Grad Sues College Because She Can't Find A Job

[RTchoke]

I don't think those little pieces of paper come with the sentence "Degree entitles bearer to first class, high paying job". :neutral:


She has given new meaning to a class-action lawsuit.

Trina Thompson gave it the old college try, but couldn't find work. Now she thinks her sheepskin wasn't worth her time, and is suing her alma mater for her money back.

The Monroe College grad wants the $70,000 she spent on tuition because she hasn't found gainful employment since earning her bachelor's degree in April, according to a suit filed in Bronx Supreme Court on July 24.

The 27-year-old alleges the business-oriented Bronx school hasn't lived up to its end of the bargain, and has not done enough to find her a job.

The information-technology student blames Monroe's Office of Career Advancement for not providing her with the leads and career advice it promised.

"They have not tried hard enough to help me," the frustrated Bronx resident wrote about the school in her lawsuit.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08022009/news/regionalnews/sheep_kinned_182607.htm

[Wilhelm Scream]

Isn't 70K a little pricey for a BA?

[BostonPatriot]

I don't think those little pieces of paper come with the sentence "Degree entitles bearer to first class, high paying job". :neutral:



http://www.nypost.com/seven/08022009/news/regionalnews/sheep_kinned_182607.htm Looks like she has found her niche ... professional victim.

[Gabby]

Isn't 70K a little pricey for a BA?

Yep it sure is.

Sounds to me like she went to one of those over priced schools that are designed to take every penny of financial aid and loans a student can get. They give mediocure educations and promise the student that they will find them a job. I could be wrong but that's what it sounds like.

These types of schools are usually rip offs. She actually might have a case.

[malnila]

Yep it sure is.

Sounds to me like she went to one of those over priced schools that are designed to take every penny of financial aid and loans a student can get. They give mediocure educations and promise the student that they will find them a job. I could be wrong but that's what it sounds like.

These types of schools are usually rip offs. She actually might have a case.

A college never guarantees they can find YOU a job. It's up to the person how they use their education and the interview process has quite a bit to do with it too. Seems to me she probably goes into job interviews telling folks how she can do their job better then they can. She's what we call an "entitled student." Plus I think she's forgetting about the economy woes we are in now and how IT people with tons more experience then her are a dime a dozen.

[kirkcudbright]

I don't think those little pieces of paper come with the sentence "Degree entitles bearer to first class, high paying job". :neutral:



http://www.nypost.com/seven/08022009/news/regionalnews/sheep_kinned_182607.htm
I worked for a number of years in adult education. When it comes to successful adult placement reporting, many (if not most) schools lie or at least allow people to make grossly incorrect assumptions about how well graduates can be expected to do. I am not talking about shady places. I am talking specifically about government run schools.

For example, any school you go to will brag of a 95% or higher successful placement rate. That sounds pretty good, but it is not what applicants think it is. The following are some examples of things that are considered successful by the state my school reported to:

Joined the military (doing whatever)
Continued education (often because could not find a job)
Got a job related, in the judgement of the school ("The cash register is computerized. So, it's related to his computer education.")

The reality in my 95%+ school was that a little less than 2/3 of graduates got actual jobs that could be constrewed as somehow related. Also, keep in mind that the people who record whether or not jobs are related are not required to prove the placements occur. They are often subject to pressure from administrators if they report numbers that aren't close to 100%.

"These numbers don't look right. We always have about 98%. Check back through these, and make sure you counted them all correctly. Maybe some of these were related, and you miscategorized them." (repeated until the reporting person gives "correct-looking" numbers)

When the people who do the reporting get together, many tell jokes about some of the things they count as successful.

I think it's crazy for a person to believe a degree will guarantee a job. But, it is also ridiculous for a school to lie about what an applicant should expect. The schools set themselves up for such anger.

In the end, I think we have too many lawsuits, and I hope this one goes away. At the same time, if it results in truthful advertising, it won't bother me too much.

Bottom Line...

If a school tells you it has a 99% placement rate. Figure one third of graduates go on to more school or find completely unrelated work. The remaining two thirds of students get jobs that are reported as related, but some percentage of their jobs require imagination to be construed as related to the education.

[stoked]

I do think people are being sold a bad bill of goods, the college education isn't worth squat these days. The only reason Obama would push higher education is to keep those worthless elite professors working, it won't do us any good. It hasn't been any good (for engineering) since the dot com bust, sorry to say. Innovation went out the window in the 90's.

[malnila]

I do think people are being sold a bad bill of goods, the college education isn't worth squat these days. The only reason Obama would push higher education is to keep those worthless elite professors working, it won't do us any good. It hasn't been any good (for engineering) since the dot com bust, sorry to say. Innovation went out the window in the 90's.

A BA is like a high school diploma was about 20 years ago. You can't get a job without one nowadays. I work for a graduate school of psychology but no way do we claim or report that all our grads get jobs or that we can place them. They know that going in. They also are in touch with the real world as far as how the job market is nowadays. We do have placement offices but that doesn't guarantee a job either. It's a service we provide and DO try to help our grads. It seems that most go into private practice though but then again, that's the nature of the degrees we offer.

[Kegler300]

A sheepskin doesn't entitle anyone to a job. Over the years when I hired someone, a college degree was the last thing I looked for.

[MrShotShot]

Well I work for one of the top schools of architecture in the country. Every single member of the Class of 2008 either had a job in the profession or was going on to graduate school - most had multiple job offers.

So far, ten graduates from the Class of 2009 (class of about 120) has reported having a full-time position. Many will go probably go on to graduate school.

So should the rest "sue" the school?

[janer]

Unfortunately, there are some things school doesn't teach you about finding a job, such as:
1. Ask everyone you know who's hiring, go through all of the job sites daily, be willing to take something outside your field of interest, take a night job or part time job and intern inside your field of interest a day or more a week - a lot of hiring is done by tapping interns first.
2. Go to a temp agency. I know a young lady who got a temp job - they were interviewing for a position and needed a fill-in for that position. They wound up offering her the job. This happened twice. She did not take the job, but did meet someone who introduced her to her current employer.
3. Show up for a job interview with a neat, clean, grammatically correct and spell-checked copy of your resume. You should also be neat, clean and grammatically correct.
4. After every interview, send a hand-written thank you note to the person who interviewed you.
5. Do not start off your career by suing anybody - no future employer wants to hire a litigious employee.

[RogerDodger]

I'm sure companies will be lining up to hire this litigious lady now.

[uncledoom]

I would sue the resume writer....

[angelicmadrigal]

Isn't 70K a little pricey for a BA?

Depends on the school. The one I went to was close to 30K a year, so at 4 years you're talking 120K

[Stardust]

All I can say is that this girl has got a lot to learn about life and personal responsibility. Her background must be pretty peculiar for one to believe that one doesn't have to pound the pavement and do all the work behind getting a good job. (I remember hearing it said that normally for about 100 resumes you send out, you may get one call.) I hope this girl stays in a job once she finds one, also.

[malnila]

All I can say is that this girl has got a lot to learn about life and personal responsibility. Her background must be pretty peculiar for one to believe that one doesn't have to pound the pavement and do all the work behind getting a good job. (I remember hearing it said that normally for about 100 resumes you send out, you may get one call.) I hope this girl stays in a job once she finds one, also.

Naw...don't you realize she's part of that "entitled generation" that feels they should only be paid to look cute and if they bother to show up to work, they should be paid. Heaven forbid they actually DO something to earn that paycheck...:rolleyes: LOL

[Gunslinger]

My wife went to the University of Miami and we spent $100k on her education.

Right now, she's out of work and basically a stay at home wife.

Tough cookies for us and this gal from the bronx is learning that Life isn't fair.

[Wake-Up]

Isn't 70K a little pricey for a BA?

This case is ridiculous of course but 70K for a BA/BS is not out of line today at some public universities when you include all expenses not just tuition.

To bad the university did not teach "Real Life 101".

My youngest, and last to finish college is at a major, state university and our costs for all related expenses to attending the university is 17K a year by the time she'll graduate in 2010.

2 years in university housing and 2 years sharing rent in a duplex and don't forget most tuitions increase in your Junior year as well.

If you have kids and are planning on paying for tuition, start saving, it won't be getting any less expensive. I went to college, well just say a long time ago and tuition was $15 a credit hour. $350 a credit hour is not uncommon now. For a full time load (15 credits per semester) thats $10,500 per year in tuition alone. Toss in fee's, room and board, books etc and it runs up very fast.

[Alaric]

If she is suing for a refund on the product, then she should also be forced to return the product, in other words, she forfeits her degree and may make no claim to the education on any future job applications. When she answers job interview questions about what she has been doing the last four years she should have to to answer "nuttin'" in her best un-idgumacated accent.

[Clamp]

Yep it sure is.

Sounds to me like she went to one of those over priced schools that are designed to take every penny of financial aid and loans a student can get. They give mediocre educations and promise the student that they will find them a job. I could be wrong but that's what it sounds like.

These types of schools are usually rip offs. She actually might have a case.

For some reason, DeVry, ITT and Lincoln Tech come to mind. Don't quote me on this, but I seem to see more commercials from them when theres an economic downturn. Almost like they're trying to reel in the financial aid students...

Also, and if anyone went to any of the above, I apologize in advance, but it reminds of the Family Guy episode where the 2 steel workers were sitting on a girder, and the one says, "hey, my son got into DeVry"...and the other one says, "what'd he have to do, open the door?". They aren't very in depth educations...

I've always recommended that you should persue classes that will emphasise what you already enjoy doing to hone your skills. Don't go to school because theres a potential payoff from the degree you may get.

[Gabby]

For some reason, DeVry, ITT and Lincoln Tech come to mind. Don't quote me on this, but I seem to see more commercials from them when theres an economic downturn. Almost like they're trying to reel in the financial aid students...

Also, and if anyone went to any of the above, I apologize in advance, but it reminds of the Family Guy episode where the 2 steel workers were sitting on a girder, and the one says, "hey, my son got into DeVry"...and the other one says, "what'd he have to do, open the door?". They aren't very in depth educations...

I've always recommended that you should persue classes that will emphasise what you already enjoy doing to hone your skills. Don't go to school because theres a potential payoff from the degree you may get.


Yep, those are some of the ones I was thinking of.

This young lady went to Monroe College. The tuition and fees are about $6000 a semester for 12-18 hours. That's does not include room, board, books, etc.

In state tuition for the University of New Mexico, where I graduated and where my children go is about $2,300.

[sgdp]

For some reason, DeVry, ITT and Lincoln Tech come to mind. Don't quote me on this, but I seem to see more commercials from them when theres an economic downturn. Almost like they're trying to reel in the financial aid students...

Also, and if anyone went to any of the above, I apologize in advance, but it reminds of the Family Guy episode where the 2 steel workers were sitting on a girder, and the one says, "hey, my son got into DeVry"...and the other one says, "what'd he have to do, open the door?". They aren't very in depth educations...

I've always recommended that you should persue classes that will emphasise what you already enjoy doing to hone your skills. Don't go to school because theres a potential payoff from the degree you may get.


:)) :)) I love that line from FG.

I went to a school for two semesters that ended up being a total scam. Well, thing is, the school had just been bought by a corporation known for scams. The school itself was still employing talented and caring professors, but the admin became vultures.

Thus began the downfall of one of the most respected educational institutions of the field. :(

[CaptainPike]

There are some schools that have to place a certain percentage of their graduates or else they lose accreditation.

It may not apply in this case, but there are technical schools in Kansas that will lose accreditation if placement falls below 70%. If someone were looking to throw some dirt into the faces of those schools, someone could investigate the placement practices and expose what the school considers to be "job placement".

[ThrowCop]

I would never hire such a whiny little victim...

[jeepers]

http://www.darden.virginia.edu/html/deansblog.aspx?id=19522&blogid=198

academic credentials won’t guarantee an outcome. What you ultimately get is what you make of it.

Found this when I was looking for the Twain quote 'the world doesn't owe you a living, it was here first".

Suing a school because your degree didn't guarantee you a job is ludicrous. Whether it's Ivy League where you dump massive quantities of cash into tuition, or a relatively cheap technical school.

School is to provide education: information and experience. What you do with it and what happens next has to do with what you are willing to do, and what the current employment climate it.

If you aren't willing to hoof it and the climate stinks, you're not going to do anything with it.

It's like this woman-child thinks that she was going to just blithely walk into a position and feels ripped off because she didn't. Did she think that her work was done? That she wasn't goign to have to work at getting employed? That she wouldn't have to compete? That she didn't have to sweat it? That somehow, she was 'done'?

It's not about entitlement to me, I think that it's about massive naivete. I don't care ifa school sells you, you still have to ask yourself 'is what they're selling, real?' If you don't get that stuff from the school, are you getting that from your parents? Family? Friends? If not, what are you getting?

I've always thought that graduating from anything means that you are now a freshman again. Finish 8th grade, you're in high school. You are brand new, everyone else above you is seasoned, you're not. Finally make it to senior, you're on the top of the heap! woohoo! Then you graduate, and you're a freshman in college, starting at the bottom. Graduate...

You're a freshman, again. Starting at the bottom, learning the ropes, learning what it takes, having a goal, working it. Only this time, there is no counselor standing there saying 'do this, do that'. A freshman in life.

I would tell her that it's moronic to sue her school. Waste your time and money in court, having a stupid focus. Instead, she should be using her time to figure out what it is that employers want and either obtaining it, or striving for it. She might have to get more education. She might have to take an entry level intern position. She might even have to move out of state where there is more opportunity for her field...

That it's not going to always look like her picture. It's not going to automatically be easy with a clear path. That how you deal with these situations in life, is half of the battle. And you always ask yourself the question, am I willing to do what it takes to succeed?

If not, just pack it in and call it a day. Because she's only just begun, she hasn't reached the end point. If you're already quitting on your efforts at 22, yoiu're not going to get very far.

Sometimes we literally are victims of life, and sometimes we are our own worst enemy.

[janer]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07312009/news/regionalnews/manhattan/diploma_mill_scammer_sentenced_to_prison_182376.ht m

[Vaard]

A sheepskin doesn't entitle anyone to a job. Over the years when I hired someone, a college degree was the last thing I looked for.

they are pretty important in the accounting and medical professions.......

[angelicmadrigal]

they are pretty important in the accounting and medical professions.......

Or you know, any other profession that requires a specific certification or liscence.

[DLaw911]

The woman is a nut.
Her lawyer equally nutty for taking such a frivilous case. This is beyond vexatious.
Next thing you knows young adults will be suing their little league coaches because they did not make the major leagues.

[Talk2Bill]

if she wins she will lose her degree. the school should agree and return all her tuition and retract her degree.

[Talk2Bill]

Or you know, any other profession that requires a specific certification or liscence.

i think he meant how doctors display their degrees. I am not sure but they may be required to.

[angelicmadrigal]

i think he meant how doctors display their degrees. I am not sure but they may be required to.

I'd rather they did. I'd like to know where my Dr. graduated from.

[angelicmadrigal]

The woman is a nut.
Her lawyer equally nutty for taking such a frivilous case. This is beyond vexatious.
Next thing you knows young adults will be suing their little league coaches because they did not make the major leagues.

Just a thought, can lawyers get in trouble for being involved in frivolous lawsuits?

[DLaw911]

Just a thought, can lawyers get in trouble for being involved in frivolous lawsuits?There is a difference between zealous advocacy and unethical behavior. Frankly I have never seen a lawyer disbarred for filing frivilous or meritless lawsuits, but I'm not saying it does not happen. Certainly if a lawyer suborns perjury by promoting a lawsuit knowing it is purely vexatious, he can and should face discipline including disbarment. Of cours that's not easy to prove unless the cops do a sting.

[DLaw911]

i think he meant how doctors display their degrees. I am not sure but they may be required to.They are only required to display their license. Many display their degrees, especially if they have specilizations.

[angelicmadrigal]

There is a difference between zealous advocacy and unethical behavior. Frankly I have never seen a lawyer disbarred for filing frivilous or meritless lawsuits, but I'm not saying it does not happen. Certainly if a lawyer suborns perjury by promoting a lawsuit knowing it is purely vexatious, he can and should face discipline including disbarment. Of cours that's not easy to prove unless the cops do a sting.

Ah. Well, I guses they haven't gotten to people making a habit of it or else they'd probably make a rule about it.

[DLaw911]

Ah. Well, I guses they haven't gotten to people making a habit of it or else they'd probably make a rule about it.Courts have the power to sanction attorneys with fines and costs. I can't stand personal injury practice. Some lawyers have high priced ads on TV and radio. You would think they would take any deadbeat who walked into their office. But in fact they are very selective. I am familiar with the practices of several of these firms that advertise big time. First the prospective client fills out a long, detailed questionaire. Then it is checked over for completeness by an office assistant. They the client meets with a paralegal and they go over the prospective client's version of what happened. At that point the paralegal makes the judgement whether or not the prospective client is honest and whether or not the claim is worth pursuing. Only when the paralegal says so does the prospective client get to meet with an attorney in the office.

The problem is usually with small firm or solo practice attorneys, many of whom do not have legal office assistants or paralegals and who depend of secretaries with no legal background. They are the first ones to take "dog" cases and then try to dump them later when facts are learned such as the client is a liar, the other party is judgment proof or broke, or the case cannot be proven.

[akarra]

I gotta say - I think the lawsuit is utterly frivolous, and I don't think very highly of the person making it. How many other people get degrees, have work experience, can't find jobs and still keep trying?

However: I do hope she wins. The only thing with more of a sense of "entitlement" than everyone in America today is the education racket. It's no surprise to me that Forbes just ranked West Point the best school in America because their graduates don't have debt and get jobs.