Why is LEFT the new MODERATE?

[Smacktalker]

Is it just me or do others here think the Big Media is trying to redefine moderate.

My son's schoolbooks have redefined the word TOLERANCE too. It used to say "Accepting another person, regardless of their beliefs or culture." Now the books define it as "Accepting another person's beliefs and culture as 'equal' to our own."

I guess if the Big Media keeps redefining the Middle, the idiots in Washington will keep moving Left in order to stay in the "Middle". It's like leading sheep off a cliff.

I like the analogy I heard on FNC today. If a politician sees his constituents parading down the street he says, "Hey I better get out there and 'LEAD' them."

Scoffandgagguh was another disaster like Arlen Sphincter (Benedict Arlen).

Proves to me Republicans are neither "Conservative" nor "Principled" when it comes to getting elected. I want priciples first!!!


If Republicans want to win they better start beating the drums about FAIR AND REGULATED ELECTIONS instead of fraudulent ACORN politics!!! This should be PRIORITY #1. This is the lifeblood of DEMOCRACY.

Instead they nominate someone like Scarfangagger who is IN BED WITH ACORN!

There are other issues like getting our manufacturing base BACK in the USA and out of China. They can be tactful, but being in bed with Walmart and China will not get them ELECTED!

[Physics Hunter]

U Da Man.

Card Check is "Moderate"

To Hell with Flying: Pigs are sporting a "Faster Than Light" drive!

[The Bos'un]

Big media, DNC, Obama, the demorats in congress, all are trying to re write history in their image.... :))

[tislaw]

Just another attempt to shift the goal posts......

[Smacktalker]

I've heard all sorts of folks dance around this for whatever reason, but this is EXACTLY how the LEFTISTS are trying to paint CONSERVATISM as "RADICAL". I'm screaming at the top of my lungs and no one is putting them in their place about this whole issue! The BS ends NOW!

[EnchantedFrog]

If someone sets up a pig farm in your neighborhood, at first the smell is bad.
Given enough time, the smell begins to seem normal.

[IndyBec]

I voted for Bush and don't regret it. That said, was not the right the "new moderate" for his 8 years?

[Czhorat]

I try to avoid responding to posts filled with schoolyard insults, but you should know that societal norms to evolve over time. Spending too much time in the right-wing echo chamber can skew your idea of where the middle is, where the left is, and where the right is.

On what specific issues do you disagree with "big media" on the definition of "moderate"?

[opsyscw]

U Da Man.

Card Check is "Moderate"

To Hell with Flying: Pigs are sporting a "Faster Than Light" drive!
And lipstick cannot be made fast enough to be put on all the pigs.

[waynevan]

Rudy Guiliani is a moderate. The people they call moderates today are liberals or progressive republicans or something.

[RedStatePaPa]

Is it just me or do others here think the Big Media is trying to redefine moderate.

My son's schoolbooks have redefined the word TOLERANCE too. It used to say "Accepting another person, regardless of their beliefs or culture." Now the books define it as "Accepting another person's beliefs and culture as 'equal' to our own."

I guess if the Big Media keeps redefining the Middle, the idiots in Washington will keep moving Left in order to stay in the "Middle". It's like leading sheep off a cliff.

I like the analogy I heard on FNC today. If a politician sees his constituents parading down the street he says, "Hey I better get out there and 'LEAD' them."

Scoffandgagguh was another disaster like Arlen Sphincter (Benedict Arlen).

Proves to me Republicans are neither "Conservative" nor "Principled" when it comes to getting elected. I want priciples first!!!


If Republicans want to win they better start beating the drums about FAIR AND REGULATED ELECTIONS instead of fraudulent ACORN politics!!! This should be PRIORITY #1. This is the lifeblood of DEMOCRACY.

Instead they nominate someone like Scarfangagger who is IN BED WITH ACORN!

There are other issues like getting our manufacturing base BACK in the USA and out of China. They can be tactful, but being in bed with Walmart and China will not get them ELECTED!

Just like anyone to the right of stalin is either a right-wing religous extremist or a neocon.

Depends on the day really. Libs love their labels


and their soundbites.

[Czhorat]

. Libs love their labels.

I find this very funny in the context of a thread in which a Conservative is complaining about the "label" of moderate with all the class of a grade-school kid in the schoolyard...

[Czhorat]

Rudy Guiliani is a moderate. The people they call moderates today are liberals or progressive republicans or something.

Why do you consider Guiliani a moderate? I'm not disagreeing, just asking.

Which self-described moderates do you see as liberals?

[E7ALR]

My son's schoolbooks have redefined the word TOLERANCE too. It used to say "Accepting another person, regardless of their beliefs or culture." Now the books define it as "Accepting another person's beliefs and culture as 'equal' to our own."If this is tolerance then how do they define moral relativism?

[FocusOnLiberty]

Is it just me or do others here think the Big Media is trying to redefine moderate.

My son's schoolbooks have redefined the word TOLERANCE too. It used to say "Accepting another person, regardless of their beliefs or culture." Now the books define it as "Accepting another person's beliefs and culture as 'equal' to our own."

I guess if the Big Media keeps redefining the Middle, the idiots in Washington will keep moving Left in order to stay in the "Middle". It's like leading sheep off a cliff.

Absolutely correct. As the Marxists and Maoists dominated the language and higher educational systems over the last 100 years, they artificially moved the definition of 'center' and 'moderate' to describe those most affected by their arguments.

It was this redefinition that has created the situation where Leave It To Beaver's Father of the 50's would now be considered a RIGHT WING RADICAL.

This is EXACTLY why I created my Liberty Dial Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPI0ROuV11E). I believe that it is a more accurate measure of the real status of 'moderates' because it's not a Bell Curve between conservative and liberal. It's measured by the Ratio of Power between The People and the government.

[toreyj01]

Real hardcore libs are not who you generally see gain power in Washington, by and large they are fairly moderate, including the President.

The real libs are as nutty as the real Cons.

[Czhorat]

It was this redefinition that has created the situation where Leave It To Beaver's Father of the 50's would now be considered a RIGHT WING RADICAL.

It's not the 50's anymore. Let's look at women's issues as one example.

In the 1950's, the idea of a female Secretary of State, Senator, or Presidential candidate would have been radical. There have now been three female Secretaries of State, from both parties.

The center moves as society evolves.

[Czhorat]

Real hardcore libs are not who you generally see gain power in Washington, by and large they are fairly moderate, including the President.

The real libs are as nutty as the real Cons.

Agreed. Dennis Kucinich was the farthest left of the Presidential candidates, and Grayson is either a real liberal or just a loud-mouth lunatic; I don't know him well enough to judge.

Obama is disappointingly moderate; it always makes me laugh a bit to hear people like Sean label him a "radical".

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

If Republicans want to win they better start beating the drums about FAIR AND REGULATED ELECTIONS instead of fraudulent ACORN politics!!! This should be PRIORITY #1. This is the lifeblood of DEMOCRACY.

You already need a valid social security number or driver's license number to even register to vote in every state in the country.

[ChaosControl]

Its kind of funny how fiscal responsibility is now equivalent to right wing extremism. Oh yeah and disapproval of a president's policies is racist.

Well, not so much funny as sickening.

Just consider it part of the eternal decline of societies. They begin, they thrive and progress for a while, but they reach a tipping point and then decline. It always has happened, it always will happen.

This is all the more reason America needs a real leader; a wise, intelligent, selfless, honorable leader, who can lead this nation in the right direction.

[ChaosControl]

It's not the 50's anymore. Let's look at women's issues as one example.

In the 1950's, the idea of a female Secretary of State, Senator, or Presidential candidate would have been radical. There have now been three female Secretaries of State, from both parties.

The center moves as society evolves.

Or devolves...

[FocusOnLiberty]

I try to avoid responding to posts filled with schoolyard insults, but you should know that societal norms to evolve over time. Spending too much time in the right-wing echo chamber can skew your idea of where the middle is, where the left is, and where the right is.

On what specific issues do you disagree with "big media" on the definition of "moderate"?

But, you are SO GOOD at schoolyard insults!!! :))

Social norms can and do change over time. I know, first hand, that this is EXACTLY why the Marxists and Moaists of the last century gravitated to the universities and learning institutions. They wanted to help MOLD the changes in Social norms in their favor. And, it has worked.

And, as long as these changes in the social norm go the Marxist/Maoist direction they are VERY happy. But, let the social norm go against them they squeal like stuck pigs!!!

I had a LOT of contact in the mid-60s and early 70s with Marxist/Maoist radicals including the elites from the Ivy League colleges as well as the ground troops in the inner city. I learned their game plan then and tried to warn people for the past 40+ years. Only now are people beginning to wake up to the fact that social norms were manufactured by the left and molded by people like Bill Ayers in our universities.

When you post, we see how effective they have been.

[Czhorat]

Its kind of funny how fiscal responsibility is now equivalent to right wing extremism. Oh yeah and disapproval of a president's policies is racist.

I consider neither of the above to be true.

Recall that Bill Clinton was the last President to balance the budget. There IS a case to be made that raising taxes and maintaining a high level of government service is fiscally responsible.

The Republican party position seems to be to cut taxes regardless of spending.

[ModerateVoice]

I've heard all sorts of folks dance around this for whatever reason, but this is EXACTLY how the LEFTISTS are trying to paint CONSERVATISM as "RADICAL". I'm screaming at the top of my lungs and no one is putting them in their place about this whole issue! The BS ends NOW!

You mean like how U.S. Rep. James P. Moran Jr. (D-Va.) called Virginia's Republican slate the "Taliban ticket" ?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/02/AR2009110202921.html

Since January, Democratic lawmakers have now called Republicans, Racists, Nazis, evil mongers, and now the Taliban....................grow up liberals.

[johnrocks]

It's been tilting left for years, hell, the GOP and "conservative" ideology reminds me more of Henry "Scoop" Jackson and the Democrats in the 70's a lot more than they do Barry "Mr. Conservative" Goldwater.

[Czhorat]

But, you are SO GOOD at schoolyard insults!!!

By "schoolyard insults", I meant things from the OP like "Scoffandgagguh", "Arlen Sphincter", "Benedict Arlen", and "Scarfangagger". It makes me feel as if I'm discussing politics with an emotionally stunted twelve-year old.

As for the rest of your post, what norms do you see having changed and why does it bother you? The OP's point seemed to be that what is labelled as the "middle" is really the left. If it in fact falls between the extremes of "right" and "left", it is, by definition, the middle.

[betwixt]

Labels schmabels.

Often it would seem people wear these as a "badge" of honor for personal gratification.

Labels are a verbal weapon being used to either discredit or validate one's point of view.

[ChaosControl]

I consider neither of the above to be true.

Recall that Bill Clinton was the last President to balance the budget. There IS a case to be made that raising taxes and maintaining a high level of government service is fiscally responsible.

The Republican party position seems to be to cut taxes regardless of spending.

Society changes a lot in 10 years.

I guess fiscal irresponsibility is moderate since fiscal irresponsibility is a policy of both parties...
So I guess fiscal responsibility is either left wing or right wing extremism, perhaps its the moderates that are screwing things up?

[FocusOnLiberty]

It's not the 50's anymore. Let's look at women's issues as one example.

In the 1950's, the idea of a female Secretary of State, Senator, or Presidential candidate would have been radical. There have now been three female Secretaries of State, from both parties.

The center moves as society evolves.

No it is NOT the 50s any more. But, the differences between LIBERTY and TYRANNY never change. They are the constants by which we should measure EVERY political move. By this measure the broadening of opportunity for women was a move toward LIBERTY.

But, that does not mean that the same people that championed those liberty enhancing policies did not, conversly, propose tyranny enhancing policies. It is the POLICIES that must be evaluated.

[RedStatePaPa]

I find this very funny in the context of a thread in which a Conservative is complaining about the "label" of moderate with all the class of a grade-school kid in the schoolyard...

lol so the media did not try to paint Scuzzy as a moderate and offman as hard right?

:lol:

Must be nice to just ignore the facts all the time.

[RedStatePaPa]

Real hardcore libs are not who you generally see gain power in Washington, by and large they are fairly moderate, including the President.

The real libs are as nutty as the real Cons.

Of course. Except for pelosi. Reid. And of course, Obama. :rolleyes:

His voting record puts him at the very left hand side of the spectrum.



My, revisionism seems to be a common theme these days.

[Czhorat]

Of course. Except for pelosi. Reid. And of course, Obama. :rolleyes:

His voting record puts him at the very left hand side of the spectrum.



My, revisionism seems to be a common theme these days.

President Obama so far:

Not pushing for any further federal firearms regulation.
Not fighting for a single-payer government-run health care system.
Not in favor of same-sex marriage.
For giving telecom companies immunity for complying with requests for illegal wiretaps.
For a "cap-and-trade" plan to reduce carbon emissions rather than a hard limit.

He seems pretty moderate to me.

[ChaosControl]

President Obama so far:

Not pushing for any further federal firearms regulation.
Not fighting for a single-payer government-run health care system.
Not in favor of same-sex marriage.
For giving telecom companies immunity for complying with requests for illegal wiretaps.
For a "cap-and-trade" plan to reduce carbon emissions rather than a hard limit.

He seems pretty moderate to me.

Single-payer system would be better than what he is proposing.
Giving immunity to telecoms is disgusting.
A hard limit would be better.

His "moderate" positions stink from both ends. :P

[Czhorat]

Single-payer system would be better than what he is proposing.
Giving immunity to telecoms is disgusting.
A hard limit would be better.

I'm not judging; simply pointing out that those who see him as "far left" don't seem to be looking objectively about what the mainstream left and right positions are in modern American politics.

[Ninjacorpse]

Society changes a lot in 10 years.

I guess fiscal irresponsibility is moderate since fiscal irresponsibility is a policy of both parties...
So I guess fiscal responsibility is either left wing or right wing extremism, perhaps its the moderates that are screwing things up?

Yeah, no kidding, the people that like to push through garbage in the name of bipartisan ship. I would rather have them fighting it out playing gotcha then working together to screw us.

[TheModerateOne]

What was the old moderate?

[Rurudyne]

Just another attempt to shift the goal posts......
They've been shifting for decades now.

So-called "moderate" Republicans, for example, are the counterparts to the old radical Republicans, those who were comfortable where they were when their more radical companions (like Hillary Clinton) abandoned the party to follow after McGovern.

As the Democrats have moved steadily leftwards under the pernicious influence of these (sometimes then-new) Democrat radicals their less radical Republican counterparts have become the new moderates by default.

[Conservative16]

Exactly, left wingers are trying to redefine the term moderate as one who holds leftist views. They want liberalism to be the new moderate, and anything to the right of that is radical.

[Czhorat]

Exactly, left wingers are trying to redefine the term moderate as one who holds leftist views. They want liberalism to be the new moderate, and anything to the right of that is radical.


No. Intelligent people who see the whole political spectrum can articulate what the "moderate" or intermediate position is on a range of issues.

Partisan hacks who live on the echo chamber (of either side) see their side as mainstream and anything past that as extremism.

Let's take health-care reform as an example. What would you think the liberal, moderate, and conservative positions are?

[RedStatePaPa]

President Obama so far:

Not pushing for any further federal firearms regulation.
Not fighting for a single-payer government-run health care system.
Not in favor of same-sex marriage.
For giving telecom companies immunity for complying with requests for illegal wiretaps.
For a "cap-and-trade" plan to reduce carbon emissions rather than a hard limit.

He seems pretty moderate to me.

Too bad his own voting record says otherwise.

And lets not forget his communist/racist/terrorist friends. :rolleyes:

Doesn't sound too moderate to me.

[Rurudyne]

No. Intelligent people who see the whole political spectrum can articulate what the "moderate" or intermediate position is on a range of issues.

Partisan hacks who live on the echo chamber (of either side) see their side as mainstream and anything past that as extremism.

Let's take health-care reform as an example. What would you think the liberal, moderate, and conservative positions are?
I much prefer the "sustain lawful government" vs the "enjoin Arbitrary government and absolute rule" distinction over the more common, and more meaningless terminology.

If an FDR-style "moderate" (which is what moderate Republicans essentially are) or an LBJ-style "left of center" or so forth — all of these are in whole hog for governance by some other means than the actual Constitution of the United States, though they normally claim that they've a magical right to make something of it other than what it was and is and thus their pretext to sustain their lawlessness.

[Rurudyne]

Too bad his own voting record says otherwise.

And lets not forget his communist/racist/terrorist friends. :rolleyes:

Doesn't sound too moderate to me.
The man who starts a journey of a thousand miles is likely to think about things, and be motivated for the same reasons, much the same either 1 mile or 999 miles in.

People often draw an unrealistic distinction based on what one has been able to do so far, or their practical application of ideology, and any underlying ideology that may drive them.

[JudasGoat]

post modernistic moral relativism?

[waynevan]

Why do you consider Guiliani a moderate? I'm not disagreeing, just asking.

Which self-described moderates do you see as liberals?

He is socially moderate, not particularly anti abortion, not a bible thumper, the only thing he is hard right on is national defense and taxes practically. The left is calling Olympia Snowe and this Scozzafava woman moderates, yet they are clearly much further to the left than right, with Scozzafava going so far as to support the leftist candidate in the race she just dropped out of rather than the conservative republican. If she is a republican, than one would expect her views to be MUCH further from the democrats position than the conservative republican. Jim Jeffords, Arlen Spector, Lincoln Chaffey, sometimes even John McCain. I'm not talking about self described though, I am talking about how the media labels them.

Based objectively on the republican platform, Guiliani is the moderate and the others are progressives.

[TCUFan]

Because no one likes to say 'liberal' anymore.

TCUFan

[waynevan]

President Obama so far:

Not pushing for any further federal firearms regulation.
Not fighting for a single-payer government-run health care system.
Not in favor of same-sex marriage.
For giving telecom companies immunity for complying with requests for illegal wiretaps.
For a "cap-and-trade" plan to reduce carbon emissions rather than a hard limit.

He seems pretty moderate to me.

Under Pelosi's bill, it would become illegal to buy private health insurance after 2013. That is clearly a HUGE step towards single payer which Obama has plainly stated he is a supporter of. You are delusional if you think that isn't his goal. That is far far far left no matter how you slice it. And you know darn well he would sign that bill in a heartbeat.

[FocusOnLiberty]

No. Intelligent people who see the whole political spectrum can articulate what the "moderate" or intermediate position is on a range of issues.

Partisan hacks who live on the echo chamber (of either side) see their side as mainstream and anything past that as extremism.

Let's take health-care reform as an example. What would you think the liberal, moderate, and conservative positions are?
Hogwash!

We in the United States must begin and end with the Constitution. Period. Now, I know your side finds the Constitution crippling. But, that is what the amendment process is all about.

We might be able to see what 'moderates' THINK. But, it is FAR important to see the EFFECTS of that thinking in terms of the Constitution and the ratio of power between the people and the government.

It's clear that Statists, like yourself, are perfectly willing to hand your future over to the whims and vageries of future government bureaucrats. You want these nameless people to own not only YOUR soul; but, OUR souls as well.

The conservatives want solutions that retain individual liberties. They understand that there are things that can make things better and cheaper. For instance, the reason why we do not have enough H1N1 vaccine is that lawsuits destroyed the industry in this country and so we have to buy vaccines from offshore companies!! So, one simple cure is tort reform. But, that messes with the favored special interest group of the Statists... lawyers.

The moderates just know that something should be done. And, they assume that government should have SOME kind of role. But, they don't pay a lot of attention to the ramifications of that control. They are uneasy with selling their souls to bureaucrats; but, don't mind letting a piece of their soul be mortgaged for some that seems free. They just forget that NOTHING is EVER free.

Fortunately, the 'moderates' are waking up in ever increasing rapidity.

[FocusOnLiberty]

Exactly, left wingers are trying to redefine the term moderate as one who holds leftist views. They want liberalism to be the new moderate, and anything to the right of that is radical.

Quite right. It's part of their strategy to control the dialog and define the terms to their advantage.

[FocusOnLiberty]

By "schoolyard insults", I meant things from the OP like "Scoffandgagguh", "Arlen Sphincter", "Benedict Arlen", and "Scarfangagger". It makes me feel as if I'm discussing politics with an emotionally stunted twelve-year old.

As for the rest of your post, what norms do you see having changed and why does it bother you? The OP's point seemed to be that what is labelled as the "middle" is really the left. If it in fact falls between the extremes of "right" and "left", it is, by definition, the middle.
Is it not true that when it is convenient for them, those on the left like to define the extreme right, as they choose to characterize Liberty loving people, as bordering on being FASCISTS? Of course they do.

We find COUNTLESS examples of this linking of "the right' with fascism. And, of course, it is well understood that the far left is associated with Communisim.

It is THOSE extremes that must define the MIDDLE or MODERATE position. Since both communism and fascism are STATIST systems the converse of both are ANTI-STATIST positions.

Yes, there are American Fascists. But, they want a totalitarian form of government, just as America communists and Maoists. If FREEDOM is the point that is farthest from BOTH extremes of right and Left, then THAT is the most moderate of positions.

Those LABELED moderates, have allowed themselves to slide toward Statism and AWAY from the actual center point from both left and right statist extremes.

Backup for my claims of the common definitions of Left Wing and Right Wing can be found at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics

[Dancer]

The left isn't the new moderate. The right needs to stop being moderate and go hard right so they have room to negotiate to a moderate position. When the hard right goes to the middle, the moderate position ends up on the left.

[Flyboy84]

The msm's new definition of moderate is being a mao worshiping marxist with an (R) in front of your name.

[FocusOnLiberty]

The left isn't the new moderate. The right needs to stop being moderate and go hard right so they have room to negotiate to a moderate position. When the hard right goes to the middle, the moderate position ends up on the left.

I would argue that LIBERTY is the benchmark for the center. And, that STATISM, in EITHER direction, moves us toward a tyrannical state.

I also separate "Moderate" politicians from individuals that call themselves "moderates".

We can WIN over individuals that define themselves as moderates when we begin to describe policies in terms of the Ratio of Power between The People and the government. And, if we can show moderates just how close we are to the "Tipping Point" where the weight of the government will be SO heavy that it will simply crush our liberties with impunity.

[Realamerican10]

Big media, DNC, Obama, the demorats in congress, all are trying to re write history in their image.... :))

you mean like those conservatives trying to rewrite the Bible? how do you feel about that?

[Dancer]

I would argue that LIBERTY is the benchmark for the center. And, that STATISM, in EITHER direction, moves us toward a tyrannical state.

I also separate "Moderate" politicians from individuals that call themselves "moderates".

We can WIN over individuals that define themselves as moderates when we begin to describe policies in terms of the Ratio of Power between The People and the government. And, if we can show moderates just how close we are to the "Tipping Point" where the weight of the government will be SO heavy that it will simply crush our liberties with impunity.What the average voter constitutes as "moderate" is that which is not far right or far left.

When the right starts acting like the right again, then we will have moderate laws that come about through compromise of the hard right and hard left. As it is, we have a right starting from the moderate position and our laws being negotiated to the left in Washington.

[Smacktalker]

Did anyone else hear last night how many times Fox and other News outlets called Scossafava a "MODERATE"????

McCain is a moderate Republican. This woman is NOT a moderate - she is Snow and Collins and worse. I hope EVERY SINGLE TIME Republicans put up a Liberal Republican that they are defeated. They deserve it. Libertarian ideals are ok if you are a conservative. Keeping govt out of our lives is ok with almost every Conservative. That also means keeping gay marriage out of schools.

I'm so mad that Hoffman lost. IN ANY OTHER STATE, Doug Hoffman is a MODERATE!!!

In NY he is painted as some crazy Right Winger!!!

[FocusOnLiberty]

you mean like those conservatives trying to rewrite the Bible? how do you feel about that?
And, the evidence is....?????

Take your time. We'll wait.

[Smacktalker]

You mean like how U.S. Rep. James P. Moran Jr. (D-Va.) called Virginia's Republican slate the "Taliban ticket" ?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/02/AR2009110202921.html

Since January, Democratic lawmakers have now called Republicans, Racists, Nazis, evil mongers, and now the Taliban....................grow up liberals.


Nice catch! Proves the point doesn't it?