Why we need a public option (true story)

[80's Arcade classics]

I'm in the military and a young man who was temporarily in my unit, married with 3 kids one of his children, his baby son, his only son was born with a bad heart. He isn't even a year old yet and has required numerous surgeries, a bill totaling half a million dollars. The only reason he was able to get the care he needs (at one of the best heart surgery hospitals mind you) is because hes covered by Tricare through the millitary. Lets say you dont have a job that can cover you and your family with this level of health care. with no public option what options would someone in this position have?

[Ballygrl]

If the child has a disability then they would not only qualify for disability payments but they would also qualify for either Medicare/Medicaid or a program like KidCare which is what we have in NJ.

No child or person is denied care in the US.

[80's Arcade classics]

I'm familiar with medicare but would it cover up to half a million dollars worth?

[lkz]

If we are doing antidote, a boy I know was feeling very sick. His single mother took him to the hospital. They evaluated him and provided medication. They told her to call if he was not better. The hospital call repeatively trying to find out his condition.
He continued to get worse and worse, while she told people he could not get help because of insurance. Concerned, I intervened. I found out about the calls from the world renowned children's hospital when I asked for a copy of his medical records so I could get him help.
He spent a week in the hospital until they diagnosed juvenile arthritis and chrones disease. He has had surgery twice now--both taking over 10 hours and requiring week long stays and significant rehab.

He should have had SCHIP, but she had not filled out the forms correctly.
But this child had the best care available in the world--by hospitals that cared about him and not about his having insurance.

[smyrna]

I'm in the military and a young man who was temporarily in my unit, married with 3 kids one of his children, his baby son, his only son was born with a bad heart. He isn't even a year old yet and has required numerous surgeries, a bill totaling half a million dollars. The only reason he was able to get the care he needs (at one of the best heart surgery hospitals mind you) is because hes covered by Tricare through the millitary. Lets say you dont have a job that can cover you and your family with this level of health care. with no public option what options would someone in this position have?

Something must be done but putting it in the hands of the government isn't the answer. The government needs to fleece themselves. Who is in charge of our borders? Who bought those thousands of trailers that can't be used for Katrina? Where did the pallets of money go during the beginning of the Iraq war? The Federal Government is incompetantly inefficient and can not handle this. They have fumbled the "Cash for Clunkers" program.

[Ballygrl]

I'm familiar with medicare but would it cover up to half a million dollars worth?

If they had Medicare/Medicaid they would be totally covered. If Medicare paid say 80% the family would be responsible for the 20%, if they didn't have the money that's when the Church and community comes to the rescue by doing fundraisers, also the balance due could either be written off by the Hospital or they would just be responsible for part of the bill and make payments. The medical field would never let someone go without treatment because they couldn't pay.

[notluzn]

Really what branch? How long? Whats your career field number.I'm in the military and a young man who was temporarily in my unit, married with 3 kids one of his children, his baby son, his only son was born with a bad heart. He isn't even a year old yet and has required numerous surgeries, a bill totaling half a million dollars. The only reason he was able to get the care he needs (at one of the best heart surgery hospitals mind you) is because hes covered by Tricare through the millitary. Lets say you dont have a job that can cover you and your family with this level of health care. with no public option what options would someone in this position have?

[80's Arcade classics]

USMC, since 02, 3521

[80's Arcade classics]

If they had Medicare/Medicaid they would be totally covered. If Medicare paid say 80% the family would be responsible for the 20%, if they didn't have the money that's when the Church and community comes to the rescue by doing fundraisers, also the balance due could either be written off by the Hospital or they would just be responsible for part of the bill and make payments. The medical field would never let someone go without treatment because they couldn't pay.

Well the 80% coverage is decent amount but relying on church and community to pick up the rest of the tab, which unless my math is off is like 100,000 left over, dose not sound like a strong safety net, and the hospital may or may not write it off.

[notluzn]

USMC, since 02, 3521So you're a Mechanic and a Marine who likes Obama. Fishy

[AeroEngineer]

So you're a Mechanic and a Marine who likes Obama. Fishy

Why?

I was at Pax River a few weeks ago, and a saw a considerable amount of Obama/Marine Corps bumper stickers on the vehicles in the base.

[MrShotShot]

I'm familiar with medicare but would it cover up to half a million dollars worth?

Are you implying that the Government would enforce limits on its healthcare plan?

Surely not.

[Mimiheart]

The actual coverage varies state-by-state, but there is a federal program that covers all chronic illnesses in children. My son, too, has a severe heart condition. When we were in California, all of his medical coverage from the time he was first admitted (at three days old) was covered under their medicaid program. When we moved to Arizona, because we can't get him on any health insurance, all of his heart procedures are covered under the federal program. We just have to take him to a specific hospital/clinic.

Now, I can't get him on any sort of insurance to cover the rest of his medical stuff, but anything related to heart problems is covered. (And his last hospital stay was $10k a day while he was in ICU.) If we move back to California, he qualifies for medicaid again.

[Ballygrl]

Well the 80% coverage is decent amount but relying on church and community to pick up the rest of the tab, which unless my math is off is like 100,000 left over, dose not sound like a strong safety net, and the hospital may or may not write it off.

I prefer Americans helping themselves if they can and not rely on the Government, we're a very generous people, we turn out and help when we're needed. BTW, do you really think if the Government takes over health care that it won't be rationed? it has to be, the Government will make choices as to who does or doesn't get treatment, they can't afford to treat everyone.

[gdoane]

Well the 80% coverage is decent amount but relying on church and community to pick up the rest of the tab, which unless my math is off is like 100,000 left over, dose not sound like a strong safety net, and the hospital may or may not write it off.

Your math is WAY the heck off, 80% of a Million is $800,000 and $200,000 is a lot more money than $100,000.

I'm not a strong believer in safety nets. Here's the reason why.

I am an electronics technician. I work on energized circuits. If I make a mistake, my ass is going to be fried. I don't get a second chance. What I get is electrocuted if I screw up. So I'm really, really careful.

Like the tailor who measures twice and cuts once.

Safety nets encourage reckless behavior. I play video games. I've had fun driving 250 MPH through the streets of San Francisco in a video game by Midway called "San Francisco RUSH.

If you did that in real life, driving 250 MPH through my neighborhood?

Yeah, that's criminal. It's fun to think about and simulate but criminal to do in real life.

There shouldn't be any "safety nets". They encourage risky, dangerous behavior and people would stay off the tightrope if they see certain death below.

Freedom means paying for your own mistakes. If you smoke and your lungs are bad, that's your mistake. If you're a drunk and your liver is shot to hell, that's your mistake. If you're a skydiver and your parachute didn't open, that sucks. But it's your problem, not mine so pay for your own mistakes.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

I've been on both side of the 'bed' on this issue, with a unique understanding on both sides of health care. I listened to President Obama's speech on health care..and was shocked as I agreed with about 90% of his base outlook on health care as it should be for our nation. No one who is a citizen should get better or less coverage and care dependent only on how many zeros' they have in the checkbook/savings accounts. It's wrong, it's dehumanizing and it's been left way to long by both sides of the aisle so large Insurance could reap the benefits of a fatted calf mentality.

10% of that speech had me up off the couch in absolute rage however...the fine points of how to pay for it...who to tax...and mandating health insurance like auto insurance upon everyone in the nation. That ten percent of the speech is now 100% percent of the issue in my opposing his/congresses plan.

Although it's true, no one goes without care in the United States...money not supposed to be an issue...it does however, taint the type of care one receives. The bare minimum is given to those who have no insurance to med-i-cal type insurance. Dogs and cats at the vet are treated better for crying out loud! It's wholly wrong imo, how these people/children are treated..and all due to how much money they have. Sickening!

It's not the responsibility for the average American worker to pay even more to a sub standard system of care. Tort reform and regulation of the Medical Insurance system would clean up about 75% of the issue. Allowing a person to buy into a State system would clean up another 10% or so..leaving a very small percentage who would claim Federal or Sate medical/medicare type benefits due to illness or age. Now that's seems more a true fix then anything Mr. Obama has yet proposed.

Everyone...every last one of us should expect and receive the same care...high quality care when we become ill. Rationing out base care to those who are less fortunate and doling out HMO care to those who think it will garner them better care has got to stop. High quality, fully competitive, fully educated choices need to be implemented asap. We should all be treated as though a legislature or President. We should all be treated and cared for when an illness strikes as equals. It is the only humane and decent thing to do. We are wealthy enough as a Nation..and have an enviable health care system the world over....your gonna tell me we can't extend that to everyone? Bull pucky!

How to pay for it...ahhhh....how to reign in an out of control monopoly of health insurance companies....how to ensure good care to our citizens by fully educating the health care field staff by extending schooling and education of new doctors/nurses/support staff...now that...that's the real work here folks.

~Mysty

[Greyclouds]

Why?

I was at Pax River a few weeks ago, and a saw a considerable amount of Obama/Marine Corps bumper stickers on the vehicles in the base.

D... D... *bzzt*... d-does not compute... *bzzt*

:lol:

[Quinn]

Well the 80% coverage is decent amount but relying on church and community to pick up the rest of the tab, which unless my math is off is like 100,000 left over, dose not sound like a strong safety net, and the hospital may or may not write it off.

This is exactly why most people who are on Medicare purchase supplimental insurance.

In Arizona, we have several public options already. Senior citizens are entitled to Medicare. For the poor and/or disabled there are Medicaid, APIPA (AZ State) and Pima Health (County). For retired military, there is Tricare (AKA Try to get care) which very few pratices accept. Then there is the VA for disabled vets and the Indian Health Service for the Native American population.

That makes 7 publically supported programs. Very few are satisfied with them.

Those who work in those systems are incredibly dedicated. Working in a VA hospital or on a reservation takes huge amounts of compassion. But, I will believe in the "Public Option" when I hear people wishing for the same care the Reservations or VA provide.

[Mimiheart]

This is exactly why most people who are on Medicare purchase supplimental insurance.

In Arizona, we have several public options already. Senior citizens are entitled to Medicare. For the poor and/or disabled there are Medicaid, APIPA (AZ State) and Pima Health (County). For retired military, there is Tricare (AKA Try to get care) which very few pratices accept. Then there is the VA for disabled vets and the Indian Health Service for the Native American population.

That makes 7 publically supported programs. Very few are satisfied with them.

Those who work in those systems are incredibly dedicated. Working in a VA hospital or on a reservation takes huge amounts of compassion. But, I will believe in the "Public Option" when I hear people wishing for the same care the Reservations or VA provide.Arizona doesn't have Medicaid -- we have AHCCCS (Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System). AP-IPA is one of the AHCCCS options.

[AeroEngineer]

D... D... *bzzt*... d-does not compute... *bzzt*

:lol:


In fairness, they could have been liberal plants disguised as marines. :-P

[gdoane]

The problem with the public option as I see it is that it can't be sustained as an option.

Nobody in their right mind would opt in unless they're already sick and need care. This would make nearly everyone in the plan a taker and there would be no givers... unless healthy people were FORCED into this horrifyingly bad plan to be the cash cows.

The Democrats know this all too well. That's why they freaked out when W. Bush suggested that younger people should be able to opt out of Social Security. Anybody with a lick of sense, given the "option" to get away from Social Security and stop being a cash cow is gonna go for it. That's why there's no "option" with Social Security.

There's no way that a public option could be an option. It wouldn't be sustainable. It would be all liability and no assets. The system would need young, healthy people to act as cash cows and those are the people who DO NOT NEED help from the government. So, in order for the government to get at their wallets, they're going to have to FORCE this "help" on people like they do Social Security.

We do not need a public option. We don't need any of this garbage of a plan.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

The problem with the public option as I see it is that it can't be sustained as an option.

Nobody in their right mind would opt in unless they're already sick and need care. This would make nearly everyone in the plan a taker and there would be no givers... unless healthy people were FORCED into this horrifyingly bad plan to be the cash cows.

The Democrats know this all too well. That's why they freaked out when W. Bush suggested that younger people should be able to opt out of Social Security. Anybody with a lick of sense, given the "option" to get away from Social Security and stop being a cash cow is gonna go for it. That's why there's no "option" with Social Security.

There's no way that a public option could be an option. It wouldn't be sustainable. It would be all liability and no assets. The system would need young, healthy people to act as cash cows and those are the people who DO NOT NEED help from the government. So, in order for the government to get at their wallets, they're going to have to FORCE this "help" on people like they do Social Security.

We do not need a public option. We don't need any of this garbage of a plan.

Fair and good point Gene. When I hear the POTUS state that health care should be regulated and demanded for everyone..like car insurance..I near lost it. I mean come on...if your broke and already on a medical type system..how in the hell are you gonna pay for a public option? What about a Mom with three kids and one income..how is she gonna find the extra money a month to cover her kids much less herself? Makes no sense...but then this plan doesn't make much sense imo.

The president has a good premise.good intentions..we all deserve and should receive good medical care...period. how to pay for it..that's what's gonna tank this baby into oblivion.

~Mysty

[patriciarnbsn]

I'm in the military and a young man who was temporarily in my unit, married with 3 kids one of his children, his baby son, his only son was born with a bad heart. He isn't even a year old yet and has required numerous surgeries, a bill totaling half a million dollars. The only reason he was able to get the care he needs (at one of the best heart surgery hospitals mind you) is because hes covered by Tricare through the millitary. Lets say you dont have a job that can cover you and your family with this level of health care. with no public option what options would someone in this position have?

First I would like to thank you for your service. Secondly, as a former nurse (ICU/ER and working with the homeless in a very large clinic) I can tell you there ARE currently many options for those without insurance. Every unit in a hospital has access to a Social Worker in the event you are unable to afford care. Often times in such situations the Social Worker can expede the process. As a nurse I never checked a patients insurance status. As a matter of fact I went out of my way to treat a patient with no family with extra care. Many doctors and hospitals donate services (major operations, cancer treatments to name a few) free of charge. Children are covered my medicaid and s-chip programs 100%. Sadly a member of my family was in need of a lung transplant and was taken care of by a world famous hospital and treated no differently than any other patient (she did not have insurance). The system is not perfect but should a tragic event arise by working with your doctor, hospital staff, and yes the evil drug companies in most cases a plan of care can be established.
Should we get this government health plan these options will not be available. When the govenment pannel says no you will have no where to turn. The doctors would then be in violation and risk losing there licsense and worse. I hope your friends son is doing well and I beg you to read this bill. It's time consuming but very eye opening.

[gdoane]

Fair and good point Gene. When I hear the POTUS state that health care should be regulated and demanded for everyone..like car insurance..I near lost it. I mean come on...if your broke and already on a medical type system..how in the hell are you gonna pay for a public option? What about a Mom with three kids and one income..how is she gonna find the extra money a month to cover her kids much less herself? Makes no sense...but then this plan doesn't make much sense imo.

The president has a good premise.good intentions..we all deserve and should receive good medical care...period. how to pay for it..that's what's gonna tank this baby into oblivion.

~Mysty

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090908/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_health_care_overhaul

The fines proposed are $950 for individuals and $3,800 for families who don't get health insurance. That's a blood out of a turnip proposal. Here we are in the hardest economic times of our lives, and Montana Senator Max Baucus (D, of course) thinks the way to help people is slapping them with four-digit fines?

If they don't have the money for health insurance, then they surely aren't going to have the money for the hefty fines.

We do not have the money that this plan is talking about spending. There are only about 100 Million tax forms sent to the IRS every year so realistically, there are only about 100 Million people to act as revenue sources for this proposed $900 Billion plan.

That's an insane $9,000. That's more than my house payment. Tax payers can't take that kind of additional burden on top of the outrageous amount of taxes we pay already.

I read that consumer spending drives 70% of the economy. Well, that money is going to come right out of consumer spending and with the economy on life support with businesses closing left and right, that kind of a hit will have devastating effects on the economy.

After all, if government putting money into consumer pockets is called "stimulus" and helps the economy, then it stands to reason that taking money out of consumer pockets is whatever the OPPOSITE of stimulus is.

Now, I've heard tell that the plan will pay for itself and that we'll be getting the money out of reduced costs to offset the expense.

But honestly, what is the Federal Government's track record when it comes to reduced costs? We're gambling the rent on this hokey plan and if those dice don't roll the way the government predicts it will, we're all going to be on the street.

But we'll have health care. Maybe we can go live in the hospital.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090908/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_health_care_overhaul

:eek::eek::eek: Holy Cannelloni's Batman! fines up to 3,800 per family who make three time above the poverty level? :rolleyes: I swear..common sense has run out of these people's ears like so much wax after a long day of swimming! :rolleyes:

The fines proposed are $950 for individuals and $3,800 for families who don't get health insurance. That's a blood out of a turnip proposal. Here we are in the hardest economic times of our lives, and Montana Senator Max Baucus (D, of course) thinks the way to help people is slapping them with four-digit fines?

Yeah...real smart...tax those who are already taxed to high heaven. Sure..that'll fix everything. :rolleyes: Gads...moron's...what can ya do but just shake your head and pray they go back under the rock or cave they crawled out of.

If they don't have the money for health insurance, then they surely aren't going to have the money for the hefty fines.

Guessing here..but....The IRS would have a field day! Finally something they (IRS) could use as a way to keep any tax returns from going back into the consumers hands. High taxes..high fines..and ooops...still not health care. God! Talk about a round house kicking in the pants...they'd have ya coming and going! Owwww....it's making my head hurt!

We do not have the money that this plan is talking about spending. There are only about 100 Million tax forms sent to the IRS every year so realistically, there are only about 100 Million people to act as revenue sources for this proposed $900 Billion plan.

That's an insane $9,000. That's more than my house payment. Tax payers can't take that kind of additional burden on top of the outrageous amount of taxes we pay already.

I read that consumer spending drives 70% of the economy. Well, that money is going to come right out of consumer spending and with the economy on life support with businesses closing left and right, that kind of a hit will have devastating effects on the economy.

After all, if government putting money into consumer pockets is called "stimulus" and helps the economy, then it stands to reason that taking money out of consumer pockets is whatever the OPPOSITE of stimulus is.

Now, I've heard tell that the plan will pay for itself and that we'll be getting the money out of reduced costs to offset the expense.

But honestly, what is the Federal Government's track record when it comes to reduced costs? We're gambling the rent on this hokey plan and if those dice don't roll the way the government predicts it will, we're all going to be on the street.

But we'll have health care. Maybe we can go live in the hospital.

Bold and italics mine...maybe we can all get used to pre Russian revolution ghoullogs (sp?) type living? Wouldn't the Dems be so proud? :rolleyes: Socialism express 101!

~Mysty

[DougBH]

Frankly, the basis of this thread is something like: I once met a poor person living in a box. Therefore, we need socialism.
Or actually, its more like: I met a person who could have been poor and living in a box, except he wasn't, so we need socialism.

[johnrocks]

I'm in the military and a young man who was temporarily in my unit, married with 3 kids one of his children, his baby son, his only son was born with a bad heart. He isn't even a year old yet and has required numerous surgeries, a bill totaling half a million dollars. The only reason he was able to get the care he needs (at one of the best heart surgery hospitals mind you) is because hes covered by Tricare through the millitary. Lets say you dont have a job that can cover you and your family with this level of health care. with no public option what options would someone in this position have?

In this State and the others that I do business in, if they have health insurance, even without maternity benefits; that baby is automatically covered after they are born so a heart condition,cancer,blood transfusions, etc. would be covered. It's called planning ahead and getting insurance BEFORE it's needed.