This Girl is Dead soon

[notluzn]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,565560,00.html
A Florida judge has ruled a teenager from Ohio must return after running away to Florida in fear that her parents would harm her for converting from Islam to Christianity.

[brouski]

Hopefully not.

Has this girl ever said "My father told me he's going to kill me"?

[psyko kat]

when does she turn -18-?, she can legally be out on her own then....

[notluzn]

Hopefully not.

Has this girl ever said "My father told me he's going to kill me"?
Guess you missed all the other honor killing stories before here in our own back yard. Look it up bro. Get back to us then...

[Theranna]

This again? Please... her murderous father allowed her to have a Facebook page AND to be a cheerleader. They moved from their home to a predominantly Christian country afraid of their faith for HER and now she says this?

And let's put the shoe on the other foot for a second... if a Christian girl of Anglo-Saxon descent had run away from home to join a mosque in another state, what would have happened? No history of physical abuse or violence in the family except for her saying her dad will beat her to death... would your reaction be the same? I doubt it...

[notluzn]

when does she turn -18-?, she can legally be out on her own then....

Funny how we're supposed to protect children but actually through them into the fire and dance around it.

[livia]

I think we have to be realistic and see a difference between a teenager running away due to fear, and her actually being threatened with death.

From the photo in the link, she looks a fairly Westernised girl which would indicate a more liberally minded upbringing - we don't seem to be talking about a burka wielding father.

[notluzn]

This again? Please... her murderous father allowed her to have a Facebook page AND to be a cheerleader. They moved from their home to a predominantly Christian country afraid of their faith for HER and now she says this?

And let's put the shoe on the other foot for a second... if a Christian girl of Anglo-Saxon descent had run away from home to join a mosque in another state, what would have happened? No history of physical abuse or violence in the family except for her saying her dad will beat her to death... would your reaction be the same? I doubt it...

During the dinosaur days.. Blah blah blah blah blah Liberals wackos

[EnchantedFrog]

Hopefully not.

Has this girl ever said "My father told me he's going to kill me"?
Looks like she certainly anticipates it:

In an emotional six-minute interview with WFTV in Florida, Rifqa, who met Lorenz through an online Facebook group, said she expects to be killed if she is forced to return to Ohio.

[malnila]

Guess you missed all the other honor killing stories before here in our own back yard. Look it up bro. Get back to us then...

That certainly happened here in Los Angeles a couple years ago. An Islamic father beat/stoned his daughter to death because she was becoming too Westernized. Heck, he moved his family here.

[notluzn]

That certainly happened here in Los Angeles a couple years ago. An Islamic father beat/stoned his daughter to death because she was becoming too Westernized. Heck, he moved his family here.
Never.. Lies... Never Happens... Lies. :)

[JediMindTrick]

And let's put the shoe on the other foot for a second... if a Christian girl of Anglo-Saxon descent had run away from home to join a mosque in another state, what would have happened? No history of physical abuse or violence in the family except for her saying her dad will beat her to death... would your reaction be the same? I doubt it...

Exactly. The right would be screaming christian discrimination from the rafters if the reverse had happened. Then they would blame Obama. Then they would start name calling liberals - oh wait that already happened in this thread to you just for suggesting this.

[DLaw911]

Hopefully not.

Has this girl ever said "My father told me he's going to kill me"?What is to prevent other Muslims from killing her?

[ThrowCop]

Methinks there is more to this girl's story...

[Theranna]

During the dinosaur days.. Blah blah blah blah blah Liberals wackos

Mmmmm, mature discourse peppered with insults... thank God liberals are immature.

Let me know when I can disturb you with facts...

[JediMindTrick]

Mmmmm, mature discourse peppered with insults... thank God liberals are immature.

Let me know when I can disturb you with facts...

Just don't disturb him with countless stories of modern day christian atrocities perpetrated on children. The difference is that non christians like me don't stereotype all christians as being that way whereas the muslim bashers take the atrocities of a few and stereotype all muslims as being like that.

[chip]

Exactly. The right would be screaming christian discrimination from the rafters if the reverse had happened. Then they would blame Obama. Then they would start name calling liberals - oh wait that already happened in this thread to you just for suggesting this.

Hardly.

Id be reticent to return any child to a situation that she legitimately fears will kill her. Regardless of their religion.

Any normal person would.

[Hoobeedoo Bejesus]

This is just silly.

That girl needs to be grounded and kept off the Internet until she is 25.

[Dual867PowerMac]

Just don't disturb him with countless stories of modern day christian atrocities perpetrated on children. The difference is that non christians like me don't stereotype all christians as being that way whereas the muslim bashers take the atrocities of a few and stereotype all muslims as being like that.
It's not bashing.

Although there were eight mosques closer to their home, the father chose Noor Islamic Cultural Center in Dublin, Ohio, which has ties to terrorist organizations.

Evidence:


• The leader of the mosque, Dr. Hany Saqr, was previously an imam for another area mosque at the same time the largest known Al-Qaeda cell in the U.S. since 9/11 was operating out of the mosque.

• A former Islamic scholar associated with The Noor Center is Dr. Salah Sultan, a cleric that has been photographed with terrorist leaders designated as such by the U.S. government.

• A number of extremist speakers have been featured at recent Noor Center events who are on record making statements in support of violence, terrorism and extremism.

• A nationwide FBI investigation into missing Somali youths (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99919934) has focused on Columbus as one possible hotspot for terrorist recruitment, as the city with the second largest Somali population in the country.


Source (http://www.orlandolawyer.tv/documents/Noor%20Memo%20of%20Law.pdf)



Now, does anyone still wish to deny the danger to this young woman is very real?

[Theranna]

Yes... me

[Dual867PowerMac]

Yes... me
When will you realize the dangers of radical Islam? When Rifqa Bary is in a coffin?

[Dragon1963]

This again? Please... her murderous father allowed her to have a Facebook page AND to be a cheerleader. They moved from their home to a predominantly Christian country afraid of their faith for HER and now she says this?

And let's put the shoe on the other foot for a second... if a Christian girl of Anglo-Saxon descent had run away from home to join a mosque in another state, what would have happened? No history of physical abuse or violence in the family except for her saying her dad will beat her to death... would your reaction be the same? I doubt it...

You'd be surprised at the contradictory things people of any religion will do. I know of several Christian sects that don't bat an eye when kids listen to rock and roll, but go ape **** over the kids dancing to waltzes or mingling with the opposite sex in public.

As to your second point; a lot of people I know, myself included, would be just as outraged. Then again I also realize how stupid people can be when they're suddenly confronted with a child who changes religions on them.

[Theranna]

When will you realize the dangers of radical Islam? When Rifqa Bary is in a coffin?

Oh enough with the dramatic speech and words... I suspect this is more about a teenage girl trying to find a way to usurp her parents' authority than about radical Islam. And I've seen nothing here to point to anything else.

[Dual867PowerMac]

Oh enough with the dramatic speech and words... I suspect this is more about a teenage girl trying to find a way to usurp her parents' authority than about radical Islam. And I've seen nothing here to point to anything else.
Even the fact that her father belongs to an "Islamic center" with ties to al-Qaeda?

[Theranna]

You'd be surprised at the contradictory things people of any religion will do. I know of several Christian sects that don't bat an eye when kids listen to rock and roll, but go ape **** over the kids dancing to waltzes or mingling with the opposite sex in public.

As to your second point; a lot of people I know, myself included, would be just as outraged. Then again I also realize how stupid people can be when they're suddenly confronted with a child who changes religions on them.

There are too many omissions in this story for me to feel comfortable with. Rifqa wants to be a Christian, ok. She says her father would kill her... meh... Fathers and families in honor killing can pass for regular families but they have their limits, and allowing your daughter to be a cheerleader and to have a Facebook profile, that's way outside those limits.

I also question the motives of this man who drew her out of her parents' home and state in order to guide her conversion. Why couldn't he redirect her to a house of worship in her county or in her state? Why did she have to run so far away? Why not counsel her toward some sort of conciliation with her family instead of making such a decisive break with them?

I broke away from my family in terms of religion a long, long time ago... ever since I went to high school. I rejected all forms of organized religion as a matter of fact. And you know what, 23 years later, my parents are still trying to get me back into the fold. Won't work, except for midnight mass, weddings and funerals. My whole family, who's extremely religious, is trying to get me back into the fold and into a church before my soul is lost forever. I know how intense it can get and frankly, there were moments when I wanted to get out to avoid the attempts at conversion. There are moments when I did.

Now Christians don't have the reputation of radical Muslims but they're not golden either. And that Floridian gives me the creeps.

[Theranna]

Even the fact that her father belongs to an "Islamic center" with ties to al-Qaeda?

Yep.

[JediMindTrick]

Now Christians don't have the reputation of radical Muslims but they're not golden either. And that Floridian gives me the creeps.

Some do. There are radical christians that beat kids. There are ones that molest children, the break off sect of the LDS church that practices polygamy for instance. There are ones that engage in snake handling. But you don't see people using their actions and painting all christians that way you do with how some want to paint all Islamists by the actions of the radical ones.

What you have in this case is a runaway girl who "claims" her parents will kill her. As a police officer I hear that claim all the time by runaways and its almost always complete BS. In this case there is no evidence that the father would actually do something like this. In fact he seems to be a very mild Islamic given he allowed his daughter to be a cheerleader.

[Theranna]

Some do. There are radical christians that beat kids. There are ones that molest children, the break off sect of the LDS church that practices polygamy for instance. There are ones that engage in snake handling. But you don't see people using their actions and painting all christians that way you do with how some want to paint all Islamists by the actions of the radical ones.

Exactly. Oh, I like this JediMindTrick...

[jeepers]

I think we have to be realistic and see a difference between a teenager running away due to fear, and her actually being threatened with death.

.


What does that even mean?

[Hadassah]

Many girls are afraid to tell their parents they are pregnant for fear that dad "will kill" them. Is the threat a real one? Not usually.



I truly hope and pray that if there is any chance that the girl family would commit an "honor killing", the attention focused on this would cause them to back off.

[Safiel]

The girl is merely being returned to the jurisdiction of Ohio, which has already stated that she will be placed in foster care for the time being, NOT returned to her family.

From a legal standpoint, the Judge is correct in doing this. Ohio is the proper state of jurisdiction of this matter, not Florida. She was brought illegally across state lines.

It will be up to an Ohio Judge as to what happens next.

[Ninjacorpse]

Well I would hope that any such claims of physical harm, or other abuse of children are taken seriously regardless of what their parents might believe. Their are bad people out their, and they come in many different forms. I hope this whole thing is just blown out of proportion and that her and her family can make amends.

[doodle5]

I was taught freedom of religion when growing up. When a group became too hateful my mom and I changed forever.

Since marriage I have seen to much prejudiced and lack of love. I took seminary course that really taught me the Bible and a couple of God fearing Bible theologians. I can't believe how much I learned from them!! What a blessing they were!!

I now study Greek and have a Greek English interlinear a blessing.
There are many resources to teach so much.

1. F F BRUCE
2. JOHN W MONTGOMERY
3. BRUCE METZGER
And a host of others!!

Any one have her address? I will pray for her!!
Christ's presence is always with me no matter where I am and her as well!!
Attacks mostly by church members shallow minded not Christ minded.

Carlene

[doodle5]

I am praying for her safety!!

I returned to College years ago had fun getting acquainted with new friends and learning.
Carlene

[livia]

What does that even mean?

I should have said her "perceived" fear. But Hasdassah in post 30 puts it better than me.

[Dragon1963]

There are too many omissions in this story for me to feel comfortable with. Rifqa wants to be a Christian, ok. She says her father would kill her... meh... Fathers and families in honor killing can pass for regular families but they have their limits, and allowing your daughter to be a cheerleader and to have a Facebook profile, that's way outside those limits.

I also question the motives of this man who drew her out of her parents' home and state in order to guide her conversion. Why couldn't he redirect her to a house of worship in her county or in her state? Why did she have to run so far away? Why not counsel her toward some sort of conciliation with her family instead of making such a decisive break with them?

I broke away from my family in terms of religion a long, long time ago... ever since I went to high school. I rejected all forms of organized religion as a matter of fact. And you know what, 23 years later, my parents are still trying to get me back into the fold. Won't work, except for midnight mass, weddings and funerals. My whole family, who's extremely religious, is trying to get me back into the fold and into a church before my soul is lost forever. I know how intense it can get and frankly, there were moments when I wanted to get out to avoid the attempts at conversion. There are moments when I did.

Now Christians don't have the reputation of radical Muslims but they're not golden either. And that Floridian gives me the creeps.

Here's the part you seem to have missed she's already converted to Christianity. She did so a couple of years ago. Parent's tend to react when their children change religions. Some look to their religion's practices to see how to deal with it. Some look to what their customs related to their religion say. There are many cultures with "honor killing" histories and many of them are in Islamic regions of the world. Her father may have let her have a Facebook account and her be a cheerleader, but that may have been okay so long as she was a Muslim. Remember not all Islamic cultures mandate burkas or head scarves.

Trust me I know how bad Christians can be and I know how bad Muslims can be. That is why I would like to know more about this girl's father and the Islamic center he attends prayer at. As has been mentioned it is under investigation for ties to Al Qaeda. Doesn't mean he's involve in anything illegal, but he could still be influenced by its more radical leadership. Or worse, they could do the "honor killing" themselves.

Truthfully many like that Floridian will give you the creeps, but that doesn't mean they will be creepy.

[Dragon1963]

Some do. There are radical christians that beat kids. There are ones that molest children, the break off sect of the LDS church that practices polygamy for instance. There are ones that engage in snake handling. But you don't see people using their actions and painting all christians that way you do with how some want to paint all Islamists by the actions of the radical ones.

What you have in this case is a runaway girl who "claims" her parents will kill her. As a police officer I hear that claim all the time by runaways and its almost always complete BS. In this case there is no evidence that the father would actually do something like this. In fact he seems to be a very mild Islamic given he allowed his daughter to be a cheerleader.

It may be BS, but its better to find out first than just dismiss it. As for him being of the very mild Islamic persuasion; a child changing religions will often trump a parent's logic. He may have been fine with her being a cheerleader, but becoming a Christian is a whole different ball of wax.

[JediMindTrick]

It may be BS, but its better to find out first than just dismiss it. As for him being of the very mild Islamic persuasion; a child changing religions will often trump a parent's logic. He may have been fine with her being a cheerleader, but becoming a Christian is a whole different ball of wax.

Um you do realize that they had a court hearing. These things aren't just flips of the coin. Her claims would have been looked into before the judge made his ruling.

And did you actually read the new story? She isn't being sent back to be with her father, rather she's being sent back to be in foster care where authorities will again look into her claims.

[JediMindTrick]

Here's the part you seem to have missed she's already converted to Christianity. She did so a couple of years ago.

And now several years later Dad suddenly is going to kill her for it. Not at the time she converted but several years later. Yeah that makes sense.

[angelicmadrigal]

As for him being of the very mild Islamic persuasion; a child changing religions will often trump a parent's logic.

And some parents accept it and move on. I think the assumption that the family isn't capable f that SIMPLY because they are pratice Islam is what is TRULY BS.

[markdido]

What is to prevent other Muslims from killing her?

We have Muslims in Florida too. Why would she be safer here?

Also, I asked this in another thread and never got an answer.

As I understand it, she converted to Christianity 4 years ago. Why wasn't she killed then or since?

[Buffalo]

This again? Please... her murderous father allowed her to have a Facebook page AND to be a cheerleader. They moved from their home to a predominantly Christian country afraid of their faith for HER and now she says this?

And let's put the shoe on the other foot for a second... if a Christian girl of Anglo-Saxon descent had run away from home to join a mosque in another state, what would have happened? No history of physical abuse or violence in the family except for her saying her dad will beat her to death... would your reaction be the same? I doubt it...
A 55 year old stranger from another state encouraging and helping an underage girl leave her parents, without their knowledge, through facebook, is being supported. Too ****ed up.

[Buffalo]

The girl is merely being returned to the jurisdiction of Ohio, which has already stated that she will be placed in foster care for the time being, NOT returned to her family.

From a legal standpoint, the Judge is correct in doing this. Ohio is the proper state of jurisdiction of this matter, not Florida. She was brought illegally across state lines.

It will be up to an Ohio Judge as to what happens next.
Yep.

[Beccaria]

Just don't disturb him with countless stories of modern day christian atrocities perpetrated on children. The difference is that non christians like me don't stereotype all christians as being that way whereas the muslim bashers take the atrocities of a few and stereotype all muslims as being like that.

This is news to me. Please show me:

1.) Where in the New Testament that Christians are commanded to, or even permitted to, kill somebody for not holding to their beliefs.

2.) Where this practice is regularly adhered to by mainstream evangelical Christians.

[Greyclouds]

When will you realize the dangers of radical Islam? When Rifqa Bary is in a coffin?

Hmm... do I detect fear-mongering here?


The grand, grand majority of honor killings take place because of sexual pretenses. Women are killed because of perceived sexual infidelity (which is even more disgusting because raped women are considered to be "at fault" for these types of infidelity).

This is all based on the intense patriarchal society that pervades some Middle Eastern cultures and the fact that female virginity is very much prized by said cultures. ANY lose of virginity plays into the family's honor, because traditions assert that proof of virginity must be provided after wedding nuptials.

There is no basis for honor killings in the Koran.



Now, having said all that, has this girl been accused of sexual infidelity? If so, and if her family is Arab/Afghani (it is not, from my recollection), then yes, she is at risk in a general statistical sense.

[Floydian]

a 55 year old stranger from another state encouraging and helping an underage girl leave her parents, without their knowledge, through facebook, is being supported. Too ****ed up.

+1

[Beccaria]

There is no basis for honor killings in the Koran. .There is no forbidding of it, either.

[Greyclouds]

There is no forbidding of it, either.

*Sigh*

There's no forbidding of wearing g-string bikinis in the Bible. Also pole-dancing is not specifically mentioned as well.

[Beccaria]

*Sigh*

There's no forbidding of wearing g-string bikinis in the Bible. Also pole-dancing is not specifically mentioned as well.

Non sequitur to contexual inference.

[Beccaria]

Addendum: let me clarify my response. The Bible does not specificially forbid G-Strings, per se. It does however, forbid public nakedness.

[Greyclouds]

Addendum: let me clarify my response. The Bible does not specificially forbid G-Strings, per se. It does however, forbid public nakedness.

Oh, actually after your response I decided to scan the Bible for honor killing prohibitions and sadly the English translation of Deuteronomy chapter 22 (specifically verses 13-22) fails to do so.

[ThrowCop]

Oh, actually after your response I decided to scan the Bible for honor killing prohibitions and sadly the English translation of Deuteronomy chapter 22 (specifically verses 13-22) fails to do so.ouch...

[supreme_war_Pig]

Oh enough with the dramatic speech and words... I suspect this is more about a teenage girl trying to find a way to usurp her parents' authority than about radical Islam. And I've seen nothing here to point to anything else.

And with all of the attention on the case, does anybody really think that she is still in danger?

[JediMindTrick]

This is news to me. Please show me:

1.) Where in the New Testament that Christians are commanded to, or even permitted to, kill somebody for not holding to their beliefs.

2.) Where this practice is regularly adhered to by mainstream evangelical Christians.

1) Ah a cherry picker christian who only believes in the parts of the bible he wants to. Sorry but the Old testament counts too especially since many religions do hold to it.

2) I answered this question already. Though I give you credit for cutting my post out of context. I already said it was fringe christians, and gave example, and that its wrong to use them to stereotype all christians.

[Sceptic]

This again? Please... her murderous father allowed her to have a Facebook page AND to be a cheerleader. They moved from their home to a predominantly Christian country afraid of their faith for HER and now she says this?

And let's put the shoe on the other foot for a second... if a Christian girl of Anglo-Saxon descent had run away from home to join a mosque in another state, what would have happened? No history of physical abuse or violence in the family except for her saying her dad will beat her to death... would your reaction be the same? I doubt it...

I'm sorry.

I'm a die-hard atheist of the kind that makes Richard Dawkins seem like an indecisive, namby-pamby soccer-playing wimp, and there is a massive difference between the two scenarios you present.

A Christian teenager converting to Islam is usually allowed to do so, with some serious parental disapproval. Most Christians only pay lip-service to the more grisly penaltied demanded by the Old Testament.

A Muslim teenager converting to Christianity - or even, for example, a Sunni having a Shia boyfriend - regularly ends up chopped into pieces at the bottom of a canal. Killed by her father.

If you disbelieve this, look at any UK news website and check the latest headlines for the latest so-called 'honour killing'.

You really think that the two are treated by their own communities in an equal way?

[Sceptic]

Hmm... do I detect fear-mongering here?


The grand, grand majority of honor killings take place because of sexual pretenses. Women are killed because of perceived sexual infidelity (which is even more disgusting because raped women are considered to be "at fault" for these types of infidelity).

This is all based on the intense patriarchal society that pervades some Middle Eastern cultures and the fact that female virginity is very much prized by said cultures. ANY lose of virginity plays into the family's honor, because traditions assert that proof of virginity must be provided after wedding nuptials.

There is no basis for honor killings in the Koran.



Now, having said all that, has this girl been accused of sexual infidelity? If so, and if her family is Arab/Afghani (it is not, from my recollection), then yes, she is at risk in a general statistical sense.

I agree with your premise - most of it is down to an antiquated and patriarchal view of the world. Just one problem.

She will be accused of sexual impropriety, regardless of whether she did it or not. That's usually the way as it offers a convenient excuse. The truth will be the first victim; she will be the second.

[angelicmadrigal]

The truth will be the first victim; she will be the second.

I suppose with your amazing psychic powers you have also managed to get this weeks lottery numbers as well.

You can't even logically deduce that this girl is in any real danger because there is NO evidence of that. You are simply projecting your stereotype and expecting it to be true.

[Dragon1963]

Um you do realize that they had a court hearing. These things aren't just flips of the coin. Her claims would have been looked into before the judge made his ruling.

And did you actually read the new story? She isn't being sent back to be with her father, rather she's being sent back to be in foster care where authorities will again look into her claims.

Yes, I read it. But the judge in Florida is sending her back because its Ohio ball to play with. I guess your just too jaded to look at things from the otherside and give the possibility that she's telling the truth. Personally at this point they should keep her in foster until she turns 18 and she can say good riddance and go where she wants to.

[ThrowCop]

Yes, I read it. But the judge in Florida is sending her back because its Ohio ball to play with. I guess your just too jaded to look at things from the otherside and give the possibility that she's telling the truth. Personally at this point they should keep her in foster until she turns 18 and she can say good riddance and go where she wants to.Maybe they should determine if she lying...

Teens have been known to do so.

This thing has a stench to it. I believe there is a lot more to the story.

[Dragon1963]

And now several years later Dad suddenly is going to kill her for it. Not at the time she converted but several years later. Yeah that makes sense.

And why did she hide the fact that she had converted from her family?

[Dragon1963]

And some parents accept it and move on. I think the assumption that the family isn't capable f that SIMPLY because they are pratice Islam is what is TRULY BS.

I don't assume anything. I go with what I know about human nature and those who accept are better humans than others. Religion has a history of trumping common sense and acceptance when it comes down to it.

[Dragon1963]

Maybe they should determine if she lying...

Teens have been known to do so.

This thing has a stench to it. I believe there is a lot more to the story.

Yeah, the stench of people not wanting both sides of the story. Or being stuck on hyperbole.

[ThrowCop]

Yeah, the stench of people not wanting both sides of the story. Or being stuck on hyperbole.So far, I have only one side.

I would like to hear both.

[Dragon1963]

So far, I have only one side.

I would like to hear both.

Considering no ones heard from the girl's parents recently shows, IMO, that someone is coaching them to keep quiet.

[ThrowCop]

Considering no ones heard from the girl's parents recently shows, IMO, that someone is coaching them to keep quiet.Assumptions can be dangerous. And I wonder how many have actually tried to get their side? I doubt it has the same anti-muslim sensationalism to it...

[Dragon1963]

Assumptions can be dangerous. And I wonder how many have actually tried to get their side? I doubt it has the same anti-muslim sensationalism to it...

Maybe. Maybe not. I know enough that usually parents will be trying to get their side out in these situations, unless someone is coaching them to keep quiet to avoid them damaging their side of things.

[Va-Oh]

Oh enough with the dramatic speech and words... I suspect this is more about a teenage girl trying to find a way to usurp her parents' authority than about radical Islam. And I've seen nothing here to point to anything else.


I guess time will tell.

[smyrna]

This again? Please... her murderous father allowed her to have a Facebook page AND to be a cheerleader. They moved from their home to a predominantly Christian country afraid of their faith for HER and now she says this?

And let's put the shoe on the other foot for a second... if a Christian girl of Anglo-Saxon descent had run away from home to join a mosque in another state, what would have happened? No history of physical abuse or violence in the family except for her saying her dad will beat her to death... would your reaction be the same? I doubt it...

Commit her to a psychiatric ward?:mrgreen:

[angelicmadrigal]

Religion has a history of trumping common sense and acceptance when it comes down to it.
That doesn't mean it's true in every case or even most. I know plenty of people of varying faiths that have rejected the religion they were brought up with and their families got over it.

[ThrowCop]

Maybe. Maybe not. I know enough that usually parents will be trying to get their side out in these situations, unless someone is coaching them to keep quiet to avoid them damaging their side of things.I personally doubt that I would want my personal business tried in the court of BS public opinion.

You could very well be right but I would not rely on the evidence at hand to come to a conclusion.

[Dragon1963]

That doesn't mean it's true in every case or even most. I know plenty of people of varying faiths that have rejected the religion they were brought up with and their families got over it.

No it doesn't. But to ignore religion's possible effect or in this case the effect of converting to another, is to be disingenuous and ignore the possible impact.

[angelicmadrigal]

No it doesn't. But to ignore religion's possible effect or in this case the effect of converting to another, is to be disingenuous and ignore the possible impact.

if there was OTHER evidence I might agree, but to use tthe actions of others uninvolved with the case at hand as the ONLY evidence is just pathetic to me.

[Dragon1963]

if there was OTHER evidence I might agree, but to use tthe actions of others uninvolved with the case at hand as the ONLY evidence is just pathetic to me.

Then stick with your narrow look at this issue. I'm looking at all the possibilities not just what I personally believe in. That means I'm taking into account that she might be lying, telling the truth, been lead to believe she's in danger, etc. I really want to know what her father has to say and there has been very little from the parents in this whole story. That worries me more than what's actually been in the news. It should worry those who believe the girl is lying too.

The parents are being too quiet and that puts up some major warning signs for me.

[JediMindTrick]

Then stick with your narrow look at this issue. I'm looking at all the possibilities not just what I personally believe in. That means I'm taking into account that she might be lying, telling the truth, been lead to believe she's in danger, etc. I really want to know what her father has to say and there has been very little from the parents in this whole story. That worries me more than what's actually been in the news. It should worry those who believe the girl is lying too.

The parents are being too quiet and that puts up some major warning signs for me.

Gosh imagine a set of parents who don't want to try their case in the press. Believe it or not, there are people out there that don't like living Jerry Springer type lives in the public eye.

[angelicmadrigal]

Gosh imagine a set of parents who don't want to try their case in the press. Believe it or not, there are people out there that don't like living Jerry Springer type lives in the public eye.

I know seriously if my kid was STUPID enough to run off with some random strangers she met on facebook, I wouldn't be too happy to be showing my face around either.

[sgdp]

I am wary of that girl. Sounds like the story of millions of runaways...only she's milking the Islam and peoples' prejudices for all it's worth.

[blackcatrun]

This again? Please... her murderous father allowed her to have a Facebook page AND to be a cheerleader. They moved from their home to a predominantly Christian country afraid of their faith for HER and now she says this?

And let's put the shoe on the other foot for a second... if a Christian girl of Anglo-Saxon descent had run away from home to join a mosque in another state, what would have happened? No history of physical abuse or violence in the family except for her saying her dad will beat her to death... would your reaction be the same? I doubt it...

Father wont relative will.

This girls a gonner.

[JediMindTrick]

I am wary of that girl. Sounds like the story of millions of runaways...only she's milking the Islam and peoples' prejudices for all it's worth.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner folks.

[nortman]

When will you realize the dangers of radical Islam? When Rifqa Bary is in a coffin?
We'll never know if it happens, though. I'm sure if she is killed, the only network who would cover it would be Fox. Then our little liberal friends can just say that it is a "nonstory".

Let's get this straight. Do I really think that this girl will be killed? No, I don't. Do I think her story should be investigated? Yes. And, I agree with TC when he said that he thinks there is a bit more to her story than she is letting on to the public.

[Greyclouds]

I agree with your premise - most of it is down to an antiquated and patriarchal view of the world. Just one problem.

She will be accused of sexual impropriety, regardless of whether she did it or not. That's usually the way as it offers a convenient excuse. The truth will be the first victim; she will be the second.

Very true (and, as a tangent, good to see you again :D).

While at first I was hesitant to accept Dworkin's premise that every society has attempted to first subjugate women, more and more I come to believe that (at least in antiquity) this was the rule and not the exception. Women were nothing more than property and trophies in more societies than I care to mention.

... and this is coming from a guy who believed that the movie Fight club was the best portrayal of how feminized society confuses and alienates men!

[Greyclouds]

So far, I have only one side.

I would like to hear both.

Agreed.

[Buffalo]

Considering no ones heard from the girl's parents recently shows, IMO, that someone is coaching them to keep quiet.
I just saw an interview with them last night on HN. And the father admits he threw a laptop at one point when he found out that she was having these secret facebook interactions. Nothing else. And so far, no investigation has come up with anything more than this in terms of the parents.

[Buffalo]

There have been a few honor killings in this country. There have been far more domestic violence murders in this country that had nothing to do with Islam. The girl is being put into foster care while the authorities continue their investigation. If there is any evidence that this girl's life was threatened by her family, then action should be taken. At this point, there is nothing beyond the girl's claims, which come from under the wing of a 55 year old who coerced her to flee to Florida without her family's knowledge.

Here's the thing. If she felt that threatened, 911 seems a much more logical and easy solution. And I still cannot understand all of you who have no problem with a 55 year old encouraging and facilitating a 17 year old girl's running away from her parents to a State thousands of miles away. A normal person would encourage her to go to the authorities, not flee the state to live with he and his family. That's just ****ed.

[SherlockHolmes]

google the swan case in seattle wa readers digest 60 minutes they screwed them up

they lied

ive heard the more cases they get the more federal dollars they get

[Dragon1963]

I just saw an interview with them last night on HN. And the father admits he threw a laptop at one point when he found out that she was having these secret facebook interactions. Nothing else. And so far, no investigation has come up with anything more than this in terms of the parents.

So he wasn't keeping an eye on her internet activity like he should have been. A lot of parents are like that. Although most don't go throwing the laptop around. Anger is something that can be scary in a parent, especially if they start throwing things. I wonder if he said something he regrets now that he's calmed down.

[historynut]

And now several years later Dad suddenly is going to kill her for it. Not at the time she converted but several years later. Yeah that makes sense.

Did her father know she converted two years ago.

[historynut]

There are too many omissions in this story for me to feel comfortable with. Rifqa wants to be a Christian, ok. She says her father would kill her... meh... Fathers and families in honor killing can pass for regular families but they have their limits, and allowing your daughter to be a cheerleader and to have a Facebook profile, that's way outside those limits.


I went to school with a girl in the 60's she was a cheerleader and Homecoming Queen. She was not allowed to date and at the Homecoming dance her mother was with her.

As for limits changing religions is the worst thing you can do.

[Dragon1963]

I went to school with a girl in the 60's she was a cheerleader and Homecoming Queen. She was not allowed to date and at the Homecoming dance her mother was with her.

As for limits changing religions is the worst thing you can do.

I've already made this point and they don't want to hear it.

[Theranna]

Really? Changing religions? Funny, my parents would've been much more upset by drug or alcohol abuse. But hey, that's me.

[Old_Mil]

And let's put the shoe on the other foot for a second... if a Christian girl of Anglo-Saxon descent had run away from home to join a mosque in another state, what would have happened? No history of physical abuse or violence in the family except for her saying her dad will beat her to death... would your reaction be the same? I doubt it...

Of course not. Then again, the other foot doesn't have a recent history of engaging in multiple honor killings in various states for a variety of reasons. Given that, well, someone who had the same reaction wouldn't be all that smart, would they now.

[JediMindTrick]

Of course not. Then again, the other foot doesn't have a recent history of engaging in multiple honor killings in various states for a variety of reasons. Given that, well, someone who had the same reaction wouldn't be all that smart, would they now.

The other foot does have a history of molesting girls. Of forcing young teen girls into marriages with much older men. Of ritualized abuse. Of allowing children to die because the parents were only willing to pray for their children to get better. But those are fringies I'm sure your going to say which is exactly the point. Your stereotyping all muslims by the bad actions of some which means then if we were to play by your rules it would be okay for us to stereotype all christians by your fringies.

[Dragon1963]

Really? Changing religions? Funny, my parents would've been much more upset by drug or alcohol abuse. But hey, that's me.

Then you need to look into religious history a little deeper.

[Dragon1963]

The other foot does have a history of molesting girls. Of forcing young teen girls into marriages with much older men. Of ritualized abuse. Of allowing children to die because the parents were only willing to pray for their children to get better. But those are fringies I'm sure your going to say which is exactly the point. Your stereotyping all muslims by the bad actions of some which means then if we were to play by your rules it would be okay for us to stereotype all christians by your fringies.

Your also forgetting that mainstream Christians openly speak out against most of their fringe groups without fear of retaliation from most of those fringes.

IMO, Islam is held hostage by its violent fringes. So its not surprising that many would think all Islam is like its fringes.

[angelicmadrigal]

Then you need to look into religious history a little deeper.

Does not necessarily apply in this case. There's no evidence suggesting the family is STRICT followers of Islam, or practitioners of what you call "historical" violent retaliation for religiously unacceptable behavior.

[angelicmadrigal]

So its not surprising that many would think all Islam is like its fringes.

That's their own misguided delusion then, with very little basis in reality.

[historynut]

Really? Changing religions? Funny, my parents would've been much more upset by drug or alcohol abuse. But hey, that's me.

You may want to check the laws in Moslem counties. To convert or to help someone to convert gets you killed.

The worst sin possible is to convert to another religion.

There are a number of Moslem counties that let women mix with men, get jobs, show a lot of skin etc but still have laws about converting to another religion.

[JediMindTrick]

Your also forgetting that mainstream Christians openly speak out against most of their fringe groups without fear of retaliation from most of those fringes.


Only because they are forced to by the law. It took the law to stop mainstream mormons from practicing polygamy. It took threats of lawsuits for the prophet of mormon church to suddenly have a "vision from God" that told him it was time to let blacks in. If the christian churches were left to their own devices it wouldn't be long before they were back to their murdering barbaric ways of the 17th century and before (Inquisitions, Witch Trials, etc so don't try to deny they were that way).

[Dragon1963]

Only because they are forced to by the law. It took the law to stop mainstream mormons from practicing polygamy. It took threats of lawsuits for the prophet of mormon church to suddenly have a "vision from God" that told him it was time to let blacks in. If the christian churches were left to their own devices it wouldn't be long before they were back to their murdering barbaric ways of the 17th century and before (Inquisitions, Witch Trials, etc so don't try to deny they were that way).

I call ******** on this. By the end of the 17th century most Christian religions had given up the stuff you mentioned. By the end of the 19th century only a very few Christian religions believed slavery was okay. The 20th century was when the lawsuits started coming. What you've said about the Christian Churches in this post has been historical fiction for the last 300 years. If you believe that what you've said is true; then you really don't know anything about modern mainstream Christianity.

[pattyk]

when this story first came out, it said that several other muslims will kill her if her father doesn't. don't know where I read that though.