View Full Version : did obama break the law and send troops into alabama?
darknessesedge
August 14th, 2009, 11:44 pm
http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Liberties-Examiner~y2009m3d17-Did-Army-troops-patrol-the-streets-of-Samson-Alabama
"Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."
seems obama might be in real trouble.
seems that Walter Francis Fitzpatrick, III, United States Navy Retired
has filed a case against obama to U.S Attorney Russell Dedrick, and Assistant U.S. Attorney Edward Schmutzer, Eastern District, Tennessee
charging obama with treason.
http://jaghunters.blogspot.com/2009/03/tuesday-17-march-2009-to-mr.html
We come now to this reckoning. I accuse you and your military-political criminal assistants of TREASON. I name you and your military criminal associates as traitors. Your criminal ascension manifests a clear and present danger. You fundamentally changed our form of government. The Constitution no longer works.
very interesting.
jwil59
August 14th, 2009, 11:47 pm
For what???
I live in Alabama and if there was something wrong I am quite sure I would know.
Sounds like a fishy partisan witch hunt and I ain't no Obama fan either
darknessesedge
August 14th, 2009, 11:51 pm
For what???
I live in Alabama and if there was something wrong I am quite sure I would know.
Sounds like a fishy partisan witch hunt and I ain't no Obama fan either
did you even read the newspaper article?
ogibillm
August 14th, 2009, 11:58 pm
did you even read the newspaper article?
it's from march. any updates?
jwil59
August 14th, 2009, 11:59 pm
did you even read the newspaper article?
No I missed it but I have now. Actually I think that was Bob Riley's baby, the Govenor. Obama cannot order troops anywhere in Alabama without the Gov if I am not mistaken. That was one of the problems with Katrina, the govenor
darknessesedge
August 15th, 2009, 12:04 am
it's from march. any updates?
still looking.
you know it isnt gonna be easy...not with what we call a free press nowadays...hahahah
darknessesedge
August 15th, 2009, 12:05 am
No I missed it but I have now. Actually I think that was Bob Riley's baby, the Govenor. Obama cannot order troops anywhere in Alabama without the Gov if I am not mistaken. That was one of the problems with Katrina, the govenor
unless obama just sent them in..
that was the issue with katrina i know..if gwb sent in troops without the gov asking for help, he would have been charged.
jwil59
August 15th, 2009, 12:11 am
unless obama just sent them in..
that was the issue with katrina i know..if gwb sent in troops without the gov asking for help, he would have been charged.
I'm quite sure Obama did not send troops into Alabama.
darknessesedge
August 15th, 2009, 12:17 am
I'm quite sure Obama did not send troops into Alabama.
well someone did.
it wasnt the gov...he cant authorize and US troops..only the nat guard I believe.
so it was either a political type in the oama admin or a officer on his own ordering the troops to patrol the streets.
and I cant believe some US officer would do that voluntarily knowing that hthey were breaking the law.
Jagergeist
August 15th, 2009, 12:19 am
I would say it's a bit of a stretch to say Obama "might be in real trouble" based on information from a blog entry 5 months ago.
ModerateVoice
August 15th, 2009, 12:20 am
For what???
I live in Alabama and if there was something wrong I am quite sure I would know.
Sounds like a fishy partisan witch hunt and I ain't no Obama fan either
I believe if you think it smells fishy, your government says it should be reported....
flag@whitehouse.snitch
darknessesedge
August 15th, 2009, 12:24 am
I believe if you think it smells fishy, your government says it should be reported....
flag@whitehouse.snitch
wonder if obama will send troops to MY house if I reported this...hahahhaa
DLaw911
August 15th, 2009, 12:26 am
Man 'o man ... what compound does this guy (Fitzpatrick) barricade himself in?
Darkscream
August 15th, 2009, 12:27 am
http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Liberties-Examiner~y2009m3d17-Did-Army-troops-patrol-the-streets-of-Samson-Alabama
"Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."
seems obama might be in real trouble.
seems that Walter Francis Fitzpatrick, III, United States Navy Retired
has filed a case against obama to U.S Attorney Russell Dedrick, and Assistant U.S. Attorney Edward Schmutzer, Eastern District, Tennessee
charging obama with treason.
http://jaghunters.blogspot.com/2009/03/tuesday-17-march-2009-to-mr.html
We come now to this reckoning. I accuse you and your military-political criminal assistants of TREASON. I name you and your military criminal associates as traitors. Your criminal ascension manifests a clear and present danger. You fundamentally changed our form of government. The Constitution no longer works.
very interesting.
Oh Boy - Real Trouble.
As long as you define "real trouble" as silly, erroneous drivel.
ModerateVoice
August 15th, 2009, 12:29 am
wonder if obama will send troops to MY house if I reported this...hahahhaa
Report yourself; its your patriotic duty!
tom1468
August 15th, 2009, 12:31 am
This article is 4 months old and Sean, Rush and Glenn have not picked on it?
Must be a reason why they didnt pick up on it.
These guys have crews that work for them, that do nothing but research and read.
Something is wrong with this story, that is why these 3 left it alone.
darknessesedge
August 15th, 2009, 12:32 am
Report yourself; its your patriotic duty!
maybe obama will have a beer with me..
Id ask him for bbbbooossshhhh beer...hahahahah
Hellsbane
August 15th, 2009, 12:33 am
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=92191
I still think this is a violation of Posse Comitatus. That act is perfectly clear, no one has authority to order the use of regular US military troops to perform police actions within the borders of the US, unless authorized by the Congress.
The Posse Comitatus Act
Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
darknessesedge
August 15th, 2009, 12:36 am
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=92191
I still think this is a violation of Posse Comitatus. That act is perfectly clear, no one has authority to order the use of regular US military troops to perform police actions within the borders of the US, unless authorized by the Congress.
The Posse Comitatus Act
Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
agreed.
the law was broken, and obama being C and C should be looking into it.
or did he order the troops into the town?:eek:
darknessesedge
August 15th, 2009, 12:40 am
This article is 4 months old and Sean, Rush and Glenn have not picked on it?
Must be a reason why they didnt pick up on it.
These guys have crews that work for them, that do nothing but research and read.
Something is wrong with this story, that is why these 3 left it alone.
the real question is why hasnt the media picked up on it?
US troops deployed in a US town is MAJOR news..
course, the media has been busy covering club gitmo and getting warm tinglies..
Billy_Bob
August 15th, 2009, 12:41 am
agreed.
the law was broken, and obama being C and C should be looking into it.
or did he order the troops into the town?:eek:
Given the constitutional ramifications Obama knew or should have known.. he is definitely in the hot seat on this one... but given the libs in congress nothing will come of it..
darknessesedge
August 15th, 2009, 12:46 am
This article is 4 months old and Sean, Rush and Glenn have not picked on it?
Must be a reason why they didnt pick up on it.
These guys have crews that work for them, that do nothing but research and read.
Something is wrong with this story, that is why these 3 left it alone.
the real question is why hasnt the media picked up on it?
US troops deployed in a US town is MAJOR news..
course, the media has been busy covering club gitmo and getting warm tinglies..
darknessesedge
August 15th, 2009, 12:47 am
Given the constitutional ramifications Obama knew or should have known.. he is definitely in the hot seat on this one... but given the libs in congress nothing will come of it..
agreed.
this is more important than hc..
putting US troops into US towns...scary...
tom1468
August 15th, 2009, 12:51 am
the real question is why hasnt the media picked up on it?
US troops deployed in a US town is MAJOR news..
course, the media has been busy covering club gitmo and getting warm tinglies..
I could be wrong but I find it very hard to believe that , Rush, Sean and Glenn would not have taken this subject to task , unless their is something wrong with the story.
As far as the Media, I agree with you
I also agree that if Obama has done what this article accuses him of doing , he should be in deep crap.
I just find it hard to believe that their isnt something wrong with this story cause the big 3 conservative talk show host seem to be leaving it alone.
darknessesedge
August 15th, 2009, 12:59 am
Wednesday, March 18, 2009
Army Admits Troops Patrolled Samson, Alabama!
After photos from citizen journalists surfaced showing that Army troops patrolled the streets of Samson, Alabama during the recent mass-murder in the area, the Army has now admitted that those troops were present during a domestic law-enforcement matter.
As many have pointed out in recent days, there has been an ominous, growing alliance between law enforcement agencies and the U.S. military. Some have suggested that the Army is preparing to engage in domestic law enforcement.
http://thelibertysphere.blogspot.com/2009/03/army-admits-troops-patrolled-samson.html
it took citizens with proof with pics to make the military fess up.
gee I wonder what else is going on that is not reported?
DLaw911
August 15th, 2009, 12:59 am
maybe obama will have a beer with me..
Id ask him for bbbbooossshhhh beer...hahahahahWell, it doesn't hurt to ask.
darknessesedge
August 15th, 2009, 1:01 am
I could be wrong but I find it very hard to believe that , Rush, Sean and Glenn would not have taken this subject to task , unless their is something wrong with the story.
As far as the Media, I agree with you
I also agree that if Obama has done what this article accuses him of doing , he should be in deep crap.
I just find it hard to believe that their isnt something wrong with this story cause the big 3 conservative talk show host seem to be leaving it alone.
I have no idea if any of them ever discussed it.
Billy_Bob
August 15th, 2009, 1:03 am
Wednesday, March 18, 2009
Army Admits Troops Patrolled Samson, Alabama!
After photos from citizen journalists surfaced showing that Army troops patrolled the streets of Samson, Alabama during the recent mass-murder in the area, the Army has now admitted that those troops were present during a domestic law-enforcement matter.
As many have pointed out in recent days, there has been an ominous, growing alliance between law enforcement agencies and the U.S. military. Some have suggested that the Army is preparing to engage in domestic law enforcement.
http://thelibertysphere.blogspot.com/2009/03/army-admits-troops-patrolled-samson.html
it took citizens with proof with pics to make the military fess up.
gee I wonder what else is going on that is not reported?
Use of active duty military must be authorized by the president for deployment inside the US....
All photos will be confiscated and marked as top secret... it will just disappear...
chip
August 15th, 2009, 1:03 am
Heres the docs released through the FOIA
http://www.theblackvault.com/documents/alabamamassmurder.pdf
You guys are seriously stretching trying to say Obama is in trouble.
BTW what laws were executed by the MP's? They simply helped secure multiple crime scenes that the locals didnt have the man power to secure.
Billy_Bob
August 15th, 2009, 1:05 am
Heres the docs released through the FOIA
http://www.theblackvault.com/documents/alabamamassmurder.pdf
You guys are seriously stretching trying to say Obama is in trouble.
BTW what laws were executed by the MP's? They simply helped secure multiple crime scenes that the locals didnt have the man power to secure.
that explains why they haven't touched it.. Limited authority...
chip
August 15th, 2009, 1:07 am
Use of active duty military must be authorized by the president for deployment inside the US....
Thats not accurate at all.
My link above shows that there is already in place an agreement for Ft Rucker to assist the local authorities when called upon.
jimjames418
August 15th, 2009, 1:10 am
There was a thread about this incident when it happened. It went for about 150 posts IIRC. :think:
Billy_Bob
August 15th, 2009, 1:13 am
Thats not accurate at all.
My link above shows that there is already in place an agreement for Ft Rucker to assist the local authorities when called upon.
And the agreement had to be signed off by the president.. He had to give his OK for the agreement with specific stipulations.
darknessesedge
August 15th, 2009, 1:13 am
Thats not accurate at all.
My link above shows that there is already in place an agreement for Ft Rucker to assist the local authorities when called upon.
your a good poster and always have facts to back up what you post.
I believe you in that there was an agreement like you state above.
I did not know of an agreement, as it is kinda strange for a town in the US to have this type of agreement with the US military.
chip
August 15th, 2009, 1:14 am
There was a thread about this incident when it happened. It went for about 150 posts IIRC. :think:
Yep
http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?p=53914791#post53914791
Billy_Bob
August 15th, 2009, 1:16 am
And if i am not mistaken these agreements have been authorized all over the US with stipulations and notifications that must be made.
chip
August 15th, 2009, 1:16 am
your a good poster and always have facts to back up what you post.
I believe you in that there was an agreement like you state above.
I did not know of an agreement, as it is kinda strange for a town in the US to have this type of agreement with the US military.
Probably not so strange when you consider a large base with so many small rural towns around it. There has to be some working arrangement between the authorities.
chip
August 15th, 2009, 1:17 am
And the agreement had to be signed off by the president.. He had to give his OK for the agreement with specific stipulations.
Why do you think that? Maybe you have some proof of that claim?
That arrangement was made back in 2007. Read the document I provided.
chip
August 15th, 2009, 1:18 am
And if i am not mistaken these agreements have been authorized all over the US with stipulations and notifications that must be made.
The report says the locals called the MP's and asked for assistance in securing crime scenes which is what they did.
folly
August 15th, 2009, 1:19 am
To be honest, I could not care less. I would actually feel safer with troops on the street. They should be in major cities though, you would see gangs dissipate REAL fast.
Hellsbane
August 15th, 2009, 1:22 am
To be honest, I could not care less. I would actually feel safer with troops on the street. They should be in major cities though, you would see gangs dissipate REAL fast.
Or disintegrate real fast.
tom1468
August 15th, 2009, 1:22 am
To be honest, I could not care less. I would actually feel safer with troops on the street. They should be in major cities though, you would see gangs dissipate REAL fast.
So would your constitution
darknessesedge
August 15th, 2009, 1:24 am
Probably not so strange when you consider a large base with so many small rural towns around it. There has to be some working arrangement between the authorities.
ok.
I have no way of knowing, I live in the tampabay area...not known to be very rural...hahahha
folly
August 15th, 2009, 1:24 am
So would your constitution
Who cares, the Constitution has already been getting sh*t on for a while now, might as well just add to the list and get something good out of it.
Bigman Wil
August 15th, 2009, 1:25 am
To be honest, I could not care less. I would actually feel safer with troops on the street. They should be in major cities though, you would see gangs dissipate REAL fast.
Oh my God, that really is all I can say about that. The U.S. military is NOT a law enforcement agency any more than the NYPD is a military unit.
folly
August 15th, 2009, 1:26 am
Oh my God, that really is all I can say about that. The U.S. military is NOT a law enforcement agency any more than the NYPD is a military unit.
You would not consider MP's to be a law enforcement agency? Strange.
tom1468
August 15th, 2009, 1:27 am
The report says the locals called the MP's and asked for assistance in securing crime scenes which is what they did.
Let small towns without the man power man deals with other towns in the area and the county, that is what many in my area do.
tom1468
August 15th, 2009, 1:28 am
Who cares, the Constitution has already been getting sh*t on for a while now, might as well just add to the list and get something good out of it.
Ok, I dont think their is much left to say here
darknessesedge
August 15th, 2009, 1:30 am
You would not consider MP's to be a law enforcement agency? Strange.
mp is a military law enforce agency..
I wonder, can a mp arrest a civilian?
tom1468
August 15th, 2009, 1:31 am
You would not consider MP's to be a law enforcement agency? Strange.
My brother is a MP
What he has been taught and what a street beat police officer are taught are very different and both serve different roles and training suited to very different enviroments
Billy_Bob
August 15th, 2009, 1:31 am
Why do you think that? Maybe you have some proof of that claim?
That arrangement was made back in 2007. Read the document I provided.
a little history...
The Bush administration has called on lawyers in the Justice and Defense Departments to review the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which strictly limits the military’s ability to participate in domestic law enforcement. The Posse Comitatus—or “force of the country”—legislation was enacted at the end of the post-Civil War Reconstruction period, when the US military oversaw civil rule in states of the former Confederacy. The law has not been fundamentally amended since, and any changes would require Congressional approval.
General Eberhart told the New York Times: “My view has been that Posse Comitatus will constantly be under review as we mature this command, as we do our exercise, as we interact with FEMA [Federal Emergency Management Agency], FBI, and those lead federal agencies out there.... There are some situations where there’s no other alternatives, and federal forces have to be used to secure the safety and security of our people.”
link (https://wsws.org/articles/2002/jul2002/poss-j23.shtml)
Bigman Wil
August 15th, 2009, 1:32 am
You would not consider MP's to be a law enforcement agency? Strange.
Well considering that MP's are not licensed leo's then I would have to say no they are not. And quite frankly you didnt say MP's you said military in general.
Billy_Bob
August 15th, 2009, 1:33 am
mp is a military law enforce agency..
I wonder, can a mp arrest a civilian?
Only on a military installation... and even that is questionable and may need to be turned over to the FBI
darknessesedge
August 15th, 2009, 1:34 am
Only on a military installation... and even that is questionable and may need to be turned over to the FBI
ok.
so if the mp's in samsom came across any wrong doers, the ycould not arrest them then.
I guess the ycould hold a person until civ authorities arrived..but that opens another can of worms...
chip
August 15th, 2009, 1:39 am
Let small towns without the man power man deals with other towns in the area and the county, that is what many in my area do.
Cry me a river, theres nothing illegal about these agreements.
Billy_Bob
August 15th, 2009, 1:40 am
ok.
so if the mp's in samsom came across any wrong doers, the ycould not arrest them then.
I guess the ycould hold a person until civ authorities arrived..but that opens another can of worms...
all they could have done is detain until appropriate authorities arrived. UCMJ specifically limits MP's to military personnel. it does not prohibit them from acting at the command of a civilian LEO
chip
August 15th, 2009, 1:40 am
a little history...
link (https://wsws.org/articles/2002/jul2002/poss-j23.shtml)
Which has nothing to do with your claim.
tom1468
August 15th, 2009, 1:43 am
Cry me a river, theres nothing illegal about these agreements.
Wow a little sensitive
What is wrong with making a deal with neighboring towns and the county, my area does it and it works just fine.
Billy_Bob
August 15th, 2009, 1:44 am
Which has nothing to do with your claim.
But it does....
Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which strictly limits the military’s ability to participate in domestic law enforcement.
it lays the foundation of what must be reported and who may authorize..
Bigman Wil
August 15th, 2009, 1:45 am
Cry me a river, theres nothing illegal about these agreements.
Did you not read the law in question, these agreements are one hundred percent illegal.
Billy_Bob
August 15th, 2009, 1:48 am
this is the abstract
CHAP. 263 - An act making appropriations for the support of the Army for the fiscal year ending June thirtieth, eighteen hundred and seventy-nine, and for other purposes.
SEC. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section And any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment.
10 U.S.C. (United States Code) 375
Sec. 375. Restriction on direct participation by military personnel:
The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.
18 U.S.C. 1385
Sec. 1385. Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus
Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of
Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to
execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
Editor's Note: The only exemption has to do with nuclear materials (18 U.S.C. 831 (e)
Any agreement must be authorized by the POTUS
chip
August 15th, 2009, 1:49 am
Did you not read the law in question, these agreements are one hundred percent illegal.
No they arent. You really need to do some light reading on what is restricted by the law.
chip
August 15th, 2009, 1:50 am
Wow a little sensitive
What is wrong with making a deal with neighboring towns and the county, my area does it and it works just fine.
Good for you and what is wrong with the arrangement made in this example?
Nothing, they are perfectly legitimate and legal.
chip
August 15th, 2009, 1:52 am
But it does....
Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which strictly limits the military’s ability to participate in domestic law enforcement.
it lays the foundation of what must be reported and who may authorize..
The military wasnt being used in the executing of laws in this case nor in the arrangement docs I provided. And the President isnt required to sign off on arrangements between local authorities and an Army base. Thats a ridiculous claim.
tom1468
August 15th, 2009, 1:53 am
Good for you and what is wrong with the arrangement made in this example?
Nothing, they are perfectly legitimate and legal.
Well for one,
they are the military
and Two,
their are other options available
As far as being legal we highly disagree
Bigman Wil
August 15th, 2009, 1:53 am
No they arent. You really need to do some light reading on what is restricted by the law.
If you can show me the Congressional act permitting these agreements I will admit that the agreements are legal, however without an act of congress, per the law, these agreements are illegal no ifs ands or buts about it.
Billy_Bob
August 15th, 2009, 1:56 am
The military wasnt being used in the executing of laws in this case nor in the arrangement docs I provided. And the President isnt required to sign off on arrangements between local authorities and an Army base. Thats a ridiculous claim.
they may not act as civilian police! The President as CinC must authorize any agreement between public and federal military entities.
Chip wee gonna disagree on this issue...
chip
August 15th, 2009, 1:56 am
If you can show me the Congressional act permitting these agreements I will admit that the agreements are legal, however without an act of congress, per the law, these agreements are illegal no ifs ands or buts about it.
No congressional act is required. There is nothing in the agreement that is having the military execute the laws.
chip
August 15th, 2009, 1:59 am
they may not act as civilian police! The President as CinC must authorize any agreement between public and federal military entities.
Chip wee gonna disagree on this issue...
They werent acting as civilian police and no the President doesnt have to personally authorize cooperative agreements between the local law enforcement and the military in these cases. The military wasnt used to execute any laws in this case and NOTHING in the agreements I linked has the military executing the laws of Georgia.
redbone
August 15th, 2009, 2:00 am
No I missed it but I have now. Actually I think that was Bob Riley's baby, the Govenor. Obama cannot order troops anywhere in Alabama without the Gov if I am not mistaken. That was one of the problems with Katrina, the govenor
I remember, at the time, everyone was pointing the finger at the White House but could not get any feedback from Obama and his staff. http://cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=45206
(CNSNews.com) - The U.S. Army has launched an inquiry into how and why active duty troops from Fort Rucker, Ala., came to be placed on the streets of Samson, Ala., during last week's murder spree in that tiny South Alabama community. The use of the troops was a possible violation of federal law.
“On March 10, after a report of an apparent mass murder in Samson, Ala., 22 military police soldiers from Fort Rucker, Ala., along with the provost marshal, were sent to the city of Samson,” Harvey Perritt, spokesman for the U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC) at Fort Monroe, Va., told CNSNews.com on Monday.
“The purpose for sending the military police, the authority for doing so, and what duties they performed is the subject of an ongoing commander’s inquiry--directed by the commanding general of U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command, Gen. Martin Dempsey.”
redbone
August 15th, 2009, 2:01 am
No I missed it but I have now. Actually I think that was Bob Riley's baby, the Govenor. Obama cannot order troops anywhere in Alabama without the Gov if I am not mistaken. That was one of the problems with Katrina, the govenor
I remember, at the time, everyone was pointing the finger at the White House but could not get any feedback from Obama and his staff. http://cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=45206
(CNSNews.com) - The U.S. Army has launched an inquiry into how and why active duty troops from Fort Rucker, Ala., came to be placed on the streets of Samson, Ala., during last week's murder spree in that tiny South Alabama community. The use of the troops was a possible violation of federal law.
“On March 10, after a report of an apparent mass murder in Samson, Ala., 22 military police soldiers from Fort Rucker, Ala., along with the provost marshal, were sent to the city of Samson,” Harvey Perritt, spokesman for the U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC) at Fort Monroe, Va., told CNSNews.com on Monday.
“The purpose for sending the military police, the authority for doing so, and what duties they performed is the subject of an ongoing commander’s inquiry--directed by the commanding general of U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command, Gen. Martin Dempsey.”
Bigman Wil
August 15th, 2009, 2:02 am
No congressional act is required. There is nothing in the agreement that is having the military execute the laws.
Well then I guess we dissagree on what constitutes execution of the law, I guess they could stand around at a crime scene that would be true but the moment they tried to prevent someone from entering the crime scene then they cross the line.
chip
August 15th, 2009, 2:06 am
Well then I guess we dissagree on what constitutes execution of the law, I guess they could stand around at a crime scene that would be true but the moment they tried to prevent someone from entering the crime scene then they cross the line.
Preventing someone from entering a crime scene isnt executing a law either.
See there has to be a law that exists that the military is enforcing for there to be the execution of the law.
Didnt happen here nor are any examples in the agreements I linked to.
Billy_Bob
August 15th, 2009, 2:07 am
Well then I guess we dissagree on what constitutes execution of the law, I guess they could stand around at a crime scene that would be true but the moment they tried to prevent someone from entering the crime scene then they cross the line.
Any police activity that is directed by state law would violate the act. stopping a person from entering a crime scene would violate the law.
Bigman Wil
August 15th, 2009, 2:09 am
Preventing someone from entering a crime scene isnt executing a law either.
See there has to be a law that exists that the military is enforcing for there to be the execution of the law.
Didnt happen here nor are any examples in the agreements I linked to.
So there is no law preventing me from entering a crime scene? Thats good to know, Im going to get my scanner out so I can see me some blood and guts this evening.
tom1468
August 15th, 2009, 2:16 am
Redbone posted this link
http://cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=45206
In the link I noticed this:
Stromenger said. “They weren’t here to police, let me make that clear"
But then it also says this :
Jim Stromenger, a dispatcher at the Samson Police Department, confirmed the MP’s presence in the town, telling CNSNews.com that the troops “came in to help with traffic control and to secure the crime scene”--and the department was glad for the help.
They were here to help with traffic and to control the crime scene--so people wouldn’t trample all over
And further down in the article the most important part it reads:
The troops were apparently not deployed by the request of Alabama Gov. Bob Riley -- or by the request of President Obama, as required by law
Wrongful use of federal troops inside U.S. borders is a violation of several federal laws, including one known as the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, Title 18, Section 1385 of the U.S. Code
David Rittgers, legal policy analyst at the Cato Institute, said there are other laws barring use of federal troops outside of federal property, as well. “The security of a crime scene is something I think that would roll up in the category of a ‘search, seizure or other activity,’” Rittgers added
tom1468
August 15th, 2009, 2:19 am
Preventing someone from entering a crime scene isnt executing a law either.
See there has to be a law that exists that the military is enforcing for there to be the execution of the law.
Didnt happen here nor are any examples in the agreements I linked to.
Well David Rittgers, legal policy analyst at the Cato Institute, would disagree with you
He stated, “The security of a crime scene is something I think that would roll up in the category of a ‘search, seizure or other activity,’”
Bigman Wil
August 15th, 2009, 2:23 am
Well David Rittgers, legal policy analyst at the Cato Institute, would disagree with you
He stated, “The security of a crime scene is something I think that would roll up in the category of a ‘search, seizure or other activity,’”
Exactly, when a crime scene is secured, it is in effect the police seizing the entire scene until the investigation can be completed.
Astro Turf Sarducci
August 15th, 2009, 2:39 am
The section titled Mutual Aide is very specific about which circumstances are allowed under the MOU. Someone breached the understanding, for whatever noble reason. The request for aid indicates the use of the MP's was for crime scene protection, NOT a reason listed in the MOU. This looks like a case for local military and law enforcement to deal with. Probably why El Rushbo, Sean, Glenn, et al. didn't chase it. As much as we might have HOPED Obama was behind it, it just ain't so.
chip
August 15th, 2009, 12:33 pm
Well David Rittgers, legal policy analyst at the Cato Institute, would disagree with you
He stated, “The security of a crime scene is something I think that would roll up in the category of a ‘search, seizure or other activity,’”
Go ahead and provide the statute that is being executed. Im not really interested in what he thinks.
CaptPops
August 15th, 2009, 5:39 pm
This instance was covered months ago in a few threads. The troops were there because of 'Mutual Aid' pacts between the local police and the military. They were requested to help the local police protect the crime scene by the city's police chief. Then as other law enforcement backup arrived, the troops returned to their base. There are also mutual aid pacts with fire departments. It also works the other way, if the military asks for help, the local government enities will respond.