Did Mitt Romney being a Moron hurt his chances in 2008?

[CMcFreeze]

I saw a discussion on this on another site. Do you think Romney would have won the Republican nomination in 08 if he wasn't a Mormon? I don't think it was an issue but was wondering what others thought.

[Monster_Mom_22]

Yes, I do think Romney being a Mormon hurt his chances in 08. That, and being a liberal.

[johnrocks]

I don't think so, for me, it's all about issues.

[signcut]

I saw a discussion on this on another site. Do you think Romney would have won the Republican nomination in 08 if he wasn't a Mormon? I don't think it was an issue but was wondering what others thought.

Moron or Mormon...?

:))



It may certainly ahve played into how 'electable' he was seen as being... not necessarily a dealbreaker, but I would say that it hurt him in the eyes of his party.

[Vaard]

since alot of republicans base their vote on religious views, i can see how ronmey being viewed as "not a real christian" would hurt his chances.....


especially among the evangelicals.......

[DRS]

Only for those who use religion as a litmus test

He never struck me as a moron though

[VCaddy05]

It obviously was a obstical that did not help his chances. Yes I do believe that if he was a christian he may have gotten the nod. He certainly was a whole lot better then McCain IMO.

[brouski]

:lol: at thread title.

[tnt]

I think so. Not only do RW christians snub mormans, but I have to say, for me as an atheist lib, Romney and Huckebee - while I enjoy listening to both men and find them sincere politicians - hold religious views that make it imossible for me to seriously consider them.

[VCaddy05]

I think so. Not only do RW christians snub mormans, but I have to say, for me as an atheist lib, Romney and Huckebee - while I enjoy listening to both men and find them sincere politicians - hold religious views that make it imossible for me to seriously consider them.

why on earth would holding a religious view help/hinder your choice for president. I dont care if you are a devil worshiper, I would consider you if I liked your issues.
(just for clarification, i am not calling you a devil worshiper)

[johnrocks]

I think so. Not only do RW christians snub mormans, but I have to say, for me as an atheist lib, Romney and Huckebee - while I enjoy listening to both men and find them sincere politicians - hold religious views that make it imossible for me to seriously consider them.

That is why we need to keep religion out of politics as much as possible, it's too divisive to be able to run a country of over 300 million individuals.

[Jagergeist]

I think it hurt his chances since so many Republican voters get all wrapped around the axle about religion and who is the most pious. If he would have cleared the primaries I think it would have balanced out since many liberals and moderates don't care which religion you belong to.

[chip]

Did Mitt Romney being a Moron hurt his chances in 2008?

Being a moron would hurt most peoples chances.

[tnt]

why on earth would holding a religious view help/hinder your choice for president. I dont care if you are a devil worshiper, I would consider you if I liked your issues.
(just for clarification, i am not calling you a devil worshiper)

I admit it's a weakness of mine, and I am trying to work on it as a person. Really.

But if you tell me the earth is only 6,000 years old and you know this because the bible says so, there is no way on earth I could trust you to be Pres

Likewise, if you sincerely believe about 100 years ago an angle came down and wrote you a bible that included such gems as blacks were satan's children, then included a little clause that goes something like this "any rules set forth here can be over ridden by church leaders who have visions....", you know, I just can't take you seriously.

I know it's wrong. But hey, it's how I am wired.

[chip]

Romney is hurt more by his liberal tendencies.

[XTankLt]

I think so. Not only do RW christians snub mormans, but I have to say, for me as an atheist lib, Romney and Huckebee - while I enjoy listening to both men and find them sincere politicians - hold religious views that make it imossible for me to seriously consider them.

That it!!!! Snub the Mormans!!!! Are they related to the Romans? :think:


:)) :))


Damn, is everyone having a rough morning spelling today? :))

[Backwoods]

Did Mitt Romney being a Moron hurt his chances in 2008?
Hell No! It certainly seemed to help Obama.

[tnt]

That it!!!! Snub the Mormans!!!! Are they related to the Romans? :think:


:)) :))


Damn, is everyone having a rough morning spelling today? :))

eh....I can't spell on a good day...

[Miss America]

Sadly...it probably did...but, imagine having the choice between a Mormon and a Moron...I'd pick the Mormon every time.

[tnt]

That is why we need to keep religion out of politics as much as possible, it's too divisive to be able to run a country of over 300 million individuals.

Yeah, I'm so sick of the obligatory "candidate goes to church" pics every sunday and the professions of faith....

[don_p]

Did being a moron in terms of trying to run left of Kennedy for one campaign and to the right of Reagan in the next hurt him? I think so, but probably wouldn't have called him a moron over it. ;)

Did being a mormon hurt him? Probably to some degree but then again it certainly helped with the mormon crowd. Most Mormons are conservative and Republican.

[kaydahl]

It obviously was a obstical that did not help his chances. Yes I do believe that if he was a christian he may have gotten the nod. He certainly was a whole lot better then McCain IMO.

Romney is a Christian.

[chip]

It obviously was a obstical that did not help his chances.

Obviously?

Please back that up.

[kaydahl]

IMO what hurt Romney most was that he tends to speak too long. In the debates he had a problem getting his point across efficiently and would often run past his time limit. In today's world, you have to be articulate and efficient. You have to be able to sum up a position in a few words that stick in people's minds. Skills in this area lead to good first impressions, and Romney who wasn't nationally well known, really needed to catch people's attention.

The anti-LDS sentiment of the Christian conservatives didn't help. But obviously they don't have alot of power or McCain wouldn't have gotten the Republican nod over Huckabee.

[Stantz]

Did being a moron in terms of trying to run left of Kennedy for one campaign and to the right of Reagan in the next hurt him? I think so, but probably wouldn't have called him a moron over it. ;)

Did being a mormon hurt him? Probably to some degree but then again it certainly helped with the mormon crowd. Most Mormons are conservative and Republican.

yes it would have gotten him the solidaly liberal western stronghold of Utah - it would be nice to see that state go red for a change ;)

[Values]

Moron or Mormon...?

:))



It may certainly ahve played into how 'electable' he was seen as being... not necessarily a dealbreaker, but I would say that it hurt him in the eyes of his party.

Now if he were a liberal........:dance:

[chip]

IMO what hurt Romney most was that he tends to speak too long. In the debates he had a problem getting his point across efficiently and would often run past his time limit. In today's world, you have to be articulate and efficient. You have to be able to sum up a position in a few words that stick in people's minds. Skills in this area lead to good first impressions, and Romney who wasn't nationally well known, really needed to catch people's attention.

The anti-LDS sentiment of the Christian conservatives didn't help. But obviously they don't have alot of power or McCain wouldn't have gotten the Republican nod over Huckabee.


Romneys position shifting with the political winds depending on what office he was running for and who he was running against is what caused Romney trouble. It will continue to cause him trouble should he make another run.

[don_p]

Romneys position shifting with the political winds depending on what office he was running for and who he was running against is what caused Romney trouble. It will continue to cause him trouble should he make another run.

Agreed. I can't see him being electable.

[RedStatePaPa]

Is the op title a deliberate typo?

[selaw]

His Mormonism had an affect, but was unlikely the reason he lost the candidacy. Some say religion should have no affect on politics and other say it should (by saying Christians are silly for not believing evolution and then by misstating Christian beliefs). Initially, the country was founded with the idea that Christianity would be the core of political discourse. The ideas of all men are equal, rights are inalienable, freedom of speach and freedom of religion are themselves theological ideas. To remove religion from American policy is to remove the Constitution and Freedom itself. For the atheists: i have had many discussions (including with engineers and scientists) and done a fair amount of research over the years, having asked the question what evidence (sustainable evidence via the scientific method) says evolution occurred. Not one person can produce a single fact supporting evolution. An example: the only "evidence" of evolution is dating by placement of an object in the strata (the accuracy of which cannot begin to be verified) and carbon 14 testing (the inventer of which declared was inherently unreliable and which can be used, assuming any accuracy, only for objects less than 40,000 years old, yet is used to find objects millions of years old). Footprints of dinosaurs next to human footprints have been found. Ancient carvings of accurate depictions of dinosaurs and humans together have been found and verified as being several hundred years old. Christians talked of the Hitites for many years while athiests scoffed until proof emerged several years ago of the Hitite civilization. Christians talked of the earth having a single contentent which broke up at which athiests again scoffed, but this idea is now touted as an evolutionary scientific discovery.

[chip]

Footprints of dinosaurs next to human footprints have been found.

:hand:

[freddyboy]

Likewise, if you sincerely believe about 100 years ago an angle came down and wrote you a bible that included such gems as blacks were satan's children, then included a little clause that goes something like this "any rules set forth here can be over ridden by church leaders who have visions....", you know, I just can't take you seriously.

Being a Mormon didn't hurt his chances, ignorance like the above statements hurt his chances.

[PSBandit]

Maybe it was his maroon ties.

[Ex_Spy_Guy]

since alot of republicans base their vote on religious views, i can see how ronmey being viewed as "not a real christian" would hurt his chances.....


especially among the evangelicals.......


Uhhh, Mormons are from the Church of JESUS CHRIST, of Latter Day Saints.....

if your church say JESUS CHRIST, and someone says you arent christian....then they are the moron....

[selaw]

His Mormonism had an affect, but was unlikely the reason he lost the candidacy. Some say religion should have no affect on politics and other say it should (by saying Christians are silly for not believing evolution and then by misstating Christian beliefs). Initially, the country was founded with the idea that Christianity would be the core of political discourse. The ideas of all men are equal, rights are inalienable, freedom of speach and freedom of religion are themselves theological ideas. To remove religion from American policy is to remove the Constitution and Freedom itself. For the atheists: i have had many discussions (including with engineers and scientists) and done a fair amount of research over the years, having asked the question what evidence (sustainable evidence via the scientific method) says evolution occurred. Not one person can produce a single fact supporting evolution. An example: the only "evidence" of evolution is dating by placement of an object in the strata (the accuracy of which cannot begin to be verified) and carbon 14 testing (the inventer of which declared was inherently unreliable and which can be used, assuming any accuracy, only for objects less than 40,000 years old, yet is used to find objects millions of years old). Footprints of dinosaurs next to human footprints have been found. Ancient carvings of accurate depictions of dinosaurs and humans together have been found and verified as being several hundred years old. Christians talked of the Hitites for many years while athiests scoffed until proof emerged several years ago of the Hitite civilization. Christians talked of the earth having a single contentent which broke up at which athiests again scoffed, but this idea is now touted as an evolutionary scientific discovery.

[shinyranger]

I admit it's a weakness of mine, and I am trying to work on it as a person. Really.

But if you tell me the earth is only 6,000 years old and you know this because the bible says so, there is no way on earth I could trust you to be Pres

Likewise, if you sincerely believe about 100 years ago an angle came down and wrote you a bible that included such gems as blacks were satan's children, then included a little clause that goes something like this "any rules set forth here can be over ridden by church leaders who have visions....", you know, I just can't take you seriously.

I know it's wrong. But hey, it's how I am wired.

Since you have no real clue on his actual belief system (which you do not), it shouldn't be a factor in whether or not you vote for him in politics.

[VCaddy05]

Obviously?

Please back that up.

you honestly think it needs to be???

[freddyboy]

Agreed. I can't see him being electable.

In the quest to win the next presidential election, rich, white guys need not apply. Especially those that implemented universal health care as governor.

Unelectable this time around

[7426k]

Yes, being a moron is detrimental to your efforts at becoming president (though it's an obstacle that can be overcome)

Being a member of the church of latter day saints probably didn't help either.

[don_p]

Uhhh, Mormons are from the Church of JESUS CHRIST, of Latter Day Saints.....

if your church say JESUS CHRIST, and someone says you arent christian....then they are the moron....

I think many woud disagree. I understand that the Koran references Christ also, does that make them Christian?

The Christian Church as it is generally referenced to includes one set of scripture. They would consider those that add to it, false. You can argue all you want that they are wrong, but I doubt it will convince most in the main Christian denominations.

[don_p]

you honestly think it needs to be???

To state it as a given fact, it should be. I am not sure that it was that much of a hinderance. Mormons are the 4th largest religious group in the US according to their literature. He had a very high level of support from Mormons according to polling. Most Mormons tend to fall in the conservative wing of the Republican party. The only group that I think it hurt him with is Evangelicals. While most consider him a non Christian, they regularly vote for non Christians. So was it an obstacle? Possibly, but I would certainly hesitate to say it was a given.

[Late2TheParty]

Did Mitt Romney being a Moron hurt his chances in 2008?

It certainly didn't stop Sarah Palin from becoming a VP candidate ;)

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Did Mitt Romney being a Moron hurt his chances in 2008?

Best

Thread

Title

Ever

[freddyboy]

It certainly didn't stop Sarah Palin from becoming a VP candidate ;)

Nor did it hurt Obama from becoming president.

Nor did it hurt Biden from becoming vice president.

Nor did it hurt Pelosi from becoming speaker

Shall I go on?

[tnt]

Being a Mormon didn't hurt his chances, ignorance like the above statements hurt his chances.

Yeah, well, I understand calling my position ignorant.

But look for a minute from my perspective.

I am an atheist.

I don't think Jesus rose from the dead. I don't think Mohamad was anything special. I don't think Noah built an ark.

Further, I'm skeptical at best and outraged at worst re: the true goals of organized religion.

So mormonism, from the POV is extra prickly.

[Late2TheParty]

Nor did it hurt Obama from becoming president.

Nor did it hurt Biden from becoming vice president.

Nor did it hurt Pelosi from becoming speaker

Shall I go on?

Go ahead, go on!

[tnt]

Since you have no real clue on his actual belief system (which you do not), it shouldn't be a factor in whether or not you vote for him in politics.

Yeah, true. And perhaps if he was a candidate I would think about it like that.

But you know, the choice with him and huckabee to me goes something like this:

either they really do believe what they say they do, in which case, Huck believes the earth is 6,000 years old and Mitt thinks an angel visited a man a hundred years or so ago in New York State...which for me, makes me think you are crazy, or they DON't belive those things and they are just posing.

Now, I feel this way about ALL politicians who do the 'candidate is a man of faith!' and pose for pictures at church every sunday.

But the particular dynamics of these tw candidates stated beliefs is even harder for me to grapple with than say believing a man who lived 2,000 years ago came back to life.

Look, I think all religion is bunk, so maybe I should just refrain from these threads, but you know, I'm answering honestly.

[bigtwnvin]

Harry Reid is both a "moron" and a Mormon. His constituents don't seem to have a problem with either!

[hillplus]

I think many woud disagree. I understand that the Koran references Christ also, does that make them Christian?

The Christian Church as it is generally referenced to includes one set of scripture. They would consider those that add to it, false. You can argue all you want that they are wrong, but I doubt it will convince most in the main Christian denominations.

Romney is a Christian! He believes that Jesus Christ is his personal Savior and the Savior of the world. That is a pretty good indicator.

He is no moron, he is a brilliant man. Seeing some of the vitriol poured out on him for his religion, I would say that it hurt him. To what extent, we will never know.

He doesn't believe the earth is 6,000 years old, either.

[sideview]

since alot of republicans base their vote on religious views, i can see how ronmey being viewed as "not a real christian" would hurt his chances.....


especially among the evangelicals.......

I would not be to surprised that there is a higher percentage of liberals and democrats that base their vote on religious views, considering how often they belittle people of faith. Your broad proclamation of supposed republican intolerance and character only provides insight into your own.

[fava]

Being a moron didn't seem to hurt Obama in 2008. Of course, he had a larger base of sympathetic and like-minded voters.

[AHA]

I saw a discussion on this on another site. Do you think Romney would have won the Republican nomination in 08 if he wasn't a Mormon? I don't think it was an issue but was wondering what others thought.


If it was before it certainly won't be again after the monstrosity that this country "elected".

[AHA]

since alot of republicans base their vote on religious views, i can see how ronmey being viewed as "not a real christian" would hurt his chances.....


especially among the evangelicals.......

"Since a lot of democrats base their vote on atheist views". See how that sounds?

I can't see how you can say that without proof.

[AHA]

Being a moron would hurt most peoples chances.


Only if they're Republican. Look at Franken.

[AHA]

Hell No! It certainly seemed to help Obama.


Exactly! lol

[sideview]

I saw a discussion on this on another site. Do you think Romney would have won the Republican nomination in 08 if he wasn't a Mormon? I don't think it was an issue but was wondering what others thought.

I can not speak for others but I never once heard anyone refer to Romney’s religion except by the media early on in the race.

I could care less about a candidate’s religion as long as it is not their entire world, they are not on a mission to convert everyone or out to save our soles.

I do prefer that a candidate recognizes they are not all knowing and they have some sense of humility to the ego that a politician would normally have. These characteristics are more often found in people of faith and rarely found in politicians who aren’t.

I can say, I would have much preferred Romney over McCain as a candidate.

[drjoe1989]

I would say a little, but his flip-flopping hurt him a lot more.

[chip]

you honestly think it needs to be???

Obviously.

[kaydahl]

You're incorrect re Huckabee:

"I believe that the creation has a creator. I believe there is a God. And I believe God put this whole creative process in motion. How he did it and the time frame in which he did it, I honestly don't know." Mike Huckabee, 2008


Yeah, true. And perhaps if he was a candidate I would think about it like that.

But you know, the choice with him and huckabee to me goes something like this:

either they really do believe what they say they do, in which case, Huck believes the earth is 6,000 years old and Mitt thinks an angel visited a man a hundred years or so ago in New York State...which for me, makes me think you are crazy, or they DON't belive those things and they are just posing.

Now, I feel this way about ALL politicians who do the 'candidate is a man of faith!' and pose for pictures at church every sunday.

But the particular dynamics of these tw candidates stated beliefs is even harder for me to grapple with than say believing a man who lived 2,000 years ago came back to life.

Look, I think all religion is bunk, so maybe I should just refrain from these threads, but you know, I'm answering honestly.

[FOX Watcher]

Put it this way. Romney being a Mormon was a key reason why he didn't receive the nomination in 2008, and is still the same reason he won't receive the nomination in 2012. And personally, I think it's disgusting.

I will say this. If the Republican Party wishes to survive, the voters are going to drop this ridiculous concept of faith-based voting. Times are a changing around these parts, and the Evangelicals don't seem to want to change. That is actually holding back the Party.

When you have someone like Romney, who is far-more well-schooled on Economics, losing the nomination to a Christian candidate with less qualifications because of faith-based politics .... that's a problem.

Now, the problem I had with Romney is that clearly, he was trying to say what he had to say to get elected. And people didn't trust him. And I can understand that.

But religion and faith-based politics is actually what is hurting the party.

If the GOP actually became far more lax on Social Values, I can guarantee the party would be a lot more appealing to those who may be Socially Liberal, and have a far better chance of picking up more voters.

The GOP at this moment, should be thinking of a clear cut direction on where to take the Party. I don't see this happening, and rather see it as a Party without a true Leader with a clear path. Steele is a puppet and is the token Black guy in there simply so Republicans can put on a Dog and Pony Show and say "Hey, look at us. We aren't racist. Our Chair is Black."

Moving to the Center as far as Social Values, while maintaining a Fiscally Conservative platform is the way the GOP should move. Again, best chance of bringing more people into the Party.

[don_p]

Romney is a Christian! He believes that Jesus Christ is his personal Savior and the Savior of the world. That is a pretty good indicator.

He is no moron, he is a brilliant man. Seeing some of the vitriol poured out on him for his religion, I would say that it hurt him. To what extent, we will never know.

He doesn't believe the earth is 6,000 years old, either.

I don't know what he believes personally and don't really care. I don't think he is really a moron, but does some stupid stuff. I haven't really seen any evidence of his brillance.

What I have seen and care about very much is his swiftly changing views. And I don't like that.

[JohnRandolph]

Did Mitt Romney being a Moron hurt his chances in 2008?
Well, being a Moron didn't improve his chances any.

Best

Thread

Title

Ever

If not the best, its certainly in the top 5

[fwj60]

Romney's problem with social conservatives is that he is not trusted. In the past, he has soft pedalled social issue. People are wondering if he changes his positions for political convenience. I do think that Huckabee shares those doubts and that was the reason he stayed in the race so long. If Palin decides to run, it will be interesting to see if Huckabee gets in and risks splitting social conservatives and risk giving Romney the nomination. Huckabee has said he could decide not to run and endorse Palin.

Romney may have a good knowledge of economics and business but that does not mean he is unique. Maybe other candidates dont have fancy degrees but that doesn't mean anything. People like Palin and Jindel have run states and that certainly accounts for something. Todd and Sarah Palin have a fishing boat that they use for business purposes. It may not be as sexy as Romney's experience but it's still experience.

[McCoyFan]

I don't think so, for me, it's all about issues.

...it was about him forgetting he put his dog on top of the car while driving around...