Star Wars: What was Lucas trying to accomplish?

[Tom Kalbfus]

It looks to me that the entire Star Wars movie was a liberal exercise to understand the bad guy. In the first scene of Episode IV - A New Hope, we are introduced to one bad guy, Darth Vader, he likes to choke people to death by using the Force, and so George Lucas set up this challenge for himself, he created this villain and over the next 5 movies including three prequels, he tries to understand how Darth Vader became this way.

Now tell me, is this a realistic way to understand evil? Are some people just born bad, or is there always a logical and reasonable explaination of how the villian became so bad? How well does George Lucas explain how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader?

[SFC(R)L]

It looks to me that maybe you need to back off the coffee.

[nortman]

Make truckloads of cash the capitalist way.

[BillBrown]

Star Wars: What was Lucas trying to accomplish?

Box office.

[OldSchoolConservative]

It looks to me that the entire Star Wars movie was a liberal exercise to understand the bad guy. In the first scene of Episode IV - A New Hope, we are introduced to one bad guy, Darth Vader, he likes to choke people to death by using the Force, and so George Lucas set up this challenge for himself, he created this villain and over the next 5 movies including three prequels, he tries to understand how Darth Vader became this way.

Now tell me, is this a realistic way to understand evil? Are some people just born bad, or is there always a logical and reasonable explaination of how the villian became so bad? How well does George Lucas explain how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader?

Not everything is political. It is simple that in 1977 Lucas did not have the technology to tell the story in the visual sense and setting that he wanted to. By 1998 such technology was in place thanks to mega advances in computer advances. Thus Lucas made the prequels but the problem is that what made the original trilogy so great was great characterization to go along with above special effects of the time. The prequels almost looked too cartoonish with average characterization. Let's just be thankful that the original trilogy was as superb as it was. If I am not mistaken Lucas always had the backstory to Anakin Skywalker but did not have the technological means at the time to tell the story like he wanted to. Not everything is political.

[Vaard]

it was just a movie.. like american graffitti was a movie and the indiana jones series were just movies.....


what he was trying to accomplish was to tell a good story and make alot of money.........

[AutoRacer55]

He was trying to make money, which he did. Multitudes of it.

[Sinister Rouge]

It looks to me that the entire Star Wars movie was a liberal exercise to understand the bad guy. In the first scene of Episode IV - A New Hope, we are introduced to one bad guy, Darth Vader, he likes to choke people to death by using the Force, and so George Lucas set up this challenge for himself, he created this villain and over the next 5 movies including three prequels, he tries to understand how Darth Vader became this way.

Now tell me, is this a realistic way to understand evil? Are some people just born bad, or is there always a logical and reasonable explaination of how the villian became so bad? How well does George Lucas explain how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader?


There are plenty of tragedies based on watching the development of a villain. To me, it's more exciting to watch a villain develop than a hero.
You're reading too much into the story.

[grapabeaux]

Meh. The OP has something of a point. The original movie was more a paean to the old movie serials like "Flash Gordon", where the good guys and bad guys were clearly defined, with a dash of feel-good mysticism thrown in. The further along in the Star Wars series, there was more room for backstories, meaning where the characters came from and what they had to do to overcome the challenge.

A lot of this was, by Lucas's own account, influenced by the Joseph Campbell studies of myths. From Wiki: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell#Popular_culture)

I [Lucas] came to the conclusion after American Graffiti (http://forums.hannity.com/wiki/American_Graffiti) that what's valuable for me is to set standards, not to show people the world the way it is...around the period of this realization...it came to me that there really was no modern use of mythology...The Western (http://forums.hannity.com/wiki/Western_(genre)) was possibly the last generically American fairy tale (http://forums.hannity.com/wiki/Fairy_tale), telling us about our values. And once the Western disappeared, nothing has ever taken its place. In literature we were going off into science fiction (http://forums.hannity.com/wiki/Science_fiction)...so that's when I started doing more strenuous research on fairy tales, folklore (http://forums.hannity.com/wiki/Folklore), and mythology (http://forums.hannity.com/wiki/Mythology), and I started reading Joe's books. Before that I hadn't read any of Joe's books...It was very eerie because in reading The Hero with a Thousand Faces (http://forums.hannity.com/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thousand_Faces) I began to realize that my first draft of Star Wars (http://forums.hannity.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_IV:_A_New_Hope) was following classic motifs...so I modified my next draft [of Star Wars] according to what I'd been learning about classical motifs and made it a little bit more consistent...I went on to read 'The Masks of God' and many other books.[24] (http://forums.hannity.com/#cite_note-23)
As for your question about what this means about evil, I think you're creating a false dilemma, and I think most reasons for evil are somewhere in between being born that way and there being a logical reason for being evil.

I don't the Darth Vader character was intended to be the product of either, but the addition of a back story, if it's done right, can create a more nuanced character study between the hero and villain. But not every good story like this needs that to be good.

Sometimes, it would take away from the center of the story. For instance, if the Joker in The Dark Knight had been given a backstory as complicated as Darth Vader's, it would have sucked the life out of the main story. The sociopathology and anti-social behavior of the Joker is so obvious, and the causes of sociopathology are so varying, that we don't need to know why he's evil; we just need to know that he's evil.

As for how this relates to examining real-life evil, I think any details we know are helpful, simply because the more we know, the easier it can be prevented before it happens.

(I need more coffee.)

[JohnRandolph]

It looks to me that the entire Star Wars movie was a liberal exercise to understand the bad guy. In the first scene of Episode IV - A New Hope, we are introduced to one bad guy, Darth Vader, he likes to choke people to death by using the Force, and so George Lucas set up this challenge for himself, he created this villain and over the next 5 movies including three prequels, he tries to understand how Darth Vader became this way.

Now tell me, is this a realistic way to understand evil? Are some people just born bad, or is there always a logical and reasonable explaination of how the villian became so bad? How well does George Lucas explain how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader?



Its an old fashioned serial western from the 1940s like my dad used to go see for a quarter, reset as a science fiction story.

[LibertarianDude]

It looks to me that the entire Star Wars movie was a liberal exercise to understand the bad guy. In the first scene of Episode IV - A New Hope, we are introduced to one bad guy, Darth Vader, he likes to choke people to death by using the Force, and so George Lucas set up this challenge for himself, he created this villain and over the next 5 movies including three prequels, he tries to understand how Darth Vader became this way.

Now tell me, is this a realistic way to understand evil? Are some people just born bad, or is there always a logical and reasonable explaination of how the villian became so bad? How well does George Lucas explain how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader?

According the Lucas. It was either make Star Wars or work at his dad's hardware store.

The artist reviewers say that Star Wars is mythology in space. Lucas did borrow a lot from mythology.

[uncledoom]

Capitalism at it's finest....still making money 30 years later.

He wasn't only trying...he succeeded.

[Wilhelm Scream]

It looks to me that the entire Star Wars movie was a liberal exercise to understand the bad guy. In the first scene of Episode IV - A New Hope, we are introduced to one bad guy, Darth Vader, he likes to choke people to death by using the Force, and so George Lucas set up this challenge for himself, he created this villain and over the next 5 movies including three prequels, he tries to understand how Darth Vader became this way.


What are you talking about? There were only 3 Star Wars movies! Just three. That's it.

[Buffalo]

It looks to me that the entire Star Wars movie was a liberal exercise to understand the bad guy. In the first scene of Episode IV - A New Hope, we are introduced to one bad guy, Darth Vader, he likes to choke people to death by using the Force, and so George Lucas set up this challenge for himself, he created this villain and over the next 5 movies including three prequels, he tries to understand how Darth Vader became this way.

Now tell me, is this a realistic way to understand evil? Are some people just born bad, or is there always a logical and reasonable explaination of how the villian became so bad? How well does George Lucas explain how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader?
Jeez. not even close.

[Apatriot]

It looks to me that the entire Star Wars movie was a liberal exercise to understand the bad guy. In the first scene of Episode IV - A New Hope, we are introduced to one bad guy, Darth Vader, he likes to choke people to death by using the Force, and so George Lucas set up this challenge for himself, he created this villain and over the next 5 movies including three prequels, he tries to understand how Darth Vader became this way.

Now tell me, is this a realistic way to understand evil? Are some people just born bad, or is there always a logical and reasonable explaination of how the villian became so bad? How well does George Lucas explain how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader?

I think Lucas was trying to tell a good story. He wasn't examining good vs. evil.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

It looks to me that the entire Star Wars movie was a liberal exercise to understand the bad guy. In the first scene of Episode IV - A New Hope, we are introduced to one bad guy, Darth Vader, he likes to choke people to death by using the Force, and so George Lucas set up this challenge for himself, he created this villain and over the next 5 movies including three prequels, he tries to understand how Darth Vader became this way.

Now tell me, is this a realistic way to understand evil? Are some people just born bad, or is there always a logical and reasonable explaination of how the villian became so bad? How well does George Lucas explain how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader?
Goal #1- Make ****load of money

Goal #2- Make movie that will assist in accomplishing Goal #1.

[super cool ski instructor]

The rise and fall of evil...it is a story as old as time itself...

[Stantz]

make enough money to fit in that insane neck of his?

[iamredbeard]

The rise and fall of evil...it is a story as old as time itself...

You couldn't be more wrong. :naughty: It's a story about the love that a son has for his father. :cool:

Everyone in the rebel alliance (especially his jedi mentors in the afterlife) want him to take down Vader, but he refuses to kill him, even if it means that his own life comes to an end, then the father returns the favor to the son. Although it easy to see it as the rise and fall of evil, it's really the story of the love that a son has for his father.

[Dragon1963]

Frankly, people who dissect movies for their political point of view are just as bad as movie makers like Michael Moore who actually put their political views into their movies. Both types need to get a life.

[uncledoom]

Frankly, people who dissect movies for their political point of view are just as bad as movie makers like Michael Moore who actually put their political views into their movies. Both types need to get a life.

Isn't it funny that he makes a movie about the evils of capitalism....but then insists on charging people to see it?

[Sinister Rouge]

The rise and fall of evil...it is a story as old as time itself...


/Thread.

So who was hotter? Liea or Padme?

I'm going to go with Leia--you can't beat that gold bikini in Return of the Jedi.

[JediMindTrick]

It looks to me that the entire Star Wars movie was a liberal exercise to understand the bad guy. In the first scene of Episode IV - A New Hope, we are introduced to one bad guy, Darth Vader, he likes to choke people to death by using the Force, and so George Lucas set up this challenge for himself, he created this villain and over the next 5 movies including three prequels, he tries to understand how Darth Vader became this way.

Now tell me, is this a realistic way to understand evil? Are some people just born bad, or is there always a logical and reasonable explaination of how the villian became so bad? How well does George Lucas explain how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader?

:)) I guess you believe that George Lucas was the first storyteller to ever tell a story about a good character gone bad.

Your probably also one of those who think the plotlines of the sequels were written about George Bush even though the plot was firmly established as far back as 1983 when Return of the Jedi came out.

[brody]

I find it amusing that the "Star Wars Mythology" (or whatever it's called) documentary on the History Channel seems to imply that Lucas had all of these grand inspirations based on Greek and other mythologies.

He came up with a story, made a movie, and made lots of money.

End of analysis.

[BrittleBullet]

/Thread.

So who was hotter? Liea or Padme?

I'm going to go with Leia--you can't beat that gold bikini in Return of the Jedi.

Padme.

But only because I have a crush on Natalie Portman.

[super cool ski instructor]

/Thread.

So who was hotter? Liea or Padme?

I'm going to go with Leia--you can't beat that gold bikini in Return of the Jedi.

Dude...I'm a chick. It is more like Han or Lando. I'm going with Han because anybody who can say "I know" when someone tells you they love you...is damn cool! :))

[Dragon1963]

/Thread.

So who was hotter? Liea or Padme?

I'm going to go with Leia--you can't beat that gold bikini in Return of the Jedi.

But imagine Pademe in that gold bikini. Grrrowl....

[JediMindTrick]

I've never understood the fascination some have with Carrie Fisher in that bikini. As my user name might imply I'm a bit of a Star Wars nerd, I'm old enough to have seen the movies in the theaters during their first run, but I never got into her.

[super cool ski instructor]

I find it amusing that the "Star Wars Mythology" (or whatever it's called) documentary on the History Channel seems to imply that Lucas had all of these grand inspirations based on Greek and other mythologies.

He came up with a story, made a movie, and made lots of money.

End of analysis.

Looking at Greek Tragedies one can surely see the comparisons between them and Star Wars. It is not that far fetched to imagine Lucas looked to them as inspirations...all writers get inspiration from somewhere.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

But imagine Pademe in that gold bikini. Grrrowl....
How has no one photoshopped a picture of Natalie Portman into that gold bikini?

[super cool ski instructor]

Sigh...y'all are perverts....

[Hoobeedoo Bejesus]

It's a tragedy inspired by the works of Kurosawa.

Get a ****ing clue.

[MR. MISTER]

It's a tragedy inspired by the works of Kurosawa.

Get a ****ing clue.
Found this a while ago -

http://www.moongadget.com/origins/kurosawa.html

[JediMindTrick]

How has no one photoshopped a picture of Natalie Portman into that gold bikini?

Nah, Aunt Beru though . . . . now there is a hottie. :cool:

[Hoobeedoo Bejesus]

Found this a while ago -

http://www.moongadget.com/origins/kurosawa.html

Kurosawa's works are amazing.

They may seem a bit dated now, but it was groundbreaking for his time.

My favorite is Rashomon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashomon_(film)

[MR. MISTER]

Kurosawa's works are amazing.

They may seem a bit dated now, but it was groundbreaking for his time.

My favorite is Rashomon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashomon_(film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashomon_%28film))
IFC shows samurai films every Saturday am (Samurai Saturdays)

Rashomon will be on Oct 31.

http://forums.hannity.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=62118451

[MR. MISTER]

Frankly, people who dissect movies for their political point of view are just as bad as movie makers like Michael Moore who actually put their political views into their movies. Both types need to get a life.
I didn't discover this....BUT -

in the episodes 1-3, the Jedis' light sabers are either green or blue, the Siths' are red.

Just sayin'. :think:

[Dragon1963]

I didn't discover this....BUT -

in the episodes 1-3, the Jedis' light sabers are either green or blue, the Siths' are red.

Just sayin'. :think:

That's only because the Sith are going through their mid life crisis stage. The red lightsaber is the Force's equivalent of the red sports car. :D

[Vaard]

I didn't discover this....BUT -

in the episodes 1-3, the Jedis' light sabers are either green or blue, the Siths' are red.

Just sayin'. :think:

and in cowboy movies, the good guys wore white hats and the bad guys wore black.......