When did football become a game played and coached by wusses?

[konssurvative1]

Two plays yesteday...Belichik being afraid to punt the ball and let his defense win the game for him... Really Belichik doesn't punt the ball...You give them 70 yards to go and then you bring the pressure on Manning like you have almost the entire game....But more importantly...What the H E L L is Maurice Jones Drew not scoring...Football is a game about touch downs...scoring them preventing them...Not taking a knee so you can run the clock down to three seconds and then kick a field goal...Score the touchdown and kick off. Don't let the other team score...Yes I am angry that MJD didn't score a second touch down...I had him in my fantasy league...would not have changed the outcome...I still won...My point is this SCORE THE TOUCHDOWN...GIVE THE BALL TO YOUR DEFENSE...PLAY THE DAMN GAME!!!

[scmarcos]

The Pats move was just stupid.

Why should MJD put more stress on his defense though? Football isn't only about touchdowns, thats why they were going to let MJD score, they tried to give up a touchdown, which goes exactly counter to your argument.

[chris13]

The Pats move was stupid only in retrospect. If you think about it, the Colts had just scored two TDs on two previous possessions, going about 80 yards each time in about 2 minutes per drive. If they had made the first down, the press would be lauding him as a genius.

As for MJD, he was doing exactly what coach Del Rio told him to do. Would I have done it? No way. But that says that Jack has no confidence in his defense.

[scmarcos]

The Pats move was stupid only in retrospect. If you think about it, the Colts had just scored two TDs on two previous possessions, going about 80 yards each time in about 2 minutes per drive. If they had made the first down, the press would be lauding him as a genius.

As for MJD, he was doing exactly what coach Del Rio told him to do. Would I have done it? No way. But that says that Jack has no confidence in his defense.

Or his special teams, still have to kick it off and that can be very unpredictable. Apparently the Jets had faith in being able to score against the Jacksonville Defense too because they were going to let the Jaguars score!

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Two plays yesteday...Belichik being afraid to punt the ball and let his defense win the game for him... Really Belichik doesn't punt the ball...You give them 70 yards to go and then you bring the pressure on Manning like you have almost the entire game....But more importantly...What the H E L L is Maurice Jones Drew not scoring...Football is a game about touch downs...scoring them preventing them...Not taking a knee so you can run the clock down to three seconds and then kick a field goal...Score the touchdown and kick off. Don't let the other team score...Yes I am angry that MJD didn't score a second touch down...I had him in my fantasy league...would not have changed the outcome...I still won...My point is this SCORE THE TOUCHDOWN...GIVE THE BALL TO YOUR DEFENSE...PLAY THE DAMN GAME!!!
Do you even watch football?

1. MJD not scoring is reminiscent of Brian Westbrook flopping down at the 1 yard line a couple years ago against Dallas. He COULD have scored easily, but he recognized the situation (2-minute warning coming up, Dallas out of timeouts), and knew that if Philly just sat on the ball the game was over.

2. Belichick was a WUSS move? His defense had given up two TD drives that took less than 2:30 in the 4th quarter. He obviously trusted his offense a lot more than his defense. I would to, having seen his defense.

[K Lags]

I have MJD as well in one of my leagues, but to call him a wuss for his highly football-smart play is just silly.

Belichick, although an argued stupid call, was the opposite of wussy.

[Buffalo]

I love opposite bizzaro thread.

[JediMindTrick]

I think Bill made the right call. Ask Miami about their game this season when Manning needed to go over 80 yards at the end of the game. Manning at the end of the game needing a score is money in the bank as he's proven time and time and time again.

Plus stats were on Bill's side. I'm plagarizing this from an article on SI.com.

Stat wise across the NFL teams trying to convert 4th and 2 succeed 60% of the time. Also stat wise teams trying to score a TD from the 30 yard line succeed only 53% of the time. Statistically this means (.60 *1) + (.40*(1-.53)) = 78.8% chance of winning.

Now lets say they punted and Indy got the ball on their own 34 yard line (not sure why they picked 34 but its their article). Teams succeed 30% of the time in the last two minutes when needed a TD. So punting gives the Pats a 70% chance of winning except we know that Manning being Manning is probably better than 30%.

78.8% or 70% chance of winning. Obviously the first choice is the better.

[Buffalo]

I think Bill made the right call. Ask Miami about their game this season when Manning needed to go over 80 yards at the end of the game. Manning at the end of the game needing a score is money in the bank as he's proven time and time and time again.

Plus stats were on Bill's side. I'm plagarizing this from an article on SI.com.

Stat wise across the NFL teams trying to convert 4th and 2 succeed 60% of the time. Also stat wise teams trying to score a TD from the 30 yard line succeed only 53% of the time. Statistically this means (.60 *1) + (.40*(1-.53)) = 78.8% chance of winning.

Now lets say they punted and Indy got the ball on their own 34 yard line (not sure why they picked 34 but its their article). Teams succeed 30% of the time in the last two minutes when needed a TD. So punting gives the Pats a 70% chance of winning except we know that Manning being Manning is probably better than 30%.

78.8% or 70% chance of winning. Obviously the first choice is the better.
Read that too and it's very interesting. Either way, I love how the best coach in the NFL is now a moron who doesn't know what he's doing. I'll err on the side of trusting Belichek understands completely what he's doing.

[JimGP20]

Read that too and it's very interesting. Either way, I love how the best coach in the NFL is now a moron who doesn't know what he's doing. I'll err on the side of trusting Belichek understands completely what he's doing.


I never said Belichick was a moron and doesn't know what he's doing.... I said he made a stupid call on that one play.

[Beccaria]

Again-that call would have made no difference. The way Indy was heating up in the 4th quarter, they would probably have driven back down the field anyway. The Pat defense was getting gassed out.

[JimGP20]

Again-that call would have made no difference. The way Indy was heating up in the 4th quarter, they would probably have driven back down the field anyway. The Pat defense was getting gassed out.

No mater the ultimate outcome, I still would have punted. More things can go wrong for an offense if they have 80 yards to go rather than just 30 yards. Manning had already been intercepted twice in the game on passes that looked like wounded ducks. I would have punted.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

No mater the ultimate outcome, I still would have punted. More things can go wrong for an offense if they have 80 yards to go rather than just 30 yards. Manning had already been intercepted twice in the game on passes that looked like wounded ducks. I would have punted.
According to the OP, you're the most courageous person here.

[chris13]

1. MJD not scoring is reminiscent of Brian Westbrook flopping down at the 1 yard line a couple years ago against Dallas. He COULD have scored easily, but he recognized the situation (2-minute warning coming up, Dallas out of timeouts), and knew that if Philly just sat on the ball the game was over.

I have to respond to this one. It was NOT the same thing. The Eagles had the lead at the time and Westbrook did that on his own. The Jags were trailing and Jones-Drew was told by the head coach not to score.

[JediMindTrick]

I have to respond to this one. It was NOT the same thing. The Eagles had the lead at the time and Westbrook did that on his own. The Jags were trailing and Jones-Drew was told by the head coach not to score.

I agree. MJD should have scored. Its considered a good call now because the Jags made the field goal but what if the kicker shanks it or the kick gets blocked?

Westbrook's play on the other hand occurred with the Eagles not needing to score.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

I have to respond to this one. It was NOT the same thing. The Eagles had the lead at the time and Westbrook did that on his own. The Jags were trailing and Jones-Drew was told by the head coach not to score.
I said "reminiscent", not the same thing.

Yes...the possibility of a shank or a block exists. But the kick in question was from 21 yards...basically an extra point. There have been 683 extra points attempted this season and 672 have been successful. That's 98.3%.

So does the possibility of the Jets driving down the field and scoring, as they'd done on their last two drives.

I'm taking the 98.3% chance in that situation.

[konssurvative1]

The Pats move was stupid only in retrospect. If you think about it, the Colts had just scored two TDs on two previous possessions, going about 80 yards each time in about 2 minutes per drive. If they had made the first down, the press would be lauding him as a genius.

As for MJD, he was doing exactly what coach Del Rio told him to do. Would I have done it? No way. But that says that Jack has no confidence in his defense.

Believe me, I am not at all criticising MJD...he is my No. 1 RB in fantasy football. It didn't hurt me that he didn't score...I won anyway. But it is the philosophy behind these two coaching decisions...I don't trust my defenses...if that is the case then isn't that an indictment against each coach that his team wasn't prepared to play. Maybe I can see it in the Pats place, because there were a lot of guys on that Defense who were playing for injured starters...They were not getting enough breaks during the course of the 4th quarter. Colts were going too much no huddle. But still especially if you are known as a defensive coach, and you already picked manning in the game...you have to trust the sure 80 yards away rather than gambling on your own 28. I am not a football coach...but played and love the game...I Said Punt right away!

[konssurvative1]

Do you even watch football?

1. MJD not scoring is reminiscent of Brian Westbrook flopping down at the 1 yard line a couple years ago against Dallas. He COULD have scored easily, but he recognized the situation (2-minute warning coming up, Dallas out of timeouts), and knew that if Philly just sat on the ball the game was over.

2. Belichick was a WUSS move? His defense had given up two TD drives that took less than 2:30 in the 4th quarter. He obviously trusted his offense a lot more than his defense. I would to, having seen his defense.

Yes I watch football...played too...Westbrook was up two touchdowns when he did it...MJD was down a one point...what if they muff the snap...YOU TAKE THE SURE POINTS WHEN YOU GET THE CHANCE...Score the touchdown and make the Jets who don't scare too many people offensively these days, score a touchdown to win the game. If they muff the snap or it gets blocked then what. YOU LOSE THE GAME...I was always taught. Take the score when it presents itself. They were losing at the time.

[konssurvative1]

I have MJD as well in one of my leagues, but to call him a wuss for his highly football-smart play is just silly.

Belichick, although an argued stupid call, was the opposite of wussy.

I was speaking of the decisions...MJD is a stud and always will be...he followed the coaches decision...Coach's decision was a wuss call...

Belichick lives and dies by his defense...always did. He is a defensive guru...that is why he always has strong offensive coordinators. He showed no faith in his defense at all. But I understand that decision more than the MJD decision...I didn't realize that the pats had so many guys on defense out when I wrote this post.

[konssurvative1]

No mater the ultimate outcome, I still would have punted. More things can go wrong for an offense if they have 80 yards to go rather than just 30 yards. Manning had already been intercepted twice in the game on passes that looked like wounded ducks. I would have punted.

Exactly...manning wasn't exactly throwing good balls late in the game...the ball kept slipping out of his hand or something...he kept throwing up ducks...the announcers kept calling them ducks...I just think in that situation you are winning, let your defense protect that lead...but in hind site as I already said...I didn't realize the Pats Defense had so many guys injured and I was watching the game.

[Beccaria]

Exactly...manning wasn't exactly throwing good balls late in the game...the ball kept slipping out of his hand or something...he kept throwing up ducks...the announcers kept calling them ducks...I just think in that situation you are winning, let your defense protect that lead...but in hind site as I already said...I didn't realize the Pats Defense had so many guys injured and I was watching the game.

Considering he was able to get the team caught up in the 4th quarter like he did, I'd still say he was a threat.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Yes I watch football...played too...

Just checking...:razz:

Westbrook was up two touchdowns when he did it...MJD was down a one point...what if they muff the snap...YOU TAKE THE SURE POINTS WHEN YOU GET THE CHANCE...Score the touchdown and make the Jets who don't scare too many people offensively these days, score a touchdown to win the game. If they muff the snap or it gets blocked then what. YOU LOSE THE GAME...I was always taught. Take the score when it presents itself. They were losing at the time.

They were down two. MJD dropped to the ground at the 1. A couple of kneel-downs later and the ball was at the three (The Jets had no timeouts so they couldn't stop the clock) leading to a 21-yard FG attempt. As pointed out above, a 21-yard field goal is basically an extra point. And XP's have a 98.3% likelihood of splitting the uprights.

Contrast that with MJD scoring the TD with 2 minutes left (or 1:30, I don't know the exact situation)...you're giving the Jets another shot to score, which they've already done on both of their drives in the 4th quarter.

[konssurvative1]

Just checking...:razz:



They were down two. MJD dropped to the ground at the 1. A couple of kneel-downs later and the ball was at the three (The Jets had no timeouts so they couldn't stop the clock) leading to a 21-yard FG attempt. As pointed out above, a 21-yard field goal is basically an extra point. And XP's have a 98.3% likelihood of splitting the uprights.

Contrast that with MJD scoring the TD with 2 minutes left (or 1:30, I don't know the exact situation)...you're giving the Jets another shot to score, which they've already done on both of their drives in the 4th quarter.

Yeah but would they have scored in a minute thirty? I doubt it...Sanchez hasn't been lighting up the air lately, not since the First Miami game to be exact. I know that at least one of the last two drives was full of running plays with Thomas Jones and Shone Green. Hardly something that strikes fear for me with 1:30 left.

[K Lags]

Yeah but would they have scored in a minute thirty? I doubt it...Sanchez hasn't been lighting up the air lately, not since the First Miami game to be exact. I know that at least one of the last two drives was full of running plays with Thomas Jones and Shone Green. Hardly something that strikes fear for me with 1:30 left.

But why even give him a chance? Regardless of Sanchez's ability to light up the air, if you have a chance to seal a win by letting the clock run down and take a gimme FG, why not?

Teams do something to this effect in overtime whenever they can, why not keep going to try to score a TD in overtime? Why settle for a 30 yard FG on first down? Because it's in your favor to do so.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Yeah but would they have scored in a minute thirty? I doubt it...Sanchez hasn't been lighting up the air lately, not since the First Miami game to be exact. I know that at least one of the last two drives was full of running plays with Thomas Jones and Shone Green. Hardly something that strikes fear for me with 1:30 left.
I hear what you're saying, but I'm taking the 98% chance I hit the field goal over the 70% chance I can stop Sanchez can moving his team down the field.

[Tulsa]

I hear what you're saying, but I'm taking the 98% chance I hit the field goal over the 70% chance I can stop Sanchez can moving his team down the field.

I suppose some feel it's best to give the opponent a chance when you have an opportunity to shut them down for the rest of the game? I like what MJD did it was a good call by his coaches. In baseball it would have been known as the intentional walk.

[JimGP20]

I hear what you're saying, but I'm taking the 98% chance I hit the field goal over the 70% chance I can stop Sanchez can moving his team down the field.


That darned dirty Sanchez. :lol: