What do you think is the most important book that students should read in school?

[byzantine catholic]

As for me it is the Bible, the book that shaped Western Culture for two millenia to where we are now.:D

[Drawz]

As for me it is the Bible, the book that shaped Western Culture for two millenia to where we are now.:D

The whole thing?

[byzantine catholic]

The whole thing?Yeah why?

[betwixt]

In school? Well since they can allready read, I wouldn't go with an english book:D
So I'm gonna say a math book.

[byzantine catholic]

Yes of course kids should learn math but I kind of mea in the English category and the Bible has pretty much influenced Western Civilization for 2 millenia along with Greco-Roman culture.:D

[EnchantedFrog]

I read the entire World Book Encyclopedia, A to Z, when I was in grade school.

[Safiel]

"Human Action" by Ludwig von Mises

"Man, Economy and State with Power and Market" by Murray Rothbard

Either one of those, preferably BEFORE the kids heads get filled with statist and Keynesian nonsense.

[byzantine catholic]

"Human Action" by Ludwig von Mises

"Man, Economy and State with Power and Market" by Murray Rothbard

Either one of those, preferably BEFORE the kids heads get filled with statist and Keynesian nonsense.Someone needs to write a Capitalist Manifesto lol. But I think Adam Smith already wrote that.

[byzantine catholic]

I read the entire World Book Encyclopedia, A to Z, when I was in grade school.I read the entire dictionary when I was in middle school lol.

[Drawz]

Yeah why?

It seems like a huge waste of already limited time. Reading the Bible cover to cover would provide very little insight on how the Church and Christianity helped to shape the Western world.

[byzantine catholic]

It seems like a huge waste of already limited time. Reading the Bible cover to cover would provide very little insight on how the Church and Christianity helped to shape the Western world.But it would teach the student morality and discipline. Wait the book that created Christianity did not shape the Western world?:confused:

[Wake-Up]

But it would teach the student morality and discipline. Wait the book that created Christianity did not shape the Western world?:confused:

Thats not what Drawz said. He did not dispute your claim the contention is that simply reading the bible does not explain HOW it affected the development of the Western world or its culture.

The bible in and of itself is a collection of stories, tales and moral edicts. No where in the book does it evaluate its impact on society. That takes analysis and historical perspective.

It may teach morality, maybe discipline but how those tales, stories and characters influenced historical figures in the 1000 years after the bible was printed is not directly within its pages.

Simply reading the bible will not provide that insight.

[Drawz]

But it would teach the student morality and discipline. Wait the book that created Christianity did not shape the Western world?:confused:

See now you're talking about indoctrinating children into a religion, quite a bit different then teaching Christiany's influence on our culture.

In the history of Christianity, what percentage of Christians would you estimate have read the whole Bible?

[Drawz]

Thats not what Drawz said. He did not dispute your claim the contention is that simply reading the bible does not explain HOW it affected the development of the Western world or its culture.

The bible in and of itself is a collection of stories, tales and moral edicts. No where in the book does it evaluate its impact on society. That takes analysis and historical perspective.

It may teach morality, maybe discipline but how those tales, stories and characters influenced historical figures in the 1000 years after the bible was printed is not directly within its pages.

Simply reading the bible will not provide that insight.

I hate when people can explain my point better then I can! :)

[DLaw911]

Yes of course kids should learn math but I kind of mea in the English category and the Bible has pretty much influenced Western Civilization for 2 millenia along with Greco-Roman culture.:DSo now you want to start a war over which version of the bible including new testament versus old. And as far as having school kids in PUBLIC school read the bible it shoud be introduced as a fiction book and not historical,

[byzantine catholic]

So now you want to start a war over which version of the bible including new testament versus old. And as far as having school kids in PUBLIC school read the bible it shoud be introduced as a fiction book and not historical,No the Bible is fact thank you. And what do you mean by versions?

[TheBurningRed]

I don't want my kid to be reading or being taught the bible in Public Schools at all, its for to be read at home or at church, but not in a public school where kids with other beliefs than my own should not have it forced down there throats. How would you feel if your kid had to read something that you don't believe in? It would tick you off wouldn't it? So why should I or someone else cram christianity (or any other religion) down our sons and daughters throats at public schools?

Otherwise the books that maybe should be read in school
To Kill a Mockingbird
Watchmen
Dantes Inferno
Art of War
Atlas Shrugged
Any Hunter S. Thompson
Some Ernest Hemmingway
Of Mice and Men

[Drawz]

No the Bible is fact thank you. And what do you mean by versions?

For example, with or without the Apocrypha?

[byzantine catholic]

I don't want my kid to be reading or being taught the bible in Public Schools at all, its for to be read at home or at church, but not in a public school where kids with other beliefs than my own should not have it forced down there throats. How would you feel if your kid had to read something that you don't believe in? It would tick you off wouldn't it? So why should I or someone else cram christianity (or any other religion) down our sons and daughters throats at public schools?

Otherwise the books that maybe should be read in school
To Kill a Mockingbird
Watchmen
Dantes Inferno
Art of War
Atlas Shrugged
Any Hunter S. Thompson
Some Ernest Hemmingway
Of Mice and MenAnd yet the majority of the people in this country are Christia and wait wouldn't that make Dante's Divina Commedia questionable since it follows Catholic doctrine?

[DLaw911]

No the Bible is fact thank you. And what do you mean by versions?Well if you think there is only one version then there is no use discussing the issue. Just out of curiosity, assming you are referring to the New Testament, how do you plan to explain your idea to parents of Muslim, Athiest, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, Sikhism, and other non-Christian children.

[byzantine catholic]

For example, with or without the Apocrypha?That is a good point there and that would have to be addressed since Catholics and Orthodox believe in the Acrophya while Protestants do not.

[byzantine catholic]

Well if you think there is only one version then there is no use discussing the issue. Just out of curiosity, assming you are referring to the New Testament, how do you plan to explain your idea to parents of Muslim, Athiest, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, Sikhism, and other non-Christian children.Oops here we go multiculturalism!:rolleyes:

[Sinister Rouge]

Just off the top of my head...


The Quiet American
Julius Ceasar (OK, a play, but still important)
The Poisonwood Bible
All Quiet on the Western Front
Founding Brothers
1776
Fast Food Nation
A Tale of Two Cities
The Lords of Discipline
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings
The Kite Runner
Emancipation Denied
The Sun Also Rises
The Grapes of Wrath
The Killer Angels
Gates of Fire
Last of the Mohicans
The Canterbury Tales
Beowulf
Cold Mountain
Creeks and Seminoles
Guns, Germs, and Steel
1491
Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations
Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto (both of these would have to be read back to back)

[Sinister Rouge]

Oops here we go multiculturalism!:rolleyes:


More like 'here we go having students of different faiths in the classroom.'
Not everyone in America is a Christian, get over it.

[byzantine catholic]

Just off the top of my head...


The Quiet American
Julius Ceasar (OK, a play, but still important)
The Poisonwood Bible
All Quiet on the Western Front
Founding Brothers
1776
Fast Food Nation
A Tale of Two Cities
The Lords of Discipline
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings
The Kite Runner
Emancipation Denied
The Sun Also Rises
The Grapes of Wrath
The Killer Angels
Gates of Fire
Last of the Mohicans
The Canterbury Tales
Beowulf
Cold Mountain
Guns, Germs, and Steel
1491
Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations
Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto (both of these would have to be read back to back)Definitely agree with reading them back to back on the last 2 books since I believe Socialism and Communism and Marxism are a failed philosophy!:D

[Sinister Rouge]

Definitely agree with reading them back to back on the last 2 books since I believe Socialism and Communism and Marxism are a failed philosophy!:D


Good for you.
But I believe in giving students a full understanding of a variety of economic systems, and let them reach their own conclusions.

[byzantine catholic]

More like 'here we go having students of different faiths in the classroom.'
Not everyone in America is a Christian, get over it.But see that is what is wrong with this is that we have to make all the religions happy. I mean I know and are friends with atheists who do not mind religion.

[Sinister Rouge]

I don't mind religion either.
But if I wanted to have students read some sort of pro-atheist book, people would go nuts.

[Sinister Rouge]

I'd love to find a good book on the history of the Catholic Church, not necessarily for a classroom, but for my own edification.
The Catholic Church has had some very weird moments in its history.

[byzantine catholic]

I don't mind religion either.
But if I wanted to have students read some sort of pro-atheist book, people would go nuts.Just like if someone prays you do not have to be offened just do not be a part of it.

[byzantine catholic]

I'd love to find a good book on the history of the Catholic Church, not necessarily for a classroom, but for my own edification.
The Catholic Church has had some very weird moments in its history.Um what was the point of this?

[Sinister Rouge]

Just like if someone prays you do not have to be offened just do not be a part of it.


That sounds exactly like the current policy on prayer in public schools!

[Sinister Rouge]

Um what was the point of this?

Just wondering if there was one. If I could find a good book on the subject, it would add something to my lesson plans.

[byzantine catholic]

That sounds exactly like the current policy on prayer in public schools!:wall:

[Sinister Rouge]

:wall:


OK, you don't get it.

There is no law that says that students can't pray privately in schools. There are even student religion organizations (Fellowship of Christian Athletes, See You At the Pole, etc.) so they can pray together.

Even teachers can pray in schools, so long as they do it privately.

However, teachers and administrators cannot lead or encourage prayers. They are authority figures and should stay neutral when it comes to a student's spiritual life.

[byzantine catholic]

Just wondering if there was one. If I could find a good book on the subject, it would add something to my lesson plans.Maybe you could also find something the Anti-Catholicism in this country.:wall:

[Drew2]

No the Bible is fact thank you. And what do you mean by versions?

I assume you read a Catholic bible and not a Protestant one right? I mean just look at the Catholic Ten Commandments. Not quite the same as the others.

[Drawz]

Just like if someone prays you do not have to be offened just do not be a part of it.

Are you suggesting students should just not be a part of their classes required reading?

[Sinister Rouge]

Maybe you could also find something the Anti-Catholicism in this country.:wall:

Didn't say anything about it being anti-Catholic.
I like my history to be accurate, and non-biased.


Back to books...
There's a list of most banned books in America. I'd love to have a copy of every book on that list in a classroom. The very idea of censorship appalls me.

[byzantine catholic]

OK, you don't get it.

There is no law that says that students can't pray privately in schools. There are even student religion organizations (Fellowship of Christian Athletes, See You At the Pole, etc.) so they can pray together.

Even teachers can pray in schools, so long as they do it privately.

However, teachers and administrators cannot lead or encourage prayers. They are authority figures and should stay neutral when it comes to a student's spiritual life.Yeah I know that I thought you meant about the public prayer in school issues going on.

[byzantine catholic]

Didn't say anything about it being anti-Catholic.
I like my history to be accurate, and non-biased.


Back to books...
There's a list of most banned books in America. I'd love to have a copy of every book on that list in a classroom. The very idea of censorship appalls me.What I am saying islook up the Anti-Catholicism in the history of this country and see the treatment of Catholics.

[Sinister Rouge]

What I am saying islook up the Anti-Catholicism in the history of this country and see the treatment of Catholics.


It's well known that Catholics have been mistreated in this country for hundreds of years. The Pilgrims did it, the Protestant English did it (look at the interactions between the Protestant colonists in GA and the Catholic Spanish colonists in FL in the 17th, 18th and early 19th centuries.) It happened on both sides of the Civil War.
Anti-Catholicism has its roots in Britain, as well as a general anti-immigrant sentiment. The British (like most of continental Europe) have had a long history of conflicts between Catholics and Protestants. Later in American history, Catholicism became associated with Irish, Italian, and Eastern European and Latin American Immigrants.

But while I think it is an interesting topic, Anti-Catholicism in America pales in comparison to Anti-Catholicism in Europe at certain points in history. Neither is particularly relevant to what I'm looking for in a history of the Church as an institution.

[Quid]

The Crucible by Arthur Miller
Hamlet
The Hobbit
The God Delusion
Leaves of Grass
Pride and Prejudice
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams

[BrittleBullet]

But see that is what is wrong with this is that we have to make all the religions happy. I mean I know and are friends with atheists who do not mind religion.

Cool...
I, as an atheist, would be vehemently opposed to my daughter (who will be born in Dec.) being forced to read the Bible as fact or as a source of morality in school. I think any rational parent would be against their children being forced to read Bronze Age myths as fact or a definitive source of morality.

[Sinister Rouge]

I didn't think of Hamlet. Excellent choice.
Likewise with Pride and Prejudice.

Jane Eyre
Fahrenheit 451
1984
The Giver
My Cousin Sam is Dead
The Red Badge of Courage
All Over But The Shoutin'
Number the Stars
The Boy in the Striped Pajamas
The Jungle
Brave New World
The Great Gatsby
For Whom the Bells Tolls

[thr3]

I read the entire dictionary when I was in middle school lol.

I gather you were ugle, ergo you couldn't get a date so you read the dictionary!

Loser!

[James Juno]

I didn't think of Hamlet. Excellent choice.
Likewise with Pride and Prejudice.

Jane Eyre
Fahrenheit 451
1984
The Giver
My Cousin Sam is Dead
The Red Badge of Courage
All Over But The Shoutin'
Number the Stars
The Boy in the Striped Pajamas
The Jungle
Brave New World
The Great Gatsby
For Whom the Bells Tolls



This is a good list.

[hatman]

I'll add:

A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn (different perspective)

With The Old Breed - At Peleliu and Okinawa, by E.B. Sledge (best first-hand account of WWII written by an enlisted man)

[jimjames418]

I think that every student in this country should be required to read "The Federalist Papers" and "The Anti-Federalist Papers".

[chip]

Well if you think there is only one version then there is no use discussing the issue. Just out of curiosity, assming you are referring to the New Testament, how do you plan to explain your idea to parents of Muslim, Athiest, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, Sikhism, and other non-Christian children.


Maybe they can go sit in the library if they are uncomfortable.

[Drawz]

Maybe they can go sit in the library if they are uncomfortable.

Sit in the library for the length of time it takes to read and discuss the entire Bible? I guess they could as long as it wasn't required reading for the class. But that seems like a lot of time to spend on an elective topic.

[AutoRacer55]

Animal Farm

[NascarGirl2448]

Just off the top of my head...


The Quiet American
Julius Ceasar (OK, a play, but still important)
The Poisonwood Bible
All Quiet on the Western Front
Founding Brothers
1776
Fast Food Nation
A Tale of Two Cities
The Lords of Discipline
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings
The Kite Runner
Emancipation Denied
The Sun Also Rises
The Grapes of Wrath
The Killer Angels
Gates of Fire
Last of the Mohicans
The Canterbury Tales
Beowulf
Cold Mountain
Creeks and Seminoles
Guns, Germs, and Steel
1491
Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations
Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto (both of these would have to be read back to back)

Add The South Was Right to that list.

[breezyjr]

I think that every student in this country should be required to read "The Federalist Papers" and "The Anti-Federalist Papers".

+100!

I'm working on The Federalist Papers now. (side note our Language has changed so much) I was told I should read them at the same time for the counter publishing, but I can't read two books at once.

I think every student in High School should be required to read:

The Diary of Ann Frank
A Man Without A Country
Of Mice And Men
1984
Fountain Head (excellent scholarship opportunity for essay in the spring)
Atlas Shrugged ( excellent scholarship opportunity but essay due mid Sept)

And probably 10 more that I can't think of right now.

The Bible has no place in public school and should not be required reading in public school. IMHO the bible being fact is subjective at best.

And that comes from someone who grew up in Catholic Schools.

[DLaw911]

Maybe they can go sit in the library if they are uncomfortable.The parents are going to sit in the library?

Answer this -- not sure if you are a parent of a school aged kid but assume you are and you find out the kids are REQUIRED to read the Qur'an and they come home and want to talk to you about Allah. How fast would you be peddling down to the Principal's office to make some waves?

[chip]

The parents are going to sit in the library?

The kids

Answer this -- not sure if you are a parent of a school aged kid but assume you are and you find out the kids are REQUIRED to read the Qur'an and they come home and want to talk to you about Allah. How fast would you be peddling down to the Principal's office to make some waves?

I wasnt being serious, I was making a point about how parents who dont want their kids exposed to things like GLBT days etc. If putting the uncomfortable kids in the library is good enough for them then its good enough for Muslim kids.

[sgdp]

Animal Farm

[byzantine catholic]

I gather you were ugle, ergo you couldn't get a date so you read the dictionary!

Loser!I was not a nerd if that is what you are asking!:hand:

[Sinister Rouge]

Don't we have an education page for this kind of discussion?

[byzantine catholic]

Don't we have an education page for this kind of discussion?True.

[jimjames418]

Don't we have an education page for this kind of discussion?
Right. But only nerds post over there. ;)






j/k

[Residential Bob]

I read the entire World Book Encyclopedia, A to Z, when I was in grade school.You were in grade school for 30 years?

[ISYairio]

Economics In One Lesson or 1984 / Animal Farm / Brave New World or The Lost Boy.

[jimjames418]

Originally Posted by EnchantedFrog http://forums.hannity.com/firestorm/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?p=59852611#post59852611)
I read the entire World Book Encyclopedia, A to Z, when I was in grade school.
You were in grade school for 30 years?
More likely he had a set at home. I was a very good salesman those many years ago and sold a whole lot of those sets to homeowners. I also sold cookware, Miracle Maid cookware door to door. Was good at that also. But I hated it, only reason I did was because I could set my own hours, I was in college at the time with a family and needed the income.

[EnchantedFrog]

More likely he had a set at home. I was a very good salesman those many years ago and sold a whole lot of those sets to homeowners. I also sold cookware, Miracle Maid cookware door to door. Was good at that also. But I hated it, only reason I did was because I could set my own hours, I was in college at the time with a family and needed the income.
Thats right. In the '50s and '60s, door-to-door salesmen were quite common, hawking encyclopedias, bibles, vacuum cleaners, and don't forget the Fuller Brush Man.
My mom bought a set of World Books from one of these guys who ensured her that it would turn my sister and I into straight A students. Didn't work, by the way.

[nikoloslvy]

free to choose by milton friedman.

[angelicmadrigal]

Depends on what grade level we are talking about, as to what we should consider the basic staples of well rounded reading.

The ONLY thing I can say in the defense of reading the bible is that it is a really good way to examine different types of writing: parables, allegory, epistles or letters, and lyrical poetry. Of course you could do that with a lot of separate books too.

[angelicmadrigal]

Didn't work, by the way.

I actually loved our encyclopedias, it was a really good way to figure out what I was interested in learning about and what I was not.

[Clintville]

As for me it is the Bible, the book that shaped Western Culture for two millenia to where we are now.:D
That would be against a few Constitutional laws.

[Clintville]

Otherwise the books that maybe should be read in school
To Kill a Mockingbird
Watchmen
Dantes Inferno
Art of War
Atlas Shrugged
Any Hunter S. Thompson
Some Ernest Hemmingway
Of Mice and Men
Watchmen, the comic book?

[Clintville]

No the Bible is fact thank you.
Not when it comes to school

[Fitz]

Watchmen, the comic book?
I'll put my nerd hat on and tell you that it is a graphic novel.

[TinCan]

The Stand by Stephen King

[BryanC]

I thought that most of the texts read in highschool were rather mediocre.

Some books that I don't think have been mentioned:

Iliad
Odyssey
Aeneid
The Republic
Arabian Nights
Praise of Folly
Candid
anythingShakespeareanythingWordsworth and Byron
Dubliners
A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
Invisible Man
The Sound and The Fury

These are just a few of the books that I wish I could have read in highschool, anything to take the place of Ayn Rand!

[DLaw911]

.....I wasnt being serious, I was making a point about how parents who dont want their kids exposed to things like GLBT days etc. If putting the uncomfortable kids in the library is good enough for them then its good enough for Muslim kids.Oh, OK ... but, Say What??? hehe You lost me.

Anyway with smartphones and netbooks who needs libraries anymore?

[Apatriot]

As for me it is the Bible, the book that shaped Western Culture for two millenia to where we are now.:D


That's like asking what type of food should be the only one eaten.

We need to read a lot of different books, probably in the hundreds of books. Of course, the Bible is one of the important ones, but some Shakespeare, Mark Twain, Steinbeck, Hemingway, and a lot of others are also necessary.

[byzantine catholic]

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=744

[byzantine catholic]

Those scholars picked these 30 books.

#1 The Bible
Score: 116
Written: c. 1446 B.C. to c. A.D. 95 The Bible, the central work of Western Civilization, defines the relationship between God and man, and forms the foundation of faith in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Yet, today it is virtually banned in America’s public primary and secondary schools—meaning many American students may not encounter the most important book of all time in a classroom setting until they reach college.
#2 The Federalist Papers
Score: 106
Authors: Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, and James Madison
Written: October 1787 to May 1788 Written by Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, and James Madison, The Federalist Papers (http://www.hebookservice.com/bookpage.asp?prod_cd=C5187) first appeared in several New York state newspapers as a series of 85 essays published under the nom de plume "Publius" from the fall of 1787 to the spring of 1788. The purpose of The Federalist Papers was to garner support for the newly created Constitution. At the time the states were bound together under the Articles of Confederation, but the weakness of the Articles necessitated the Constitutional Convention of 1787. Once the Constitution was drafted, nine states were required to ratify it, so Hamilton, Jay, and Madison took up the effort to persuade skeptics. Because Hamilton and Madison were both members of the Constitutional Convention, their writings are instructive in divining the original intent of those who drafted the Constitution. According to the Library of Congress, the first bound edition of The Federalist Papers was published in 1788 with revisions and corrections by Hamilton. A bound edition with revisions and corrections by Madison published in 1818 was the first to identify the authors of each essay. To purchase The Federalist Papers, click here (http://www.hebookservice.com/bookpage.asp?prod_cd=C5187).
#3 Democracy in America
Score: 80
Author: Alexis de Tocqueville
Written: 1835 A left-leaning Frenchman who visited America in 1831, de Tocqueville produced an incisive portrait (http://www.hebookservice.com/bookpage.asp?prod_cd=C5962) of American political and social life in the early 19th Century. He praised the democratic ideals and private virtues of the American people but warned against what he saw as the tyrannical tendency of public opinion. Visiting during the heyday of slavery, de Tocqueville foresaw the troubles racial questions would pose for the country. He also was early in observing that judicial power had a tendency to usurp the political in the United States. He also wrote of the difficulties inherent in the egalitarian sentiment then gaining strength in America. "However energetically society in general may strive to make all the citizens equal and alike, the personal pride of each individual will always make him try to escape from the common level, and he will form some inequality somewhere to his own profit," he said. To purchase Democracy in America, click here (http://www.hebookservice.com/bookpage.asp?prod_cd=C5962).
#4 The Divine Comedy
Score: 57
Author: Dante Alighieri
Written: A.D. 1306-1321 One of the most frequently cited poems of all time, this epic allegory is an amalgam of Dante’s views of science, theology, astronomy, and philosophy. In it Dante recounts his imaginary journey through Hell, Purgatory, and Paradise, during which he realizes his hatred for his sin and becomes a changed man by the grace of God. The work contains three sections—"Inferno," "Purgatorio," and "Paradiso." In "Inferno," Dante journeys through Hell, led by the soul of the Roman poet Virgil. He describes Hell as a funnel-shaped pit divided into nine circles, each one a place for those people guilty of a particular sin, with suffering increasing as he descends to the bottom where Satan himself dwells. In "Purgatorio," Dante travels with Virgil up the Mount of Purgatory. Ten terraces make up the Mount and the process of purification for its occupants is arduous as they climb from terrace to terrace. When Dante and Virgil pass the final terrace, they glimpse Paradise where Beatrice, Dante’s first love, awaits and Virgil is forced to depart. In "Paradiso," Beatrice guides Dante through the various levels of Paradise. At the highest level, Empyrean, where God, Mary, and many of the angels and saints abide, Dante views the light of God, which leaves him speechless and changed.
#5 The Republic
Score: 55
Author: Plato
Written: c. 360 B.C. The Republic is likely the most important work of the most important and influential philosopher who ever lived. The writings of Plato, a disciple of Socrates in ancient Athens, provide the foundation of abstract thought for all of Western Civilization, and The Republic contains expositions of various theories of justice, the state and society, and the soul. Is justice a matter of being helpful to those who help you and harmful to those who harm you? Or is it simply the "interest of the stronger," defined by those who govern the rest of us, as post-modern leftists would have it? How should society be organized? How is the human soul structured? How may we arrive at truth? The first author in history to deal with such questions in systematic rational argument, Plato contrasts the ideal society with reality in a way later echoed in the City of God (No. 7) by St. Augustine—who explored his own soul in his Confessions (No. 9). Plato describes the first totalitarian utopia as part of his argument, the first of many thinkers to do so. Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "Out of Plato come all things that are still written and debated among men of thought."
#6 The Politics
Score: 54
Author: Aristotle
Written: Fourth Century, B.C. Aristotle, the most famous student of Plato, is one of the few men who managed to be highly appreciated both in his own time (he was hired to tutor Alexander the Great) and by posterity. His philosophy continues to form the backbone of Western thought. Much of his writing was lost for centuries, but its recovery helped Thomas Aquinas, in the 13th Century, and later political philosophers, develop the concept of natural law that became central to the Anglo-American understanding of just and limited government. Both John Adams and Thomas Jefferson cited Aristotle as an inspiration for the Declaration of Independence. In the Politics, Aristotle examines the formation and composition of civil society more simply and effectively than perhaps anyone since. Beginning with a complete accounting of the elements in the basic unit of society—the oikos or family home—the philosopher expands outward to discuss the larger unit of human existence, the city-state—or polis—in the same terms.
#7 (tie) Nicomachaean Ethics
Score: 52
Author: Aristotle
Written: Fourth Century, B.C. The Ethics is a collection of notes from Aristotle’s lectures, taken by his student Nicomachus. The Ethics’ elegant inductive arguments, developed hundreds of years before the Christian era, proved that man can indeed understand the basic concepts of good and evil without the aid of Divine Revelation—a fact that many leftists are unwilling to accept in their quest to destroy respect for objective rules of right and wrong. Unlike today’s secularists, Aristotle saw clearly that all human beings have a built-in need to pursue happiness through behaving properly. Aristotle analyzes why not all human actions lead to happiness, and reveals how a man’s daily choices between good and evil result in the habits of virtue or vice. Virtuous action, he concludes, makes men happy, whereas vice does not.
#7 (tie) City of God
Score: 52
Author: St. Augustine of Hippo
Written: A.D. 413-426 The City of God ranks as history’s most influential writing by a theologian. Augustine, the cultured bishop of an ancient Roman city in North Africa, created a philosophy of history that answered the argument of pagans who blamed the decline of Rome on the rise of Christianity. (Rome had first been sacked in 410.) Augustine explained human history in terms of Divine Providence and asserted that the Church would bring human history to its final consummation. At that consummation, the two "cities" that remained intermingled on Earth—the pure, virtuous city of God and the sinful, flawed city of man—would be separated into two. Augustine argued that the sinful practices of the pagan Romans helped prompt God to allow the Eternal City’s capture by barbarians. Augustine firmly implants teleology—the Aristotelian idea that all things have an ultimate purpose—into history just as previous Christian thinkers had adopted teleology to explain God’s plan for individual human beings. For Augustine, all of human history points toward a divine purpose.

[byzantine catholic]

#9 Confessions
Score: 47
Author: St. Augustine of Hippo
Written: c. A.D. 400 The Confessions is Augustine’s spiritual autobiography. Addressed to God, the book bares the author’s soul. Here Augustine explains the history of his life in terms of Divine Providence, much as in the City of God he explained the history of Rome. He owns up to the sins that pulled him away from faith despite the exertions of his intensely devout mother, St. Monica. In the course of describing both his exterior and interior life, Augustine reiterates the Christian philosophy of the human person expounded by St. Paul in his epistles. He describes the interplay among passion, will, and reason and attempts to explain why men do evil when they know better.
#10 Reflections on the Revolution in France
Score: 44
Author: Edmund Burke
Written: 1790 An Irish-born British politician of the late 18th Century, who was popular in America because of his opposition to taxing the colonies, Burke holds a prominent place in the history of English-speaking conservatives. Indeed, in The Conservative Mind, Russell Kirk singled him out as the first modern conservative intellectual. Burke’s early and energetic disapproval of the French Revolution proved prophetic in light of the Reign of Terror that followed. A champion of the inherent wisdom of long-settled traditions, Burke argued that by violently ripping up their nation’s institutions root and branch, the French had assured themselves years of chaos. If changes had to be made in France, he argued, could not the tried-and-true be kept and only the bad discarded? "Is it, then, true," he asked, "that the French government was such as to be incapable or undeserving of reform, so that it was of absolute necessity that the whole fabric should be at once pulled down and the area cleared for the erection of a theoretic, experimental edifice in its place?"
Honorable Mention
Natural Right and History by Leo Strauss – 38 points
The Conservative Mind by Russell Kirk – 36 points
A New Birth of Freedom: Abraham Lincoln and the Coming of the Civil War by Harry V. Jaffa – 33 points
Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis – 32 points
The Illiad by Homer – 31 points
King Lear by William Shakespeare – 29 points
The Abolition of Man by C.S. Lewis – 27 points
Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton – 25 points
Aeneid by Virgil – 19 points
Hamlet by William Shakespeare – 18 points
Modern Times by Paul Johnson – 18 points
Oedipus Trilogy by Sophocles – 18 points
Ideas Have Consequences by Richard Weaver – 17 points
Idea of a University by John Henry Newman – 16 points
The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich von Hayek – 16 points
Animal Farm by George Orwell – 14 points
Gorgias by Plato – 14 points
A Humane Economy by Wilhelm Roepke – 14 points
The Public Philosophy by Walter Lippman – 14 points
The Roots of American Order by Russell Kirk – 14 points

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

Just wondering if there was one. If I could find a good book on the subject, it would add something to my lesson plans.

Ken Follet...Pillars of the Earth. Gives you a greater yet clear understanding of not only living conditions during Europe beginning Middle (Dark) Ages; but also gives the foundation to the church, the power structure and why it was created and built as such. Great book..maybe a bit deep for 7th graders...but 8th and up would most certainly get it.

~Mysty

P.S. Great list of 'must reads' by the way. ;)

[Apatriot]

For example, with or without the Apocrypha?

Without the Apocrypha, with the Deuterocanonicals.

[Apatriot]

That is a good point there and that would have to be addressed since Catholics and Orthodox believe in the Acrophya while Protestants do not.

No, we don't believe in the Apocrypha (i.e. Catholics). We do believe in the Deuterocanonicals, which are separate from the Apocrypha.

[Apatriot]

More like 'here we go having students of different faiths in the classroom.'
Not everyone in America is a Christian, get over it.

yes, but regardless of that, to be a well educated person in America (regardless of your religious views), some basic understandings of the Bible are necessary. Much of English literature (meaning Literature in English) has biblical references. For example, Shakespeare alone has hundreds of biblical references.

[Apatriot]

I assume you read a Catholic bible and not a Protestant one right? I mean just look at the Catholic Ten Commandments. Not quite the same as the others.

None of the versions are quite the same (4 different).

The thing is, the "Ten Commandments" are actually 14 or 15 separate statements. If you look at the "long form" of the Commandments, the same basic rules apply. The difference is in how those 14 or 15 statements are separated.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

yes, but regardless of that, to be a well educated person in America (regardless of your religious views), some basic understandings of the Bible are necessary. Much of English literature (meaning Literature in English) has biblical references. For example, Shakespeare alone has hundreds of biblical references.

The same can be said/same rational can be used for teaching the Koran within world history class. Religious texts do indeed carry history within it's pages. However, those histories are made much clearer and with no religious intent within them in non-religious texts.

If we allow one religious text to be used for historical/history purposes; then by rational logic, all must be allowed. Open that can...and your gonna get more then worms. ;)

In this modern time, we can and do have access to purely historical text that describe an event/time clearly without delving into it's religious culture.

Best to keep (all) religion where it belongs...at home and out of the public school house.

~Mysty

[Apatriot]

The same can be said/same rational can be used for teaching the Koran within world history class. Religious texts do indeed carry history within it's pages. However, those histories are made much clearer and with no religious intent within them in non-religious texts.

If we allow one religious text to be used for historical/history purposes; then by rational logic, all must be allowed. Open that can...and your gonna get more then worms. ;)

In this modern time, we can and do have access to purely historical text that describe an event/time clearly without delving into it's religious culture.

Best to keep (all) religion where it belongs...at home and out of the public school house.

~Mysty

The Koran is nowhere near as important to English language literature as is the BIble. Now, in an Arabic class, I would reverse that.

An educated person without knowledge of the Bible is not truly educated. I'm saying nothing about beliefs, but just about basic cultural literacy. The Bible is important to understand our overal culture/history.

[Antrel]

Public schools are doing enough indoctrinating without the Bible being read.

[Greyclouds]

The Koran is nowhere near as important to English language literature as is the BIble. Now, in an Arabic class, I would reverse that.

The Bible was translated into English first in 1609 AD.

I'd argue that the Canterbury Tales were FAR more influential on English literature, as well as Beowulf.


An educated person without knowledge of the Bible is not truly educated. I'm saying nothing about beliefs, but just about basic cultural literacy. The Bible is important to understand our overal culture/history.

You are correct in part... albeit it depends PURELY on interpretation! Take the Gnostic perspective on the Bible (their identification of the aggressive, angry Demi-Urge in contrast to the later aspects that the Christian God would represent) and you'll see how widely varied interpretations can be!

My book that I'd recommend? Biology 8th Ed. by Campbell and Reese.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

The Koran is nowhere near as important to English language literature as is the BIble. Now, in an Arabic class, I would reverse that.

An educated person without knowledge of the Bible is not truly educated. I'm saying nothing about beliefs, but just about basic cultural literacy. The Bible is important to understand our overal culture/history.

How could the Koran, which is written in symbol text, be an influence on any language other then the one it was written in? Are you kidding? One could make the same statement about the bible itself....but hey...you pick out those few dog hairs...whatever floats your boat.

As for the the bible, which was translated from symbol text (Aramaic) (*gee...same language the Koran was originally written in,) into Greek and later translated into Latin...(*which the Koran also followed suit in it's translations within these languages)then finally translated into English is influential to the languages it was written in as well as the languages it was translated into...

Understanding a culture goes further then just it's religious background and foundations...oh it's part of understanding said culture...but far from the whole picture.

~Mysty

[Apatriot]

The Bible was translated into English first in 1609 AD.

I'd argue that the Canterbury Tales were FAR more influential on English literature, as well as Beowulf.

Thank you for giving me ammunition in this argument. Canterbury Tales is an example of literature with numerous biblical references. Just because the Bible itself wasn't in English, didn't mean that most people didn't understand biblical references.
Here's a link to the Pardoner's tale. The first page is awash in biblical references. Someone with no knowledge of the Bible would not understand this tale at all.

http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl-etexts/gchaucer/bl-gchau-can-pard.htm



You are correct in part... albeit it depends PURELY on interpretation! Take the Gnostic perspective on the Bible (their identification of the aggressive, angry Demi-Urge in contrast to the later aspects that the Christian God would represent) and you'll see how widely varied interpretations can be!

My book that I'd recommend? Biology 8th Ed. by Campbell and Reese.

I'm not talking interpretations at all. My main focus is that knowledge of the Bible (not belief or interpretation) is a necessity in understanding much of English (and probably Western) literature. See the above from Canterbury tales. Without knowledge of the Bible, the allusion to the crucifixion and then later to Lot, John the Baptist, Adam, Paul, etc., make no sense.

[Apatriot]

How could the Koran, which is written in symbol text, be an influence on any language other then the one it was written in? Are you kidding? One could make the same statement about the bible itself....but hey...you pick out those few dog hairs...whatever floats your boat.

As for the the bible, which was translated from symbol text (Aramaic) (*gee...same language the Koran was originally written in,) into Greek and later translated into Latin...(*which the Koran also followed suit in it's translations within these languages)then finally translated into English is influential to the languages it was written in as well as the languages it was translated into...

Understanding a culture goes further then just it's religious background and foundations...oh it's part of understanding said culture...but far from the whole picture.

~Mysty

My claim was just that an educated person in the Western World cannot be considered educated without knowledge of the Bible. Biblical allusions are rampant throughout our literature and culture. Read this passage from Chaucer. Pretend you don't know anything about the Bible. It doesn't make much sense does it.

http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl-etexts/gchaucer/bl-gchau-can-pard.htm

Much of English literature is that way.

Is the Bible all that is needed for this? Of course not. I can't imagine any one book fulfilling what the OP wanted. Thankfully, we don't have to make that choice in real life.

[neoINDIE]

As for me it is the Bible, the book that shaped Western Culture for two millenia to where we are now.:D

How about just watching the movie instead? ;)

[Greyclouds]

Thank you for giving me ammunition in this argument. Canterbury Tales is an example of literature with numerous biblical references. Just because the Bible itself wasn't in English, didn't mean that most people didn't understand biblical references.
Here's a link to the Pardoner's tale. The first page is awash in biblical references. Someone with no knowledge of the Bible would not understand this tale at all.

http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl-etexts/gchaucer/bl-gchau-can-pard.htm




I'm not talking interpretations at all. My main focus is that knowledge of the Bible (not belief or interpretation) is a necessity in understanding much of English (and probably Western) literature. See the above from Canterbury tales. Without knowledge of the Bible, the allusion to the crucifixion and then later to Lot, John the Baptist, Adam, Paul, etc., make no sense.

Well yes, knowledge of select portions of the Bible are necessary elements of the Canterbury tales. Also of other English literature pieces.

Other portions of the Bible are not. I would be all for a comparative religious reading in which certain stories of each religious text (edited for graphic content, of course) would be presented to students. I mean, there are allegories that include Greek Mythology extensively (Sisyphean task in teaching it all, I know) as well as other religions.

I believe that the book of Leviticus would actually be quite a counterproductive read for students, thereby necessitating its exclusion.

[Samm]

"The Art of War" - Sūn Zǐ Bīng Fǎ

There are many invaluable lessons to be learned there that transcend warfare.

[Broseph]

Any microeconomics 101 book.

A sound economic background inevitably leads to the smallest possible forms of government as government is typically one of the most inefficient ways to get anything done.

[Apatriot]

Well yes, knowledge of select portions of the Bible are necessary elements of the Canterbury tales. Also of other English literature pieces.

Other portions of the Bible are not. I would be all for a comparative religious reading in which certain stories of each religious text (edited for graphic content, of course) would be presented to students. I mean, there are allegories that include Greek Mythology extensively (Sisyphean task in teaching it all, I know) as well as other religions.

I believe that the book of Leviticus would actually be quite a counterproductive read for students, thereby necessitating its exclusion.

I do agree that a knowledge of Greek mythology is also necessary. I'm a believer in the liberal arts (with liberal in this case meaning free man, liberal education is that required for a free man).

[Greyclouds]

I do agree that a knowledge of Greek mythology is also necessary. I'm a believer in the liberal arts (with liberal in this case meaning free man, liberal education is that required for a free man).

I agree with that. The good thing is that the Iliad and Odyssey are already on some schools' reading lists!

I would like to see the inclusion of some Roman history as well, given that the entire Western World tried to follow the Roman model out of an obsession with the power/influence that they achieved in their time!

[Voxpopuli]

Is it just me or are most of the books recommended usually part of the standard curriculum:

Beowulf, Canterbury Tales, Mice and Men, Hamlet, 1984, Fahrenheit 451, Dantes Inferno, To Kill a Mockingbird, etc...

I think The Closing of the American Mind, despite the Straussian influence should be added to any schools required reading list.

[Samm]

I agree with that. The good thing is that the Iliad and Odyssey are already on some schools' reading lists!

I would like to see the inclusion of some Roman history as well, given that the entire Western World tried to follow the Roman model out of an obsession with the power/influence that they achieved in their time!

The lessons of the Iliad and Odyssey are so easily distorted by the socialist teachers than dominate our public schools. I shudder to think what "lessons" from Greek mythology and history that those teachers are indoctrinating our kids with. What do you think they tell the kids about Spartans for instance.

[Safiel]

Any microeconomics 101 book.

A sound economic background inevitably leads to the smallest possible forms of government as government is typically one of the most inefficient ways to get anything done.

Disagree with "any". Fully agree that economics background is absolutely vital in teaching that government is destructive.

Thus my suggestion, way earlier in this thread, of either "Human Action" by Ludwig von Mises or "Man, Economy and State with Power and Market" by Murray Rothbard. In particular, Rothbard's text, read with its supplement volume of "Power and Market" destroys any and all pretense for government intervention and indicts the state as the cause of all that is wrong in society.

On the contrary, many contemporary economic textbooks are rife with fallacies and bad doctrines, particularly the destructive doctrines of Keynesianism.