Re: Paul-w

[Paul-w2]

With all due respect to the comments I made, I very well referenced my childhood/teenage years and what I grew up around. What I grew up around was pure ignorance and I made clear references to such ignorance. I also find that ignorance is well documented. I grew up in a Church of Christ and was around some of the most extremely blind people growing up who ignored the rest of the world around them.

I do apologize if I indeed offended anyone by my statement, but some of the statements in response to that thread were obvious blatant proof of the said statement.

I wasn't attacking a religion so much as proving an overall point which was being proven by those in the thread claiming to be Christians.

My intent was never to alienate anyone however and maybe my description was too broad, and for that I do apologize.

I honestly find it disheartening though how a majority of a group of people can claim to be generally 'good/noble' and yet feel that their goodness should only be bestowed upon those who share the same beliefs. If that's not ignorant, then I do now know what is. Christians tend to use the same stereo-types against muslim extremists in the way they act about protecting their religion/using their beliefs to their advantage. I'm just making a point.

Either way, as I said I apologize for my mistake in generalizing the group as a whole and not the extreme part/majority in their actions when it comes to voting/etc.

I hope you'll accept my apology and allow my continued patronage.

I know it's a bit long-winded of an apology and I'm just trying to explain the point of why I feel the way I do about things.

Thanks for your consideration.

[Lee Kington]

With all due respect to the comments I made, I very well referenced my childhood/teenage years and what I grew up around. What I grew up around was pure ignorance and I made clear references to such ignorance. I also find that ignorance is well documented. I grew up in a Church of Christ and was around some of the most extremely blind people growing up who ignored the rest of the world around them.

I do apologize if I indeed offended anyone by my statement, but some of the statements in response to that thread were obvious blatant proof of the said statement.

I wasn't attacking a religion so much as proving an overall point which was being proven by those in the thread claiming to be Christians.

My intent was never to alienate anyone however and maybe my description was too broad, and for that I do apologize.

I honestly find it disheartening though how a majority of a group of people can claim to be generally 'good/noble' and yet feel that their goodness should only be bestowed upon those who share the same beliefs. If that's not ignorant, then I do now know what is. Christians tend to use the same stereo-types against muslim extremists in the way they act about protecting their religion/using their beliefs to their advantage. I'm just making a point.

Either way, as I said I apologize for my mistake in generalizing the group as a whole and not the extreme part/majority in their actions when it comes to voting/etc.

I hope you'll accept my apology and allow my continued patronage.

I know it's a bit long-winded of an apology and I'm just trying to explain the point of why I feel the way I do about things.

Thanks for your consideration...........

........


Of course it took an open-mind and seeing the Christians for what they truly are; mind numb robots.

Our HOST is a Catholic and last I knew that makes him a Christian. That weighs in as Contempt of HOST.

You are born/raised/brain washed by your religious beliefs in thinking it's ok to discriminate against others. Personal attack because a member is a Christian.

You attack Christianity and judge Christians based upon YOUR views and opinion.... You are entitled to your opinion... or as you essentially stated about others... your own flavor of ignorance and bigotry. As you know... you are not always entitled to espouse them here.

You will not be on the boards for a while. I need to ponder on the time factor. As a Christian and as one who has 5 generations of officers of the Church ..... I will be doing a lot of reflection.

[ExDem]

"Christians tend to use the same stereo-types against muslim extremists in the way they act about protecting their religion/using their beliefs to their advantage. I'm just making a point."

WOW. I am sorry Lee if this is peanuts but saying Christians (not some, ALL) stereotype against others, is stereotyping, is it not???? And that is an apology?

(I will delete if you think it is peanuts.)

[chip]

Wow.

In an apology for making blanket statements attacking Christians he makes a blanket attack on Christians.

[Paul-w2]

..........

........




Our HOST is a Catholic and last I knew that makes him a Christian. That weighs in as Contempt of HOST.

I never directly attacked the host. That is being very broad because you disagree with what I say.


Personal attack because a member is a Christian.

You attack Christianity and judge Christians based upon YOUR views and opinion.... You are entitled to your opinion... or as you essentially stated about others... your own flavor of ignorance and bigotry. As you know... you are not always entitled to espouse them here.

You will not be on the boards for a while. I need to ponder on the time factor. As a Christian and as one who has 5 generations of officers of the Church ..... I will be doing a lot of reflection.

I don't attack Christianity itself. I merely speak of the ignorance of those who are blinded by it. Having faith and believing in something is completely different than being ignorant of the rest of the world around you. You can believe everything you want about what happened in history or what the God you believe in stands for. Many Christians make the assertion that they don't want homosexuality and gay rights 'shoved down their throat' yet in their attempt to stop what they don't like, they shove their beliefs 'down the throats' of everyone else.

As I said, I grew up a Christian and in a Church of Christ. These are good people, but many of them refuse to see the ever changing world around them. They poke fun at the Amish people for their ways, or poke fun at those who have no evolved and joined the modern world for their ways, but sit back and let the rest of the world pass them by and don't evolve with them.

I am not expressing my 'opinion' so much as I am expressing my experiences. My family is extremely religious actually. I'm one to to considered possibly the black sheep because I broke away from the herd and look at the world in a different light. I look at it with my eyes open while from what I've seen, they look at it with their eyes closed.

I'm not saying this is everyone and I never EVER mentioned Mr. Hannity in this regard, so daring to call it contempt of Host is way overboard.

I apologize because I know not everyone who's Christian believes in that way. As I said, many people have faith and many aren't blinded by their faith, but the fact of the matter is, many are. If there's one thing God teaches everyone, it's that you should always challenge what you are taught. You should always challenge what someone tells you. Just because the bible teaches you one way about something, doesn't make it the complete truth. God gave us an ability to think for ourselves for a reason. The idea that a book written by man claiming to be the word of God is indeed the complete word of God is playing a blind man's game where you're trusting in another human being to lead you on the right path and not necessarily God himself. Look at the world around you, look at the different beliefs. Look at how large the Muslim religion is, the Hindu, The Buddhist, etc...... Instead of everyone learning something from everyone else, we separate ourselves because we are too afraid to be wrong. We are too afraid to challenge the 'status quo.'

I do not seek to desecrate anyone or their beliefs, I seek for people to not have only an open mind, but an open heart as well.

I do apologize like I said for offending anyone, but I hope you can understand what I am saying.

[Fire Watch]

Given your history here Paul, and you KNOW what I'm talking about, I would have banned you permanently.

[Paul-w2]

Given your history here Paul, and you KNOW what I'm talking about, I would have banned you permanently.

I know what you're referring to and that one is a completely unfair judgement because it was something that had never been brought up before AND it was a topic about something I had heard others talking about.... that's no judgement on my character at all, nor should this be.

As I said, I never intended to offend anyone. I know not everyone is like that, but many people are and those people should be called out for hypocrisy.

I love the debate here, I truly do. I can be as passionate if not more on these issues than the next guy. I love fighting for true liberty. The fact of the matter is, while some want to claim liberty for themselves, they want to deny it to others. That in there lies the hypocrisy I speak of and something I will always challenge. The wording and the way I say it may come off abrasive/strong and for that around here I need to watch it, obviously :)

[HeyJude]

Paul, fwiw, I was also raised in the CofC. So I have a sense of what you are saying. However, my response was to simply change churches. There are millions and millions of good Christians in the world. And some very very liberal churches, some of which advocate things like gay rights. Do a little research, and you will find a church that suits you. You can't compare all of Christianity to the CofC. They are a small sect, and do not represent Christianity as a whole.

Having said all that, I am conservative, and I like the Catholic Church. But even within the Catholic Church, there are some who would agree with your POV. Just do some research, and you will find a church that suits you.

[Wookinstien]

In the words of Will Rogers.

If you find yourself in a hole.....stop digging....



:)

[Paul-w2]

Mr LEE,

With your gracious approval, I would very much like to post again here, especially with the most important issues that are facing this nation today, there is much debating to do.

I apologize for my generalization and in all truths in light of things that have happened in this last week I think it's careful that we don't generalize groups as such.

I hope you'll accept my full fledges apology and allow me the honor of continued patronage.

-Paul

[Lee Kington]

Mr LEE,

With your gracious approval, I would very much like to post again here, especially with the most important issues that are facing this nation today, there is much debating to do.

I apologize for my generalization and in all truths in light of things that have happened in this last week I think it's careful that we don't generalize groups as such.

I hope you'll accept my full fledges apology and allow me the honor of continued patronage.

-Paul

This is what I am thinking about doing.....

Letting you back on the boards provisionally. The provision being that you will not be allowed to participate in any thread or make any posts about churches, God, religions, or the faith of others.

[Paul-w2]

This is what I am thinking about doing.....

Letting you back on the boards provisionally. The provision being that you will not be allowed to participate in any thread or make any posts about churches, God, religions, or the faith of others.

Can this be a temporary provision?

I can adhere to this of course, though it is a fun subject to debate from time to time.

I will keep out of the religion forum for now :)

[Lee Kington]

Can this be a temporary provision? I can be but then it may not be.



I can adhere to this of course, though it is a fun subject to debate from time to time.

I will keep out of the religion forum for now :)

It is not just a matter of RF. You will not be allowed to discuss religion, God, etc. anywhere on the boards.

[Paul-w2]

I can be but then it may not be.





It is not just a matter of RF. You will not be allowed to discuss religion, God, etc. anywhere on the boards.

RF?

Discussing fairly in WP on related subjects when using related contexts without insulting a group in any way or individual on his/her religion should be fair game imo. - I can control the debate Lee and I do feel that my one blanket statement is a bit unfair to prevent further discussion on an entire subject. Religion/God get brought up on the broad spectrum of all debates from time to time. - Being civil is the whole issue here on things, not the religion part itself.

[Harmonious]

RF?

Discussing fairly in WP on related subjects when using related contexts without insulting a group in any way or individual on his/her religion should be fair game imo. - I can control the debate Lee and I do feel that my one blanket statement is a bit unfair to prevent further discussion on an entire subject. Religion/God get brought up on the broad spectrum of all debates from time to time. - Being civil is the whole issue here on things, not the religion part itself.

Dude... The proper answer is, "Thank you for your lenience. I will adhere to the conditions you've allowed for, and perhaps, given time, I hope I can earn the right to be permitted to discuss religious topics again."

I'm just giving you a heads-up, because it seems that Lee is only giving you a provisional unbanning. If you challenge the clemency, the entirety of the clemency may be revoked.

[WorldWatcher]

RF?

Discussing fairly in WP on related subjects when using related contexts without insulting a group in any way or individual on his/her religion should be fair game imo. - I can control the debate Lee and I do feel that my one blanket statement is a bit unfair to prevent further discussion on an entire subject. Religion/God get brought up on the broad spectrum of all debates from time to time. - Being civil is the whole issue here on things, not the religion part itself.


Lee is providing for the possibility of a provisional reinstatement with conditions instead of eating a ban. Harmonious is correct on how this should be viewed. When a trust is broken it takes time to earn back that trust, accept the offer graciously and move on or choose not to post here at all. The choice is really that simple and the offer is quite fair.

Bookmark this tread, give it 3 months, 6 months whatever it takes - and then come back and show that you have demonstrated the self restraint that Lee is looking for. At that time he can reassess is ruling.

As you said you have no control how a debate on the open boards progresses, however you do have control over what posts you respond to and the content of those posts. I'm assuming it will be a measure of your self control in choosing.


Best of luck.



>>>>

[Paul-w2]

Oh I agree to the conditions, I'm just asking the general 'what if' questions to go with it so things are clear! :)

[Lee Kington]

RF?

Discussing fairly in WP on related subjects when using related contexts without insulting a group in any way or individual on his/her religion should be fair game imo. - I can control the debate Lee and I do feel that my one blanket statement is a bit unfair to prevent further discussion on an entire subject. Religion/God get brought up on the broad spectrum of all debates from time to time. - Being civil is the whole issue here on things, not the religion part itself.

We have employed similar restrictions in the past. The conditions are non-negotiable and tweaking them (by you) is not and will not be acceptable.

[Paul-w2]

Understood.