I'm buying a new computer....

[7426k]

I've used a Mac laptop for four years. It's time to replace it. FYI, I use a computer for:

1. Writing / excel type stuff
2. Creating PPT presentations
3. Running fairly large data sets (1M x 50 is about the largest) through two different stat packs
4. Using the internet, obviously.

And other general computer use (but not gaming, if that matters) The data packs are the only "intensive" items I run (as far as I know, at least)

I'm not trying to start a Mac v. Windows battle here, I'm just asking a question: Is there any reason I should consider switching back to a Windows-based system? Any reason I shouldn't just walk into the nearest store and get the MacBook Pro?

[WorldWatcher]

I've used a Mac laptop for four years. It's time to replace it. FYI, I use a computer for:

1. Writing / excel type stuff
2. Creating PPT presentations
3. Running fairly large data sets (1M x 50 is about the largest) through two different stat packs
4. Using the internet, obviously.

And other general computer use (but not gaming, if that matters) The data packs are the only "intensive" items I run (as far as I know, at least)

I'm not trying to start a Mac v. Windows battle here, I'm just asking a question: Is there any reason I should consider switching back to a Windows-based system? Any reason I shouldn't just walk into the nearest store and get the MacBook Pro?


I don't really think it makes that much difference any more.


Personally I find Windows machines easier to use for a couple of reasons:

1. I find shortcut keys are more functional on a Windows machine and I'm a keyboard type of guy. On a Windows machine I can open and process dialog boxes with shortcuts. Often they are not available on a Mac.

2. I work in Excel A LOT. I hate working Excel on a MAC because of the way it's very easy to get toolbars over your spreadsheet and when highlighting cell ranges it can be pretty hard to see what you've highlighted.


BTW - I have a (IIRC) a 20" iMac desktop and a Dell Attitude E6500 laptop.



No matter which you buy, make sure you get extra RAM for running applications instead of the minimum.



>>>>

[7426k]

Thanks Worldwatcher. I too work in Excel a lot - I understand the problem you mention but I think I'm just so use it that it doesn't bother me. In the other stat packs, that problem doesn't arise.

I've never been smart enough to use keyboard shortcuts;)

re: RAM. As it turns out, I run a program that needs 2G min and runs best with 4G, so I had already planned to upgrade there.

Speaking of shortcuts....does windows have an equivalent to Expose? I use that about 5,000 times per day.

[Hoobeedoo Bejesus]

If price is not an issue, then proceed with a Mac.

[LouC]

Congratulations on getting a new machine.

I have never been on a Mac so I can't help you there.

Windows 7 release date is October 22nd.

A something to consider if going to Windows, do you want Vista or to "beta test" Windows 7.

Beta test, that is what they call it right?

I am still a novice about computers

[WorldWatcher]

Speaking of shortcuts....does windows have an equivalent to Expose? I use that about 5,000 times per day.


I just use ALT+TAB to bring up the "Switching Box".



Hold down the ALT Key and tap TAB, the Switch Box comes up with the last program used and icons for the rest of the programs. For each tap of TAB it goes to the next program in the squence. Once you get to the one you want let go of the ALT Key and you will go to that program.


The regular Switch Box is a small window with icons in it and the Window Title at the bottom.

Or you can Google "TaskswitchPowertoySetup.exe". The keys still work the same but instead of just icons you get a preview of the window you are switching to.



All I have to do is press ALT with my thumb and TAB with my finger and I've switched programs.



>>>>

[MrShotShot]

I've heard nothing but good things about Windows 7 - what Vista should have been.

And FYI, the beta testing has already happened.

Personally, for what you're doing, I don't really see the need to pay the Mac premium unless you just want the snob appeal for when you're sitting in Starbucks.

[7426k]

I've heard nothing but good things about Windows 7 - what Vista should have been.

And FYI, the beta testing has already happened.

Personally, for what you're doing, I don't really see the need to pay the Mac premium unless you just want the snob appeal for when you're sitting in Starbucks.

The main factor is simply using what I'm used to using - and worrying less about viruses etc....

And I hate Starbucks;)

[Hoobeedoo Bejesus]

The main factor is simply using what I'm used to using - and worrying less about viruses etc....

And I hate Starbucks;)

Microsoft offers free anti-virus and anti-spyware protection now that works very well.

[7426k]

Microsoft offers free anti-virus and anti-spyware protection now that works very well.
Really?

You don't have to pay for McAfee or Kapersky anymore?

That's a nice change. Does it also run pretty well (i.e. doesn't pop up and slow your computer all the time?)

[WorldWatcher]

The main factor is simply using what I'm used to using - and worrying less about viruses etc....

And I hate Starbucks;)



Are Mac's really less prone to viruses, or is that Mac's have historically been such a small share of the market they weren't worth attacking?



>>>>

[Hoobeedoo Bejesus]

Really?

You don't have to pay for McAfee or Kapersky anymore?

That's a nice change. Does it also run pretty well (i.e. doesn't pop up and slow your computer all the time?)

Yup!

http://www.microsoft.com/Security_Essentials/

It runs great. I've been using it for at least a month at work and have heard no complaints from the few users I put it on as well.

[7426k]

Are Mac's really less prone to viruses, or is that Mac's have historically been such a small share of the market they weren't worth attacking?



>>>>

I'd presume it's more of a market share "problem", but let's be honest here: I don't care what the reason is, I only care about the result

[chip]

I cant see paying $1200 for something that you can pay $600 for that does what you need.

[chip]

I'd presume it's more of a market share "problem", but let's be honest here: I don't care what the reason is, I only care about the result

Ive never had any issues with viruses etc and all I have ever used is free AVG on my windows based computers.

[7426k]

I cant see paying $1200 for something that you can pay $600 for that does what you need.

^That's the flipside of my internal debate. FWIW, the actual difference for me ends up being about $400.

I could find some rather creative uses for $400!

[LouC]

...And FYI, the beta testing has already happened...

Yes the "official" beta testing that began in July is concluded.

I said I was a computer novice, not a computer illiterate... ;)

[7426k]

Yes the "official" beta testing that began in July is concluded.

I said I was a computer novice, not a computer illiterate... ;)

Honestly, I don't know if I trust that the "Beta testing" took care of any problems. I'm sure they beta-tested vista as well. I don't mind XP at all, but I played around on vista for a few weeks and hated it.

[Hoobeedoo Bejesus]

Honestly, I don't know if I trust that the "Beta testing" took care of any problems. I'm sure they beta-tested vista as well. I don't mind XP at all, but I played around on vista for a few weeks and hated it.

I've been on 7 for at least 6 months now. It's great.

[WorldWatcher]

^That's the flipside of my internal debate. FWIW, the actual difference for me ends up being about $400.

I could find some rather creative uses for $400!



The difference between men and boys...


Well you know the rest.




In the end if you can afford it you should get what you want. If cost is a factor and you have other uses for that $400, factor that in. If this is a "screw it this is the one I want" case go for it.



>>>>

[MrShotShot]

Honestly, I don't know if I trust that the "Beta testing" took care of any problems. I'm sure they beta-tested vista as well. I don't mind XP at all, but I played around on vista for a few weeks and hated it.

I seem to recall that Vista was considered a clunker pretty much out of the box - I have it on a system I bought earlier this year and, frankly, it's been cleaned up nicely.

As far as 7 goes, I'm just relaying what I've read and heard in the tech press - folks seem to be very happy with it.

[LouC]

Honestly, I don't know if I trust that the "Beta testing" took care of any problems. I'm sure they beta-tested vista as well. I don't mind XP at all, but I played around on vista for a few weeks and hated it.

I went from ancient Windows 98 to ME then right past XP to Vista.

I am still only running the basic package of software that came with the Vista so I haven't had any chance to see it work with PPT or Excel or Word.

The one thing that I absolutely hate about Vista is that I had to install a file search engine because searching for files on my computer in Vista is no bueno.

Nothing else has twisted my knickers with Vista, other than the inoperable search function, but I haven't really tasked this computer like I did my old one.

[LouC]

I seem to recall that Vista was considered a clunker pretty much out of the box - I have it on a system I bought earlier this year and, frankly, it's been cleaned up nicely.

As far as 7 goes, I'm just relaying what I've read and heard in the tech press - folks seem to be very happy with it.

I have heard glowing accounts as well, but I heard glowing reviews about Vista.

[LouC]

I've been on 7 for at least 6 months now. It's great.

Of 9 :think:

[sironin]

Whatever you get, just make sure your stat packages will run properly on it before you purchase. There have been a lot of significant OS changes in the last 4 years to make that a primary concern.

You may also want find some reviews to ensure that the laptop will meet your needs in regards to reliability. It won't do you a lot of good to find a cheap laptop that overheats while crunching an analysis.

[Samm]

I've been on 7 for at least 6 months now. It's great.

Will it run old 95 and 98 software? My XP won't.

[Ignotus]

Congratulations on getting a new machine.

I have never been on a Mac so I can't help you there.

Windows 7 release date is October 22nd.

A something to consider if going to Windows, do you want Vista or to "beta test" Windows 7.

Beta test, that is what they call it right?

I am still a novice about computers

If you buy a new computer it will come with a Windows 7 upgrade key that you can use when it is released. This has been happening for some time now. The only reason for waiting would be to avoid the upgrade process etc.

[Ignotus]

I have heard glowing accounts as well, but I heard glowing reviews about Vista.

I have had the RTM version of Windows 7 on my laptop for over a month now, upgraded from Vista with relatively few issues. I had a few installers I had to run in Vista compatibility mode to get working, and of course there are some web based applications/sites that don't work well with IE8.

The only other problem was the fact my Dell Laptop doesn't have hardware virtualization enabled in the bios, and there is no option to enable it outside of hacking your bios. You need hardware virtualization to run the "XP mode" virtual machine if you need it for backward compatibility with a specific XP application. That's definitely something I would research before purchasing a new laptop.

[Getty Girl]

once i got mac i never went back

[Ignotus]

No matter which you buy, make sure you get extra RAM for running applications instead of the minimum.


And just to add to what you are saying...

1) if you go with Windows, make sure to get the 64 bit edition so you aren't capped at 4GB of ram. You will only get around 3.5GBish of usable ram when all is said and done on a 32bit OS.

2) You want to check the maximum memory capacity for the hardware. There are still plenty of laptops out there that can only hold up to 4GB of ram. If I were buying a new computer, I would want that maximum to be at least 8GB. This would help to increase the lifespan of the notebook as more memory intensive applications are released in the future.

3) If you purchase a Windows PC, it is usually cheaper to go with the defaults or minimum amounts of ram from the manufacturer. If you need more, just purchase it from a site such as newegg.com and install it yourself. It is fairly simple to install and it will most likely save you money.

[7426k]

Whatever you get, just make sure your stat packages will run properly on it before you purchase. There have been a lot of significant OS changes in the last 4 years to make that a primary concern.

You may also want find some reviews to ensure that the laptop will meet your needs in regards to reliability. It won't do you a lot of good to find a cheap laptop that overheats while crunching an analysis.

^^^^THAT is a Great point. Thanks for bringing it up.

[7426k]

And just to add to what you are saying...

1) if you go with Windows, make sure to get the 64 bit edition so you aren't capped at 4GB of ram. You will only get around 3.5GBish of usable ram when all is said and done on a 32bit OS.

2) You want to check the maximum memory capacity for the hardware. There are still plenty of laptops out there that can only hold up to 4GB of ram. If I were buying a new computer, I would want that maximum to be at least 8GB. This would help to increase the lifespan of the notebook as more memory intensive applications are released in the future.

3) If you purchase a Windows PC, it is usually cheaper to go with the defaults or minimum amounts of ram from the manufacturer. If you need more, just purchase it from a site such as newegg.com and install it yourself. It is fairly simple to install and it will most likely save you money.
Lots of good advice, thanks!

[ogibillm]

now is an especially good time to be buying a pc. with windows 7 coming out it's close out time on the models running vista. if you can still find one (i had to go to three best buys to find the desktop i just bought. not because i was that particular on the model, but because the others only had top and bottom line models left).

and the best news... pretty much anything you buy now will be eligible for a free windows 7 upgrade.

[MarkyS]

Congratulations on getting a new machine.

I have never been on a Mac so I can't help you there.

Windows 7 release date is October 22nd.

A something to consider if going to Windows, do you want Vista or to "beta test" Windows 7.

Beta test, that is what they call it right?

I am still a novice about computers

Windows 7 just got a very good review from USA TODAY. They say it should compete with Macs and erase all bad memories of Vista. We'll see.

M

[7426k]

It's as if the people at Apple read my post....

Earlier this week, they released new versions of some models. They upgraded their laptops so that I can now "downgrade" to a less expensive laptop and get the same (or better) features and performance. I also forgot that if I REALLY need Windows for something I can now run it on a Mac (for a nice fee, of course)

So, the difference that was $400 when I started this thread is now less than $200. And that makes it more of a no-brainer for me.

At any rate, I do appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments. Learned a lot.

7

[Old_Mil]

I'm not trying to start a Mac v. Windows battle here, I'm just asking a question: Is there any reason I should consider switching back to a Windows-based system?

No.

Any reason I shouldn't just walk into the nearest store and get the MacBook Pro?

No.

You might consider going the OSx86 project route if you're handy with hardware, but you have to be really careful in choosing which laptop you get. Easier to do with desktop components.

[Nevarwinter]

I know at least a dozen folks beta testing windows 7 and I have yet to hear a single negative thing about it aside from the general stuff when beta testing anything. (don't have this or that driver for x product...but this is bound to happen during a beta test anyway).

I'm currently beta testing a game where quite a few of the people are testing it on Windows 7. It supposedly surpasses Vista 64, which says a lot because Vista 64 was about as rock solid as it got.

[Samm]

I know at least a dozen folks beta testing windows 7 and I have yet to hear a single negative thing about it aside from the general stuff when beta testing anything. (don't have this or that driver for x product...but this is bound to happen during a beta test anyway).

I'm currently beta testing a game where quite a few of the people are testing it on Windows 7. It supposedly surpasses Vista 64, which says a lot because Vista 64 was about as rock solid as it got.

Maybe you can tell me... It is my understanding that Windows 7 emulates 95 and 98 as well as XP allowing you to run old applications that were designed for those earlier versions. Is that true?

[sideview]

I've used a Mac laptop for four years. It's time to replace it. FYI, I use a computer for:

1. Writing / excel type stuff
2. Creating PPT presentations
3. Running fairly large data sets (1M x 50 is about the largest) through two different stat packs
4. Using the internet, obviously.

And other general computer use (but not gaming, if that matters) The data packs are the only "intensive" items I run (as far as I know, at least)

I'm not trying to start a Mac v. Windows battle here, I'm just asking a question: Is there any reason I should consider switching back to a Windows-based system? Any reason I shouldn't just walk into the nearest store and get the MacBook Pro?


The first thing to do is determine the software you are comfortable with and what you can afford. That will usually determine what you need.

Windows 7 is much, much better then Vista and more responsive then any windows package has been in a long time. They are still trying to do too much for my taste, but I’m a really old computer geek.

[OldBuzzard]

Maybe you can tell me... It is my understanding that Windows 7 emulates 95 and 98 as well as XP allowing you to run old applications that were designed for those earlier versions. Is that true?

That's "semi-true".

Win 7 Business and Ultimate editions can use a free application from MS called "Windows Virtual PC" to run XP in a virtual mode. Tht will let them upgrade to Windows 7, yet still allow them to use some old applications that were/are incompatabile with Vista and 7.

There is one limitation, and that it that the CPU has to be capable of using virtualization. Almost ALL of rhe newer AMD processors are capable, but on the Intel side, there are far fewer processors (even amongst the very newest ones) that support it.

If you have some really old XP applications that wouldn't run in Vista, it's probable that they won't run in Win 7 either. The average non-business user can still use Virtual PC, but you will have to buy and install either the Business or Ultimate editions. None of the Windows 'Home" editions support it.

Here's the MS web page for more info on Windows Virtual PC:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/default.aspx

As for Win 95 and 98 applications? That could be a bit more problimatic. However, IF those applications ran in XP, it's POSSIBLE that they would run in Virtual XP as well, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

[Ignotus]

There is one limitation, and that it that the CPU has to be capable of using virtualization. Almost ALL of rhe newer AMD processors are capable, but on the Intel side, there are far fewer processors (even amongst the very newest ones) that support it.

1) There is more than one limitation, like I said previously, your bios has to support it as well. I have a compatible CPU in my laptop but Dell didn't enable the functionality on my specific laptop. This should be less and less of a problem on newer computers that are designed to work with Windows 7.

2) You can still use virtualization software on a system that doesn't have hardware virtualization support. You just take a performance hit and it isn't as seamless of an experience as you would get with the special "XP Mode" virtual machine. However, the performance hit isn't THAT bad for most normal tasks.


As for Win 95 and 98 applications? That could be a bit more problimatic. However, IF those applications ran in XP, it's POSSIBLE that they would run in Virtual XP as well, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

It isn't problematic at all, you can run these older operating systems as Virtual Machines if you REALLY need compatibility. The main thing is to make sure you have a lot of extra ram.