Bill O'Rilley vs. The Netherlands

[Sinister Rouge]

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/07/29/amsterdam-oreilly-fa.html

Is Amsterdam really that bad?
Not according to the Dutch.

[Samm]

What the heck do the Dutch know... they live there... they are immersed in the filth up to their eyebrows and don't know anything different.

[Sinister Rouge]

What the heck do the Dutch know... they live there... they are immersed in the filth up to their eyebrows and don't know anything different.


Yes, which is why their murder rate, drug use rate, and deaths by drug are so much higher than ours...


Or not.:rolleyes:

[johnrocks]

They are actually going to close some prisons,lol.
http://www.nrc.nl/international/article2246821.ece/Netherlands_to_close_prisons_for_lack_of_criminals

I know who I pich to win the debate and it's not O'Reilly.

[Samm]

Yes, which is why their murder rate, drug use rate, and deaths by drug are so much higher than ours...


Or not.:rolleyes:

First off, O'Reilly was not talking murder or drug use, but morals. The open acceptance of drugs and prostitution has attracted a seamy crime element to Amsterdam that makes the rest of Secular Europe look like Puritans. Statistics do not come close to describing the cesspool they have become.

[grapabeaux]

The Netherlands has started cracking down on enforcing their drug laws (which had always been on the books anyway). I'd say that's evidence enough that the city had some trouble with the tourist population.

[Samm]

They are actually going to close some prisons,lol.
http://www.nrc.nl/international/article2246821.ece/Netherlands_to_close_prisons_for_lack_of_criminals

I know who I pich to win the debate and it's not O'Reilly.

Crime rate does not indicate a moral society... it is more reflective of acceptance of certain behavior (no law against it) and a tolerance of crime... i.e. lack of enforcement. I doubt if there was a high crime rate in Sodom or Gomorrah either.

[Sinister Rouge]

First off, O'Reilly was not talking murder or drug use, but morals. The open acceptance of drugs and prostitution has attracted a seamy crime element to Amsterdam that makes the rest of Secular Europe look like Puritans. Statistics do not come close to describing the cesspool they have become.


So this "seamy crime element" is just not committing crimes?

[captusa]

First off, O'Reilly was not talking murder or drug use, but morals. The open acceptance of drugs and prostitution has attracted a seamy crime element to Amsterdam that makes the rest of Secular Europe look like Puritans. Statistics do not come close to describing the cesspool they have become.

Everybody pays for sex.
Prostitutes are just honest about it.
You believe prostitution and legal drug use is immoral.
The Dutch don't.
What about the statistics.
Maybe the Netherlands does not want to catch up with the USA in murders per capita of percentage of population imprisoned.

[johnrocks]

Crime rate does not indicate a moral society... it is more reflective of acceptance of certain behavior (no law against it) and a tolerance of crime... i.e. lack of enforcement. I doubt if there was a high crime rate in Sodom or Gomorrah either.

I don't claim to know that society over there,in fact, I complain constantly about comparing us to other countries when there are so many variables that sets us apart. I do however advocate full legalization,that's no secret.:angel:

[captusa]

So this "seamy crime element" is just not committing crimes?

Tricky little guys aren't they ?
Not committing crimes so they go unnoticed.

[The Girl from Ipanema]

What's with O'Reilly and The Netherlands anyway; did he get banned from there or something?

[captusa]

First off, O'Reilly was not talking murder or drug use, but morals. The open acceptance of drugs and prostitution has attracted a seamy crime element to Amsterdam that makes the rest of Secular Europe look like Puritans. Statistics do not come close to describing the cesspool they have become.

I question the morality of O'Reilly casting disparagement on the morals of others.

Facts and truth have never been kind to Mr. O'Reilly (and his imaginary Peabody Awards)

[BrittleBullet]

I hope he starts a boycott of The Netherlands just so he can quote the Amsterdam Business Review.

[King Cantona]

What the heck do the Dutch know... they live there... they are immersed in the filth up to their eyebrows and don't know anything different.

I've been there on a few occasions and I'm willing to stake my life that they have a MUCH higher percentage rate of passports by head of population than the US....

What I'm trying to say is that yes they live there but they have been abroad so they obviously DO know different...

[King Cantona]

They are actually going to close some prisons,lol.
http://www.nrc.nl/international/article2246821.ece/Netherlands_to_close_prisons_for_lack_of_criminals

I know who I pich to win the debate and it's not O'Reilly.

Yes well his French boycott REALLY brought the French to their knees didn't it?...:rolleyes:...

[King Cantona]

I hope he starts a boycott of The Netherlands just so he can quote the Amsterdam Business Review.

Yes, very true..........

What the world really needs right now is another fictional publication and for O'Reilly to claim that his boycott (self righteous wanker:rolleyes:) is bringing the country to its knees...

[BrittleBullet]

First off, O'Reilly was not talking murder or drug use, but morals. The open acceptance of drugs and prostitution has attracted a seamy crime element to Amsterdam that makes the rest of Secular Europe look like Puritans. Statistics do not come close to describing the cesspool they have become.

I'm assuming you know this from some anecdotal evidence derived from your experiences of spending time in The Netherlands, right?

[Broseph]

What's with O'Reilly and The Netherlands anyway; did he get banned from there or something?

He's a culture warrior (as evidenced by his 'Culture Warrior' segment) and a drug warrior.
He is an advocate of using legal measures in order to keep those he deems undesirable in the criminal class.

Holland, on the other hand, is very lenient, even for European standards, on what their people can do.

Not surprising that he doesn't like Dutchland. It's the same reaction you would get from Karl Marx analyzing Hong Kong.

[CaughtInTheMiddle]

Who do you guys think has more freedom? The US or The Netherlands.

[thr3]

First off, O'Reilly was not talking murder or drug use, but morals.

Yet the lack of 'morals' results in a lower murder and hard drug rate. Hummm.

[Samm]

So this "seamy crime element" is just not committing crimes?

Much of what they do is not considered a crime by the Dutch and much of the rest is not enforced. The result is a low crime rate.

[Samm]

Yet the lack of 'morals' results in a lower murder and hard drug rate. Hummm.

It's hard to say how their murder and hard drug use rate compares to ours. They, like many European countries, only count a death as murder once they have convicted somebody of the crime... the same distortion of statistics probably applies to hard drug use. If you are not arresting people you are not going to be convicting many of them are you.

[King Cantona]

Who do you guys think has more freedom? The US or The Netherlands.

The US of course, I visit the US often and you'll always find someone banging on about how free they are....

I've never heard anyone say that while I'm in Holland, everyone just walks around happy and are always happy to help others, even while they live under the jackboot of O'Reilly's (self righteous wanker:rolleyes:) disaproval....

They're a very brave people, first they are occupied by the Nazis and now they have to live in the face of a withering glare from a self righteous wanker, you've got to hand it to them...:cool:...

[King Cantona]

It's hard to say how their murder and hard drug use rate compares to ours. They, like many European countries, only count a death as murder once they have convicted somebody of the crime... the same distortion of statistics probably applies to hard drug use. If you are not arresting people you are not going to be convicting many of them are you.

Well I'll go out on a limb here, I'm only hazarding a guess you understand but I would guess that it's NOWHERE near as high as the US...

But that's just my personal guess........

[Broseph]

Who do you guys think has more freedom? The US or The Netherlands.

Depends who you ask. Gun owners would say the US. People that enjoy sex would say Holland.

One thing you can't argue is the US's appalling prison ratio compared to every other country on the planet.

For a country that talks about how free it is all of the time, many Americans seem to ignore the evidence that points to the contrary.

[Samm]

Depends who you ask. Gun owners would say the US. People that enjoy sex would say Holland.

One thing you can't argue is the US's appalling prison ratio compared to every other country on the planet.

For a country that talks about how free it is all of the time, many Americans seem to ignore the evidence that points to the contrary.

I agree with you about the US prison population (non-violent criminals who are not a danger to society should not be in prison), but are you claiming that anybody who thinks the US is more free than Holland doesn't like sex? :eh:

One freedom we have that you cannot deny Bro is that you are free to leave anytime you want. If Holland is so great, why are you here? Or don't you like sex? :razz:

[captusa]

Depends who you ask. Gun owners would say the US. People that enjoy sex would say Holland.

One thing you can't argue is the US's appalling prison ratio compared to every other country on the planet.

For a country that talks about how free it is all of the time, many Americans seem to ignore the evidence that points to the contrary.

Cuba and China are often cited as the most oppressive regiems in the world.
It must be true because they are 2nd and 3rd in the percent of their citizens imprisoned.
Who is first ?

[Samm]

Cuba and China are often cited as the most oppressive regiems in the world.
It must be true because they are 2nd and 3rd in the percent of their citizens imprisoned.
Who is first ?

Name one political prisoner in the US.

[Broseph]

I agree with you about the US prison population (non-violent criminals who are not a danger to society should not be in prison), but are you claiming that anybody who thinks the US is more free than Holland doesn't like sex? :eh:

One freedom we have that you cannot deny Bro is that you are free to leave anytime you want. If Holland is so great, why are you here? Or don't you like sex? :razz:

I was giving one example. The nymph probably would prefer Holland, all things except laws being equal, since you can buy it there. I would expect somebody like yourself to understand that I wasn't implying people that don't like sex also believe that the US is more free.

Also, the 'If you don't like it, leave it' argument is the authoritarian special. Put any law in place and then challenge people who don't like it to leave, as if laws are the only thing that keep somebody in one place.

I would leave except:

1) My family is here.
2) I don't speak Dutch and I've attempted to learn Spanish, a much less intricate language with lots of difficulty.
3) If you retain American citizenship after you leave, you may still be liable to pay income taxes to the crime syndicate known as the US federal government depending on how much in taxes you have already paid to the other government you reside under.

[King Cantona]

Depends who you ask. Gun owners would say the US. People that enjoy sex would say Holland.


I live in England and I have never met anyone who envies the US for its gun laws but ABSOLUTELY everyone I've ever met likes sex...

[King Cantona]

Name one political prisoner in the US.

Well as Guantanamo Bay is in Cuba technically there may be none....

[King Cantona]

1) My family is here.
2) I don't speak Dutch and I've attempted to learn Spanish, a much less intricate language with lots of difficulty.
3) If you retain American citizenship after you leave, you may still be liable to pay income taxes to the crime syndicate known as the US federal government depending on how much in taxes you have already paid to the other government you reside under.

Actually Broseph an American may have difficulty getting a work visa anyway but you don't need to speak Dutch, everyone speaks English...

I have been there a few times and everyone I've met speaks English....

[Drawz]

Actually Broseph an American may have difficulty getting a work visa anyway but you don't need to speak Dutch, everyone speaks English...

I have been there a few times and everyone I've met speaks English....

True, I've only been there once but everyone I met spoke English (and a couple other languages to boot). But even my buddy who's dad was a citizen had trouble getting official permission to work.

On another note, I was there for about twenty hours on a layover after a nine day stay in Karkov.

The first three things I did, in order, were:
1. Get a burger at McDonalds.
2. Spend an hour playing pinball. (At the time I was addicted)
3. Get really, really high at a "coffee shop".

[Drawz]

True, I've only been there once but everyone I met spoke English (and a couple other languages to boot). But even my buddy who's dad was a citizen had trouble getting official permission to work.

On another note, I was there for about twenty hours on a layover after a nine day stay in Karkov.

The first three things I did, in order, were:
1. Get a burger at McDonalds.
2. Spend an hour playing pinball. (At the time I was addicted)
3. Get really, really high at a "coffee shop".

Oh, and oogle hot, tall, blonde chicks.

...not saying Ukraine doesn't have hot chicks, they're just not tall or blonde...mostly.

[Broseph]

Actually Broseph an American may have difficulty getting a work visa anyway but you don't need to speak Dutch, everyone speaks English...

I have been there a few times and everyone I've met speaks English....

Hmm. Well you never know. I am looking to visit there soon. Maybe I'll love it too much.

Hahaha, I could be an english teacher. My background is finance, but I don't think anyone wants American finance people touching their money nowadays.

[Samm]

Well as Guantanamo Bay is in Cuba technically there may be none....

Since when are prisoners of war considered political prisoners? :eh:

[Samm]

I was giving one example. The nymph probably would prefer Holland, all things except laws being equal, since you can buy it there. I would expect somebody like yourself to understand that I wasn't implying people that don't like sex also believe that the US is more free.

Also, the 'If you don't like it, leave it' argument is the authoritarian special. Put any law in place and then challenge people who don't like it to leave, as if laws are the only thing that keep somebody in one place.

I would leave except:

1) My family is here.
2) I don't speak Dutch and I've attempted to learn Spanish, a much less intricate language with lots of difficulty.
3) If you retain American citizenship after you leave, you may still be liable to pay income taxes to the crime syndicate known as the US federal government depending on how much in taxes you have already paid to the other government you reside under.

Uh Bro... the "like it or leave it" line was the set up for the "Don't you like sex?" line... :neutral:

But since you admit that you want to leave, it negates the "authoritarian special" label you applied to the line. Rather it seems like my sarcasm cut pretty close to the bone. ;)

[Groundhog]

Since when are prisoners of war considered political prisoners? :eh:


Free Mumia! :))

[King Cantona]

Since when are prisoners of war considered political prisoners? :eh:

Aren't they supposedly 'Enemy Combatants'?....

Oh you have much to learn, are you one of the people who like Bill O'Reilly:rolleyes: thinks that everyone incarcerated there is "guilty"?...

Because there are cameramen and reporters locked up there too..........

[Stardust]

Crime rate does not indicate a moral society... it is more reflective of acceptance of certain behavior (no law against it) and a tolerance of crime... i.e. lack of enforcement.

Exactly, I was just reading yesterday (either the NY Times, or Wall Street Journal) that 1/2 of a society in Afghanistan is addicted to opium. (They had a front page picture of a mother giving an opium pipe to her 1 or 2 year old child.) Apparently, it is just common practice to do this in families over there (where most are addicted). Yet at the same time, these folks aren't put in jail for it. So, what do you have? It described people just living in filth, children not being properly taken care of. It even describes a woman who sells her son to laborers so she can buy opium for herself. It is a society that is not functional....people just walking around like zombies whose only purpose in life is to get their next fix. Yet, again, their jails are not filled. So, is this a good thing?

Of course, a society like this isn't on the same level as what we have in the Netherlands, but my point is, is that "having empty jails" doesn't constitute a healthy society either. It very often just means it is a society that allows all kinds of chaos and dysfunction to happen to its people.

[Samm]

Aren't they supposedly 'Enemy Combatants'?....

Oh you have much to learn, are you one of the people who like Bill O'Reilly:rolleyes: thinks that everyone incarcerated there is "guilty"?...

Because there are cameramen and reporters locked up there too..........

I have much to learn? Get real. Where are you getting your information... the Morning Star? Aljazeera? or Pravda? :eh: None of the people in Gitmo are political prisoners unless you consider killing or attempting to kill Americans a political statement. "Enemy combatants" (i.e. "prisoners of war") are there for their participation in an armed conflict, not on a basis of guilt or innocence on some criminal matter.

And reporters and cameramen?... give us a break! :rolleyes:

[King Cantona]

I have much to learn? Get real. Where are you getting your information... the Morning Star? Aljazeera? or Pravda? :eh: None of the people in Gitmo are political prisoners unless you consider killing or attempting to kill Americans a political statement. "Enemy combatants" (i.e. "prisoners of war") are there for their participation in an armed conflict, not on a basis of guilt or innocence on some criminal matter.

And reporters and cameramen?... give us a break! :rolleyes:

Give you a break?....

Yes, get off your arse and do some research, to my knowledge there is a Reuters reporter and an al Jazeera cameraman at Gitmo just for doing their job...

[Samm]

Give you a break?....

Yes, get off your arse and do some research, to my knowledge there is a Reuters reporter and an al Jazeera cameraman at Gitmo just for doing their job...

No... give us a break.

And there is no rule that says if you carry a camera and/or a lap top that you cannot also be a terrorist or an active supporter of terrorism... Joseph Goebbels for instance employed all sorts of cameramen and journalists. :rolleyes:

[King Cantona]

No... give us a break.

And there is no rule that says if you carry a camera and/or a lap top that you cannot also be a terrorist or an active supporter of terrorism... Joseph Goebbels for instance employed all sorts of cameramen and journalists. :rolleyes:

It's very impressive how you know EVERYTHING, I defer to your brilliance.....

I'm relying on you getting irony....

[Broseph]

Uh Bro... the "like it or leave it" line was the set up for the "Don't you like sex?" line... :neutral:

But since you admit that you want to leave, it negates the "authoritarian special" label you applied to the line. Rather it seems like my sarcasm cut pretty close to the bone. ;)

I do want to leave. I find the US government despicable.

However, 'Like it or leave it' is a very common tactic used by authoritarians. No negating that.

Pro-birthers probably think America has crappy abortion laws. Well, like it or leave it. Stoners probably think America has crappy drug laws. Like it or leave it. Anti-imperialists probably think that America is far too overstretched with its military ventures. Like it or leave it. People against nationalized health care don't want new legislation to pass. If it happens, tough. Like it or leave it.

I used to use that line a lot myself until I came to the conclusion that forcing fundamentalist ideas onto minority groups while telling them to 'like it or leave it' was not the most reasonable way to conduct politics.

[Samm]

I do want to leave. I find the US government despicable.

However, 'Like it or leave it' is a very common tactic used by authoritarians. No negating that.

Pro-birthers probably think America has crappy abortion laws. Well, like it or leave it. Stoners probably think America has crappy drug laws. Like it or leave it. Anti-imperialists probably think that America is far too overstretched with its military ventures. Like it or leave it. People against nationalized health care don't want new legislation to pass. If it happens, tough. Like it or leave it.

I used to use that line a lot myself until I came to the conclusion that forcing fundamentalist ideas onto minority groups while telling them to 'like it or leave it' was not the most reasonable way to conduct politics.

As a point of clarification I never said "like it or leave it." What I said was one of the freedoms guaranteed Americans is the right to leave the country anytime you want. How you interpret that is your own business.

So what are you waiting for; somebody to throw you a party? :razz:

[Samm]

It's very impressive how you know EVERYTHING, I defer to your brilliance.....

I'm relying on you getting irony....

I don't know everything, but I do know that you have not proven your assertions.

And playing the irony card just confirms that.

[King Cantona]

I don't know everything, but I do know that you have not proven your assertions.

And playing the irony card just confirms that.

"Playing the irony card just confirms that"?........

Thanks for educating me, I didn't realise that....

Another thing I realise is that you still haven't got up of your arse and done some research, though in this modern world all you have to do is do your research on a computer...

[King Cantona]

In fact I am incorrect, at the moment there is only one journalist in captivity at Guantanamo bay, there have previously been numerous detainees who are members of the press...

The US seems to be getting its act together......

Thank God Bush is history..........

http://debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=80109

[ThrowCop]

I have been to The Netherlands many times & to Amsterdam specifically nearly every trip.

The only immoral people there are the over-indulged tourists. The citizenry is decent, friendly and smart from my experience.

[Stardust]

Talk about touring the Netherlands, it is strange, how many years ago (before they had all the changes they have now in the Netherlands) most of us had visions of quaint white painted windmills, flat plains, tulips, Van Gogh, etc. (beautiful peaceful visions). Now when I think of touring the Netherlands (which I never would do) I think of the raunchy, filthy red light district, open drug use, etc.

I think the people who want to visit the Netherlands (particularly Amsterdam) probably fall into two categories – those who want to view a train wreck, and those who generally want to make use of the drugs, prostitutes, etc. It reminds me of a column I read years ago (don’t remember the author)…..he asked “what type of guys go to prostitutes anyway? I wouldn’t even shake the hand of one without two pairs of rubber gloves on.”

[King Cantona]

I think the people who want to visit the Netherlands (particularly Amsterdam) probably fall into two categories – those who want to view a train wreck, and those who generally want to make use of the drugs, prostitutes, etc. It reminds me of a column I read years ago (don’t remember the author)…..he asked “what type of guys go to prostitutes anyway? I wouldn’t even shake the hand of one without two pairs of rubber gloves on.”

Why would you spend hundreds of dollars travelling to Holland? If they want prostitutes or drugs they're in plentiful supply in the US. I have always found Holland to be a very peaceful, tranquil and laid back country but what do I know, I've actually been there.....:cool:......

[Dr. Funkenstein]

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/07/29/amsterdam-oreilly-fa.html

Is Amsterdam really that bad?
Not according to the Dutch.
I knew it...Bill O'Reilly is Nigel Powers...

Nigel Powers: All right Goldmember. Don't play the laughing boy. There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

[Greyclouds]

Crime rate does not indicate a moral society... it is more reflective of acceptance of certain behavior (no law against it) and a tolerance of crime... i.e. lack of enforcement. I doubt if there was a high crime rate in Sodom or Gomorrah either.

Yes, so that makes Victorian times easily the most moral time-period on the face of the planet, right?

Sex should be kept silent and infrequent... according to certain cultural mores.

[King Cantona]

Yes, so that makes Victorian times easily the most moral time-period on the face of the planet, right?

Good point.......

Jack the Ripper aside it was a very virtuous time........;).........

Children were put to work cleaning chimneys, we could do with that nowadays...:))...

[Stardust]

Why would you spend hundreds of dollars travelling to Holland? If they want prostitutes or drugs they're in plentiful supply in the US. I have always found Holland to be a very peaceful, tranquil and laid back country but what do I know, I've actually been there.....:cool:......

Actually I had been there (Amsterdam) many years ago. (Amsterdam was included in our European tour package.) It is not a place I would ever want to go back to though. And yes, it was like viewing a train wreck. Very sad.

[johnrocks]

Actually I had been there (Amsterdam) many years ago. (Amsterdam was included in our European tour package.) It is not a place I would ever want to go back to though. And yes, it was like viewing a train wreck. Very sad.

OK,I've never been there so I'm not disbelieving you or anyone but your accounts of Amsterdam and Throwcop's is very different from one another:eh:

[Vaard]

i would rather spend a week in the netherlands than a week in bill orielly.......

[Greyclouds]

i would rather spend a week in the netherlands than a week in bill orielly.......

That makes two of us :eek:

[Stardust]

i would rather spend a week in the netherlands than a week in bill orielly.......

I am Irish-Catholic and find Bill to be an embarrassment (rarely, if ever listen to him), but I agree with him on Amersterdam.

[King Cantona]

Actually I had been there (Amsterdam) many years ago. (Amsterdam was included in our European tour package.) It is not a place I would ever want to go back to though. And yes, it was like viewing a train wreck. Very sad.

Well there is more to Holland than just Amsterdam, I had a very nice time in Rotterdam for example, on another trip I visited the Phillips headquarters in Nijmegan, very enjoyable day out......

Also the WWII museum at Overloon, it's outside, it's where crashed planes and burnt out tanks have been grouped together...

All in all, a very enjoyable country and interesting place to visit......

[King Cantona]

i would rather spend a week in the netherlands than a week in bill orielly.......

Or in any place within a hundred square miles of the self righteous wanker.......

[johnrocks]

I watched Samantha Brown's trip there and it looks amazing! I so want to go to that region!
http://search.travelchannel.com/travel/Samantha%20Brown%20Amsterdam

[ThrowCop]

OK,I've never been there so I'm not disbelieving you or anyone but your accounts of Amsterdam and Throwcop's is very different from one another:eh:I imagine the tour took them straight to the Damrak. That is a few meters from the Red Light District & the coffee shops.

I might be the first American tourist to spend three days alone in Amsterdam & hit nothing but museums on one trip.

The Van Gogh, Rembrant, The Rijksmuseum, Anne Frank House, The Verzetsmuseum...

All great.

And again, the crap people in Amsterdam are not the locals, it is (forgive me King Cantona) the young UK boys on weekend holiday.

And the rest of The Netherlands is tranquil for the most part & virtually void of the drunken/stoned tourists.

[Stardust]

IAnd again, the crap people in Amsterdam are not the locals, it is (forgive me King Cantona) the young UK boys on weekend holiday.

And the rest of The Netherlands is tranquil for the most part & virtually void of the drunken/stoned tourists.

You seem to have a very limited view of responsibility here.

Here you have a country’s government (Netherlands) who have allowed their country to be the “train wreck of the world” and it is those “bad drunken tourists” who are the bad guys! Oooooo kkkkkkkk!

[King Cantona]

IAnd again, the crap people in Amsterdam are not the locals, it is (forgive me King Cantona) the young UK boys on weekend holiday.

No need to ask for forgiveness because I'm well aware that Brits abroad are among the most obnoxious tourists you could ever find...

That's the reason I've never been on a package holiday to Spain or Greece........

[ThrowCop]

You seem to have a very limited view of responsibility here.

Here you have a country’s government (Netherlands) who have allowed their country to be the “train wreck of the world” and it is those “bad drunken tourists” who are the bad guys! Oooooo kkkkkkkk!Yeah... that must be it.

You must be one of the Americans I have to apologize for when I travel abroad...

Arrogant idiots who think they know it all with one visit to one tiny aspect of an entire country & culture.

And if you think The Netherlands is the train wreck of the world then you can keep your xenophobic BS stuck up ya where it belongs.

Stay in your own hometown, cloistered in the blissful ignorance that comes from not having a damn clue.

[captusa]

I am Irish-Catholic and find Bill to be an embarrassment (rarely, if ever listen to him), but I agree with him on Amersterdam.

I am a human being and find Bill to be an embarrassment.

[Stardust]

I am a human being and find Bill to be an embarrassment.

You and I have had some contentious arguments in the past, but I have to say, once in awhile you make me laugh. (Pats Captusa on the back)!

[Wake-Up]

Help me out here please.

Why would anyone care what a bombastic TV personality like Bill O or his two cohorts think about the Netherlands? Are the Dutch trying to export their culture and laws to the US? Is there a groundswell of US citizens clamoring for the US to mirror their policies?

Its a sovereign country, cesspool or tranquil utopia. Don't like what they offer, don't travel there. Want to experience a different culture, book a trip if it appeals to you.

Some in the US favor more lenient laws regarding drugs and prostitution but is that movement so large and scary to Bill's producers that they are creating a story where one does not exist or was it just a slow news day when they offered that bit of entertainment?

I've been there myself, just 18 months ago. Fine country, nice people, very progressive, like it or not (too progressive for me) but I thought terrible food. Kind of like they tried mixing French, German and American cuisine. Certainly not as memorable as the food in France or Germany. Chocolate and coffee were excellent. Not a beer drinker that came highly recommended.

[King Cantona]

I am a human being and find Bill to be an embarrassment.

I am a human being AND an Irish Catholic so I find Bill O'Reilly doubly embarrassing....

[Samm]

"Playing the irony card just confirms that"?........

Thanks for educating me, I didn't realise that....

Not addressing the point, but instead resorting to irony means you had nothing substantive to say. I would have thought that was obvious.

Another thing I realise is that you still haven't got up of your arse and done some research, though in this modern world all you have to do is do your research on a computer...

Really? :eh: That's odd... I could have sworn the web sites I visited were real.. :think:

So tell us... if you want to leave this rotten despicable country for such a wonderful enlightened country like Holland, what's holding you back?

[Samm]

Why would you spend hundreds of dollars travelling to Holland? If they want prostitutes or drugs they're in plentiful supply in the US. I have always found Holland to be a very peaceful, tranquil and laid back country but what do I know, I've actually been there.....:cool:......

The perfect description of my stoned out friends in the 70s. :D

[Samm]

Yes, so that makes Victorian times easily the most moral time-period on the face of the planet, right?

Sex should be kept silent and infrequent... according to certain cultural mores.

No... the crime rate during the Victorian times was very high. They had many laws and enforced them vigilantly. This is not about sex and there is no comparison of that time to contemporary Holland. Many laws and rigid enforcement results in a high crime rate. Few laws and lax enforcement leads to a low crime rate... particularly when you don't officially record the crime statistically until there is a conviction.

[Samm]

i would rather spend a week in the netherlands than a week in bill orielly.......

In Bill O'Reilly!? :eek:

You will get no argument from me on that one... :neutral:

[Stardust]

Help me out here please.

Why would anyone care what a bombastic TV personality like Bill O or his two cohorts think about the Netherlands? Are the Dutch trying to export their culture and laws to the US? Is there a groundswell of US citizens clamoring for the US to mirror their policies?

I am not trying to defend Bill here, but just with any talk show host (who has to talk for about 3-4 hours a day for about 300 days a year) I imagine any subject can come up. So, he talked about Amsterdam. No big deal. Maybe the subject came up because we now have a liberal government in place and some have expressed the feeling that we should legalize these things.

What’s happened/happening in the Netherlands is a social experiment. How has this “utopia” worked out?

Quote from Alderman Lodewijk Asscher: “Money laundering, extortion and human trafficking are things you do not see, but they are hurting people and the city. The new reality will be more in line with our image as a tolerant and crazy place, rather than a free zone for criminals."

The city of Amsterdam announced it will close 43 of its 228 coffee shops because they are located too close to schools. These shops must close no later than December 2011. The owners are not allowed to move their coffeeshops to another location within the city. Mayor Job Cohen says he would like to spread the shops throughout the city, but almost all of the city’s boroughs are actively opposed. (DutchAmsterdam.nl) Hmmm, interesting. I would say of any group of people in the world, who actively have seen day to day the results of this trainwreck, it would be the people who lived nearby in the city’s boroughs – and all of them are actively opposed to it.

Just a few additional comments: I can’t imagine what has really gone on behind the scenes in some of these “dives” in Amsterdam, including the real number of women that have been “trafficked”, the disease spread from open prostitution, the children who have been harmed/influenced by this stuff (i.e., why has the city been forced to shut up these businesses that are close to schools), the amount of money laundered, or the brutality that has gone on by organized crime. YOU WILL NEVER KNOW EITHER. And that is just the way the Dutch want it to be.

[King Cantona]

Not addressing the point, but instead resorting to irony means you had nothing substantive to say. I would have thought that was obvious.



Really? :eh: That's odd... I could have sworn the web sites I visited were real.. :think:

So tell us... if you want to leave this rotten despicable country for such a wonderful enlightened country like Holland, what's holding you back?

I addressed the point but with irony.......

It's pretty obvious that you have nothing to say so me saying nothing is just perpetuating nothingness, an oral black hole if you will....

Your statement about me going to a wonderful, enlightened country like Holland is an admission of defeat in my eyes...

PS I don't live in "this rotten despicable country", your words, not mine and not my opinion of the US either....

I live in Britain...........

[smyrna]

The screw loosens every day in Bill.

[Samm]

I addressed the point but with irony.......

It's pretty obvious that you have nothing to say so me saying nothing is just perpetuating nothingness, an oral black hole if you will....

Your statement about me going to a wonderful, enlightened country like Holland is an admission of defeat in my eyes...

PS I don't live in "this rotten despicable country", your words, not mine and not my opinion of the US either....

I live in Britain...........

You are right... I owe you an apology. I was engaged with Broseph simultaneously and erroneously attributed his comments about the US being despicable to you.

But you still did not address the point to which you responded first with sarcasm (#40) then faux outrage (#43) and finally with irony (#45)... which was "Since when are prisoners of war considered political prisoners?"

One Reuters reporter does not make for one political prisoner let alone 245. If he was so politically persecuted by Bush I'm sure that Obama would long ago have apologized and invited him and his al Jazeera camera Jockey to the white house for a beer. After all, even "evil" Bush authorized the release of scores of other detainees who were deemed low risk.

[King Cantona]

Since when are prisoners of war considered political prisoners?"


I believe I did respond to that when I said they are not designated prisoners of war, the US has invented a new category to get 'round the Geneva Convention. The Geneva Convention is about the protection of POW's rights so heh we'll just invent a new category, 'Enemy Combatants' and we can do what we want with them...

[Samm]

I believe I did respond to that when I said they are not designated prisoners of war, the US has invented a new category to get 'round the Geneva Convention. The Geneva Convention is about the protection of POW's rights so heh we'll just invent a new category, 'Enemy Combatants' and we can do what we want with them...

OK fine... Since when are enemy combatants considered political prisoners?


And when you have time... read up on what the Geneva Convention has to say about who is a prisoner of war and deserves protection and who is not a prisoner of war and does not deserve protection. Under the Geneva Convention, those "enemy combatants" could be executed.

The enemy combatants at Gitmo are being treated far better than the Geneva protected prisoners of war of any previous war including the German and Japanese prisoners held by the US and England. Every neutral independent group who has inspected that facility says the care there is first class... better than at most criminal prisons. In fact, other than the forced detainment (loss of freedom) the care there is better than is provided the American troops. Other than the loss of freedom (to terrorize and kill) most of those people have never had it so good.

[King Cantona]

OK fine... Since when are enemy combatants considered political prisoners?


And when you have time... read up on what the Geneva Convention has to say about who is a prisoner of war and deserves protection and who is not a prisoner of war and does not deserve protection. Under the Geneva Convention, those "enemy combatants" could be executed.

The enemy combatants at Gitmo are being treated far better than the Geneva protected prisoners of war of any previous war including the German and Japanese prisoners held by the US and England. Every neutral independent group who has inspected that facility says the care there is first class... better than at most criminal prisons. In fact, other than the forced detainment (loss of freedom) the care there is better than is provided the American troops. Other than the loss of freedom (to terrorize and kill) most of those people have never had it so good.

Ah, I see you are happy with a new definition of jurisprudence, guilty until proven innocent, trouble is that the detainees at Gitmo will never be proven guilty or innocent, you need to have a trial for that....

This assertion that everyone at Gitmo is a terrorist is somewhat baffling given that there has been very little evidence produced and yet you still have the absolute belief that the US can do no wrong...

I wish I had that faith in the British government but I bloody don't......

[Samm]

Ah, I see you are happy with a new definition of jurisprudence, guilty until proven innocent, trouble is that the detainees at Gitmo will never be proven guilty or innocent, you need to have a trial for that....

This assertion that everyone at Gitmo is a terrorist is somewhat baffling given that there has been very little evidence produced and yet you still have the absolute belief that the US can do no wrong...

I wish I had that faith in the British government but I bloody don't......

You seem to be confusing acts of war, terrorism and terrorist act with criminal matters. Such terms as jurisprudence and guilt and innocence are not pertinent to terrorism and warfare.

And I never said everyone in Gitmo was a terrorist; a great many of them were simply captured fighting on the side of or supporting a terrorist organization in an armed conflict. But none of those people were picked up "as members of the armed forces of a party to an international conflict, or members of militias or volunteer corps including members of organized resistance movements having a well-defined chain of command, and which is clearly distinguishable (wearing a uniform) from the civilian population..." (Convention I, Art. 13, Sec. 1 and Sec. 2)

By definition, they do not meet the requirements of the Geneva Convention to be worthy of protection by the Convention. And for your information, the GC only provides journalists the same protection as the combatants, which in this case, is none.

But this discussion has gone way too far afield of the OP.

[King Cantona]

But this discussion has gone way too far afield of the OP.

Yes, quite, but as well as the militias and other fighters on the side of the enemy there have also been taxi drivers and suchlike, if you continue to believe that the US is whiter than white and refuse to believe that some people are there by sheer misfortune we have reached an impasse anyway....

[Samm]

Yes, quite, but as well as the militias and other fighters on the side of the enemy there have also been taxi drivers and suchlike, if you continue to believe that the US is whiter than white and refuse to believe that some people are there by sheer misfortune we have reached an impasse anyway....

Didn't your mum ever tell you?

Life is not fair.

[King Cantona]

Didn't your mum ever tell you?

Life is not fair.

My mum told me yesterday actually......

Very wise woman......;).......

[thr3]

I believe I did respond to that when I said they are not designated prisoners of war, the US has invented a new category to get 'round the Geneva Convention. The Geneva Convention is about the protection of POW's rights so heh we'll just invent a new category, 'Enemy Combatants' and we can do what we want with them...

The Geneva Convention was/is designed to regulate the laws of war.

All this about POWS is not about the fundamental function of the Geneva Convention, rather a sub section of it.