Shotgun Purchase

[JudasGoat]

I don't know much about guns other than to respect them and always excercise safety with them. I'm going to buy a pump-action shotgun. Initially, I thought I wanted a new one because then I would know for sure what kind of shape it is in. After reading some forums yesterday, several folks recommended a used one. Plenty of them out there, usually in good shape if it's a quality gun and often half sometimes even less the price of a new one.
I'm looking at the remington 870 express synthetic 7 round. I also heard a lot of recommendations for the 870P -used. But I don't know if that's for law enforcement only-even used. The mossberg 500's were also talked about positively. I think I want the remington though because I heard they are "friendlier" to novices when it comes to tearing down and cleaning.
Anyone have any opinions? Also, if you have something you'd like to show off with a pic I'd love to see it.

edit to add; I am purchasing one primarily for home defense.

[chip]

Mossberg 500 for the win.

[VA-165 Boomer]

I have owned a 870 Magnum lefthand model for 30 years. It is my primary hunting gun. I have a 30 " full choke barrel and a 26" open barrel. Vented rib.
I have NEVER had to have it serviced. Regular cleaning. I have killed deer, all small game and too many quail and dove to count. It has always performed as advertised. I own Ithaca, Mossberg, Fox, Winchester, and a few off brand. The remington is my favorite.

[JudasGoat]

I have owned a 870 Magnum lefthand model for 30 years. It is my primary hunting gun. I have a 30 " full choke barrel and a 26" open barrel. Vented rib.
I have NEVER had to have it serviced. Regular cleaning. I have killed deer, all small game and too many quail and dove to count. It has always performed as advertised. I own Ithaca, Mossberg, Fox, Winchester, and a few off brand. The remington is my favorite.

See, that's where the stuff gets over my head. I don't know what the Magnum moniker means and I don't understand the choke thing. Alot of those forum guys were talking about chokes. I did read up on some finishes like 'parkerized' I think it was called. Makes sense and I like the way it looks. People talked about rust and which guns were more resistant. Also referred to 'beater' guns which could take some serious mistreatment and still hold up well. Those 870P's kept getting high marks there.
Do you use the standard stock (the part where your hand goes?) or did you switch yours out with the pistol grip kind? Which is better for home defense? I noticed it looked like the more tactical related sg's had that pistol grip type but still had the large gun-butt too. I've fired a sg before and I don't see how someone can do it with one hand and no butt on it.

[Apatriot]

I don't know much about guns other than to respect them and always excercise safety with them. I'm going to buy a pump-action shotgun. Initially, I thought I wanted a new one because then I would know for sure what kind of shape it is in. After reading some forums yesterday, several folks recommended a used one. Plenty of them out there, usually in good shape if it's a quality gun and often half sometimes even less the price of a new one.
I'm looking at the remington 870 express synthetic 7 round. I also heard a lot of recommendations for the 870P -used. But I don't know if that's for law enforcement only-even used. The mossberg 500's were also talked about positively. I think I want the remington though because I heard they are "friendlier" to novices when it comes to tearing down and cleaning.
Anyone have any opinions? Also, if you have something you'd like to show off with a pic I'd love to see it.

Remington 870 express synthetic is an ugly-looking shotgun (I own one, but the 5 shot model), but other than that is a good self defense gun. Buy one, and run a few boxes of ammo through it. Use nothing less than #4 buck for self defense.

[Apatriot]

See, that's where the stuff gets over my head. I don't know what the Magnum moniker means and I don't understand the choke thing. Alot of those forum guys were talking about chokes. I did read up on some finishes like 'parkerized' I think it was called. Makes sense and I like the way it looks. People talked about rust and which guns were more resistant. Also referred to 'beater' guns which could take some serious mistreatment and still hold up well. Those 870P's kept getting high marks there.
Do you use the standard stock (the part where your hand goes?) or did you switch yours out with the pistol grip kind? Which is better for home defense? I noticed it looked like the more tactical related sg's had that pistol grip type but still had the large gun-butt too. I've fired a sg before and I don't see how someone can do it with one hand and no butt on it.

I'd use standard stock.

Magnum means that it can hold longer (more powerful) shells. Standard for a 12-gauge is 2 3/4 inch shells. There are two magnum versions--3" magnum (which is what most 870s are chambered in) and 3 1/2" magnum, which is mainly for turkey and waterfowl hunting.

[JudasGoat]

I'd use standard stock.

Magnum means that it can hold longer (more powerful) shells. Standard for a 12-gauge is 2 3/4 inch shells. There are two magnum versions--3" magnum (which is what most 870s are chambered in) and 3 1/2" magnum, which is mainly for turkey and waterfowl hunting.

Not to mention having Magnum in the name gives it a lot more machismo. I won't be hunting for fowl or deer I don't believe so I don't guess it's something I would need.

[JudasGoat]

I have owned a 870 Magnum lefthand model for 30 years. It is my primary hunting gun. I have a 30 " full choke barrel and a 26" open barrel. Vented rib.
I have NEVER had to have it serviced. Regular cleaning. I have killed deer, all small game and too many quail and dove to count. It has always performed as advertised. I own Ithaca, Mossberg, Fox, Winchester, and a few off brand. The remington is my favorite.

I'm guessing that's none too friendly to intruders or drywall...

[Apatriot]

Not to mention having Magnum in the name gives it a lot more machismo. I won't be hunting for fowl or deer I don't believe so I don't guess it's something I would need.


I think all 870 Expresses are in 3" magnum (they will also shoot 2 3/4" shells). You don't need the Super magnum (3 1/2").

[BillBrown]

Assuming you want it for protection- Mossberg 500.

Hunting is a different story.

[stoked]

We got the Remington m-870 a couple months back. It's a nice one to have.

[birddog1]

I have owned and used both the Rem. 870 and a Mosseberg 500 both held up well and did their job and I would be happy to buy either one of them again, especially for protection. If I was going to go with the 870 I would go with a higher grade than Express as have examined a couple of them next to my 870 Wingmaster and there is a lot of difference in the quality in my opinion.

I would recommend going ahead and buying an 870 or a 500 already set up for home defense because it will cost you more in the long run to upgrade a hunting gun to their level. Go ahead and get the magzaine extension, and the shorter barrel with upgraded sights so you can shoot slugs accurately if need be, I would also opt for a synthetic stock over a wood stock.

If a used hunting shotgun is all you can afford then buy one, remove the magazine plug, and cut the barrell off to a comfortable but legal length.

[JudasGoat]

We got the Remington m-870 a couple months back. It's a nice one to have.

That's the only one that had me salivating, because I'm trying to stay away from the 'toy' aspect of it. I've heard great things about them but I do not have 7-900 bones to shell out for one. I think those come parkerized too.

[JudasGoat]

I have owned and used both the Rem. 870 and a Mosseberg 500 both held up well and did their job and I would be happy to buy either one of them again, especially for protection. If I was going to go with the 870 I would go with a higher grade than Express as have examined a couple of them next to my 870 Wingmaster and there is a lot of difference in the quality in my opinion.

I would recommend going ahead and buying an 870 or a 500 already set up for home defense because it will cost you more in the long run to upgrade a hunting gun to their level. Go ahead and get the magzaine extension, and the shorter barrel with upgraded sights so you can shoot slugs accurately if need be, I would also opt for a synthetic stock over a wood stock.

If a used hunting shotgun is all you can afford then buy one, remove the magazine plug, and cut the barrell off to a comfortable but legal length.

IYO, the 18" barrel is too long? I've heard mixed reviews about the express. Some say if it's home defense and you'll hardly ever fire it, an express is a good gun. Others have said they fired off many rounds with theirs and have had no problems. I guess like anything else opinions vary. I contacted a local gun dealer shop and asked about pricing (used) for the 870 exp synthetic. The guy said he had new ones for 370+.

[VCaddy05]

Remington 870 is as good as youll get. Very common gun easy to clean reliable, just about everyone has one so parts are around and people have alot of knowledge about them. The perfect beginer gun IMO. However, all that you listed are great

[Apatriot]

IYO, the 18" barrel is too long? I've heard mixed reviews about the express. Some say if it's home defense and you'll hardly ever fire it, an express is a good gun. Others have said they fired off many rounds with theirs and have had no problems. I guess like anything else opinions vary. I contacted a local gun dealer shop and asked about pricing (used) for the 870 exp synthetic. The guy said he had new ones for 370+.


An 18" barrel is the legal minimum. Do not cut it down.

[Beccaria]

Remington, Beretta, or Benelli-you can't go wrong.

Mossbergs are good, but the ones I've handled are a little on the heavy side.

Browning makes an EXCELLENT over-under 12-ga. that's worth the look at. I tried one out during a skeet shoot, and was dead on with a lot of my shots (and that's saying a lot, considering I'm not a long gun person).

[Beccaria]

An 18" barrel is the legal minimum. Do not cut it down.

Or at least don't TELL anybody you've cut it down :D

[Cold_War_Warrior]

IYO, the 18" barrel is too long? I've heard mixed reviews about the express. Some say if it's home defense and you'll hardly ever fire it, an express is a good gun. Others have said they fired off many rounds with theirs and have had no problems. I guess like anything else opinions vary. I contacted a local gun dealer shop and asked about pricing (used) for the 870 exp synthetic. The guy said he had new ones for 370+.

I bought the Remington 870 for about that much with the 18in. barrel, synthetic stock and extended magazine as a home defense weapon. I have yet to fire it since I live in the city and I don’t get to the range much but, I would recommend it for your intended purposes.

I can’t see paying for one already in tactical configuration unless someone needed one for their job in law enforcement. They’re out there but you’ll pay a lot more for it (even from Remington). You can add to it to change it up and customize it later when you have the money. There’s a large assortment of accessories for the 870 so, making it the gun you want is relatively easy.

[ALBOB2]

I've really only skimmed the thread so I appologize if you've already answered this, what is it going to be used for?

If it's going to be a pure home defense weapon, go with the Mossberg 500. They're inexpensive but built like tanks. Don't wast the extra $$$ on a gun that's gonna spend it's entire life leaning against the wall next to your bed. You WANT the extra weight to help absorb recoil. And disassembly is VERY easy. Do a Google search for Mossberg disassembly and you'll find a great video that shows just how ease it is.

If you're looking for a hunting gun, go with the 870. Smoother action and lighter weight are what you're looking for out in the field.

[VA-165 Boomer]

See, that's where the stuff gets over my head. I don't know what the Magnum moniker means and I don't understand the choke thing. Alot of those forum guys were talking about chokes. I did read up on some finishes like 'parkerized' I think it was called. Makes sense and I like the way it looks. People talked about rust and which guns were more resistant. Also referred to 'beater' guns which could take some serious mistreatment and still hold up well. Those 870P's kept getting high marks there.
Do you use the standard stock (the part where your hand goes?) or did you switch yours out with the pistol grip kind? Which is better for home defense? I noticed it looked like the more tactical related sg's had that pistol grip type but still had the large gun-butt too. I've fired a sg before and I don't see how someone can do it with one hand and no butt on it.You didn't mention in your first post that your intentions was to purchase for home defense. Even so I think you can't go wrong with the remington. I own a 500 and I have had trouble with it dropping shells at my feet instead of into the barrel.

[ALBOB2]

You didn't mention in your first post that your intentions was to purchase for home defense. Even so I think you can't go wrong with the remington. I own a 500 and I have had trouble with it dropping shells at my feet instead of into the barrel.

You're holding it upside down.:rolleyes:

[James Juno]

Or at least don't TELL anybody you've cut it down :D

And be sure to smelt it down before the cops get to your house after you've used it to defend your home.

[ConstitutionHugger]

See, that's where the stuff gets over my head. I don't know what the Magnum moniker means and I don't understand the choke thing. Alot of those forum guys were talking about chokes. I did read up on some finishes like 'parkerized' I think it was called. Makes sense and I like the way it looks. People talked about rust and which guns were more resistant. Also referred to 'beater' guns which could take some serious mistreatment and still hold up well. Those 870P's kept getting high marks there.
Do you use the standard stock (the part where your hand goes?) or did you switch yours out with the pistol grip kind? Which is better for home defense? I noticed it looked like the more tactical related sg's had that pistol grip type but still had the large gun-butt too. I've fired a sg before and I don't see how someone can do it with one hand and no butt on it.

I have an H&R Pardner Defender that I really like for defense as well as hunting and trap shooting. It cost me $140 new, Has a cylinder choke (wide pattern) 18.5" barrel, and Matte black finish. It has a recoil pad built in.
It looks identical to a remington 870 of the same barrel length both inside and out.

Stay with a normal or youth sized buttstock since a pistol grip at the back makes it harder to control

[Samm]

I don't know much about guns other than to respect them and always excercise safety with them. I'm going to buy a pump-action shotgun. Initially, I thought I wanted a new one because then I would know for sure what kind of shape it is in. After reading some forums yesterday, several folks recommended a used one. Plenty of them out there, usually in good shape if it's a quality gun and often half sometimes even less the price of a new one.
I'm looking at the remington 870 express synthetic 7 round. I also heard a lot of recommendations for the 870P -used. But I don't know if that's for law enforcement only-even used. The mossberg 500's were also talked about positively. I think I want the remington though because I heard they are "friendlier" to novices when it comes to tearing down and cleaning.
Anyone have any opinions? Also, if you have something you'd like to show off with a pic I'd love to see it.

Both the 870 and the 500 are excellent choices; personally, I much prefer the Remington.

If you are not wed to the high capacity, currently you can buy a Remington 870 Express (3 3-1/2 magnums or 4 2-3/4 magazine capacity, wood stock) at the Sports Authority for $270 (after $30 rebate). The regular price is $330... this is a good deal and probably better than buying used. I bought a 20 gauge for my daughter there in August; it took only 30 days for the rebate check to show up in my mail.

[Samm]

I think all 870 Expresses are in 3" magnum (they will also shoot 2 3/4" shells). You don't need the Super magnum (3 1/2").

I have never used 3-1/2 magnums, but my 870 owner's manual says it will hold three 3-1/2 magnums. I presume that means you can shoot them too.


Edit: Another look at the manual - only the Super Magnum 870 will chamber the 3-1/2 shells. My gun is only chambered for 2-3/4 or 3 inch shells; its stamped right on the barrel.

[drylok]

I have the 870 express. It's only chambered to 2 3/4 inch shells. I'm not sure that one needs 3" and I really don't think 3 1/2 inch is needed.
I'll see if I can find it, but there is a video I saw where Rob Pincus (NRA) self defense trainer, demonstrated the different shot sizes.
I'll post it up when I find it, but the long and short of it was that simple bird shot like #6 will stop a threat and also not penatrate through a wall and injur a bystander in the next room over.

You mentioned your confusion on the different chokes. What that means is there are basically 3 different chokes. Full/Modified/Improved Cylinder. The full choke will give you a tighter pattern i.e more pellets inside a 30 inch circle and will do so with more force. A modified will give you a few less pellets in that same circle and with a bit less force. Then the improved cylinder is a much more open pattern and with less force.
Then there are other chokes to in between there, but I'll just keep it simple for now.

Edit:Ah, here's that video I mentioned

http://www.downrange.tv/bestdefense/wall-penetration.htm

[Mick R.]

FWIW - I've been buying and using guns for over 45 years and I've never had a remington shotgun let me down.

[Apatriot]

I have the 870 express. It's only chambered to 2 3/4 inch shells. I'm not sure that one needs 3" and I really don't think 3 1/2 inch is needed.
I'll see if I can find it, but there is a video I saw where Rob Pincus (NRA) self defense trainer, demonstrated the different shot sizes.
I'll post it up when I find it, but the long and short of it was that simple bird shot like #6 will stop a threat and also not penatrate through a wall and injur a bystander in the next room over.

I used to think that, too, until I saw the box of truth. The #6 pellets don't penetrate well enough to be reliable for self defense, although they cause a horrific wound that is hard to treat. Basically, upon testing, the box of truth folks conclude that if it can penetrate reliably to stop someone, it will penetrate through at least 3 or 4 interior walls (of 2 sheets of dry wall on 2x4 studs). There is no getting around that simple fact.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm

[Jabbamagnus]

Mossberg 500 for the win.

Quality product for a reasonable price. I second this.

[Jabbamagnus]

You didn't mention in your first post that your intentions was to purchase for home defense. Even so I think you can't go wrong with the remington. I own a 500 and I have had trouble with it dropping shells at my feet instead of into the barrel.

Sounds like a defect. You should contact the company.

[RickRhetoric]

I am purchasing one primarily for home defense.

Shotguns would seemingly be great for home defense. Unlike a high powered rifle or handgun, they won't shoot through five walls and into a neighbors house. However, they are hard to manage in tight places such as corners inside a dark house while trying to aim at an intruder. And on most of them, it's a hassle to turn off the safety. You might have to ask your intruder for a time out while you fiddle around with trying to turn off the safety.

The absolutely best weapon for home defense is the Taurus shotgun pistol. Google it.

[JudasGoat]

Shotguns would seemingly be great for home defense. Unlike a high powered rifle or handgun, they won't shoot through five walls and into a neighbors house. However, they are hard to manage in tight places such as corners inside a dark house while trying to aim at an intruder. And on most of them, it's a hassle to turn off the safety. You might have to ask your intruder for a time out while you fiddle around with trying to turn off the safety.

The absolutely best weapon for home defense is the Taurus shotgun pistol. Google it.

the size can be a con vs. a handgun. But the offered pros seemingly outweigh that.
1. shot-guns have the spread factor, so they can be very forgiving on the aim
2. any weapon will be loud as balls, but a shotgun going off inside should scare anyone into running that has half a brain.
I live alone so the family/collateral damage isn't a factor so much.

What about rock salt shots? Do they make that? I've heard of it and saw it in a bond movie. I've also heard of little rubber pellets. not the bean bags but actual rubber 'shot' like bird shot.

I did look it up but did not see the one you were talking about. I did see another revolver that did some bad stuff to a watermelon. If I was going the handgun route though, I'd probably just get a S&W 500 with some kind of rat shot shell. Have you seen those things? MASSIVE.

[ALBOB2]

What about rock salt shots? Do they make that? I've heard of it and saw it in a bond movie. I've also heard of little rubber pellets. not the bean bags but actual rubber 'shot' like bird shot.



That should tell you something right there.:rolleyes:

Don't get cute and don't overthink the issue. If someone is in your home you eliminate the threat, period! ELIMINATE!!! Let the police deal with the requirement for less than lethal force, it's their lawyers that have put them in that ******** position. You are defending yourself and/or your home, don't mess around. :naughty:

[EnchantedFrog]

That should tell you something right there.:rolleyes:

Don't get cute and don't overthink the issue. If someone is in your home you eliminate the threat, period! ELIMINATE!!! Let the police deal with the requirement for less than lethal force, it's their lawyers that have put them in that ******** position. You are defending yourself and/or your home, don't mess around. :naughty:
Amen.
I am not going to hold an intruder at bay and hope that police don't gun ME down like happened recently. The intruder will be completely incapacitated as soon as I can arrange it.

[RickRhetoric]

I did look it up but did not see the one you were talking about.

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=200&category=Revolver&toggle=tr&breadcrumbseries=41

The Taurus shotgun pistol (a revolver) offers a spread shot also. It's also known as "The Judge." It's convertible. You can use .410 shotgun shells or .45 calibre bullets.

[Beccaria]

Shotgun's one of the best weapons for SILENT HILL as well :D

[JudasGoat]

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=200&category=Revolver&toggle=tr&breadcrumbseries=41

The Taurus shotgun pistol (a revolver) offers a spread shot also. It's also known as "The Judge." It's convertible. You can use .410 shotgun shells or .45 calibre bullets.

I was wrong. i had the search on videos instead of web sites. The video I saw WAS the TSP taking out a watermelon. That thing is bad-anus!

[JudasGoat]

Shotgun's one of the best weapons for SILENT HILL as well :D

I like the combat shotgun and the mad-max tribute sawed off shotgun in Fallout 3.

[JudasGoat]

That should tell you something right there.:rolleyes:

Don't get cute and don't overthink the issue. If someone is in your home you eliminate the threat, period! ELIMINATE!!! Let the police deal with the requirement for less than lethal force, it's their lawyers that have put them in that ******** position. You are defending yourself and/or your home, don't mess around. :naughty:

I was being serious about the rock salt. I have heard of it and it wasn't portrayed as something slick/fancy in the bond movie. It was just a non-lethal kind of load. While I want to 'eliminate' a threat and keep myself safe, I also think that (justified or not) killing another human being would affect me greatly. Will that keep me from defending myself? No.
But maybe my mindset is wrong. I have heard the creed that "you never point a gun at somebody you are not prepared to kill". Perhaps considering the non/less lethal options is a moot point.

[Apatriot]

I was being serious about the rock salt. I have heard of it and it wasn't portrayed as something slick/fancy in the bond movie. It was just a non-lethal kind of load. While I want to 'eliminate' a threat and keep myself safe, I also think that (justified or not) killing another human being would affect me greatly. Will that keep me from defending myself? No.
But maybe my mindset is wrong. I have heard the creed that "you never point a gun at somebody you are not prepared to kill". Perhaps considering the non/less lethal options is a moot point.

If you don't think you can kill, you need to think about pepper spray, rather than a gun. The less lethal alternatives are not as reliable as pepper spray, and won't eliminate the threat as well as pepper spray. Buy the bear strength spray if possible.

[stoked]

That's the only one that had me salivating, because I'm trying to stay away from the 'toy' aspect of it. I've heard great things about them but I do not have 7-900 bones to shell out for one. I think those come parkerized too.

We paid $529 for it, you might want to shop around.

[PSBandit]

edit to add; I am purchasing one primarily for home defense.

JG, I recommend this series of YT videos.

Pt 1 "Combat Shotgun Shootout:" Remington 870
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqkeKwRmWFY

Pt 2 "Combat Shotgun Shootout:" Remington 870
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnzoHDT9HVo

Pt 3 "Combat Shotgun Shootout:" Mossberg 590A1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA_KklQsYFw

Pt 4 "Combat Shotgun Shootout:" Mossberg 590A1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou54JJOdUF0

The videos cover two of the best home defense shotguns (Remington 870 and Mossberg 590) and are reviewed by a guy who is very knowlegable. Videos cover pros and cons of both models with great detail on each.

Hope they help.

[JudasGoat]

JG, I recommend this series of YT videos.

Pt 1 "Combat Shotgun Shootout:" Remington 870
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqkeKwRmWFY

Pt 2 "Combat Shotgun Shootout:" Remington 870
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnzoHDT9HVo

Pt 3 "Combat Shotgun Shootout:" Mossberg 590A1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA_KklQsYFw

Pt 4 "Combat Shotgun Shootout:" Mossberg 590A1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou54JJOdUF0

The videos cover two of the best home defense shotguns (Remington 870 and Mossberg 590) and are reviewed by a guy who is very knowlegable. Videos cover pros and cons of both models with great detail on each.

Hope they help.

awesome, thanks!

[MasterBlaster]

Let's leave out brand's here is what I look for.

Extended tube magazine, good capacity, helps balance the weapon when fully loaded.

Upper tang safety. Just a personal choice. I dont like walking around with safety off. I can flip an upper tang with my thumb and fire with index finger in one smooth step.

Pump action features duo-slide rails. This makes the action smoother, faster, and more reliable.

I do have my eye on "The Judge" 410/.45 Taurus. But 410 is pretty light.

I know less than lethal shells are made, but offered to law enforcement only. Why? I don't know.

[VA-165 Boomer]

I have owned a 870 Magnum lefthand model for 30 years. It is my primary hunting gun. I have a 30 " full choke barrel and a 26" open barrel. Vented rib.
I have NEVER had to have it serviced. Regular cleaning. I have killed deer, all small game and too many quail and dove to count. It has always performed as advertised. I own Ithaca, Mossberg, Fox, Winchester, and a few off brand. The remington is my favorite.I think the winchester 1300 comes in a 7 shot model with syn. stock.

[ALBOB2]

I was being serious about the rock salt. I have heard of it and it wasn't portrayed as something slick/fancy in the bond movie. It was just a non-lethal kind of load. While I want to 'eliminate' a threat and keep myself safe, I also think that (justified or not) killing another human being would affect me greatly. Will that keep me from defending myself? No.
But maybe my mindset is wrong. I have heard the creed that "you never point a gun at somebody you are not prepared to kill". Perhaps considering the non/less lethal options is a moot point.

I was being serious too. Unfortunately, I used a snide remark to do it. I appologize for that.

Rock salt has been used in the past. It's primary purpose was to rid farms of unwanted local pests. It's NOT a defense load. It's designed to injure. If you use something like that you'll find yourself in prison. Then, after you get out, you'll find yourself in civil court being sued by the person you injured.

Other non-lethal loads were designed for law enforcement use. You use them and the first thing the other guy's attorney is going to ask is, "What law enforcement training have you had to use this type of ammunition?"

I know this sounds odd but, go out and get some 00 buckshot, keep it in your shotgun and if somebody breaks into your home you shoot the son of a bitch with it. He's probably going to die. Know that. You shouldn't even be CONSIDERING owning a shotgun until after you've made the decision that you can do that without hesitation.

Part of that decision should be the knowledge that you WILL get sued after you shoot. If the guy survives, he's going to sue you. If the guy dies, his family is going to sue you. If it was a justified shooting you'll win but, you'll still have to go through the trial with all the emotional trauma that entails. Again, that's something you have to know, understand and accept before you should ever think about buying any type of self defense weapon.

If you want my 100% honest opinion, you're not ready. From the posts I've read, you're already thinking of ways to avoid the inevitable. That's not good. That leads to indecision and hesitation. Those lead to YOU being the one getting shot. Make the decision that you can and will pull the trigger FIRST, then worry about what make and model of gun the trigger is attached to.

[ConstitutionHugger]

For home defense, get a 12ga that can handle 3" magnums. Practice like crazy with target loads to get familiar with the weapon. Shoot target loads atleast monthly to stay familiar with the weapon. in the meantime load it with either 00 or 000 buckshot 3" magnums. If somebody breaks in shoot the SOB til they are no longer a threat (not moving).
As soon as the threat is neutralized and you and your family are safe then call the cops.

Bottom line is: Ensure your safety first then let God and the cops sort it out. If you are justified you will be cleared, but like ALBOB said you will have to deal with the trials and all that crap, but it's better than having to deal with atleast one funeral or rape.

[Samm]

I was being serious about the rock salt. I have heard of it and it wasn't portrayed as something slick/fancy in the bond movie. It was just a non-lethal kind of load. While I want to 'eliminate' a threat and keep myself safe, I also think that (justified or not) killing another human being would affect me greatly. Will that keep me from defending myself? No.
But maybe my mindset is wrong. I have heard the creed that "you never point a gun at somebody you are not prepared to kill". Perhaps considering the non/less lethal options is a moot point.

Rock salt is considered "less lethal"... it can indeed kill at close range. If you want to be sure not to kill an intruder, use pepper spray, a taser or a louisville slugger.

[ConstitutionHugger]

Rock salt is considered "less lethal"... it can indeed kill at close range. If you want to be sure not to kill an intruder, use pepper spray, a taser or a louisville slugger.

Careful Samm! a taser,and a Louisville slugger can kill somebody and if the person is allergic or has asmtha pepper spray can too.;)

if you want to make sure not to kill somebody be a helpless cooperative (possibly dead) victim

[Samm]

Careful Samm! a taser,and a Louisville slugger can kill somebody and if the person is allergic or has asmtha pepper spray can too.

if you want to make sure not to kill somebody be a helpless cooperative (possibly dead) victim

That is true...

Sorry JudasGoat. Looks like you are going to have to choose between possibly taking their life or possibly losing yours. :neutral:

[ConstitutionHugger]

That is true...

Sorry JudasGoat. Looks like you are going to have to choose between possibly taking their life or possibly losing yours. :neutral:

Confucious say: it better to lose scumbag than decent person

[JudasGoat]

I was being serious too. Unfortunately, I used a snide remark to do it. I appologize for that.

Rock salt has been used in the past. It's primary purpose was to rid farms of unwanted local pests. It's NOT a defense load. It's designed to injure. If you use something like that you'll find yourself in prison. Then, after you get out, you'll find yourself in civil court being sued by the person you injured.

Other non-lethal loads were designed for law enforcement use. You use them and the first thing the other guy's attorney is going to ask is, "What law enforcement training have you had to use this type of ammunition?"

I know this sounds odd but, go out and get some 00 buckshot, keep it in your shotgun and if somebody breaks into your home you shoot the son of a bitch with it. He's probably going to die. Know that. You shouldn't even be CONSIDERING owning a shotgun until after you've made the decision that you can do that without hesitation.

Part of that decision should be the knowledge that you WILL get sued after you shoot. If the guy survives, he's going to sue you. If the guy dies, his family is going to sue you. If it was a justified shooting you'll win but, you'll still have to go through the trial with all the emotional trauma that entails. Again, that's something you have to know, understand and accept before you should ever think about buying any type of self defense weapon.

If you want my 100% honest opinion, you're not ready. From the posts I've read, you're already thinking of ways to avoid the inevitable. That's not good. That leads to indecision and hesitation. Those lead to YOU being the one getting shot. Make the decision that you can and will pull the trigger FIRST, then worry about what make and model of gun the trigger is attached to.

You make excellent points and I appreciate your candor.

[Claymore]

I like the combat shotgun and the mad-max tribute sawed off shotgun in Fallout 3.


I won one of these in a raffle last year. It's a neat back up on the playing field.:mrgreen:


http://www.airsoftmegastore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=GR6801&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shoppingengine

[Claymore]

I keep my M500 loaded with 00 buckshot/

[Claymore]

I was being serious about the rock salt. I have heard of it and it wasn't portrayed as something slick/fancy in the bond movie. It was just a non-lethal kind of load. While I want to 'eliminate' a threat and keep myself safe, I also think that (justified or not) killing another human being would affect me greatly. Will that keep me from defending myself? No.
But maybe my mindset is wrong. I have heard the creed that "you never point a gun at somebody you are not prepared to kill". Perhaps considering the non/less lethal options is a moot point.


If you aren't ready to stop a threat permanently, then just get pepper spray. Myself, I refuse to feel any guilt about a criminal's poor life choices. They break in on me, I'm gonna break them.

[birddog1]

IYO, the 18" barrel is too long? I've heard mixed reviews about the express. Some say if it's home defense and you'll hardly ever fire it, an express is a good gun. Others have said they fired off many rounds with theirs and have had no problems. I guess like anything else opinions vary. I contacted a local gun dealer shop and asked about pricing (used) for the 870 exp synthetic. The guy said he had new ones for 370+.

No, anything less than 18 or might even be 18.5 inches will land you a stay at Club Fed. Depending upon the gun and my own intentions (whether or not I might ever have to use the shotgun outside the home) I would even look at a longer barrell in the 20" range. A longer barrel may afford you more room for a magazine extension and thus another round or two.

My statement about a shorter barrell was in refrence to a hunting model which will usually come equiped with a 24"-28" barrel.

If a hunting model will do I would be you could find a higher grade used 870 for $250 or less.

[Apatriot]

No, anything less than 18 or might even be 18.5 inches will land you a stay at Club Fed. Depending upon the gun and my own intentions (whether or not I might ever have to use the shotgun outside the home) I would even look at a longer barrell in the 20" range. A longer barrel may afford you more room for a magazine extension and thus another round or two.

My statement about a shorter barrell was in refrence to a hunting model which will usually come equiped with a 24"-28" barrel.

If a hunting model will do I would be you could find a higher grade used 870 for $250 or less.

The law is 18 inches. If I were cutting one down myself, I wouldn't cut under 18.5, just in case the feds see it.

[Claymore]

On the few pccasions I actually had to put Mr. Mossberg to work, the distinct sound of a round being racked into the chamber was more than enough to send the would-be burglars into headlomg retreat.
Possibly in search of fresh underwear.

[ConstitutionHugger]

On the few pccasions I actually had to put Mr. Mossberg to work, the distinct sound of a round being racked into the chamber was more than enough to send the would-be burglars into headlomg retreat.
Possibly in search of fresh underwear.

I told my wife that if she was ever home alone at night and somebody breaks in, grab a gun and shoot unit she runs out of ammo, if they are still coming grab another gun and repeat until they aren't moving or she runs out of loaded guns.

I also told her that if they are still coming and she is out of loaded guns to run like hell since they are bullet proof

[Claymore]

The law is 18 inches. If I were cutting one down myself, I wouldn't cut under 18.5, just in case the feds see it.


Aye, laddie,,, That's why I wear a 22 inche kilt!
And, what's this crazy talk about cutting it down?:eek:

[ConstitutionHugger]

Originally Posted by birddog1 http://forums.hannity.com/firestorm/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?p=62884051#post62884051)
No, anything less than 18 or might even be 18.5 inches will land you a stay at Club Fed. Depending upon the gun and my own intentions (whether or not I might ever have to use the shotgun outside the home) I would even look at a longer barrell in the 20" range. A longer barrel may afford you more room for a magazine extension and thus another round or two.

My statement about a shorter barrell was in refrence to a hunting model which will usually come equiped with a 24"-28" barrel.

If a hunting model will do I would be you could find a higher grade used 870 for $250 or less.
The law is 18 inches. If I were cutting one down myself, I wouldn't cut under 18.5, just in case the feds see it.

Actually if you are willing to go thru the trouble of being legal and have a short barrel shotgun (<18in) all you have to do is fill out a form (form 2 I think), pay a $5 NFA tax and when you get your stamp in you can legally cut it as short as you wish.
Even tho that stupid ass law, and any other gun law for that matter, is a blatant violation of the 2nd Amendment, that's what you gotta do to stay "legal"

[Samm]

Aye, laddie,,, That's why I wear a 22 inche kilt!
And, what's this crazy talk about cutting it down?:eek:

We are talking about shot guns... not squirt guns. :razz:

[birddog1]

The law is 18 inches. If I were cutting one down myself, I wouldn't cut under 18.5, just in case the feds see it.

Yeah, I would stay on the safe side as well, since the ATF's tape measure has been known to wander depending upon the case they were wanting to make.

[ConstitutionHugger]

Yeah, I would stay on the safe side as well, since the ATF's tape measure has been known to wander depending upon the case they were wanting to make.

Very true, especially with the regieme that is in control now.