Continent-size toxic stew of plastic trash

[bioya1]

Something pretty disgusting that I never knew about:


.http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/19/SS6JS8RH0.DTL


At the start of the Academy Award-winning movie "American Beauty," a character videotapes a plastic grocery bag as it drifts into the air, an event he casts as a symbol of life's unpredictable currents, and declares the romantic moment as a "most beautiful thing."

To the eyes of an oceanographer, the image is pure catastrophe.

In reality, the rogue bag would float into a sewer, follow the storm drain to the ocean, then make its way to the so-called Great Pacific Garbage Patch - a heap of debris floating in the Pacific that's twice the size of Texas, according to marine biologists.

The enormous stew of trash - which consists of 80 percent plastics and weighs some 3.5 million tons, say oceanographers - floats where few people ever travel, in a no-man's land between San Francisco and Hawaii.
Marcus Eriksen, director of research and education at the Algalita Marine Research Foundation in Long Beach, said his group has been monitoring the Garbage Patch for 10 years.

"With the winds blowing in and the currents in the gyre going circular, it's the perfect environment for trapping," Eriksen said. "There's nothing we can do about it now, except do no more harm."

The patch has been growing, along with ocean debris worldwide, tenfold every decade since the 1950s, said Chris Parry, public education program manager with the California Coastal Commission in San Francisco.

Ocean current patterns may keep the flotsam stashed in a part of the world few will ever see, but the majority of its content is generated onshore, according to a report from Greenpeace last year titled "Plastic Debris in the World's Oceans."

The report found that 80 percent of the oceans' litter originated on land. While ships drop the occasional load of shoes or hockey gloves into the waters (sometimes on purpose and illegally), the vast majority of sea garbage begins its journey as onshore trash.

That's what makes a potentially toxic swamp like the Garbage Patch entirely preventable, Parry said.

"At this point, cleaning it up isn't an option," Parry said. "It's just going to get bigger as our reliance on plastics continues. ... The long-term solution is to stop producing as much plastic products at home and change our consumption habits."

Parry said using canvas bags to cart groceries instead of using plastic bags is a good first step; buying foods that aren't wrapped in plastics is another.

After the San Francisco Board of Supervisors banned the use of plastic grocery bags earlier this year with the problem of ocean debris in mind, a slew of state bills were written to limit bag production, said Sarah Christie, a legislative director with the California Coastal Commission.
But many of the bills failed after meeting strong opposition from plastics industry lobbyists, she said.

Meanwhile, the stew in the ocean continues to grow.

The Great Pacific Garbage Patch is particularly dangerous for birds and marine life, said Warner Chabot, vice president of the Ocean Conservancy, an environmental group.

Sea turtles mistake clear plastic bags for jellyfish. Birds swoop down and swallow indigestible shards of plastic. The petroleum-based plastics take decades to break down, and as long as they float on the ocean's surface, they can appear as feeding grounds.

"These animals die because the plastic eventually fills their stomachs,"
Chabot said. "It doesn't pass, and they literally starve to death."
The Greenpeace report found that at least 267 marine species had suffered from some kind of ingestion or entanglement with marine debris.
Chabot said if environmentalists wanted to remove the ocean dump site, it would take a massive international effort that would cost billions.
But that is unlikely, he added, because no one country is likely to step forward and claim the issue as its own responsibility.

Instead, cleaning up the Great Pacific Garbage Patch is left to the landlubbers.

"What we can do is ban plastic fast food packaging," Chabot said, "or require the substitution of biodegradable materials, increase recycling programs and improve enforcement of litter laws.

"Otherwise, this ever-growing floating continent of trash will be with us for the foreseeable future."

[markd]

Thanks, b, good post.

[bioya1]

Thanks, b, good post.

I think my wife is cooking up a trip to Hawaii this winter. I may ask if the pilot can go over it for us.

[jb1500]

Is this a controlled dump or does everything just sort of end up there?

[bioya1]

Is this a controlled dump or does everything just sort of end up there?

Everything just kind of ends up there.

[sironin]

I call dibs.

Once the world's oil is depleted, plastic recycling becomes mandatory and salvagers get big bucks for recovering it from dumps, that is... :)

[lesterge]

Amazing stuff. Excellent post.

[Camp]

It can be recycled.

[doghouse]

Can we see it on Goggle Earth?

[catchrye]

how big is it exactly?

[Camp]

Be hard to miss if it were the size they say. I saw this years ago and wondered when a large recycling skimmer would be economically viable and developed.

Might be soon, but an industrious 3rd world nation likely will be there first.

[catchrye]

Be hard to miss if it were the size they say. I saw this years ago and wondered when a large recycling skimmer would be economically viable and developed.

Might be soon, but an industrious 3rd world nation likely will be there first.

China would be my bet. I have read that they already import a bunch of our garbage, recycle it and sell it back to use in the form of slighly more attractive garbage.

[bioya1]

how big is it exactly?

This article:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=great-pacific-garbage-patch.htm&url=http://www.latimes.com/news/local/oceans/la-me-ocean2aug02,0,3130914.story

claims it is about twice the size of Texas.

I read somewhere else that is up to 30 meters thick in some places.

[catchrye]

This article:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=great-pacific-garbage-patch.htm&url=http://www.latimes.com/news/local/oceans/la-me-ocean2aug02,0,3130914.story

claims it is about twice the size of Texas.

I read somewhere else that is up to 30 meters thick in some places.

That is a lot material being wasted. This seems to clearly be a case where enviornmental and economic interests are common.

[247]

Wow, interesting.

There's some serious, bigtime mismanagement of waste disposal going on. Thanks for posting the story.

[bioya1]

That is a lot material being wasted. This seems to clearly be a case where enviornmental and economic interests are common.

I keep coming back to that too but the doggone thing apparently keeps growing anyway.

[MrShotShot]

Does anyone remember when plastic grocery bags were first introduced? I was probably 11 or 12 at the time, but I clearly remember it being viewed as a positive for the environmental and everyone being so happy that we would no longer have to cut down trees to cart our groceries around.

It does make you think just how much waste we generate going about our lives on a daily basis - I was thinking just this morning how many millions of tons of garbage are generated each day just by us getting our morning cup of joe.

I'm not an environmental whackjob by any stretch of the imagination, but as an avid outdoorsman, I think it's incumbent upon everyone to do whatever they can to minimize these types of things.

[sironin]

This article:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=great-pacific-garbage-patch.htm&url=http://www.latimes.com/news/local/oceans/la-me-ocean2aug02,0,3130914.story

claims it is about twice the size of Texas.

I read somewhere else that is up to 30 meters thick in some places.

30 meters thick?! You could build a house on that!

[catchrye]

Does anyone remember when plastic grocery bags were first introduced? I was probably 11 or 12 at the time, but I clearly remember it being viewed as a positive for the environmental and everyone being so happy that we would no longer have to cut down trees to cart our groceries around.

It does make you think just how much waste we generate going about our lives on a daily basis - I was thinking just this morning how many millions of tons of garbage are generated each day just by us getting our morning cup of joe.

I'm not an environmental whackjob by any stretch of the imagination, but as an avid outdoorsman, I think it's incumbent upon everyone to do whatever they can to minimize these types of things.

maybe they don't have recycling centers in california.

[GibsonSG]

Let's glue it all together, and make a floating resort out of it. Recycle it on the spot, into something usable.

[bioya1]

30 meters thick?! You could build a house on that!

I was astounded at that too.

[Samm]

Can we see it on Goggle Earth?

Google doesn't show ocean surface in this area, but here is site with a graphic of the area:

http://www.theiff.org/reef/reef4.html

Maybe there is another free satellite service that shows this, but I could not find one. Twice the size of Texas should show up clearly.

[Iggy]

Oh, I thought this was another Harry Reid thread.

[rhet 2]

Oh, I thought this was another Harry Reid thread.

:)) RLMAO


Back in the 1980's, they announced the ability to create plastics made of cornstarch -- totally biodegradable.

Got trashed because it wouldn't feed the petroleum industry which kept the politicians in elect-able status.

Now, we pay the price.

Or, in this case, the fish pay it first, then we pay it ourselves.

[Steve Rogers]

maybe they don't have recycling centers in california.


In cali?? are you kidding:razz:

[foxgurrrl]

Do you people not understand?? Plastic does exactly what it was designed to do - that is keeps whatever is inside from going bad as quickly as it would in something else. Biodegradable plastic? Fine for some uses, but for the most part, plastic is used/made to stand the test of time, and the last thing you want is for it to "degrade". Not to mention the possibility of leeching.

That's also what trans fat was meant to do, does that mean it's good for you?

[The Girl from Ipanema]

"At this point, cleaning it up isn't an option," Parry said.

That just doesn't make any sense to me. It sure seems like we could at least make an effort.

[foxgurrrl]

Hmmmm, let's see - trans fat was something used in food to help preserve it for a little while, and in moderation was found to be no problem.....Plastic is a container (typically) used to store something for a very extended period of time - also you don't actually ingest it while eating your food. So your comparison is actually pointless and worthless.

Not really. They're both used to make things last longer.

[bioya1]

Do you people not understand?? Plastic does exactly what it was designed to do - that is keeps whatever is inside from going bad as quickly as it would in something else. Biodegradable plastic? Fine for some uses, but for the most part, plastic is used/made to stand the test of time, and the last thing you want is for it to "degrade". Not to mention the possibility of leeching.

I understand how plastic works. I don't understand how it is desirable to just leave it floating around in the ocean forever.

[HSMaxim]

In reality, the rogue bag would float into a sewer, follow the storm drain to the ocean, then make its way to the so-called Great Pacific Garbage Patch - a heap of debris floating in the Pacific that's twice the size of Texas, according to marine biologists.
In reality?

Really?

So no chance that someone might pick it up and dispose of it properly?

And hey, why is Hollywood so inconsiderate of our enviroment.

[waynevan]

It can be recycled.

It could be made into diesal fuel with a floating thermal depolymerization facility, quite easily and profitably I would say. 3-1/2 million tons ain't nothin' to sneeze at, and being 80 percent plastic would produce probably two million tons of oil, or eight supertanker loads of ALREADY REFINED and ready to use fuel.

[waynevan]

Thermal depolymerization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization)

[Ardathair]

Might be soon, but an industrious 3rd world nation likely will be there first.

With that size it could become a third world nation.

[Gabby]

I have not read through all of the posts on this thread... but...

Is there a picture of this trash island? It seems very hard to believe.

[waynevan]

I have not read through all of the posts on this thread... but...

Is there a picture of this trash island? It seems very hard to believe.


How 'bout another article? http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1011/p02s01-usgn.html

[jimjames418]

With that size it could become a third world nation.:shhh: Harry Reid will want to send it some foreign aid from the U.S. taypayers if he finds out. :twisted:

[Gabby]

How 'bout another article? http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1011/p02s01-usgn.html


From some things I was reading it sounded like t his was like an island the size of texas. That's why I wanted to see a photo of the island. Apparently that is not what it is... but instead a section of the ocean that is about the size of texas in which trash collects.... a photo would not show a solid collection of trash... right?

[AmericanSpirit]

:shhh: Harry Reid will want to send it some foreign aid from the U.S. taypayers if he finds out. :twisted:

I claim that land in the name of...ME. Where is my money?

[Gabby]

I claim that land in the name of...ME. Where is my money?

From what I can tell... it is not 'land' it is not even an 'island' of trash' but instead a lot of things floating in water... so you're out of luck.

This acutally sounds great... the oceans push the junk to one place... now we can set up ships that have the sole purpose of collecting the trash, compressing it.... and we can find some place to dispose of it.....

We produce too much trash, lets face it.

[AmericanSpirit]

From what I can tell... it is not 'land' it is not even an 'island' of trash' but instead a lot of things floating in water... so you're out of luck.

This acutally sounds great... the oceans push the junk to one place... now we can set up ships that have the sole purpose of collecting the trash, compressing it.... and we can find some place to dispose of it.....

We produce too much trash, lets face it.

Well your right...now we know the trash goes to one location maybe there might be a way to clean it up somehow. Leaving it like that seems wrong.

BTW...how dare you call my land trash! I suppose the House got together and voted on that didn't they? I will be removing my ambassador from DC now thank you.

[Lee Kington]

Why is it that no one has a picture of this mass of floating trash?

[Gabby]

Well your right...now we know the trash goes to one location maybe there might be a way to clean it up somehow. Leaving it like that seems wrong.

BTW...how dare you call my land trash! I suppose the House got together and voted on that didn't they? I will be removing my ambassador from DC now thank you.

Good move there... get all indignant. That should net your many more milllions (or billions) in foreign aide. If you declare war on the USA you'll do even better ... :))

[Gabby]

Why is it that no one has a picture of this mass of floating trash?

From what I can tell, because its not a floating mass. It a few tons of trash floating in an area about the size of Texas.

This is what I have gathered. While there is an issue of a lot of trash over the last few decades... it's not what Greenpeace is claiming it to be. Are we surprised? I'll eat my words if anyone can produce a picture of the 'island of trash'.

[AmericanSpirit]

From what I can tell, because its not a floating mass. It a few tons of trash floating in an area about the size of Texas.

This is what I have gathered. While there is an issue of a lot of trash over the last few decades... it's not what Greenpeace is claiming it to be. Are we surprised? I'll eat my words if anyone can produce a picture of the 'island of trash'.

A picture would be nice...I don't think we are getting one anytime soon though.

[Ardathair]

From what I can tell... it is not 'land' it is not even an 'island' of trash' but instead a lot of things floating in water... so you're out of luck.

This acutally sounds great... the oceans push the junk to one place... now we can set up ships that have the sole purpose of collecting the trash, compressing it.... and we can find some place to dispose of it.....

We produce too much trash, lets face it.

Declare war on Monday, invade on Wendsday, surrender on Thursday, and the foreign aid will be rolling in by the end of the week. :))

Didn't someone already make that movie? :whistle:

[Lee Kington]

From what I can tell, because its not a floating mass. It a few tons of trash floating in an area about the size of Texas.

This is what I have gathered. While there is an issue of a lot of trash over the last few decades... it's not what Greenpeace is claiming it to be. Are we surprised? I'll eat my words if anyone can produce a picture of the 'island of trash'.

If there was anything that conveyed a visual impact Greenpeace and others would be plastering images all over the place.

[Wookinstien]

Someone call me when it becomes a solid mass. I want to build a house there...

[waynevan]

It’s also considered the largest garbage dump in the world. I’ve tried looking around online, can you see the garbage patch from satellite images?
No. See, most of this garbage is salt-shaker stuff, the breakdown of plastic products. When we trawl a net, we get a kaleidoscope of different colored little plastic particles, mostly whites and blues. We think the reds are taken by birds and fish because they look like shrimp. And inside the garbage patch we’ve found over six times as much plastic as plankton. While outside it’s over three times as much plastic as plankton. So if you’re a fish trying to choose whether something is food or not, you can easily be confused. Gelatinous plankton feeders are heavily impacted by this. Then they’re eaten by fish, birds and turtles and so it accumulates up the food chain. And [the plastic particles are not] just indigestible, they are also a sponge for toxics, so it’s like poison pills being ingested.


http://www.satyamag.com/apr07/moore.html

[sironin]

I claim that land in the name of...ME. Where is my money?

Way too late, I already called dibs back on post 7.

[AmericanSpirit]

Way too late, I already called dibs back on post 7.

Civil War! :twisted:

[sironin]

Civil War! :twisted:

Garbage fight! lol :))

[RevolutionIsTheOnlyWay]

What is up with the waste disposal systems? Do we really let pipes directly into the ocean with no way of getting the debris out? We are destroying the earth one day at a time.

[JudasGoat]

I thought this was going to be about DEtroit or New Jersey-whichever one has the bags all over the city making the whole place look like a garbage dump.

[sironin]

New Jersey isn't a garbage dump? :doh:

[waynevan]

New Jersey isn't a garbage dump? :doh:

Okay, what did you do to New Jersey? :whistle:

[dittoheadAZ]

When I saw the title, I thought he was referring to the Algore Peace Prize! :D

[bioya1]

My wife now uses canvas for a lot of our shopping. I will definitely be getting a few bags to keep in my car as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/02/world/europe/02bags.html?em&ex=1202274000&en=4d29d1ad4315049e&ei=5087%0A


There is something missing from this otherwise typical bustling cityscape. There are taxis and buses. There are hip bars and pollution. Every other person is talking into a cellphone. But there are no plastic shopping bags, the ubiquitous symbol of urban life.

In 2002, Ireland (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/ireland/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) passed a tax on plastic bags; customers who want them must now pay 33 cents per bag at the register. There was an advertising awareness campaign. And then something happened that was bigger than the sum of these parts.

Within weeks, plastic bag use dropped 94 percent. Within a year, nearly everyone had bought reusable cloth bags, keeping them in offices and in the backs of cars. Plastic bags were not outlawed, but carrying them became socially unacceptable — on a par with wearing a fur coat or not cleaning up after one’s dog.

...

In a few countries, including Germany, grocers have long charged a nominal fee for plastic bags, and cloth carrier bags are common. But they are the exception.

In the past few months, several countries have announced plans to eliminate the bags. Bangladesh and some African nations have sought to ban them because they clog fragile sewerage systems, creating a health hazard. Starting this summer, China will prohibit sellers from handing out free plastic shopping bags, but the price they should charge is not specified, and there is little capacity for enforcement. Australia says it wants to end free plastic bags by the end of the year, but has not decided how.

Efforts to tax plastic bags have failed in many places because of heated opposition from manufacturers as well as from merchants, who have said a tax would be bad for business. In Britain, Los Angeles and San Francisco, proposed taxes failed to gain political approval, though San Francisco passed a ban last year. Some countries, like Italy, have settled for voluntary participation.

But there were no plastic bag makers in Ireland (most bags here came from China), and a forceful environment minister gave reluctant shopkeepers little wiggle room, making it illegal for them to pay for the bags on behalf of customers. The government collects the tax, which finances environmental enforcement and cleanup programs.

Furthermore, the environment minister told shopkeepers that if they changed from plastic to paper, he would tax those bags, too.
While paper bags, which degrade, are in some ways better for the environment, studies suggest that more greenhouse gases are released in their manufacture and transportation than in the production of plastic bags.

Today, Ireland’s retailers are great promoters of taxing the bags. “I spent many months arguing against this tax with the minister; I thought customers wouldn’t accept it,” said Senator Feargal Quinn, founder of the Superquinn chain. “But I have become a big, big enthusiast.”

[Radioflyer]

Something pretty disgusting that I never knew about:Get a picture of it and post it here.

[waynevan]

In 2002, Ireland (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/ireland/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) passed a tax on plastic bags; customers who want them must now pay 33 cents per bag at the register. There was an advertising awareness campaign. And then something happened that was bigger than the sum of these parts.

That is ****ing preposterous. Politicians that come up with krap like that should be jailed.

[Sceptic]

That is ****ing preposterous. Politicians that come up with krap like that should be jailed.

Why?

Are you incapable of taking a rucksack or other bag with you to the shop? Why shouldn't you be jailed for wrecking the joint?

It's not just Ireland - most civilised countries do the same. Try and get a plastic bag in France and you have to pay for it. But then, if you go to the shop and need a bag, should you not pay for that service? Isn't that free market economics?

You want it, you pay for it. Why should I pay for your bag when I don't use one?

[Kazsirk]

building a plastic replacement that breaks down in a year or two like paper in natural conditions yet remains toxic free as it breaks down and holds liquid on a shelf for a full decade without breaking down.

and is cheap as dirt...

looks like we are stuck with plastics people we just need to recycle.

kaz

[waynevan]

Why?

Are you incapable of taking a rucksack or other bag with you to the shop? Why shouldn't you be jailed for wrecking the joint?

It's not just Ireland - most civilised countries do the same. Try and get a plastic bag in France and you have to pay for it. But then, if you go to the shop and need a bag, should you not pay for that service? Isn't that free market economics?

You want it, you pay for it. Why should I pay for your bag when I don't use one?

The value of a plastic bag is likely less than one cent, THAT'S why.

[gdoane]

Why?

Are you incapable of taking a rucksack or other bag with you to the shop? Why shouldn't you be jailed for wrecking the joint?

Most shops in the real world don't like customers carrying bags through the store because shoplifters will use them to rob them blind.

People can't be trusted to go prancing about through stores with bags in their hands, are you crazy? Requiring bags to be carried to shop is a thieving nightmare! You may as well just take the cash registers out of the stores because nobody would actually pay for the stuff they already put in their sack when they could just stroll out the door with it.


It's not just Ireland - most civilised countries do the same. Try and get a plastic bag in France and you have to pay for it.

Did you just call FRANCE a civilized country? That hellhole wouldn't even BE a country if the USA didn't save them from the Germans... TWICE. If those idiots were capable of taking care of their own place they wouldn't have been the first stop for two world wars.

But then, if you go to the shop and need a bag, should you not pay for that service? Isn't that free market economics?

This isn't about paying the merchant for the bag, it's about paying the despicable government for a service that they have nothing to do with providing. It's thievery.

The government doesn't make the bag.
The government doesn't provide the bag.
The government doesn't fill the bag.
The government doesn't pay for the bag.

So why should the government tax the bag at an unholy 3,000% of what the bag costs? By what right does the government lay claim to a tax on a service on a level of magnitudes above and beyond what the service costs?

Europeans are far more forgiving of tyranny than Americans are. That hardly makes Europeans more civilized.

[Vaard]

they should tow it to japan and double their land space..........

[AmericanSpirit]

Why?

Are you incapable of taking a rucksack or other bag with you to the shop? Why shouldn't you be jailed for wrecking the joint?

It's not just Ireland - most civilised countries do the same. Try and get a plastic bag in France and you have to pay for it. But then, if you go to the shop and need a bag, should you not pay for that service? Isn't that free market economics?

You want it, you pay for it. Why should I pay for your bag when I don't use one?

HAHAHA the government taxing plastic bags "free market". :))

That was a good joke dude.