Should Israel build its temple where the dome is?

[darknessesedge]

should the dome be moved and let Israel build its temple on the spot that God has designated for it?

[byzantine catholic]

No.

[RayMan]

Can you say "Jihad," boys and girls?

[byzantine catholic]

The Muslims would kill every single Jew if that happens.

[cyberdalekyeti]

YES!!! Israel should destroy the Dome of the Rock and then build the temple exactly at that spot where it belongs.

[CID_0687]

I don't think so Tim.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/andrewinsuresal/tool-time-002.jpg

[lwdc]

Why?

[Finality]

No. Unnecessary violence ensues.

[Abe]

should the dome be moved and let Israel build its temple on the spot that God has designated for it?Hell NO!!!

[darknessesedge]

The Muslims would kill every single Jew if that happens.

I dont see Israel losing to any of the arab states in a war.

[darknessesedge]

YES!!! Israel should destroy the Dome of the Rock and then build the temple exactly at that spot where it belongs.

Amen bro!
God gave the Israel people the land.

[darknessesedge]

No. Unnecessary violence ensues.

to late...there has been violence there since day 1

[Abe]

The Muslims would kill every single Jew if that happens.They would certainly try, and then we'd retaliate, and then they'd retaliate, and then we'd retaliate, and then...

It's their Mosque. We should leave it alone.

[Abe]

YES!!! Israel should destroy the Dome of the Rock and then build the temple exactly at that spot where it belongs.

:rolleyes:

[Voxpopuli]

The obvious answer is no.

Does the O.P. think it is a good thing to instigate a situation that would result in the death of many?

[Abe]

I don't think so Tim.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/andrewinsuresal/tool-time-002.jpg
:))

[RayMan]

The obvious answer is no.

Does the O.P. think it is a good thing to instigate a situation that would result in the death of many?

Possibly. But one can hope that the O.P. simply didn't think this one through.

[Abe]

I dont see Israel losing to any of the arab states in a war.Why invite an unnecessary war? Especially when the vast majority of Israelis don't care about a temple, and most of the Orthodox ones are against it.

[lwdc]

Possibly. But one can hope that the O.P. simply didn't think this one through.Or, he did...
I dont see Israel losing to any of the arab states in a war.But it doesn't seem to bother him.

[byzantine catholic]

To the OP: the new Temple of Jerusalem will not signal Christ's return.;)

[Abe]

to late...there has been violence there since day 1The violence there is nothing compared to what would be if we actually harmed the Mosques.

[Andrew_980]

Some people just want to see the crusades make a comeback

[Abe]

Possibly. But one can hope that the O.P. simply didn't think this one through.You are too kind.

[RayMan]

You are too kind.

Yeah, I know.

[RayMan]

Some people just want to see the crusades make a comeback

Yeah. They're pining for the good old days.

[Abe]

Yeah, I know.:rolleyes:

[darknessesedge]

The obvious answer is no.

Does the O.P. think it is a good thing to instigate a situation that would result in the death of many?

not at all.
I posted for a discussion..
I wanted to hear views..

[RayMan]

Hell NO!!!

Are you sure about that? :think:


I mean, come on. It's just the Dome of the Rock. The oldest extant Islamic building in the world and one of the holiest spots of the Islamic faith.

I am sure the Mullahs, Imams and Ahmanutjob would be amenable to reason on this one.

[darknessesedge]

Why invite an unnecessary war? Especially when the vast majority of Israelis don't care about a temple, and most of the Orthodox ones are against it.

the people of Israel want their temple..
they have been working on it for a long time now..

[Voxpopuli]

not at all.
I posted for a discussion..
I wanted to hear views..

So then you also would oppose this?

[darknessesedge]

To the OP: the new Temple of Jerusalem will not signal Christ's return.;)

I know that.

[darknessesedge]

So then you also would oppose this?

I didnt say that either.
the site belongs to Israel.

[Voxpopuli]

I didnt say that either.
the site belongs to Israel.

Well, what are you saying? Would you morally support an action that would surely result in the death of many?

[darknessesedge]

Well, what are you saying? Would you morally support an action that would surely result in the death of many?

I didnt say Israel to take it back by force..I asked if the dome should be moved..
so that Israel can build its temple where God has designated its place.
that can be done peacefully.
depends if people wish to make concessions to keep the peace..

[RayMan]

the people of Israel want their temple..
they have been working on it for a long time now..

Let me see now. Abe who is Jewish, born and raised in Israel and fought in at least one of her wars against the Arabs says one thing about the desire of Israeli Jews.

You, who are none of the above, say the opposite.


Who should I go with here..?


Decisions, decision.

[RayMan]

I didnt say Israel to take it back by force..I asked if the dome should be moved..
so that Israel can build its temple where God has designated its place.
that can be done peacefully.
depends if people wish to make concessions to keep the peace..


The Arabs have made it clear for 61 years that they have no desire to make any concessions to keep the peace with Israel.

[Voxpopuli]

I didnt say Israel to take it back by force..I asked if the dome should be moved..
so that Israel can build its temple where God has designated its place.
that can be done peacefully.
depends if people wish to make concessions to keep the peace..

Come now, I am aware of your political leanings, and they are not this Utopian.

[Abe]

the people of Israel want their temple..
they have been working on it for a long time now..Listen carefully:

Most Israelis are secular. They are already mighty peeved that religious authorities are intruding too much. They would be up in arms to prevent religion getting even more powerful, which it would, given a temple.

Most of the religious Jews pray for a temple, but would do nothing to build one because the political power Rabbis have today would be split with the Priests. The Rabbis would lose power and that would be unacceptable.

There is a tiny, (very tiny), group of "Temple Faithful" that hope for a temple in our lifetime. Politically, they don't exist. Israel upholds the Muslim claim to the Temple Mount.

[darknessesedge]

Let me see now. Abe who is Jewish, born and raised in Israel and fought in at least one of her wars against the Arabs says one thing about the desire of Israeli Jews.

You, who are none of the above, say the opposite.


Who should I go with here..?


Decisions, decision.

I go with the reports I read, and see...
www.cbn.com/media/player/search.aspx?t=k&search=++erin+zimmerman - 33k

[darknessesedge]

The Arabs have made it clear for 61 years that they have no desire to make any concessions to keep the peace with Israel.

not exactly..
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/News.aspx/1275

In a very controversial move, Rabbis and Moslems are discussing cooperation in building a house of worship on the Temple Mount for all people of the world. Some are calling it the "Palace of Solomon" or the Third Temple, however this cooperation comes with 'conditions'. Is this the right way to go about building the Third Temple? Tamar speaks with Rabbi Yeshayahu HaKohen Hollander as he explains his position.

[darknessesedge]

Listen carefully:

Most Israelis are secular. They are already mighty peeved that religious authorities are intruding too much. They would be up in arms to prevent religion getting even more powerful, which it would, given a temple.

Most of the religious Jews pray for a temple, but would do nothing to build one because the political power Rabbis have today would be split with the Priests. The Rabbis would lose power and that would be unacceptable.

There is a tiny, (very tiny), group of "Temple Faithful" that hope for a temple in our lifetime. Politically, they don't exist. Israel upholds the Muslim claim to the Temple Mount.

listen carefully..
I go with the reports I read, and see...
http://www.cbn.com/media/player/sear...erin+zimmerman - 33k

[Abe]

I didnt say Israel to take it back by force..That would have to be the first step if we wanted to move the mosques.

I asked if the dome should be moved..No!


so that Israel can build its temple where God has designated its place.The State of Israel doesn't care.


that can be done peacefully.No it can't.


depends if people wish to make concessions to keep the peace.. You're kidding, right? It's the Middle-East...

[Abe]

listen carefully..
I go with the reports I read, and see...
http://www.cbn.com/media/player/sear...erin+zimmerman - 33k

"The web page cannot be found."

I go with my statement.

[darknessesedge]

"The web page cannot be found."

I go with my statement.

sorry bout that..
I got it now..and I checked it..

http://www.cbn.com/media/player/index.aspx?s=/vod/EZ3_WPatsComments_040308&search=rebuilding%20the%20temple&p=1&parent=0&subnav=false

[RayMan]

"The web page cannot be found."

I go with my statement.


The link takes you to the main video page at CBN - i.e. Christian Broadcasting Network - i.e. 700 Club - i.e. Pat Robertson.

It just goes to an index page rather than a particular video report.

Very helpful. ;)

[darknessesedge]

The link takes you to the main video page at CBN - i.e. Christian Broadcasting Network - i.e. 700 Club - i.e. Pat Robertson.

It just goes to an index page rather than a particular video report.

Very helpful. ;)

I put the correct link in just now.
http://www.cbn.com/media/player/index.aspx?s=/vod/EZ3_WPatsComments_040308&search=rebuilding%20the%20temple&p=1&parent=0&subnav=false

[Abe]

not exactly..
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/News.aspx/1275

In a very controversial move, Rabbis and Moslems are discussing cooperation in building a house of worship on the Temple Mount for all people of the world. Some are calling it the "Palace of Solomon" or the Third Temple, however this cooperation comes with 'conditions'. Is this the right way to go about building the Third Temple? Tamar speaks with Rabbi Yeshayahu HaKohen Hollander as he explains his position.

That channel "Arutz Sheva'" ערוץ שבע (Channel - 7), represents the settler movement in the WB. It is NOT an official Israeli news agency, and it has a whopping agenda. It has avery small minority audience.

Darkness, you're talking about my country. I know exactly what's going on. The average Israeli voter doesn't want it, and would FIGHT to prevent it.

[RayMan]

I put the correct link in just now.
http://www.cbn.com/media/player/index.aspx?s=/vod/EZ3_WPatsComments_040308&search=rebuilding%20the%20temple&p=1&parent=0&subnav=false


Thanks.

[darknessesedge]

That channel "Arutz Sheva'" ערוץ שבע (Channel - 7), represents the settler movement in the WB. It is NOT an official Israeli news agency, and it has a whopping agenda. It has avery small minority audience.

Darkness, you're talking about my country. I know exactly what's going on. The average Israeli voter doesn't want it, and would FIGHT to prevent it.

why would the people of Israel not want the temple rebuilt then?

[Abe]

I put the correct link in just now.
http://www.cbn.com/media/player/index.aspx?s=/vod/EZ3_WPatsComments_040308&search=rebuilding%20the%20temple&p=1&parent=0&subnav=falseI went there. I catch CBN occasionally on TV, when someone hog(oops)ties me and forces me to watch. Pat has no idea what Israelis think. He may have a cute scene of some Rabbi who wants a temple, or some loonies who are making the trappings of the High Priest, but these are a tiny, infinitesimal group. The majority, (and even the minorities), would bury them in a second.

[darknessesedge]

That channel "Arutz Sheva'" ערוץ שבע (Channel - 7), represents the settler movement in the WB. It is NOT an official Israeli news agency, and it has a whopping agenda. It has avery small minority audience.

Darkness, you're talking about my country. I know exactly what's going on. The average Israeli voter doesn't want it, and would FIGHT to prevent it.

64% of Israelis want Temple rebuilt
Even half of secular Jews say time is right

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105629

[darknessesedge]

seems that some muslims want the temple rebuilt also..

Muslim leader wants Temple rebuilt
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106055

[Voxpopuli]

I just watched that video. I am curious how many of the views of Chaim Richman are held by the common Israeli. http://www.lttn.org/articleindx.html

[Stantz]

build a new Temple? are you kidding me?
Ariel Sharon just visiting the temple mount caused the 2nd Intifadah
And i don't know about you, but i'm not in favor of demolishing one religion's holy shrine that has been in existence since the 7th century in favor of another religion's .

No , no one should tear down the Dome of the Rock any more then they should tear down the Kaaba or St Peter's Basilica .

[RayMan]

So Abe,
I was thinking that the majority of observant Jews, say like Poison or Harmonious, expect Messiah to build the temple after he comes and brings world peace.

Is that just my faulty memory at work or is it somewhere near the mark?

[Abe]

why would the people of Israel not want the temple rebuilt then?I gave a few talking points earlier. You must have blown past them.

Most Israelis are secular. They resent not having movies in the cinema on Friday night. They resent not having public transportation, in most towns, on Shabbat. They resent having to accept religious rules when giving birth, marrying and dying. They want freedom from religion, not more power to the religious authorities.

The leaders of the religious parties are Rabbis. They jealously guard their political clout, and the fact that they are, often, the kingmakers of Israel's govts. because they are needed in governing coalitions. Should a temple be built, they would lose their power to the Priests and the Levites. Unacceptable. This is why even the religious would, for the most part, be against a temple.

You neither know nor understand Israeli society. Neither does Pat Robertson.

[RayMan]

It's a little difficult for me to believe that Pat is reading the pulse of the average Israeli on this subject. He isn't exactly Mr. Sensitive to Israeli Feelings.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Israel is pulling out of a 50 million dollar deal with US TV evangelist Pat Robertson after he said Ariel Sharon's stroke was divine retribution. Tourism Ministry spokesman Ido Hartuv said Israel would not sign a contract with Mr Robertson to build a biblical theme park by the Sea of Galilee.

http://www.religion.info/english/articles/article_221.shtml

[Abe]

So Abe,
I was thinking that the majority of observant Jews, say like Poison or Harmonious, expect Messiah to build the temple after he comes and brings world peace.

Is that just my faulty memory at work or is it somewhere near the mark?

It's right on the money. The Messiah will move or destroy the Mosques, and build the Temple.

[darknessesedge]

I gave a few talking points earlier. You must have blown past them.

Most Israelis are secular. They resent not having movies in the cinema on Friday night. They resent not having public transportation, in most towns, on Shabbat. They resent having to accept religious rules when giving birth, marrying and dying. They want freedom from religion, not more power to the religious authorities.

The leaders of the religious parties are Rabbis. They jealously guard their political clout, and the fact that they are, often, the kingmakers of Israel's govts. because they are needed in governing coalitions. Should a temple be built, they would lose their power to the Priests and the Levites. Unacceptable. This is why even the religious would, for the most part, be against a temple.

You neither know nor understand Israeli society. Neither does Pat Robertson.

it was not robertson, it was those they interviewed in Israel.

[RayMan]

it was not robertson, it was those they interviewed in Israel.

And videos from CBN aren't loaded to project Pat's opinions. :cool:

[Stantz]

I gave a few talking points earlier. You must have blown past them.

Most Israelis are secular. They resent not having movies in the cinema on Friday night. They resent not having public transportation, in most towns, on Shabbat. They resent having to accept religious rules when giving birth, marrying and dying. They want freedom from religion, not more power to the religious authorities.

The leaders of the religious parties are Rabbis. They jealously guard their political clout, and the fact that they are, often, the kingmakers of Israel's govts. because they are needed in governing coalitions. Should a temple be built, they would lose their power to the Priests and the Levites. Unacceptable. This is why even the religious would, for the most part, be against a temple.

You neither know nor understand Israeli society. Neither does Pat Robertson.
100% right on the money.
Israel for the most part is a VERY secular nation, the main reason for the religious party influence in Israeli politics is that they are usually integral in forming Kenneset coalitions.

[Abe]

64% of Israelis want Temple rebuilt
Even half of secular Jews say time is right

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105629

WND? You've got to be kidding.

[darknessesedge]

It's right on the money. The Messiah will move or destroy the Mosques, and build the Temple.

I thought that the temple will be built, then the antichrist will come and stop the sacrifises..
during the trib.

Daniel 9:27 (NIV)
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

[darknessesedge]

And videos from CBN aren't loaded to project Pat's opinions. :cool:

I believe that the people want the temple rebuilt.
and there is evidence of this beyond cbn.

[Stantz]

I believe that the people want the temple rebuilt.
and there is evidence of this beyond cbn.
In Israel the people who want the temple built are a fringe minority at best.

[RayMan]

I thought that the temple will be built, then the antichrist will come and stop the sacrifises..
during the trib.

Daniel 9:27 (NIV)
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

I think you will find that the Jewish understanding of that Scripture is somewhat different than the pre-trib rapture Christian understanding of it.

All those Jews in Israel? They believe the Jewish interpretation.


Yeah, they're just funny like that.

[Abe]

it was not robertson, it was those they interviewed in Israel.

How many of those interviwed were the majority secular Jews from the cities? How many were Left-wing Kibbutz members?

[darknessesedge]

WND? You've got to be kidding.

I gave you links with quotes..and you give me what you feel..

[Voxpopuli]

And videos from CBN aren't loaded to project Pat's opinions. :cool:

Pre-Trib, Christian Zionism, The Left Behind series, etc...

[darknessesedge]

In Israel the people who want the temple built are a fringe minority at best.

Im reading/read articles that sya 64% want the temple rebuilt.
hardly fringe..

[Abe]

I thought that the temple will be built, then the antichrist will come and stop the sacrifises..
during the trib.

Daniel 9:27 (NIV)
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

You may see the Anti-Christ here. We don't. Has anybody explained to you that Jews don't believe in the divinity an/or the messiahship of Jesus?

Has anybody explained to you that Christians and Jews interpret the Tanakh differently?

[darknessesedge]

You may see the Anti-Christ here. We don't. Has anybody explained to you that Jews don't believe in the divinity an/or the messiahship of Jesus?

Has anybody explained to you that Christians and Jews interpret the Tanakh differently?

I know that they do..

[Abe]

Im reading/read articles that sya 64% want the temple rebuilt.
hardly fringe..Stanz and I are from Israel. We know exactly what is going on...

[darknessesedge]

Stanz and I are from Israel. We know exactly what is going on...

do you believe that where the dome sits, is where the Temple used to sit?

[Abe]

do you believe that where the dome sits, is where the Temple used to sit?No, I believe that the Temple stood quite a bit behind where the Mosque is. Immaterial, the whole Temple Mount is sacred to both Muslims and Jews.

There is a reason that most Rabbis forbid their congregations to enter the Temple Mount. When the Temple was destroyed, many of the holy relics were scattered. You could be stepping above a Torah scroll, or other sacred object.

[darknessesedge]

No, I believe that the Temple stood quite a bit behind where the Mosque is. Immaterial, the whole Temple Mount is sacred to both Muslims and Jews.

There is a reason that most Rabbis forbid their congregations to enter the Temple Mount. When the Temple was destroyed, many of the holy relics were scattered. You could be stepping above a Torah scroll, or other sacred object.

do you want the temple to be rebuilt?

[Abe]

do you want the temple to be rebuilt?no!!!

[darknessesedge]

no!!!

even if the muslims allowed it?

[Abe]

even if the muslims allowed it?

Even if they allowed it.

[darknessesedge]

Even if they allowed it.

why not?

[Abe]

why not?I don't want the religious parties to be even stronger than they are. I want Israel to be more secular because it's a multi-ethnic society. I want to have civil marriages.
I'm a secular Israeli. I don't want orders from a Priest.

[darknessesedge]

I don't want the religious parties to be even stronger than they are. I want Israel to be more secular because it's a multi-ethnic society. I want to have civil marriages.
I'm a secular Israeli. I don't want orders from a Priest.

ok..I understand now...
thanks for the discussion...

[Abe]

ok..I understand now...
thanks for the discussion...

You're welcome.

[GMScott]

If I'm not mistaken, I'm trying to find the Scripture to back this up, there will be a "new" discovery concerning the foundation of the Holy temple which will allow the rebuilding of the temple without having to destroy the Dome of the Rock. This will be part of the 7 year peace treaty, a false peace treaty nonetheless, between the warring factions in the ME. The "new" discovery concerning the Temple's foundation will be a lie to bring about the false peace between Israel and the Muslims.

It doesn't take much of a historian to note that the enemies of Israel will never give up their quest to wipe Israel and the Jews from the face of the earth. The only solution is one from Heaven, the Messiah Himself. If He decides the Dome of the Rock must go, then go it will!!

Some interesting Biblical prophecy found here:

http://israelsmessiah.com/index.html

[lwdc]

I didnt say Israel to take it back by force..I asked if the dome should be moved..
so that Israel can build its temple where God has designated its place.
that can be done peacefully.
depends if people wish to make concessions to keep the peace..Chapter and verse.

Please.

[lwdc]

I go with the reports I read, and see...My friends who read salon.com say exactly that... and the National Enquirer.

[lwdc]

I believe that the people want the temple rebuilt.
and there is evidence of this beyond cbn.Yes. All eleven Israelis who want this have made their voices heard... along with eleven million "Christians" who yearn for war.

[beaker]

I don't want the religious parties to be even stronger than they are. I want Israel to be more secular because it's a multi-ethnic society. I want to have civil marriages.
I'm a secular Israeli. I don't want orders from a Priest.

I always thought, or at least have been taught this in church and small groups from an OT perspective is that God's idea of what government should be is a theocracy where man's idea is not the same. For example, thru the books of history in th OT, the people wanted kings, so God gave them kings. Some good, but most bad, and that is part of the reason that the Jews strayed from God and were punished. That the people took thier eyes off of God and put their faith in man and their false idiols and everything else the did wrong to displease God.

From a NT perspective, when the Messiah returns, he will set up his kingdom on the new earth, and be with his people, and rule in a Theocratic style set up.

So, I am kinda confused as to why most Jewish people wouldn't want a more religious based system of government if they are following the traditions and teaching of thier sacred text and beliefs.

I guess I don't understand since I am not familiar with modern day Israel. Or maybe, the time just isn't right yet for the Messiah's return.

[Jacob_Rising]

I always thought, or at least have been taught this in church and small groups from an OT perspective is that God's idea of what government should be is a theocracy where man's idea is not the same. For example, thru the books of history in th OT, the people wanted kings, so God gave them kings. Some good, but most bad, and that is part of the reason that the Jews strayed from God and were punished. That the people took thier eyes off of God and put their faith in man and their false idiols and everything else the did wrong to displease God.

From a NT perspective, when the Messiah returns, he will set up his kingdom on the new earth, and be with his people, and rule in a Theocratic style set up.

So, I am kinda confused as to why most Jewish people wouldn't want a more religious based system of government if they are following the traditions and teaching of thier sacred text and beliefs.

I guess I don't understand since I am not familiar with modern day Israel. Or maybe, the time just isn't right yet for the Messiah's return.

Abe is a Jew but he is not of the same mind as the Orthodox Jews in here that believe in a coming Theocracy.

I believe in a Coming Theocracy myself.

Ezekiel 37:24 '' David My servant shall be King over them, and they shall all{Judah and Ephraim} have one shepherd; They shall also walk in my Judgements and observe my statutes, and do them.''
So yes, a Messiah comes and sets up a renewed adherence to the Law and the Law goes from from Jerusalem to all the world.

Is this scripture about Jesus?

If he is the last Messiah to come, then this is what he will do.

[Stantz]

Yes. All eleven Israelis who want this have made their voices heard... along with eleven million "Christians" who yearn for war.
+1
That sums it up very nicely

[RayMan]

I don't want the religious parties to be even stronger than they are. I want Israel to be more secular because it's a multi-ethnic society. I want to have civil marriages.
I'm a secular Israeli. I don't want orders from a Priest.

If Israel becomes a theocracy again you should change your name to Theo. :cool:

[RayMan]

<snip>

I guess I don't understand since I am not familiar with modern day Israel. Or maybe, the time just isn't right yet for the Messiah's return.

C. All of the above. ;)

[byzantine catholic]

Yes. All eleven Israelis who want this have made their voices heard... along with eleven million "Christians" who yearn for war.The evangelicals who say that the new Temple will create the return of Christ.

[Finality]

I always thought, or at least have been taught this in church and small groups from an OT perspective is that God's idea of what government should be is a theocracy where man's idea is not the same. For example, thru the books of history in th OT, the people wanted kings, so God gave them kings. Some good, but most bad, and that is part of the reason that the Jews strayed from God and were punished. That the people took thier eyes off of God and put their faith in man and their false idiols and everything else the did wrong to displease God.

From a NT perspective, when the Messiah returns, he will set up his kingdom on the new earth, and be with his people, and rule in a Theocratic style set up.

So, I am kinda confused as to why most Jewish people wouldn't want a more religious based system of government if they are following the traditions and teaching of thier sacred text and beliefs.

I guess I don't understand since I am not familiar with modern day Israel. Or maybe, the time just isn't right yet for the Messiah's return.
I think you missed part of an earlier Abe-post or Stantz-post where they explain that the majority of Israelis are secular and don't want religious parties to have more power in Israel's gov't. That the secular Israelis already bemoan the absence of movies on Friday nights, and the state of transportation, etc.

And why would Jews care about a NT perspective?

[beaker]

I think you missed part of an earlier Abe-post or Stantz-post where they explain that the majority of Israelis are secular and don't want religious parties to have more power in Israel's gov't. That the secular Israelis already bemoan the absence of movies on Friday nights, and the state of transportation, etc.

I didn't miss it, I was just surprised to learn that the society over ther was mostly secular. I always thought and have been taught that Jewish faith and culture went hand in hand. That their religion was very much interwined with their culture. I had no idea that what Abe and Stanz had said was reality. And then when you take that information and apply it to what alot of Christians believe the prophecies tell about the end times, then what those Christians believe has to happen doesn't seem as plausible.


And why would Jews care about a NT perspective?

They wouldn't, just pointing out the idea of a Theocracy, stating what I interpret from the NT as to what is to happen in the future and comparing it to what God's idea of how the Jews were to govern themselves as opposed to how they actually did.

[Finality]

I didn't miss it, I was just surprised to learn that the society over ther was mostly secular. I always thought and have been taught that Jewish faith and culture went hand in hand. That their religion was very much interwined with their culture. I had no idea that what Abe and Stanz had said was reality. And then when you take that information and apply it to what alot of Christians believe the prophecies tell about the end times, then what those Christians believe has to happen doesn't seem as plausible.

They wouldn't, just pointing out the idea of a Theocracy, stating what I interpret from the NT as to what is to happen in the future and comparing it to what God's idea of how the Jews were to govern themselves as opposed to how they actually did.
OIC. Carry on. :)

[Harmonious]

should the dome be moved and let Israel build its temple on the spot that God has designated for it?Yup.

[Harmonious]

Are you sure about that? :think:


I mean, come on. It's just the Dome of the Rock. The oldest extant Islamic building in the world and one of the holiest spots of the Islamic faith.

I am sure the Mullahs, Imams and Ahmanutjob would be amenable to reason on this one.
Actually, I think the mosque at the Burial Cave of the Patriarchs is older.

Hmm... I've learned quite a bit about the Dome of the Rock. I've seen all kinds of pictures, and learned its history. It is quite beautiful, if spiteful in purpose.

If the building were lifted and transplanted, say, a mile away in an uninhabited section of land, I would cheer mightily for the building in its glory.

Somehow, though, I don't see that happening in anything short of a miracle.

[Harmonious]

Listen carefully:

Most Israelis are secular. They are already mighty peeved that religious authorities are intruding too much. They would be up in arms to prevent religion getting even more powerful, which it would, given a temple.

Most of the religious Jews pray for a temple, but would do nothing to build one because the political power Rabbis have today would be split with the Priests. The Rabbis would lose power and that would be unacceptable.

There is a tiny, (very tiny), group of "Temple Faithful" that hope for a temple in our lifetime. Politically, they don't exist. Israel upholds the Muslim claim to the Temple Mount.*sigh* :cry:

[Harmonious]

So Abe,
I was thinking that the majority of observant Jews, say like Poison or Harmonious, expect Messiah to build the temple after he comes and brings world peace.

Is that just my faulty memory at work or is it somewhere near the mark?
It's somewhere near the mark. Absolutely.

[RayMan]

It's somewhere near the mark. Absolutely.

:hug:

[Harmonious]

do you want the temple to be rebuilt?

I do.

[Harmonious]

:hug:
:hug:

[RayMan]

Actually, I think the mosque at the Burial Cave of the Patriarchs is older.

Hmm... I've learned quite a bit about the Dome of the Rock. I've seen all kinds of pictures, and learned its history. It is quite beautiful, if spiteful in purpose.

If the building were lifted and transplanted, say, a mile away in an uninhabited section of land, I would cheer mightily for the building in its glory.

Somehow, though, I don't see that happening in anything short of a miracle.

So much for my Dome of the Rock Wiki research...:cry:


Ditto. Which would be super cool BTW.

[meggers49]

I have heard from "somewhere" that it's possible that the temple actually was built in the opposite direction so that it wouldn't actually need to be built where the dome stands.

HOWEVER, it seems to me, that if God wants the Temple rebuilt, and He wants it where the Dome is, HE'LL make the building possible by removing the Dome.

God is a pretty clever guy, I'm sure He could handle it.

If and when the time comes for it, it will happen. I watch with interest..

[gpd®]

I have heard from "somewhere" that it's possible that the temple actually was built in the opposite direction so that it wouldn't actually need to be built where the dome stands.

HOWEVER, it seems to me, that if God wants the Temple rebuilt, and He wants it where the Dome is, HE'LL make the building possible by removing the Dome.

God is a pretty clever guy, I'm sure He could handle it.

If and when the time comes for it, it will happen. I watch with interest..

I also saw a special on a Christian station on a digging that was done about 150 feet away on Jewish territory that shows potential of being the actual center of the temple.

They found a few blocks with ancient carvings that may lead to the real temple. They need years though to be careful to catalog every pebble.

[nikoloslvy]

The Muslims would kill every single Jew if that happens.

dont wanna upset the muslims now do we? god forbid we step on the toes of the islamist's.maybe they should just buy a thousand teddy bears and call them mohamed.some cartoons would be nice to.

build damn you build.

[darknessesedge]

If I'm not mistaken, I'm trying to find the Scripture to back this up, there will be a "new" discovery concerning the foundation of the Holy temple which will allow the rebuilding of the temple without having to destroy the Dome of the Rock. This will be part of the 7 year peace treaty, a false peace treaty nonetheless, between the warring factions in the ME. The "new" discovery concerning the Temple's foundation will be a lie to bring about the false peace between Israel and the Muslims.

It doesn't take much of a historian to note that the enemies of Israel will never give up their quest to wipe Israel and the Jews from the face of the earth. The only solution is one from Heaven, the Messiah Himself. If He decides the Dome of the Rock must go, then go it will!!

Some interesting Biblical prophecy found here:

http://israelsmessiah.com/index.html

I have read that the dome might not sit where the Jewish Temple actually sits also..
the dome might be in the courtyard of the temple area..
but that was not in scripture..
the scripture that I think you are referring to is

Revelation 11

1I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. 2But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles.

[darknessesedge]

I always thought, or at least have been taught this in church and small groups from an OT perspective is that God's idea of what government should be is a theocracy where man's idea is not the same. For example, thru the books of history in th OT, the people wanted kings, so God gave them kings. Some good, but most bad, and that is part of the reason that the Jews strayed from God and were punished. That the people took thier eyes off of God and put their faith in man and their false idiols and everything else the did wrong to displease God.

From a NT perspective, when the Messiah returns, he will set up his kingdom on the new earth, and be with his people, and rule in a Theocratic style set up.

So, I am kinda confused as to why most Jewish people wouldn't want a more religious based system of government if they are following the traditions and teaching of thier sacred text and beliefs.

I guess I don't understand since I am not familiar with modern day Israel. Or maybe, the time just isn't right yet for the Messiah's return.

good post.

[darknessesedge]

Actually, I think the mosque at the Burial Cave of the Patriarchs is older.

Hmm... I've learned quite a bit about the Dome of the Rock. I've seen all kinds of pictures, and learned its history. It is quite beautiful, if spiteful in purpose.

If the building were lifted and transplanted, say, a mile away in an uninhabited section of land, I would cheer mightily for the building in its glory.

Somehow, though, I don't see that happening in anything short of a miracle.

with all that is happening right now, I am looking at it as a condition of peace between muslim and Israel...
one never knows what they will decide over to keep the peace.

[Abe]

I have read that the dome might not sit where the Jewish Temple actually sits also..
the dome might be in the courtyard of the temple area..
but that was not in scripture..
the scripture that I think you are referring to is

Revelation 11

1I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. 2But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles.The Temple was behind where the Mosque now stands. The Mosque wouldn't have to be torn down to rebuild the Temple, but there are many other factors involved, some that I've mentioned, and others that I haven't.

It's a very complicated issue.

[darknessesedge]

I also saw a special on a Christian station on a digging that was done about 150 feet away on Jewish territory that shows potential of being the actual center of the temple.

They found a few blocks with ancient carvings that may lead to the real temple. They need years though to be careful to catalog every pebble.

on cbn.com they are doing a series of rebuilding the temple, and the Jewish archaoligists are examining "junk/trash? that the muslims are dumping from the dome/temple area..
the video showed a very old Jewsih piece of money..believed to be like 1k yrs old...really cool..

[darknessesedge]

The Temple was behind where the Mosque now stands. The Mosque wouldn't have to be torn down to rebuild the Temple, but there are many other factors involved, some that I've mentioned, and others that I haven't.

It's a very complicated issue.

I know it is..

[Abe]

with all that is happening right now, I am looking at it as a condition of peace between muslim and Israel...
one never knows what they will decide over to keep the peace.

The problem in the ME is not religious.

[Jacob_Rising]

The problem in the ME is not religious.Thanks.

[gpd®]

The problem in the ME is not religious.

A "feud"would probably be an over simplification even for a simple mind like mind.

[Clintville]

why would the people of Israel not want the temple rebuilt then?
Because they are secular and don't want to incite more violence than there already is.

[RayMan]

A "feud"would probably be an over simplification even for a simple mind like mind.

Did you realize you stutter when you type?

[lwdc]

dont wanna upset the muslims now do we? god forbid we step on the toes of the islamist's.maybe they should just buy a thousand teddy bears and call them mohamed.some cartoons would be nice to.

build damn you build. ^
Rhodes Scholar

[gpd®]

Did you realize you stutter when you type?

dddddddddarn right!!!

[byzantine catholic]

dont wanna upset the muslims now do we? god forbid we step on the toes of the islamist's.maybe they should just buy a thousand teddy bears and call them mohamed.some cartoons would be nice to.

build damn you build.No you would not because there are a lot more Muslims than Jews and the two Islamic schisms would unite if the Dome of the Rock was moved. Bad, bad, bad situation.http://forums.hannity.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Clintville]

dont wanna upset the muslims now do we? god forbid we step on the toes of the islamist's.maybe they should just buy a thousand teddy bears and call them mohamed.some cartoons would be nice to.

build damn you build.
It wouldn't just be the extremists getting ****ed off.

[RayMan]

No you would not because there are a lot more Muslims than Jews and the two Islamic schisms would unite if the Dome of the Rock was moved. Bad, bad, bad situation.http://forums.hannity.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Right on the money there byz.

[Abe]

A "feud"would probably be an over simplification even for a simple mind like mind.The Palestinians are being manipulated. It's been going on since the 1920s. Their leaders manipulate them, the Islamic groups manipulate them, the Iranians and the Syrians manipulate them, the world powers manipulate them. They're incited with whatever will work. Religion is used as one of the tools for incitement. There are many others.

[gpd®]

The Palestinians are being manipulated. It's been going on since the 1920s. Their leaders manipulate them, the Islamic groups manipulate them, the Iranians and the Syrians manipulate them, the world powers manipulate them. They're incited with whatever will work. Religion is used as one of the tools for incitement. There are many others.

I'm getting it.

[Abe]

I'm getting it.But they haven't yet. That's the tragedy. They can change everything any time they want. Their children can have a life...

[gpd®]

But they haven't yet. That's the tragedy. They can change everything any time they want. Their children can have a life...

Am I to understand that they are just a mixture of people or is that propaganda? I tend to believe that they are mostly refugees from different parts of the ME.

[Abe]

Am I to understand that they are just a mixture of people or is that propaganda? I tend to believe that they are mostly refugees from different parts of the ME.Some have been in the area for centuries. Others started migrating in from all over the ME following WW1, after the Jews set up industries that needed manpower, thus supplying jobs. Yet more came in throughout the early half of the 20th Century.

After the refugee camps were put together, the refugees were mixed. Israel absorbed the Jewish refugees from various Arab countries. The Arab countries kept the Palestinian refugees in camps and did not permit them to be absorbed by the general population. Thus, generations have grown up in these conditions and have become bitter, and angry.

[byzantine catholic]

Right on the money there byz.Thank you.

[Harmonious]

But they haven't yet. That's the tragedy. They can change everything any time they want. Their children can have a life...

I think Golda Meir was right on the money. There will be peace in the Middle East when they love their children more than they hate us.

[RayMan]

I think Golda Meir was right on the money. There will be peace in the Middle East when they love their children more than they hate us.

True dat.

It is so very sad, and so very hard for me with my California background to understand why they would rather have their children die in droves than to have peace and prosperity.

It is difficult for me to conceive of hatred and prejudice that runs that deep.

[RayMan]

dddddddddarn right!!!

;)

[lwdc]

I think Golda Meir was right on the money. There will be peace in the Middle East when they love their children more than they hate us.How many Palestinian suicide bombers do you know of were mothers and fathers?

All that I know of were childless, and barely of marriageable age.

What they did was detestable and inexcusable. But Golda Meir's hyperbolic soundbite adds NOTHING to understanding the issue.

[beaker]

I think Golda Meir was right on the money. There will be peace in the Middle East when they love their children more than they hate us.


Not necessary directed to you Harmonious, but a question to everyone.

There have been many world leaders who have tried to solve the Middle East peace problem.

Countless peace treaties, agreements, concessions.

Would you agree that the only way for peace to every be achieved, is for there to be a decisive victory?

[Harmonious]

True dat.

It is so very sad, and so very hard for me with my California background to understand why they would rather have their children die in droves than to have peace and prosperity.

It is difficult for me to conceive of hatred and prejudice that runs that deep.
I know.

But in Jewish history, it's business as usual. They are the people who hate the Jews this (and last) century...

Hopefully, in a generation or two, it won't move on to someone else, but will end completely.

[Harmonious]

How many Palestinian suicide bombers do you know of were mothers and fathers?

All that I know of were childless, and barely of marriageable age.True. But you see, the people being sent to BE suicide bombers are children of people who hate.

If the Palestinians loved their children, they would train them to live long lives and love their children. Not prepare them to be bomb fodder.

I don't know about you, but I've watched videos wherein at least one Palestinian mother had 13 children, and 9 of them were killed as suicide bombers. And she proudly announced that she would gladly give birth to hundreds more, to watch them blow themselves up "for the cause."

What they did was detestable and inexcusable. But Golda Meir's hyperbolic soundbite adds NOTHING to understanding the issue.No. It's not hyperbole. It is the deepest truth you can imagine.

Golda Meir's "sound-byte" sounds like someone who has lived in Israel and understand the issues there far more than you do.

[Conservatizzle]

They *will* build the third temple on the temple mount. It's just a question of when.

[Harmonious]

They *will* build the third temple on the temple mount. It's just a question of when.

Exactly.

[Harmonious]

Not necessary directed to you Harmonious, but a question to everyone.

There have been many world leaders who have tried to solve the Middle East peace problem.

Countless peace treaties, agreements, concessions.

Would you agree that the only way for peace to every be achieved, is for there to be a decisive victory?
I don't know.

[lwdc]

No. It's not hyperbole. It is the deepest truth you can imagine.

Golda Meir's "sound-byte" sounds like someone who has lived in Israel and understand the issues there far more than you do.No, I don't believe that Palestinians love their children any more or less than any other group of people love their own children. Just my opinion.

[Poisonshady313]

How many Palestinian suicide bombers do you know of were mothers and fathers?

All that I know of were childless, and barely of marriageable age.

What they did was detestable and inexcusable. But Golda Meir's hyperbolic soundbite adds NOTHING to understanding the issue.

I've seen videos of young Palestinian children having a discussion about martyrdom, where they declare it is the most glorious achievement.

They start learning, as early as three years old, that Jews are apes and pigs, and the greatest thing they can do to show their love for allah is to become a martyr, killing as many Jews as possible in the process.

They don't give birth to sons and daughters... they give birth to improvised explosion devices.... and they mourn when their children fail to blow themselves up (google Wafa al-Bis).

Golda Meir was right on the money.

[Harmonious]

No, I don't believe that Palestinians love their children any more or less than any other group of people love their own children. Just my opinion.
You haven't seen the children's shows where big animated figures (not unlike Barney, but different characters) that tell children to grow up to hate...

I'm not going to continue this line of conversation. Believe what you want. I'm sure you are right about some people who call themselves Palestinians.

When you watch small children of perhaps eight or nine talk about how they are proud to die to kill as many Jews as they can, or watch as many parents talk about how many children they will be willing to send to their deaths...

Please don't talk about that with me anymore. Believe what you want. Don't discuss it with me.

[Conservatizzle]

No, I don't believe that Palestinians love their children any more or less than any other group of people love their own children. Just my opinion.

I believe that the Palestinians that send their children to blow themselves up love their children less than I do. Just my opinion.

[lwdc]

I've seen videos of young Palestinian children having a discussion about martyrdom, where they declare it is the most glorious achievement.

They start learning, as early as three years old, that Jews are apes and pigs, and the greatest thing they can do to show their love for allah is to become a martyr, killing as many Jews as possible in the process.

They don't give birth to sons and daughters... they give birth to improvised explosion devices.... and they mourn when their children fail to blow themselves up (google Wafa al-Bis).

Golda Meir was right on the money.Even children can tell the difference between a man, an ape, and a pig. If you have kids and you've taken them to the zoo, then you know I speak the truth.

Terrorism is a terrible problem, no doubt, but don't believe everything you see in videos.

[lwdc]

I believe that the Palestinians that send their children to blow themselves up love their children less than I do. Just my opinion.Those Palestinians, yes. Agreed.

But Golda Meir spoke of Palestinians, or Arabs, in general, in her soundbite, and that isn't the same thing. I don't know which she was talking about.

Shady, was Golda Meir talking about Palestinian Arabs in general or Arabs in general?

[Abe]

True dat.

It is so very sad, and so very hard for me with my California background to understand why they would rather have their children die in droves than to have peace and prosperity.

It is difficult for me to conceive of hatred and prejudice that runs that deep.

It's not so much hatred as it is fatalism. My brother-in-law keeps in touch with ex-employees who became friends of the family. I know them well, and sometimes speak to them on the phone. My brother-in-law speaks to them once a week. We all have to be careful when speaking because Hamas listens, and our friends can get into trouble.

It's a strange, terrible, human tragedy.

[Poisonshady313]

Even children can tell the difference between a man, an ape, and a pig. If you have kids and you've taken them to the zoo, then you know I speak the truth.


And Palestinians teach their children that Jews are animals. They learn that Jews tried to kill the prophet Muhammad, and the only good Jew is a dead Jew.


Palestinians raise their children to hate and to kill themselves. That's the truth.

[Conservatizzle]

Those Palestinians, yes. Agreed.

But Golda Meir spoke of Palestinians, or Arabs, in general, in her soundbite, and that isn't the same thing. I don't know which she was talking about.

Shady, was Golda Meir talking about Palestinian Arabs in general or Arabs in general?


How many Palestinians do you think fit the description that I put forth? I think that it is the majority.

[Poisonshady313]

Those Palestinians, yes. Agreed.

But Golda Meir spoke of Palestinians, or Arabs, in general, in her soundbite, and that isn't the same thing. I don't know which she was talking about.

Shady, was Golda Meir talking about Palestinian Arabs in general or Arabs in general?

Palestinian Arabs.

[lwdc]

How many Palestinians do you think fit the description that I put forth? I think that it is the majority.You think that the majority of Palestinians think like that?

I won't even entertain any more ideas that come from your twisted mind. You make me sick.

[Abe]

Not necessary directed to you Harmonious, but a question to everyone.

There have been many world leaders who have tried to solve the Middle East peace problem.

Countless peace treaties, agreements, concessions.

Would you agree that the only way for peace to every be achieved, is for there to be a decisive victory?

I would not agree. The young people look around and see a life of nothingness ahead. They look at their parents. They have nothing. They are taught that it's all because of what the Jooz did to them.

What they need is a leader with the wisdom and those round things, who can enter their very veins and make them build a nation. It would help us too. We'd cooperate on water, agriculture, tourism, industry and more.

[Poisonshady313]

Terrorism is a terrible problem, no doubt, but don't believe everything you see in videos.

So then, in addition to manufacturing propaganda by staging fictional incidents of injury and death to make the world believe Israelis are relentlessly attacking them, they also stage fake interviews with Palestinian children to make it look like they teach their children to hate and kill Jews?

Seems counterproductive, wouldn't you say?

There's a difference between not believing everything, and not believing anything. And when someone tells you in their own words that they believe you're less than human and want nothing more than to die in an effort to kill you... you can believe that they mean it.

[Abe]

I would not agree. The young people look around and see a life of nothingness ahead. They look at their parents. They have nothing. They are taught that it's all because of what the Jooz did to them.

What they need is a leader with the wisdom and those round things, who can enter their very veins and make them build a nation. It would help us too. We'd cooperate on water, agriculture, tourism, industry and more.

There have been very decisive victories. The mentality is fatalism. "Allah wills it; so be it."

[lwdc]

i would not agree. The young people look around and see a life of nothingness ahead. They look at their parents. They have nothing. They are taught that it's all because of what the jooz did to them.

What they need is a leader with the wisdom and those round things, who can enter their very veins and make them build a nation. It would help us too. We'd cooperate on water, agriculture, tourism, industry and more.+1

[lwdc]

So then, in addition to manufacturing propaganda by staging fictional incidents of injury and death to make the world believe Israelis are relentlessly attacking them, they also stage fake interviews with Palestinian children to make it look like they teach their children to hate and kill Jews?

Seems counterproductive, wouldn't you say?If it is war that is sought, and you have millions of Zionist Christians screaming for war (as in this very thread), then no, it isn't counterproductive.

[Conservatizzle]

You think that the majority of Palestinians think like that?

I won't even entertain any more ideas that come from your twisted mind. You make me sick.


How convenient for you.

I guess you won't have to consider the fact that every Palestinian child that attends school is subjected to teachings like this:


What do the Palestinian schools teach? Ninth-graders study from official textbooks that assert, "treachery and disloyalty are character traits of the Jews and therefore one should beware of them." Jews are cast as Satanic, violent and cunning, as "thieving conquerors" who have stolen Arab land and must be fought and defeated.

Jihad and martyrdom are glorified as the means to liberating "Palestine" and children's poems contain calls to war and bloodletting. Fifth graders memorize such lines as, "I shall take my soul in my hand and hurl it into the abyss of death." The same verses are recited by children on official Palestinian television. Sixth-graders read of a young boy growing up with "the love of Jihad flowing through his veins and filling every fiber of his being." "Joy" comes only at "the sight of the enemy lying dead" or "fleeing for their lives."



http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=33&x_article=94

You may not like it, but the fact of the matter is that Palestinian hatred of the Jews superscedes even their love for their children.

[darknessesedge]

The problem in the ME is not religious.

what is it then

[Abe]

You think that the majority of Palestinians think like that?

I won't even entertain any more ideas that come from your twisted mind. You make me sick.The majority may not, but a large enough minority does, and the majority is terrified into sacrificing their kids.

I'm not making this up. I know these people. I love them and I'm wary of them. I used to go weddings, and other celebrations, in Gaza and Rafah. I'd go to visit friends without a celebration.

We'd sit in my house and, over coffee, argue politics. I know them, ad I know what it'll take, but it has to come from them or it won't work.

[Poisonshady313]

If it is war that is sought, and you have millions of Zionist Christians screaming for war (as in this very thread), then no, it isn't counterproductive.

It isn't counter productive to simultaneously demonize Israel by telling lies and demonize themselves in the same manner?


That seems highly unreasonable.

They demonize Israel to get the world to hate and condemn Israel. It's not a stretch suggest that they're also teaching their children to hate and condemn Israel... especially when you hear the hate coming from the mouths of Palestinian children.

[darknessesedge]

Not necessary directed to you Harmonious, but a question to everyone.

There have been many world leaders who have tried to solve the Middle East peace problem.

Countless peace treaties, agreements, concessions.

Would you agree that the only way for peace to every be achieved, is for there to be a decisive victory?

between?

[darknessesedge]

And Palestinians teach their children that Jews are animals. They learn that Jews tried to kill the prophet Muhammad, and the only good Jew is a dead Jew.


Palestinians raise their children to hate and to kill themselves. That's the truth.

hmmm sounds like a pre ww2 society..

[lwdc]

The majority may not, but a large enough minority does, and the majority is terrified into sacrificing their kids.

I'm not making this up. I know these people. I love them and I'm wary of them. I used to go weddings, and other celebrations, in Gaza and Rafah. I'd go to visit friends without a celebration.

We'd sit in my house and, over coffee, argue politics. I know them, ad I know what it'll take, but it has to come from them or it won't work.That doesn't make what he said right, Abe.

[Conservatizzle]

Lekh la-Azazel

Truth hurts, huh?

[Abe]

what is it thenIt's different groups jockying for power. It's men trying to become world leaders. It's incitement of the people. Religion is used as a tool because many of the simple people can be manipulated with religion.

[Conservatizzle]

The majority may not, but a large enough minority does, and the majority is terrified into sacrificing their kids.

I'm not making this up. I know these people. I love them and I'm wary of them. I used to go weddings, and other celebrations, in Gaza and Rafah. I'd go to visit friends without a celebration.

We'd sit in my house and, over coffee, argue politics. I know them, ad I know what it'll take, but it has to come from them or it won't work.


Well, I'll defer to your expertise on this. I would say that with the current "educational" mateiral that these kids are subjected to on a daily basis, if it isn't the majority then it soon will be.

[lwdc]

It isn't counter productive to simultaneously demonize Israel by telling lies and demonize themselves in the same manner?


That seems highly unreasonable.

They demonize Israel to get the world to hate and condemn Israel. It's not a stretch suggest that they're also teaching their children to hate and condemn Israel... especially when you hear the hate coming from the mouths of Palestinian children.Shady, you know as well as I that Medinat Yisrael is not in existential danger from them. Those videos demonize the Palestinians, and you see the effects from posts in this very thread calling for war as if it were a good thing.

[Poisonshady313]

Shady, you know as well as I that Medinat Yisrael is not in existential danger from them. Those videos demonize the Palestinians, and you see the effects from posts in this very thread calling for war as if it were a good thing.

And you figure this is what the Palestinians want? For fundamentalist Christians to go to war with them?

I don't think so.

They're much more interested in the destruction of Israel than they are in doing any serious battle.... which is why they raise martyrs instead of raising a legitimate army, and they let both provoked Israeli responses and false statistics of injured and dead Palestinians incite the world against Israel.

[lwdc]

And you figure this is what the Palestinians want? For fundamentalist Christians to go to war with them?

I don't think so.Agreed: I don't think so either.

It is what the distributors of the videos want.

I've seen those videos on MSNBC, CNN, and other media.

See how many home videos, (no matter how outrageous), you can get to air on any mainstream news outlet and you'll understand.

[nikoloslvy]

^
Rhodes Scholar


^is great victim and expects others to do the same.To walk on eggshels for eternity.

I'm sorry i don't have 3000 words for "i could care less what the death cultist's want".i want a temple for the peace loving people of isreal to spite the barbarians.sue me.feel free to side with whomever you choose.

[lwdc]

^is great victim and expects others to do the same.To walk on eggshels for eternity.

I'm sorry i don't have 3000 words for "i could care less what the death cultist's want".i want a temple for the peace loving people of isreal to spite the barbarians.sue me.feel free to side with whomever you choose.Well said. Well spoken.






:))

[RayMan]

How many Palestinian suicide bombers do you know of were mothers and fathers?

All that I know of were childless, and barely of marriageable age.

What they did was detestable and inexcusable. But Golda Meir's hyperbolic soundbite adds NOTHING to understanding the issue.

So it has basically been CHILDREN who have been the bombers. Seventeen and eighteen year old boys for the most part.


You didn't really think that one through lwdc. Golda wasn't referencing parents being suicide bombers and leaving their children behind. She was talking about children being sacrified.

[RayMan]

I know.

But in Jewish history, it's business as usual. They are the people who hate the Jews this (and last) century...

Hopefully, in a generation or two, it won't move on to someone else, but will end completely.

Amen to that.

[darknessesedge]

It's different groups jockying for power. It's men trying to become world leaders. It's incitement of the people. Religion is used as a tool because many of the simple people can be manipulated with religion.


:rolleyes:

[lwdc]

So it has basically been CHILDREN who have been the bombers. Seventeen and eighteen year old boys for the most part.


You didn't really think that one through lwdc. Golda wasn't referencing parents being suicide bombers and leaving their children behind. She was talking about children being sacrified.See post #141.

[meggers49]

How many Palestinian suicide bombers do you know of were mothers and fathers?

All that I know of were childless, and barely of marriageable age.

What they did was detestable and inexcusable. But Golda Meir's hyperbolic soundbite adds NOTHING to understanding the issue.

the point is, they teach their children to hate and to believe this is the right way to do things. There has been video of mothers interviewed saying that they hope that their kids grow up to be suicide bombers and of kids talking about it like it was their greatest aspiration.

[lwdc]

"Religion is used as a tool because many of the simple people can be manipulated with religion"
:rolleyes:Abe's right.







:think:

[RayMan]

See post #141.

Make me! :cool:

I am a little behind in my reading. We just found out we got identify theft going on for some major bucks. Stinkin' paypal and e-bay.

Been busy with that the last couple of hours.

[lwdc]

the point is, they teach their children to hate and to believe this is the right way to do things. There has been video of mothers interviewed saying that they hope that their kids grow up to be suicide bombers and of kids talking about it like it was their greatest aspiration.There "are videos" of Americans saying the same about their kids, and far worse. So what?

[lwdc]

Make me! :cool:

I am a little behind in my reading. We just found out we got identify theft going on for some major bucks. Stinkin' paypal and e-bay.

Been busy with that the last couple of hours.Ouch. God help you, Rayguy. I pray that truth and justice prevail and that the thieves get their just desserts.

[darknessesedge]

Abe's right.







:think:

in his opinion for maybe some people..

[Poisonshady313]

There "are videos" of Americans saying the same about their kids, and far worse. So what?

I'd like you to provide such a video.

[lwdc]

in his opinion for maybe some people..Yeah, the ones who haven't been "manipulated". :think:

[mimona2010]

should the dome be moved and let Israel build its temple on the spot that God has designated for it?

I don't think it is a question of should they. I believe that it is a fact that they will rebuild the temple on that spot. This, of course, will be in God's timing.

[lwdc]

I'd like you to provide such a video.Shady, do you believe that there are some hate groups in America that are bent on the destruction of Jews?

I believe such groups exist. Do you?

[RayMan]

Ouch. God help you, Rayguy. I pray that truth and justice prevail and that the thieves get their just desserts.

Thanks. We are talking major bucks including hundreds in bank fees. Hopefully it all gets turned around before the weekend.

[Conservatizzle]

There "are videos" of Americans saying the same about their kids, and far worse. So what?


Link? Surely you can provide evidence of this.

[darknessesedge]

Yeah, the ones who haven't been "manipulated". :think:

amazing

[darknessesedge]

I don't think it is a question of should they. I believe that it is a fact that they will rebuild the temple on that spot. This, of course, will be in God's timing.

ok

[Abe]

Well, I'll defer to your expertise on this. I would say that with the current "educational" mateiral that these kids are subjected to on a daily basis, if it isn't the majority then it soon will be.Don't get me wrong. The kids get one helluva dosage of hate at school and on TV.

After that, it depends on the home. I said, "It may not be the majority". It may or may not. Many parents are afraid of the kids because the kids are encouraged to give away anybody who is "disloyal".

The Gaza Strip, in many ways, is pure hell-on-earth. Sometimes, I'm not even sure about the "earth" part.

[lwdc]

Thanks. We are talking major bucks including hundreds in bank fees. Hopefully it all gets turned around before the weekend.Indeed. :pray:

I was the victim of identity theft about fifteen years ago. It was a huge hassle, but thankfully it all worked out in the end. Years later, it's a non-event.

[RayMan]

Indeed. :pray:

I was the victim of identity theft about fifteen years ago. It was a huge hassle, but thankfully it all worked out in the end. Years later, it's a non-event.

The spouse is the Queen of e-bay and paypal. As an I.T. person I know that if you use those services online on a regular basis it is only a matter of time before your accounts get hacked.

[Abe]

"Religion is used as a tool because many of the simple people can be manipulated with religion"
:rolleyes:

What part of that did you not understand?

[RayMan]

What part of that did you not understand?

I find the little yellow circle with the rollie eyes to be confusing.

[lwdc]

amazingdarknessesedge, in an earlier post you said this:
I dont see Israel losing to any of the arab states in a war.

Let me ask you this sir: was this a "yay" or a "nay" to YOUR OWN OP, which is phrased as a yes/no question?

[Abe]

I find the little yellow circle with the rollie eyes to be confusing.Don't try to confuse the issue, SF Boy, that was his, not mine... :evil:

[darknessesedge]

What part of that did you not understand?

oh i understand what you said..
I find it offensive to say the least.

[Poisonshady313]

Shady, do you believe that there are some hate groups in America that are bent on the destruction of Jews?

I believe such groups exist. Do you?

I'm sure they hate the Jews, sure.... but I don't know how many of them teach their kids that the most glorious thing they could do is blow themselves up in an effort to kill Jews.

How about this. I'll post a video, and you find a similar one featuring Americans of the same age.

Here we go...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dPb1bF-s4M

Several children, no more than 12 years old, are being interviewed about martyrdom. One of them makes the statement that ALL young Palestinians want martyrdom.

I'll post the text of last 40 seconds.

"We've got a call, Sabrine from Ramallah."

"It's true that we're sad about youth and children who have died but at the same time we must be happy because the Shahids go to paradise. Ayyat al-Akhras was 17 when she blew herself up. A girl of 17 is very aware."

"Sabrine, are you for or against it?"

"Of course, I support blowing up, it is our right."

"Sabrine; now, is it natural that Ayyat al-Akhras explodes herself?"

"Of course it is natural."

[darknessesedge]

darknessesedge, in an earlier post you said this:


Let me ask you this sir: was this a "yay" or a "nay" to YOUR OWN OP, which is phrased as a yes/no question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by byzantine catholic
The Muslims would kill every single Jew if that happens.

my post
I dont see Israel losing to any of the arab states in a war.

what you are refering to I have no idea

[Voxpopuli]

Link? Surely you can provide evidence of this.

Do you remember Lynx and Lamb Gaede?
Those cute little blonde twin Neo-Nazi singers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Blue_(duo)

[Conservatizzle]

Don't get me wrong. The kids get one helluva dosage of hate at school and on TV.

After that, it depends on the home. I said, "It may not be the majority". It may or may not. Many parents are afraid of the kids because the kids are encouraged to give away anybody who is "disloyal".

The Gaza Strip, in many ways, is pure hell-on-earth. Sometimes, I'm not even sure about the "earth" part.

Dude, when I read what you just wrote about the kids being encouraged to give away their "disloyal" parents, I literally got goosebumps, and not the good kind. That sounds like a horror movie.

Being honest, I only have academic knowledge of the situation over there. I can only imagine how disasterous it must be on everyday folks and their lives.

[Conservatizzle]

Do you remember Lynx and Lamb Gaede?
Those cute little blonde twin Neo-Nazi singers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Blue_(duo)

Yep. Horrific, but not at all what the OP was claiming.

[lwdc]

I'm sure they hate the Jews, sure.... but I don't know how many of them teach their kids that the most glorious thing they could do is blow themselves up in an effort to kill Jews.

How about this. I'll post a video, and you find a similar one featuring Americans of the same age.

Here we go...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dPb1bF-s4M

Several children, no more than 12 years old, are being interviewed about martyrdom. One of them makes the statement that ALL young Palestinians want martyrdom.

I'll post the text of last 40 seconds.

"We've got a call, Sabrine from Ramallah."

"It's true that we're sad about youth and children who have died but at the same time we must be happy because the Shahids go to paradise. Ayyat al-Akhras was 17 when she blew herself up. A girl of 17 is very aware."

"Sabrine, are you for or against it?"

"Of course, I support blowing up, it is our right."

"Sabrine; now, is it natural that Ayyat al-Akhras explodes herself?"

"Of course it is natural."I think such videos exist in the US too. I just don't think that the hateful participants say, "hey, let's put this on youtube!"

Moreover, I don't think that the good folks at youtube would say, "hey, here's a video from California calling for children to kill themselves because of the Jews! Let's publish it!"

Just my opinion.

You're a smart guy, Shady. You have to ask yourself why such videos, allegedly from Palestinians, or anyone, are on youtube at all.

[Voxpopuli]

Yep. Horrific, but not at all what the OP was claiming.

The OP was talking about a rebuilding of the temple.

What I replied to was about the denial that parents were teaching children to hate Jews in the U.S.

[Abe]

oh i understand what you said..
I find it offensive to say the least.I find it offensive too. Let's tell them to stop it.

[lwdc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by byzantine catholic
The Muslims would kill every single Jew if that happens.

my post
I dont see Israel losing to any of the arab states in a war.

what you are refering to I have no ideaYou said that Israel would win the war that would necessarily ensue after the mosque is moved to make way for the temple.

Don't play dumb.

Does this mean "yay" or "nay" in answer to your own OP?

Since you wrote your own OP, you more than anyone else should know the answer.

[darknessesedge]

You said that Israel would win the war that would necessarily ensue after the mosque is moved to make way for the temple.

Don't play dumb.

Does this mean "yay" or "nay" in answer to your own OP?

Since you wrote your own OP, you more than anyone else should know the answer.

no where in the op did I mention war or acts of violence.

[RayMan]

"Religion is used as a tool because many of the simple people can be manipulated with religion"
:rolleyes:


Abe didn't say all religious people are simple or can be manipulated with religion.

He is absolutely right when he says many simple people can be manipulated with religion.

[lwdc]

no where in the op did I mention war or acts of violence.But you mentioned it afterward.

In your own thread.

So my question stands.

[RayMan]

no where in the op did I mention war or acts of violence.

No, but you said this once the question of war as a result of moving the mosque came up.

I dont see Israel losing to any of the arab states in a war.

[darknessesedge]

But you mentioned it afterward.

In your own thread.

So my question stands.

:rolleyes:

[lwdc]

:rolleyes:Is that your answer?

[Abe]

Dude, when I read what you just wrote about the kids being encouraged to give away their "disloyal" parents, I literally got goosebumps, and not the good kind. That sounds like a horror movie.

Being honest, I only have academic knowledge of the situation over there. I can only imagine how disasterous it must be on everyday folks and their lives.

We watch their TV in Israel. We see children just a couple of miles away, say what a glorious thing it is to blow up among us. We see children's programs that tell them how evil we are and that Allah hates us.

My mother sees this and thinks the Nazis are back.

[lwdc]

Am I supposed to be impressed by that?

[darknessesedge]

No, but you said this once the question of war as a result of moving the mosque came up.

no, I was answering a poster about muslims and the jewish people about any battles/war.
had nothing to do with the op.

[lwdc]

I can do that too.

Watch...

[lwdc]

:rolleyes:

[Voxpopuli]

no, I was answering a poster about muslims and the jewish people about any battles/war.
had nothing to do with the op.

Now considering that the majority who originally said no to you original question, based on their belief violence would result. Do you think it should happen even if it results in the death of many?

[lwdc]

no, I was answering a poster about muslims and the jewish people about any battles/war.
had nothing to do with the op.Battles/war having NOTHING to do with moving the Al Aqsa mosque to make way for the Temple?




What are you, on drugs?

[RayMan]

no, I was answering a poster about muslims and the jewish people about any battles/war.
had nothing to do with the op.

Well now, that's pretty much a load of manure. The two are integrally related. If the Jews tried to move the mosque, war would ensue post haste.

[darknessesedge]

Now considering that the majority who originally said no to you original question, based on their belief violence would result. Do you think it should happen even if it results in the death of many?

I dont think violence is the answer to anything..
now will a compromise be reached where peacfully the dome might be moved?
who knows..
the dome is sacred to the muslim people.
the temple is sacred to the jewish people.
can both reside in the same spot???

I dont know..

[Abe]

:rolleyes:WOW!!! I wish I could do that. :confused:

[RayMan]

:rolleyes:


Actually, I think you do it with much more panache.

[darknessesedge]

Well now, that's pretty much a load of manure. The two are integrally related. If the Jews tried to move the mosque, war would ensue post haste.

yes, if the jewish people did move it, I can see war.
but if the dome was moved peacefully...out of a compramise..then??

[Conservatizzle]

The OP was talking about a rebuilding of the temple.

What I replied to was about the denial that parents were teaching children to hate Jews in the U.S.

That was not the denial. Allow me to refresh your memory.


Originally Posted by meggers49 http://forums.hannity.com/firestorm/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?p=61797331#post61797331)
the point is, they teach their children to hate and to believe this is the right way to do things. There has been video of mothers interviewed saying that they hope that their kids grow up to be suicide bombers and of kids talking about it like it was their greatest aspiration.


Originally Posted by lwdc
There "are videos" of Americans saying the same about their kids, and far worse. So what?

Where in your link does it detail how their mother hoped they grew up to be suicide bombers, (or "far worse")?

[lwdc]

Actually, I think you do it with much more panache.WOW!!! I wish I could do that. :confused:Hey, practice makes perfect.

:mrgreen:

[RayMan]

yes, if the jewish people did move it, I can see war.
but if the dome was moved peacefully...out of a compramise..then??

There is not the slightest freaking chance that is going to happen.

[darknessesedge]

There is not the slightest freaking chance that is going to happen.

one never knows.
peace negotiations between the muslim community and the jewish community might bring this about.

[Abe]

Battles/war having NOTHING to do with moving the Al Aqsa mosque to make way for the Temple?




What are you, on drugs?

Naaah, he'll just talk nice to them.

[Jacob_Rising]

I'm sure they hate the Jews, sure.... but I don't know how many of them teach their kids that the most glorious thing they could do is blow themselves up in an effort to kill Jews.

How about this. I'll post a video, and you find a similar one featuring Americans of the same age.

Here we go...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dPb1bF-s4M

Several children, no more than 12 years old, are being interviewed about martyrdom. One of them makes the statement that ALL young Palestinians want martyrdom.

I'll post the text of last 40 seconds.

"We've got a call, Sabrine from Ramallah."

"It's true that we're sad about youth and children who have died but at the same time we must be happy because the Shahids go to paradise. Ayyat al-Akhras was 17 when she blew herself up. A girl of 17 is very aware."

"Sabrine, are you for or against it?"

"Of course, I support blowing up, it is our right."

"Sabrine; now, is it natural that Ayyat al-Akhras explodes herself?"

"Of course it is natural."Before 9-11 happened, the BBC went into all the schools in Palistine doing reports week after week how the children were taught MartyRdom.

Every child committed to it and How in the world would they have a choice?

If only 10 percent of children were effected, then all of them are effected with hate from the beginning.

Every school I saw taught Martyrdom from elementry school.

Those poor children don't even have a chance.

No wonder so many die, They believe in hate so strongly.

[Abe]

yes, if the jewish people did move it, I can see war.
but if the dome was moved peacefully...out of a compramise..then??

There's more chance of the Pope converting to Islam.

[Voxpopuli]

That was not the denial. Allow me to refresh your memory.





Where in your link does it detail how their mother hoped they grew up to be suicide bombers, (or "far worse")?

Right, they only sing praises to Goebbels and the rest of his ilk. Its not like they were taught this from their parents. But you are correct if you are stating these are not Islamic extremists and only white power extremists.

[Jacob_Rising]

There is not the slightest freaking chance that is going to happen.I see it happening.

I think the Muslims will line up in the gentile court and be glad to be there.

I don't know what will happen but I see a whole big majority coming to Jerusalem.

Moab will return and he has an inheritance.

Ishmael has an inheritance.

It's funny How Moab is hidden but his promise is true.

He also has promises.

Isaiah- Israel will be a third in the land with Assyria and Egypt.

Blessed be my people Egypt and blessed is the work of my hand, Assyria.

And blessed is Israel mine inheritance.

[Poisonshady313]

I think such videos exist in the US too. I just don't think that the hateful participants say, "hey, let's put this on youtube!"

Moreover, I don't think that the good folks at youtube would say, "hey, here's a video from California calling for children to kill themselves because of the Jews! Let's publish it!"

Just my opinion.

You're a smart guy, Shady. You have to ask yourself why such videos, allegedly from Palestinians, or anyone, are on youtube at all.

Palestinian Media Watch was established in 1996 to gain an understanding of Palestinian society through the monitoring of the Palestinian Arabic language media and schoolbooks. Palestinian Media Watch analyzes Palestinian Authority culture and society from numerous perspectives, including studies on summer camps, poetry, schoolbooks, religious ideology, crossword puzzles, and more.

Palestinian Media Watch has been playing the critical role of documenting the contradictions between the image the Palestinians present to the world in English and the messages to their own people in Arabic.

(from the Palestinian Media Watch website)

[RayMan]

I see it happening.

I think the Muslims will line up in the gentile court and be glad to be there.

I don't know what will happen but I see a whole big majority coming to Jerusalem.

Moab will return and he has an inheritance.

Ishmael has an inheritance.

It's funny How Moab is hidden but his promise is true.

He also has promises.

Isaiah- Israel will be a third in the land with Assyria and Egypt.

Blessed be my people Egypt and blessed is the work of my hand, Assyria.

And blessed is Israel mine inheritance.


Yo Jacob,
You are talking AFTER the Messiah the Jews are waiting for arrives. Darknessesedge is saying he thinks it could happen now.

[Abe]

one never knows.
peace negotiations between the muslim community and the jewish community might bring this about.You know nothing about Islam. Who would speak for the "Muslim Community"? Who would speak for the "Jewish Community"?

[Voxpopuli]

I dont think violence is the answer to anything..
now will a compromise be reached where peacfully the dome might be moved?
who knows..
the dome is sacred to the muslim people.
the temple is sacred to the jewish people.
can both reside in the same spot???

I dont know..

If someone can get both sides to do it peacefully. There is no reason to object.

If Israel were to do this and war ensues. As an American I would have to say Israel is on their own and should not look to the U.S. for any help whatsoever.

[darknessesedge]

You know nothing about Islam. Who would speak for the "Muslim Community"? Who would speak for the "Jewish Community"?

and you do?

[RayMan]

You know nothing about Islam. Who would speak for the "Muslim Community"? Who would speak for the "Jewish Community"?

Muslim; Ahmadinejad

Jew; Kinky Friedman

They would work it out in no time.

[darknessesedge]

If someone can get both sides to do it peacefully. There is no reason to object.

If Israel were to do this and war ensues. As an American I would have to say Israel is on their own and should not look to the U.S. for any help whatsoever.

so peacefully it could be done..
thats what im thinking.
both sides have got to be tired of fighting..
concesions will have to be made for peace to occur.

[darknessesedge]

Yo Jacob,
You are talking AFTER the Messiah the Jews are waiting for arrives. Darknessesedge is saying he thinks it could happen now.

never underestimate peace.
people in that region are tired of war.

[RayMan]

It is happening now Ray, You just don't see it.

Go to the Mountain and look across to the promised land but know that you cannot cross over.

You will find an alter there and a snake on a Pole.

Christianity stands within the gentile court as we speak.

Jacob,

You know we aren't supposed to tell ethnic jokes in the RF.


Shame on you. :naughty:

[Voxpopuli]

Muslim; Ahmadinejad

Jew; Kinky Friedman

They would work it out in no time.

That would be an interesting meeting. I take it, the Jewish cowboy would have Willie Nelson as his attache?

[RayMan]

never underestimate peace.
people in that region are tired of war.

I would be a happy fellow if you were proved to be right.

[Jacob_Rising]

Jacob,

You know we aren't supposed to tell ethnic jokes in the RF.


Shame on you. :naughty:Ok

[darknessesedge]

I would be a happy fellow if you were proved to be right.

wouldnt we all then.
just imagine..
Israel making concessions on the gaza strip to the muslims.
in return for the right to build its temple.
can the dome be moved?
can the temple be next to the dome?
I do not know.
but peace negotiations..real peace this time could come from it.

[Voxpopuli]

so peacefully it could be done..
thats what im thinking.
both sides have got to be tired of fighting..
concesions will have to be made for peace to occur.

If it can be done peacefully, I will sign the petition. :)

[darknessesedge]

If it can be done peacefully, I will sign the petition. :)

cool..

[Jacob_Rising]

wouldnt we all then.
just imagine..
Israel making concessions on the gaza strip to the muslims.
in return for the right to build its temple.
can the dome be moved?
can the temple be next to the dome?
I do not know.
but peace negotiations..real peace this time could come from it.
Too many Christians have the idea that the Jews have 7 years of Torment coming and the Jews will worship the false Messiah.

But the Muslims have no such preconcieved idea and they are BLOOD BROTHERS!

The Lord will save the tents of Judah first and they will be lions among the multitudes and their brightness will draw a bigger group of Muslims before the Christians.

Just my opinions of course.

[RayMan]

Ok
:mrgreen:

[darknessesedge]

It can happen very easy to Muslims but not with Christians.

Too many Christians have the idea that the Jews have 7 years of Torment coming and the Jews will worship the false Messiah.

But the Muslims have no such preconcieved idea and they are BLOOD BROTHERS!

The Lord will save the tents of Judah first and they will be lions among the multitudes and their brightness will draw a bigger group of Muslims before the Christians.

Just my opinions of course.

I understand..
but my op was not about christians, just the temple and dome.
my feelings are that those people in the me are tired of all the fighting/wars..
so
in order to have real peace...lasting peace..
concessions will have to be made.
the pals want to build in gaza...besides other places.
the Israelites want to build their temple..
the dome sits where or close to where the temple needs to be built..