Illegals in schools

[Silkworm19]

Just like healthcare, it is a shame that we have no way to track illegals in our public school system. My belief is that it would show overwheming evidence of how much of a drain they are on the taxpayers. Supporters of these people would be outraged at the bias, heh heh. I have a theory that the dropout rate is skewed dramatically because of the large number of illegals (think about LA, Chicago and Miami). There is no incentive to do well in school if you are illegal without a Social Security card. They simply show up for free breakfast and lunch courtesy of the taxpayers without a care in the world about learning to read or write. Their parents can't come out of hiding to get involved in school, which rubs off onto the children. I pray for the day when public education is eliminated, turning it over to the private sector who will admit only legal citizens into their schools. Sounds to good to be true right?

[RickRhetoric]

Thousands of them are "legal," at least for the school day anyway. Every morning, along the Texas border with Mexico, hundreds of U.S. public school buses begin lining up to cross the Rio Grande into Mexican towns to pick up thousands of Mexican school children and transport them back across the border to attend Texas public schools in Brownsville, McAllen and other U.S border towns . At the end of the school day, they are bused back to their neighborhoods in Mexico.

Most of these Mexican children are of more affluent parents who have alleged ties to relatives, commercial and diplomatic interests in America.

In the interest of fostering diversity and multiculturalism, the program serves an excellent and grandiose purpose -- if America doesn't have enough illegals, it can always go and fetch some from Mexico.

[RWReaganfan]

I pray for the day when public education is eliminated, turning it over to the private sector who will admit only legal citizens into their schools. Sounds to good to be true right?

Keep praying. It is not going to happen!

[angelicmadrigal]

Thousands of them are "legal," at least for the school day anyway. Every morning, along the Texas border with Mexico, hundreds of U.S. public school buses begin lining up to cross the Rio Grande into Mexican towns to pick up thousands of Mexican school children and transport them back across the border to attend Texas public schools in Brownsville, McAllen and other U.S border towns . At the end of the school day, they are bused back to their neighborhoods in Mexico.

Most of these Mexican children are of more affluent parents who have alleged ties to relatives, commercial and diplomatic interests in America.



::shrugs:: my step grandmother used to WALK across the boarder everyday to go to school in TX. However, her parents were American citizens and so was she, but the father moved the family back to Mexico at one point.

[woa_trouble]

Just like healthcare, it is a shame that we have no way to track illegals in our public school system.

Registering for public schools typically requires the parent or guardian to produce a birth certificate, residency proof, immunization records etc. Its quiet a bit different than just showing up in the ER.

[mgifford]

Registering for public schools typically requires the parent or guardian to produce a birth certificate, residency proof, immunization records etc. Its quiet a bit different than just showing up in the ER.

Did you dream that?

[pubschteacher]

Registering for public schools typically requires the parent or guardian to produce a birth certificate, residency proof, immunization records etc. Its quiet a bit different than just showing up in the ER.


In Colorado, you are not allowed to come to school without a full immunization record. You do have to prove that you are resident of the area which the school district serves. The only time that a birth certificate is required is when you register a kindergartener.

[sandgal]

Thousands of them are "legal," at least for the school day anyway. Every morning, along the Texas border with Mexico, hundreds of U.S. public school buses begin lining up to cross the Rio Grande into Mexican towns to pick up thousands of Mexican school children and transport them back across the border to attend Texas public schools in Brownsville, McAllen and other U.S border towns . At the end of the school day, they are bused back to their neighborhoods in Mexico.

Most of these Mexican children are of more affluent parents who have alleged ties to relatives, commercial and diplomatic interests in America.

In the interest of fostering diversity and multiculturalism, the program serves an excellent and grandiose purpose -- if America doesn't have enough illegals, it can always go and fetch some from Mexico.

I grew up on the border of TX and Mexico. Wealthy parents in Mexico paid tuition to the Texas school district, so their children could attend on this side of the border.

[jimjames418]

You clearly have not dealt with the bureaucracy that is the school systems. Either that or you are willfully ignorant.

And as per silkworm's OP: Privately operated school systems would have no reason not to admit illegals. Public schools have incentive to regulate admissions, but in the private sector anyone able to afford such a school would be admited. Unless *gasp* some sort of regulation were in place...

Short story: schools are not businesses and shouldn't be treated as such. Thats common sense.
In a whole lot of school districts in the rural areas of this country, the school district is the largest employer in the area. If not the largest, at least in the top five. ;)

And any organization that has a budget of more than $10 million should operate as if they were in fact a business. My local school district which has 1,000 students has a yearly budget of $10 million.

And when you are spending that kind of money, if you are not operating as a business, you are wasting taxpayer money.

[woa_trouble]

In a whole lot of school districts in the rural areas of this country, the school district is the largest employer in the area. If not the largest, at least in the top five. ;)

And any organization that has a budget of more than $10 million should operate as if they were in fact a business. My local school district which has 1,000 students has a yearly budget of $10 million.

And when you are spending that kind of money, if you are not operating as a business, you are wasting taxpayer money.

I disagree. I'm not saying throw your brain out the window when it comes to fiscal responsibility in the schools; but philosophically, schools aren't businesses. There is no revenue from these institutes aside from some public good. Quantifying that good is a ****ty job, and it does seem these days that the taxpayer is being letdown- but not in the sense that "the schools aren't working!". Thats such a trite and unhelpful sentiment it barely needs repeating.

What makes sense in education reform is either an overhaul of the services that schools provide, or a remapping of how school districts allocate tax funds. It seems to me many, (and especially poorer districts) take on alot of social service roles: feeding, nannying, extracurricular after hours, even health care. They are under-equipped and under staffed to do so, and yet this seems to be the new trend.

There is no reason the US cannot be the best in this field. And for the bigoted OP- individuals who grow up in American institutes are American. This is a good thing. Throwing a police state or a half-assed free market argument at the problem will do no good at the end of the day.

[E7ALR]

Did you dream that?It is a requirement here in Texas. I just enrolled my 5 year old and had to provide a valid copy of his birth certificate as part of registration.

[jimjames418]

I disagree. I'm not saying throw your brain out the window when it comes to fiscal responsibility in the schools; but philosophically, schools aren't businesses. There is no revenue from these institutes aside from some public good. Quantifying that good is a ****ty job, and it does seem these days that the taxpayer is being letdown- but not in the sense that "the schools aren't working!". Thats such a trite and unhelpful sentiment it barely needs repeating.

What makes sense in education reform is either an overhaul of the services that schools provide, or a remapping of how school districts allocate tax funds. It seems to me many, (and especially poorer districts) take on alot of social service roles: feeding, nannying, extracurricular after hours, even health care. They are under-equipped and under staffed to do so, and yet this seems to be the new trend.

There is no reason the US cannot be the best in this field. And for the bigoted OP- individuals who grow up in American institutes are American. This is a good thing. Throwing a police state or a half-assed free market argument at the problem will do no good at the end of the day.
What you just outlined is how a "good business plan" would operate. The problem with school districts today, I know, I was a business manager in a school district for over 20 years, is that they have no business sense of what it takes to operate. They go more on the "I want it, so therefore I get it" type of thinking.

The people drawing up the budgets and allocating the money know had to teach, but they don't have the fainest idea about how money operates. In this state, Michigan, since 1988 to be a school district business manager you must have a teaching certificate, but you are not required to have any education or experience in running a business organization. And that my friend is a stupid way to operate an organization that is spending the kind of money that school districts spend.

The smallest district has a budget of over $3 million. And Detroit I don't know their budget figures (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/apr2009/dets-a03.shtml), however this fiscal year they are running a deficit of over $300 million. That my friend is what happens when you turn someone loose who has no idea on how to control the money they have power over.

[MrShotShot]

It is a requirement here in Texas. I just enrolled my 5 year old and had to provide a valid copy of his birth certificate as part of registration.

A "clean" birth certificate can probably be bought for less than $50 on the side of the road in Brownsville.

Having a piece of paper is about as much of a barrier to illegals as, well, paper.

[chip]

It is a requirement here in Texas. I just enrolled my 5 year old and had to provide a valid copy of his birth certificate as part of registration.

Guess what?

You can move next year and not have to provide it at the new school.

[George S]

Guess what?

Concerns about educating those claimed to be ineligible because of non-citizenship could be dealt with very easily.

Make everyone pay for their own education. Period.

Parents who have worked hard to provide their children with advantage will be willing to pay for their children's education.

There would be an incentive to earn sufficient wherewithal to do the best for their children. And, yes, the children of those unwilling to acquire wherewithal will lose out. Those whose parents do not value education picked the wrong parents. Such is life. Other children suffer in many ways at the hands of their parents. Education is not special in this regard.

Education, housing and food and medical care all need to be paid for. Either by the collective or by the individual.

Are we socialist or individualist?

[EnchantedFrog]

In my state, there are hard economic times. Businesses are laying off and closing down. Prices for food and fuel are going up.

Yet they spend an estimated $500 MILLION per year in the education of children of illegals.

[rich7837]

The money we spend for illegals' children in our school is only a small part of the problem. We spend a much greater amount for those families' rent, food, police actions, electric bills, phones, clothing, and most of all free maternity care and emergency room expense.

Our beloved President, The Anointed One, doesnt give a rats $@# whether the rest of us do without, because he wants his illegal constituents to vote for him. That guarantees dumbells with no education or documentation voting Democrat for the next 40 years.

It would have been cheaper to give illegals a healthy supply of birth control pills and cable TV. At least then they would have something to do with their time besides reproduce!!

[chem_fem]

Guess what?

Concerns about educating those claimed to be ineligible because of non-citizenship could be dealt with very easily.

Make everyone pay for their own education. Period.

Parents who have worked hard to provide their children with advantage will be willing to pay for their children's education.

There would be an incentive to earn sufficient wherewithal to do the best for their children. And, yes, the children of those unwilling to acquire wherewithal will lose out. Those whose parents do not value education picked the wrong parents. Such is life. Other children suffer in many ways at the hands of their parents. Education is not special in this regard.

Education, housing and food and medical care all need to be paid for. Either by the collective or by the individual.

Are we socialist or individualist?

What if you have hardworking parents who just aren't able to provide a good education for their children? Why should the children have to suffer, and receive a sub-standard education, simply because their parents would have to choose between feeding the family and sending their children to school.

As much as we would like to think we do, we don't live in a society where hard work is all you need to get by. You can't just get by on working hard and wanting to succeed; you need opportunities and those are a lot harder to come by than we want to believe they are. To simply say that people who are willing to work hard will succeed is really impractical.

[George S]

What if you have hardworking parents who just aren't able to provide a good education for their children? Why should the children have to suffer, and receive a sub-standard education, simply because their parents would have to choose between feeding the family and sending their children to school.

As much as we would like to think we do, we don't live in a society where hard work is all you need to get by. You can't just get by on working hard and wanting to succeed; you need opportunities and those are a lot harder to come by than we want to believe they are. To simply say that people who are willing to work hard will succeed is really impractical.It is rarely the case that hardworking parents "just aren't able to provide good education for their children." It is the case that nonworking parents "just can't provide the wherewithal for their children to get a good education." Nor much else, actually. That is the problem.

It is not true that just because it would be nice if everyone could afford medical school and law school and M.I.T. that that education should be free.

Nor, in my opinion, should High School be free. (A diploma is meaningless today as virtually everyone has one.)

It would be nice if ...

And yet, somehow, we are uneducated compared to other developed countries.

[Getty Girl]

25% of the students in california schools cannot speak english.

[George S]

25% of the students in california schools cannot speak english.If you take out the illegals, what is the number?

[Clintville]

Did you dream that?
Actually, he is right. At least in the case of my school.

[Clintville]

25% of the students in california schools cannot speak english.
Where did you find this? Because I don't think that is correct.

[page017]

Where did you find this? Because I don't think that is correct.

This article says that Los Angeles is 38% non english speaking http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08133/881136-298.stm

Unfortunately, I feel it's already too late, as mant of the non english speakers were born here, or have had kids here. It's enough that even if we were to expell illegals, that we would still have to work with. The only solution would be to make English the official language, and make knowing English a requirement to be taught on the public dime.

[page017]

Here's another good article. http://www.edutopia.org/lost-translation

Currently non english speakers are about 10% of the school population. By 2030, it will be 40%!

[prof8]

"The Spanish-speaking population in the United States [of America] soared between 1910 and 1930 as over 1M Mexicanos migrated northward. Pushed by the economic and political chaos generated by the Mexican Revolution and lured by jobs in US agribusiness and industry, they settled into existing barrios and forged new communities both in the Southwest and the Midwest, in small towns and cities. For example, in 1900 only 3K to 5K Mexicans lived in Los Angeles, but by 1930 approximaely 150K persons of Mexican birth or heritage had settled into the city's expanding barrios." --- Vicki L. Ruiz (quoted from David G. Gutierrez 1993 _Between Two Worlds_; quoted in Jon Gjerde 1998 "Changes Between Daughters and Parents in the Mexican American Family" _Major Problems in American Immigration and Ethnic History_ pg 262)

[prof8]

What if you have hardworking parents who just aren't able to provide a good education for their children? Why should the children have to suffer, and receive a sub-standard education, simply because their parents would have to choose between feeding the family and sending their children to school.

Because, as you said, their parents aren't able to provide a good education for their children, and the extortion- and redistribution-crazy leftists have nearly elminated charity schools, and instituted hyper-credentialism.

Back in the day when legislators more or less kept their oaths of office, people who made a little money would leave bequests that each would fund the schools of one or two counties for half a century. Now, those schools did not have the latest tech, did not have special certified bilingual teachers and speech therapists and other-abled specialists and rules against dodge-ball or against children parking their rifles by coat pegs. But they did have quite a few students for whom English was a second language.

Oh, the teachers may have been barely out of high school themselves, or college students, but the students who were the least bit able learned English and Latin and Greek, and sometimes Hebrew, and math and philosophy and civics and a bit of science. And all were required to "apply themselves", to put forth some effort under pressure to learn the material, to get it right, to excell.

At one time, about the best college in PA was the "log college", named for its facility, a single log cabin. Princeton is one out-growth from it, as was the Pequea academy and graduate school of theology, and several other more familiar universities.

If you cannot afford something, then you cannot afford it. That's no excuse to turn to extortion, to take the earnings of others. Do what you can afford. It's perfectly OK to ask for donations.

[prof8]

And yet, somehow, we are uneducated compared to other developed countries.

"I've mentioned the TIMSS test, for instance, which showed that if Colorado, Connecticut, Iowa and 10 other states -- none of which has a substantial under-class -- had been treated as separate nations, each of them would have been out-scored only by Singapore (profesor David Berliner, 'Our Schools Versus Theirs', Washington Post, 2001 January 28)...
This [both the TIMSS and PISA tests] once again shows, tragically, that the U.S.A. is not doing enough to bring up the educational performance of its under-class.
But if one takes the white score as 'main-stream', the U.S.A. would rank 7th out of 27, instead of 18th."
http://www.kermitrose.com/econ200603.html#20060317

[donesprague]

Just like healthcare,

SNIP,

turning it over to the private sector who will admit only legal citizens into their schools. Sounds to good to be true right?


When you leave anything to the private sector you will find that they will provide service to those who will pay. If there is honest competition you will see higher quality results for a lower price. That is until the government says the business must give it to some and charge others to make up the loss.

That applies to everthing including farming and cell phones and education and health care.

[blackmesa741]

This article says that Los Angeles is 38% non english speaking http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08133/881136-298.stm

Unfortunately, I feel it's already too late, as mant of the non english speakers were born here, or have had kids here. It's enough that even if we were to expell illegals, that we would still have to work with. The only solution would be to make English the official language, and make knowing English a requirement to be taught on the public dime.

You speak as though a person whose mother tongue is not English is somehow a detriment. Do you believe that? I would guess that we, as a country, could only stand to gain by becoming multi-lingual.

[blackmesa741]

25% of the students in california schools cannot speak english.

So what? That does not speak to legal resident status. I'm in a border area that has ALWAYS had native Spanish speakers as the majority. And they are overwhelmingly USA citizens.