If you doubt there is extraterrestrial life, you're crazy

[waynevan]

There are a couple of HUNDRED BILLION galaxies which have at least a couple of HUNDRED BILLION stars in each of them. We are finding stars all over the dang universe that have planets around them, suggesting that there are literally TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS of planets out there. Now we are finding planets that have water, and carbon dioxide, and methane and other stuffs that are necessary to support life.

I say, if you don't think there is life and quite likely other civilizations out there, you are as dense as a rock.

ScienceDaily (Oct. 21, 2009) — Peering far beyond our solar system, NASA researchers have detected the basic chemistry for life in a second hot gas planet, advancing astronomers toward the goal of being able to characterize planets where life could exist. The planet is not habitable but it has the same chemistry that, if found around a rocky planet in the future, could indicate the presence of life.
"It's the second planet outside our solar system in which water, methane and carbon dioxide have been found, which are potentially important for biological processes in habitable planets," said researcher Mark Swain of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. "Detecting organic compounds in two exoplanets now raises the possibility that it will become commonplace to find planets with molecules that may be tied to life."
Swain and his co-investigators used data from two of NASA's orbiting Great Observatories, the Hubble Space Telescope and Spitzer Space Telescope, to study HD 209458b, a hot, gaseous giant planet bigger than Jupiter that orbits a sun-like star about 150 light years away in the constellation Pegasus. The new finding follows their breakthrough discovery in December 2008 of carbon dioxide around another hot, Jupiter-size planet, HD 189733b. Earlier Hubble and Spitzer observations of that planet had also revealed water vapor and methane.
The detections were made through spectroscopy, which splits light into its components to reveal the distinctive spectral signatures of different chemicals. Data from Hubble's near-infrared camera and multi-object spectrometer revealed the presence of the molecules, and data from Spitzer's photometer and infrared spectrometer measured their amounts.


You can read the rest of the article here; http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091021142925.htm

[Drawz]

If it's not to late you should probabley edit that title.

[Esox]

Spoonerisms to say swear words are verboten, are they?

Duly noted.

[Vaard]

well, it comes down to the timing of having two civilizations be able to travel in space at the same time live near enough to each other to have an encounter......


i think the odds against that offset the number of planets that are out there.....


so other life out there... an alomst definate chance......

meeting such other life.. about nil minus one.......

[Vaard]

oh yeah. that title will get you banned....

spoonerism are VERY much against ToS.....

[Clintville]

Maybe. However doubting humanity will ever run into extraterrestrial life, especially advanced life, is whole different thing.

[waynevan]

One cannot edit thread titles, only mods can do that. Er, um, hopefully one will?

[Drawz]

Vaard posted in TTTM asking for a change, maybe you should second the motion there, and perhaps throw in an apology for the mistake. :)

[Clintville]

Oh, does it really matter?

[CaptainPike]

So we all agree that the reason we haven't seen creatures from another planet is because they can't travel here, and we can't travel there. Right??

[Wild Bill03]

Everytime I see the Drake Equation ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation ) I laugh, we have no idea what numbers to use for all the variables and we never will.

I have been into amature astronomy since the mid 70's. At first I spent all my money on telescopes & eyepieces then I realized looking at all this cool stuff didnt teach me anything about them so I started spending all my money on astronomy books.

After a couple thousand dollars in books I started to see the books become outdated as new theories took place of the old theories. So I started to spend the money on astro gear again since it wouldnt be outdate to the point of not working anymore.

Now with the internet theres no reason to spend money on books and I can keep up on the latest theories even though theres no reason to since the theories still get outdated.

How many stars in a galaxy? How many galaxies in the universe? It depends on who you ask. And forget about how many planets, how many of those planets could support life, how many actually have life, is any of that life intellegent. Also what exactly qualifies as intellegent?

When pulsars were discovered some astronomers thought they could be navagational beacons for interstellar travel used by intellegent life out there so they didnt want to panic people by telling them, they called them LGM's (for little green men)....lol.

Then there was the WOW signal found by SETI reaserchers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

I think theres intellegent life out there but we will never see it. But like some astronomers have said, We may not want to see it.

[JeffR]

I saw where someone actually calculated the odds. The result was 1. (100%)

[Conan]

well, it comes down to the timing of having two civilizations be able to travel in space at the same time live near enough to each other to have an encounter......


i think the odds against that offset the number of planets that are out there.....


so other life out there... an alomst definate chance......

meeting such other life.. about nil minus one.......

Indeed.

How long does advance life exit on any given planet without running out of resources, wars or yes environmental damage during its own existences? 20,000 years? 40 thousand years?

In either case that's only a blink in the overall time frame. Civilizations had came on gone, so getting 2 civilizations to prop up at any given time would be rarity....let alone close enough to communicate with each other.

BTW what is Spoonerisms....so I don't make the same mistake.

[sideview]

The probability of interstellar contact is so remote, if a spaceship landed in broad daylight with full media coverage the odds would overwhelmingly favor the most outlandish conspiracy theory you could possibly think of.

Having said that, though the odds are in the absolute extreme range they, are not zero. If a ship was capable of handling generations of a civilization, especially if they had a long life span, it is possible that they could come across another inhabited planet.

However, there would be the problem of a limited gene pool. Limited space would force the species to become smaller. With limited energy resources lighting would have to be kept at a minimum so eyesight would have to improve, maybe developing larger eyes. The precarious life support systems and environment means they would have to be very sensitive to what was going on around them as well as what others where doing. You’d almost have to develop some type of sixth sense to avoid all the potential dangers and accidents on such a voyage.

No the odds are to great. Anybody that believes in aliens is just got to be silly.

[Lima India Bravo]

So we all agree that the reason we haven't seen creatures from another planet is because they can't travel here, and we can't travel there. Right??

Nope. The real reason is in my sig line.......

[Drawz]

Regarding space faring (intersteller) civilizations (currently extant).

If you use our own planet as a model to determine the likelyhood, I'd say it's very low.

Life has existed on this planet for some billions of years.
Only in the last 10000 have we had civilization.
Only in the last two hundred have we been industrialized.
Only in the last 40 have we had the most rudiamentary space programs.

Further we developed technology capable of eliminating our entire species decades before we had the technology to orbit a steel basketball around our planet.

Then after a short burst of intense activity we put a handfull of men on the Moon... And promptly lost any real interest in manned spaceflight outside of fiddling around in our own orbit. And even those efforts are minimal at best.

And keep in mind that as a species, we're curious, we're explorers. Who's to say that that attribute would be common among other intelligent species?

Sadly, given current circumstances, I think it far more likely that the human race will die here on Earth before we ever establish viable communities on other planets or moons here in our solar system, much less develop any kind of manned intersteller exploration.

[Residential Bob]

So we all agree that the reason we haven't seen creatures from another planet is because they can't travel here, and we can't travel there. Right??No. Another reason we haven't seen creatures from other planets may be because creatures don't exist on other planets.

Yes, I'm dense as a rock.

[Samm]

No. Another reason we haven't seen creatures from other planets may be because creatures don't exist on other planets.

Yes, I'm dense as a rock.

While we have found a few other planets outside out solar system, we have not seen any of them (only gravitational wobbles and glints of reflected light.) We have barely even seen the planets in our own solar system except from afar. In fact we have only seen two, including our moon relatively closely and then only in a few spots. Heck, they could be running around on the surface of Mars in full view right now and we would not know it. So it is no surprise that we have not seen creatures from other planets.

[waynevan]

Indeed.

How long does advance life exit on any given planet without running out of resources, wars or yes environmental damage during its own existences? 20,000 years? 40 thousand years?

Or a billion years. Heh, maybe they LIKE global warming. :cool:

[waynevan]

No. Another reason we haven't seen creatures from other planets may be because creatures don't exist on other planets.

Yes, I'm dense as a rock.

A space rock or an Earth rock?

[EnchantedFrog]

If there were life on other planets, then Obama would have an ET Czar.

[StoneScratcher]

If every speck of matter is the same throughout all the galaxies (universal matter), then perhaps we, Earthlings, are dense as rock.

Earthlings see the universe with their limits and restrictions in mind. And Earthlings' thinking is based on rock (matter)--our physical bodies (which are, of course, matter).

Earthlings also equate intelligence on their measures of intelligence, using the Earthling "ruler". Doesn't this limit Earthlings to "SEE" intelligence with the limits of Earthling's intelligence?

If all matter is the same, throughout the universe, then Earthlings are made of the same matter anyone else is who is also using the physical vessel (the human body) to contain their intelligence within.

In other words, the space ship does not require matter to travel. This travel would not require appliances to maintain matter (physical body), nor would it need energy to propel a ship (there is no ship). It would be the "intelligence" which could travel--with no time involved. Time requires matter to measure change against, the pureness of intelligence would not measure itself against matter--there is no matter.

If this type of "intelligent being" exists in the realm of "intelligence" only, it would not be seen, however, it could easily interact with the material world, and exist in the form of matter. This "intelligent being" may take an Earthling form. To do so, all it requires is a compatible vessel (made of universal matter), and it will move and interact with the Earth and the Earthlings who inhabit Earth.

Earthlings view travel by moving their vessels (body & ship), creating a mini-environment of the planet they are leaving to sustain both body and ship, and they are LIMITED by their intelligence.

Perhaps Earthlings are NOT the intelligent life form other beings from other galaxies are interested in. We might just be, to them, dense as rock.

[JediMindTrick]

Without any doubt there is life on other planets.

The only way any of us will ever see it in our lifetimes is if it comes to us. But if we as a species are still around in a few hundred years it wouldn't surprise me if we are out there exploring space and who knows we might find it. We today can't even begin to fathom the technology that will exist two hundred years from now. We very well could have things warp drive, wormhole travel, etc which would allow us to explore. It sounds inconceivable now but 100 years ago it would have seemed inconceivable that we would ever go to the moon. Two hundred years ago things like cars and computers were inconceivable.

[ThrowCop]

So we all agree that the reason we haven't seen creatures from another planet is because they can't travel here, and we can't travel there. Right??Pretty much.

The odds of there being life are very high but the odds of us finding each other are impossibly remote.

[CaptainPike]

Regarding space faring (intersteller) civilizations (currently extant).

If you use our own planet as a model to determine the likelyhood, I'd say it's very low.

Life has existed on this planet for some billions of years.
Only in the last 10000 have we had civilization.
Only in the last two hundred have we been industrialized.
Only in the last 40 have we had the most rudiamentary space programs.

Further we developed technology capable of eliminating our entire species decades before we had the technology to orbit a steel basketball around our planet.

Then after a short burst of intense activity we put a handfull of men on the Moon... And promptly lost any real interest in manned spaceflight outside of fiddling around in our own orbit. And even those efforts are minimal at best.

And keep in mind that as a species, we're curious, we're explorers. Who's to say that that attribute would be common among other intelligent species?

Sadly, given current circumstances, I think it far more likely that the human race will die here on Earth before we ever establish viable communities on other planets or moons here in our solar system, much less develop any kind of manned intersteller exploration.

I thought the planet was 65 million years old? Why does that number ring a bell?

I don't get how it's gone from 65 million to billions of years old.

[Beccaria]

I do believe in alien life.


Look at Jack Black.

[ressurectedUltraSaiyanUSA]

earth is about 6 billion years old.

65 million years ago was the jurassic period.

I thought the planet was 65 million years old? Why does that number ring a bell?

I don't get how it's gone from 65 million to billions of years old.

[BillBrown]

I suspect that a civilization advanced enough to travel here, wouldn't need to travel here. They would have the ability to find out anything they wanted to know about us, from afar.

I don't take for granted that there is other intelligent life in the universe.
We simply don't know.
As a species, we are often too reluctant to say we don't know.

[badkarma]

Pretty much.

The odds of there being life are very high but the odds of us finding each other are impossibly remote.
I don't know that this is true. Even if you could only travel a small fraction of the speed of light, it could take as little as a million years or 2 (a minuscule time frame when compared to the universe standards of measuring time) to colonize the entire galaxy. Obviously the slower the ships, the slower it takes. Theoretyically we could have had hundreds of galaxy wide civilizations rise and fall in the life span of our galaxy.

[MasterBlaster]

This "intelligent being" may take an Earthling form. To do so, all it requires is a compatible vessel (made of universal matter), and it will move and interact with the Earth and the Earthlings who inhabit Earth.

I knew there was an explanation out there for Sasquatch.....kidding.

Perhaps we are in search for beings similar to us. That is on the same dimensional level. Beings we can interact with.

I think we can use common sense to derive this. The Science Fiction that is most popular in our culture point towards this.

Mankind wants to meets similar beings on the same dimensional plane. Sort of like a galactic e-harmony.

[Apatriot]

There are a couple of HUNDRED BILLION galaxies which have at least a couple of HUNDRED BILLION stars in each of them. We are finding stars all over the dang universe that have planets around them, suggesting that there are literally TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS of planets out there. Now we are finding planets that have water, and carbon dioxide, and methane and other stuffs that are necessary to support life.

I say, if you don't think there is life and quite likely other civilizations out there, you are as dense as a rock.

On the other hand, if you think that they ever visit earth you are equally crazy. The chances that one will be close enough for us to measure traces of their existence at all is extremely small.

[Apatriot]

I thought the planet was 65 million years old? Why does that number ring a bell?

I don't get how it's gone from 65 million to billions of years old.

The 65 myo came from when the asteroid wiped out the dinosaurs.

In the 1930s the estimate of earth's age was 1.6-3 billion years.

SInce the 1950s, the estimate has been pretty constant at around 4.5 billion years old. Meteorites have been dated to the same age.

[Tulsa]

A wonderful documentary on this subject of the age of the Earth is the History Channel's, "How the Earth Was Made". It's two hours long and narrated by Edward Hermann. I love Hermann's narrations. They made a spin off series titled the same thing but the original documentary is the best.

[ChaosControl]

I think ET life exists, I just think they are smart enough to stay the hell away from us.

[CaptainPike]

So we can't travel to another planet where life might exist, and they can't come here to visit us.

What happens if sometime in the future they do travel here to see us, and they look very similar to us? That would mean we both came from the same creator, wouldn't it?

[Vaard]

A wonderful documentary on this subject of the age of the Earth is the History Channel's, "How the Earth Was Made". It's two hours long and narrated by Edward Hermann. I love Hermann's narrations. They made a spin off series titled the same thing but the original documentary is the best.

its actually a series on the history channel....... i tivo the episodes.......

good series.....

[Vaard]

So we can't travel to another planet where life might exist, and they can't come here to visit us.

What happens if sometime in the future they do travel here to see us, and they look very similar to us? That would mean we both came from the same creator, wouldn't it?

not really.....


a carbon based symetrical life form is probably pretty common i would bet.......


i would bet a creator would make it so each lifeform was suited to its environment, so if they looked completely different, that still wouldnt prove anything......


now if we came across a babel fish.......

[Joeybear23]

I in awesome wonder consider all the worlds thy hands have made.