The biggest pack of lies to ever be publically presented on national TV

[5thIDSoldier]

Obama's entire speech was a lie. All of it. The entire thing from start to finish.

I applaud the congressman for saying what he said in the chamber. We need more people in Government with that kind of guts.

All of you people who vited for Obama have disgraced this country by placing such a man into office.

Do you know how to tell when Obama is lying? When he moves his lips....

[drylok]

While I understand that there is no language in the bill along the lines of "this would apply to illegal U.S. citizens" I can't find for the life of me the language that specifically excludes illegals or specifically notes that one would have to prove legal citizenship.
Can anyone help me find this?

[ArmyMAJretired]

Everyone else lies but Oboma. Didn't you hear him say that. He gives a partisan attack speach and then calls for unity. Like there isn't a partisan bone in his body and he's not playing politics with te issue.

He is fast and loose with the facts and couldn't lead water downhill!

[PredFan]

It just amazes me that after all this time and mounds and mounds of lies that anyone, even the most partisan liberal hack, can still believe anything that this liar has to say.

I've never heard him say anything that was the truth.

[ArmyMAJretired]

While I understand that there is no language in the bill along the lines of "this would apply to illegal U.S. citizens" I can't find for the life of me the language that specifically excludes illegals or specifically notes that one would have to prove legal citizenship.
Can anyone help me find this?

DING,DING, DING we have a winner.

Dems voted down an ammendment to require verification of citizenship.

[ArmyMAJretired]

He can't manage his czars, he can't manage the budget, earmarks, deficiets, etc.

He blew his 8% unemployment claim and was off by 2 trillion for the deficiet. He's either incompetent or a pathological liar. Could he be both?

[5thIDSoldier]

It just amazes me that after all this time and mounds and mounds of lies that anyone, even the most partisan liberal hack, can still believe anything that this liar has to say.

I've never heard him say anything that was the truth.

Indeed.

Only a fool would still believe Obama.

[PredFan]

You don't have to stick to one point. The illegal's eligability is only one of many lies. here's two more:

1. You can keep the doctor and insurance you have if you want to.

2. A public option will provide competition and keep insurance companies honest.

[5thIDSoldier]

He can't manage his czars, he can't manage the budget, earmarks, deficiets, etc.

He blew his 8% unemployment claim and was off by 2 trillion for the deficiet. He's either incompetent or a pathological liar. Could he be both?

Absolutely. He IS both. Im going to write his staff and tell them as much.

[Mohawk5]

Give us the same HC that the Politicians have!!!

[5thIDSoldier]

You don't have to stick to one point. The illegal's eligability is only one of many lies. here's two more:

1. You can keep the doctor and insurance you have if you want to.

2. A public option will provide competition and keep insurance companies honest.

Dont forget about the "there are no death boards" lie.

[drylok]

DING,DING, DING we have a winner.

Dems voted down an ammendment to require verification of citizenship.

You know that to be fact? I don't remember that, can you show me?

[5thIDSoldier]

While I understand that there is no language in the bill along the lines of "this would apply to illegal U.S. citizens" I can't find for the life of me the language that specifically excludes illegals or specifically notes that one would have to prove legal citizenship.
Can anyone help me find this?

You wont find it.

You will never find it because it doesn't exist.

They cannot afford to exclude the new base.

[witze]

How do you know he lied if nothing has been passed? How do you get upset at Town Hall meetings when there is nothing to get steamed about?

[5thIDSoldier]

How do you know he lied if nothing has been passed? How do you get upset at Town Hall meetings when there is nothing to get steamed about?

Open your eyes and read the bill. I have read all 1,016 pages, you obviously have not.

Have you been hiding under a rock, or are you just that bamboozled by our LIAR IN CHIEF?

I wouldn't believe Obama if he said day is light and night is dark.

[kat]

The biggest whopper is that this will weed out fraud waste and abuse from medicare and that's what will pay for this atrocity.

Since when has ANY govt program EVER run deficit neutral? Secondly, this pile creates more than FIFTY new offices. How in thee deepest depths of hell is the fed govt going to keep track of what all these branches and bureaucrats are doing? How the hell are they EVER going to hold the accountable accountable?

[Mustang JEB]

I wonder if he actually believes anything he says? Or does he know he's lying and laugh at the fools who do believe him?

[5thIDSoldier]

The biggest whopper is that this will weed out fraud waste and abuse from medicare and that's what will pay for this atrocity.

Since when has ANY govt program EVER run deficit neutral? Secondly, this pile creates more than FIFTY new offices. How in thee deepest depths of hell is the fed govt going to keep track of what all these branches and bureaucrats are doing? How the hell are they EVER going to hold the accountable accountable?

As has been very well pointed out time and again, this is about control of your life and growing the government. Thats all this is. And there will NEVER be any accountability at any level.

[Sknyluv]

Obama's entire speech was a lie. All of it. The entire thing from start to finish.

I applaud the congressman for saying what he said in the chamber. We need more people in Government with that kind of guts.

All of you people who vited for Obama have disgraced this country by placing such a man into office.

Do you know how to tell when Obama is lying? When he moves his lips....

I guess we'll have to just take your word on this. :rolleyes:

[ArmyMAJretired]

You know that to be fact? I don't remember that, can you show me?

Gee that was tough. If only someone would invent a search engine like google!

http://www.examiner.com/x-10317-San-Diego-County-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2009m7d21-White-House-health-care-bill-set-to-insure-illegals

July 21, 1:36 PMSan Diego County Political Buzz Examiner

The Democrats moved on Friday to allow an estimated 12 million illegal aliens into the proposed health care legislation. A Republican-backed amendment that would have prevented illegals from receiving free health care by checking citizenship status was defeated by Democrats in a mostly party-line vote of 23 to 18.

The plan known as the Heller amendment was written by Rep. Dean Heller, R-NV, and wanted to include clauses that mandated checks similar to E-Verify in order to qualify for government subsidized health insurance.

The Heller amendment said, “It would better screen applicants for subsidized health care to ensure they are actually citizens or otherwise entitled to it.”

The two identification processes the Heller amendment would use are programs the federal government already employ; The Income and Eligibility Verification System (IEVS) and the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE).

This news comes after Rasmussen reports poll states 80 percent of Americans oppose covering illegals in the health care bill.

Another amendment proposed by Heller included those members of Congress to enroll in the government-run health care program. This amendment was also defeated 21-18.

Both ideas were nixed by the Democrats, leaving health care for those in this country illegally in the massive $1.5 trillion health care package.

By leaving those illegally in the country in the health care package leads many experts to believe this is only the beginning for a back-door Amnesty.

[5thIDSoldier]

I guess we'll have to just take your word on this. :rolleyes:

Read the bill, hack.

You Obama pukes make me laugh.

[Sknyluv]

Read the bill, hack.

You Obama pukes make me laugh.

I'm glad. It would be way too depressing around here without us.

[nunyadb]

As has been very well pointed out time and again, this is about control of your life and growing the government. Thats all this is. And there will NEVER be any accountability at any level.

The Masters are not accountable to the slaves.
Ever.

What really gets me in all of this, is the black support of this stuff.
They finally get freed a hundred odd years ago, spend decades getting
things to the point of being considered equal citizens in fact as well
as in name, and now, they're simply going to allow this person to
slip chains of servitude right back on them ?

In the name of what ?
Equality ? Social justice ?

Sorry folks, but becoming a slave to a government is no different than becoming
a slave to a person and in most cases it's a damn sight worse as a bureaucracy
has no "better nature" of human kindness to appeal to.

Selling your soul for someone to care for you that doesn't care ABOUT you,
well, that's ludicrous. People need to wake the hell up and stop this insanity.

[PredFan]

The biggest whopper is that this will weed out fraud waste and abuse from medicare and that's what will pay for this atrocity.

Since when has ANY govt program EVER run deficit neutral? Secondly, this pile creates more than FIFTY new offices. How in thee deepest depths of hell is the fed govt going to keep track of what all these branches and bureaucrats are doing? How the hell are they EVER going to hold the accountable accountable?

Come on Kat! Since when has there ever been waste and abuse in anything connected with the government? Aren't hammers worth $500?

[kat]

I guess we'll have to just take your word on this. :rolleyes:


Hey! I was looking for the smartest person in the room and voila! Maybe you can explain just how the hell this is EVER going to be paid for?

[5thIDSoldier]

I'm glad. It would be way too depressing around here without us.

It would be funny if it weren't so terribly sad that you want your government to run every aspect of your life.

When you are 75 and can't get a proceedure approved, and they schedule you for your "end of life counseling", don't come crying to me.

[5thIDSoldier]

The Masters are not accountable to the slaves.
Ever.

What really gets me in all of this, is the black support of this stuff.
They finally get freed a hundred odd years ago, spend decades getting
things to the point of being considered equal citizens in fact as well
as in name, and now, they're simply going to allow this person to
slip chains of servitude right back on them ?

In the name of what ?
Equality ? Social justice ?

Sorry folks, but becoming a slave to a government is no different than becoming
a slave to a person and in most cases it's a damn sight worse as a bureaucracy
has no "better nature" of human kindness to appeal to.

Selling your soul for someone to care for you that doesn't care ABOUT you,
well, that's ludicrous. People need to wake the hell up and stop this insanity.

:clap:

[kat]

The Masters are not accountable to the slaves.
Ever.

What really gets me in all of this, is the black support of this stuff.
They finally get freed a hundred odd years ago, spend decades getting
things to the point of being considered equal citizens in fact as well
as in name, and now, they're simply going to allow this person to
slip chains of servitude right back on them ?

In the name of what ?
Equality ? Social justice ?

Sorry folks, but becoming a slave to a government is no different than becoming
a slave to a person and in most cases it's a damn sight worse as a bureaucracy
has no "better nature" of human kindness to appeal to.

Selling your soul for someone to care for you that doesn't care ABOUT you,
well, that's ludicrous. People need to wake the hell up and stop this insanity.


This quote from de Toqueville never gets old. In fact it applies more now than ever.

"Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom."

[kat]

Come on Kat! Since when has there ever been waste and abuse in anything connected with the government? Aren't hammers worth $500?


silly me.......... what was I thinking.

[Sknyluv]

Hey! I was looking for the smartest person in the room and voila! Maybe you can explain just how the hell this is EVER going to be paid for?

With Chinese money, naturally.

[5thIDSoldier]

With Chinese money, naturally.

Now THAT was funny!

[Sknyluv]

It would be funny if it weren't so terribly sad that you want your government to run every aspect of your life.



That broad brush you just used missed a spot ... oh ... there, you go it. Thanks! What else do you think I believe?

Fact is I do want health care reform, and I do want all Americans to be covered some way. What I also want is for both parties to stop acting like children and come together for the greater good.

[kat]

With Chinese money, naturally.


Sad isn't it?

[ArmyMAJretired]

That broad brush you just used missed a spot ... oh ... there, you go it. Thanks! What else do you think I believe?

Fact is I do want health care reform, and I do want all Americans to be covered some way. What I also want is for both parties to stop acting like children and come together for the greater good.

The problem is that the dems will only go with their plan. They accuse Republicans of not compromising when they won't.

When was the last time Obama met with the GOP over this? April I think.

[kat]

That broad brush you just used missed a spot ... oh ... there, you go it. Thanks! What else do you think I believe?

Fact is I do want health care reform, and I do want all Americans to be covered some way. What I also want is for both parties to stop acting like children and come together for the greater good.


Good. Then tell your buddies to get off the Tyranny already and get busy working on CONSTITUTIONAL solutions then we'll talk.

[deportalllibs]

That broad brush you just used missed a spot ... oh ... there, you go it. Thanks! What else do you think I believe?

Fact is I do want health care reform, and I do want all Americans to be covered some way. What I also want is for both parties to stop acting like children and come together for the greater good.

There will be no bipartisan effort so long as libs continue to lie through their teeth and demonize and ridicule private american citizens who dare disagree with them.

[old guy]

There will be no bipartisan effort so long as libs continue to lie through their teeth and demonize and ridicule private american citizens who dare disagree with them.

there will be no bipartisan effort because the right doesnt want any reform. they like the status quo since their corporate masters told them to block reform. fortuanatly this time it wont work. health care reform will pass and the right will end up being shut out of it. and when the 2010 and 2012 elections come about the right will be sent further into oblivion.

[Cletus Wilbury]

While I understand that there is no language in the bill along the lines of "this would apply to illegal U.S. citizens" I can't find for the life of me the language that specifically excludes illegals or specifically notes that one would have to prove legal citizenship.
Can anyone help me find this?

As an illegal is, well, illegal, an attempt to sign up for the government plan would just identify said person as being here illegally. The bill does not repeal the Reagan era law requiring Hospitals to provide emergency care to everyone.

And, this part, under:
SEC. 1173A STANDARDIZE ELECTRONIC ADMINISTRATIVE TRANSACTIONS

(a)(2)GOALS FOR FINANCIAL AND ADMINISTRATIVE TRANSACTIONS

page 58:


enable the real-time (or near real time) determination of an individual’s financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card;

That said, I would recommend Congress add language making this matter clear. I highly suspect the final bill coming out of the Congress will have such language.

Also note that the Obama administration is enforcing the immigration laws much more forcefully than any previous administration.

Prosecutions for employing illegal migrants up over 500% (http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2009/06/24/51175/prosecutions-for-employing-illegal-migrants-up-over.html) - 24 June 2009

[treadmill]

The Democrats will ram this legislation through...and...they will be thrown out of office in 2010 and 2012, after which the legislation will be torn down following unestimated damage to all of us. Obama was playing his usual slick salesman role, selling his electrolux vacuum clearners to hapless housewives (that's us. folks) while smirking Nancy and clueless Joe look on behind him. :rolleyes: That's my take.

Oh, by the way...illegals WILL be included, and look for Obama pushing for giving them voting rights...don't laugh, that's coming.

[Cletus Wilbury]

Open your eyes and read the bill.....

Really. All these claims (that I've seen) that Obama lied about something in the bill are lacking an important detail. What section of the bill they are referring to that does the things they claim.

[AvgGuyIA]

It would be funny if it weren't so terribly sad that you want your government to run every aspect of your life.

When you are 75 and can't get a proceedure approved, and they schedule you for your "end of life counseling", don't come crying to me.Unfortunately, under the Liberal Utopia Obama and his knuckle-dragging following have in mind, you, me and the like-minded will have already been declared "Obsolete" and eliminated.

[kat]

there will be no bipartisan effort because the right doesnt want any reform. they like the status quo since their corporate masters told them to block reform. fortuanatly this time it wont work. health care reform will pass and the right will end up being shut out of it. and when the 2010 and 2012 elections come about the right will be sent further into oblivion.


Enjoy your paradise. :rolleyes:

[Cletus Wilbury]

... ridicule private american citizens who dare disagree with them.

I ridicule people who complain about things without supporting their complaints with at least a semblance of detail. That applies to anybody, on any topic.

[PredFan]

there will be no bipartisan effort because the right doesnt want any reform. they like the status quo since their corporate masters told them to block reform. fortuanatly this time it wont work. health care reform will pass and the right will end up being shut out of it. and when the 2010 and 2012 elections come about the right will be sent further into oblivion.

Complete bull ****.

The right has designed a plan for reform and has made that plan public.

Have some more Kool-Aid.

[PredFan]

Really. All these claims (that I've seen) that Obama lied about something in the bill are lacking an important detail. What section of the bill they are referring to that does the things they claim.

So, you are completely unablle to put two and two together? You don't believe anything at all unless it's written?

Fortunately, I do not suffer from such a deficiency.

[PredFan]

I ridicule people who complain about things without supporting their complaints with at least a semblance of detail. That applies to anybody, on any topic.

Maybe you do, but Obama and his cronies don't. We have on almost every occasion provided details, extensive details, on Obama's lies and yet we still get ridiculed. We don't get ridiculed for our details, they act as if the details don't exist, we get ridiculed simply for speaking out.

I ridicule people who make statements such as yours.

[ArmyMAJretired]

As an illegal is, well, illegal, an attempt to sign up for the government plan would just identify said person as being here illegally.


Er, they use phoney IDs now. Every employer must fill out an I-9 form ensuring citizenship or work visa status.

They work under stolen SS numbers. They commit identity theft. Until the feds come up with a valid employment verification sytem, any claims illegals will not be covered is a LIE!

[Cletus Wilbury]

... They accuse Republicans of not compromising when they won't...

This Is What "Bipartisanship" Looks Like (http://www.slate.com/id/2223023/) - July 16, 2009


When the Senate health, education, labor, and pensions committee passed its health care bill Wednesday, the Obama administration hailed it as a "bipartisan" effort.
...
Of the 788 amendments filed, 67 came from Democrats and 721 from Republicans.... Only 197 amendments were passed in the end—36 from Democrats and 161 from Republicans. And of those 161 GOP amendments, Senate Republicans classify 29 as substantive and 132 as technical. ...


Ok, question the source.

But look at what Enzi said about that Senate bill:

Enzi Statement on Health Care Reform Discussions (http://help.senate.gov/Min_press/2009_09_03.pdf)

...
I opposed the Senate HELP Committee bill that passed on a straight party line vote, and I opposed the House bill reported out of Committee on a straight party line vote. That is not bipartisanship. I have consistently said that I would oppose a government-run option....


He didn't say the Dems refused all their amendments. You can bet he would have had that been the case. He's drawn a line, he's against the public option. The Dems want it. That's what it comes down to.

[rodeo]

Obama's entire speech was a lie. All of it. The entire thing from start to finish.

I applaud the congressman for saying what he said in the chamber. We need more people in Government with that kind of guts.

All of you people who vited for Obama have disgraced this country by placing such a man into office.

Do you know how to tell when Obama is lying? When he moves his lips....

Let me see if I get this straight....

Congressman Wilson took ten seconds and called a liar a liar....and some would like to blister him for it.

Barrack Obama took 35 minutes and lied continually....And we're supposed to believe that was a good speech.

Okey Dokey.

The Liar

[rodeo]

there will be no bipartisan effort because the right doesnt want any reform. they like the status quo since their corporate masters told them to block reform. fortuanatly this time it wont work. health care reform will pass and the right will end up being shut out of it. and when the 2010 and 2012 elections come about the right will be sent further into oblivion.

You know what....

I'm happy to see Obama's stupidity hung on the left.

You don't think the left has corporate masters....

Just because they come with names like ACORN and Moveon.org and George Soros and the AFLCIO and the Teachers Union and the SEIU doesn't mean the left isn't just as owned.

The institution of stupid ideas isn't reform...It's just abject stupidity.

[ArmyMAJretired]

This Is What "Bipartisanship" Looks Like (http://www.slate.com/id/2223023/) - July 16, 2009



Ok, question the source.

But look at what Enzi said about that Senate bill:

Enzi Statement on Health Care Reform Discussions (http://help.senate.gov/Min_press/2009_09_03.pdf)



He didn't say the Dems refused all their amendments. You can bet he would have had that been the case. He's drawn a line, he's against the public option. The Dems want it. That's what it comes down to.


Oh excuse me I though bipartisan might mean allowing H.R. 3400 (Price)
Empowering Patients First Act out of committee.

[Long Island Bob]

As an illegal is, well, illegal, an attempt to sign up for the government plan would just identify said person as being here illegally. The bill does not repeal the Reagan era law requiring Hospitals to provide emergency care to everyone.

And, this part, under:
SEC. 1173A STANDARDIZE ELECTRONIC ADMINISTRATIVE TRANSACTIONS

(a)(2)GOALS FOR FINANCIAL AND ADMINISTRATIVE TRANSACTIONS

page 58:


That said, I would recommend Congress add language making this matter clear. I highly suspect the final bill coming out of the Congress will have such language.

Also note that the Obama administration is enforcing the immigration laws much more forcefully than any previous administration.

Prosecutions for employing illegal migrants up over 500% (http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2009/06/24/51175/prosecutions-for-employing-illegal-migrants-up-over.html) - 24 June 2009

1.
Under the bill, all employers of a certain size must proivide insurance for their employees (legal and illegal).

2.
As for the "public option" (the gov't run inurance company that will receive a $200b per year subsidy), the GOP offered an amendment requiring enrollment be limited to those who prove they are here legally. The Dems voted down the amendment.


Rep. Nathan Deal (R-Ga.) offered an amendment to the House Energy and Commerce Committee this morning that would explicitly prohibit illegal aliens from receiving health care benefits under the health care reform bill (H.R. 3200). The amendment was narrowly defeated 28-to-29 after two Blue Dog Democrats on the committee voted against the amendment.

Under the health care bill, states would be required to automatically enroll non-traditional Medicaid individuals to the proposed government-run option, but the bill does not provide any language that would require the states to verify citizenship status before the enrollment. Rep. Deal’s amendment would require them to verify an individual’s citizenship status before automatically enrolling them. . . .
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/july-30-2009/house-committee-votes-against-preventing-health-care-benefits-illegal-aliens.html

but other than that obama was telling the truth

[Cletus Wilbury]

.... Until the feds come up with a valid employment verification sytem, any claims illegals will not be covered is a LIE!

Good point, Major. That is a specific complaint.

Speaking of which: Attention Federal Contractors: New E-Verify Immigration Enforcement Rule Now in Effect (http://www.rotor.com/Default.aspx?tabid=510&newsid905=62127)

I wouldn't call it a lie, in any system there will be people who violates the rules. When they say illegals won't be covered I took it to mean according to the rules. Add to that that this administration is really starting to crack down on employers hiring illegals, which I think is the answer to our immigration troubles. Every other country I know of enforces the laws against hiring those without work permits to a much greater extent than the U.S. has.

[Cletus Wilbury]

1.
Under the bill, all employers of a certain size must proivide insurance for tehir employees (legal and illegal).

2.
As for the "public option" (the gov't run inurance company that will receive a $200b per eyar subsidy), the GOP offered an amendment requiring enrollment belimited totosewho porve tehy are herelegally. The Dems voted down the amendment.

but other than that obama was telling the truth

Other than many typos, good reply. (I'm not trying to dig you for the typos, just clarifying my praise)

Regarding the first part, they're illegal. If they sign up for the system they are likely to expose their illegal status and get deported. And, like I said previously, this administration is really getting serious about hiring illegals.

You guys are absolutely right that we can't cover everybody that sneaks across the border. That's also a big reason why so many of our other social safety net efforts are bleeding so much red ink, schools & emergency rooms at the top of the list. Employers who hire illegals are ripping tax payers off. I was trying to teach here in San Diego, and the classes are full of student that speak no or little English who also have absolutely no respect for our nation, much less the teachers. I could go on and on.

[nobamayomama]

Good point, Major. That is a specific complaint.

Speaking of which: Attention Federal Contractors: New E-Verify Immigration Enforcement Rule Now in Effect (http://www.rotor.com/Default.aspx?tabid=510&newsid905=62127)

I wouldn't call it a lie, in any system there will be people who violates the rules. When they say illegals won't be covered I took it to mean according to the rules. Add to that that this administration is really starting to crack down on employers hiring illegals, which I think is the answer to our immigration troubles. Every other country I know of enforces the laws against hiring those without work permits to a much greater extent than the U.S. has. Like New Hire, they could utilize the Employment Security agencies to supply the data. You wouldn't believe the "corrections" I get to employer original reports where ONE social security number was recorded for multiple employees who had last names of Ramirez, Sanchez, etc. It's right under our noses and wouldn't take much to hunt down the employers employing illegals.

As far as Obama's pack of lie speech. Dittos. Not only that, but the WAY he was saying what he was saying. Comments about him sounding like he's declaring war (on republicans) is the same vibe I got from Obama's speech. It was NOT a respectful presidential speech - it was a divisive finger pointing 'we're gonna do this no matter what' type speech with all the anger and campaign type rhetoric.

I did, however, enjoy the republican guy and his speech afterwards. Listened to it on the radio on the way home and loved it. It gave me a sense of YEAH! Let's get this done! My reaction to Obama is YEAH! Let's get him OUT of the White House yesterday and put some adults back in power.

First Lie: republicans have no options. What crap.

[Cletus Wilbury]

Oh excuse me I though bipartisan might mean allowing H.R. 3400 (Price)
Empowering Patients First Act out of committee.

Did they allow a vote at least to let it out of committee?

If so, that's a big improvement over some GOPer tactics. (I'm thinking of Jesse Helms here, primarily. I know that was awhile ago)

[NorwayCool]

OThe biggest pack of lies to ever be publically presented on national TV.


Congratulations
you are now the undisputed world champion in the
gung ho class of
"Selective memory, faultless denial
and zealous prevarication “
in the
"Confederacy of the cataclysmic absent-minded"

[Cletus Wilbury]

Like New Hire, they could utilize the Employment Security agencies to supply the data. You wouldn't believe the "corrections" I get to employer original reports where ONE social security number was recorded for multiple employees who had last names of Ramirez, Sanchez, etc. It's right under our noses and wouldn't take much to hunt down the employers employing illegals.


Was this recent? I know the Bush administration really turned a blind eye to employers, but I've been reading that this administration is cracking down, and the employers are complaining. (good sign)



First Lie: republicans have no options. What crap.

Good point. I give ya that one. The only defense is I could claim it was just hyperbole, but that doesn't change the fact that it was false and Obama knows it.

note: I've called Hannity on a few of his 'hyperbole' moments in the past.

[Cletus Wilbury]

I ridicule people who make statements such as yours.

:lol: Fair enough!

[Cletus Wilbury]

So, you are completely unable to put two and two together?...

I'll entertain your beef. What part of the HR 3200 don't you like? Or any other bill (except I'll have to read it first)

[nobamayomama]

Was this recent? I know the Bush administration really turned a blind eye to employers, but I've been reading that this administration is cracking down, and the employers are complaining. (good sign) I'd love to know that someone is utilizing federal agencies to crack down - as I said the data is there, I see it everyday and talk to employers who hire people w/o SSN's EVERY DAY. If they are doing something about this, kudos. I should do some research...so much going on it's hard to keep up:eek:.



Good point. I give ya that one. The only defense is I could claim it was just hyperbole, but that doesn't change the fact that it was false and Obama knows it.

note: I've called Hannity on a few of his 'hyperbole' moments in the past. I agree everyone has their hyperbole from time to time, but when there ARE options and GOOD ones that make sense, cost little to nothing and are ignored but presented from the POTUS and Pelosi as "THE REPUBLICANS HAVE NO OPTION" that is not hyperbole, it's a flat out LIE to the people.

I like to play on current.com, Al Gore's capitalistic liberal website and the general consensus from those who hear but do not investigate on their own is that the republicans have no solution.

And Obama talks about adult debate and lies about something he shouldn't be lying about? I guess he figures we're all too stupid to gleen that all the video, stories and what not we find from the republicans on-line including bills is and option - that it is only a fantasy on our part since he says we have no option??????????? Gawd, let the adults have the white house again in 10~!

[Cletus Wilbury]

...
First Lie: republicans have no options. What crap.

After seeing this
Link to actual text of GOP alternative bill:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3400

I have another comment:


I can see why Obama doesn't consider this an option, Section 105. Almost all HMOs cover elective abortion, and that says:

"No funds authorized under this Act (or any amendment made by this Act) may be used to pay for any abortion or to cover any part of the costs of any health plan that includes coverage of abortion, except in the case where a woman suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness..."

So, nothing here could be used to pay for coverage under almost all HMOs.

[Cletus Wilbury]

I agree everyone has their hyperbole from time to time, but when there ARE options and GOOD ones that make sense, cost little to nothing and are ignored but presented from the POTUS and Pelosi as "THE REPUBLICANS HAVE NO OPTION" that is not hyperbole, it's a flat out LIE to the people. ...

You make good points.

[Cletus Wilbury]

I'd love to know that someone is utilizing federal agencies to crack down - as I said the data is there, I see it everyday and talk to employers who hire people w/o SSN's EVERY DAY. If they are doing something about this, kudos. I should do some research...so much going on it's hard to keep up:eek:.

Really. It's been a joke for a long time.

Regarding the research, I just google up the obvious terms and run across many like this:


Prosecutions for employing illegal migrants up over 500% (http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2009/06/24/51175/prosecutions-for-employing-illegal-migrants-up-over.html) - 24 June 2009


Immigration and Customs Enforcement seizes assets of employer charged with hiring illegal aliens (http://www.nixonpeabody.com/services_pubdetail.asp?ID=2843&SID=4) - 7/20/2009


Employers are accustomed to fines and penalties in such cases, but the use of forfeiture laws is a new and powerful governmental weapon that leaves employers defenseless and at great risk.

[5thIDSoldier]

Congratulations

you are now the undisputed world champion in the
gung ho class of
"Selective memory, faultless denial
and zealous prevarication “
in the

"Confederacy of the cataclysmic absent-minded"


Congratulations. You have topped the list of:

Mindless, snivelling, entitlement mentality, can't think for themselves boobs who are willing to surrender their freedom at the alter of cradle-to-grave government entitlement programs that enslave men rather than free them.

[Long Island Bob]

I'll entertain your beef. What part of the HR 3200 don't you like? Or any other bill (except I'll have to read it first)

I don't like
- the employer mandates (job killer, makes US products expensive vs. foreign products)
- the fact that it establishes a gov't run insurance company. (If a person can't afford insurance we should given him a voucher and let him choose instead of forcing him onto a one-size fits all plan)
- the fact that the amendment to limit the gov't insurance to legal US residents was defeated by Dems in committee.
- the fact that the bill lacks TORT reform and interstate purchasing reform.

[m'head]

Congratulations. You have topped the list of:

Mindless, snivelling, entitlement mentality, can't think for themselves boobs who are willing to surrender their freedom at the alter of cradle-to-grave government entitlement programs that enslave men rather than free them.


I'm curious. Have you read the bill to determine that all of the things you were told are there are actually there? There's a sticky that takes you to the bill in the WP Forum.

PS. When you were treated in the "government provider" system in the Army, did you feel enslaved?

[5thIDSoldier]

After seeing this


I have another comment:


I can see why Obama doesn't consider this an option, Section 105. Almost all HMOs cover elective abortion, and that says:

"No funds authorized under this Act (or any amendment made by this Act) may be used to pay for any abortion or to cover any part of the costs of any health plan that includes coverage of abortion, except in the case where a woman suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness..."

So, nothing here could be used to pay for coverage under almost all HMOs.

Yeah, dems love to pay for abortions. I have never understood that. They have paid for the deaths of 42 million taxpayers.

[5thIDSoldier]

I'm curious. Have you read the bill to determine that all of the things you were told are there are actually there? There's a sticky that takes you to the bill in the WP Forum.

PS. When you were treated in the "government provider" system in the Army, did you feel enslaved?

I have read the entire bill put forth in the House.

I am telling you as an HR and benefits person I know EXACTLY what it means, and Sean and Rush are EXACTLY right on.

This bill is about control, plain and simple.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the medical treatment system in the active Army. I see it as much closer to the VA system, which sucks.

[nobamayomama]

After seeing this


I have another comment:


I can see why Obama doesn't consider this an option, Section 105. Almost all HMOs cover elective abortion, and that says:

"No funds authorized under this Act (or any amendment made by this Act) may be used to pay for any abortion or to cover any part of the costs of any health plan that includes coverage of abortion, except in the case where a woman suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness..."

So, nothing here could be used to pay for coverage under almost all HMOs. There's another area they talked about last nite with alternatives to HB3200...my point being that there ARE republican alternatives while Obama and Pelosi repeatedly tell the nation there are not. That is simply a childish lie. The man has no business being president when he can't even admit the other side has ideas to be considered...

About the issue of abortion in that bill - I am glad taxpayers will not have to fund, as part of a public option, elective abortions for convenience. When are they going to figure out they are killing future taxpayers?

When I think of health care and reform, I think of helping those have some sort of coverage in case of sickness or to have access to a doctor for their health...not to take care of an unwanted pregnancy due to their own negligence and lack of morals, but I digress. Murder for inconvenience should NEVER be paid for by ANY insurance company with the exception of the circumstances listed and even at that, if the victim chooses to have the baby, include an alternative to abortion to give the child to an adoption company.

I also think of those who, in the case of a catastrophic illness would lose their home, etc...a fund should be set up so they don't lose their home and medical bills be paid. I would GLADLY pay a little extra tax for such a fund as long as it is led by a PRIVATE company and NOT the US government.
When I think of health care and reform,

[nobamayomama]

Yeah, dems love to pay for abortions. I have never understood that. They have paid for the deaths of 42 million taxpayers. Exactly!!!!! LOL! Wonder how they would respond if we put funding in for women to KEEP those babies and put them up for adoption (paying for the medical care of the pregnancy)....bet they would crack a whip!

[brody]

Congratulations
you are now the undisputed world champion in the
gung ho class of
"Selective memory, faultless denial
and zealous prevarication “
in the
"Confederacy of the cataclysmic absent-minded"
I had finally decided to call what you are referring to as "feigned ignorance" - but I see that there is a better description for the games that the libs come here to play.

So this must be how it is referred to in the liberal playbook. What suprises me is that the automatons can even understand what is being said given all of the big words.

Thanks.

[nobamayomama]

Really. It's been a joke for a long time.

Regarding the research, I just google up the obvious terms and run across many like this:


Prosecutions for employing illegal migrants up over 500% (http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2009/06/24/51175/prosecutions-for-employing-illegal-migrants-up-over.html) - 24 June 2009


Immigration and Customs Enforcement seizes assets of employer charged with hiring illegal aliens (http://www.nixonpeabody.com/services_pubdetail.asp?ID=2843&SID=4) - 7/20/2009

Yeah, it's been a joke, I agree. Thanks, I'll do some homework. Hoping for the headlines

"Obama administration passes bill to penalize hiring of illegals"

"Obama Administration Utilizes Federal Agency Databases to Catch Illegals"

"Obama Administration calls for Immediate Deportation of Illegals"

"Obama Administration Stops Sanctuary City Phenomena"

oopsie, this s/b in the illegal immigration thread.

[grapabeaux]

I can't start threads at work, but the anectdote Obama told about someone dying because his insurance was revoked is missing some important details. Like the fact that the patient died becuase of any insurance revocation.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obamas-story-about-lost-insurance


"One man from Illinois lost his coverage in the middle of chemotherapy because his insurer found that he hadn’t reported gallstones that he didn’t even know about. They delayed his treatment, and he died because of it."


From page 75 of the hearings transcript:
Mr. Barton. My next question is to the gentle lady there in the middle. Your brother, has he had his stem cell transplant?
Ms. Raddatz. He did indeed receive the stem cell transplant. It was extremely successful. It extended his life approximately 3-1/2 years. He did pass away January 6, 2009, and he was about to have a second stem cell transplant. Unfortunately, due to certain situations, his donor became ill at the last minute and so he did pass away on January 6. But again, it extended his life nearly 3-1/2 years and at his age, each day meant everything to him…
This is not quite the impression Mr. Obama gives with his rendition of Mr. Raddatz’s story.

Despite Mr. Obama’s claims, Mr. Raddatz’s treatment was never delayed. And he did not die because of it.

[DDawg]

Everyone else lies but Oboma. Didn't you hear him say that. He gives a partisan attack speach and then calls for unity. Like there isn't a partisan bone in his body and he's not playing politics with te issue.

He is fast and loose with the facts and couldn't lead water downhill!

Yea ... Kinda funny how that works ... All BOW to the KING of the USA ... (puking as I type)

[JeffR]

The biggest? Well, I've heard some pretty bad SOTU speeches in my day.

[Cletus Wilbury]

I don't like
- the employer mandates (job killer, makes US products expensive vs. foreign products)
- the fact that it establishes a gov't run insurance company. (If a person can't afford insurance we should given him a voucher and let him choose instead of forcing him onto a one-size fits all plan)
- the fact that the amendment to limit the gov't insurance to legal US residents was defeated by Dems in committee.
- the fact that the bill lacks TORT reform and interstate purchasing reform.


These are reasonable criticisms. On #1 , for companies who do already provide health insurance, they won't have to carry the load of covering uninsured people when they show up in the emergency room.
#2, I can't really argue with other than to say government does compete with private companies in electricity production, for one (see the TVA)
#3, I'll agree with you, with the provision that I haven't seen the amendment described.
#4 two parts, I'll agree with both.

[Cletus Wilbury]

Yeah, dems love to pay for abortions. I have never understood that. They have paid for the deaths of 42 million taxpayers.

Like I said, that provision would mean that the people using your vouchers wouldn't be able to join the vast majority of HMOs that exist today, even for a single man. It undercuts the whole purpose of the bill.

[animalnut]

While I understand that there is no language in the bill along the lines of "this would apply to illegal U.S. citizens" I can't find for the life of me the language that specifically excludes illegals or specifically notes that one would have to prove legal citizenship.
Can anyone help me find this?

I heard a legal discussion about illegal alien coverage and the fact abortion isn't mentioned. The fact that it is NOT mentioned is what means it will be covered. According to the atty, the Supreme Court has ruled on similar cases.

They insist abortion is not covered, but the fact the Hyde law (sp?) is NOT in it means it can be covered.

[Cletus Wilbury]

.... I see it as much closer to the VA system, which sucks.

Better than no insurance, for vets who can't afford it, don't you think?

I have friends who use it.

[Cletus Wilbury]

I heard a legal discussion about illegal alien coverage and the fact abortion isn't mentioned. The fact that it is NOT mentioned is what means it will be covered. According to the atty, the Supreme Court has ruled on similar cases.

They insist abortion is not covered, but the fact the Hyde law (sp?) is NOT in it means it can be covered.

There are many other laws that cover illegal aliens, that's why we call them illegals. They should put some wording in there to make it clear, but it would be redundant.

Regarding abortion, what the Dems say if they are careful, is that tax dollars won't be used for abortions. It's a bit of a dodge, as tax dollars will be used to pay part of low income people's premiums. Almost all HMO's cover elective abortions today, so nothing is really changing other than government helping people pay their premiums. After all, it's cheaper for HMOs (currently) than paying for the birth and adding more dependents to their roles.

[ArmyMAJretired]

Like I said, that provision would mean that the people using your vouchers wouldn't be able to join the vast majority of HMOs that exist today, even for a single man. It undercuts the whole purpose of the bill.

. Government Committee Determines What Benefits Are Available (Treatments, Drugs, Devices, etc): This section requires the Commissioner to specify what benefits can be made available under the private plan and the public plan in the Exchange. Of the four plan types permitted by the bill, the government will dictate what benefits will be allowed and in fact mandates that three of the four types have exactly the same benefits. Page 84; Section 203 and Page 85; Section 203, line 7

Looks like once passed HR 3200 would allow the committee to decide abortion is covered.

http://corporate.lexisnexis.com/news/corporate-counsel,compliance/cat200001_doc1029536286.html

HR 3200 dose not say abortions are covered but nowhere does it say no matter what they will not be covered.

Color me suprised, NOT.

[deportalllibs]

there will be no bipartisan effort because the right doesnt want any reform. they like the status quo since their corporate masters told them to block reform. fortuanatly this time it wont work. health care reform will pass and the right will end up being shut out of it. and when the 2010 and 2012 elections come about the right will be sent further into oblivion.

Don't worry when the libs are thrown out of office in 2010 we'll clean up Obama's mess for him

[Cletus Wilbury]

.

Looks like once passed HR 3200 would allow the committee to decide abortion is covered.

http://corporate.lexisnexis.com/news/corporate-counsel,compliance/cat200001_doc1029536286.html

HR 3200 dose not say abortions are covered but nowhere does it say no matter what they will not be covered.

Color me suprised, NOT.

Major, that comment of mine was referring to the GOP plan, HR3400

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3400

[335Blues]

Hats off to joe wilson for saying what neede to be said to obma's face and in the presence of the entire congress. Obama is a liar, always has been always will be. It is common knowledge that the courts have ruled that if something isn't specifically prohibited, it is by default contained within. The liberals have repeatedly voted down specific language that wouold prohibit tax-payer funded abortions and health care for illegals within hr3200. Multiple times. Then they have the guts to say they and obama are not lying? Obama seems to be playing this game where he says stuff with his fingers crossed behind his back not believing that we can see both of his hands.

[Long Island Bob]

Like I said, that provision would mean that the people using your vouchers wouldn't be able to join the vast majority of HMOs that exist today, even for a single man. It undercuts the whole purpose of the bill.

Actually it means most HMO's would stop covering elective abortion.

[Long Island Bob]

These are reasonable criticisms. On #1 , for companies who do already provide health insurance, they won't have to carry the load of covering uninsured people when they show up in the emergency room.
#2, I can't really argue with other than to say government does compete with private companies in electricity production, for one (see the TVA)
#3, I'll agree with you, with the provision that I haven't seen the amendment described.
#4 two parts, I'll agree with both.

Rep. Nathan Deal (R-Ga.) offered an amendment to the House Energy and Commerce Committee this morning that would explicitly prohibit illegal aliens from receiving health care benefits under the health care reform bill (H.R. 3200). The amendment was narrowly defeated 28-to-29 after two Blue Dog Democrats on the committee voted against the amendment.

Under the health care bill, states would be required to automatically enroll non-traditional Medicaid individuals to the proposed government-run option, but the bill does not provide any language that would require the states to verify citizenship status before the enrollment. Rep. Deal’s amendment would require them to verify an individual’s citizenship status before automatically enrolling them.

“There are 11 million-plus illegal aliens in the nation,” Rep. Deal said during his introduction of the amendment. “We want to make sure that this bill does no extend benefits to those not in the country illegally.”

Preliminary data from the Federation for American Immigration Reform indicates that illegal immigrants already account for $10.7 billion in state and federal healthcare spending. Jack Martin, a FAIR special projects director, stated that this amount would go up unless reform legislation is modified. “The bill in its current form is in effect going to be tempting to illegal immigrants who are not yet receiving medical benefits,” Martin said. “We would expect that the cost would increase.”

A recent study by FAIR determined that healthcare reform would not have any real barriers against illegal immigrants enrolling in the taxpayer-funded public option, and that there would be no verification system to stop illegals from receiving credits to purchase private plans

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/july-30-2009/house-committee-votes-against-preventing-health-care-benefits-illegal-aliens.html

http://www.cairco.org/

http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/healthy-attitudes/news/view/1656408

[justsaynobama]

I hope the GOP doesn't bend over and take it....why does it have to be " sign on to the piece of **** Liberal agenda or nothing "

I have heard of plenty of alternative health insurance reform....why do we have to scrap the whole system?

For the life of me, I will never understand why anyone would want to support the growth of Government....and to support more mandates.

I am really sick of hearing how everyone " deserves" health care and insurance.... no one deserves a ****ing thing from someone else.... that term really ****es me off......

[Jim50]

I don't like
- the employer mandates (job killer, makes US products expensive vs. foreign products)
- the fact that it establishes a gov't run insurance company. (If a person can't afford insurance we should given him a voucher and let him choose instead of forcing him onto a one-size fits all plan)
- the fact that the amendment to limit the gov't insurance to legal US residents was defeated by Dems in committee.
- the fact that the bill lacks TORT reform and interstate purchasing reform.

- Giving the government access to your bank account
- Personal mandates

Goodness, we could go on and on and on

[Jim50]

there will be no bipartisan effort because the right doesnt want any reform. they like the status quo since their corporate masters told them to block reform. fortuanatly this time it wont work. health care reform will pass and the right will end up being shut out of it. and when the 2010 and 2012 elections come about the right will be sent further into oblivion.

Seems like you are just like Comrade President Obama when it comes to the truth here.

[5thIDSoldier]

Hats off to joe wilson for saying what neede to be said to obma's face and in the presence of the entire congress. Obama is a liar, always has been always will be. It is common knowledge that the courts have ruled that if something isn't specifically prohibited, it is by default contained within. The liberals have repeatedly voted down specific language that wouold prohibit tax-payer funded abortions and health care for illegals within hr3200. Multiple times. Then they have the guts to say they and obama are not lying? Obama seems to be playing this game where he says stuff with his fingers crossed behind his back not believing that we can see both of his hands.

Well said.

He is in fact a pathological liar, and hence the perfect representative for liberals who would prefer to stick their heads in the sand rather than to listen to the truth.

[5thIDSoldier]

Really. All these claims (that I've seen) that Obama lied about something in the bill are lacking an important detail. What section of the bill they are referring to that does the things they claim.

Really? Have you read the bill? I have. Page 16




(1) L
IMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—


11 (A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in

12 this paragraph, the individual health insurance
13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll
14 any individual in such coverage if the first
15 effective date of coverage is on or after the first
16 day of Y1


In other words, begining the first day of year 1, no insurance company is permitted to enrol anyone in their coverage. So where else except the public (gov) insurance will you go? Duh...

[PredFan]

I'll entertain your beef. What part of the HR 3200 don't you like? Or any other bill (except I'll have to read it first)

I don't think we were talking about what I like, which is none of it. We were talking about Obama telling lies. Which was pretty much all he did.

[PredFan]

I had finally decided to call what you are referring to as "feigned ignorance" - but I see that there is a better description for the games that the libs come here to play.

So this must be how it is referred to in the liberal playbook. What suprises me is that the automatons can even understand what is being said given all of the big words.

Thanks.

He doesn't understand it. He's just a mouthpiece. He regurgitates what he's told.

[PredFan]

Don't worry when the libs are thrown out of office in 2010 we'll clean up Obama's mess for him

We won't if the piece of trash bill gets passed. I wouldn't bet a wooden nickel that even if we won it all, house, senate, and later the WH, we wouldn't reverse this bill. Too much power to the government. The GOP would just enjoy the fruits of it and just blame the left.

This bill has to die now or we as a free nation will.

[5thIDSoldier]

We won't if the piece of trash bill gets passed. I wouldn't bet a wooden nickel that even if we won it all, house, senate, and later the WH, we wouldn't reverse this bill. Too much power to the government. The GOP would just enjoy the fruits of it and just blame the left.

This bill has to die now or we as a free nation will.

I hate to say this, but I think you are exactly right.

[5thIDSoldier]

He doesn't understand it. He's just a mouthpiece. He regurgitates what he's told.

Understanding it would require that he read it. That means he would have to know how to read. Since he is likely to be the product of a public school, his ability to read and think for himself is in serious doubt, hence his status as a mouthpiece for Obama.

[Cletus Wilbury]

Actually it means most HMO's would stop covering elective abortion.

Yep, like I said, not an option. Oh, that's what the President said too.

Nice try by the GOP, though.

[Cletus Wilbury]

.

Looks like once passed HR 3200 would allow the committee to decide abortion is covered.

http://corporate.lexisnexis.com/news/corporate-counsel,compliance/cat200001_doc1029536286.html

HR 3200 dose not say abortions are covered but nowhere does it say no matter what they will not be covered.

Color me suprised, NOT.

You got this one right. I think this is the biggest lie the Dems are telling, and it's not in any way hyperbole. Elective abortions will be covered under this plan. Maybe not paid for by tax dollars, only premiums & penalties for those who don't join. (the latter of which is really a tax)

[Long Island Bob]

Cletus,

the fact remains that either Obama was lying or he was referring to some hypothetical, unwritten bill.



The government’s standard method for preventing Illegal immigrants from receiving federal benefits is called SAVE (SYSTEMATIC ALIEN VERIFICATION FOR ENTITLEMENTS).

71 different federal programs use it.

The democrat written bill was written excluding all mention of SAVE or any other verification system.

On July 16 2009 Rep. Dean Heller (R-NV) offered an amendment in the Ways and Means committee that put the standard SAVE requirements into the bill. The Dems voted it down.


here is the amendment
http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/Heller_Amdt_Text.pdf

Here is the vote:
http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/tallysheet/heller7.htm

[PredFan]

The biggest pack of lies to ever be publically presented on national TV.

Hands down.

[Long Island Bob]

You got this one right. I think this is the biggest lie the Dems are telling, and it's not in any way hyperbole. Elective abortions will be covered under this plan. Maybe not paid for by tax dollars, only premiums & penalties for those who don't join. (the latter of which is really a tax)

Fact ALSO remains that
On July 16 Democrats voted against an amendment offered by Rep. Sam Johnson (R-TX) to ensure the defined minimum benefits in the government-run exchange not include abortions. The Democrats’ bill gives the Secretary of HHS and an unelected federal health board unprecedented authority to mandate which benefits private health plans in the exchange, and the government health plan, are required to cover.

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=137859

[Cletus Wilbury]

Fact ALSO remains that
On July 16 Democrats voted against an amendment offered by Rep. Sam Johnson (R-TX) to ensure the defined minimum benefits in the government-run exchange not include abortions. The Democrats’ bill gives the Secretary of HHS and an unelected federal health board unprecedented authority to mandate which benefits private health plans in the exchange, and the government health plan, are required to cover.

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=137859

Thanks for that link. I agree with the Dem vote. If an HMO wants to join the exchange, they need to offer minimum care, and I consider this part of it.

Some of the way the GOP titled those paragraph I also consider misleading at best.

Like: Democrats Refuse to Let Americans Keep the Insurance They Have and Like

The text of the amendments starts off:

"Strike subtitle B of title II of division A."

These are the sections that would include, which would gut the bill:

Subtitle B—Standards Guaranteeing Access to Affordable Coverage (page 19-25)
SEC. 111. PROHIBITING PRE-EXISTING CONDITION EXCLUSIONS.
SEC. 112. GUARANTEED ISSUE AND RENEWAL FOR INSURED PLANS.
SEC. 113. INSURANCE RATING RULES.
SEC. 114. NONDISCRIMINATION IN BENEFITS; PARITY IN MENTAL HEALTH AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE DISORDER BENEFITS.
SEC. 115. ENSURING ADEQUACY OF PROVIDER NETWORKS
SEC. 116. ENSURING VALUE AND LOWER PREMIUMS.

[darknessesedge]

Obama's entire speech was a lie. All of it. The entire thing from start to finish.

I applaud the congressman for saying what he said in the chamber. We need more people in Government with that kind of guts.

All of you people who vited for Obama have disgraced this country by placing such a man into office.

Do you know how to tell when Obama is lying? When he moves his lips....

the really amazing part is how the obama sheep all went baa baa baa during and after the speech.

[Cletus Wilbury]

...
http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=137859

On the other hand, I don't understand what the Dems had against this amendment:

Democrats Vote Against Making Sure Illegal Aliens Don’t Get Subsidized Health Insurance
(amendment offered by Rep. Dean Heller (R-NV) )

adds requirement to use

... Income and Eligibility Verification System (IEVS) and the Systematic Alien
Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) programs under section 1137 of the Social Security Act.


Perhaps because the bill already has a section to set up an automated system for verification.

[dizzzave]

While I understand that there is no language in the bill along the lines of "this would apply to illegal U.S. citizens" I can't find for the life of me the language that specifically excludes illegals or specifically notes that one would have to prove legal citizenship.
Can anyone help me find this?

Page 143, Lines 3 to 7:

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
not lawfully present in the United States.

[NCRedState]

Page 143, Lines 3 to 7:

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
not lawfully present in the United States.

So they can participate.

[dizzzave]

So they can participate.

In what sense? The govt won't pay for their healthcare. If they try and buy into the public option, its not going to be very hard to tell that they are illegals (when they don't have a legit Soc Sec. Num.)

The only thing that should matter regarding illegals is whether the govt. would be giving them money, and the quote I posted explicitly prohibits that.

[F9thRet]

there will be no bipartisan effort because the right doesnt want any reform. they like the status quo since their corporate masters told them to block reform. fortuanatly this time it wont work. health care reform will pass and the right will end up being shut out of it. and when the 2010 and 2012 elections come about the right will be sent further into oblivion.

To be fair, I think the right does want reform.

But IMHO, IT is just as bad as the Lefts. There is no constitutional power afforded to any one in the federal government that would allow such a thing. It is one of the largest expenses just talking about such an unconstitutional act.

Stephen

[Kea]

Page 143, Lines 3 to 7:

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
not lawfully present in the United States.

Please also show us the exact place where there is an enforcement procedure for the above and where in the bill there is a process for verification of status. I cannot find those fine points anywhere.