, equate the two? Jesus was and is God in human form. The golden calf was an inanimate object.
You are entitled to have that opinion. We don't have to share it.

Abe

March 10th, 2008, 1:31 am

I never said she did not have a right to speak, and regardless of what she says no religion as the right to determine for someone else what their race is or is not.

Baptist is not a race

those orthodox who want to destroy the state of Israel and live under the rule of foreign governments.

I never said she did not have a right to her opinion...since you say you disagree maybe you could point out your disagreement?
Jewish is not a race.

"Those Orthodox" are "Neturei Karta" ("Guardians of the City" in Aramaic). The bulk of them live in Jerusalem, protected by the govt they don't recognise. Among Orthodox Jews (actually Ultra-Orthodox) they are a tiny minority. The ones who went to Iran for the Holocaust-denial fest were from this sect. Most of the Orthodox Jews in the world are Zionist. The anti-Zionists are a minority.

My disagreement with Harmonious is religious. I do not follow Halakha (the code of Jewish Law that includes Torah, Talmud and The Oral Law). Orthodox Jews, like Harmonious and PS, do. I consider myself to be as Jewish as they are, but respect their right not to consider me so. I have absolutely no problem with it. According to Halakha, which they follow, I am less Jewish than they are.

Poisonshady313

March 10th, 2008, 1:46 am

Why not?

How can you, by any stretch of the imagination, equate the two?

I'll show you how easy it is.

Jesus was and is God in human form. The golden calf was an inanimate object.

Those who worshiped the golden calf believed it was God in golden calf form.

Harmonious

March 10th, 2008, 11:49 am

My disagreement with Harmonious is religious. I do not follow Halakha (the code of Jewish Law that includes Torah, Talmud and The Oral Law). Orthodox Jews, like Harmonious and PS, do. I consider myself to be as Jewish as they are, but respect their right not to consider me so.I wouldn't consider you less Jewish. I would consider you less observant.

You may not follow Jewish law, but at least you haven't ditched your Judaism to be part of some other religion. That is making the difference that Poisonshady and I are discussing.

I have absolutely no problem with it. According to Halakha, which they follow, I am less Jewish than they are.
Or, at least, less connected to the Torah than we are.

buflineks

March 10th, 2008, 1:55 pm

According to Halakha, which they follow, I am less Jewish than they are.

But look at it this way abe............

You'll never be "less Jewish" than me.
:mrgreen:

Abe

March 10th, 2008, 2:01 pm

But look at it this way abe............

You'll never be "less Jewish" than me.
:mrgreen:

Aahh, victory is sweet...but I shall be magnaminous...I shall smile at you and brighten your day...:lol:

buflineks

March 10th, 2008, 2:07 pm

Aahh, victory is sweet...but I shall be magnaminous...I shall smile at you and brighten your day...:lol:

Thank you.

I can use any smiles I can get nowadays.;)

Abe

March 10th, 2008, 2:13 pm

I wouldn't consider you less Jewish. I would consider you less observant.

You may not follow Jewish law, but at least you haven't ditched your Judaism to be part of some other religion. That is making the difference that Poisonshady and I are discussing.

Or, at least, less connected to the Torah than we are.

I sit corrected, less observant.

I won't deny the God of Israel, because I have faith. I understand the difference you refered to. I agree that I am less connected to the Torah than you are. I'm OK with that. I feel just as Jewish.

I was trying to explain it to LD in a way he would understand.

Let me put it this way...On Yom Kippur, in Israel, I don't fast. I usually don't go to Shul either. I do report to the Police Station as a volunteer in the "Mishmar Ezrahi" (Civil Guard), and go to patrol Synagogues with a rifle. I don't feel a need to pray at the Shul, but I do feel that I'm doing my bit, and participating, by protecting those who are praying. Needless to say, I don't stand in front of praying, and fasting, people while munching on a sandwitch.

Abe

March 10th, 2008, 2:14 pm

Thank you.

I can use any smiles I can get nowadays.;)

True greatness lies in being kind to mere mortals...:lol:

Voxpopuli

March 11th, 2008, 3:36 am

Or black Jews? Or Middle-Eastern Jews? Or Eastern-Asian Jews? :think:

(For the record, I'm agreeing with you.)

LOL I gathered that. Now the real question, do you prefer Nathans kosher hot dogs or Hebrew national?:shifty:

Harmonious

March 11th, 2008, 1:19 pm

LOL I gathered that. Now the real question, do you prefer Nathans kosher hot dogs or Hebrew national?:shifty:
Personally, I prefer Shofar, or Rubashkin's. Meal Mart brand is very good, too.

buflineks

March 11th, 2008, 1:31 pm

A little off topic post.

Harmonious, Poison,

My hat is off to you and all the members of the Orthodox Jewish Faith.
In my research I've discovered (with help from you and others) that it isn't easy.

600+ "Laws" to live by.

I must say that the orthodox Jews that I do know are pretty cool people. I'm Catholic and have a hard time trying to living up to the expectations and doctrine of my faith. Compared to the Orthodox Jewish faith, it really doesn't look that hard. Orthodox Jews are a tough and devote type of people. I respect that a lot.

Just my $.03

Harmonious

March 11th, 2008, 1:57 pm

CogitoErgoSum

March 11th, 2008, 7:52 pm

Atheist, but aspiring to become agnostic!

Gidon

March 11th, 2008, 8:09 pm

Jewish by blood, Christian interdenominational.

Sceptic

March 11th, 2008, 9:15 pm

Brought up as a Catholic.

Now a deeply committed atheist.

buflineks

March 11th, 2008, 9:17 pm

Now a deeply committed atheist.

Which hospital??:mrgreen:

sorry sceptic............I couldn't resist.........sophomoric humor is upon me now.

5thIDSoldier

March 12th, 2008, 10:36 am

Baptist.

Lord Dreadmore

March 18th, 2008, 8:47 pm

They weren't company that I would want to keep.
oh, hell, I would...talk about people who changed the world. A few vagabonds like these guys following some Jewish nut, throw in a few scholars and BAM!! Global change.

I wouldn't want to keep company with the Jews who worshipped the Golden Calf, either.Neither would I, and I would go even further and say that I would not want to keep company with the likes of those who stoned Stephen or screamed out for the crucifixion of Jesus. If you're going to do it, do it right, dump association with all heretics, dontcha think?

Harmonious

March 18th, 2008, 10:39 pm

oh, hell, I would...talk about people who changed the world. A few vagabonds like these guys following some Jewish nut, throw in a few scholars and BAM!! Global change.I still wouldn't want to have anything to do with these guys. I would be more of a follower of Rabban Gamliel, myself.

Neither would I, and I would go even further and say that I would not want to keep company with the likes of those who stoned Stephen or screamed out for the crucifixion of Jesus. If you're going to do it, do it right, dump association with all heretics, dontcha think?Whatever.

oldtimer

March 18th, 2008, 11:59 pm

Baptist who attended many a Presbyterian, Methodist, Episcopal and Catholic service while studying their beliefs before finding a Church that spoke of the Bible they way I had come to understand it, Mormon.

Bow To The Robots

March 19th, 2008, 1:51 am

Uhhh? Jewish?

Rhonda

March 19th, 2008, 2:37 am

:confused: The point being?

Claymore

March 21st, 2008, 10:57 pm

I'm not a member of Rev. Wright's flock.

JenT

March 21st, 2008, 11:29 pm

My apologies on not listing Jewish, I should have done that instead of Agnostic. I ran out of lines.

ROFL! Agnostic...not knowing, omgoodness!

Technically I'm Catholic but I haven't been going because of a few disagreements I have. I've been going to Calvary Chapel, love that church. But that does not mean I think everyone else is going to hell! I think it's all about true believers, in many denominations I think there will be some that are and some that aren't, they are as long as the foundation is Christ and Him crucified.

THE LIGHT

April 3rd, 2008, 8:25 pm

My apologies on not listing Jewish, I should have done that instead of Agnostic. I ran out of lines.

It should have been more like this:

Christian
Jewish
Mormon
Muslim
Buhdist
Hindu
Athiest

I am sure all of those would have fit;)

orbitaldecay

April 3rd, 2008, 9:12 pm

It should have been more like this:

Christian
Jewish
Mormon
Muslim
Buhdist
Hindu
Athiest

I am sure all of those would have fit;)

Only if the LDS are allowed to vote for two;)

THE LIGHT

April 3rd, 2008, 9:18 pm

Only if the LDS are allowed to vote for two;)

That would be a problem....

orbitaldecay

April 3rd, 2008, 9:25 pm

That would be a problem....

No, were not going to vote for mormonism and satanism, silly.;)

THE LIGHT

April 3rd, 2008, 9:43 pm

No, were not going to vote for mormonism and satanism, silly.;)

Well, that eliminates one choice. Still it looks to be a problem.:think:

Reeder

April 3rd, 2008, 10:45 pm

It should have been more like this:

Christian
Jewish
Mormon
Muslim
Buhdist
Hindu
Athiest

I am sure all of those would have fit;)

:rolleyes:

scipio337

April 3rd, 2008, 10:54 pm

Because that's the category you voted in:))

Please stop looking for offense where none is intended.Waitaminute....now Christian is italicized in "Catholic"!!

Fire Watch

April 3rd, 2008, 10:56 pm

It's a conspiracy.

buflineks

April 4th, 2008, 3:18 am

since one of the catagories is "Christian-Catholic" does that mean there's a "Jewish-Catholic" catagory?

How about Cathamon or Mormolic?

tislaw

April 4th, 2008, 3:24 am

since one of the catagories is "Christian-Catholic" does that mean there's a "Jewish-Catholic" catagory?

How about Cathamon or Mormolic?
I can't vote if there isn't a Cathamon or Mormolic option...no way, not going to happen.....harumph.

Reeder

April 4th, 2008, 11:35 am

Waitaminute....now Christian is italicized in "Catholic"!!

LOL! Yeah, I feel pretty red in the face after that one. :redface:

RayMan

June 10th, 2008, 7:08 pm

Bump - because the stats are interesting.

IRISH28

June 10th, 2008, 7:14 pm

I am a Christion Gnostic:flag:

RayMan

June 10th, 2008, 7:16 pm

I am a Christion Gnostic:flag:

Hi Irish,
Glad to see you here.

JenT

June 10th, 2008, 7:18 pm

Oh nuts! I thought Tislaw was back!

I'm confirmed latent Catholic/Calvary Chapel

RayMan

June 10th, 2008, 7:26 pm

Oh nuts! I thought Tislaw was back!

I'm confirmed latent Catholic/Calvary Chapel

Quit straddling the fence girl. :whistle:

Calibabe

June 10th, 2008, 8:24 pm

A very devout Catholic.

free2B

June 10th, 2008, 9:02 pm

A very devout Catholic.

Presibyterian, Church of God, Meditation and Yoga, Tao, Hinduism; reading some Vedas and the Bhaghavad Gita, originaly witten in Sanscrit one of the oldest known languages Lao Tzu, Zorastorium, Gilgamesh, exerpts of the Egyptian Book of the Dead, confusionism, wit for al times, some of the Holy Koran which names our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ as a Holy Prophet of God, Greek and Roman mythologies and the Holy Bible several times.
I am a Christian who believes in Jesus Christ as the Resurrected Lord and Saviour of mankind, who came to Earth to teach each of us of God the Father, and who in His Redeeming Grace, we who Believe are Saved unto the Kingdom of God, by the Power of the Holy Ghost, who was imparted by the Christ upon His Ascension, as the Comforter of the Believers until the times of the Heavenly City of God. Jesus Christ; as the only begotten Son of God, I currently attend a Baptist Church, as the Preacher is quite entertaining, and funny during his very thought provoking sermons:pray:

JenT

June 10th, 2008, 9:06 pm

Quit straddling the fence girl. :whistle:

Yep, in a most ladylike way :)

RayMan

June 10th, 2008, 9:26 pm

Yep, in a most ladylike way :)

Going side-saddle huh? You do know that spelled doom for Slew Foot Sue don't you?

Beware the bustle.

JenT

June 10th, 2008, 10:29 pm

Going side-saddle huh? You do know that spelled doom for Slew Foot Sue don't you?

Beware the bustle.

:)) :)) :))

But RAYMAN, that look is SO GOOD ON YOU!

RayMan

June 10th, 2008, 10:30 pm

:)) :)) :))

But RAYMAN, that look is SO GOOD ON YOU!

You are obviously mixing me up with Sir Mix A Lot. And he wasn't talking about his...

LeroyBrown

June 10th, 2008, 10:39 pm

Christian - non-denominational.

None of 'em will have me.:twisted:

JenT

June 10th, 2008, 10:41 pm

Christian - non-denominational.

None of 'em will have me.:twisted:

:hug: :hug: :hug:

I'm sure we'd all LOVE to have you!

RayMan

June 10th, 2008, 10:44 pm

Christian - non-denominational.

None of 'em will have me.:twisted:

G'Day Mate. :cool:

Claymore

June 10th, 2008, 10:46 pm

I've got lots of faith.
I don't let religion get in the way of that.

outdamyboat

June 10th, 2008, 10:55 pm

I'm confirmed latent Catholic/Calvary Chapel

JenT,

I think that might make you a Cathocostal :think:

RayMan

June 10th, 2008, 11:00 pm

JenT,

I think that might make you a Cathocostal :think:

Technically I think that is Catholicostal. But I could be wrong. ;)

JenT

June 10th, 2008, 11:04 pm

JenT,

I think that might make you a Cathocostal :think:

Well I'm on the Central Coast...Catholicoastal, that's EXCELLENT outdamyboat & RayMan!! THANKS!

JenT

June 10th, 2008, 11:05 pm

I've got lots of faith.
I don't let religion get in the way of that.

CLAYMORE! Just sit next to me, will ya already?

outdamyboat

June 10th, 2008, 11:07 pm

Technically I think that is Catholicostal. But I could be wrong. ;)

Why would the Catholics get the whole name? You turned into CD on me? :shifty:

Semi-Sweet

June 10th, 2008, 11:07 pm

Yep, in a most ladylike way :)

I just stay up in the air and don't lite anywhere. ;) :cool:

RayMan

June 10th, 2008, 11:08 pm

Why would the Catholics get the whole name? You turned into CD on me? :shifty:

Shucks, I wouldn't have thrown the "C" part in at all if it was me. I think what you end up as is more important than what you started out as. I'm just an ecumenical kind of guy. :cool:

RayMan

June 10th, 2008, 11:08 pm

Well I'm on the Central Coast...Catholicoastal, that's EXCELLENT outdamyboat & RayMan!! THANKS!

Oh, great. Another Pentecostal Surfer Chick.

captusa

June 10th, 2008, 11:09 pm

Yep, in a most ladylike way :)

Wouldn't it be more ladylike to sit on the fence side-saddle instead of straddling?

captusa

June 10th, 2008, 11:15 pm

The question was what is your religious affiliation.
There are no organizations or denominations with which Atheists or Agnostics can be affiliated with the possible exception of the Uniterians.

Meriweather

June 10th, 2008, 11:18 pm

The question was what is your religious affiliation.
There are no organizations or denominations with which Atheists or Agnostics can be affiliated with the possible exception of the Uniterians.

My mother-in-law once said something to the effect that although she believed she was an atheist, she thought she was a Christian atheist. (We're all still trying to figure that one out.)

JenT

June 10th, 2008, 11:23 pm

Wouldn't it be more ladylike to sit on the fence side-saddle instead of straddling?

Whatever you say hon (fluffing out skirt over fence)

JenT

June 10th, 2008, 11:24 pm

My mother-in-law once said something to the effect that although she believed she was an atheist, she thought she was a Christian atheist. (We're all still trying to figure that one out.)

:)) :)) :))

And my aunt said God said He would never get involved with us again after the flood.

LOL THINK about that, that was waaaaaaaaaaaay before Jesus!

Lord Dreadmore

June 10th, 2008, 11:31 pm

Why isn't Jewish on the list?are you feeling picked on? what difference doe it make, should have listed all jewish sects or just yours? dont be so serious life is too short

captusa

June 10th, 2008, 11:47 pm

are you feeling picked on? what difference doe it make, should have listed all jewish sects or just yours? dont be so serious life is too short

Jewish denominations.
It is forbidden on the religious forum to refer to the religion of others as sects.

jade84116

June 10th, 2008, 11:48 pm

I'm an unaffiliated Christian.:)

captusa

June 10th, 2008, 11:50 pm

Jewish denominations.
It is forbidden on the religious forum to refer to the religion of others as sects.

Sorry Dred.
You can't call the religion of others "cults".
Sects is probably O.K.

RayMan

June 10th, 2008, 11:56 pm

The question was what is your religious affiliation.
There are no organizations or denominations with which Atheists or Agnostics can be affiliated with the possible exception of the Uniterians.

The guy who set up the poll is neither a scientist nor a theologian. Just an innocent boy from Alabama.

RayMan

June 10th, 2008, 11:57 pm

My mother-in-law once said something to the effect that although she believed she was an atheist, she thought she was a Christian atheist. (We're all still trying to figure that one out.)

I wish I had a gold star to award for that one! :clap:

DarthBush

June 10th, 2008, 11:57 pm

I'm considering converting to judism

RayMan

June 10th, 2008, 11:59 pm

I'm considering converting to judism

Hey Judism? I thought you hated the Beatles?

outdamyboat

June 11th, 2008, 12:00 am

Jewish denominations.
It is forbidden on the religious forum to refer to the religion of others as sects.

I think sect is fine, captusa. I know that one definition of 'sect' could involve a group that deviates from the normal tradition.

But, the definition of 'sect' is not primarly negative is it? I use the words "Christian sects" frequently on the RF and have never heard or read any objections. I think it may depend on the 'flavor' of the post.

Any one know for sure?

RayMan

June 11th, 2008, 12:01 am

I think sect is fine, captusa. I know that one definition of 'sect' could involve a group that deviates from the normal tradition.

But, the definition of 'sect' is not primarly negative is it? I use the words "Christian sects" frequently on the RF and have never heard or read any objections. I think it may depend on the 'flavor' of the post.

Any one know for sure?

Nothing negative about the word sect. Just means a splinter group.

CID_0687

June 11th, 2008, 1:15 am

Sorry Dred.
You can't call the religion of others "cults".
Sects is probably O.K.
I would think a sect would be a denomination. Or perhaps a breakdown of a denomination, such as, Southern Baptist, American Baptist, Freewill Baptist, United Methodist, Congregational Methodist. I don't see anything wrong with the word sect myself.

Lord Dreadmore

June 11th, 2008, 1:20 am

Jewish denominations.
It is forbidden on the religious forum to refer to the religion of others as sects.
i think you mean "cult" a sect is not a cult.

Anyway different sects of one religion are just different outworkings of the overall religious framework.

Sect - A group of people forming a distinct unit within a larger group by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice.

Denomination - A group of religious congregations having its own organization and a distinctive faith

means pretty much the same thing

CID_0687

June 11th, 2008, 1:46 am

Ya know I might need to change my vote on here...I'm Pentecostal but have been attending a Baptist church for a couple months...And did I mention I was raised Episcopal?

RayMan

June 11th, 2008, 2:14 am

Ya know I might need to change my vote on here...I'm Pentecostal but have been attending a Baptist church for a couple months...And did I mention I was raised Episcopal?

Did you stop believing in the gifts of the Spirit being manifest today? If not, you are still Pentecostal. Pentecost isn't the name over the door, it's the Holy Ghost in the heart.

CID_0687

June 11th, 2008, 2:22 am

Did you stop believing in the gifts of the Spirit being manifest today? If not, you are still Pentecostal. Pentecost isn't the name over the door, it's the Holy Ghost in the heart.
In that case I'm a Pentecostal Baptistalean. :mrgreen:

RayMan

June 11th, 2008, 2:25 am

In that case I'm a Pentecostal Baptistalean. :mrgreen:

Exactly!

outdamyboat

June 11th, 2008, 9:33 am

In that case I'm a Pentecostal Baptistalean. :mrgreen:

I was raised Roman Catholic and was introduced to 'Pentecostal theology for today' by the Marist Brothers.

So, I think every Christian denomination has a few of us tounge speaking/Full Gospel believing wacko's (big smile)...once you get introduced to the fullness of the Gospel...there is no turning back!!! ;)

RayMan

June 11th, 2008, 9:45 am

I was raised Roman Catholic and was introduced to 'Pentecostal theology for today' by the Marist Brothers.

So, I think every Christian denomination has a few of us tounge speaking/Full Gospel believing wacko's (big smile)...once you get introduced to the fullness of the Gospel...there is no turning back!!! ;)

I thought the Marx brothers were Jewish. Oh, just re-read your post. Sorry. :mrgreen:

RayMan

June 11th, 2008, 5:19 pm

bump

CID_0687

June 11th, 2008, 7:52 pm

I was raised Roman Catholic and was introduced to 'Pentecostal theology for today' by the Marist Brothers.

So, I think every Christian denomination has a few of us tounge speaking/Full Gospel believing wacko's (big smile)...once you get introduced to the fullness of the Gospel...there is no turning back!!! ;)
I didn't think Harpo spoke period, let alone in tongues. :doh:

Lord Dreadmore

June 11th, 2008, 8:04 pm

nondenominational interdenominational anti-sectarianist.

Gidon

June 11th, 2008, 8:10 pm

I guess you are other, looks like he is looking for flavors of christian and their enemies the muslims and athiest.

So which are you????

CID_0687

June 11th, 2008, 8:14 pm

outdamyboat

June 11th, 2008, 8:17 pm

I explained this months ago when I started this thread. I only had ten spots and I wasn't thinking...I should have left agnostic off and put Jewish on there. I apologize to our Jewish posters once again for this.

Don't be too hard on yourself...their category is 'other'...what's wrong w/ other? I've been an 'other' at times...

Usually I'm a boring white, woman....but I get to be 'other' on occasion. :mrgreen:

(Oh..I didn't see ...it was Andrew...he's probably just messin' with your mind )

Super Solid

June 11th, 2008, 8:21 pm

I will tell you, if you give me $1.

Lord Dreadmore

June 11th, 2008, 9:07 pm

RayMan

June 11th, 2008, 9:15 pm

nondenominational interdenominational anti-sectarianist.

A very good thing to be. Good to see you LD.

Lord Dreadmore

June 12th, 2008, 12:01 am

A very good thing to be. Good to see you LD.hows it going, good I hope.

RayMan

June 12th, 2008, 12:11 am

hows it going, good I hope.

Pretty well thanks. Some physical challenges but I am trusting God to pull me through those. Lots of excitement on the home front. Our "baby" girl graduates high school on Friday night.

Semi-Sweet

June 12th, 2008, 12:27 am

Pretty well thanks. Some physical challenges but I am trusting God to pull me through those. Lots of excitement on the home front. Our "baby" girl graduates high school on Friday night.

When are you gonna post a pic of that baby girl Ray?

CID_0687

June 12th, 2008, 12:59 am

why are you apologizing?
I dunno would it be better if I withdrew my apology? Almost seems spiteful and that ain't right.

outdamyboat

June 12th, 2008, 1:07 am

I dunno would it be better if I withdrew my apology? Almost seems spiteful and that ain't right.

No, it's good for the soul to apologize...you didn't mean any harm and you don't want any one to feel bad, even Andrew...that's sweet.

HardHammer

June 12th, 2008, 9:49 am

I am a Reformed Calvary Chapel parishoner.

Bump/Ditto

RayMan

June 18th, 2008, 12:18 pm

Notice we have some new folk on the RF (Welcome!) so time to bump this baby again.

Joenumbertwo

June 18th, 2008, 12:19 pm

Idk I'm not religious but I am very spiritual (can I get any more cliche than thjat?), however my beliefs borrow heavily from Eastern religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism, and Taoism and some existential philosophies.

RayMan

June 18th, 2008, 12:28 pm

I said Christian-Other.

I chose that one because I do not particularily like lumping myself into one category. I rely on the Bible to get my doctrines.

With that said you could call me Pentecostal, Charismatic, Name it and claim it, blab it and grab it, call me a word of faither, call me a king, call me a priest, call me a joint-heir with Christ, call me blessed, call me faithful, you are welcome to call me whatever the Word calls me.

I figured you to have a Word of Faith background by your second post. Always refreshing to see someone with a strong foundation in the Word here in the RF.

Welcome!

texan_rep

June 18th, 2008, 12:38 pm

Thank you. I have been around before, but I misplaced my log in information. So I created a new account a little while ago.

But thanks anyways.

ummmmm...do you remember your old username?

RayMan

June 18th, 2008, 12:44 pm

Thank you. I have been around before, but I misplaced my log in information. So I created a new account a little while ago.

But thanks anyways.

You might want to check in at the mod forum. I think creating a new username without clearance from them might be an issue.

RayMan

June 18th, 2008, 12:47 pm

Ahh ok, I'll check with them then. Thanks!

My pleasure.

gpd®

June 18th, 2008, 2:31 pm

Pre-mil, pre-trib, 6th dispensation, Charismatic Pentecostal.

RayMan

June 18th, 2008, 2:58 pm

Pre-mil, pre-trib, 6th dispensation, Charismatic Pentecostal.

Great to hear it. Love to see those poll numbers go up! A couple of weeks ago I took some flack for stating that there are 500 million Pentecostal/Charismatics in the world. Turns out I was indeed wrong. Did some more checking and found out I was using data from 2000.

Here is an excerpt from a 2006 article in Christianity Today.

Global Expansion

With more than 580 million adherents (growing by 19 million per year and 54,000 per day), the Pentecostal/charismatic movement has become, in just 100 years, the fastest growing and most globally diverse expression of worldwide Christianity. At the current rate of growth, some researchers predict there will be 1 billion Pentecostals by 2025, most located in Asia, Africa, and Latin America.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/april/7.30.html

gpd®

June 18th, 2008, 3:17 pm

Great to hear it. Love to see those poll numbers go up! A couple of weeks ago I took some flack for stating that there are 500 million Pentecostal/Charismatics in the world. Turns out I was indeed wrong. Did some more checking and found out I was using data from 2000.

Here is an excerpt from a 2006 article in Christianity Today.

Global Expansion

With more than 580 million adherents (growing by 19 million per year and 54,000 per day), the Pentecostal/charismatic movement has become, in just 100 years, the fastest growing and most globally diverse expression of worldwide Christianity. At the current rate of growth, some researchers predict there will be 1 billion Pentecostals by 2025, most located in Asia, Africa, and Latin America.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/april/7.30.html

Oh yeah Ray, while the Catholic churches are emptying out down here, the non-denominational charismatic churches are running out of room for new members.

Harmonious

June 18th, 2008, 3:22 pm

are you feeling picked on? what difference doe it make, should have listed all jewish sects or just yours? dont be so serious life is too short

Dude, there is only one Judaism. How people view it and practice it... that gets complicated.

Judaism would only have to be listed once.

RayMan

June 18th, 2008, 3:22 pm

Oh yeah Ray, while the Catholic churches are emptying out down here, the non-denominational charismatic churches are running out of room for new members.

Pentecostalism is now larger than the Orthodox Church and Barrett and Johnson predict that it will surpass the Catholic Church in numbers by 2030. Absolutely mind-boggling.

Harmonious

June 18th, 2008, 3:23 pm

I'm considering converting to judism
Interesting. Let me know how that goes.

Predecessor

June 18th, 2008, 3:45 pm

Pentecostalism is now larger than the Orthodox Church and Barrett and Johnson predict that it will surpass the Catholic Church in numbers by 2030. Absolutely mind-boggling.

Ray, is there one official governing organization for the "Pentecostal Church" such as there is for the Roman Catholic church or the LDS Church? Or are there many separately governed churches that all share a Pentecostal flare?

gpd®

June 18th, 2008, 3:49 pm

Ray, is there one official governing organization for the "Pentecostal Church" such as there is for the Roman Catholic church or the LDS Church? Or are there many separately governed churches that all share a Pentecostal flare?

Even though there are many small Pentecostal denominations, I would venture a guess that the majority of churches are independent.

I have prolly seen several hundred non-denominational churches just within a 10 miles radius of my home.

biggestal

June 18th, 2008, 3:51 pm

Other--Unitarian. Thank you. :clap:

gpd®

June 18th, 2008, 3:53 pm

Other--Unitarian. Thank you. :clap:

Who was the other Uni, was it Jewel?

What happened to him?

RayMan

June 18th, 2008, 4:02 pm

Ray, is there one official governing organization for the "Pentecostal Church" such as there is for the Roman Catholic church or the LDS Church? Or are there many separately governed churches that all share a Pentecostal flare?

The latter. A number of large historic denominations like Assemblies of God, United Pentecostal, Church of God in Christ and Foursquare Gospel, a plethora of smaller denominations and tens of thousands of totally independent works.

The common denominator is Pentecostal doctrine and practice.

Predecessor

June 18th, 2008, 4:08 pm

Even though there are many small Pentecostal denominations, I would venture a guess that the majority of churches are independent.

I have prolly seen several hundred non-denominational churches just within a 10 miles radius of my home.

Interesting. From your answer I get the sense that "non-denominational" is essentially synonymous with "Pentecostal?" Is this correct? I have met people who say they attend a "non-denominational" churche and those who say they are "Pentecostal." Is this two different expressions that describe similar congregations?

gpd®

June 18th, 2008, 4:11 pm

Interesting. From your answer I get the sense that "non-denominational" is essentially synonymous with "Pentecostal?" Is this correct? I have met people who say they attend a "non-denominational" churche and those who say they are "Pentecostal." Is this two different expressions that describe similar congregations?

Non-denominational is a term for a church that has no other hierarchy to answer to outside of their doors.

Just as in the book of Acts, the rapid groth of Pentecostals churches seem to make it most prevelant of the non-dem's at this point.

Predecessor

June 18th, 2008, 4:16 pm

The latter. A number of large historic denominations like Assemblies of God, United Pentecostal, Church of God in Christ and Foursquare Gospel, a plethora of smaller denominations and tens of thousands of totally independent works.

The common denominator is Pentecostal doctrine and practice.

Thanks RayMan, the picture is staring to come into focus for me a little better :)

In a sense it seems like the term Pentecostal is similar to the way Protestant is used. Protestant organizations shared the same denominator of "protesting" or breaking from the Roman Catholic church.

Obviously different for Pentecostal, but help me narrow down that common theme -- what is the "doctrine and practice" that each Pentecostal church shares?

Also, what are the major differences that keep them from uniting?

Thanks!

NJConservative

June 18th, 2008, 4:19 pm

Christian Other. Very, very, other.

Predecessor

June 18th, 2008, 4:19 pm

Non-denominational is a term for a church that has no other hierarchy to answer to outside of their doors.

Just as in the book of Acts, the rapid groth of Pentecostals churches seem to make it most prevelant of the non-dem's at this point.

Gotcha. So Pentecostal practice simply makes up the majority of the "non-denominational" church's. Thanks for the clarification!

RayMan

June 18th, 2008, 4:21 pm

Interesting. From your answer I get the sense that "non-denominational" is essentially synonymous with "Pentecostal?" Is this correct? I have met people who say they attend a "non-denominational" churche and those who say they are "Pentecostal." Is this two different expressions that describe similar congregations?

Actually quite a few Non-Pentecostal/Charismatic folk or Christians who have no "home church" will also use the non-denominational brand, but people going to independent Pentecostal/Charismatic churches are probably the biggest group using the phrase.

RayMan

June 18th, 2008, 4:21 pm

Christian Other. Very, very, other.

:))

gpd®

June 18th, 2008, 4:22 pm

Also, what are the major differences that keep them from uniting?

Thanks!

Good questions, many have joined denominations.

I see others non-dem's as entrepreneurs.

My experiences have show me that there aren't many differences betwen the ones calls themself "full-gospel" churches.

melinda

June 18th, 2008, 4:35 pm

There are myriad religions missing.

mine's missing.....:((

RayMan

June 18th, 2008, 4:42 pm

Thanks RayMan, the picture is staring to come into focus for me a little better :)

In a sense it seems like the term Pentecostal is similar to the way Protestant is used. Protestant organizations shared the same denominator of "protesting" or breaking from the Roman Catholic church.

Obviously different for Pentecostal, but help me narrow down that common theme -- what is the "doctrine and practice" that each Pentecostal church shares?

Also, what are the major differences that keep them from uniting?

Thanks!

1. Good analogy very much like all the denominations that make up the Protestant band. But a different movement. We came out of Protestantism as the Protestants came out of Catholicism.

2. The main doctrinal distinctive would center around the belief that the present day Baptism of the Holy Spirit providing the enduement with "dunamis" or power promised in Luke 24:49 and poured out on the day of Pentecost (hence Pentecostalism) and throughout the book of Acts.

3. Pentecostal practice would be the actual manifestations of the Spirit as displayed in the book of Acts and which Paul teaches on in 1Cor 12-14. Some churches major in "the move of the Spirit," some are very balanced and some don't really go beyond the practice of "tongues as the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit." Not a phrase I totally agree with but pretty common, especially in some of the Historic Pentecostal denominations.

4. Water Baptism has been a sticking point with some groups. Apostolic folk believe in baptizing in the name of Jesus because that is how the Apostles baptized in the book of Acts. Others believe in using the formula of "in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit which is found in Matt 28.

Most Pentecostal/Charismatic folk simply don't believe there is a need for any sort of central authoritarian hierarchy in the church. We don't agree with either the Catholic or LDS churches that there is any need to have a priesthood that is able to trace its succesion through the laying on of hands back to the original twelve apostles. I know Catholic and LDS have differing views on this - I am speaking in general terms here.

There is probably more crossover between groups than in Catholic, Protestant or LDS ranks as we believe there is more uniting us than dividing us. In the missions works I have done in Africa, India, Panama, Mexico and Haiti I have ministered in many different Pentecostal churches. When public crusades are held here in the states or abroad believers of every Pentecostal/Charismatic flavor imaginable will join in.

Hope this helps. Hope it wasn't too long a post.

Predecessor

June 18th, 2008, 4:47 pm

Hope this helps. Hope it wasn't too long a post.

It helps and your post wasn't too long at all - just what I was looking for. Very much appreciated!

RayMan

June 18th, 2008, 4:48 pm

It helps and your post wasn't too long at all - just what I was looking for. Very much appreciated!

I'm pleased. Sometimes the spirit of verbosity comes on me and I go on and on.....

JenT

June 18th, 2008, 5:21 pm

I'm pleased. Sometimes the spirit of verbosity comes on me and I go on and on.....

I have NEVER seen RayMan say so much in one breath...wow

RayMan

June 18th, 2008, 5:33 pm

I have NEVER seen RayMan say so much in one breath...wow

Hey, at least I punctuated this time.

Reeder

June 18th, 2008, 5:38 pm

Hey, at least I punctuated this time.

:)) True dat!

gpd®

June 18th, 2008, 5:40 pm

Hey, at least I punctuated this time.

Great post Ray.

I would add the pre-post-ah-millinnial reign of Christ, pre-post-tribulation, dispensational/non-dispensational, and rapture views that minorly divide some of the Pentecostals also.

RayMan

June 18th, 2008, 5:40 pm

:)) True dat!

Did you actually count the words in that run on sentence the other day? I can't count that high. Gives me a nosebleed.

Reeder

June 18th, 2008, 5:41 pm

Did you actually count the words in that run on sentence the other day? I can't count that high. Gives me a nosebleed.

It was memorable, thats all I know.

RayMan

June 19th, 2008, 5:42 pm

It was memorable, thats all I know.

Yeah. I have been considering joining a Twelve- Step group for those stricken with compulsive verbosity.

It's called "On and On and On."

©

outdamyboat

June 19th, 2008, 6:42 pm

1. Good analogy very much like all the denominations that make up the Protestant band. But a different movement. We came out of Protestantism as the Protestants came out of Catholicism.

2. The main doctrinal distinctive would center around the belief that the present day Baptism of the Holy Spirit providing the enduement with "dunamis" or power promised in Luke 24:49 and poured out on the day of Pentecost (hence Pentecostalism) and throughout the book of Acts.

3. Pentecostal practice would be the actual manifestations of the Spirit as displayed in the book of Acts and which Paul teaches on in 1Cor 12-14. Some churches major in "the move of the Spirit," some are very balanced and some don't really go beyond the practice of "tongues as the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit." Not a phrase I totally agree with but pretty common, especially in some of the Historic Pentecostal denominations.

4. Water Baptism has been a sticking point with some groups. Apostolic folk believe in baptizing in the name of Jesus because that is how the Apostles baptized in the book of Acts. Others believe in using the formula of "in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit which is found in Matt 28.

Most Pentecostal/Charismatic folk simply don't believe there is a need for any sort of central authoritarian hierarchy in the church. We don't agree with either the Catholic or LDS churches that there is any need to have a priesthood that is able to trace its succesion through the laying on of hands back to the original twelve apostles. I know Catholic and LDS have differing views on this - I am speaking in general terms here.

There is probably more crossover between groups than in Catholic, Protestant or LDS ranks as we believe there is more uniting us than dividing us. In the missions works I have done in Africa, India, Panama, Mexico and Haiti I have ministered in many different Pentecostal churches. When public crusades are held here in the states or abroad believers of every Pentecostal/Charismatic flavor imaginable will join in.

Hope this helps. Hope it wasn't too long a post.

Oh my, that was long, ray, but well spoken :angel:.

You've referenced going to Africa so many times, my husband also has gone to Tanzania and Ghana on mission outreaches with both an independent Pentecostal and w/ an AoG church. He also has talked about the wonderfully cooperative spirit the churches have in these countries.

I know that one of the guys came down w/ Malaria and the Baptist had a physician that came to treat him. Also, he said in Africa they work 7 days a week....one of the guys said ..."Hey, we can't work today it's Sunday"...the local pastor's response, "Get busy, it's Monday some where right now". :)):))

oldtimer

June 19th, 2008, 8:41 pm

Voted way to late (so I did not vote). but Mormon.

RayMan

June 19th, 2008, 8:42 pm

Voted way to late (so I did not vote). but Mormon.

Poll is still open. Go ahead and vote oldtimer.

RayMan

July 2nd, 2008, 12:24 pm

bump for the new guys

Koushi Shinigami

July 2nd, 2008, 12:31 pm

Not voting.

bsleplatt

July 2nd, 2008, 1:14 pm

I am really surprised there are not more Methodist. only 3? And I am one of them.

In the last election, Bush, Cheney and Edwards ....they all claim Methodist as thier chosen denomination. Less then 2% represented here....and yet world wide there are like 75 million Methodist.

Vradic

July 2nd, 2008, 1:21 pm

Yeah. I have been considering joining a Twelve- Step group for those stricken with compulsive verbosity.

It's called "On and On and On."

©

What about a group for those of us who are compulsively apprehensive about letting others get to know us?

.... Anonymity Anonymous?

Vradic

July 2nd, 2008, 1:45 pm

Just a Christian...

Pick any name for the Church or for a local church assembly actually found in the Bible and I won't object to being labeled with it.

Here are just a few references...

Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

1Cr 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1Cr 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

Rom 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

1Th 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they [have] of the Jews:

...and a reference to the types of names by which we should not be called...

1Cr 1:9 God [is] faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
1Cr 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1Cr 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1Cr 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Cr 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

{edit:}
I strongly believe that all baptized believers are really in the ONE church that is the bride of Christ.
Acts 2: (NKJV)
46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

Hmm... Looking at the root meaning of the word "catholic"...

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
cath·o·lic Audio Help /ˈkæθəlɪk, ˈkæθlɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kath-uh-lik, kath-lik] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal.
2. universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all.
3. pertaining to the whole Christian body or church.

...is it proper to talk about the "pre-papist Catholic church"? (Oh, and forget the #1 from the above definition in religious context, as today "broad minded" is generally taken to mean universalism in the sense of thinking everything is right and nothing is wrong ... YIKES!)

RayMan

July 2nd, 2008, 1:46 pm

What about a group for those of us who are compulsively apprehensive about letting others get to know us?

.... Anonymity Anonymous?

Perfect for an anti-social guy like myself. Can I use a fake name and address when
I sign up?

Vradic

July 2nd, 2008, 2:00 pm

Perfect for an anti-social guy like myself. Can I use a fake name and address when
I sign up?

... uh.. Hi, my name is... uh, Yeah! like I'm really gonna tell any of you...
umm, and I'm an anonymist.

Semi-Sweet

July 2nd, 2008, 2:04 pm

Just a Christian...

Pick any name for the Church or for a local church assembly actually found in the Bible and I won't object to being labeled with it.

Here are just a few references...

...and a reference to the types of names by which we should not be called...

We might be kin. . .:D

Diverse as they might have been, the early disciples were united in one body.

In view of that calling into fellowship, Paul further begged that "you lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" Eph. 4:1-3. Then he reminded them that there were not different Gods and callings, different faiths and aspirations, and different baptisms directed by different Spirits so as to make them into different bodies. Therefore, there could be no justifiable cause for their rejecting each other to form different bodies.

Semi-Sweet

July 2nd, 2008, 3:11 pm

Just a Christian...

Pick any name for the Church or for a local church assembly actually found in the Bible and I won't object to being labeled with it.

Here are just a few references...

...and a reference to the types of names by which we should not be called...

{edit:}
I strongly believe that all baptized believers are really in the ONE church that is the bride of Christ.

Hmm... Looking at the root meaning of the word "catholic"...

...is it proper to talk about the "pre-papist Catholic church"? (Oh, and forget the #1 from the above definition in religious context, as today "broad minded" is generally taken to mean universalism in the sense of thinking everything is right and nothing is wrong ... YIKES!)

I strongly agree with your edited version. :D

hben

July 2nd, 2008, 3:15 pm

Why isn't Jewish on the list?

Good question. That was the team that handed the baton off to the team I'm on, and yet, some of the others on the list were in the other lanes on the track. Hmmmm...I think we need some answers here. Maybe we need to ask for a congressional hearing concerning this. :think:

Vradic

July 2nd, 2008, 4:56 pm

Good question. That was the team that handed the baton off to the team I'm on, and yet, some of the others on the list were in the other lanes on the track. Hmmmm...I think we need some answers here. Maybe we need to ask for a congressional hearing concerning this. :think:

Congressional Hearing!!! :doh:
They'd just end up creating a new tax for Religious poles, and then handing the matter over to activist Judges who would end up telling us the only items we could have on the list are:

1) Atheist
2) Practicing Secular Humanist (see #1) or Other Agnostic
3) neo-Darwinist Absolutist (see #'s 1 & 5, even Theistic Evolutionists are Expelled!)
. . . .http://www.expelledthemovie.com/
4) neo-Pagan Global-Warming earth-worshiper (see #'s 1, 2, 3 & 5)
5) Deist of nebulous beliefs who will never admit to the possibility of absolute moral law
6) Politically Correct Poly-theist who's only maintaining family tradition.
7) Deluded Religious Nut actually believes one or more supernatural beings exist; but who will keep silent in all public forums due to the NewSpeak Liberal Activist interpretation of the First Amendment! :silenced:

JenT

July 2nd, 2008, 7:51 pm

Congressional Hearing!!! :doh:
They'd just end up creating a new tax for Religious poles, and then handing the matter over to activist Judges who would end up telling us the only items we could have on the list are:

1) Atheist
2) Practicing Secular Humanist (see #1) or Other Agnostic
3) neo-Darwinist Absolutist (see #'s 1 & 5, even Theistic Evolutionists are Expelled!)
. . . .http://www.expelledthemovie.com/
4) neo-Pagan Global-Warming earth-worshiper (see #'s 1, 2, 3 & 5)
5) Deist of nebulous beliefs who will never admit to the possibility of absolute moral law
6) Politically Correct Poly-theist who's only maintaining family tradition.
7) Deluded Religious Nut actually believes one or more supernatural beings exist; but who will keep silent in all public forums due to the NewSpeak Liberal Activist interpretation of the First Amendment! :silenced:

my gosh this is so true it's SCAREY

texan_rep

July 2nd, 2008, 7:55 pm

...is it proper to talk about the "pre-papist Catholic church"?

No. One, "papist" is normally a pejorative (my usage in my own avatar is different because I AM one...and there are other examples)

Two, Peter was the first Pope.

hben

July 2nd, 2008, 11:52 pm

Vradic

July 3rd, 2008, 10:52 am

No. One, "papist" is normally a pejorative (my usage in my own avatar is different because I AM one...and there are other examples)

Two, Peter was the first Pope.

Maybe "pre-Constantinian" would be a better term.

Two, Peter was absolutely not the first Pope. He was a great Apostle and had the great privilege of delivering the first Gospel sermon on the day of Pentecost (which I understand as using the "keys to the Kingdom"), but was of equal station to the other Apostles. The papacy was the eventual result of escalation in prominence of certain bishops above others. I know we have different beliefs, and you are certainly entitled to yours, but I have to go with the holy scriptures rather than "church tradition" on this one.

Nevertheless, I didn't intend "papist" as a pejorative, but was only trying to suggest we should return all the way back to practicing Christianity as specifically recorded in the New Testament.