Parents charged for kids' graffiti. About TIME!

[gdoane]

http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/2009/09/18/20090918sr-graffiti0923.html

Parents of FH kids arrested in graffiti crimes to be charged as well

by Ofelia Madrid - Sept. 19, 2009 07:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

The parents of two Fountain Hills teenagers arrested for painting hate messages on cars were cited this week for their sons' alleged actions.


Maricopa County Sheriff's Office cited the mothers of two juveniles aged 17 and 15 for a misdemeanor count of defacing public property. It is the same charge the teens face.


The Republic is withholding the names of the parents to protect the identities of the juveniles involved. The newspaper's policy is not to name juveniles accused of crimes unless they are charged as adults or, rarely, in certain other cases involving major crimes.

The Sheriff's Office charged the adults under a Fountain Hills town code that allows parents to be cited if their children are charged with crimes as a juvenile, officials said.



The parents of both children now face fines and penalties ranging from $100 to $1,000 and community service, Sheriff's officials said.



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To recap what these neighborhood terrorists did, they painted swastikas on a Jewish woman's car, they painted KKK on a black woman's car and they spread graffiti throughout the town of Fountain Hills (FH= Fountain Hills in the article, about 30 miles East of Phoenix, AZ.)


I noticed that only mothers were cited, obviously no fathers were in sight so these little bastards (literally) were from an out of control broken home like usual.


I never understood why parents didn't stand to be punished alongside the little monsters they've created. If their dog bites somebody, they'd be cited. Shouldn't parents be held more liable for their kids than they are their dogs?



These are not underprivileged families in the least. Not in Fountain Hills. Houses costing seven and eight figures are normal. It's like the Beverly Hills of Arizona. They have the tallest Fountain in the World (Guinness Book of World Records) just for fun. The whole town looks like a golf resort, heck, half the town IS a golf resort.


The kids are just damned brats. So there's no argument to be had that the poverty drove them to their bad behavior, or that society made them do it. That's a load of hooey. This was ROTTEN PARENTING pure and simple from parents who have demonstrable means that most people would call "filthy rich."


I think the parents should have to stand by their offspring. Be charged with the same crimes the kids committed. They are, after all, the responsible adults.


Sucks if you're a parent and you don't raise your kids right, but heck, whose job is that anyway? Incompetence deserves punishment at some point. Accountability works every time it's tried.


Bad kids come from bad parenting. Bad parenting should be a punishable act.

[Gabby]

A person can be charged for their dog biting someone because they have total control over their dog. A dog owner can lock the dog up in the house, the yard, put a chain on the dog, etc to control where the dog goes. My Newfoundlander has decided that since he can climb the walls around everyone's yards in the neighborhood that it's ok for him to go visit our neighbors. So to prevent this, we no longer allow him out of the house without one of us supervising the big lug.

A parent cannot do this to their teen. A parent cannot even forbid a teen from going out. If a parent tries to block the teen from leaving the house or locks them in... the parent can be prosecuted for false imprisonment. I know this because we've been through it.

So if a parent cannot control what their teen does, how can the parent be held responsible when the teen decides to do something stupid and illegal.

Sometimes, even the kids of good parents do bad things. Teens have little sense and free will.

[gdoane]

A person can be charged for their dog biting someone because they have total control over their dog. A dog owner can lock the dog up in the house, the yard, put a chain on the dog, etc to control where the dog goes. My Newfoundlander has decided that since he can climb the walls around everyone's yards in the neighborhood that it's ok for him to go visit our neighbors. So to prevent this, we no longer allow him out of the house without one of us supervising the big lug.

I don't rightly think that's true because dogs are required to get some rabies shots in case they bite somebody. There's at least some presumption that a dog can get out of control and bite people, if they get rabid. Some breeds of dogs go nuts more than others. I set up radio consoles for Animal Control so I listen to the "dog catcher channel" if you will quite often and the three breeds I hear going off are Chows, Pit Bulls and Rottweilers.

Those dogs are nuts. You can't be a weak owner with some breeds, I'm tellin' you that you'll regret it. You have to be the alpha dog or they'll try for the spot. They're pack animals and if you're too wimpy to assume the role of the leader of the pack, they'll go for it themselves.

A parent cannot do this to their teen. A parent cannot even forbid a teen from going out. If a parent tries to block the teen from leaving the house or locks them in... the parent can be prosecuted for false imprisonment. I know this because we've been through it.

A parent has a DECADE with the kid before they're a teen. It's not like the kid was born yesterday! It's about respect and upbringing. A child who doesn't respect his own Momma ain't gonna have respect for NOBODY.

So if a parent cannot control what their teen does, how can the parent be held responsible when the teen decides to do something stupid and illegal.

Simple. They baked that muffin. The child is the way he is because of the ingredients they added. Like a restaurant getting sued for food poisoning.

The teen didn't become a teen overnight. He was a toddler, and a gradeschooler, and all the while the parents were supposed to be mindful. So when proof comes to light of some dereliction in duty, why shouldn't that come with a penalty, eh?

Sometimes, even the kids of good parents do bad things. Teens have little sense and free will.

Teens are supposed to get sense from PARENTING.

If you wanna own a Pit Bull, that's fine with me but get it registered, get it some vaccines and By God keep it on a leash.

The dog owners who say that "his bark is worse than his bite" freak me out. Holy Crap! Their dog BIT THEM! They KNOW! Their dog has bitten them and barked at them! What the heck is that, like a Coca-Cola Challenge? I don't want that taste test, sorry, PASS!! I don't want the bark or the bite, thanks but no thanks.

If you cannot raise your children, then what in the heck are you doing pretending to be a parent for? The earned income tax break or what?

[DRS]

A person can be charged for their dog biting someone because they have total control over their dog. A dog owner can lock the dog up in the house, the yard, put a chain on the dog, etc to control where the dog goes. My Newfoundlander has decided that since he can climb the walls around everyone's yards in the neighborhood that it's ok for him to go visit our neighbors. So to prevent this, we no longer allow him out of the house without one of us supervising the big lug.

A parent cannot do this to their teen. A parent cannot even forbid a teen from going out. If a parent tries to block the teen from leaving the house or locks them in... the parent can be prosecuted for false imprisonment. I know this because we've been through it.

So if a parent cannot control what their teen does, how can the parent be held responsible when the teen decides to do something stupid and illegal.

Sometimes, even the kids of good parents do bad things. Teens have little sense and free will.

Parents can also threaten to hand the kid over to the state, a guy I worked with grounded his daughter and she told him good luck on that I am going out. He said if you do pack your bags as you can either move in with your friends or a group home, he was willing to pay money for basic monthly support but no more trips with the fam and no help buying her first car. She rethought her position apologized. I tell my dog I am sending him to the pound and he licks my face.

[traditional_woman]

A person can be charged for their dog biting someone because they have total control over their dog. A dog owner can lock the dog up in the house, the yard, put a chain on the dog, etc to control where the dog goes. My Newfoundlander has decided that since he can climb the walls around everyone's yards in the neighborhood that it's ok for him to go visit our neighbors. So to prevent this, we no longer allow him out of the house without one of us supervising the big lug.

A parent cannot do this to their teen. A parent cannot even forbid a teen from going out. If a parent tries to block the teen from leaving the house or locks them in... the parent can be prosecuted for false imprisonment. I know this because we've been through it.

So if a parent cannot control what their teen does, how can the parent be held responsible when the teen decides to do something stupid and illegal.

Sometimes, even the kids of good parents do bad things. Teens have little sense and free will.


Gabby, you see, only people who HAVE kids can understand and agree with your statement. It's easy for someone who doesn't have kids to make things black and white, and make such statements that they can only back up with opinion.

[LouC]

I am all for charging parents along with their kids based on the particulars of the criminal act and the particulars of the parent child relationship.

[traditional_woman]

I am all for charging parents along with their kids based on the particulars of the criminal act and the particulars of the parent child relationship.

BINGO! There are some parents who WON'T discipline their kids. There are parents who will get all bent out of shape if you try and tell them their kids are into things they shouldn't be into. There are parents who put their work first and their kids second and aren't interested in their childrens lives. Those are the parents I wouldn't mind charging. Before anyone says ''well how do we know how to seperate the negligent parents from the caring/concerned parents''. It doesn't take much digging around to see what category said parent falls into.

[jimjames418]

Gabby, you see, only people who HAVE kids can understand and agree with your statement. It's easy for someone who doesn't have kids to make things black and white, and make such statements that they can only back up with opinion.
If you have taught your child to respect people, say "thank you" and "you're welcome" and to share their toys with other kids their age, they will not do what these teenagers did. But this training must start at birth and continue until they leave home, no matter what the age.

[LouC]

...It doesn't take much digging around to see what category said parent falls into.

No it doesn't, usually, often no more than a visit to the home.

[traditional_woman]

If you have taught your child to respect people, say "thank you" and "you're welcome" and to share their toys with other kids their age, they will not do what these teenagers did. But this training must start at birth and continue until they leave home, no matter what the age.

I personally was raised by both parents, parents who taught me right from wrong, parents who laid a strong foundation of morality, and instilled ethics, but yet I still did rebellious things at times. I may not have sprayed graffiti, but I did things that my parents weren't proud of. Others here may not have sprayed graffitti, others may have done worse. Does this mean our parents didn't train us right? Sadly peer pressure will always exist and kids will always experiment and see just how much they can get away with. The smart kids will learn after the first time. The hard headed ones...well they are another story...

[setoguro]

Oh so all those parents whose kids shoot up a school should be charged with murder? How about shoplifting My kids gave it a try once got caught their first try. Should I of been arrested too? What ever those kids did they did and have to pay but the parents too that isn't justice that's crap. Maybe there will come a time when someone in the family commits a crime and the whole family is carted off or put against the wall.

[Gabby]

Parents can also threaten to hand the kid over to the state, a guy I worked with grounded his daughter and she told him good luck on that I am going out. He said if you do pack your bags as you can either move in with your friends or a group home, he was willing to pay money for basic monthly support but no more trips with the fam and no help buying her first car. She rethought her position apologized. I tell my dog I am sending him to the pound and he licks my face.

Your friends daughter caved easily. Did he get as far as to call the police and tell them to take her? Did he go before a judge and tell the judge to take her? The system does not take a teen off the parents hands just because daddy or mommy are trying to scare the teen into behaving. If she had called his bluff, she would have won because he cannot kick her out before 18 and the law will not take her until she commits a crime they feel is bad enough to through her in the d-home.

[Gabby]

Oh so all those parents whose kids shoot up a school should be charged with murder? How about shoplifting My kids gave it a try once got caught their first try. Should I of been arrested too? What ever those kids did they did and have to pay but the parents too that isn't justice that's crap. Maybe there will come a time when someone in the family commits a crime and the whole family is carted off or put against the wall.

Yea they do that in North Korea. Three generations of the familly are convicted of the crime to clean out the 'trash'. I guess that makes sense to some folks.

My step-daughter was caught shop lifting when she was 13. I taked to the store security, told them to take her down town and let her experience the consequences of her crime. They refused and released her to me. Her dad was on a business trip.

Kids, especially teens, have influences from outside the family that are at that age stronger than family. they try stuff a parent would never dream of. And teens today know what the laws are and what their parents can and cannot do to stop them from misbehaving.

I guess according to some you and I should have both been arrested.

[Gabby]

Gabby, you see, only people who HAVE kids can understand and agree with your statement. It's easy for someone who doesn't have kids to make things black and white, and make such statements that they can only back up with opinion.

Yea no kidding. It's amazing how some think that parents have total control over their children. That if you raise them 'right' they are guaranteed to turn into good people.

People who do not have children today also do not realize that by law parents have very little rights I disciplining and controlling their children. And once a child reaches about 13/14 a parent is very limited in their legal right. They are required to house, feed, etc the child. But they cannot stop the child from doing squat.

[gdoane]

Oh so all those parents whose kids shoot up a school should be charged with murder?

When their boy starts wearing black lipstick and eyeliner, YES! The whole reason for the Columbine High School Massacre was because the damned rotten MURDEROUSLY INCOMPETENT parents let their kids out the door dressed like gay vampires and then surprise surprise the kids met with rejection from their peers.

Cripes, you come at me dressed like a cross between Nosferatu and Liberace and you'll meet up with some bit of rejection there too!

My parents KNEW what was in their house. There were no hidden guns or bomb-making devices. Coming home from shopping, they'd ask "what's in the bag?" and "none of your business" was not an answer option.




How about shoplifting My kids gave it a try once got caught their first try. Should I of been arrested too?

Yeah, right. Caught on the first try that you know about.

I'd say you have to stand by your product. If you take tax deductions for raising the kid then you should take the lumps along with the perks. You take good taxpayer money for doing the job of parenting and if you're not parenting then that's an act of taxpayer fraud.

What ever those kids did they did and have to pay but the parents too that isn't justice that's crap. Maybe there will come a time when someone in the family commits a crime and the whole family is carted off or put against the wall.

I don't think it is. I think tax deductions for raising kids are crap and that earned income credits are crap but they do prove that parenting is recognized by the government as a duty and responsibility.

If you're going to take money for the job of parenting, then by God you'd best take RESPONSIBILITY for the job of parenting. That's the way good kids are raised.

[gdoane]

Yea no kidding. It's amazing how some think that parents have total control over their children.

They'd better have total control. That's what they're given the tax breaks for doing. Those tax deductions aren't just gifts of appreciation for your reproductive prowess.

That if you raise them 'right' they are guaranteed to turn into good people.

If you raise them "dysfunctional" they're guaranteed to turn into monsters. If you make a Frankenstein, then torches and pitchforks from the villagers come your way.

People who do not have children today also do not realize that by law parents have very little rights I disciplining and controlling their children.

What's that smell? Smells like a bad excuse. Parents control the money in the household. Which means they control EVERYTHING.

And once a child reaches about 13/14 a parent is very limited in their legal right.

I missed that law. There's a law that says teenagers limit their parents legal rights? It's easier to discipline a teenager than any other age because they want more stuff. A 6-year-old doesn't even know what a cell phone does but a 16-year-old will be on bended knees for one.

They are required to house, feed, etc the child. But they cannot stop the child from doing squat.

The Navy is required to feed sailors too. The bad ones can expect bread and water. Discipline is more than possible. It's EXPECTED.

[Gabby]

They'd better have total control. That's what they're given the tax breaks for doing. Those tax deductions aren't just gifts of appreciation for your reproductive prowess.
No, parents are not given a tax break to control their children. They are given a tax break because of the number of people their income supports. It costs a lot more to support a family of 5 than it does not support one person. The tax laws recognize that.
If you raise them "dysfunctional" they're guaranteed to turn into monsters. If you make a Frankenstein, then torches and pitchforks from the villagers come your way.
Again you do not recognize that some teens act out even if they have good parents.
What's that smell? Smells like a bad excuse. Parents control the money in the household. Which means they control EVERYTHING.
No parents do not control EVERYTHING because they control the money. Some kids do not care about the money and what it can buy.
Here’s a scenario that actually happened… a 16 year old girl wants to go out and party at 11 pm. Her parents tell her no. She goes to the door to go out. Her parents hold the door shut and tell her to go back up to her room. She goes back to her room and calls 911 to tell them that she is imprisoned by her parents. The police and social services show up. After discussing things with the parents and the girl, the parents are told that they cannot do anything to physically stop their teen daughter from leaving the house at any time. The parents will be arrested if they do this. It is legally looked at as false imprisonment.

When a 17 year old decides that she would rather live on the street, the police will not help the parent bring the teen back.
I missed that law. There's a law that says teenagers limit their parents legal rights? It's easier to discipline a teenager than any other age because they want more stuff. A 6-year-old doesn't even know what a cell phone does but a 16-year-old will be on bended knees for one.
IMHO, 16 year olds should not have cell phones. The police and teachers in my kids’ high school even asked up not to get them cell phones were disruptive and being used by some kids to sell drugs and otherwise engage in criminal activities in school.

I did not say that a teenage limits their parent’s legal rights. The law limits the parent’s legal rights. If a teen refuses to follow the direction their parents give to them, the parent has no legal recourse at all to make the teen follow through. Some teens care more about winning the tug of war with their parents than they care about things like cell phones, the latest fashions, etc.
The Navy is required to feed sailors too. The bad ones can expect bread and water. Discipline is more than possible. It's EXPECTED.
You assume that if a parent disciplines a child that the child will always, under every circumstance grow up to be good teen. That’s simply not true. I’ve seen several teens that went the wrong way despite parents who did the right thing.

[gdoane]

No, parents are not given a tax break to control their children. They are given a tax break because of the number of people their income supports. It costs a lot more to support a family of 5 than it does not support one person. The tax laws recognize that.

Funny how the tax laws stop recognizing that when the kids turn 18 and still live at home until they're 30.

Again you do not recognize that some teens act out even if they have good parents.

The teen acting out is 100% the responsibility and problem of the parents and society shouldn't have to put up with it. Parents get too many concessions as it is.

No parents do not control EVERYTHING because they control the money. Some kids do not care about the money and what it can buy.

Again, that's the parents problem. The parents know what the kid cares about and have 100% total control over the kid if they'd just do their JOB.

Here’s a scenario that actually happened… a 16 year old girl wants to go out and party at 11 pm. Her parents tell her no. She goes to the door to go out. Her parents hold the door shut and tell her to go back up to her room. She goes back to her room and calls 911 to tell them that she is imprisoned by her parents. The police and social services show up. After discussing things with the parents and the girl, the parents are told that they cannot do anything to physically stop their teen daughter from leaving the house at any time. The parents will be arrested if they do this. It is legally looked at as false imprisonment.

I'd be telling the police about a party that has underage girls invited to it at midnight and there wouldn't be a phone in little Missy's room anymore. As for the accusations, no jury in the world would convict a parent for grounding a kid. That's ridiculous and the cops were wrong.

When a 17 year old decides that she would rather live on the street, the police will not help the parent bring the teen back.

That's not the job of the police. That's the parent's job which they should not be burdening public resources with.

IMHO, 16 year olds should not have cell phones. The police and teachers in my kids’ high school even asked up not to get them cell phones were disruptive and being used by some kids to sell drugs and otherwise engage in criminal activities in school.

Are these the same schools that insist on getting kids on the internet? If so, they're hypocrites.

I did not say that a teenage limits their parent’s legal rights. The law limits the parent’s legal rights. If a teen refuses to follow the direction their parents give to them, the parent has no legal recourse at all to make the teen follow through. Some teens care more about winning the tug of war with their parents than they care about things like cell phones, the latest fashions, etc.

That's a clear symptom of crummy incompetence in parenting. Kids who see weak leadership will engage in a "tug of war". Kids who have no doubt about who's boss won't even try it.

You assume that if a parent disciplines a child that the child will always, under every circumstance grow up to be good teen. That’s simply not true. I’ve seen several teens that went the wrong way despite parents who did the right thing.

The parent is still responsible anyway. Somebody has to be punished for the kid being raised wrong. They're the winning bid.

[Mobulis]

Funny how the tax laws stop recognizing that when the kids turn 18 and still live at home until they're 30.



The teen acting out is 100% the responsibility and problem of the parents and society shouldn't have to put up with it. Parents get too many concessions as it is.



Again, that's the parents problem. The parents know what the kid cares about and have 100% total control over the kid if they'd just do their JOB.



I'd be telling the police about a party that has underage girls invited to it at midnight and there wouldn't be a phone in little Missy's room anymore. As for the accusations, no jury in the world would convict a parent for grounding a kid. That's ridiculous and the cops were wrong.



That's not the job of the police. That's the parent's job which they should not be burdening public resources with.



Are these the same schools that insist on getting kids on the internet? If so, they're hypocrites.



That's a clear symptom of crummy incompetence in parenting. Kids who see weak leadership will engage in a "tug of war". Kids who have no doubt about who's boss won't even try it.



The parent is still responsible anyway. Somebody has to be punished for the kid being raised wrong. They're the winning bid.

Its real easy for you to talk you don't have any kids.

[gdoane]

Its real easy for you to talk you don't have any kids.

Having kids is a completely voluntary act which I didn't volunteer for. I had better things to do with my life than waste 18 years of it bringing up a kid who wouldn't ever thank me for it anyway.

The people who do volunteer for parenthood need to take it seriously. I shouldn't be bothered with their burdens.

[Gabby]

Funny how the tax laws stop recognizing that when the kids turn 18 and still live at home until they're 30.

A parent can claim a child as a dependent up to the age of 24 if the child is a full time student for at least 5 months of the year.


After the age of 18 (for non student) and the age of 24 (for full time student) a person can claim their child as a dependent. Actually a person can claim relatives who they support. Here's a link that describes the rules.

http://taxes.about.com/od/dependents/a/Dependents_3.htm
http://taxes.about.com/od/dependents/a/Dependents_4.htm

As I said earlier, the tax deduction has to do with the number of people the income supports... not some compensation for a person keeping control of their children.

[Gabby]

Another point. Not all children have been with the current parents since birth.

Some parents adopt older childern, foster children, etc and work very hard to give very troubled children as much as they can.

I have three children.. none of them are my birth children. Two of them have been very troubled due to things that happened to them before they ever came into my life. Kids, teens, due to the immaturity of their brains cannot easily reason through their emotions. They act them out…. Sometimes through horrific behavior. When this is going on, a parent can seek help and keep working on the child. But they cannot control everything the child does.

[gdoane]

A parent can claim a child as a dependent up to the age of 24 if the child is a full time student for at least 5 months of the year.


After the age of 18 (for non student) and the age of 24 (for full time student) a person can claim their child as a dependent. Actually a person can claim relatives who they support. Here's a link that describes the rules.

http://taxes.about.com/od/dependents/a/Dependents_3.htm
http://taxes.about.com/od/dependents/a/Dependents_4.htm

As I said earlier, the tax deduction has to do with the number of people the income supports... not some compensation for a person keeping control of their children.

The $3.500 annual cap is pretty limiting. That's a $70 per week income. 10 hours of work per week at minimum wage would bust that cap. That's practically any part time job.

Of course, if the little darling winds up in jail (as so many unemployed 20-somethings will) the tax deduction is eliminated, just like people who receive Social Security lose it while behind bars too.

It's still considered a child deduction and the tests don't come into play until after 18. Before 18 there aren't all of those limits and hoops to jump through so it's still basically an award, making it different.

Parents also get bonus cash in their "Earned Income Credit" backdoor charity gift every year the kids are under 18, on top of their deduction. Between the $3,000 EIC and the $3,500 Standard deduction, parents are getting paid $500 per month to raise their kids.

Since they're not doing the job, Congress ought to give them the ACORN treatment and cut off the funding completely. There's no need for incentives to breed. The world is overpopulated already and the last thing this world needs is more people in it.

[traditional_woman]

I have a feeling this vent/post isn't about grafiti. It's kinda like a couple arguing over leaving the cap off the toothpaste. He is blowing up over the cap being left off the toothpaste, but he is really mad over her infidelity 6 months ago.

[gdoane]

I have a feeling this vent/post isn't about grafiti. It's kinda like a couple arguing over leaving the cap off the toothpaste. He is blowing up over the cap being left off the toothpaste, but he is really mad over her infidelity 6 months ago.

No, it's about parental responsibility and not watching their kids.

Parents know their kids are doing graffiti. When Junior comes home with splotches of spray paint all over his pants, Mom does the laundry and doesn't say a thing. She knows he wasn't helping the neighborhood beautification project!

When kids come home from parties smelling like booze, parents know that. I can smell a drunk from 20 feet away. Parents don't turn these underage parties, these "raves" in so they're contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

When I see a pre-teen girl wearing a shirt with the Playboy Bunny on it, I honestly have to wonder if the parent is actually stupid enough to WANT a pregnant teenager for a kid that turns into another statistic.

I am SURROUNDED by bad parenting! Not just a LITTLE bit bad either, REALLY bad.

There was a kid in the park on a bicycle wearing a t-shirt that said "Sex, Drugs and Rock-N-Roll!" Kid wasn't even old enough to SHAVE and his parents let him go out dressed like that?

It seems like EVERY DAY I see some incompetent to criminally negligent parenting skills and if it takes holding the parents criminally liable for not raising the kids right then that's the path we need to take.

If our society is going to Hell, with violent crime rates up, over 1% of the population incarcerated, marriages declining and schools becoming war zones then that's all down to crummy parenting and nothing can be fixed until the parenting is addressed.

[notluzn]

Parents shouldn't be held for the crime so make the kids do the time. Kids will do what they want behind your back and if you don't think they will, then you are a blind fool without common sense.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

We were all that age once...long long ago...lol. I know the type of things I would try to get away with...usually got caught and had to pay the piper for the stupid attempt at something I KNEW I wasn't supposed to be doing. It's all part of growing up.

Defacing property...hmmmmm...now that's a big time no no. Cost's money to repair the damage. And who are they going to go after to look for reparations for said damage?Well, the parent(s) of course. What I don't get is this...why have the parent do community service? Why not the teens...or the teens with the parents? The parents are already being punished by said little darlings defacing property by having to pay fines from their pocket book...ok..I can agree with that...but what punishment do the teens get? it wasn't clear from the article if both teens and parents would be punished equally...or just the parents.

I found it interesting that in this very posh neighborhood, these little vandals, lead by an 18 year old, had nothing better to do then to spray paint racial epitaphs on cars. I mean..what in the heck? Seems so random for the area...doesn't it?

~Mysty

[stoked]

This is great news.

[gdoane]

We were all that age once...long long ago...lol. I know the type of things I would try to get away with...usually got caught and had to pay the piper for the stupid attempt at something I KNEW I wasn't supposed to be doing. It's all part of growing up.

Defacing property...hmmmmm...now that's a big time no no. Cost's money to repair the damage. And who are they going to go after to look for reparations for said damage?Well, the parent(s) of course. What I don't get is this...why have the parent do community service? Why not the teens...or the teens with the parents? The parents are already being punished by said little darlings defacing property by having to pay fines from their pocket book...ok..I can agree with that...but what punishment do the teens get? it wasn't clear from the article if both teens and parents would be punished equally...or just the parents.

I found it interesting that in this very posh neighborhood, these little vandals, lead by an 18 year old, had nothing better to do then to spray paint racial epitaphs on cars. I mean..what in the heck? Seems so random for the area...doesn't it?

~Mysty

One thing the article left out was how these little punks were caught.

Because of the area the "hate crimes" occurred in, they were shocking enough to make the lead story in the news. The kids, wanting to cash in on their "famous" crime blabbed about it around school. A student with a better upbringing and morals went and tipped the cops.

Kids aren't very good at hiding their misdeeds. I'm sure that about now the 18-year-old involved is wishing he'd have picked himself some older and wiser compadres for this crime. Kids don't make for the smartest of co-conspirators after all.

If kids can't keep secrets from classmates who hardly know them, then how much less are they able to keep secrets from their parents?

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

One thing the article left out was how these little punks were caught.

Because of the area the "hate crimes" occurred in, they were shocking enough to make the lead story in the news. The kids, wanting to cash in on their "famous" crime blabbed about it around school. A student with a better upbringing and morals went and tipped the cops.

Kids aren't very good at hiding their misdeeds. I'm sure that about now the 18-year-old involved is wishing he'd have picked himself some older and wiser compadres for this crime. Kids don't make for the smartest of co-conspirators after all.

If kids can't keep secrets from classmates who hardly know them, then how much less are they able to keep secrets from their parents?

Kids and secrets....not a likely pair in my experience. Can't help but blab about the stupid things they do to their classmates. Maybe they think it makes them look manly? :rolleyes:

What I don't understand is why would they pick this type of stupidity to get into? I mean there's way more fun stuff to get into then defacing cars with some lame spray paint. In my day..it was getting your hands on some beer and heading up to the lake on a school day....:shifty: Times change I guess....

~Mysty

[AutoRacer55]

Funny how the tax laws stop recognizing that when the kids turn 18 and still live at home until they're 30.



The teen acting out is 100% the responsibility and problem of the parents and society shouldn't have to put up with it. Parents get too many concessions as it is.



Again, that's the parents problem. The parents know what the kid cares about and have 100% total control over the kid if they'd just do their JOB.



I'd be telling the police about a party that has underage girls invited to it at midnight and there wouldn't be a phone in little Missy's room anymore. As for the accusations, no jury in the world would convict a parent for grounding a kid. That's ridiculous and the cops were wrong.



That's not the job of the police. That's the parent's job which they should not be burdening public resources with.



Are these the same schools that insist on getting kids on the internet? If so, they're hypocrites.



That's a clear symptom of crummy incompetence in parenting. Kids who see weak leadership will engage in a "tug of war". Kids who have no doubt about who's boss won't even try it.



The parent is still responsible anyway. Somebody has to be punished for the kid being raised wrong. They're the winning bid.

http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=59741971&postcount=79

First sentence of your reply.

[ressurectedUltraSaiyanUSA]

:clap::clap::clap:

[ConservativeCody]

Children are a reflection of the parent, but people have to realize that teenagers have free will, they will do whatever they please and there is nothing that can stop them. To have the parents accountable for thier teens actions, is not right.

Teens are stupid, plain and simple. Sorry, not all teens. Most teens are stupid and are controlled by thier raging hormones, to say the least. They feel invincible and unstoppable and will do whatever the please

discipline and self control is all that is needed, but those are nothing but a myth in todays morale wasteland.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

Children are a reflection of the parent, but people have to realize that teenagers have free will, they will do whatever they please and there is nothing that can stop them. To have the parents accountable for thier teens actions, is not right.

Teens are stupid, plain and simple. Sorry, not all teens. Most teens are stupid and are controlled by thier raging hormones, to say the least. They feel invincible and unstoppable and will do whatever the please

discipline and self control is all that is needed, but those are nothing but a myth in todays morale wasteland.

Uh...No. Not even close to reality. I can't even say 'most' teens fit this picture..much less being the norm. in today's society. :rolleyes:

How do I know? Well gee, let's see...Been a Mom for over 25 years...dealt with literally hundreds of teens...and ummm..not one fits your description. Sorry to tell ya this man..but you've got one sour outlook on what is and what is not a normal teen. :naughty:

~Mysty

[ConservativeCody]

Uh...No. Not even close to reality. I can't even say 'most' teens fit this picture..much less being the norm. in today's society. :rolleyes:

How do I know? Well gee, let's see...Been a Mom for over 25 years...dealt with literally hundreds of teens...and ummm..not one fits your description. Sorry to tell ya this man..but you've got one sour outlook on what is and what is not a normal teen. :naughty:

~Mysty

I have this outlook becuase of past experiences, i have yet to see a common sense teen. You said you have three girls, and no doubt you raised them right, and they have the common sense to get by in life without doing stupid mistakes, because you raised them right. Not every teenager has had this opportunity.
Most will do anything to become socially acceptable.
This might not be the case when it comes to the teens you know, but with the teens i have been surrounded with, they are nothing but trouble. And if teens are not controlled by thier hormones, what are they controlled by? Thier brains? *scoffs* yeah, a teen that ACTUALLY uses thier head and think logically, spare me the dream and wake up to the nightmare. Teens are nothing but over-angered, raging hormone, pathetic bags of bones that walk/talk/ and do whatever the hell they like... with or without the consent of thier parents/ the morale standards of society ( which is pretty low)

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

I have this outlook becuase of past experiences, i have yet to see a common sense teen. You said you have three girls, and no doubt you raised them right, and they have the common sense to get by in life without doing stupid mistakes, because you raised them right. Not every teenager has had this opportunity.
Most will do anything to become socially acceptable.
This might not be the case when it comes to the teens you know, but with the teens i have been surrounded with, they are nothing but trouble. And if teens are not controlled by thier hormones, what are they controlled by? Thier brains? *scoffs* yeah, a teen that ACTUALLY uses thier head and think logically, spare me the dream and wake up to the nightmare. Teens are nothing but over-angered, raging hormone, pathetic bags of bones that walk/talk/ and do whatever the hell they like... with or without the consent of thier parents/ the morale standards of society ( which is pretty low)

I rest my case....

~Mysty

[ConservativeCody]

I rest my case....

~Mysty

as a teen myself, i have a little insight as to what they are. Im the one thats surrounded by them day after day. kids are different around parents then they are to other people. and i tend to look how they act around people than how they act with thier parents.

but you as a "mom for over 25 years" you must know EXACLTY what your kids do? Right? spare me

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

as a teen myself, i have a little insight as to what they are. Im the one thats surrounded by them day after day. kids are different around parents then they are to other people. and i tend to look how they act around people than how they act with thier parents.

but you as a "mom for over 25 years" you must know EXACLTY what your kids do? Right? spare me

AS a matter of fact..I do. I know the good, the bad and the ugly. But then again, I was an actual parent...not a warden...not a friend..but a real honest to goodness parent. See..I didn't care if my kids liked me...that wasn't my job. I didn't care what was cool or not cool at the time...I didn't' care if my idea's seemed old or antiquated to them...it was my job first and foremost to be a parent..and parent I did. Oh...btw..where did I say my children were perfect? ummmm....hit a nerve did I? And how can you be surrounded by teens everyday? I thought you were five years out of high school? Which is it? 5 years post high school or still in high school? I'm betting the latter. ;)

And I watched all kinds of teens while at the middle school and high school my kids attended. So I'm basing my observations on many hundreds of teens without their parents present...and my observations still stand...as an adult...observing and interacting with all types of teens in a school environment. Nice try though....;)

~Mysty

[ConservativeCody]

AS a matter of fact..I do. I know the good, the bad and the ugly. But then again, I was an actual parent...not a warden...not a friend..but a real honest to goodness parent. See..I didn't care if my kids liked me...that wasn't my job. I didn't care what was cool or not cool at the time...I didn't' care if my idea's seemed old or antiquated to them...it was my job first and foremost to be a parent..and parent I did. Oh...btw..where did I say my children were perfect? ummmm....hit a nerve did I? And how can you be surrounded by teens everyday? I thought you were five years out of high school? Which is it? 5 years post high school or still in high school? I'm betting the latter. ;)

And I watched all kinds of teens while at the middle school and high school my kids attended. So I'm basing my observations on many hundreds of teens without their parents present...and my observations still stand...as an adult...observing and interacting with all types of teens in a school environment. Nice try though....;)

~Mysty
basing things off of what you see is nothing when you hear the venom on thier voice.

[ConservativeCody]

and i never said your kids were perfect, hmmmm.... getting delusions of grandeur?

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

basing things off of what you see is nothing when you hear the venom on thier voice.

I guess you think I was born an adult huh? Hmmm..interesting. Only modern teens deal with what you think is your original experience as a modern day teenager? Hate to tell you this..but everyone goes through it..nothing today is original that a generation before you haven't already done or tried.
.....oh...and um.....Venom in their voices?...gee...sounds daunting. ;)

But I digress...this thread's about three dumb teens who spray painted cars in a high end neighborhood and now their rich mommies and daddies will have to pay for it and scrub the paint all gone next to their delinquent son's....oh...mores the pity...:rolleyes:

~Mysty