Does anyone remember ''Itttt's Pat''!

[traditional_woman]

Not that I'm making fun of him/her, but it was the first thing I thought of. Why did they just now decide to do a gender test, couldn't they see she was different from jump? I do feel sorry for the hermaphadite:(

http://www.sport24.co.za/Content/OtherSport/262/552dc2ba1fae43f194b8bb950b3f6e0b/20-08-2009-11-54/Dad_Casters_my_little_girl

All major newspapers' front pages pictured a triumphant Semenya who powered to a 1:55.45 win - the world's best this year - shortly after the athletics governing body announced that the runner's gender was to be verified.

"She is my little girl. I raised her and I have never doubted her gender. She is a woman and I can repeat that a million times," father Jacob Semenya told the popular tabloid Sowetan which dubbed the champion "Our Golden Girl".

"For the first time South Africans have someone to be proud of and detractors are already shouting wolf. It is unfair. I wish they would leave my daughter alone."

Semenya's 80-year-old grandmother Maphuthi Sekgala told The Times that the first year sports science student had long been teased about her boyish looks and for being the only girl in her local soccer team.

"(The controversy) doesn't bother me that much because I know she's a woman - I raised her myself," she said in her rural village in northern Limpopo province.

"She called me after (the heats) and told me that they think she's a man. What can I do when they call her a man, when she's really not a man? It is God who made her look that way."

Semenya's former high school head told the Afrikaans broadsheet Beeld the top runner had played with boys, enjoyed soccer and wore long trousers to school.

"I first realised that she was a girl in Grade 11," he said, explaining how Semenya had moved to stand with a girls team after he had divided the boys and girls for short running race.

Semenya was a total unknown a few weeks ago - with Beeld describing her birthplace as remote and rural, with the teenager living with her grandmother while at high school and growing up without electricity or running water.

The runner's coach Michael Seme laughed off the allegations, saying the athlete fielded constant questions about whether she was a boy from younger athletes when training.

"Then she has to explain that she can't help the fact that her voice is so gruff and that she really is a girl. The remarkable thing is that Caster remains completely calm and never loses her dignity when she is questioned about her gender," Seme told the newspaper.

Semenya had been "crudely humiliated" a few times and the closest Seme said he had seen her to anger was earlier this year when some people wanted her barred from using the ladies restroom.

"Then Caster said: 'Do you want me to pull down my pants that you can see. Those same people came to her later and said they were extremely sorry

[gdoane]

In a situation like this, there's a choice between choosing one advantaged competitor or hurting the fairness dozens of other athletes. In a choice of hurting one or many, the one loses.

I've always had a very strong sense of fairness. It bothers me when something isn't fair and I agree that this isn't fair, that this woman has the advantage of a man athletically and the classification of a female in competition. Even though it's not her fault, it's still not fair to other competitors.

I have to agree with banning her from competing in female sports. The advantage introduces an unfairness and compromises the competition.

Fairness in sports competition classification is not unheard of. Boxing and wrestling classify contestants by weight, golf and bowling have handicaps, leagues are designated from amateur to professional and this is just an effort of the same basic idea.

Sucks to be the one who's disqualified, but it's even worse for competition if nobody else even has a shot at winning.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

Not that I'm making fun of him/her, but it was the first thing I thought of. Why did they just now decide to do a gender test, couldn't they see she was different from jump? I do feel sorry for the hermaphadite:(

http://www.sport24.co.za/Content/OtherSport/262/552dc2ba1fae43f194b8bb950b3f6e0b/20-08-2009-11-54/Dad_Casters_my_little_girl

Are the test confirmed as yet to determine if Caster is indeed a hermaphrodite? If she is simply a woman of extraordinary talent...what then? If Caster is indeed a XXy or YYx type person...tests can be done to see exactly what 'gender' she is more atuned too...not just physically...but biologically, endocrinology and pathology of her tissues. She may have received physical appearance and adaptation based on a male gender..but be fully female in every other way.

If her testosterone/progesterone levels are at the same or lower then most woman...would they let her compete? Would they allow her to choose a sex and take hormones to in affect bring out that specific gender traits about with steroidal therapy....but aren't steroidal therapies banned?

Advantage...Gene's post made me think about that. They (doctors/scientists) can measure exactly what body frame Caster has and what's it's biologically supported by...down to the last enzymes her body produces. Usually, there is a standard trait among people like Caster...a small nudge in one direction or the other to level them out to appear and function as one or the other sex. If that happened Gene...and she was one or the other sex on paper...would you then feel the same way?

Hermaphrodites are unusual cases...and not necessarily what the general population thinks them as. It's not a human being with two sets of sexual organs...it's not a complete boy and complete girl mix per-say. We all have the same organs that simply developed differently in vitro and then in later adolescent development. Ovaries and testies are the same base material...just developed over time and placement based on hormones inducement into a developing body. This goes for almost every organ in our bodies...male and female are the same material...just developed and exposed to different hormones.

So Caster's Grandmother sites her as a girl. So, I'm guessing in a physical sense that Caster has the appearance and apparatuses of a physical body that is 'girl'. Do we trust our eyes? Or do we trust our vials and tubes and tests?

Either way..I feel for Caster. young person who has worked so hard to get to where they are now...has been through the hardest of the hard to get to where life can be opened like a ripe melon and benefit not only her... but her family and country...and it all hangs by a thread due to what gender hormones she may have more of in her body? That's gotta be like getting a good sock in the bread basket for Caster....how sad...that's gotta be really hard to deal with and really hurt her emotionally right now.

~Mysty

[Mimiheart]

Are the test confirmed as yet to determine if Caster is indeed a hermaphrodite? If she is simply a woman of extraordinary talent...what then? If Caster is indeed a XXy or YYx type person...tests can be done to see exactly what 'gender' she is more atuned too...not just physically...but biologically, endocrinology and pathology of her tissues. She may have received physical appearance and adaptation based on a male gender..but be fully female in every other way.

If her testosterone/progesterone levels are at the same or lower then most woman...would they let her compete? Would they allow her to choose a sex and take hormones to in affect bring out that specific gender traits about with steroidal therapy....but aren't steroidal therapies banned?

Advantage...Gene's post made me think about that. They (doctors/scientists) can measure exactly what body frame Caster has and what's it's biologically supported by...down to the last enzymes her body produces. Usually, there is a standard trait among people like Caster...a small nudge in one direction or the other to level them out to appear and function as one or the other sex. If that happened Gene...and she was one or the other sex on paper...would you then feel the same way?

Hermaphrodites are unusual cases...and not necessarily what the general population thinks them as. It's not a human being with two sets of sexual organs...it's not a complete boy and complete girl mix per-say. We all have the same organs that simply developed differently in vitro and then in later adolescent development. Ovaries and testies are the same base material...just developed over time and placement based on hormones inducement into a developing body. This goes for almost every organ in our bodies...male and female are the same material...just developed and exposed to different hormones.

So Caster's Grandmother sites her as a girl. So, I'm guessing in a physical sense that Caster has the appearance and apparatuses of a physical body that is 'girl'. Do we trust our eyes? Or do we trust our vials and tubes and tests?

Either way..I feel for Caster. young person who has worked so hard to get to where they are now...has been through the hardest of the hard to get to where life can be opened like a ripe melon and benefit not only her... but her family and country...and it all hangs by a thread due to what gender hormones she may have more of in her body? That's gotta be like getting a good sock in the bread basket for Caster....how sad...that's gotta be really hard to deal with and really hurt her emotionally right now.

~MystyFrom what I was able to find, she has internal testes. XY genes, but the external appearance of a female.

[captusa]

In a situation like this, there's a choice between choosing one advantaged competitor or hurting the fairness dozens of other athletes. In a choice of hurting one or many, the one loses.

I've always had a very strong sense of fairness. It bothers me when something isn't fair and I agree that this isn't fair, that this woman has the advantage of a man athletically and the classification of a female in competition. Even though it's not her fault, it's still not fair to other competitors.

I have to agree with banning her from competing in female sports. The advantage introduces an unfairness and compromises the competition.

Fairness in sports competition classification is not unheard of. Boxing and wrestling classify contestants by weight, golf and bowling have handicaps, leagues are designated from amateur to professional and this is just an effort of the same basic idea.

Sucks to be the one who's disqualified, but it's even worse for competition if nobody else even has a shot at winning.

If she is a female she should be allowed to compete.
There was a gender test in the Olympics (chomosome test).
The English royal family was exempt but they only competed in equestrian events where men did compete against women.

I did think it was unfair that trans-sexual, Dr. Rene Richards was allowed to compete in the women's pro tennis events.

[captusa]

From what I was able to find, she has internal testes. XY genes, but the external appearance of a female.

Under the olympic standard that was in effect at one time he is a male.
If he has the differences in shoulder and hip structures that a female has the differing from a male the issue gets more complicated.
Again I repeated someone elses points before reading them.
mysticbeauty_nbeast stated my points far more thoroughly.