Mac Snow Leopard bug deletes user data!!

[Ignotus]

I found this quite funny considering how Mac fanbois and Mac advertisments constantly claim their OS "just works" and only PCs have problems like this...

Apparently, Snow Leopard (aka Mac OS X 10.6) has a habit of wiping out "home directories" when a user logs in to a Guest account following an upgrade from Apple's previous operating system: just Leopard (aka Mac OS X 10.5). Typically carrying the name of the user, the home directory includes all the standard user file folders, including Documents, Downloads, Music, Picture, and more.

"I had the Guest account enabled on my MacBook Pro," one user wrote on September 3, just after the release of Snow Leopard. "I accidentally clicked on that when I went to log in. It took a few minutes to log in, then after I had logged out of that account and back into mine, my [entire] home directory had been wiped. All of doc, music, etc. gone."

Another user was hit just this weekend. "Nooooo!!! This morning I had access to Guest Account and than all my data were lost!!!" he wrote. "I had 250GB of data without backup and I lost everything: years and years of documents, pictures, video, music!!! Is it possible to recover something? Please help me!!!!"
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/12/snow_leopard_data_eating_bug/


Apple's data loss issue is also yet another problem related to its most recent operating-system release. Snow Leopard has been plagued with bugs since its release, including problems with the Finder hanging or crashing, incompatibility with certain apps, and the AirPort connection dropping.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-10373064-260.html?tag=newsLatestHeadlinesArea.0

[Dual867PowerMac]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-10373064-260.html

[Ignotus]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-10373064-260.html

Funny, I quoted that same article in my original post lol. It doesn't help your case at all.

[Quid]

What is the point of this thread other than to take a poke at mac users.?

this what I am hearing from you on this matter “OS X suffers from some bugs, therefore it must suck!”

pzzt Pot to Kettle, you are black, repeat, you are black. over. pzzt

[Dragon1963]

What is the point of this thread other than to take a poke at mac users.?

this what I am hearing from you on this matter “OS X suffers from some bugs, therefore it must suck!”

pzzt Pot to Kettle, you are black, repeat, you are black. over. pzzt

Because, Mac users like thumb their noses at those of us who know better than to believe their OS is invulnerable to bugs. Its fun to say "I told you so" every now and again. :cool:

[Dual867PowerMac]

Funny, I quoted that same article in my original post lol. It doesn't help your case at all.
Well, actually, I did it for a reason: to get you to read the entire article. Specifically, the second paragraph, which states: "We are aware of the issue, which occurs only in extremely rare cases, and we are working on a fix."

Also, the article states that it doesn't appear to be a widespread problem. I believe Apple.

I've never said OS X was perfect. I tell you this: Leopard was ten times worse than Snow Leopard when it was released and some software developers still haven't released Leopard-compatible updates. Off the top of my head, ClearDock is one such application. Safari Extender is another.

[Quid]

Because, Mac users like thumb their noses at those of us who know better than to believe their OS is invulnerable to bugs. Its fun to say "I told you so" every now and again. :cool:

Oh, I’ve never said that OS X was bug free. I have run into a couple, but the bug mention in the OP is rare and is only affecting a tiny percentage of users. It’s not like Microsoft didn’t just loose a bunch of Sidekick users’ data. :cool:

[Dragon1963]

Oh, I’ve never said that OS X was bug free. I have run into a couple, but the bug mention in the OP is rare and is only affecting a tiny percentage of users. It’s not like Microsoft didn’t just loose a bunch of Sidekick users’ data. :cool:

I'll bet the bug isn't so rare. I'll bet the bug is in a good number of copies and Apple isn't telling just how pervasive it is. After all Apple doesn't want to look like Microsoft.

Yep, but it wasn't a bug that killed the Sidekick servers.

[sgdp]

I don't think I know anybody silly enough to say a new OS would have zero chance of bugs. Sounds like a straw man to me.

:eh:

[Ignotus]

Well, actually, I did it for a reason: to get you to read the entire article. Specifically, the second paragraph, which states: "We are aware of the issue, which occurs only in extremely rare cases, and we are working on a fix."

Also, the article states that it doesn't appear to be a widespread problem. I believe Apple.

No, the only reason you put that article up was because you thought Apple's statement helps your cause, it doesn't. You also didn't realize that I had posted that link, that's why you were so quick to the draw. Major software developers will always try to downplay or dismiss bugs like this, no matter how severe, it happens all the time. Data loss bugs are the very worst kind of bug, nothing is more valuable on a computer than a user's data.

The part that makes it bad though, is as usual, it took Apple quite some time before they would admit this was a problem. They are also slow to implement a fix.

[Ignotus]

What is the point of this thread other than to take a poke at mac users.?

this what I am hearing from you on this matter “OS X suffers from some bugs, therefore it must suck!”

pzzt Pot to Kettle, you are black, repeat, you are black. over. pzzt

You can try to spin all you want but that wasn't the point. Mac fanbois such as yourself are constantly telling people that PCs have these kinds of problems and Macs are relatively bug free and "just work".

[Ignotus]

I don't think I know anybody silly enough to say a new OS would have zero chance of bugs. Sounds like a straw man to me.

:eh:

Yup, your entire post not only sounded like a strawman, it was. And FYI, there are plenty of Mac users that think Mac OS is nearly bug free. No one was making the claim of "zero chance" but you.

[blackcatrun]

Oh, I’ve never said that OS X was bug free. I have run into a couple, but the bug mention in the OP is rare and is only affecting a tiny percentage of users. It’s not like Microsoft didn’t just loose a bunch of Sidekick users’ data. :cool:

There a MAC with OS9 in the other room.
It's not hooked up and is not being used.
The broswers is very complicated to the point it's a nightmare. Addons like java are extremely complicated.
Down load java...is my system a OS9 or it it OSX9? let's find out...oh my password protected. You got java?, well down load this first to make java work after Ive already downloaded java...still wont work well you gotta make ajustments. hmmmmmmm....6 choices each messes it up more than the last "undo" hahahahahahahaha dream on.

That machines a piece of **** no wonder it was dumped for 40 bucks.

[blackcatrun]

Yup, your entire post not only sounded like a strawman, it was. And FYI, there are plenty of Mac users that think Mac OS is nearly bug free. No one was making the claim of "zero chance" but you.


There are no old MAC's because they are rotten.
FROM EXPERIANCE MACS are junk.
Wireless in them is in constant fail,fail, not reconized...so I wired it.
It still had a problem seeing it's own hardware.

The whole thing was joke...even with the handbook and such.

[enki]

There a MAC with OS9 in the other room.
It's not hooked up and is not being used.
The broswers is very complicated to the point it's a nightmare. Addons like java are extremely complicated.
Down load java...is my system a OS9 or it it OSX9? let's find out...oh my password protected. You got java?, well down load this first to make java work after Ive already downloaded java...still wont work well you gotta make ajustments. hmmmmmmm....6 choices each messes it up more than the last "undo" hahahahahahahaha dream on.

That machines a piece of **** no wonder it was dumped for 40 bucks.

OS9? I hope you realize that OS9 hasn't been supported for almost 10 years... and there is no such thing as OSX9... and it seems you're blaming the computer for you not remembering what your password is.

[Nevarwinter]

I think I ruined my nieces dreams of joining the fedora wearing cool crowd with the Macs.

I told her dad that macs "just cost more" and it's not that they're special in any way other than having to use microsoft software to have compatibility with the rest of the world when doing reports and such. I also heard that they were using some extremely forward-thinking individuals that are developing something they call a "mouse with two buttons".

So he asked me about virus protection. I gave him the truth... When macs become a bigger target, they'll get more viruses. The iPhone was cracked THE SAME DAY it came out. People just don't care enough to write viruses for 2% of the personal computer market.

I use a mac at school for photoshop and I see absolutely no difference in what it does vs what my PC does other than take right click away from me. Don't get me wrong, there are some neat programs out for the mac, but they're not worth 500-700 dollars more.

[mtdim]

I feel bad for the poor guy who lost 250 GB of data, but honestly, who has that much data with no backup?

I've seen some pretty bad bugs in my day but, I have to say, a bug that wipes the entire home directory is pretty brutal. The take home lesson here is, I think, always back up your data.

[Beccaria]

I'll take Apple's rare bugs over Microsoft's regular malfunctions any day.

[Ex_Spy_Guy]

I have a MacTell book pro with poo leopard on it...and all i can say is.....

I cant wait for 7 to go gold so i can go native with something that isn CRapple.

[James Juno]

I feel bad for the poor guy who lost 250 GB of data, but honestly, who has that much data with no backup?

I've seen some pretty bad bugs in my day but, I have to say, a bug that wipes the entire home directory is pretty brutal. The take home lesson here is, I think, always back up your data.

Finally, some sense. All the OS fanboi garbage aside, keeping the integrity of your data secure is your responsibility. External backup drives, DVD copies, etc. Do NOT rely on any operating system to protect something that's important to you.

[spinach]

I feel bad for the poor guy who lost 250 GB of data, but honestly, who has that much data with no backup?

I've seen some pretty bad bugs in my day but, I have to say, a bug that wipes the entire home directory is pretty brutal. The take home lesson here is, I think, always back up your data.

the guy's an idiot.
DVD's don't cost much
and it would only take 60 or so.

I have THREE external hard drives for backup, and ALWAYS have at least two CD's or DVD's of important stuff.

Btw, if anyone loses data, [or anything else]
try "Zero Assumption Recovery"
the free version allows 4 directories [of unlimited size] to be recovered
the full version can get everything.

As long as you don't overwrite anything, you can often salvage almost all that you lose.
It's saved my butt a few times from a failure to backup.

[spinach]

I've played around with all kinds of OS's but never with a Mac.

When I finally get sick of windows.....like when XP and Vista are no longer supported..
I will migrate to Kubuntu, Ubuntu, and/or maybe Mint Ubuntu.

Linux is really close to a major move.
All they need is a little more tweaking and they will start to smash up microbrain.

[mtdim]

the guy's an idiot.
DVD's don't cost much
and it would only take 60 or so.

I have THREE external hard drives for backup, and ALWAYS have at least two CD's or DVD's of important stuff.

Btw, if anyone loses data, [or anything else]
try "Zero Assumption Recovery"
the free version allows 4 directories [of unlimited size] to be recovered
the full version can get everything.

As long as you don't overwrite anything, you can often salvage almost all that you lose.
It's saved my butt a few times from a failure to backup.

Hopefully he's learned is lesson. Backing data up is so easy to to, but many people don't understand how vulnerable data on a computer can be until they get burned big time. Seeing how hard drives are costing less and less (you don't have to plunk down to much cash to get a terabyte hard drive), there's absolutely no reason not to backup data regularly.

[Quid]

I'll bet the bug isn't so rare. I'll bet the bug is in a good number of copies and Apple isn't telling just how pervasive it is. After all Apple doesn't want to look like Microsoft.

Yep, but it wasn't a bug that killed the Sidekick servers.

Got some evidence to back that up, kiddo?

[mtdim]

I've played around with all kinds of OS's but never with a Mac.

When I finally get sick of windows.....like when XP and Vista are no longer supported..
I will migrate to Kubuntu, Ubuntu, and/or maybe Mint Ubuntu.

Linux is really close to a major move.
All they need is a little more tweaking and they will start to smash up microbrain.

Linux is already ready to take over, technologically speaking; there is absolutely no reason businesses could not switch to a distribution like Ubuntu if they wanted to save some money. But to be honest, I'm not sure we'll ever see it happen. Microsoft is just so entrenched in business environments. Who knows.

[Ex_Spy_Guy]

the guy's an idiot.
DVD's don't cost much
and it would only take 60 or so.

I have THREE external hard drives for backup, and ALWAYS have at least two CD's or DVD's of important stuff.

Btw, if anyone loses data, [or anything else]
try "Zero Assumption Recovery"
the free version allows 4 directories [of unlimited size] to be recovered
the full version can get everything.

As long as you don't overwrite anything, you can often salvage almost all that you lose.
It's saved my butt a few times from a failure to backup.

10.6 really isnt that bad....its like windows 98 with all the cutesy stardock flim flam installed on it.

[Quid]

No, the only reason you put that article up was because you thought Apple's statement helps your cause, it doesn't. You also didn't realize that I had posted that link, that's why you were so quick to the draw. Major software developers will always try to downplay or dismiss bugs like this, no matter how severe, it happens all the time. Data loss bugs are the very worst kind of bug, nothing is more valuable on a computer than a user's data.

The part that makes it bad though, is as usual, it took Apple quite some time before they would admit this was a problem. They are also slow to implement a fix.

My god, the faux-outrage in your post is palpable. The number of people affected by this bug are tiny yet you seem to want to make this into a world shattering event. “Oh noes, Apple has teh bugz! pwned!”

This seems to be a recurring theme for you, the need to denigrate other people’s choice in operating system in order to validate your own. What’s the matter, Linux not mainstream enough for you yet? Tired of seeing Microsoft get b****-slapped by the media?

[spinach]

Hopefully he's learned is lesson. Backing data up is so easy to to, but many people don't understand how vulnerable data on a computer can be until they get burned big time. Seeing how hard drives are costing less and less (you don't have to plunk down to much cash to get a terabyte hard drive), there's absolutely no reason not to backup data regularly.

yeah, you can get an external 1 TB drive probably for under 250 bucks.
especially if you shop online.

I also have a bunch of various sized flash USB drives...
so I can transport just about anything from my laptop to my desktop, and back again.

one of these days I'm gonna set up a home network and put one of the external disks hooked up to a server. That way I can just move files here and there and not even need the flash USBs except for when I travel.

With an 8gb USB, I can take all my "goodies" wherever I go, and all my programs.
the flash USB drive is one of the coolest inventions ever

[spinach]

10.6 really isnt that bad....its like windows 98 with all the cutesy stardock flim flam installed on it.

I'd like to mess around on a mac someday, and see how it works.

I use virtual machines sometimes--
on this laptop I have now-- it has Vista

and I have three virtual machines also using microsoft VPC 2007

an 98 install
a ME install
and a DOS install

I play around with the old school stuff sometimes.
People used to denigrate the Me system, but when I had it on my first compaq, a 12XL500 laptop-- I NEVER had any issues-
it never crashed, and never froze up. Though folks rate it low, I liked it as an OS.

[Beccaria]

In the time I've gone through one Mac, I've gone through FOUR Windows computers.

I've used both and can say without hesitation that Mac is the superior system.

[Ignotus]

My god, the faux-outrage in your post is palpable. The number of people affected by this bug are tiny yet you seem to want to make this into a world shattering event. “Oh noes, Apple has teh bugz! pwned!”

The fact you are basing your "tiny" fact off an Apple press release is laughable. That would be like me quoting Bill Gates to prove that a Microsoft bug didn't affect many people. I'm not sure how many people the bug effected, but I'm not trusting Apple to give me accurate results, nor would I trust Microsoft in a similar situation.

Software and hardware companies constantly do everything in their power to dismiss and or minimize anything negative that is written about them.

And FYI, that wasn't the only Snowleopard bug listed in my OP! The bugs associated with the update are numerous.


This seems to be a recurring theme for you, the need to denigrate other people’s choice in operating system in order to validate your own. What’s the matter, Linux not mainstream enough for you yet? Tired of seeing Microsoft get b****-slapped by the media?

No faux-outrage here, and the only recurring theme is your delusional blind support for the Mac. I'm just pointing that the Mac isn't some "super OS" like their advertisements and fanbois claim. I also don't think it would have to be bug free to be a good OS. But in recent years, response time for bug and vulnerability fixes on the Mac have been quite slow, and that is a problem. However, my main dig against the Mac is that it is overhyped and overpriced.

[Nevarwinter]

Linux is already ready to take over, technologically speaking; there is absolutely no reason businesses could not switch to a distribution like Ubuntu if they wanted to save some money. But to be honest, I'm not sure we'll ever see it happen. Microsoft is just so entrenched in business environments. Who knows.

I love evangelists. They are easily countered with anecdotes. Businesses use what's best, what's most compatible. I'm not a computer novice. I'm working on a degree in computer science, am currently writing a program for a company on the side, and I am here to say that I felt that I needed to be cool so I installed Ubuntu on a second computer at home.

Biggest mistake I ever made in my life. I really did give it a chance. I really did. Used it for plain old computer usage at first then the problems started. You know, problems that you get when you want to do anything other than use the word processor. I liked it, so I wanted to install a C++ compiler. Easy enough, right? Get a free one and go to work.

L
O
L

Fat chance. I had a "bloodshed" compiler disc but I needed a binary. Just hop on in to the ubuntu forums and voila.... uhm... huh... wth? 4 hours later, I had no binary to run bloodshed. Didn't deter me though! You can program in C++ through their built in thing. Just need a binary for that. Hop on into that section and voila! ...uhm...huh?...wth? 2 hours later, I was uninstalling and putting in my 2nd copy of Windows XP.

Guess what? My Bloodshed C++ compiler loaded in a little under 25 seconds and I was ready to go!

[mtdim]

I love evangelists. They are easily countered with anecdotes. Businesses use what's best, what's most compatible. I'm not a computer novice. I'm working on a degree in computer science, am currently writing a program for a company on the side, and I am here to say that I felt that I needed to be cool so I installed Ubuntu on a second computer at home.

Biggest mistake I ever made in my life. I really did give it a chance. I really did. Used it for plain old computer usage at first then the problems started. You know, problems that you get when you want to do anything other than use the word processor. I liked it, so I wanted to install a C++ compiler. Easy enough, right? Get a free one and go to work.

L
O
L

Fat chance. I had a "bloodshed" compiler disc but I needed a binary. Just hop on in to the ubuntu forums and voila.... uhm... huh... wth? 4 hours later, I had no binary to run bloodshed. Didn't deter me though! You can program in C++ through their built in thing. Just need a binary for that. Hop on into that section and voila! ...uhm...huh?...wth? 2 hours later, I was uninstalling and putting in my 2nd copy of Windows XP.

Guess what? My Bloodshed C++ compiler loaded in a little under 25 seconds and I was ready to go!

So there is no linux binary for the particular c++ compiler you wanted to use? Gee, linux must suck. :rolleyes: Believe it or not, every piece of software isn't available on every OS. And I'm pretty sure Bloodshed Dev-C++ isn't a compiler, it's an IDE which is usually bundled with a compiler. It's not Ubuntu's fault that Bloodshed doesn't make a Linux version.

BTW, if you wanted a c++ compiler in Ubuntu you could have typed "sudo aptitude install build-essential" (w/o quotes) at the terminal. That's all it takes to install the GNU c++ compiler. It literally could not be easier. And what does installing compilers have to do with whether or not Ubuntu could be used in a business environment?

[EDIT]

Wait, was your post sarcastic?

[Quid]

The fact you are basing your "tiny" fact off an Apple press release is laughable. That would be like me quoting Bill Gates to prove that a Microsoft bug didn't affect many people. I'm not sure how many people the bug effected, but I'm not trusting Apple to give me accurate results, nor would I trust Microsoft in a similar situation.

Software and hardware companies constantly do everything in their power to dismiss and or minimize anything negative that is written about them.

And FYI, that wasn't the only Snowleopard bug listed in my OP! The bugs associated with the update are numerous.

The fact that you are assuming the problem is wide spread without evidence is laughable.

Also, it was CNET that first reported the bug to be rare.

No faux-outrage here, and the only recurring theme is your delusional blind support for the Mac. I'm just pointing that the Mac isn't some "super OS" like their advertisements and fanbois claim. I also don't think it would have to be bug free to be a good OS. But in recent years, response time for bug and vulnerability fixes on the Mac have been quite slow, and that is a problem. However, my main dig against the Mac is that it is overhyped and overpriced.

When did I blindly support OSX? I freely admitted that it has it’s share of bugs, and if you know my opinions on the subject so well, you would remember that in the past I revealed that I was a window’s user for most of my computing history.

I have used both systems and found that OS X is superior in suiting my needs.

If you think Mac’s are "overhyped and overpriced” then don’t buy one. Simple as that. No need to constantly trash users of other OS’s simply because you don’t like them. To use a biblical analogy, don’t point out the splinter in your brother’s eye when you have a log in your own.

[Nevarwinter]

So there is no linux binary for the particular c++ compiler you wanted to use? Gee, linux must suck. :rolleyes: Believe it or not, every piece of software isn't available on every OS. And I'm pretty sure Bloodshed Dev-C++ isn't a compiler, it's an IDE which is usually bundled with a compiler. It's not Ubuntu's fault that Bloodshed doesn't make a Linux version.

BTW, if you wanted a c++ compiler in Ubuntu you could have typed "sudo aptitude install build-essential" (w/o quotes) at the terminal. That's all it takes to install the GNU c++ compiler. It literally could not be easier. And what does installing compilers have to do with whether or not Ubuntu could be used in a business environment?

[EDIT]

Wait, was your post sarcastic?

I wish it were that easy. I should have known that difficult tasks like using free software couldn't be done by the greatest OS ever. They just don't want to sully themselves with anything written for Windows, huh? LOL I tried everything, literally 2 hours to make the terminal able to take C++.

The ubuntu forums are the reason why there are now web designers.

Do you have the Ubuntu build 6.5.4 compiled by Joe D-Bag between 2:54pm and 7:00am on January the 16th or the Ubuntu build 6.5.4a compiled between 2:55 and 3:00pm on July the 2nd, last friday during the storm in New Orleans by the guy with the straw hat? Please specify which build you are looking for. OMG ur such a n00b! Why don't u kno th1s?

Yeah, easy stuff. My granny could do it. :rolleyes:

Linux server architecture is coming along, mainly because it's free and it's decent. I won't knock the server side of it. The OS...you can have it and be cooler than me. I'm fine with it.

[Dragon1963]

Got some evidence to back that up, kiddo?

Its called mass production.

For a bug to be on a disk in the first place its got to be in the program to begin with. So with the mass production of Snow Leopard there will be hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of disks with the bug on them. The question Apple should be asking is where were the disks produced and how did Snow Leopard at that location get the bug if it was clean?

If I was a Mac user, I'd be worried as hell.

[Quid]

Its called mass production.

For a bug to be on a disk in the first place its got to be in the program to begin with. So with the mass production of Snow Leopard there will be hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of disks with the bug on them. The question Apple should be asking is where were the disks produced and how did Snow Leopard at that location get the bug if it was clean?

If I was a Mac user, I'd be worried as hell.

of course the bug will be on all copies of the disk. I was referring to people actually encountering the bug in the wild, as it the steps needed to trigger it. so far there have been very few people affected by it.

[mtdim]

I wish it were that easy. I should have known that difficult tasks like using free software couldn't be done by the greatest OS ever. They just don't want to sully themselves with anything written for Windows, huh? LOL I tried everything, literally 2 hours to make the terminal able to take C++.

Programs built for Windows don't run on Linux, and programs built for Linux don't run on Windows. It doesn't mean Linux or Windows sucks, that's just the way it is. Like I said, typing "sudo aptitude install build-essential" is all you have to do to install the GNU c++ compiler. It sucks that no one on the Ubuntu forums thought to tell you that, but that's all it takes.


Linux server architecture is coming along, mainly because it's free and it's decent. I won't knock the server side of it. The OS...you can have it and be cooler than me. I'm fine with it.

If you don't like Ubuntu, that's fine. Different strokes for different folks. But it is just plain wrong to say it is difficult to install a c++ compiler on Ubuntu. It just sounds as though you got some bad advice.

[CaptainPike]

Its called mass production.

For a bug to be on a disk in the first place its got to be in the program to begin with. So with the mass production of Snow Leopard there will be hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of disks with the bug on them. The question Apple should be asking is where were the disks produced and how did Snow Leopard at that location get the bug if it was clean?

If I was a Mac user, I'd be worried as hell.

Do you really think Apple has a million users??

[Tulsa]

OMG, they found a bug in a MAC and suddenly the clones are out if force to make fun of it. You dorks really need to get a life.

[Dragon1963]

of course the bug will be on all copies of the disk. I was referring to people actually encountering the bug in the wild, as it the steps needed to trigger it. so far there have been very few people affected by it.

So far we haven't heard about many. But I'm betting that we'll hear about more before Apple and Macophiles will admit to it being a real screw up.

[Dragon1963]

Do you really think Apple has a million users??

:shhh: If your talking Ipods then yes.

[Dragon1963]

OMG, they found a bug in a MAC and suddenly the clones are out if force to make fun of it. You dorks really need to get a life.

Microsoft would be raked over the coals for a bug like this. Apple should be raked over the coals, because a bug that deletes personal data is nothing to be holding back about.

Besides, if it knocks the ego of Macbots down a notch then its worth it. ;)

[Quid]

Do you really think Apple has a million users??

yes, Apple routinely sells more than a million Macs per year.

Apple shipped 2,496,000 Macs during the June quarter, representing 41 percent unit growth and 43 percent revenue growth over the same period from a year ago. It was the fourth time in five quarters that Apple sold a record number of Macs. Previously, the bar was set during the first quarter of 2008 when Apple sold a little more than 2.3 million Macs.

source: http://www.macworld.com/article/134604/2008/07/appleearnings.html


EDIT: Apple sold a total of 9.71 million macs in 2008

Source: http://idaconcpts.com/2008/12/05/a-not-so-simple-question-how-many-mac-users-are-there-in-the-world/

[CaptainPike]

yes, Apple routinely sells more than a million Macs per year.

Who's buying them?

[Quid]

Who's buying them?

Are you trying to imply that the same >1 million Mac users are buying at least two macs every year?

seriously, use your head.

[CaptainPike]

The only place I ever see Macs are in schools. Nobody else bothers with them.

[Quid]

The only place I ever see Macs are in schools. Nobody else bothers with them.

Then you probably don’t spend much time in public place where people use their portable computers, like coffee shops, or internet cafés. I see them in the wild all the time. As a matter of fact, I have had more than a few people ask me how I like my MacBook Pro because they are considering getting one too. 9 times out of 10 I see them a few weeks later with a shiny new mac.Then again anecdotal doesn’t count.

next time you find yourself in the vicinity of an Apple store, count how many people walk out with new macs and do the math.

[Quid]

Here is a good article analyzing market share statistics in regards to an installed user base of OS X
http://idaconcpts.com/2008/12/05/a-not-so-simple-question-how-many-mac-users-are-there-in-the-world/

That article figures that there 22 Million Users as a conservative estimate and 50 Million as a generous estimate.

[Quid]

Simple answer to the question of how many mac users there are.

Let me google that for you:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+many+mac+users+are+there%3F

:razz:

[Dragon1963]

Here is a good article analyzing market share statistics in regards to an installed user base of OS X
http://idaconcpts.com/2008/12/05/a-not-so-simple-question-how-many-mac-users-are-there-in-the-world/

That article figures that there 22 Million Users as a conservative estimate and 50 Million as a generous estimate.

Fascinating. I guess Apple should be glad that the Ipod and Iphone are such big sellers or they'd be out of business.

[CaptainPike]

Then you probably don’t spend much time in public place where people use their portable computers, like coffee shops, or internet cafés. I see them in the wild all the time. As a matter of fact, I have had more than a few people ask me how I like my MacBook Pro because they are considering getting one too. 9 times out of 10 I see them a few weeks later with a shiny new mac.Then again anecdotal doesn’t count.

next time you find yourself in the vicinity of an Apple store, count how many people walk out with new macs and do the math.

Ohhhhh. Coffee shops and internet cafes. Where else could I find a Mac user??? Maybe if I stopped Prius owners at random, I might find a Mac in their car? Maybe if Woodstock were to go on today, I could find a lot of Apple users there too. I bet Peta uses Macs.

If I see people coming out of an APPLE STORE with Apple products... obviously that means Apple is doing great. There could be a few people walking out of the Apple store with potato chips and ho ho's, but I'll ignore those.

[Quid]

Fascinating. I guess Apple should be glad that the Ipod and Iphone are such big sellers or they'd be out of business.


I believe iPods and iPhones only make up a small portion of their revenue, Macs are the meat and potatoes of their earnings, hence why they can afford to sell their operating system and other software for lower prices than their competitors, they make up for the lost profit in hardware.

[Ignotus]

The fact that you are assuming the problem is wide spread without evidence is laughable.

Also, it was CNET that first reported the bug to be rare.

I didn't assume it was widespread, I specifically said I didn't know but that I wouldn't trust Apple as a source on this issue. You have some serious reading comprehension issues.

And even if it only effects a small percentage of Mac users, it is a horrible bug that should have been fixed long ago. That's the main problem with Macs, they have issues like this and don't fix them for months.


When did I blindly support OSX? I freely admitted that it has it’s share of bugs, and if you know my opinions on the subject so well, you would remember that in the past I revealed that I was a window’s user for most of my computing history.

I'm not in the mood to parse all your previous posts in Mac related threads, but one example is when you were making false claims about them not being much more expensive than an equivalent PC. I debunked your claims with current quoted prices and you suddenly stopped posting on the topic in that thread. Then, when a new thread comes up you keep coming back and repeating the same claims that were refuted previously without ever addressing the facts I presented.



If you think Mac’s are "overhyped and overpriced” then don’t buy one. Simple as that. No need to constantly trash users of other OS’s simply because you don’t like them.

When a significant number of Mac users and advertisements stop making blatantly false claims I will stop pointing out stuff like this. Can you seriously tell me with a straight face that the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" ads aren't blatant propaganda?

To use a biblical analogy, don’t point out the splinter in your brother’s eye when you have a log in your own.

The analogy applies to you in this case, but not me. You have had no problems in the past saying negative things about Windows, now you complain when someone posts some facts about the Mac.

I'm not using these arguments to make Microsoft look better, I'm simply debunking common urban myths about Macs not having the same types of problems you find in a typical PC.

[CaptainPike]

I believe iPods and iPhones only make up a small portion of their revenue, Macs are the meat and potatoes of their earnings, hence why they can afford to sell their operating system and other software for lower prices than their competitors, they make up for the lost profit in hardware.

They more than make up for any "lost profit" by charging 5 times more for their hardware, but they still aren't selling very many Macs.

[CaptainPike]

I didn't assume it was widespread, I specifically said I didn't know but that I wouldn't trust Apple as a source on this issue. You have some serious reading comprehension issues.

And even if it only effects a small percentage of Mac users, it is a horrible bug that should have been fixed long ago. That's the main problem with Macs, they have issues like this and don't fix them for months.




I'm not in the mood to parse all your previous posts in Mac related threads, but one example is when you were making false claims about them not being much more expensive than an equivalent PC. I debunked your claims with current quoted prices and you suddenly stopped posting on the topic in that thread. Then, when a new thread comes up you keep coming back and repeating the same claims that were refuted previously without ever addressing the facts I presented.





When a significant number of Mac users and advertisements stop making blatantly false claims I will stop pointing out stuff like this. Can you seriously tell me with a straight face that the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" ads aren't blatant propaganda?



The analogy applies to you in this case, but not me. You have had no problems in the past saying negative things about Windows, now you complain when someone posts some facts about the Mac.

I'm not using these arguments to make Microsoft look better, I'm simply debunking common urban myths about Macs not having the same types of problems you find in a typical PC.

You know if Microsoft made advertisement where they constantly compared themselves to Apple and pointed out all of the flaws with Macs while ignoring their own, Apple fanboys would be squeeling like stuck hogs.

[Quid]

I didn't assume it was widespread, I specifically said I didn't know but that I wouldn't trust Apple as a source on this issue. You have some serious reading comprehension issues.
It was easy to assume that you were implying that Apple was lying about the bug being rare. Is that my fault or yours?

And even if it only effects a small percentage of Mac users, it is a horrible bug that should have been fixed long ago. That's the main problem with Macs, they have issues like this and don't fix them for months.

Um, Apple says they have known about the issue are are working to fix it. Do you think they are lying there too?




I'm not in the mood to parse all your previous posts in Mac related threads, but one example is when you were making false claims about them not being much more expensive than an equivalent PC. I debunked your claims with current quoted prices and you suddenly stopped posting on the topic in that thread. Then, when a new thread comes up you keep coming back and repeating the same claims that were refuted previously without ever addressing the facts I presented.


As I recall, you (or it may have been someone else) gave a quote for a Dell computer with different specifications and when I configured the Dell to have equal features (or a close as possible) it was $50 more expensive.




When a significant number of Mac users and advertisements stop making blatantly false claims I will stop pointing out stuff like this. Can you seriously tell me with a straight face that the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" ads aren't blatant propaganda?

Aren’t ALL commercials blatant propaganda? What kind advertisements would they be if they didn’t claim their product was better than the competitor’s?

Oh, but I see you have no problem with MS lying about Mac prices in their commercials, but Apple poking fun at windows crashing a lot (since it does) is unforgivably false.



The analogy applies to you in this case, but not me. You have had no problems in the past saying negative things about Windows, now you complain when someone posts some facts about the Mac.

Wow, you totally missed my point. Here you were making a jab at OSX for an admittedly rare bug and glossing over the the fact that windows bugs routinely have a much wider ranging impact on its user base.

I'm not using these arguments to make Microsoft look better, I'm simply debunking common urban myths about Macs not having the same types of problems you find in a typical PC.

Nope, you just wanted to take a jab at mac users. I don’t think I have ever met a Mac user who thought their machine was flawless. But who am I to argue with your all knowing assessment of “mac fanboys”?

[Quid]

They more than make up for any "lost profit" by charging 5 times more for their hardware, but they still aren't selling very many Macs.

9.71 million in 2008 ain’t that bad considering that apple has sold 2 million more macs year over year since 2006

Did you read the sources I provided? They figure there are between 22 million and 50 Million mac users. Sounds like they are doing pretty well to me.

[CaptainPike]

Apple's lame mac vs. pc commercials remind me of the dumb Sega commercials where Sega made up stuff like "blast processing" and basically made fun of Nintendo.

A few years later, Sega gave up on making hardware.

[enki]

this thread is a joke. so we are now debating computers like we do sports and politics? good lord.

btw, im a mac user at home, a PC user at work. (my pc crashes alot... my mac doesn't)

[CaptainPike]

I'm in the mood for some awesome computer gaming.

I think I'll go get a Mac.

[Dragon1963]

I'm in the mood for some awesome computer gaming.

I think I'll go get a Mac.

That reminds me. I need to download Quicktime so I can watch poor quality video on a tiny little window.

[CaptainPike]

That reminds me. I need to download Quicktime so I can watch poor quality video on a tiny little window.

Awesome. :dance:

[Dual867PowerMac]

So far we haven't heard about many. But I'm betting that we'll hear about more before Apple and Macophiles will admit to it being a real screw up.
It'll never happen.

[Quid]

That reminds me. I need to download Quicktime so I can watch poor quality video on a tiny little window.

While that gripe with Quicktime is valid, it’s out date, Quicktime X fixes many of the missteps of Quicktime 7

[Dual867PowerMac]

That reminds me. I need to download Quicktime so I can watch poor quality video on a tiny little window.
I only use Quicktime on certain video formats. Otherwise, I use the superior VLC. :)

[CaptainPike]

It'll never happen.

When you say "it'll never happen", you mean that you will never admit to Apple's screw ups?

[CaptainPike]

I only use Quicktime on certain video formats. Otherwise, I use the superior VLC. :)

And you call yourself a Macintosh fan? :cry:

[Dual867PowerMac]

When you say "it'll never happen", you mean that you will never admit to Apple's screw ups?
No. I'll never admit to Snow Leopard being a screw-up.

The first Snow Leopard update was amazing. :cool:

[Dual867PowerMac]

And you call yourself a Macintosh fan? :cry:
Yeah...

[Dragon1963]

While that gripe with Quicktime is valid, it’s out date, Quicktime X fixes many of the missteps of Quicktime 7

Quicktime has always had the tiny window poor quality issue. I was using the latest Quicktime when my hard drive crashed. I'll still download it because I've got some old Quicktime videos that I want to watch and only the tiny window of Quicktime to watch.

[Dual867PowerMac]

Quicktime has always had the tiny window poor quality issue. I was using the latest Quicktime when my hard drive crashed. I'll still download it because I've got some old Quicktime videos that I want to watch and only the tiny window of Quicktime to watch.
Oh good grief... :doh:

You can always make the QT 10 player larger by typing Command+F. Whaddaya know... FULL SCREEN!

[Dragon1963]

Oh good grief... :doh:

You can always make the QT 10 player larger by typing Command+F. Whaddaya know... FULL SCREEN!

Yep, and an older Quicktime video will still look like crap when blown up to full screen.

[Dual867PowerMac]

Yep, and an older Quicktime video will still look like crap when blown up to full screen.
Not necessarily. It depends on the quality of the video.

[Dragon1963]

Not necessarily. It depends on the quality of the video.

Most Quicktime vids I've seen are fairlly low quality until the last year or so.

[S.E.]

Reminds me of the PS3 vs XBOX. Both are good. The choice is personal. :)

[Dragon1963]

Reminds me of the PS3 vs XBOX. Both are good. The choice is personal. :)

I've played both. Xbox fails in all the areas I want in a gaming console.

[EnchantedFrog]

This thread makes me feel old.
I can remember discussions like this from back in the 60's when I first got into programming.

Only the names have changed.
Back then it was UNIVAC versus IBM. :dance:

[Beccaria]

btw, im a mac user at home, a PC user at work. (my pc crashes alot... my mac doesn't)
Same story here. I've worked with three work PCs and one home PC in the time I've had my reliable Mac.

So Mac has one bug-not great, but compared with the myriad of Microsoft bugs, it's minor.

[snagswolf]

Looks like Mac fans are a bit sensitive. :)

[enki]

Quicktime has always had the tiny window poor quality issue. I was using the latest Quicktime when my hard drive crashed. I'll still download it because I've got some old Quicktime videos that I want to watch and only the tiny window of Quicktime to watch.

good grief, really? the quality of any video you watch depends on how it was encoded... not what program you are watching it on. an understanding of video encoding would help before you start blaming Quicktime.

[Ex_Spy_Guy]

this thread is a joke. so we are now debating computers like we do sports and politics? good lord.

btw, im a mac user at home, a PC user at work. (my pc crashes alot... my mac doesn't)

sounds like a problem with work

[Ex_Spy_Guy]

good grief, really? the quality of any video you watch depends on how it was encoded... not what program you are watching it on. .

false....the decoder you are using has as much to do with quality as the encoder the author used.

[enki]

I'm in the mood for some awesome computer gaming.

I think I'll go get a Mac.

i'm in the mood for recording some music... guess what I'm gonna get...

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2009-10-13-apogee-gio-music_N.htm

Mac's and PC's have their own niches. When it comes to creative (web designing, graphic arts, video editing, DVD encoding, recording and mixing music and audio) Mac has the upper hand. That doesn't mean I hate PC and think they are crap, it just means that Mac are better for handling the tasks I need to get done. Fortunately, I am not a gamer so the limited gaming available for Mac doesn't affect me.

[enki]

sounds like a problem with work

:)) true.

[CaptainPike]

i'm in the mood for recording some music... guess what I'm gonna get...

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2009-10-13-apogee-gio-music_N.htm

Mac's and PC's have their own niches. When it comes to creative (web designing, graphic arts, video editing, DVD encoding, recording and mixing music and audio) Mac has the upper hand. That doesn't mean I hate PC and think they are crap, it just means that Mac are better for handling the tasks I need to get done. Fortunately, I am not a gamer so the limited gaming available for Mac doesn't affect me.

I agree. The common misconception is that Macs are better for certain things. In realitive creative type work is the only thing Macs are good for. Nothing else.

PC's are good for everything, while Macs are good for just certain things.

[Tulsa]

I agree. The common misconception is that Macs are better for certain things. In realitive creative type work is the only thing Macs are good for. Nothing else.

PC's are good for everything, while Macs are good for just certain things.


:))

That was meant as comedy, right?

[CaptainPike]

:))

That was meant as comedy, right?

There is nothing a Mac can do that a PC can't.

There are plenty of things a Mac can't do since you would need software. Oh wait.. I believe Apple has some Windows emulation software for that purpose. So they can emulate the software they love to rag on. :rolleyes:

[Tulsa]

There is nothing a Mac can do that a PC can't.

There are plenty of things a Mac can't do since you would need software. Oh wait.. I believe Apple has some Windows emulation software for that purpose. So they can emulate the software they love to rag on. :rolleyes:

Yes, it can stay running without the need to continually ctrl-alt-del the damn thing. It can manage memory properly and I've yet to come across a need that I have that I didn't have a software option for it without having to use the emulation.

[Dragon1963]

This thread makes me feel old.
I can remember discussions like this from back in the 60's when I first got into programming.

Only the names have changed.
Back then it was UNIVAC versus IBM. :dance:

That's back when bugs were literally bugs that got into the wiring isn't it.

[Dragon1963]

Looks like Mac fans are a bit sensitive. :)

You'd be sensitive too, if you found out that your "perfect" OS wasn't so "perfect" after all.

[Quid]

You'd be sensitive too, if you found out that your "perfect" OS wasn't so "perfect" after all.

I don’t believe I have have ever said OS X was perfect. I have, however, said that it perfectly suits my needs and expectations of a computing experience.

[Dragon1963]

I don’t believe I have have ever said OS X was perfect. I have, however, said that it perfectly suits my needs and expectations of a computing experience.

You haven't, but I know several Mac users who insist that Mac OS is the perfect.

[Tulsa]

You haven't, but I know several Mac users who insist that Mac OS is the perfect.

Only the idiot would suggest anything is perfect.

Mac OS-X is not perfect but it is a joy to use. I have both and I can't say I enjoy using my PC.

[enki]

You haven't, but I know several Mac users who insist that Mac OS is the perfect.

and there are plenty of PC users who do the same with Windows. It's a no win battle and a bit of a ridiculous one at that. Bottom line... everyone will use what suits them.

[Dragon1963]

Only the idiot would suggest anything is perfect.

Mac OS-X is not perfect but it is a joy to use. I have both and I can't say I enjoy using my PC.

I know a lot of idiots.

[Dragon1963]

and there are plenty of PC users who do the same with Windows. It's a no win battle and a bit of a ridiculous one at that. Bottom line... everyone will use what suits them.

True, but I don't buy into the hype of OS X being any better than Windows

[Ignotus]

It was easy to assume that you were implying that Apple was lying about the bug being rare. Is that my fault or yours?

Yours, I specifically said "I don't know" in the post you replied to. I spelled it out for you man, Apple and Microsoft or pretty much any software producer are not valid sources when talking about bugs in their own products. They have spin doctors that talk to the media etc. Me pointing this out does not imply I thought it was widespread.

The fact I have to type this again means you have serious reading comprehension issues.



Um, Apple says they have known about the issue are are working to fix it. Do you think they are lying there too?

They didn't acknowledge it for at least a month I believe. And they still didn't fix it, that was my point. They have had serious security vulnerabilities in the recent past that weren't fixed for over 6 months. They are slow to patch when compared to companies like Microsoft, and that is pretty sad considering Microsoft is far from perfect in that regard.

At the least, they could have disabled specific functionality to prevent the bug from happening as a temporary stopgap measure while they were working on the real solution. Other software companies do this sort of thing all the time.


As I recall, you (or it may have been someone else) gave a quote for a Dell computer with different specifications and when I configured the Dell to have equal features (or a close as possible) it was $50 more expensive.

"as close as possible", that is hilarious. I quoted a freaking overpriced boutique laptop PC with SLI graphics and a Quad core desktop CPU that was still several hundred dollars cheaper than the cheapest 19inch screened Mac. You have no credibility man, none.


Aren’t ALL commercials blatant propaganda? What kind advertisements would they be if they didn’t claim their product was better than the competitor’s?

Not all, but the point is, they are taking lies to the next level. They have even had some of their commercials banned in Europe due to how misleading they are.

Oh, but I see you have no problem with MS lying about Mac prices in their commercials, but Apple poking fun at windows crashing a lot (since it does) is unforgivably false.

They don't crash a lot unless you have faulty hardware or drivers in most cases. Also the Mac is not immune to these types of problems nor does it have an advantage in that regard. The only exception would be viruses, and most people I know that don't do P2P and click blablabla.mp3.exe files don't have too many problems with them.

Also, they didn't lie about Mac prices, Apple reduced their prices "somewhat" after the commercials had been produced. But unlike Apple, Microsoft actually removed the inaccurate information in those commercials. And you know why, because Apple went and complained about it, the irony there is hilarious.


Wow, you totally missed my point. Here you were making a jab at OSX for an admittedly rare bug and glossing over the the fact that windows bugs routinely have a much wider ranging impact on its user base.

For the third time Snow leopard has had numerous bugs, not just one, the cnet article I quoted even says so! Apple also has plenty of wide ranging bugs as well. Man you are dense, no wonder you like Macs so much.

And Captain obvious, of course Microsoft bugs are going to be more widespread, they have a much much larger user base! Man, I don't know why I bother responding to someone who is so ignorant.


Nope, you just wanted to take a jab at mac users. I don’t think I have ever met a Mac user who thought their machine was flawless. But who am I to argue with your all knowing assessment of “mac fanboys”?

Who are you to argue with anyone, you use specious reasoning in nearly ever post you make. Your analogy was faulty, and your attempt at spin in this post isn't any better.

The fact of the matter is, the "you just wanted to take a jab at mac users" line is a defense mechanism from someone who has an emotional attachment to his computer OS.

[Tulsa]

True, but I don't buy into the hype of OS X being any better than Windows

Better is a relative term.

If it's not a "better" experience for you, don't buy it. You live in America where that makes it all okay. I happen to feel it's vastly superior, but that's my own experience talking and ultimately means nothing to anyone but me.

[Ignotus]

Only the idiot would suggest anything is perfect.

Then that must mean there must be a lot of idiots that use Macs.

[Tulsa]

Then that must mean there must be a lot of idiots that use Macs.

Then it must be mutually inclusive.

[Dragon1963]

Better is a relative term.

If it's not a "better" experience for you, don't buy it. You live in America where that makes it all okay. I happen to feel it's vastly superior, but that's my own experience talking and ultimately means nothing to anyone but me.

Funny. For a "vastly superior" product it sure doesn't hold much of an advantage in the market. Face it, if it weren't for the Ipod, Apple would be dead now.

[CaptainPike]

A question for Windows guys (since the argument is really a software argument - Macs are PC's too)

Would you stop using Windows if a better OS came along?

[Dragon1963]

A question for Windows guys (since the argument is really a software argument - Macs are PC's too)

Would you stop using Windows if a better OS came along?

Only if it was truly better.
Linux has been touted as better and its free for the most part, but from what I've seen its really not a big step up or down.

[Dual867PowerMac]

Then that must mean there must be a lot of idiots that use Macs.
I guess I'm in the idiot camp, then.

[mtdim]

Only if it was truly better.
Linux has been touted as better and its free for the most part, but from what I've seen its really not a big step up or down.

I'd say the fact that it's free is a big step up. But just as in the Mac vs. Windows discussion, it depends on what your need are.

[CaptainPike]

I asked if Windows users would be open to other options because I'm open to other options.

I do like Linux. It's proven to be useful for me. I use Windows for 99% of what I do, but I do like Linux.

All kidding aside, Apple doesn't offer anything that I want. I don't see their product as being useful for me at all.

[blackcatrun]

OS9? I hope you realize that OS9 hasn't been supported for almost 10 years... and there is no such thing as OSX9... and it seems you're blaming the computer for you not remembering what your password is.

It wasnt my "password" to remeber.

It has a extreme problem in understanding it own harware. But this isnt the only MAC I seen with this forgot what the sound card or video card or modem problem while adding new software.
The PC in the other room is more than 9 years old. The mac is two years old.
The PC has never crashed. The MAC has three times twice just plugged in and running.

It's a fast machine without doubt but very nervouse of any changes. Something MAC users wont openly admite. Laptops in schools well put it this way they get a couple of years out them and they are toast at the cost to parents. They constantly wig out at least two are down for a few days duering the week.
I wont let my son have one because a book doesnt need power is hard to drop and break and research is more retianed if he looks for his scource of info.

The refrence was the muti... "OS...X9" made in down loads off the net. New users on used apples.. If you cant remeber a update and down load the wrong file it "screws" the user. Thats why used apples are in a pile for recycle not resold.
The same unhonerable thing happens in PC's too for down loads...However undo is a option for PC on a mac no such animal exists.

[EnchantedFrog]

That's back when bugs were literally bugs that got into the wiring isn't it.
hehe. Yeah.

And, talk about heat generation. The old UNIVAC's had over 5000 vacuum tubes.

[Quid]

Yours, I specifically said "I don't know" in the post you replied to. I spelled it out for you man, Apple and Microsoft or pretty much any software producer are not valid sources when talking about bugs in their own products. They have spin doctors that talk to the media etc. Me pointing this out does not imply I thought it was widespread.

The fact I have to type this again means you have serious reading comprehension issues.

They didn't acknowledge it for at least a month I believe. And they still didn't fix it, that was my point. They have had serious security vulnerabilities in the recent past that weren't fixed for over 6 months. They are slow to patch when compared to companies like Microsoft, and that is pretty sad considering Microsoft is far from perfect in that regard.

At the least, they could have disabled specific functionality to prevent the bug from happening as a temporary stopgap measure while they were working on the real solution. Other software companies do this sort of thing all the time.

"as close as possible", that is hilarious. I quoted a freaking overpriced boutique laptop PC with SLI graphics and a Quad core desktop CPU that was still several hundred dollars cheaper than the cheapest 19inch screened Mac. You have no credibility man, none.

Not all, but the point is, they are taking lies to the next level. They have even had some of their commercials banned in Europe due to how misleading they are.

They don't crash a lot unless you have faulty hardware or drivers in most cases. Also the Mac is not immune to these types of problems nor does it have an advantage in that regard. The only exception would be viruses, and most people I know that don't do P2P and click blablabla.mp3.exe files don't have too many problems with them.

Also, they didn't lie about Mac prices, Apple reduced their prices "somewhat" after the commercials had been produced. But unlike Apple, Microsoft actually removed the inaccurate information in those commercials. And you know why, because Apple went and complained about it, the irony there is hilarious.

For the third time Snow leopard has had numerous bugs, not just one, the cnet article I quoted even says so! Apple also has plenty of wide ranging bugs as well. Man you are dense, no wonder you like Macs so much.

And Captain obvious, of course Microsoft bugs are going to be more widespread, they have a much much larger user base! Man, I don't know why I bother responding to someone who is so ignorant.

Who are you to argue with anyone, you use specious reasoning in nearly ever post you make. Your analogy was faulty, and your attempt at spin in this post isn't any better.

The fact of the matter is, the "you just wanted to take a jab at mac users" line is a defense mechanism from someone who has an emotional attachment to his computer OS.

Wow, anger management would suit you well.

All I am getting from you is that you think Apple is some evil company that knowingly ships faulty products and then ignores customers who are affected. Am I right in that assertion?

wow, ok.

The fact that Snow Leopard has bugs is no shocker and is to be expected as ALL operating systems have bugs, every single of them. The real shocker is that you would point it out and basically call all Mac users idiots.

As unreasonable as some “mac fanboys” can be, the anti mac pundits can be worse. the level of unjustified rage that they have for all things Mac makes them look like idiots. And you, sir, are one of those idiots. If you don’t like Macs, THEN DON’T BUY ONE! simple as that. I didn’t see a single thread made by “Mac Fanboys” pointing and laughing when Vista bombed or when the terrible reviews of Windows Mobile 6.5 started to pour in.

That says a lot.

I suggest you redirect you foot stamping rage elsewhere

[Ignotus]

A question for Windows guys (since the argument is really a software argument - Macs are PC's too)

Would you stop using Windows if a better OS came along?

For my personal use, in a heart beat, I'm not married to one OS like the Mac folks. I already have a computer configured as a Linux samba file server at home and I use Windows, Linux, and sometimes Mac OS X at work.

[Quid]

For my personal use, in a heart beat, I'm not married to one OS like the Mac folks. I already have a computer configured as a Linux samba file server at home and I use Windows, Linux, and sometimes Mac OS X at work.


Wait, so I am married to OS X becuase I find it suits my needs better than competing OS’s?

[Ignotus]

Wow, anger management would suit you well.

All I am getting from you is that you think Apple is some evil company that knowingly ships faulty products and then ignores customers who are affected. Am I right in that assertion?

Again, you have some real issues with reading comprehension. I don't think Mac OS X or their hardware are horrible, but I do think Apple is extremely deceptive with its marketing, much more so than Microsoft. I think when it comes to bugs in general they are'nt too much different than their competition, but they do falsely try to claim they are better in that regard when they aren't. I also think they are subpar when it comes to updates and bug fixes, and I have a theory on why that is. Since they haven't been a real hacking target, they were able to rest on their laurels so to speak when it came to updates and security.


The fact that Snow Leopard has bugs is no shocker and is to be expected as ALL operating systems have bugs, every single of them.

Another lame fallacy from you, the fact that all OSs have bugs doesn't mean that the amount of bugs are equal, or that the speed at which they are fixed is identical.


The real shocker is that you would point it out and basically call all Mac users idiots.

Reading comprehension again, this is definitely a recurring theme with you. My comment about Mac users being idiots was in response to the following "Only the idiot would suggest anything is perfect." Like it or not, there are a lot of Mac supporters who think OS X is close to perfect. FYI, you basically conceded the point I was arguing without realizing it.


As unreasonable as some “mac fanboys” can be,

It is not just "some", I'm being serious here, you need to open your eyes. I work with numerous computer users on a daily basis and the Mac folks are the only ones I deal with that are so unreasonable when it comes to computer OSs.

I didn’t see a single thread made by “Mac Fanboys” pointing and laughing when Vista bombed or when the terrible reviews of Windows Mobile 6.5 started to pour in.

And I would have no problem if they did attack or laugh at Vista for bombing, assuming they used legit facts to do it. Unfortunately, that rarely happens when it is coming from a Mac user.

Having said that, you have posted in Dual867powermac threads in the past where he was talking smack about Microsoft/Windows in the OP.

I suggest you redirect you foot stamping rage elsewhere

I suggest you stop assuming I am angry, I'm not. However, it is funny watching you throw out false assumptions about my emotional state. I'm also amused by your poorly constructed "arguments", I have a feeling you are quite similar to many of the Mac users I know in real life.

[Alan J]

It is not just "some", I'm being serious here, you need to open your eyes. I work with numerous computer users on a daily basis and the Mac folks are the only ones I deal with that are so unreasonable when it comes to computer OSs.


Just a thought here, but d'you maybe think the Windows users you work with seem more reasonable about their OS than the Mac people do only because you already agree with them?

From what I've seen (and I work with a lot of computer users also), there are equal numbers of rabid fanboys on each side, and they both have equally stupid reasons why their chosen operating system is the "best."

[Ignotus]

i'm in the mood for recording some music... guess what I'm gonna get...

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2009-10-13-apogee-gio-music_N.htm

Mac's and PC's have their own niches. When it comes to creative (web designing, graphic arts, video editing, DVD encoding, recording and mixing music and audio) Mac has the upper hand. That doesn't mean I hate PC and think they are crap, it just means that Mac are better for handling the tasks I need to get done. Fortunately, I am not a gamer so the limited gaming available for Mac doesn't affect me.

I'm sorry but Mac's don't have the upper hand when it comes to "creative (web designing, graphic arts, video editing, DVD encoding, recording and mixing music and audio)". In fact, I think the PC is better in this regard due to better overall software compatibility and performance. All the major professional audio, video, and photo etc software packages work great on a Windows computer. Mac users have a smaller catalog of native software to choose from, the only exception being the few products that were developed by Apple and only work on Mac OSX.

And why do I say performance? The hardware is basically identical, but custom PC motherboards allow numerous overclocking options which boosts performance significantly. And this can be done safely (some manufactures will even overclock + stability/stress test before you buy the PC) with the newer Intel Processors that have lots and lots of headroom.

[Ignotus]

Just a thought here, but d'you maybe think the Windows users you work with seem more reasonable about their OS than the Mac people do only because you already agree with them?

Nah, I don't even agree with the Windows users on a lot of OS related things. They just don't constantly go out of their way spewing rubbish the way Mac users do.

From what I've seen (and I work with a lot of computer users also), there are equal numbers of rabid fanboys on each side, and they both have equally stupid reasons why their chosen operating system is the "best."

I don't see the type of cultish behavior from Windows users, I'm sorry. They aren't focused on Bill Gates keynotes, they aren't camping in front of stores for Winmobile phones etc etc. The main reason the users I work with use Windows is for compatibility reasons, and they are quite honest about the pros and cons of the OS. Most don't even talk about Mac or OS X at all.

[Alan J]

Nah, I don't even agree with the Windows users on a lot of OS related things. They just don't constantly go out of their way spewing rubbish the way Mac users do.

Oh they do, you simply have to disagree with them that Windows is the best operating system.

I don't see the type of cultish behavior from Windows users, I'm sorry. They aren't focused on Bill Gates keynotes, they aren't camping in front of stores for Winmobile phones etc etc. The main reason the users I work with use Windows is for compatibility reasons, and they are quite honest about the pros and cons of the OS. Most don't even talk about Mac or OS X at all.

You don't see that behavior because, if this thread is anything to go by, you are far too engaged in it yourself.

[Dragon1963]

hehe. Yeah.

And, talk about heat generation. The old UNIVAC's had over 5000 vacuum tubes.

Great for cold winter nights.

[Dragon1963]

Wait, so I am married to OS X becuase I find it suits my needs better than competing OS’s?

Problem is most Mac users I know don't believe that anything can be better than the Mac OS no matter what version. So married might as well apply.

[Ignotus]

Oh they do, you simply have to disagree with them that Windows is the best operating system.

Oh they don't, the vast majority don't even agree or disagree on which OS is best. Most I talk to use Windows because it does what they need, and they have their complaints as well, whether justified or not. The above just shows how out of touch you are.


You don't see that behavior because, if this thread is anything to go by, you are far too engaged in it yourself.

I don't see the cultish behavior because it isn't there for all intents and purposes. Again, with the exception of maybe the xbox, where are the Microsoft fanbois camping outside stores etc for their products? Most of them don't even listen to Bill gates or Steve Balmer's speeches, if they even know who Steve Balmer is. Mac fanboiss parrot the stuff Steve Jobs says on stage for crying out loud.

It is kind of like comparing someone who enjoys watching a sitcom on weeknights with a die hard Trekkie who dresses up in full costume and goes to conventions etc. You see very few Windows user in the latter category when it comes to their choice of operating systems.

[Quid]

I don't see the cultish behavior because it isn't there for all intents and purposes. Again, with the exception of maybe the xbox, where are the Microsoft fanbois camping outside stores etc for their products? Most of them don't even listen to Bill gates or Steve Balmer's speeches, if they even know who Steve Balmer is. Mac fanboiss parrot the stuff Steve Jobs says on stage for crying out loud.

It is kind of like comparing someone who enjoys watching a sitcom on weeknights with a die hard Trekkie who dresses up in full costume and goes to conventions etc. You see very few Windows user in the latter category when it comes to their choice of operating systems.

I can’t tell if you are faulting Apple for making an ordinary tech product seem exciting. If that is the case, can you blame them for trying make their product seem more exciting and hip then their competitors?

I am sure the Zune is a fine device, but MS has done nothing to make people desire one. iPods, on the other hand have that icon status because Apple really knows how to market the hell out of it and make it look like an exciting product, even though it is just some flash memory and a screen.

MS products (except maybe the xbox) make everyone say “meh”. Apple products make most people say “wow” because they know how to make something ordinary seem exciting.

The “Get A Mac” ads will be around a while longer because they are entertaining, they are funny. Do they lie? No actually, but they do make many generalizations about windows (which is why the ads have been effective)

[Dragon1963]

I can’t tell if you are faulting Apple for making an ordinary tech product seem exciting. If that is the case, can you blame them for trying make their product seem more exciting and hip then their competitors?

I am sure the Zune is a fine device, but MS has done nothing to make people desire one. iPods, on the other hand have that icon status because Apple really knows how to market the hell out of it and make it look like an exciting product, even though it is just some flash memory and a screen.

MS products (except maybe the xbox) make everyone say “meh”. Apple products make most people say “wow” because they know how to make something ordinary seem exciting.

The “Get A Mac” ads will be around a while longer because they are entertaining, they are funny. Do they lie? No actually, but they do make many generalizations about windows (which is why the ads have been effective)

Sarcam on/
So you equate exciting ads with useful products. Bet you buy a lot of exciting stuff from infomercials. After all those ads are exciting and the products mundane. sarcasm off/

The last really good Mac ad I watched was the one that introduce the first Mac. Of course, back then Apple made quality hardware that was worth the price.

[Quid]

Sarcam on/
So you equate exciting ads with useful products. Bet you buy a lot of exciting stuff from infomercials. After all those ads are exciting and the products mundane. sarcasm off/

The last really good Mac ad I watched was the one that introduce the first Mac. Of course, back then Apple made quality hardware that was worth the price.

I shall ignore your sarcasm and address your point anyways! :razz:

Look at the original iMac from 1998, it was a fairly standard computer on the inside (some said it was crippled because it lacked a floppy drive:eek:). How then did Apple manage to sell a metric s*** ton of them? because they put the guts in shiny technicolor bubble that meshed will with the decorating aesthetics of the late 90’s. They made it exciting by making the computer something you wanted to show off rather than hide in the office. All in all it was a pretty standard mid-range consumer level computer but it had that special detail that made an icon.

Why do you think that more and more PC makers are touting the design of their products? Before apple came back on the scene with the first iMac, very few PC’s were anything other than beige boxes you shoved under your desk, that is the exact reason the iMac was so successful. The slick industrial design that Apple gives their products make people actually feel something for the devices that they would never feel for another company’s device in which design was a secondary concern. When people use well-designed devices they feel hip and cool and cutting edge, and this goes a lot farther to sell products more effectively than some tech specs that most people don’t understand.

[CaptainPike]

I shall ignore your sarcasm and address your point anyways! :razz:

Look at the original iMac from 1998, it was a fairly standard computer on the inside (some said it was crippled because it lacked a floppy drive:eek:). How then did Apple manage to sell a metric s*** ton of them? because they put the guts in shiny technicolor bubble that meshed will with the decorating aesthetics of the late 90’s. They made it exciting by making the computer something you wanted to show off rather than hide in the office. All in all it was a pretty standard mid-range consumer level computer but it had that special detail that made an icon.

Why do you think that more and more PC makers are touting the design of their products? Before apple came back on the scene with the first iMac, very few PC’s were anything other than beige boxes you shoved under your desk, that is the exact reason the iMac was so successful. The slick industrial design that Apple gives their products make people actually feel something for the devices that they would never feel for another company’s device in which design was a secondary concern. When people use well-designed devices they feel hip and cool and cutting edge, and this goes a lot farther to sell products more effectively than some tech specs that most people don’t understand.

This reminds me of when my wife worked for Sears years ago.

This poor girl brings in her iMac and demands that they fix it. Yes. She thought Sears (the parts and service side of Sears) was going to fix her iMac. I have no idea what was wrong with it, but apparently this iMac wasn't "just working".

The girls gets loud and very rude with my wife. The general impression I got from this is that this girl didn't know anything about macs and I'd be willing to bet she didn't know anything about PC's either.

I bet there are a lot of Mac users that don't know anything about computers in general.

[Dragon1963]

I shall ignore your sarcasm and address your point anyways! :razz:

Look at the original iMac from 1998, it was a fairly standard computer on the inside (some said it was crippled because it lacked a floppy drive:eek:). How then did Apple manage to sell a metric s*** ton of them? because they put the guts in shiny technicolor bubble that meshed will with the decorating aesthetics of the late 90’s. They made it exciting by making the computer something you wanted to show off rather than hide in the office. All in all it was a pretty standard mid-range consumer level computer but it had that special detail that made an icon.

Why do you think that more and more PC makers are touting the design of their products? Before apple came back on the scene with the first iMac, very few PC’s were anything other than beige boxes you shoved under your desk, that is the exact reason the iMac was so successful. The slick industrial design that Apple gives their products make people actually feel something for the devices that they would never feel for another company’s device in which design was a secondary concern. When people use well-designed devices they feel hip and cool and cutting edge, and this goes a lot farther to sell products more effectively than some tech specs that most people don’t understand.

iMac, the ugliest crappiest Macs in existence, how anyone could believe they were good looking is beyond me. I guess even ugly looks good to a Macphile.

[Quid]

iMac, the ugliest crappiest Macs in existence, how anyone could believe they were good looking is beyond me. I guess even ugly looks good to a Macphile.

They do look dated now, but for the time they followed the design trends to the T. and because they were so different, even if you didn’t like them, at least you noticed them, that is exactly what Apple wanted.

personally I found the second generation iMac, the flower pot, to be a much better design.

[Pudge]

What is the point of this thread other than to take a poke at mac users.?

A lot of mac users I've run into are smarmy, snobby jerks by and large, who think their computers never have issues.

And wiping out everything? Man, none of my PC's ever did that.

Just sayin'.

[Dragon1963]

They do look dated now, but for the time they followed the design trends to the T. and because they were so different, even if you didn’t like them, at least you noticed them, that is exactly what Apple wanted.

personally I found the second generation iMac, the flower pot, to be a much better design.

If there had been a PC that followed the iMac formula for design I'd have sworn of all computers until they looked good again.

If iMac design was so great why did Apple return to the plain jane box styles for the most part?

[Quid]

If there had been a PC that followed the iMac formula for design I'd have sworn of all computers until they looked good again.

If iMac design was so great why did Apple return to the plain jane box styles for the most part?

This is plain jane?
http://www.sigpc.net/v6/n4/images/imac-side.jpg

The reason they moved away from the candy colored models is that consumer tastes in design changed around the turn of the new millennium; people started to value futuristic minimalism rather than the glossy colors that were associated with the late 90’s. And with LCD monitors becoming cheaper in 2001-2002 Apple saw it as an opportunity to do what no other PC maker could do, move exclusively to LDC’s for all models. The flower pot iMac above was as different from its predecessor as the first iMac was from all other PC at it’s time. Apple managed to keep people guessing about what the next model would look like. The 3rd generation was a radical departure from the flower pot and the 4th generation riffed on the 3rd but changed the construction material.

If you mean plain jane box styles as a standard tower/monitor/keyboard/mouse set up, they do have that in the Mac Pro, but that is just an evolution of the old Power Mac towers that predate the first iMac.

The current consumer level Mac desktops are the current generations of the iMac and the Mac Mini, both of which cannot be described as a “plain jane” style.

[Dragon1963]

This is plain jane?
http://www.sigpc.net/v6/n4/images/imac-side.jpg

The reason they moved away from the candy colored models is that consumer tastes in design changed around the turn of the new millennium; people started to value futuristic minimalism rather than the glossy colors that were associated with the late 90’s. And with LCD monitors becoming cheaper in 2001-2002 Apple saw it as an opportunity to do what no other PC maker could do, move exclusively to LDC’s for all models. The flower pot iMac above was as different from its predecessor as the first iMac was from all other PC at it’s time. Apple managed to keep people guessing about what the next model would look like. The 3rd generation was a radical departure from the flower pot and the 4th generation riffed on the 3rd but changed the construction material.

If you mean plain jane box styles as a standard tower/monitor/keyboard/mouse set up, they do have that in the Mac Pro, but that is just an evolution of the old Power Mac towers that predate the first iMac.

The current consumer level Mac desktops are the current generations of the iMac and the Mac Mini, both of which cannot be described as a “plain jane” style.

Didn't realize that's what you call the flower pot style iMac. Those are about as unfunctional and ugly a computer as you can get. Might as well use it as a flower pot.

[Alan J]

Didn't realize that's what you call the flower pot style iMac. Those are about as unfunctional and ugly a computer as you can get. Might as well use it as a flower pot.

Lol, what is unfunctional about them?


Also, the new generation iMacs actually look like this:

http://www.apple.com/imac/images/design_gallery/imac_1_20090303.jpg#imac1

Now, I think even you will have to admit that that's an attractive piece of technology right thar.

[Quid]

Didn't realize that's what you call the flower pot style iMac. Those are about as unfunctional and ugly a computer as you can get. Might as well use it as a flower pot.

ugly is a personal opinion, but it was definitely not unfunctional. The swivel arm allowed the monitor to be moved to a huge range of angles with out having to move anything that touched the desk. That means if you wanted to rotate the monitor to show a person sitting next to you, you didn’t have to move all that crap that collects on most people’s desk. The arm also acts as the carrying handle for the system, because apple knew that people would try to pick it up by the arm, they engineered it to act in accordance with that idea.

Plus, it was the quietest system I have ever used. it has vents surrounding the bottom and top of the dome, lots of air flow meant that the fans rarely kicked on.

It was a great system.

[Dragon1963]

Lol, what is unfunctional about them?


Also, the new generation iMacs actually look like this:

http://www.apple.com/imac/images/design_gallery/imac_1_20090303.jpg#imac1

Now, I think even you will have to admit that that's an attractive piece of technology right thar.

OMG! How on earth do you set up a keyboard and mouse? Don't tell me Apple thinks full battery powered wireless peripherals are going to earn market share.

[Dragon1963]

ugly is a personal opinion, but it was definitely not unfunctional. The swivel arm allowed the monitor to be moved to a huge range of angles with out having to move anything that touched the desk. That means if you wanted to rotate the monitor to show a person sitting next to you, you didn’t have to move all that crap that collects on most people’s desk. The arm also acts as the carrying handle for the system, because apple knew that people would try to pick it up by the arm, they engineered it to act in accordance with that idea.

Plus, it was the quietest system I have ever used. it has vents surrounding the bottom and top of the dome, lots of air flow meant that the fans rarely kicked on.

It was a great system.

That swivel arm was no thicker than a my pinkie finger. LCD screens in the mid '90s were just learning to be decent color weren't all the reliable in that size. Big deal with the vents. I saw one of those damn things torn apart and its amazing that they didn't short out from the components nearly touching each other. The there's the craptacular CPU that killed Motorola's chip making reputation. Apple finally did something smart and got real CPU chips last year.

[enki]

OMG! How on earth do you set up a keyboard and mouse? Don't tell me Apple thinks full battery powered wireless peripherals are going to earn market share.

:rolleyes:
you plug the keyboard into the back of the monitor via USB... the mouse plugs into the keyboard via USB... pretty simple.

[Quid]

That swivel arm was no thicker than a my pinkie finger. LCD screens in the mid '90s were just learning to be decent color weren't all the reliable in that size. Big deal with the vents. I saw one of those damn things torn apart and its amazing that they didn't short out from the components nearly touching each other. The there's the craptacular CPU that killed Motorola's chip making reputation. Apple finally did something smart and got real CPU chips last year.

Ok, now I know that everything you have been saying about the iMac has been pulled out of your butt. The Flower pot iMac (also known as the iMac G4) was in production between January 2002 to August 2004, not the “mid ’90’s” when LCD’s were crap. LCD’s were in full swing by 2002.

And you must have sausage fingers because the swivel arm on that model was around 3.5 inches in circumference; comfortably large enough to hold.

And the way the parts are arranged facilitated airflow. the fans at the top of the dome drew air up through the bottom vents past the CPU, RAM, and optical drives first then through out the machine up ward. yes most of the parts made contact with other parts but that is no different than any laptop.

Also, it wasn’t the G4 that killed Motorola and the Power PC chips, it was the G5. The G4 was arguably the best chip Motorola made. But the G5 had power consumption and heat problems that made it impossible to put in portable Macs. That is why Apple switched to Intel chips, Motorola was holding them back because they couldn’t fix the G5’s problems. By the way, that didn’t happen “last year” as you claim. Apple announced the transition to Intel in July 2005 and finished the upgrades in May 2006, neither of which were “last year”. I Think I should know as my current Intel powered 17inch MacBook Pro was bought on the day it was introduced: April 24th 2006.

seriously, wikipedia is your friend. use it before you go off spouting mistakes like that.

[Quid]

OMG! How on earth do you set up a keyboard and mouse? Don't tell me Apple thinks full battery powered wireless peripherals are going to earn market share.

Via a standard USB cable

wireless keyboards and mouses are available but not necessary.

EDIT: does this picture help: http://images.apple.com/imac/images/overview_hero3_20090828.jpg

[Dragon1963]

Ok, now I know that everything you have been saying about the iMac has been pulled out of your butt. The Flower pot iMac (also known as the iMac G4) was in production between January 2002 to August 2004, not the “mid ’90’s” when LCD’s were crap. LCD’s were in full swing by 2002.

And you must have sausage fingers because the swivel arm on that model was around 3.5 inches in circumference; comfortably large enough to hold.

And the way the parts are arranged facilitated airflow. the fans at the top of the dome drew air up through the bottom vents past the CPU, RAM, and optical drives first then through out the machine up ward. yes most of the parts made contact with other parts but that is no different than any laptop.

Also, it wasn’t the G4 that killed Motorola and the Power PC chips, it was the G5. The G4 was arguably the best chip Motorola made. But the G5 had power consumption and heat problems that made it impossible to put in portable Macs. That is why Apple switched to Intel chips, Motorola was holding them back because they couldn’t fix the G5’s problems. By the way, that didn’t happen “last year” as you claim. Apple announced the transition to Intel in July 2005 and finished the upgrades in May 2006, neither of which were “last year”. I Think I should know as my current Intel powered 17inch MacBook Pro was bought on the day it was introduced: April 24th 2006.

seriously, wikipedia is your friend. use it before you go off spouting mistakes like that.

G4, G5 big deal. The Motorola/PowerPC chips were never as good as they were touted to be. I loved laughing at the Mac commercials that claimed the U.S. government was protecting the G4.

As for wiki. When one sees the flowerpot style in an office, and sitting in the middle of a desk in the mid to late '90s, wiki is wrong.

[Dragon1963]

Via a standard USB cable

wireless keyboards and mouses are available but not necessary.

EDIT: does this picture help: http://images.apple.com/imac/images/overview_hero3_20090828.jpg

So much for Apple being cutting edge like they love to claim.

[Quid]

As for wiki. When one sees the flowerpot style in an office, and sitting in the middle of a desk in the mid to late '90s, wiki is wrong.

Your memory is wrong.

iMac from summer 2001:http://www.apple-history.com/body.php?page=gallery&model=imac_summer2001&sort=date&performa=off&order=ASC

iMac from January 2002: http://www.apple-history.com/body.php?page=gallery&model=imac_flat&sort=date&performa=off&order=ASC

note the dates of introduction.

would you care to try again?

[Quid]

So much for Apple being cutting edge like they love to claim.

Huh? what’s wrong with them offering a hardline usb connection as an option? Does that diminish the capabilities of the computer at all?

Oh wait, I see, you are just acting out against something you have no real knowledge of.

[enki]

So much for Apple being cutting edge like they love to claim.

so you blasted them over the wireless keyboard and mouse and now you're shunning them for using USB... got it... you have nothing to stand on other than simple taunting.

[Dragon1963]

Your memory is wrong.

iMac from summer 2001:http://www.apple-history.com/body.php?page=gallery&model=imac_summer2001&sort=date&performa=off&order=ASC

iMac from January 2002: http://www.apple-history.com/body.php?page=gallery&model=imac_flat&sort=date&performa=off&order=ASC

note the dates of introduction.

would you care to try again?

I know what I saw and when because it corresponded with the first three years I on the job as a security guard.

[Quid]

I know what I saw and when because it corresponded with the first three years I on the job as a security guard.

you are still wrong.

Note the date on the following tech specs:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2643

[Dragon1963]

Huh? what’s wrong with them offering a hardline usb connection as an option? Does that diminish the capabilities of the computer at all?

Oh wait, I see, you are just acting out against something you have no real knowledge of.

Seeing as Apple is such a proprietary tech oriented I'm surprised that they don't insist that the hookups be firewire instead of USB.

[Dragon1963]

so you blasted them over the wireless keyboard and mouse and now you're shunning them for using USB... got it... you have nothing to stand on other than simple taunting.

USB isn't Apple's proprietary hardware. I would expect them to be using their "superior" firewire connection rather than the mundane USB that everyone else uses. After all Apple stuff is always "superior" to a PC.

[Quid]

Seeing as Apple is such a proprietary tech oriented I'm surprised that they don't insist that the hookups be firewire instead of USB.

Considering that firewire 800 is still a standard for professional videographers…

USB isn't Apple's proprietary hardware. I would expect them to be using their "superior" firewire connection rather than the mundane USB that everyone else uses. After all Apple stuff is always "superior" to a PC.

Ah, I see again, you aren’t interested in an actual discussion, just whining about Apple.

[Dragon1963]

Considering that firewire 800 is still a standard for professional videographers…

Ah, I see again, you aren’t interested in an actual discussion, just whining about Apple.

The why doesn't Apple use it for mouse and keyboard standards on their product?

I don't see how you can be so big on a product that touts its "superiority" and then doesn't follow through with its peripherals using those "superior" technologies.

[Quid]

The why doesn't Apple use it for mouse and keyboard standards on their product?

I don't see how you can be so big on a product that touts its "superiority" and then doesn't follow through with its peripherals using those "superior" technologies.

Because Apple also touts the Mac’s compatibility with 3rd party peripherals (which use USB). By the way, Apple was the first computer manufacturer to eliminate the PS/2 keyboard and mouse connectors in favor of USB.

Now, Firewire was a misstep by Apple, they thought it would gain wider acceptance among consumers, but it only took off with video and data professionals. Hence why it is slowly being phased out by Apple, despite that Firewire 800 is almost twice as fast as USB 2.0.

you have yet to respond to my evidence that the iMac G4 (the “flower pot” iMac) was introduced in 2002 and not “the mid or late ’90’s”. You are either mistaken or lying to cover for your bad information, and considering all the data I could pull up on that model, I am leaning towards lying.

[CaptainPike]

I would personally like to see more bluetooth keyboards and mice so the price could drop.

[CaptainPike]

Because Apple also touts the Mac’s compatibility with 3rd party peripherals (which use USB).
By the way, Apple was the first computer manufacturer to eliminate the PS/2 keyboard and mouse connectors in favor of USB.

Now, Firewire was a misstep by Apple, they thought it would gain wider acceptance among consumers, but it only took off with video and data professionals. Hence why it is slowly being phased out by Apple, despite that Firewire 800 is almost twice as fast and USB 2.0.

With the advances of digital camcorders and such, I can't see how there's any more need for firewire at all.

[Quid]

I would personally like to see more bluetooth keyboards and mice so the price could drop.

I would too. I bought a third party bluetooth keyboard and mouse for my MacBook Pro and paid 90 bucks for the combo. That I can pick up a wired combo for a fraction of the price is telling.

The sad part is that the wireless peripheral market is for the devices with the dumb USB dongles. All Macs have bluetooth built in (and so do most PC models), do we really need all the stupid dongles?

[Quid]

With the advances of digital camcorders and such, I can't see how there's any more need for firewire at all.

there is not, hence why Apple is phasing out the connector on many of it’s computers.

[CaptainPike]

I would too. I bought a third party bluetooth keyboard and mouse for my MacBook Pro and paid 90 bucks for the combo. That I can pick up a wired combo for a fraction of the price is telling.

The sad part is that the wireless peripheral market is for the devices with the dumb USB dongles. All Macs have bluetooth built in (and so do most PC models), do we really need all the stupid dongles?

I have seen some wireless mice claiming to use a 2.4ghz frequency and ranges from 30 to 50 feet. Sounds an awful lot like bluetooth to me. Unfortunately, the prices are still pretty high.

For me, 40 bucks for a mouse is high.

[Dragon1963]

Because Apple also touts the Mac’s compatibility with 3rd party peripherals (which use USB). By the way, Apple was the first computer manufacturer to eliminate the PS/2 keyboard and mouse connectors in favor of USB.

Now, Firewire was a misstep by Apple, they thought it would gain wider acceptance among consumers, but it only took off with video and data professionals. Hence why it is slowly being phased out by Apple, despite that Firewire 800 is almost twice as fast as USB 2.0.

you have yet to respond to my evidence that the iMac G4 (the “flower pot” iMac) was introduced in 2002 and not “the mid or late ’90’s”. You are either mistaken or lying to cover for your bad information, and considering all the data I could pull up on that model, I am leaning towards lying.

USB didn't take long to oust PS/2 on most PCs either.

I often have to wonder about the professionals who insist on using standards that are disappearing. I know people who still insist on using HD-DVD format over Blu-ray.

About your evidence. All I have to say is I saw the flower pot in an office from 1997-2000 at the site I worked at. I was told it had been in the office since about 1995. Now that leads me to think three things. Apple stole the design from someone, they bought it, or they were beta testing the design years before they put it on the market. Except for the stolen design option the other two options are nothing to hide facts from your fan base.

[msny]

There are pros and cons to both Mac and PC's.

I favor PC's cause as a Systems Analyst/Programmer its what business
use in 99.9% of all companies around the world.

If your strictly in it for home useage, and willing to pay for a higher
priced machine a Mac is your style. Most software with a PC counterpart
usually costs more.

For me, I can maintain any PC computer with ease. If I had a Mac
with an issue, I'd wonder how to fix it.

[Quid]

USB didn't take long to oust PS/2 on most PCs either.

That is because it is a superior connector to PS/2.

I often have to wonder about the professionals who insist on using standards that are disappearing. I know people who still insist on using HD-DVD format over Blu-ray.

You obviously don’t work in an industry where hardware/software is mission critical. It is too costly to risk buying new technology when the current technology works perfectly fine. Why dump a perfectly good camera because of a connector? And video/audio/data professionals rely on the fact that Firewire is faster than USB.

About your evidence. All I have to say is I saw the flower pot in an office from 1997-2000 at the site I worked at. I was told it had been in the office since about 1995. Now that leads me to think three things. Apple stole the design from someone, they bought it, or they were beta testing the design years before they put it on the market. Except for the stolen design option the other two options are nothing to hide facts from your fan base.


I am still not buying it. Considering the first generation of iMacs did not come out until 1998, it is impossible that your company had the second generation iMac in 1995. Your memory is faulty or you are still lying. Guess which one I am betting on.

[Dragon1963]

Snip.

I am still not buying it. Considering the first generation of iMacs did not come out until 1998, it is impossible that your company had the second generation iMac in 1995. Your memory is faulty or you are still lying. Guess which one I am betting on.

Easy guess. Sounds just like almost all the Mac users I've met. Won't believe anything outside what Apple says about the Mac could be true. I gave you my facts and you dismissed them out of hand. I may be a PC fan but I at least know better than to slavishly believe what the PC companies and Microsoft put out.

[Dual867PowerMac]

Is this thread still going on?

Good grief, people. Use whatever you want.

I love Macs, but my laptop is a Dell running Vista Home Premium.

And as a matter of fact, I'm on it at the local Wendy's.

Now, can I please get back to my single and baked potato?

:evil:

[enki]

Easy guess. Sounds just like almost all the Mac users I've met. Won't believe anything outside what Apple says about the Mac could be true. I gave you my facts and you dismissed them out of hand. I may be a PC fan but I at least know better than to slavishly believe what the PC companies and Microsoft put out.

seriously, your "facts" are impossible. the lcd iMac was not released until 2002... that is fact. and the first iMac G3 (with the crt monitor) was releases in 1998.

and I don't have to believe what "Apple says" about the release date because I witnessed it first hand.

[Quid]

Easy guess. Sounds just like almost all the Mac users I've met. Won't believe anything outside what Apple says about the Mac could be true. I gave you my facts and you dismissed them out of hand. I may be a PC fan but I at least know better than to slavishly believe what the PC companies and Microsoft put out.

I am going to paraphrase an internet meme: Proof or it didn’t happen.

If you can provide proof that your company had the flower pot iMac seven years before it was released and three years before the first iMac, then I would believe you. Until then my assessment of you remains as it has been, you have very little knowledge of Apple’s product line yet you try to speak about it as if you were an expert and are consistently failing at it, and then you lie to cover it up.

And considering I provided three sources (only one of which was Apple) that state that the date of introduction was January 2002, I think your “proof” will be thin on the ground.

Besides, Apple doesn’t “beta test” (which is a software term BTW, not a hardware term) hardware anywhere but in house. which means they don’t send prototypes to random companies to benchmark. Even if those iMacs existed in 1995 (which they didn’t) your company would not have one before they hit the market, unless they were the contracted manufacturer (which I highly doubt, because you would have mentioned it already)

This discussion is not a matter of “slavishly believing Apple” it’s a matter of facts, and the facts are not on your side. the fact that you have to resort to personal attacks rather than address my points means that you know you can’t address them. So you try to frame me as some drooling idiot who will believe anything Apple tells me in order to validate your own mistakes and lies.

Do you think Apple is lying about the release date of the iMac G4? Do think there is some big conspiracy to hide the true facts about a piece of consumer electronics? What would Apple gain by lying, especially when the facts are so easy to discover?

[Quid]

Is this thread still going on?

Good grief, people. Use whatever you want.

I love Macs, but my laptop is a Dell running Vista Home Premium.

And as a matter of fact, I'm on it at the local Wendy's.

Now, can I please get back to my single and baked potato?

:evil:

Sadly yes, Dragon1963 is convinced that the old iMac G4’s could travel through time. :razz:

[Dragon1963]

I am going to paraphrase an internet meme: Proof or it didn’t happen.

If you can provide proof that your company had the flower pot iMac seven years before it was released and three years before the first iMac, then I would believe you. Until then my assessment of you remains as it has been, you have very little knowledge of Apple’s product line yet you try to speak about it as if you were an expert and are consistently failing at it, and then you lie to cover it up.

And considering I provided three sources (only one of which was Apple) that state that the date of introduction was January 2002, I think your “proof” will be thin on the ground.

Besides, Apple doesn’t “beta test” (which is a software term BTW, not a hardware term) hardware anywhere but in house. which means they don’t send prototypes to random companies to benchmark. Even if those iMacs existed in 1995 (which they didn’t) your company would not have one before they hit the market, unless they were the contracted manufacturer (which I highly doubt, because you would have mentioned it already)

This discussion is not a matter of “slavishly believing Apple” it’s a matter of facts, and the facts are not on your side. the fact that you have to resort to personal attacks rather than address my points means that you know you can’t address them. So you try to frame me as some drooling idiot who will believe anything Apple tells me in order to validate your own mistakes and lies.

Do you think Apple is lying about the release date of the iMac G4? Do think there is some big conspiracy to hide the true facts about a piece of consumer electronics? What would Apple gain by lying, especially when the facts are so easy to discover?


:)) Did I ever say it was a G4? Nope. I said I saw the flower pot design iMac and you assumed it was a G4. If I had said it was a G4 then I'd be wrong. Maybe I should have clarified better or maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusions that make your agreements null and void.

[Dragon1963]

Sadly yes, Dragon1963 is convinced that the old iMac G4’s could travel through time. :razz:

Maybe it did. The way those Mac users I know act, a Mac is capable of doing anything. :mrgreen:

[Quid]

:)) Did I ever say it was a G4? Nope. I said I saw the flower pot design iMac and you assumed it was a G4. If I had said it was a G4 then I'd be wrong. Maybe I should have clarified better or maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusions that make your agreements null and void.

yet again you fail, a 2 minute internet search would reveal that the particular model was known by a couple names:

Officially as iMac G4 or iMac (LCD)

Colloquially as The Desk Lamp Mac or the Flower Pot.

Keep trying, you obviously are backed into a corner because you are now nitpicking my (correct) facts and thinking it is valid argument.

[enki]

:)) Did I ever say it was a G4? Nope. I said I saw the flower pot design iMac and you assumed it was a G4.


good grief. that's because the flower pot design was always a G4, and only ever a G4... it was the first G4 iMac... in 2002.

[The Girl from Ipanema]

They're actually very cute too, imho. If they made one with upgraded specs, and I was in the market for a new desktop, that's what I'd get.

[Dragon1963]

yet again you fail, a 2 minute internet search would reveal that the particular model was known by a couple names:

Officially as iMac G4 or iMac (LCD)

Colloquially as The Desk Lamp Mac or the Flower Pot.

Keep trying, you obviously are backed into a corner because you are now nitpicking my (correct) facts and thinking it is valid argument.


Blah, blah, blah..

I'm done with this thread. Go back to that fictional fantasy Mac world where Apple and its toys rule the world.

[Quid]

Blah, blah, blah..

I guess I can declare myself the winner of this argument. Then again I should have known that after your first post in this thread.

I'm done with this thread. Go back to that fictional fantasy Mac world where Apple and its toys rule the world.

About frickin’ time. I was starting to think that you had a pathological need to be wrong.

[mtdim]

Sadly yes, Dragon1963 is convinced that the old iMac G4’s could travel through time. :razz:

I would buy a computer that could do that. :shifty:

[enki]

Blah, blah, blah..

I'm done with this thread. Go back to that fictional fantasy Mac world where Apple and its toys rule the world.

:rolleyes:

[Dual867PowerMac]

Is this thread still going on? :doh:

[Quid]

Is this thread still going on? :doh:
yes, and it will continue to if you keep posting inane things like your comment above.

If you don’t like the longevity this thread has had, quit sending it back to the top