if/when health care reform passes what are you going to do? [Archive]

chip

September 25th, 2009, 5:16 pm

Like I do now as an insurance agent and a greedy capitalist, pick the low hanging fruit.

Me....Hello, Mr. Smith, can I quote you on some health insurance.

Mr. Smith.....I don't want any.

Me...But you have to, like having to wear the seat belt..it's the laaaaaaw.

Mr. Smith....I have insulin dependent Diabetes and stage 4 lung cancer, I won't qualify.

Me....:hand:please! With guarantee issue, you're already approved:dance:

Mr. Smith, how much?

Me... Your part is $700 but you can get it "subsidized" by Uncle Sammy and it'll only be $125, just sign, here,here,here,here,here,here,here,here,here,here, here annnnnnnnd here.:cool:

I will then get $500 for each one signed (or more) and knowing that it will do zero good, I'll make out like Jesse James:cool::flag::cool:

This.

If this passes Im gonna start part time in the insurance business.

DRS

September 25th, 2009, 5:17 pm

Like I do now as an insurance agent and a greedy capitalist, pick the low hanging fruit.

Me....Hello, Mr. Smith, can I quote you on some health insurance.

Mr. Smith.....I don't want any.

Me...But you have to, like having to wear the seat belt..it's the laaaaaaw.

Mr. Smith....I have insulin dependent Diabetes and stage 4 lung cancer, I won't qualify.

Me....:hand:please! With guarantee issue, you're already approved:dance:

Mr. Smith, how much?

Me... Your part is $700 but you can get it "subsidized" by Uncle Sammy and it'll only be $125, just sign, here,here,here,here,here,here,here,here,here,here, here annnnnnnnd here.:cool:

I will then get $500 for each one signed (or more) and knowing that it will do zero good, I'll make out like Jesse James:cool::flag::cool:

This is thing I do not get about the whining about having to get healthcare and forcing insurance companies to take people, this will be a boon to them as people will have to get insurance, you sign a person who needs and you sign up a few young people who do not and make back your money.

JerryN

September 25th, 2009, 5:19 pm

Today the report is that the democrats have jail time and big fines in the ObamaCare bill if you refuse.

.

And if you can't pay the fine, what they going to do? Send you to jail until you can afford it?
AND, if they cart you off to jail, guess what - FREE MEDICAL CARE!

Something wrong here, doncha think?

Mojotiger

September 25th, 2009, 5:19 pm

This is thing I do not get about the whining about having to get healthcare and forcing insurance companies to take people, this will be a boon to them as people will have to get insurance, you sign a person who needs and you sign up a few young people who do not and make back your money.

Well, the fact that there are against it should tell you that they know they won't make back their money.

johnrocks

September 25th, 2009, 5:20 pm

This is thing I do not get about the whining about having to get healthcare and forcing insurance companies to take people, this will be a boon to them as people will have to get insurance, you sign a person who needs and you sign up a few young people who do not and make back your money.

It'll be a boom to us out in the field and possibly to insurance companies since insurance will be mandated, but I didn't think you guys wanted to line the pockets of the evvvvil corporations?:cool:

Jabbamagnus

September 25th, 2009, 5:24 pm

Drop my insurance and get the freebies!!!!!

Odds are most won't have to drop their insurance, once your company learns they can save a bunch by dropping you.

Like I do now as an insurance agent and a greedy capitalist, pick the low hanging fruit.

Me....Hello, Mr. Smith, can I quote you on some health insurance.

Mr. Smith.....I don't want any.

Me...But you have to, like having to wear the seat belt..it's the laaaaaaw.

Mr. Smith....I have insulin dependent Diabetes and stage 4 lung cancer, I won't qualify.

Me....:hand:please! With guarantee issue, you're already approved:dance:

Mr. Smith, how much?

Me... Your part is $700 but you can get it "subsidized" by Uncle Sammy and it'll only be $125, just sign, here,here,here,here,here,here,here,here,here,here, here annnnnnnnd here.:cool:

I will then get $500 for each one signed (or more) and knowing that it will do zero good, I'll make out like Jesse James:cool::flag::cool:

LOL, I might have to change professions.

johnrocks

September 25th, 2009, 5:27 pm

Odds are most won't have to drop their insurance, once your company learns they can save a bunch by dropping you.

LOL, I might have to change professions.

LOL, Medicare already made it possible for me to sit in my gym shorts half the time posting, hell, I should be the most liberal sonofabitch on here when it comes to UHC.:))

Residential Bob

September 25th, 2009, 5:28 pm

when reform passes (and i think it will) what will you do if you are required to have insurance or pay a penalty? will you pay it or will you refuse out of principal?I never liked my principal. He called me to his office way to often in high school.

Jail would be better.

PredFan

September 25th, 2009, 5:29 pm

I don't know what I'll do. If I get to keep my policy, I will. OTOH, I'll continue to berate, hammer, yell, scream, protest and rail against Obama every chance I get.

cj234

September 25th, 2009, 5:30 pm

And if you can't pay the fine, what they going to do? Send you to jail until you can afford it?
AND, if they cart you off to jail, guess what - FREE MEDICAL CARE!

Something wrong here, doncha think?

They may have to clean out the jails!!

Turn lose all those murders lose, make room!!!!

johnrocks

September 25th, 2009, 5:30 pm

If it passes, anyone that lives in Louisiana, Arkansas or Mississippi....remember me in your....pm's., for those of you that live in Texas, you can pm my future partner Chip.:dance::dance::dance:

chip

September 25th, 2009, 5:31 pm

I never liked my principal. He called me to his office way to often in high school.

:)):))

chip

September 25th, 2009, 5:31 pm

If it passes, anyone that lives in Louisiana, Arkansas or Mississippi....remember me in your....pm's., for those of you that live in Texas, you can pm my future partner Chip.:dance::dance::dance:

Quoted for truth. Ill take Oklahoma too.

avergbear

September 25th, 2009, 5:31 pm

better question. why 4 years? why wait?

Because it has to begin after Obama is re-elected.

They can’t give America time to figure out what a disaster it is before he faces the voters again.

czzzaar

September 25th, 2009, 5:32 pm

If a lot of you guys fight, I'll fight, but if you're just going to roll over and play dead I'll pay unto Caesar. Can't see we I should go to prison, or die, for nothing.

cshoff

September 25th, 2009, 5:32 pm

zantax

September 25th, 2009, 5:33 pm

Already told the wife and kids, if I end up on the government plan I am going to jail because I will be chaining myself to something in protest.

ArmyMAJretired

September 25th, 2009, 5:33 pm

This is thing I do not get about the whining about having to get healthcare and forcing insurance companies to take people, this will be a boon to them as people will have to get insurance, you sign a person who needs and you sign up a few young people who do not and make back your money.

See how well that is working in Mass.

The fines are so low, you pay them till you NEED insurance, then just buy a policy, get treatment and drop it!

RTchoke

September 25th, 2009, 5:36 pm

And if you can't pay the fine, what they going to do? Send you to jail until you can afford it?
AND, if they cart you off to jail, guess what - FREE MEDICAL CARE!

Something wrong here, doncha think?

Hey, 3 hots and a cot and you can get yer teeth fixed for FREE!!! :dance:

Residential Bob

September 25th, 2009, 5:38 pm

Hey, 3 hots and a cot and you can get yer teeth fixed for FREE!!! :dance:My wife should refuse to pay and so end up in jail, then. She's British.

Ninjacorpse

September 25th, 2009, 5:39 pm

I might be interested in a Missouri franchise... ;)

I can get kansas, lets get this going :razz:

Ninjacorpse

September 25th, 2009, 5:39 pm

Hey, 3 hots and a cot and you can get yer teeth fixed for FREE!!! :dance:

And government ran health care, thats a good thing right?

old guy

September 25th, 2009, 5:42 pm

Already told the wife and kids, if I end up on the government plan I am going to jail because I will be chaining myself to something in protest.

i knew you were a hippie at heart

ArmyMAJretired

September 25th, 2009, 5:43 pm

Recommend my company drop insurance coverage

Cost $1,200,000 for premiums for 140 employees and families

versus a 5% penalty on payroll ($5,000,000) or $400,000!

No brainer.

DRS

September 25th, 2009, 5:48 pm

Well, the fact that there are against it should tell you that they know they won't make back their money.

No that tells me they will not make as much money.

DRS

September 25th, 2009, 5:50 pm

It'll be a boom to us out in the field and possibly to insurance companies since insurance will be mandated, but I didn't think you guys wanted to line the pockets of the evvvvil corporations?:cool:

I think a public option would be better for you guys, as far as cheaper, but I think what ever make you guys competitve and cares for the sick and those in need is good.

Jacksmyname

September 25th, 2009, 5:52 pm

DRS

September 25th, 2009, 5:52 pm

See how well that is working in Mass.

The fines are so low, you pay them till you NEED insurance, then just buy a policy, get treatment and drop it!

Did Mass put caps on things?

Seems the costs will go up i fyou do not carry it.

zantax

September 25th, 2009, 5:53 pm

Recommend my company drop insurance coverage

Cost $1,200,000 for premiums for 140 employees and families

versus a 5% penalty on payroll ($5,000,000) or $400,000!

No brainer.

And so will a lot of other companies. Which is why the whole "don't worry, you can keep your current insurance" is a bunch of crap.

ArmyMAJretired

September 25th, 2009, 5:56 pm

Seems the costs will go up i fyou do not carry it.

The cost doesn't go up, but the revenue from "well" people is what suppliments those that are sick.

I think the curent ratio is that 20% of employees account for 80% of claims.

When 80% of people drop coverage till they need it like in MASS, the system bankrupts.

DRS

September 25th, 2009, 5:59 pm

The cost doesn't go up, but the revenue from "well" people is what suppliments those that are sick.

I think the curent ratio is that 20% of employees account for 80% of claims.

When 80% of people drop coverage till they need it like in MASS, the system bankrupts.

Yes but what I was saying is the penalty it seems would be such that it is not worth it, now if the penalty is 5% and the person or employess end up in a public option than that makes sense.

JerryN

September 25th, 2009, 6:09 pm

Hey, 3 hots and a cot and you can get yer teeth fixed for FREE!!! :dance:

Yeah - and Dental is not covered either by Medicare or the ObamaRotCare plans.

pattyk

September 25th, 2009, 6:13 pm

And if you can't pay the fine, what they going to do? Send you to jail until you can afford it?
AND, if they cart you off to jail, guess what - FREE MEDICAL CARE!

Something wrong here, doncha think?

the plan is if you don't sign on and can't afford the fine, your tax returns will be taken until you pay the fines, and sign up.

if the IRS has this power, we are so screwed

RTchoke

September 25th, 2009, 6:16 pm

And government ran health care, thats a good thing right?

Ummmmm.............no.

I was being a smart ass. :cool:

RTchoke

September 25th, 2009, 6:17 pm

Yeah - and Dental is not covered either by Medicare or the ObamaRotCare plans.

Could be, but here you get dental care if you are in jail. :surprised

simssk

September 25th, 2009, 6:17 pm

the plan is if you don't sign on and can't afford the fine, your tax returns will be taken until you pay the fines, and sign up.

if the IRS has this power, we are so screwed

Yes we will be screwed.

And most people won't realize it until the tax man cometh.

Which would start in Jan. 2010 - but they won't get actual coverage for health care until Jan. 2013

Ah.... hope and change......

RTchoke

September 25th, 2009, 6:23 pm

Guvnah

September 25th, 2009, 6:27 pm

If/when Obamacare passes, I will short the stock market. The market will tank in response.

Cutiepie

September 25th, 2009, 6:45 pm

when reform passes (and i think it will) what will you do if you are required to have insurance or pay a penalty? will you pay it or will you refuse out of principal?

I will refuse. I will sit in jail b/c I will NOT take nor do anything that GObama! the idiot says period. It is my body and my choice. It is UnConstitutional to make people have health insurance period. It is NOT a right it is a privilege.

ArmyMAJretired

September 25th, 2009, 7:02 pm

Yes but what I was saying is the penalty it seems would be such that it is not worth it, now if the penalty is 5% and the person or employess end up in a public option than that makes sense.

The bottom line is that Obama has no idea how things will work if this thing passes, just like MASS and TN!!!

JerryN

September 25th, 2009, 7:09 pm

Yes we will be screwed.

And most people won't realize it until the tax man cometh.

Which would start in Jan. 2010 - but they won't get actual coverage for health care until Jan. 2013

Ah.... hope and change......

Well actually it cannot start that soon.

First off, the IRS has no way now of knowing what health care coverage you have.
Your company reports dollars, you report dollars, but no one in government knows to whom or for what.
Well - except for HSAs - which I understand are going away in the new plan.
They have their own form, maybe they can bastardize that (see form 5498-SA).

Sooo in order for this monster fiasco to get started, they need to develop some kind of health plan reporting.
In addition to the dollars, they will need some scheme to designate whether the plan was 'qualified.'
That will require some other method to certify insurance plans based on coverage, exceptions etc.

So even if they wanted to get this up and running right away, there's no way they could do it.
SO I guess another 14,000 people a month will die during next year while they construct the bureaucracy to run this.
And that's just the tax side, what about all the changes required by the health care industry?
Oh yeah, and all those doctors retiring or whatever, how can they replace them?
The scale of this is monumental and we have some political naifs running the show.
Sad!

DRS

September 25th, 2009, 7:11 pm

The bottom line is that Obama has no idea how things will work if this thing passes, just like MASS and TN!!!

Seeing as no bill has been brought forth yet I think no one has any idea yet.

Rurudyne

September 25th, 2009, 7:34 pm

when reform passes (and i think it will) what will you do if you are required to have insurance or pay a penalty? will you pay it or will you refuse out of principal?
Challenge it on fundamental grounds and because they have finally handed me standing on a silver platter....

Erick_KS

September 25th, 2009, 7:40 pm

when reform passes (and i think it will) what will you do if you are required to have insurance or pay a penalty? will you pay it or will you refuse out of principal?

If the so-called "reform" passes that we've been hearing about from the Dems, the first thing I'll be doing is looking over who voted which way.

Marijuana_MyAntiDrug

September 25th, 2009, 7:53 pm

September 25, 2009
Categories: Senate (http://dyn.politico.com/livepulse/index.cfm/category/Senate)
Ensign receives handwritten confirmation

This (http://www.politico.com/static/PPM110_090925_document2.html) doesn't happen often enough.

Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) received a handwritten note Thursday from Joint Committee on Taxation Chief of Staff Tom Barthold confirming the penalty for failing to pay the up to $1,900 fee for not buying health insurance.

Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty, Barthold wrote on JCT letterhead. He signed it "Sincerely, Thomas A. Barthold."

The note was a follow-up to Ensign's questioning (http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0909/Flout_the_mandate_penalty_Face_the_IRS.html?showal l) at the markup.

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0909/Ensign_receives_handwritten_confirmation_.html?sho wall

dad49er

September 25th, 2009, 9:11 pm

when reform passes (and i think it will) what will you do if you are required to have insurance or pay a penalty? will you pay it or will you refuse out of principal?

I will keep the one I have.
When I get to retirement, about ten years, I'll see what is available.

dad49er

September 25th, 2009, 9:15 pm

If the so-called "reform" passes that we've been hearing about from the Dems, the first thing I'll be doing is looking over who voted which way.

I'm sure the "lists" will be readily available.
But in the end we only vote for our own House Representative, and our two US Senators. It's not like we will get a chance to vote against the 55 or so Senators that will vote for it, or the 45 opposed.
55-45 is purely a guess at this point.

Cutiepie

September 25th, 2009, 9:22 pm

Challenge it on fundamental grounds and because they have finally handed me standing on a silver platter....

I am with you. I will take this to the United States Supreme Court and I will fight it just like Roe vs. Wade.

brody

September 25th, 2009, 9:25 pm

At least now we know what those FEMA camps are going to be used for.

The Debater

September 25th, 2009, 9:30 pm

when reform passes (and i think it will) what will you do if you are required to have insurance or pay a penalty? will you pay it or will you refuse out of principal?

That's a no-brainer. I'll refuse to pay and challenge the Constitutionality of that travesty.

dad49er

September 25th, 2009, 9:32 pm

That's a no-brainer. I'll refuse to pay and challenge the Constitutionality of that travesty.

I'd tread carefully.
Sounds a lot like those that have challenged the constitutionality of the federal income tax.
Some of those folks ended up in prison.

Rurudyne

September 25th, 2009, 9:38 pm

Have we no sacred honor to put at risk too?

Cutiepie

September 25th, 2009, 9:42 pm

I'd tread carefully.
Sounds a lot like those that have challenged the constitutionality of the federal income tax.
Some of those folks ended up in prison.

are you kidding me? There is absolutely NOTHING in the Constitution about healthcare. It is NOT a right it's a privilege. Again, it's my body and my choice. It is NOT up to GObama! the idiot or his minions to tell me that I have to have health insurance. This isn't even about people having health insurance. GObama! the idiot doesn't care. This is all about power and being able to tell us what we can drive, eat, etc. If this was truly about healthcare then guess what? GObama! the idiot and the congress critter's would all take the same healthcare that they are trying to ram down our throats.

Thanks I will take my chances and if I end up in jail so be it. I am sick of GObama! the idiot and him trying to ram things down my throat and trying to tell me what I can or can't do.

dad49er

September 26th, 2009, 2:12 am

are you kidding me? There is absolutely NOTHING in the Constitution about healthcare. It is NOT a right it's a privilege. Again, it's my body and my choice. It is NOT up to GObama! the idiot or his minions to tell me that I have to have health insurance. This isn't even about people having health insurance. GObama! the idiot doesn't care. This is all about power and being able to tell us what we can drive, eat, etc. If this was truly about healthcare then guess what? GObama! the idiot and the congress critter's would all take the same healthcare that they are trying to ram down our throats.

Thanks I will take my chances and if I end up in jail so be it. I am sick of GObama! the idiot and him trying to ram things down my throat and trying to tell me what I can or can't do.

Just saying.
I think it is fine to blog, write a letter to the editor, call a talk show,write or call your representative, etc. But to deliberately break the law is different.
Is possibly going to prison worth that?

Charlie A

September 26th, 2009, 2:32 am

Just saying.
I think it is fine to blog, write a letter to the editor, call a talk show,write or call your representative, etc. But to deliberately break the law is different.
Is possibly going to prison worth that?

When our government has gotten away with massive and increasingly obvious violations of the law since the 1930's, why should we expect our citizens to have any respect for the law?

chip

September 26th, 2009, 2:37 am

I will keep the one I have.

Pretty large assumption on your part.

dad49er

September 26th, 2009, 2:41 am

When our government has gotten away with massive and increasingly obvious violations of the law since the 1930's, why should we expect our citizens to have any respect for the law?

Obvious?
Some think it is obvious ancient civilizations had space alien help building pyramids, etc.
I just don't buy it.

agent_86

September 26th, 2009, 2:53 am

if/when health care reform passes what are you going to do?

Get poorer and suffer like everyone else.

ArmyMAJretired

September 26th, 2009, 9:58 am

Seeing as no bill has been brought forth yet I think no one has any idea yet.

So there is no HR 3200?

There is no Senate bill?

Cutiepie

September 26th, 2009, 11:40 am

Just saying.
I think it is fine to blog, write a letter to the editor, call a talk show,write or call your representative, etc. But to deliberately break the law is different.
Is possibly going to prison worth that?

Yes it will be worth it. There is NOT enough prisons in this country to put us all in jail that refuse to take GObama! the idiot care.

dad49er

September 26th, 2009, 12:19 pm

Yes it will be worth it. There is NOT enough prisons in this country to put us all in jail that refuse to take GObama! the idiot care.

I do admire your passion then.
But I would miss our exchanges.

texashusker34

September 26th, 2009, 12:38 pm

Just saying.
I think it is fine to blog, write a letter to the editor, call a talk show,write or call your representative, etc. But to deliberately break the law is different.
Is possibly going to prison worth that?

Deliberately breaking an unconstitutional law is patriotism. When the Declaration of Independence was signed, do you think they gave a rats ass about breaking the law?

I will break their law, be arrested, post bail and proceed to fight this SOB to the Supreme Court. I will question the Constitutionality and will force an Amendment or will get this over turned.

Show me in the Constitution where they have the authority to dictate to me that I HAVE to have health insurance. It isn't there. They are over stepping their bounds and when people just "go along" so they don't get arrested, they legitimize it and encourage the next step towards slavery to the system. I didn't spend 6 years of my life in the Army to stop defending this great nation from tyranny now.

dad49er

September 26th, 2009, 12:40 pm

Deliberately breaking an unconstitutional law is patriotism. When the Declaration of Independence was signed, do you think they gave a rats ass about breaking the law?

I will break their law, be arrested, post bail and proceed to fight this SOB to the Supreme Court. I will question the Constitutionality and will force an Amendment or will get this over turned.

Show me in the Constitution where they have the authority to dictate to me that I HAVE to have health insurance. It isn't there. They are over stepping their bounds and when people just "go along" so they don't get arrested, they legitimize it and encourage the next step towards slavery to the system. I didn't spend 6 years of my life in the Army to stop defending this great nation from tyranny now.

Until a ruling is made that substantiates that, it is opinion.
Thus far we have been waiting 60+ years for such a ruling.

zantax

September 26th, 2009, 12:48 pm

Until a ruling is made that substantiates that, it is opinion.
Thus far we have been waiting 60+ years for such a ruling.

Yes, we absolutely must wait for the court system of a tyrannical and out of control government to give us the right to declare the government is out of control and tyrannical before we act...

AvgGuyIA

September 26th, 2009, 12:51 pm

LOL, Medicare already made it possible for me to sit in my gym shorts half the time posting, hell, I should be the most liberal sonofabitch on here when it comes to UHC.:))Why aren't you? In truth, it would do our family's business income a great service if Obama let's all the illegals stay and gives even better access to cross the border and squat in the United States.

What's wrong with us?

AvgGuyIA

September 26th, 2009, 1:00 pm

That's a no-brainer. I'll refuse to pay and challenge the Constitutionality of that travesty.The ACLJ is planning to fight this in the Supreme Court if it passes.

agent_86

September 26th, 2009, 1:14 pm

The government has banked on the citizenry being afraid to rock the boat. Under normally prosperous conditions, we don't want to interrupt our lives with jail time or protesting. But as the economy continues to nose dive, three squares and dry bed look like a viable alternative to many.

texashusker34

September 26th, 2009, 1:28 pm

Until a ruling is made that substantiates that, it is opinion.
Thus far we have been waiting 60+ years for such a ruling.

You're backwards..

Until the ruling that AUTHORIZES it, the fact is it is NOT Constitutional.

The Constitution tells the Feds what they CAN do. If it's not in the Constitution they're not allowed to do it, as outlined in the 10th Amendment.

dad49er

September 26th, 2009, 1:52 pm

Yes, we absolutely must wait for the court system of a tyrannical and out of control government to give us the right to declare the government is out of control and tyrannical before we act...

Only if you believe.

dad49er

September 26th, 2009, 1:54 pm

You're backwards..

Until the ruling that AUTHORIZES it, the fact is it is NOT Constitutional.

The Constitution tells the Feds what they CAN do. If it's not in the Constitution they're not allowed to do it, as outlined in the 10th Amendment.

Opinion.
Consider that not everything that is constitutional has to be enumerated.
Simply because somethings didn't exist at the time the Constitution was ratified.

meme

September 26th, 2009, 1:57 pm

if/when health care reform passes what are you going to do?

I know I am truly frightened.

I don't have insurance, I don't want insurance.

When I had some illness I went to the hospital, got some tests, got no answers and eventually handled it myself with vitamins and herbs I still had a $2000 hospital bill. I worked out a payment plan and paid off the bill monthly.

We don't make that much money and we live week to week. We do fine in our lives.

But this intrusion into our personal lives by the government is scary. What my husband and I have decided to do with our health and ultimately our death is our business.

I guess if I have to go to jail for what I believe in, I'll do that. But I sure do hope that this horrible bill does not pass.

Or maybe Texas will secede from the Union and I won't have to deal with this.

Cutiepie

September 26th, 2009, 1:58 pm

I do admire your passion then.
But I would miss our exchanges.

Like I said I am not worried one bit. Roe vs Wade went to the Supreme Court for the very same thing and she won. I will do the same thing myself. Plus, there are lot's of Americans that believe something should be done but, they don't believe that government should take over and demand you have health insurance. So, there are NOT enough jails in this country to put everyone in especially when they are letting people go.

dad49er

September 26th, 2009, 2:07 pm

Like I said I am not worried one bit. Roe vs Wade went to the Supreme Court for the very same thing and she won. I will do the same thing myself. Plus, there are lot's of Americans that believe something should be done but, they don't believe that government should take over and demand you have health insurance. So, there are NOT enough jails in this country to put everyone in especially when they are letting people go.

I wish you the best then.
Many may share you're belief, but will they go that extra mile that you are prepared to do?

blackcatrun

September 26th, 2009, 2:17 pm

when reform passes (and i think it will) what will you do if you are required to have insurance or pay a penalty? will you pay it or will you refuse out of principal?

refse both
come take it obama, the hard way.

chip

September 26th, 2009, 2:21 pm

Pretty large assumption on your part.

Yep.

Very large assumption

http://hotair.cachefly.net/images/2009-09/jec-flowchart-big.jpg

Lawson_Raider

September 26th, 2009, 2:26 pm

I will stand up for the Constitution.

What does the Aaron Tippin song say? "Gotta stand up for something or you'll fall for anything?"

Lawson_Raider

September 26th, 2009, 2:27 pm

Like I said I am not worried one bit. Roe vs Wade went to the Supreme Court for the very same thing and she won. I will do the same thing myself. Plus, there are lot's of Americans that believe something should be done but, they don't believe that government should take over and demand you have health insurance. So, there are NOT enough jails in this country to put everyone in especially when they are letting people go.

No there are not enough jails - but who'se to say they would put you in jail - what about camps? You can build tent camps to house alot of folks. They did it to the Japanese Americans in WW2.

Lawson_Raider

September 26th, 2009, 2:29 pm

I would hope Americans would not allow themselves to be taken to jail by this Communist - Americans are more useful standing up in freedom than sitting in oppression in jail. The only ones that should be in jail are the communists doing this crap.

historynut

September 26th, 2009, 2:35 pm

Since I'm on a fixed income and after reading the following @

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0909/Ensign_receives_handwritten_confirmation_.html?sho wall

September 25, 2009
Categories: Senate
Ensign receives handwritten confirmation
This doesn't happen often enough.
Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) received a handwritten note Thursday from Joint
Committee on Taxation Chief of Staff Tom Barthold confirming the penalty for failing
to pay the up to $1,900 fee for not buying health insurance.
Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a
$25,000 penalty, Barthold wrote on JCT letterhead. He signed it "Sincerely, Thomas
A. Barthold."
The note was a follow-up to Ensign's questioning at the markup.

It looks like I'm going to jail. Since I have health problems they're going to have to put me in the medical ward which will cost a lot more then $25,000.

Smart, very smart.

Shawna

September 26th, 2009, 2:44 pm

Only if you believe.

/

agent_86

September 26th, 2009, 3:08 pm

Opinion.
Consider that not everything that is constitutional has to be enumerated.
Simply because somethings didn't exist at the time the Constitution was ratified.

The ONLY way to give the government MORE power is to amend the Constitution.

The constitution limits the power of the federal government.

In the preamble to the Bill of rights it's clear:

"THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution."

and then again:

"Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

dad49er

September 26th, 2009, 4:03 pm

The ONLY way to give the government MORE power is to amend the Constitution.

The constitution limits the power of the federal government.

In the preamble to the Bill of rights it's clear:

"THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution."

and then again:

"Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Opinion.
The SCOTUS has found contrary to your opinion numerous times.

spearmaster

September 26th, 2009, 4:12 pm

This is thing I do not get about the whining about having to get healthcare and forcing insurance companies to take people, this will be a boon to them as people will have to get insurance, you sign a person who needs and you sign up a few young people who do not and make back your money.

Here's another thing you don't seem to get, it's unconstitutional to force someone to purchase something and fine or jail them if they don't. It's extortion plain and simple and it's criminal. That crap might fly in Canada but it's not suppose to be that way here.

zantax

September 26th, 2009, 4:26 pm

Here's another thing you don't seem to get, it's unconstitutional to force someone to purchase something and fine or jail them if they don't. It's extortion plain and simple and it's criminal. That crap might fly in Canada but it's not suppose to be that way here.

But be honest, do you doubt for a second that the SCOTUS will uphold it? I don't.

dad49er

September 26th, 2009, 8:54 pm

But be honest, do you doubt for a second that the SCOTUS will uphold it? I don't.

It would be my guess also.

Penny in WV

September 26th, 2009, 9:18 pm

Opinion.
The SCOTUS has found contrary to your opinion numerous times.

______________________

Judge Napolitano wrote a piece on the subject. It should be quite an interesting debate because you can believe that if this passes, it will be challenged. It truly will be a test of our time.

Last week, I asked South Carolina Congressman James Clyburn, the third-ranking Democrat in the House of Representatives, where in the Constitution it authorizes the federal government to regulate the delivery of health care. He replied: "There's nothing in the Constitution that says that the federal government has anything to do with most of the stuff we do." Then he shot back: "How about [you] show me where in the Constitution it prohibits the federal government from doing this?"

Rep. Clyburn, like many of his colleagues, seems to have conveniently forgotten that the federal government has only specific enumerated powers. He also seems to have overlooked the Ninth and 10th Amendments, which limit Congress's powers only to those granted in the Constitution.

One of those powers—the power "to regulate" interstate commerce—is the favorite hook on which Congress hangs its hat in order to justify the regulation of anything it wants to control.

Unfortunately, a notoriously tendentious New Deal-era Supreme Court decision has given Congress a green light to use the Commerce Clause to regulate noncommercial, and even purely local, private behavior. In Wickard v. Filburn (1942), the Supreme Court held that a farmer who grew wheat just for the consumption of his own family violated federal agricultural guidelines enacted pursuant to the Commerce Clause. Though the wheat did not move across state lines—indeed, it never left his farm—the Court held that if other similarly situated farmers were permitted to do the same it, might have an aggregate effect on interstate commerce.

James Madison, who argued that to regulate meant to keep regular, would have shuddered at such circular reasoning. Madison's understanding was the commonly held one in 1789, since the principle reason for the Constitutional Convention was to establish a central government that would prevent ruinous state-imposed tariffs that favored in-state businesses. It would do so by assuring that commerce between the states was kept "regular."

The Supreme Court finally came to its senses when it invalidated a congressional ban on illegal guns within 1,000 feet of public schools. In United States v. Lopez (1995), the Court ruled that the Commerce Clause may only be used by Congress to regulate human activity that is truly commercial at its core and that has not traditionally been regulated by the states. The movement of illegal guns from one state to another, the Court ruled, was criminal and not commercial at its core, and school safety has historically been a state function.

Applying these principles to President Barack Obama's health-care proposal, it's clear that his plan is unconstitutional at its core. The practice of medicine consists of the delivery of intimate services to the human body. In almost all instances, the delivery of medical services occurs in one place and does not move across interstate lines. One goes to a physician not to engage in commercial activity, as the Framers of the Constitution understood, but to improve one's health. And the practice of medicine, much like public school safety, has been regulated by states for the past century.

The same Congress that wants to tell family farmers what to grow in their backyards has declined "to keep regular" the commercial sale of insurance policies. It has permitted all 50 states to erect the type of barriers that the Commerce Clause was written precisely to tear down. Insurers are barred from selling policies to people in another state.

That's right: Congress refuses to keep commerce regular when the commercial activity is the sale of insurance, but claims it can regulate the removal of a person's appendix because that constitutes interstate commerce.

Read the rest here
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203917304574412793406386548.html

The Debater

September 26th, 2009, 9:23 pm

Opinion.
Consider that not everything that is constitutional has to be enumerated.
Simply because somethings didn't exist at the time the Constitution was ratified.

Except that as I recall, the federal government was denied any powers not specifically granted to it. There is no presumption of Constitutionality, if so there would never need to be any challenges to legislation.

dad49er

September 26th, 2009, 11:02 pm

Except that as I recall, the federal government was denied any powers not specifically granted to it. There is no presumption of Constitutionality, if so there would never need to be any challenges to legislation.

Quite a few things the federal government is involved in are not specifically mentioned in the Constitution. Some have been challenged and they have passed judicial muster.

agent_86

September 27th, 2009, 12:40 am

Opinion.
The SCOTUS has found contrary to your opinion numerous times.

You don't understand what the Constitution is, if you think it's just opinion. :))

SCOTUS is only one branch of the government defined by the constitution. It makes ZERO sense that SCOTUS can have more weight than the document that established it.

:))

Trenches

September 27th, 2009, 12:50 am

when reform passes (and i think it will) what will you do if you are required to have insurance or pay a penalty? will you pay it or will you refuse out of principal?

I'll wonder why conservatives who follow Hannity so closely were not more for electing Politicians to push for a state or states to secede. And promote more State independence from the Federal government.

dad49er

September 27th, 2009, 2:28 am

You don't understand what the Constitution is, if you think it's just opinion. :))

SCOTUS is only one branch of the government defined by the constitution. It makes ZERO sense that SCOTUS can have more weight than the document that established it.

:))

It doesn't, and I haven't said that.
It astounds me the number of people who disagree with a Supreme Court decision just say "well the court is wrong" as if they all know better.
Especially sense in the type of cases we are talking about the court has been very consistent for over sixty years.

dad49er

September 27th, 2009, 2:31 am

I'll wonder why conservatives who follow Hannity so closely were not more for electing Politicians to push for a state or states to secede. And promote more State independence from the Federal government.

Because then what would they do in cases like;
Florida 2000,
Teri Schiavo,
and now Massachutches.
They are all for state rights until a state does something they disagree with.

agent_86

September 27th, 2009, 12:43 pm

It doesn't, and I haven't said that.
It astounds me the number of people who disagree with a Supreme Court decision just say "well the court is wrong" as if they all know better.
Especially sense in the type of cases we are talking about the court has been very consistent for over sixty years.

Actually, I directly quoted our organic law and you told me it was simply opinion.

So don't try to back away now.

KatyG

September 27th, 2009, 1:05 pm

Because it has to begin after Obama is re-elected.

They can’t give America time to figure out what a disaster it is before he faces the voters again.

I don't know what I'll do.
But I do know Nobama have no problem getting re-elected. After Socialist Health Care comes Cap and Tax to destroy the economy then Amnesty, which they'll get in before the 2010 elections, which will ensure a completely unbeatable Democratic voting block that will ensure Democratic rule decades, if not forever.
Add in pathetically weak national defense and we are in BIG trouble.

My only question is, do all politicians believe their children and grandchildren will be able to slide under these laws?
They can't ALL become part of the protected class, can they??
How about the media? Do they really not care about destroying their own grandchildren and great grandchildren's futures? This is simple economics.
I'm amazed at this complete disregard for their own future progeny.

gossamer

September 27th, 2009, 1:36 pm

Go to work in the morning?

PheonixOps

September 27th, 2009, 1:51 pm

Like I do now as an insurance agent and a greedy capitalist, pick the low hanging fruit.

Me....Hello, Mr. Smith, can I quote you on some health insurance.

Mr. Smith.....I don't want any.

Me...But you have to, like having to wear the seat belt..it's the laaaaaaw.

Mr. Smith....I have insulin dependent Diabetes and stage 4 lung cancer, I won't qualify.

Me....:hand:please! With guarantee issue, you're already approved:dance:

Mr. Smith, how much?

Me... Your part is $700 but you can get it "subsidized" by Uncle Sammy and it'll only be $125, just sign, here,here,here,here,here,here,here,here,here,here, here annnnnnnnd here.:cool:

I will then get $500 for each one signed (or more) and knowing that it will do zero good, I'll make out like Jesse James:cool::flag::cool:

LOL, great answer! If it works out like that, I'll change industries and sell health insurance. It can't be any harder than selling life, auto, etc. when I was a young man. :cool:

dad49er

September 27th, 2009, 1:56 pm

Actually, I directly quoted our organic law and you told me it was simply opinion.

So don't try to back away now.

You gave opinion.
Your opinion is that, that 'organic' law supports your position, the court disagreed in it's opinion.
If it were really that simple we wouldn't even need a Supreme Court and they wouldn't decided as they have counter to the way you think they should.

The lack of 9-0 or even 8-1, 7-2 decisions proves it is not as simple as you present it to be.

johnrocks

September 27th, 2009, 2:40 pm

LOL, great answer! If it works out like that, I'll change industries and sell health insurance. It can't be any harder than selling life, auto, etc. when I was a young man. :cool:

It'll be easier, it will be like the "click it or ticket" campaign with seat belts only it'll be "sign or your ass is going to jail":flag:

Sun

September 27th, 2009, 2:46 pm

From my email:

"Call Finance Committee Senators today and urge them to support Sen. Hatch amendments to exclude abortion funding & protect conscience rights for health workers.

Senate Abortion Vote Tuesday--Your Call Can Help
September 25, 2009 | Share with Friends

Members of the U.S. Senate Financial Services Committee will be voting NEXT TUESDAY on amendments to keep abortion coverage out of Sen. Max Baucus's (D-Mont.) health care bill. Sen. Baucus's health care bill explicitly includes abortion and would subsidize health plans that cover all elective abortions. Such subsidies for abortion goes well beyond the status quo of preventing federal funds either from paying for abortion or subsidizing plans that covers abortion as is prevented under current laws governing Medicaid, the Federal Employee Health Benefits Plan, and the State Children's Health Insurance Plan.

Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) has introduced several amendments that would prevent government funding for abortion and would protect current conscience laws for health workers. Please call these key Senators today and urge them to support Sen. Hatch's amendments to keep government funded abortions out of the Baucus bill:

Sen. Jeff Bingaman (D-N.M.): 202-224-5521
Sen. Thomas Carper (D-Del.): 202-224-2441
Sen. Kent Conrad (D-N.D.): 202-224-2043
Sen. Blanche Lincoln (D-Ark.): 202-224-4843
Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.): 202-224-5274
Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine): 202-224-5344
Sincerely,

Tony Perkins
President"

Cutiepie

September 27th, 2009, 4:43 pm

It'll be easier, it will be like the "click it or ticket" campaign with seat belts only it'll be "sign or your ass is going to jail":flag:

yet how many thousands of American's to this day don't use their seat belt and how many have gotten tickets and they still don't use their seat belts? So many don't use it and so many haven't gotten caught. So many have gotten caught and they still don't use their seat belts.

I have gotten a speeding ticket before but, that doesn't stop me from speeding.

abbi

September 27th, 2009, 5:23 pm

To answer the topic question: Move to a different country. Not sure which one, but anywhere but here with HIM AND HIS IDIOTS running health care, it won't be the great United States anymore.. I already can't stand what I see, if this happens, I would like to leave this country until he's out and things get fixed.

Is this a real option? I don't know, but that's the only thing I can think of. Especially since I'm pushing 50 and my husband is 50+, we'd be in front of the death panel if anything went wrong and we both have medical issues, so why would we stay..?

Hmm..

muhadeeb99

September 27th, 2009, 5:39 pm

I will grab some popcorn and watch for the fireworks to begin. It's all up to the 2012 elections to make the difference between success or failure of any reforms to take place.

Lawson_Raider

September 28th, 2009, 10:36 am

But be honest, do you doubt for a second that the SCOTUS will uphold it? I don't.

I wouldn't put too much faith in the SCOTUS doing what is right constitutionally. You have 4 justices who are corrupt who will vote that this is consitutional. You have 4 justices who will vote that this is unconstitutional. That leaves the 1 justice who swings back and forth like a pendulum and you don't know how he will vote.

In last years Heller v DC decision, the SCOTUS defined the 2nd amendment halfway correctly. They did determine the 2nd amendment was an individual right which was correct but they failed to interpret correctly the "shall not be infringed" part of it. Why? It would not be politically correct for them to do so because it would render the thousands of gun control laws unconstitutional.

They were more concerned about the political ramifications of their decision more than the actual correct interpretation. "Shall not be infrigned" is not a hard phrase to decipher.. It means just that - the government has no right to pass any law saying you cannot own and carry a firearm... period. This isn't even a matter of discussing opinions of pro or con - the Constitution in this amendment doesn't leave the matter open for discussion - it is a clear statement prohibiting gun control laws.