Obama Does not want to pay retirement for Alaska Soldiers.

[ERJohnson]

These Old Soldiers are no different then the Soldiers of today. Why on earth is the President against Soldiers?

In a strongly worded message to Congress outlining its priorities for a military spending bill, the Obama administration today said it disapproved of including money for pensions for 26 elderly members of the World War II-era Alaska Territorial Guard.


http://www.adn.com/news/military/story/949125.html

[pattyk]

what a jack ass!

all because of Palin.

[E7ALR]

No money for 26 WWII veterans, Really? A bunch of guys probably in their 80's or 90s.

[JerryN]

These Old Soldiers are no different then the Soldiers of today. Why on earth is the President against Soldiers?




http://www.adn.com/news/military/story/949125.html

A. He gave all the money to Murtha so he could have his private airport operate.

B. Throughout our history, the politiicians have always tried to screw the military.
Started way back when Washington was at Valley Forge. If I recall, its one thing he resigned over.
After WW I the veterans actually marched on Washington DC for their pay.

Nothing new here, but seems pointless to screw 26 old vets out of what? miserable pay?
But we have the money for Acorn follies and date nite in NYC - give me a break BO!

[DRS]

Were they state or federal employees?

[Alone In Liberalville]

Were they state or federal employees?

PLEAZZEE!!

It probably cost more money for Obama and congress to agree on that then it would have to pay their pensions for the rest of their lives!

[Canadian Jane]

Were they state or federal employees?



I'm not sure what your point would be.

The FEDERAL government is bailing out CITIES and STATES right now. They're bailing out CAR COMPANIES, they're bailing out BANKS.....


They're hardly staying within the parameters of jurisdiction.


However - for the record, they were a military reserve force component of the US Army - so I think they would qualify under your question.

[JerryN]

PLEAZZEE!!

It probably cost more money for Obama and congress to agree on that then it would have to pay their pensions for the rest of their lives!

Don't let DRS get under your skin - he doesn't even live here.
He's a PITA Canadian who spends all day needling us on this board.

[UK Glenmont]

Were they state or federal employees?

territorial guard sounds federal, since it wasnt a state back then.

[supreme_war_Pig]

what a jack ass!

all because of Palin.

Well...I really doubt that, and as usual, I'll bet there's a bit more to the story than the OP, who just gives us enough to work ya'll into a froth...

BUT....

If this is true, I will agree with the jack ass assessment.

[pattyk]

heaven help all the baby boomers.......

[dashvinny]

obama doesnt seem to care for the elderly.

[LouC]

These Old Soldiers are no different then the Soldiers of today. Why on earth is the President against Soldiers?




http://www.adn.com/news/military/story/949125.html

We discussed this back in January, I was wondering then what the outcome would be, especially with Palin as the Governor?

I am curious now if a precedent has been established with some other state that is now being overturned?

Previous thread: http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=47358981&postcount=1

Anchorage Daily News Article from January: http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/664327.html

KTUU 2 Alaska Article from the January thread: http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=9718734

[PSBandit]

What a disgusting low-life this BHO is.

[ExDem]

I guess that $20M earmark John Kerry had stuck into the Defense bill for a Ted Kennedy Memorial had to be paid somehow. Yeah, take the WWII vets pension and use it to build Teddy boy a memorial. What ********. Let Kerry and the Kennedy's spend their own damn money on a memorial. Sheesh.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/09/25/watchdog_groups_rap_20m_earmark_for_kennedy_instit ute/

[chip]

Were they state or federal employees?

Obviously Federal since Alaska wasnt a state.

[chip]

Wow

An average of $400 a month ea for 25 veterans in their 80's.

[ModerateVoice]

what a jack ass!

all because of Palin.

That is EXACTLY what I thought myself.

[LouC]

What a disgusting low-life this BHO is.

Love the sig pic!

Don't know how long that has been there but I just now really focused on it.

The "Fawning Media" pays obeisance to their leader.

[PSBandit]

Love the sig pic!

Don't know how long that has been there but I just now really focused on it.

The "Fawning Media" pays obeisance to their leader.

Thank you sir.

[pattyk]

formerly not revealed:

I, when I made my sig pic, will leave it as is until every troop is home from the ME.

and they can kiss my ass

[Crossriflesonblue]

The 26 men have enough other military service to reach the 20-year minimum for retirement pay but would lose it if the Territorial Guard service doesn't count.

Sen. Lisa Murkowski, who along with Sen. Mark Begich, D-Alaska, sponsored the fix, called the administration move "deeply disappointing, bordering on insensitive." The legislation honors 26 elderly Native people who are the few remaining survivors of a military unit that served the country with valor, Murkowski said.


Obama doesn't care about Eskimos....


or farmers....

[ModerateVoice]

Obama doesn't care about Eskimos....


or farmers....

...or Patriots. :flag:

[DRS]

I'm not sure what your point would be.

The FEDERAL government is bailing out CITIES and STATES right now. They're bailing out CAR COMPANIES, they're bailing out BANKS.....


They're hardly staying within the parameters of jurisdiction.


However - for the record, they were a military reserve force component of the US Army - so I think they would qualify under your question.

Well according to the article that seems to be what the debate is over

[DRS]

Obviously Federal since Alaska wasnt a state.

Was Alaska a terroritory then?

[chico53]

Let's see. For months, the right has been agog over too much government spending. Now somebody takes a stand on it and they are suddenly all for spending money. You guys need to make up your mind.

[DRS]

We discussed this back in January, I was wondering then what the outcome would be, especially with Palin as the Governor?

I am curious now if a precedent has been established with some other state that is now being overturned?

Previous thread: http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=47358981&postcount=1

Anchorage Daily News Article from January: http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/664327.html

KTUU 2 Alaska Article from the January thread: http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=9718734

So this whole turn of events would have been set in motion before Obama took office?

[ModerateVoice]

Let's see. For months, the right has been agog over too much government spending. Now somebody takes a stand on it and they are suddenly all for spending money. You guys need to make up your mind.

Yeah, we should just **** on our WWII veterans. :rolleyes:

[stodr]

I have to ask has other presidents turned this down or did this just come up?

Originally Posted by chico53
Let's see. For months, the right has been agog over too much government spending. Now somebody takes a stand on it and they are suddenly all for spending money. You guys need to make up your mind.

amazing that you can not see the difference

[RTchoke]

Let's see. For months, the right has been agog over too much government spending. Now somebody takes a stand on it and they are suddenly all for spending money. You guys need to make up your mind.

Spending on Veterans? Not a problem with it at all. Maybe Murtha could give some of his airport money to cover this piddly little amount.

[DRS]

I have to ask has other presidents turned this down or did this just come up?



amazing that you can not see the difference

Exactly when spending is seen as a bad thing against Obama you must complain you must complain about spending.

If not spending is seen as bad for Obama you must must complain about not spending.

[ModerateVoice]

Exactly when spending is seen as a bad thing against Obama you must complain you must complain about spending.

If not spending is seen as bad for Obama you must must complain about not spending.

Why is it sooooo hard for liberals understand the difference between spending intelligently and spending recklessly. I'd really hate to read some of you folks credit reports.

[DRS]

Why is it sooooo hard for liberals understand the difference between spending intelligently and spending recklessly. I'd really hate to read some of you folks credit reports.

So spending to bail out companies and banks is a good thing then in your book?

[stodr]

Exactly when spending is seen as a bad thing against Obama you must complain you must complain about spending.

If not spending is seen as bad for Obama you must must complain about not spending.

Why don't you try and answer the question instead of puking out a reflextive response.

[ModerateVoice]

So spending to bail out companies and banks is a good thing then in your book?

Go find a quote where I said either thing was a good thing..........go on.........I'll wait right here while you are searching in vain for anything close to that assertion.

[DRS]

Go find a quote where I said either thing was a good thing..........go on.........I'll wait right here while you are searching in vain for anything close to that assertion.

You said good things were those not good things or better yet intelligent?

[DRS]

Why don't you try and answer the question instead of puking out a reflextive response.

And what question would that be?

Seeing as this was set in motion before Obama took office.

[LouC]

So this whole turn of events would have been set in motion before Obama took office?

This whole turn of events was set in motion in the early 1940's when the call went out for Alaska Territorial Guard volunteers.

It was not settled - reconciled through all the administrations since then.

I imagine the current status will not be the final reconciliation.

[Mr. Dimples]

I just have one question.

WHERE DO I SEND MY DRILL PAY? I'm e-mailing the paper with questions.

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Let's see. For months, the right has been agog over too much government spending. Now somebody takes a stand on it and they are suddenly all for spending money. You guys need to make up your mind.

Amazing

[Kegler300]

The liberal hate for our military is overwhelming...

[ModerateVoice]

The liberal hate for our military is overwhelming...

Yep, they had the opportunity to prove otherwise in this thread, but only managed to live up to their not so cliched stereotype about spitting on our troops.

[ERJohnson]

Let's see. For months, the right has been agog over too much government spending. Now somebody takes a stand on it and they are suddenly all for spending money. You guys need to make up your mind.

Very poor spin.
It is like comparing the purchase of a pair of new shoes or paying the mortgage... Both are spending, but one provides you a place to live.

[TinCan]

Well, at least Obama agreed to give the Philippine Scouts a lump sum payment this year of $15,000.00 for those with U.S. citizenship and $9,000.00 for non-U.S. citizens.

Here's a link to their org's website in case you want to see what sort of service they performed during WW2
http://www.philippine-scouts.org/index.html

[ERJohnson]

Here is the law from Title 38 Section 3.7:
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2008/julqtr/pdf/38cfr3.7.pdf
§ 3.7 Individuals and groups considered to have performed active military, naval, or air service.

The following individuals and groups are considered to have performed active military, naval, or air service:
.
.
.
(y) Alaska Territorial Guard: Members of the Alaska Territorial Guard during World War II who were honorably discharged from such service as determined by the Secretary of Defense.

[ERJohnson]

Here is the SAP:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/assets/sap_111/saphr3326s_20090925.pdf

Alaska Territorial Guard. The Administration objects to a new General Provision that would count as “active duty” service the time Alaska Territorial Guard members served during World War II. This provision would establish a precedent of treating service performed by a State employee as active duty for purposes of the computation of retired pay.

Uh....Alaska was not a State during WWII, it was a territory. As a matter of fact the Territorial Guard was deactivated before Alaska even was a state.

[WildRose]

Were they state or federal employees?They were federal employees since AK was not a state at that time. If not for these soldiers thousands of US soldiers involved in the Aleutians campaign would have died since they were ill equipped to handle the Aleutian/Alaskan winters.

The territorial guards fed them clothed them, and taught them wilderness survival skills which kept them alive during the campaign.

[ERJohnson]

Wow

An average of $400 a month ea for 25 veterans in their 80's.

400 X 26=10,400
12 X 10,400=124,800

Lets say they all live 20 years:

20 X 124,800=$2,496,000

Senator Chuck Schumer spent over $140,000 on travel for the first half of this fiscal year. It is costing us more for this one Senator to travel than it does to honor the service of these Soldiers.

[spearmaster]

Was Alaska a terroritory then?

Yes, it was a territory during World War II.

[spearmaster]

Let's see. For months, the right has been agog over too much government spending. Now somebody takes a stand on it and they are suddenly all for spending money. You guys need to make up your mind.

I have no problem at all with spending on our vets. They earned their pension and you know better.

[ATLMediaGroup]

Let's see. For months, the right has been agog over too much government spending. Now somebody takes a stand on it and they are suddenly all for spending money. You guys need to make up your mind.

You got to be kidding me!

Please point to a conservative that didn't want to fund veterans that served this great nation.

Lemme help you out here:
Most Americans including many liberals believe that funding for veterans is a good thing.

Conservatives believe that wasting money on failed government programs and wasteful pork barrel spending is bad and unconstitutional.

Obama: Blow money on failed government programs, hurry up and take over 1/6th of the economy in yet another government program that is sure to fail... But wait... DON'T dare fund veterans who served this country!

?????

[nanajan]

They were federal employees since AK was not a state at that time. If not for these soldiers thousands of US soldiers involved in the Aleutians campaign would have died since they were ill equipped to handle the Aleutian/Alaskan winters.

The territorial guards fed them clothed them, and taught them wilderness survival skills which kept them alive during the campaign.


I remember seeing that on the history channel. Our soldiers would not have survived if not for these brave men. I don't care what the circumstances are, our soldiers and fighting men should have every consideration and the respect they deserve. If we can't take care of them we should not be allowed to give one dime to anyone else.
Of course this does not surprise me about BO. He is the scum of the earth.

[nanajan]

400 X 26=10,400

Lets say they all live 20 years:

20 X 10,400=208,000

That is only twice what Senator Chuck Schumer spent on travel...... the first half of this fiscal year.

That is less that what Schumer and his ilk take under the table for favors. This really makes my blood boil!!!

[ERJohnson]

That is less that what Schumer and his ilk take under the table for favors. This really makes my blood boil!!!

I will hang my boots up on 31 October. It frightens me to see this action against Soldiers in their most vulnerable stage of life. It this what is to come?

Hopefully, Congress will reject this administration's request and honor this country's promise to it's veterans.

Maybe the President can come to Alaska and apologize to the surviving ATG members for how this country treated them after the war.

[Rurudyne]

"Give them some aspirin."

[ERJohnson]

Looks like the Senate is in support of these Soldiers.

WASHINGTON -- A military spending bill passed the U.S. Senate Tuesday with a provision intact that would pay the pensions of about two dozen elderly members of the World War II-era Alaska Territorial Guard.

http://www.adn.com/news/military/story/963862.html

[Antrel]

All but a few were part-time volunteers without pay and, to my knowledge, not subject to Army regulations. They reported to the Alaskan governor, so I'm not sure if they'd even be federal employees. Volunteers were under no contractual obligation, plus the ATG was only open for five years, making that a maximum allotted time of service. Now I'm all about volunteer militias, and it's definitely admirable for them to stand up and defend their coast, but for a maximum service period of five years, purely volunteer status for the entirety of their service, a lack of combat operations and (assuming, please correct me if you're aware otherwise) not being subject to the UCMJ, I'm not sure if they should have retirement pay. They have veteran status and the benefits that come with it, and I do think that's a justice, but I'm not sure about giving them more.

[WildRose]

All but a few were part-time volunteers without pay and, to my knowledge, not subject to Army regulations. They reported to the Alaskan governor, so I'm not sure if they'd even be federal employees. Volunteers were under no contractual obligation, plus the ATG was only open for five years, making that a maximum allotted time of service. Now I'm all about volunteer militias, and it's definitely admirable for them to stand up and defend their coast, but for a maximum service period of five years, purely volunteer status for the entirety of their service, a lack of combat operations and (assuming, please correct me if you're aware otherwise) not being subject to the UCMJ, I'm not sure if they should have retirement pay. They have veteran status and the benefits that come with it, and I do think that's a justice, but I'm not sure about giving them more.AK was a federal territory. Therefore all government employees were federal employees and without the AK guardsmen we would have had soldiers by the thousands dying of starvation and exposure during the Aleutians campaign. Most people don't even know that the Japanese actually successfully invaded AK.

[Antrel]

AK was a federal territory. Therefore all government employees were federal employees and without the AK guardsmen we would have had soldiers by the thousands dying of starvation and exposure during the Aleutians campaign. Most people don't even know that the Japanese actually successfully invaded AK.There was an Alaska National Guard then, and its soldiers have been properly accounted for and provided for. We should be careful to make the distinction. While it certainly isn't meant to diminish the signficance of the ATG's service, the area was of little strategic importance. The flight path was useful for delivering supplies to Russia, but the area was too far and too frigid for Japan to feasibly stage and maintain operations to secure the airways. The residents stepped up and volunteered to defend the coast, and they've been recognized for it. VA benefits are one thing, paying for retirement is another.

[HoracioMendez]

Sounds like a good, fiscally conservative stance. Good on him.

[Mr. M]

Sounds like a good, fiscally conservative stance. Good on him.

Sounds more like liberal xenophobia.


But what do you expect from an administration cashiering overtly homosexual Arab interpreters out of the Armed Services?



Broadmindedness?

[HoracioMendez]

Sounds more like liberal xenophobia.


But what do you expect from an administration cashiering overtly homosexual Arab interpreters out of the Armed Services?



Broadmindedness?
Xenophobia is usually directed at a broad group, not a couple dozen Alaskan volunteers.

[Mr. M]

Xenophobia is usually directed at a broad group, not a couple dozen Alaskan volunteers.

That'll be your little secret.

[Physics Hunter]

Sounds more like liberal xenophobia.


But what do you expect from an administration cashiering overtly homosexual Arab interpreters out of the Armed Services?



Broadmindedness?

Welcome to the muck M. Not suprised that the Prez is sending some of it to your locale.

[HoracioMendez]

That'll be your little secret.
Nah, the good people at Websters kinda let the cat out of the bag, publishing the definition of the work xenophobia as they have.

[Mr. M]

Welcome to the muck M. Not suprised that the Prez is sending some of it to your locale.

It's making him very popular with our brand new junior Senator, a Democrat...

[Mr. M]

Nah, the good people at Websters kinda let the cat out of the bag, publishing the definition of the work xenophobia as they have.

One imagines you couldn't distinguish between entomology and etymology.



Hint: an etymologist would know the difference.



The other, for those so inclined, is the study of liberals.

[Physics Hunter]

It's making him very popular with our brand new junior Senator, a Democrat...

Hell is Here.

[Mr. M]

Hell is Here.

And she has a date with Destiny.



I think they ordered pork tartare...

[Ninjacorpse]

And she has a date with Destiny.



I think they ordered pork tartare...

I sent you a message :snooty:

[nunyadb]

One imagines you couldn't distinguish between entomology and etymology.



Hint: an etymologist would know the difference.



The other, for those so inclined, is the study of liberals.

I suspect that you lost him on that one M.

[nunyadb]

And she has a date with Destiny.



I think they ordered pork tartare...

As long as it's liberally seasoned

[Mr. M]

I sent you a message :snooty:

Mea culpa, N...


I set my browser to "no pop-ups" and sometimes miss my messages.








Maybe I need a bar code scanner for my PM's?

[Mr. M]

I suspect that you lost him on that one M.

lol...


No doubt.



Damn shame since I was just lining up my favorite philology jokes...

[Ninjacorpse]

Mea culpa, N...


I set my browser to "no pop-ups" and sometimes miss my messages.








Maybe I need a bar code scanner for my PM's?

Your in on it

[Mr. M]

Your in on it

It's the RFID chip installed in the back of my neck...

[ERJohnson]

All but a few were part-time volunteers without pay and, to my knowledge, not subject to Army regulations.
I volunteered to be in the Army twenty four years ago does that mean I shouldn't get credit for my service?

They reported to the Alaskan governor, so I'm not sure if they'd even be federal employees.
Alaska was not a state then. The governor, Ernest Gruening was appointed by the federal government.

Volunteers were under no contractual obligation, plus the ATG was only open for five years, making that a maximum allotted time of service.
They are not getting twenty years of credit for five years of service. These Soldiers continued to serve in other federal service. The combination of those two types of service, is what gives them the years needed for retirement.


Now I'm all about volunteer militias, and it's definitely admirable for them to stand up and defend their coast, but for a maximum service period of five years, purely volunteer status for the entirety of their service, a lack of combat operations and (assuming, please correct me if you're aware otherwise) not being subject to the UCMJ, I'm not sure if they should have retirement pay.

There is not a single current active Soldier, Airman, Marine, Seaman or Coast Guardsman that has been drafted (except Jeffrey Mellinger, who ironically will return to Alaska upon retirement). It is a 100% volunteer force. Should they not be paid?
I do not have a single day of combat experience. Does this disqualify me from being able to collect a retirement?

You might want to check your time line of events.
ATG 1942-1947
UCMJ enacted 31 May 1951

They have veteran status and the benefits that come with it, and I do think that's a justice, but I'm not sure about giving them more.
No one is trying to give them more than any other service member. This will only give them the same that any other Soldier gets after twenty years.